Losing the TV career, keeping the skills - Feat Devin the Dad

Devin McGovern spent over a decade producing reality TV, wrapped a show in October 2024, and never got another call. Hundreds of job applications later, not one interview. In his mid forties with two kids, the creator economy wasn't a bold pivot so much as the only place money was moving.

In this episode, Devin is candid about the content that flopped first, the disastrous family dinner that led to a video hitting 8 million views in two days, and the money: zero to over $10k a month in brand deals in eighteen months, the one question he asks every inbound brand, and the thirty hour TikTok blackout that made him realise he owned none of it.

Topics covered: career pivots from traditional media · transferable production skills · finding your niche · brand deal negotiation · rented vs owned audience · newsletters · treating creating as a business

What is Creator Generation?

Creator Generation brings you behind the scenes of the creator economy, featuring top YouTubers and experts who share the strategies, lessons, and stories behind building successful channels, growing incredible businesses, and driving the world’s biggest online video successes.

Ant: 00:00

Hey. I'm Fred. And I'm Ant. And this is Creator Generation.

Ant: 00:05

He was a reality TV producer, but then he lost his job, so he became a creator instead. Today, we sit down with Devin McGovern, who's known online as Devin the dad. He built an audience, took the brand deals, yet still hit a wall. This is the story of that journey from traditional production to creator to actually owning his audience instead of renting it.

Ant: 00:29

So we'll dive right in. So tell me when you knew the TV career was done.

Devin: 00:35

Well, I mean, I I have an exact date when it was done, but I think the progression, I think the pandemic hit, productions were shut down and it was like, Oh, wow, this this who knows when we're coming back. It also altered the way we worked. And then the writer strike hit. So it was like a double whammy. And then for me, ultimately, it was October 2024.

Devin: 01:00

I wrapped my show and just stopped getting phone calls and emails. So I'd already kind of seen the writing on the wall before. It wasn't just like it caught me out of nowhere because of productions being shut down and the writers' strike. But primarily for me, it was finish a show and have not been on another show since.

Ant: 01:19

Brutal. What did it feel like did did it feel at the time that that was, like, the end of the chapter, or was it more open ended waiting for a phone call?

Devin: 01:32

I think you go through like, I worked in TV for over a decade, specifically as a producer in reality, many more years before that doing stand up comedy and trying to be an actor. You know, twenty plus years, it feels like I know I look young, but no, for real, it's been that long. And there's a there's a sense of, Oh, I'm going to get an email. I'm going to get a phone call because it always happened. I had always like wrapped a show and then maybe had a couple of weeks off and you hang out, enjoy that downtime, and then somebody calls you or emails you and they're like, You want to jump on?

Devin: 02:06

You're like, Great. And this time it hurts a little bit. You have a little bit of a grieving process where it's like something that you really love doing. And I love doing it as hard as it was as challenging. I loved being a reality TV producer.

Devin: 02:20

And it comes with a sense of like this. I may not be able to do it again. So I do feel like it was hard and I feel like I've come on the other side of that. But I do remember because it it's a sense of identity. You places you go and you're like, I worked on Bar Rescue and I was a TV producer.

Devin: 02:40

You know, you get a sense of identity from a job that you've done that people, like, know and have watched and can relate to. So that was a challenge. Mhmm.

Ant: 02:48

Yeah. I can imagine. Definitely production and entertainment production and content. Right? Whether a creator or a TV producer, it's not just a job.

Ant: 02:58

Right? Like yeah.

Devin: 02:59

Right.

Ant: 03:00

And then as that feeling sort of continued to to, I guess, stick around. Right? Like, did did you have a sense of what that meant next or what you would do next at that time?

Devin: 03:14

I wanted to do something creative, of course. I I I love the creative industry and in any way that you can. I was already dabbling with social media before just as a side hustle, as like a creative outlet from my creative job, because many times, even though production is like creative, it sometimes is soul sucking and not as creative. So this was a creative outlet doing Instagram fashion blogging. At the time, it was like blogging and mommy bloggers and fashion bloggers.

Devin: 03:47

That was like before influencers, before creators. So I kind of understood that world and I was like, Well, I guess I could dive into that. I've already found ways to monetize. I kind of understood how the world worked, but never had done it full time. This is the gig, until I had to.

