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The “fire hose” of all podcasts produced by The Heartland Institute, a national free-market think tank.
This is the Heartland Daily Podcast. The other day, the Heartland Institute's Chris Talgo, editorial director and research fellow at our Socialism Research Center, was a guest on Unleashed with Mark Marano on TNT Radio. Chris was on the show to talk about how regular election laws designed to make it secure were all thrown out for the 2020 election. Chris talked about the poll the Hartland Institute and Rasmussen reports released late last year in which 1 in 5 Americans who mailed in their ballots admitted to at least one form of illegal voting. We have to make sure election integrity is paramount in the 2024 election, not let cheating and illegal balloting happen to the level that it happened in 2020.
Jim Lakely:Have a listen.
Announcer:Without c o 2, the world stops breathing. C 02 sustains all life on earth. Government, the WEF, and the elite believe humans are the carbon they really wanna be rid of. Today's news talk, TNT Radio.
Marc Morano:Welcome back to Unleashed on TNT with Mark Marrano. Alright, well joining us now is Christopher Talgo, the editorial director and socialism research fellow. He's a managing editor for stopping socialism.com, a well, very needed, resource and publication in today's world of 2024. Welcome to the program, Chris.
Chris Talgo:And thanks for being here, Mark.
Marc Morano:Alright, let's, you know, let's talk about elections. Joe Biden, according to the narrative, got more votes than any other president in US history in 2,020. And beat Donald Trump in key swing states, and the election was fair, there was no problems, and anyone who says otherwise is an election denier, who's guilty of misinformation, disinformation, and therefore should be censored. How much of how much of that official narrative is wrong? Let's start.
Marc Morano:What what exactly happened with the 2020 election, and was it part of a long trend, or was it some kind of big rapid acceleration that a lot of changes occurred, you know, because of COVID that happened? They never could have got away with this, say, 2016, 2012. So lay out the case. What happened in our election in 2020? Who won the election?
Marc Morano:Donald Trump or Joe Biden in your view?
Chris Talgo:Well, I think it was much more the latter. So what happened in 2020, has never happened before. Under the guise of the pandemic, we had, governors, we had secretaries of state go and change the election rules, which is unconstitutional because only state legislatures can do that. So they did that under the guise of the pandemic. And then what happened was they sent out mail in ballots across the board to almost every point on their election roll.
Chris Talgo:If they didn't send them a ballot, they sent them a request for a ballot, which is basically the same thing. So what we had happened in 2020 was, 65,000,000 people vote by mail. That was more than double the amount of people who voted by mail in 2016. But like you were alluding to earlier, this has been part of a trend. In 1992, for example, 91% of Americans voted in person on Election Day.
Chris Talgo:By 2020, that had decreased to 30%. 70% of people voted well before Election Day because now you can vote 6 weeks before Election Day in several states, or they voted by mail. So what we're, you know, what we're trying to do is we're trying to make sure that states, solve this problem in anticipation of the 2024 elections upcoming. But what also happened in 2020 was you had this flooding of the zone with mail in ballots. States also went and intentionally did away with a lot of the common sense guardrails, such as, signature verification or, you know, presenting a photo ID and all that kind of stuff.
Chris Talgo:So they made it so they made they made it so much easier to cheat. Now what we found in our poll, we, we conducted a poll with Rasmussen Reports in, December of 2023. We asked a 1,085 voters, did you vote in 2020 election? Yes or no? And then did you vote by mail?
Chris Talgo:Yes or no? Among those who voted by mail, we found that 28.2%, more than 1 in 4, admitted to committing at least one type of election fraud. So that could have been something like, well, you know, I lived I didn't live in the state in which, you know, I'm a permanent resident, but I voted anyways. I filled out a ballot for someone else. I signed someone else's ballot.
Chris Talgo:Even 8% to a admitted, which just blows my mind, 8% admitted that they received a bribe in return for their vote. So what we did was we then said, wow, this is, you know, pretty stunning stuff. 28% of female male voters, you know, cast a ballot legally. Wonder if that would have impacted the results of the 2020 election. So what we did was we took the state, data that was available to us, for the mail in votes.
Chris Talgo:And in some states, like Arizona, for example, it was 90% of people voted by mail, which, again, is just mind boggling to me. And we, then we, you know, we extrapolated the data from the breast mucin survey. And what we tried to do was we tried to determine if you were to eliminate the mail in ballots that were cast fraudulently, whether that was 28% of them all the way down to 1% of them, what would have happened in the 2020 election? Under almost every single scenario that we did, that we, you know, performed, Donald Trump would have won the 2020 election. Because in those 6 swing states, those 6 crucial swing states, Joe Biden won each of them by less than 20,000 votes.
Marc Morano:Wow. So if you look historically, the argument will be, well, we've always had mail in votes, military members. What's wrong with a mail in vote? I mean, don't you trust people in the country to vote correctly? Or what's the problem with the mail in vote?
Marc Morano:Tell us why that's such a big deal overall.
Chris Talgo:Okay. So the the the biggest problem with mail in voting is that they send the ballots or they send the absentee requests for a ballot based on outdated, notoriously inaccurate voter rolls. So as we saw in the 2020 election, states do not clean their voter rolls on an annual basis or even semiannual basis, even every 10 years or so. So whoever's on the voting roll, whether they're dead, whether they've moved, whether they're no longer eligible to vote, whatever their circumstances, they're getting either a ballot sent to that, address or they're getting a request for a ballot. Now that's a big major, major, major problem because in several states, there are tens of thousands of people who should not be on that voter roll anymore.
Chris Talgo:We'll never know what happened to those tens of millions of ballots that were sent to those people across the country and what happened to them in 2020, which means that whoever lived at that, address that the person no longer lives at, they could have just filled out their ballot, thrown it in the mail, and there you go. There's a, you know, bow cast. So it's it's very difficult to prove after the fact. But, you know, what we're really interested in doing is making sure that it does not happen again in 2024.
Marc Morano:Alright. Well, let's do so a balance of that. Now, obviously, each state election law is different because here in the United States, you know, it's not like a federal standard that all the states have to comply with. Right? They can pretty much do whatever they want.
Marc Morano:Is there is there any limit on that? Is the Supreme Court ruled? Are there any federal guidelines? Like, can a state just say, you know, we're gonna have people click a mouse and vote, or they can send a text on their phone? Is there any limit that the federal government wouldn't accept for voting for federal office?
Chris Talgo:Well, what what what happened in 2020 in particular is that the Supreme Court of the United States and the state supreme courts, they they refused to to rule on these because they were under the assumption that, hey, it's a pandemic. Emergency declarations were in place. As you know, almost every state governor declared some sort of, you know, emergency in light of the pandemic. And in light of those emergency, declarations, they were allowed to to go above and beyond, what they ordinarily would be able to do. However, it still doesn't matter because this constitution specifically designates that only state legislatures can, conduct or make rules on how elections should be conducted.
Chris Talgo:So, you know, to answer your question, yeah, we do have a smorgasbord across the nation of different, you know, voting rules by, you know, each each state. Some are much more lax than others. You know, California, they love ballot harvesting. They love ballot stuffing. They send everyone, every single person on their rolls, a ballot versus other states, like Georgia and Florida, for example, where they don't do that anymore.
Chris Talgo:So, yeah, there's definitely a spectrum there. But what happened in 2020 is even those states that you would have thought, whether it's Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, that would have had, you know, decent, met, you know, methods in place, all of them were eliminated. So it was just like anything goes in 2020.
Marc Morano:Well, then the question is when these states and again, the state laws are all different. How do they verify a mail in ballot? Is there a policy procedure they're failing to do, or is this the very idea unverifiable? Like, if, you know, if they're getting all these ballots, isn't there someone to go through and say, okay, no, this person died. This person left the state.
Marc Morano:They're no longer eligible. Is there what toward especially in the 6 states, what sort of voter verification for the mail in ballots existed or were supposed to exist?
Chris Talgo:So, one of the one of the best, things that they can do is do a, signature verification. However, they did away with that. Like you said, you know, there are a bunch of other guardrails in place, whether it's, you know, making sure that the person is eligible to vote after the fact or whatever. But these were all just done away with willy nilly. So they made it they made it basically an invitation to fill out illegal mail in ballots.
Chris Talgo:You know? And there's also a, you know, bunch of, anecdotal stories, in the months leading up where ballots were found, like, just bags of ballots found in ditches or just all over the place. I live in a, you know, pretty big apartment complex in the Chicagoland area. And in 2020, in the months in the weeks leading up to the election, because Illinois is one of those states that did send out a ballot to every single person on their voter rolls, there were several ballots just sitting around in our in our mail room on the counter because no one knew, hey, this person doesn't live here. And and, you know, that happened on a massive level across the country.