Ant: 04:04

So yeah. It's it that's so yeah. It's interesting. It's different. Right?

Ant: 04:09

Like, when you're dabbling versus diving in and and to to go into diving in, like, when you you've got this production skill set, right, and this and this creative itch. And, like, it's not like TV production's over, right, or reality TV's over completely. But what made you go, you know what? No matter what, if the phone's not ringing or not, like, I'm like, proactively, I'm not gonna take those steps as much. I'm gonna take these steps to be a creator.

Devin: 04:44

I think ultimately, I took those steps out of necessity, because I'm in my mid forties, married with two kids, and the mistake that I made before the producing job ended was, oh, my producing skills will transfer into many different industries. I've worn so many hats as a producer. I could be in marketing. I could be in PR. I could be in Web three or crypto or like, you know, there's so many different things that you feel like you do as a producer.

Devin: 05:14

So that was a big mistake. And then when the job ended in production, I couldn't get an interview. I mean, I would send hundreds and hundreds of resumes to job applications, hired a resume polisher or whatever they call those people to make sure that my LinkedIn looked right and my resume looked right. And I couldn't even get an interview. So going to the Creator Economy was this is the only thing that's making money, and I've got to feed my kids who eat a lot of berries.

Devin: 05:42

If I had gotten a job in another industry, like so many of my friend colleagues that I've worked with before, I might have just done that. You know, some of them are, you know, financial advisors or teachers, and I just was not able to get a job. So this is where the money was at, and this is what I put my full focus into, even though it was like starting a whole business and it doesn't feel feels less stable than reality TV production at times. It was the only thing making money, so I had to.

Ant: 06:09

And was there like an acknowledgment for you like, oh, hey, but my skills do transfer here really clearly or not so much? Like

Devin: 06:18

Well, I think I've always been a proponent of if you want to be creative, just create your own stuff. Before YouTube, I was one I did the Doritos Super Bowl contest commercial the very first year they did it. And I think that was like YouTube was kind of like I didn't. Yeah, we put it on YouTube, but it was like the infancy stages. So I was always like, Hey, if Hollywood, even back fifteen years ago, doesn't want to give me a job, I can create my own stuff.

Devin: 06:46

I'll go to Best Buy and shoot it on mini DV and cut it on Final Cut Pro. So I was like, well, this is the same type of thing. Just you have a lot more access and eyeballs right away instead of submitting to festivals and contests, because that's kind of what I had done before. Now I could just put it online and get instant feedback and continue to create.

Ant: 07:08

So what did that look like? What was the you know, you're making this leap out of necessity and desire, really, like, you know, like that maybe necessity was the driver to start with. But what does that what does that look like? What did you start doing?

Devin: 07:23

Well, when production shut down during the pandemic, we all had a lot of time. We all a lot of people did TikTok dancing, and they kind of took off or they stopped. And I had a nine month old. She was about a year. So there was a lot of dad time.

Devin: 07:38

So I wanted to maybe that was like, maybe I could do dad content while we're sitting it at home and give some takeaways because I've always wanted to be a dad. I feel like there's we're in an age of like modern dads and they're more present. So I'm like, great, I can go that route and be an influence to dads. And as I created this content, we did a few things. We did a thing with my daughter called Conversations with Dada, where we would just sit and eat and she would talk and I would talk mostly about the NBA.

Devin: 08:08

Maybe that was the problem. And it didn't really take off, and I realized at the end of it, I'm like, I'm just trying to get by. I I have no tips for dads, unfortunately. Like, I can't tell you how to sleep train your child, because my daughter's gonna be seven and I still co sleep with her. So I don't have any tips and tricks.

Devin: 08:27

And I realized that. And it came to a point my wife and I would send funny videos like you do to your spouse or your friends back and forth. Oh, this is funny. You send the funny stuff a lot first. And we were laughing because we realized, Oh my gosh, there's so many other parents that are dealing with this, how hard parenting is, because that's what my wife took out of it.

Devin: 08:48

We were like, This is hard. And I was like, Why don't we do the funny route? Why don't we just talk about how hard it is? Talk about the funny. And the moment that it changed for me was after I was done with reality TV.