Marc Morano:Well, so was there there was a I don't know the year, but it was maybe 2,005 or something. Wasn't there a presidential commission with James Baker, and I wanna say Jimmy Carter, who advised against mail in balloting in the first place? Do you have any information on that commission? I think it was maybe 15 years before, about 2,005 or
Chris Talgo:so. You are spot on. 2005, former president, Jimmy Carter and former secretary of state James Baker, produced a report, which we cite, throughout our policy study, which said that there's ample evidence to prove that voting voting by mail is much more prone to fraud. There are so many reasons why, and they said, you know, we should we should try to minimize this as much as possible. Obviously, there are exceptions, you know, people who are disabled, like you said, people who are serving overseas, people who might be living abroad.
Chris Talgo:But, you know, what's happened since 2005 in particular is the notion that you have to have an excuse to vote by mail has been just completely done away with. And it's all about convenience, convenience, convenience. That's how they wanna make it, you know, appear to be. But as we know, yes, the convenience also means that it's much more, easy to commit voter fraud.
Marc Morano:Now at the time, you know, and I wanna get into the COVID restrictions play after the break, but at the time, there was a lot of focus on the voting machines. And I think, you know, initially, you know, in terms of, like, guess, from the Trump campaign, all we heard about was the voting machines, the irregularities, the software, the lack of security. And did that all not pan out as anything to be concerned about, or was it overblown and the real issue was mail in, or is the mail in related somehow to the, electronic voting machines? How do you what's your stand on that and your investigation look into that at all?
Chris Talgo:We didn't really focus on the, the voting machines. But, you know, what what our research showed is that, paper ballots are by far and away the best possible way to make sure that the vote is accurate. You know, those voting machines, you know, they they there's been lots of stories of them, double counting votes and, you know, changing votes and all that kind of stuff. Once again, I can't, you know, confirm that or not. But what what, you know, what we are recommending is that everyone votes using a paper ballot because those have a you know, those you can count after the fact and you can, confirm and verify, the the the voting machines.
Chris Talgo:You know, that's that's something that you cannot, you know, trust.
Marc Morano:Well, we saw you know, the the old expression is that voting, counting votes is more of an art than a science. Right? So you go back to Florida, 20, 2000 with Bush and you had the hanging chads, and they were going through with all the voters, and the people they claimed, accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan, which would have been a margin in some county. Anyway, so the question really is then, when you have these mail in ballots, these 6 states, let's focus on those. A couple of questions.
Marc Morano:Are the ballots still around? Number 1. Number 2, is it possible that even today, someone could gather up all of these ballots, and actually try to trace them or find out, or are the ballots actually blank? In other words, are there is there a name associated to the mail in ballots when they get them, or is it just a official ballot with an anonymous vote on it, and on these 6 states in particular? And is there a way ever to truly audit that and recount the election with someone going through and saying this person's dead, this person doesn't live here, this person's not eligible, this person doesn't exist?
Marc Morano:Is there any hope for that, or are these mail in ballots thrown away, like, 24 hours after election day or incinerated or something?
Chris Talgo:So it's a combination of those things. Some of the states have have a ballot with with no one's name on it, and they discard the envelope immediately after fact. So once the envelope's gone, you don't know who the who the person was. Arizona, for example, they perform multiple audits audits after the 2020 election. And, you know, reports came out that, ballots were missing, that they were burned, that they were misplaced.
Chris Talgo:So there's a blood there's a lot of stuff like that happening the fact. And the and, you know, another big problem that I think the people of America understood was happening in real time before the very eyes was the lack of transparency with the voting process. Whether it was what happened in, Atlanta with, you know, this pipe burst and then they just quit counting in the middle of the night or some of the stuff in Detroit where they put, you know, paper over the windows so you couldn't see what was going on there. There was a lot of funny business and a lot of weird stuff that was going on. I stayed up that night until, you know, the wee hours of the morning.
Chris Talgo:You know, at one point, it looked like it was a complete lock that Donald Trump was gonna win reelection. And then all of a sudden, we gotta stop counting, and then we see trucks coming with more ballots and all this just crazy stuff. And then, you know, a couple days later, they say, well, after now, you know, counting all these mail in ballots that just magically appeared sometimes out of thin air, it just so happens that that, Joe Biden won by the most minuscule of amounts in those crucial swing states.