Devin: 09:02

And I'm figuring out exactly what that content is going to look like. And we are visiting grandma and grandpa, my parents in Colorado, and we went to dinner with my two kids, and it was an absolute shit show. I'm talking like, I don't know why it has to be this hard, but there was just a nightmare. And I had seen this trend about going to touch grass and just getting out in nature when things are hard. And I would do that in reality TV.

Devin: 09:26

Like, we would get notes and it would be crazy and we'd just have to go outside and and get some fresh air. So I saw this trend. We got back from dinner. I had my mom film me in the backyard of their Colorado. They've got these beautiful trees, and I'm touching trees, touching the grass.

Devin: 09:42

And then I just put the text on the screen, just took our two toddlers to dinner and had to touch grass because WTF was that. Two days later, it hit 8,000,000 views. So I was like, oh, this is it. People want. And then and then after reading the comments, people were like, Oh my gosh, that's me.

Devin: 10:04

That was me at dinner last night. Were you at dinner with me last night? And then realizing it's very relatable, the funny and the hard. And that's the takeaway that sometimes as parents and even as creators, I kind of compare this creators, it can feel very lonely. But if you can watch something and relate to it, it doesn't feel as alone, even though we're doing it through the phone.

Devin: 10:30

But like at parents, you sometimes are just sitting alone with your child at night and you can't leave and you think you're the only one doing it. And then you realize on your phone you're like, Oh my gosh, someone else had their kid asked that butt be wiped in the middle of dinner. It wasn't just me tonight. And that relatability is what I was like, ah, that was the moment for me.

Ant: 10:52

That's beautiful. And I can, you know, as a father of two, I so relate to that exactly. And you I can it it makes so much sense, but in in hindsight, but you had to test and experiment to get there, right, to to find that. And then so, like, what does that look like then once you've had this epiphany and then play? What what changed for you then?

Devin: 11:16

I think what changed for me was every day there's a piece of content that can be created, and I have turned into what I'm saying, I'm turning the chaos into content. You know, I was a former reality TV producer and I turned the chaos of parenting into content. And that's kind of what I talk about. And that's really just there's always content to be had with children. And then I also say even just throughout your day, there's always some sort of content, if that's the route you want.

Devin: 11:48

And most of us have to create content, whether you're a doctor, you're a real estate agent, we all are content creators now. And there's something that can be created out of just the daily, not just the big moments, but the small moments. And those are the things that I think people relate to the most, because sometimes the big, big highs, you're like, Oh my gosh, I you you made $15,000,000 on your digital product. That's great. But like, what about, you know, the the small things about taking your kids on vacation and how hard that is?

Devin: 12:21

And I think those are the things so many people can relate to. And that's kind of how it changed for me.

Ant: 12:26

Love it. And then once you start making content, you sort of a bit you're confident in the direction of what you're doing. Obviously, you know, we skip a few few beats, but audience builds, brands come knocking on your door, and things like that. But what skills, you know, in from your kit bag of your experience in in production and TV? And and What what were some of those skills that were really valuable now that you sort of weren't searching for the content inspiration so much, but you you you started to build that?

Ant: 13:01

What was yeah. Show us some of those transfer into skills. I'd love to know what from the traditional world is really valuable in the creator world.

Devin: 13:11

Yeah, I think story is ultimately in the traditional media and in the creator world. Like, if you have a good story to tell, people are interested. I think we're always telling a story in some way or another. When I had first started doing the fashion blogging, my wife and I had called it outlined cloth, because the first thing you do when you write a story is you write an outline. And even though we don't judge people, you know, they say, Don't judge a book by its cover.

Devin: 13:39

We ultimately do all the time. And we had said, like, When you put clothes on, you're kind of putting the outline of what you're trying the story you're trying to tell others. So I think on social, the story is the ultimate end all, be all. Like, even if you are funny and you have a good thing, people will follow you if they enjoy your story and everything else you're doing, not just the one funny video. The other thing was really grabbing people's attention.

Devin: 14:08

In traditional media, we had ten minutes before we really had to have a big act out and get people. Mr. Beast has changed that to three seconds, but it still applies and that you want to keep people. For us, it was to keep people through the commercial. Same type of thing.

Devin: 14:25

We called it the act out where you had to have, you know, the build up, the build up and then boom. And you're like, Oh my gosh, I got to stay through the commercial. Now we just have truncated it. Like, I got to stay through the first couple of seconds of what you're talking about to watch your whole video. But I'm used to that because you want to keep people.

Devin: 14:41

We use it in a smaller time frame now.

Ant: 14:44

Yeah. Love that. And and it's it's interesting that, like, the things that you pick out, though, are more creative than process. Right? Like Right.

Ant: 14:54

Are there were there any process or production transference, or is it is it totally a different world when you start making your own content?

Devin: 15:03

Oh, I guess yeah. I guess for me, it's kind of like second nature because I've been editing for so long. I I forget some of those processes that people don't really know how to do it. Yeah. But, you know, I went from Final Cut to Avid to Adobe to CapCut to now edits on the phone.

Devin: 15:21

So I've been editing for twenty years on every system possible. So I don't always think about that. And I forget that people don't really even know just the basics of like editing a video or what that looks like. So, yeah, like I've had those skills for a very long time. And then filming, you know, I've been filming stuff for years.

Devin: 15:42

So like what it looks like to film and, you know, I know vector line is not like a big thing in social, but, you know, making sure that you have the right eye line and all that kind of stuff that maybe the young folks take for granted. But the older folks that are creating content don't have any idea. I've been doing production for years.

Ant: 15:59

Yeah. Love that. So you've just built this innate set of skill set that just, like, transfers. You didn't even have to put a whole bunch of brainpower towards. They just became naturally absorbed into your new new life, your new workflow, your career.

Devin: 16:15

Yeah. Exactly.

Ant: 16:16

Love that. Let's talk revenue though. Okay. So it become like, this is out of necessity to build a income and and a business and and and desire to build it. So then where's like, when you're on this journey, where did the when did the revenue start and what was that?

Devin: 16:31

Yeah. So the revenue is is was right now, it's brand deals. So that's how we're getting you know, Instagram is our biggest platform. It's short form content. So we're doing brand deals.

Devin: 16:43

A lot of parents, dad, you know, health, wellness. And I want to say since the, like, pivot straight into Humorous Dad, it was probably six months before it was, like, consistent revenue. We would get, you know, maybe one campaign here or like a rollover from maybe somebody that worked with us in the past on the fashion stuff. But it was probably like six months in before it was like, boom, we made some consistent. And now we're less than two years of consistent and we're averaging like 10 ks a month, you know, just over 10 ks.

Devin: 17:20

So like from zero and basically a year and a half to over 10 ks, strictly brand deals. That does include the other revenue that we'll talk about.

Ant: 17:28

Yeah. Beautiful. Love that. So yeah. I mean, you know, you sort of alluded to it.

Ant: 17:34

So it's probably I I mean, maybe even the the brand deal side we should dig into just a little bit. Like, how how do you find I I guess, broadly, how do you find that, like, as a creator? How does that feel to you? I guess that's a pretty broad question, but I I I think, you know, I'll leave it there, and then we can unpick it.

Devin: 17:54

Yeah, so there's a couple of things. Starting out, it's making kind of a list of all the brands that I currently use that are just in the house between myself, my wife, my kids, like any type of brand that we're using. And I kind of put that list together, and then I started building some content, tagging those folks, reaching out to those folks as it made sense, where I was like, Oh, okay, this feels like a good brand opportunity. So started Instagram. Then as I realized LinkedIn was a key, started adding stuff to LinkedIn.

Devin: 18:33

Because for me, no offense to LinkedIn, coming from TV production, I never used LinkedIn. It felt like just people who looked for a job and needed a job used LinkedIn, and I had a job all the time. I didn't need LinkedIn. I didn't need to talk about my TV resume on there, and most of my TV friends didn't use it either. Once I saw the importance of LinkedIn, it began Instagram direct message to brands, LinkedIn direct message to brands, and then searching for emails and then sending them a direct email.

Devin: 19:07

And then as I did that, and as we got, you know, a video that hit 8,000,000 when we went to Hawaii, we edited it like a reality show. We had 10,000,000 views. We were on the Today Show. People.com wrote about us. We got flooded with brands.

Devin: 19:24

So then, yeah, I was managing all the brands of like, does this make sense? Does this make sense? You know? And then as you start out, many of them are we're going to send you free product and here's an affiliate code.