Marc Morano:Well, the other thing you'll hear is well, every court that's looked at these claims that you're making that, you know, that there's a lot of irregularities, Said that there was nothing there, and they were dismissed, and that no judges, no court in any state has ever agreed with this in the Supreme Court. And they used that as a way of saying there's a no there there. Can you tell us the story behind what were all these court cases? Why didn't any of them get full hearings? Why didn't anything go that way?
Marc Morano:Why didn't the Supreme Court look at these irregularities? What's the I know there's a lot of federalism as well there, and also other jurisdictional issues. But explain, because you'll almost invariably, if you're having a conversation with a Biden supporter, the first thing out of their mouth is no court agrees with anything you've said. Every court dismissed these, but there's nothing there. So how do you respond to that?
Chris Talgo:Okay. There's there's there's 2 main points that I wanna make on this. So first of all, as I, you know, said earlier, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to prove some of these after the fact because whether the the belt was discarded, whether the, the envelope was discarded, It's literally impossible to prove. The other thing that, a lot of the courts, I think, were reluctant to make somewhat controversial rulings on this because they didn't want to be be the arbiters of the election. You know, you talked about 2,000, and I remember 2,000.
Chris Talgo:I remember that the Supreme Court did make that call in Florida, and there was a lot of, you know, people in the country that were really angry about that. No. The Supreme Court should not, you know, declare who wins and doesn't win. So I think, you know, the Roberts Court said, you know what? We wanna stay away from this, but I don't think that that was the best decision.
Chris Talgo:It was a short term political decision. But what it what it did was it emboldened a lot of these states to say, oh, we got away with it in 2020. We're going to get away with it again and again and again.
Marc Morano:So the other courts, you know, I think I think, like, the local, state courts, how come there was never, were they just jurisdictional issues, or how were the judges, you know, like, Democrat operatives, they just wanna see the cases? Is that the same thing on the lower courts as well?
Announcer:Same thing in the lower courts, and a lot of
Chris Talgo:this was, you know, they it was done under the emergency declaration. So the emergency declaration just gave these Secretaries of State and these governors wide ranging powers to do things that they ordinarily could not do. And the, you know, the state Supreme Court, even the lower courts in a lot of the states, they, you know, they just went along with that. They went along with that narrative. Even though, as you I'm sure you remember, there were many instances in the summer of love of 2020 in which people were said, you can go protest.
Chris Talgo:That's fine. So it's like, you know, if it's a social justice cause, you can go and do anything you want. But by November, you know, well after the pandemic, you know, really had, like, hit hard, they were telling us, if you go and vote in person, you might die, which is just patently absurd. But it just goes to show that they were pushing as hard as they could to make mail in, voting, you know, the new normal. And to some degree, they are succeeding.
Chris Talgo:And that's why we're trying to make sure that the American people understand that this mail in voting thing, which they're trying to say is that this is, like, you know, the the the new way of voting. No. This is not the new way of voting. Well, I
Marc Morano:well, that's why I'd like to talk to you about some of these emergency powers that they used to make this happen. We have to take a break. We're talking to Christopher Talgo, editorial director for socialism research, and socialism research fellow at the Heartland Institute, who has a new study out, looking at the 2020 election. And basically, you're saying that Donald Trump actually won based on your analysis. Am I correct in saying that?
Chris Talgo:Absolutely. You're correct in saying that.
Marc Morano:Okay. And so so we'll be right back to continue this discussion. This is Unleashed with Mark Marrano on TNT. Stay tuned.
Jim Lakely:Before we get to the rest of this podcast, I wanna let you know about 2 fantastic live podcasts Heartland produces every week. We'd love for you to join us every Thursday at 1 PM EST, noon CST, live for our flagship in the tank podcast. You can watch on the stopping socialism TV channel on YouTube, where you can participate in the show in the chat with other fans and also ask questions that we'll address on the air and put up on the screen. And every Friday, also at 1 PM EST and noon CST, you can go to Heartland's main YouTube channel. Just search for the Heartland Institute on YouTube for the new Climate Realism Show.