Ant: 19:35

It

Devin: 19:37

depends. I always say if it's something you would buy, like it's it's good practice to film a video with a brand. If it's like it doesn't make any sense, then it doesn't make sense. Then as you do that, I always the line I always use is, you know, is this just free product or do you have a budget? So, you know, teaching people to ask if they have a budget and then being okay to say no.

Devin: 20:02

So then as those inbound emails came, asking if they have a budget, then more would come and then kind of setting what my budget would be for the deliverables. And then I still, to this day, send emails to brands reaching out to folks that I'd like to work with. And then I just got a manager in January of this year who deals with a lot of inbound and then also any of their connections. So now I'm getting their whole Rolodex of contacts and brands they work with.

Ant: 20:33

Love it. And then, you know, we we you you flagged it, you know, other revenue streams. I mean, we we well, I was lucky enough, I guess, to well, maybe we were lucky enough to meet because you, you know, you participated in a a an MBA for Creators program with us in in you know, we got to spend two days in a room together then a bunch of weeks with the changer team, You know, with the the intent of showing creators the opportunity to build something that that transcends the content and the the upload hamster wheel. But, you know, I I know some of the answers to this because we've worked together on this, and I've seen you, you know, tell me this stuff. But before, like, before you walked into that room, like, what was your mindset around what you were building and the opportunity versus what it is now, I guess.

Devin: 21:25

Yeah. I think when I walked in there, it was how can I continue to grow my following, get more followers on Instagram, TikTok, and get more brand deals because instead of doing, you know, five brand deals at 2,500, I could do one for 10 ks? And how can I find those brands that'll pay a little bit higher? That was the mindset going in. I had already and then transitioned after the class.

Devin: 21:51

I had I knew that I had a rented audience. I didn't necessarily take all that in, but like if reality TV taught me anything and how quickly it went away. And then also the little tick tock scare when it was, I think what was it like thirty hours or something that we didn't have TikTok and realizing, oh, wow, you could build a whole empire, whatever it is, on a platform that then just says, we're not going to let you be in this country and you can't use it. And you're like, Oh wow, it could go away. So leaving that room.

Devin: 22:28

I was like, Oh, it's clearly a rented audience. I need to own my audience going in. I kind of understood it was rented, but I didn't fully understand what that meant until I left those two days in that room and realizing I gotta own it because I don't own anything.

Ant: 22:44

And what does that mean for you? Like, when you own like, what what gives you confidence to say I own an audience? Like, what do you what does that mean? Because I think it's something that's talked, you know, talked about a lot, but maybe not enough, and then also not specifically what is what does that mean to you?

Devin: 23:01

Owning an audience for me is being able to put together an email list that you have everyone's email that then you can send them whatever it is that you're working on, whether it's on a platform, Instagram, whether it's TikTok, whether it's a newsletter, merchandise. So being able to own an audience and having an email list is like I've got it. I don't really even know the people on Instagram. Not that I'm going to like know all my email, but it's like here. It's all in one spot.

Devin: 23:30

If I wanted to just send one email to one person, I can. But Instagram and TikTok is not necessarily you don't own any of that. And really, it's only on the platform that they're getting Devin the dad or turning chaos in the content information. If I wanna give any other information that I'm doing, it has to be off platform. And in a way to do that, I feel like, is getting emails from individuals.

Ant: 23:55

Yeah. Yeah. I I I mean, I totally agree. It doesn't sound sexy and cool, email. Like, corporates use that.

Ant: 24:03

Right? But the value of it, like, it's, you know, it's like how people in suit and ties communicate to each other in in big high rises. But I'm yet to identify, like, another tool or platform where you have a direct contact with your audience. Granted, I don't think anything the these things are in isolation. Right?

Ant: 24:26

Like, know, we you couldn't build your one can. You can generally. But, Devin, you you you couldn't have your email list that you have now without uploading to the platforms, etcetera. But what we've found a lot of creators says, they don't, like, they don't know what to say on email. I don't have like, everyone acknowledges how valuable it is, and I see that as a really interesting signal because everyone's like, it's really valuable.

Ant: 24:53

I don't have something valuable enough to say. But also, you've got a bit of a different approach to the your email of what you what you create on email. So, like, two part question. Like, how did you reconcile it? I actually do have something valuable to say.