Jim Lakely:Heartland's climate team of Anthony Watts, Sterling Burnett, and Linnea Lukin cover the crazy climate news of the week, debunk mainstream media myths about the so called climate crisis, dig into energy policy, and much more. The show often features guests that include some of the leading climate scientists and energy policy experts anywhere in the world. There is no show like it, So become regular live viewers of both of these programs if you are interested in smart, lively, fun, and interactive conversations. We hope to see you there every Thursday Friday afternoons at 1 PM EST and noon CST at the stopping socialism TV and the Heartland Institute channels on YouTube. Oh, yeah.
Jim Lakely:We're also on Rumble. See you there.
Announcer:Fearless, informative, and unfettered. Mark Marano is unleashed on today's news talk, TNT Radio.
Marc Morano:Welcome back to Unleashed on TNT with, Mark Marrano. We're continuing our discussion with Christopher Talgo, editorial director of in socialism, a research fellow, managing editor of stopping socialism.com for the of the Heartland Institute. Alright, Christopher or Chris, the pandemic, 2020, it's almost I always say, like, what happened with COVID was the same way gun control advocates wait for a school shooting, or the way biosecurity people who wanna take away our freedom and have a surveillance state wait for a terrorism attack. There's certain things waiting and and waiting in the wings for something bad to happen so they can exploit the politics. Do you think the, the write in ballot advocates were waiting for something like COVID to have an excuse to impose this.
Marc Morano:And what exactly happened in COVID? How did this how did they how did they get to the point where there's a huge jump in mail in ballots in 2020? You you alluded to it. It was all about fear and saying you would die. But just how bad was it, and how how ready were the proponents of write in ballots, which they probably wanted for decades, to now move in and and make it happen?
Chris Talgo:Yeah. So like I said earlier, this this trend of, trying to increase, mail in voting has been happening basically since 2000, and it's been, you know, slowly but surely climbing every single election. But water, 2020 was a watershed moment because we had more than doubled the previous amount in, 2016. And like you said, this was all based on fear mongering. This was all based on control.
Chris Talgo:This was all based on states who knew that going and voting in person was not going to be a health hazard, literally trying to instigate, you know, just panic among the people to say, You can't go and vote. You can't go and do anything. You must stay at home, vote by mail, and, you know, just trust us. That is not the way that elections, you know, should be run. You know, it it's also interesting to note that, you know, Europe and most of the other OECD countries, they've done away with mail in voting for decades.
Chris Talgo:They know how how fraud what's fraud it is. So why is the United States moving the opposite direction of all those, you know, other countries? I mean, there's so many, pitfalls with mail in voting. So many. And these states, I think, knowingly said, well, it allows us to flood the zone with, you know, ballots.
Chris Talgo:And once those ballots are out there, it's just all about getting them back in, and then it's just a numbers game. And they think that they have a better ground game, the Democrats, the left, than the Republicans do. The Democrats have a much they do have a much better ground game. They have a much better, you know, way of, you know, getting voters to the polls. They have a much better way of, you know, making sure that those, mail in ballots are getting, you know, put into the drop boxes.
Chris Talgo:Ballot harvesting is one of their, you know, their best art forms. The GOP, the Republicans, the, you know, right, just they don't embrace it, you know, as much. And one of the things that's, you know, happening now is there's this, this this debate saying, well, should we should we, you know, everyone just embrace mail in voting? You know? And I'm saying no.
Chris Talgo:No. No. No. And we're saying no because it's gonna be it's then it's just gonna be whoever can cheat, you know, the most will win the election. That's not how elections are supposed to be run.
Marc Morano:Yeah. Wow. If you look, at what happened with Carrie Lake in Arizona when she lost that race, she was crying foul. Was that right in ballots? Was that voting machines?
Marc Morano:Was that what was the issue there? And what are your what is your just I know you didn't do an in-depth analysis on Arizona race, but what exactly do you think may have happened there?
Announcer:Yeah. So, actually, the the the
Chris Talgo:state of Arizona was, I think, one of the most, you know, in in incredible stories of 2020. In Arizona, more than 90% of people voted by mail. Less than 1 in 10 went and actually voted in person. That's either voting on Election Day or in the early voting period. I think that Carrie Lake has a very good argument to say, Wait a second.
Chris Talgo:All these, you know, people were, sent, you know, mail in ballots, absentee ballots. Just, you know, it was it was such a mess in Arizona. It took them days days days to get the count right. There have been multiple recounts. There have been multiple audits.