Ant: 25:09

And then and then what is that now? How does that work within what you're what you're building with your, I guess, ecosystem? It's kind of a a way to look at it.

Devin: 25:17

Right. I guess when I when I left the program well, we're still in the program. But when I left those two days together, that was like, what what is what am I gonna say? I also felt that same way because and I think where people struggle, you've got content on Instagram. Well, how am I gonna get their email?

Devin: 25:39

I'm creating, like, a funny video. You know, my daughter hit her sister in the face in the pool. Send me your email. So you're like, okay, well, that doesn't make sense. Or if you're like, hey, here's my shirt from Buck Mason that's really cool.

Devin: 25:55

And then could I get your email? Because you're like, woah, how did those connect? Yeah. So I left in the same way others feel. Great.

Devin: 26:04

I feel I know it's important, but what am I gonna say? And that's when I realized that I was in a very unique situation that I built this persona, this content on Instagram. But I also have a story, which I think everyone has a story. I have this mid-40s career pivot that's very specific. I was a reality TV producer, traditional media that went into content, and now we're kind of finding those two worlds colliding again.

Devin: 26:29

And I have said I churned chaos into content. So this is what I have to say. Other people have a similar story that they can talk about. They're not just the person they are on Instagram. And I think that's where you can utilize emails and an email becomes a newsletter, which is the new big thing.

Devin: 26:50

And that's something that you don't just have to send an email, but you put together a newsletter and you're sharing whatever your story is, because maybe your story is you were a banker and then you became a fashion blogger or you were just a mom. I don't say just a mom. You were a mom and now you're teaching people how to cook from your kitchen. So that's what you can say and getting those emails. And I think what's great about that is that people want to connect with that story and read that and consume all your content because your content is the job.

Devin: 27:24

And then it's the story that you're able to tell through a newsletter. I guess that's the best one. And that's what I did is I jumped on and put a newsletter on Beehive. So that's my platform. Again, a platform, but it's, you know, I had I do have all those emails that I'm able to send them to.

Ant: 27:40

And then your your email content is quite different to your, like, video content. Right? Like, tell us a bit about that. What's your what's your objectives and goal with that?

Devin: 27:52

Yeah. I think it it does kinda go in line. You know, the email and newsletter is an opportunity to teach people how to land brand deals. What I did on Instagram and go from zero to 10 ks. How did I do that?

Devin: 28:06

Here's some tips and tricks. What are some of the things that I'm learning about in the industry? You know, I went to press publish. I did my first speaking opportunity. But with all that, you know, what are things that I did to get ready for the speaking opportunity?

Devin: 28:21

What are things that I'm doing as a dad in social media with my kid? Like, you've got this digital world, but I'm trying to create this human touch with kids. So I feel like it goes hand in hand, but it gives me, you know, more leeway to talk about things you can do, things that I'm doing and maybe they can learn along the way. So it does definitely. But I do say I call it churning chaos in the content.

Devin: 28:46

And it is the, you know, the framework for what I'm building.

Ant: 28:49

And what's the long term value or the value you're trying to capture there? Like, you know, from a business point of view, you've got predominantly brand brand funded revenue from your video content and Instagram, but, like, what what's that look like when you, you know, start talking around email list and and the the what you're building there and and the opportunities you're trying to sort of build towards.

Devin: 29:12

Yeah, I think the longer term game is I would love for it not just to be, you know, when I talk about my story of chaos, the content, not just a one way street, but the ability eventually to hear other stories. So this is just kind of like the groundwork for being able to be, you know, like hearing what other folks you know, everyone had a moment, they had a chaos and then may or may not be content, but it may be something else. So this is just kind of the groundwork that I'm laying to be able to then get other stories, get other, you know, opportunities for people to kind of two way. You know, I think content is what I love about social that you didn't necessarily have with traditional media. Traditional media was a one way.

Devin: 29:58

It was we film the TV show, you consume it. Social media has a little more of a two way opportunity where I can create a piece of content, get feedback, share feedback, get feedback. And I want the newsletter and what I'm building with Chaos the Content to eventually become more of a two way and not just me pushing information out, if that makes sense.