Chris Talgo:It just keep the numbers keep coming back differently. Yeah. There was a lot of talk about the Dominion Voting Machines and other voting machines, you know, playing with the numbers there. But just across the board, Arizona was a complete dumpster fire in terms of the 2020 election.
Marc Morano:Alright. And then what about Georgia, the runoff election? I can't even remember, that's actually, I can't remember what year. If it was a 2020, but the, or 2021, the runoff election. And I remember that the, governor Kemp's, like, top aide or someone in his office was an executive on Diebold.
Marc Morano:There was a lot of questions about that. I remember people saying, like, don't even vote in that special election. And, of course, the Democrat won. But what was going on in Georgia during those runoff elections with the voter integrity?
Chris Talgo:Yeah. So, the the Georgia case is another great, you know, example of, you know, something going horribly wrong, but then them actually fixing it. So like you said, there was the there was there was the double run up. It was, Warnock and, Ossoff, both were were running because in in Georgia, you have to have, you know, the 50% to to win the election. So they did the runoff, and, yes, there was a lot of, you know, I think, dismay among, you know, GOP supporters by saying, you know what?
Chris Talgo:We just don't trust elections anymore and all that, you know, stuff. But what happened after the, runoff election is what really, you know, caught our attention. So Georgia and Florida really went out of their way to say, we need to clean up our elections. We need to make sure that, you know, that people who are voting by mail actually have an excuse to vote by mail. We, you know, wanna make sure that the voter rolls are getting cleaned up, and we want to make sure that ballot harvesting is not happening and just all that stuff.
Chris Talgo:What happened, as I'm sure you remember, was the media went just completely crazy saying, this is all about voter suppression. This is all about Jim Crow. This is all about, you know, trying to deny, minorities the right to vote. But interestingly, in the 2022 midterms in both Florida and Georgia, the data showed that minority voters actually participated at a higher rate than they did in 2020. So it's just complete and utter nonsense, this notion that is being brought out there to say that this is all about trying to suppress the vote.
Chris Talgo:No. It's actually actually it's really about trying to make sure that people are not disenfranchised because every single time someone votes illegally, that's disenfranchising someone's, you know, rightful vote.
Marc Morano:Alright. Well, we couldn't have a complete conversation without at least having you address what the left says that was the real problem, like in 2016. Russian interference in elections, and we had many election deniers of 2016 on the Democrat side, CNN, MSNBC. How much of a factor was Russian interference in 2016? I'm trying to get a straight face.
Chris Talgo:0. 0. You know, they keep playing the Russia card just like they've been playing the race card again and again and again. They're doing it now. They're doing it again.
Chris Talgo:And it's just preposterous at this point. It's just ludicrous for for them to gaslight the American people to this degree and think that we don't know better than that. I I think that the American people are really going to make their voice heard in 2024 as long as the election is on the up and up. I'm confident that, we're going to have a, you know, landslide, 1980 style, you know, just you know, huge victory. I am.
Chris Talgo:Yep.
Marc Morano:Okay. Why would you be let's then we only have about a minute and a half left or so. Tell us what reforms are needed, and what reform first of all, what's happened that gives you that confidence? And how do they the 6 states, let's focus on it. What's changed now going into 20 24 that's different?
Marc Morano:Are there is there a severe I wish we could have an honest election and win, but people sort of resigned that they can't. Why are you so confident in what has been done and what can be done on the state levels?
Chris Talgo:Well, my my first, I'm very confident because there there's gonna be no pandemic as far as we can tell. You know? Obviously, there could be something that that comes out, you know? Yeah. But but as as of right now, like, their whole, you know, pandemic excuse is out the window.
Chris Talgo:So, you know, the the the American people are, you know, well aware that all that crazy stuff that happened in 2020, no way are they gonna, you know, be able to repeat that again. Some of those states have passed, you know, some election reforms. That's great. You know, we still have a lot of work to do, but I am confident that, you know, the state of the economy, immigration, and all the prime is going to produce a huge Donald Trump victory in 2024.
Marc Morano:Alright. Well, thank you very much. That's Christopher Tago, editorial director, stopsocialism.com of the Heartland Institute. Thank you for joining the show. Thank you for watching.
Marc Morano:This is Unleashed with Mark Marrano on TNT. See you next time.