Ant: 30:21

I love that. And and and a lot of what you say in those newsletters, really talking to people who are, like, potentially either going through have gone through a similar journey of yourself from, like, you know, the production world in particular as a starting point. It's changing dramatically. But you have skills, assets, knowledge, and it's transferable. And this is what I I've done.

Ant: 30:43

And it not and you're not saying, hey, you all can go or should do exactly as I did, but you have transferrables. Like like you said, I you have transferrable skills. You're helping on earth where those transferrable skills can go. And and I think you're at the vanguard of, you know, good and bad. At the time, it would have felt pretty bad.

Ant: 31:03

But you're at the vanguard of this new generation of experienced production and media and entertainment professionals Right. Where where things are changed and changing. And instead of crying, poor me, and and, you know, throwing your hands up and and giving up or or giving in, it's like, actually, there's it's still media and entertainment and production and content and stories, the things that are really interesting and valuable. Right. They're still there.

Ant: 31:31

They're still happening. It's just happening in a very different way.

Devin: 31:33

Right.

Ant: 31:33

If you were you know, if you're talking to a creator right now, someone who has they've got audience, they've got content, they're making money from brand deals. Like, it feels like it's working. Right? Like, you you you know, the the avatar I'm sort of talking about. But what's you know, it's a good old cliche thing.

Ant: 31:55

But, like, you at that that stage for yourself, what's the thing that you would have liked someone to have been telling you?

Devin: 32:02

What I would say is creating content and views relies entirely on you. If you get sick, if something happens to knock on wood, you know, one of your family members and you're not able to create that content, then it's it's done just like a traditional job. So I know that feels like, Oh, this is not a traditional job. But if you're not producing that content and the only thing you have is a brand deal revenue, then it's done. So what are you building so that if you had to step away, is there revenue that's coming in from what you've built that could continue to sustain if you had to step away from creating content every single day?

Devin: 32:45

Because it is, you know, it's a job. You're creating content every day and some people are doing it two and three times. And then what have you created once or twice? You know, you've got like AdSense and YouTube that can go, but something like a newsletter that could could go and you've got people, you know, sponsoring that and you've got it. So I think that just relying on, Oh, I'm going to continue.

Devin: 33:07

You know, I'm 46 years old. Like, can I contain that? You know, can I continue at this pace when I was 65 creating content in front of the camera, you know, in twenty years? Probably not. So what are things you're building now that you can always rely on if you can't be on camera all the time?

Ant: 33:28

A good friend of mine for many years is much smarter than me and built some very impressive companies, always will tell me this this too shall pass, and that it's both for the good, this too shall pass, and for the bad. Right? So it's kind of like and and I you know, so your to your point, you know, what are you building that that gets you essentially off that hamster wheel? Do you think it's an like, a knowledge problem to solve or a mindset problem, for creators or a bit of both? Like, what what's your perspective on that?

Devin: 34:00

I think it's a bit of both. I think it's a knowledge mindset. What you don't know, you don't know. And then also sometimes it's just like a shift in how you're currently doing things. Like can be challenging because it's not necessarily the creative brain that's working to build the whole brand.

Devin: 34:22

And many of us are the creatives. So it takes sometimes a team or, you know, one other person or right now you have some great tools, I say, with AI that can help. I know we've been pitching like, Ah, it's a great brainstorming tool and it's a great creative tool. There's some other tools that'll help that aren't as creative that kind of help with that mindset. And I think that's the hardest part for creators is that we're just creative and it's all that we can think of.

Devin: 34:53

So building a brand in a business is like I mean, show business is what I started in. Show and a business. And you don't realize I didn't realize until I moved to Hollywood when I was hustling. 8590% of what I did hustling was the business side. And then you're lucky to book a show and then it's like 10% show, but the rest of it is business.

Devin: 35:18

And the same thing is for creators. And I think creators forget that that I still think in the creator economy, 90% of what we do is business, and we don't like it. So we just create more content and stick with what works. And then there becomes a point where you're like, I gotta add some business to it, and it gets hard.

Ant: 35:36

I love that. Maybe we need to start a campaign like we just create our economy sounds too big and other things from other parts of it that will sort itself out, like create a business or something, you know, show business. Right? Like, it's so simple. It's so it's show business.

Ant: 35:51

I I I think you're onto something there. So from, you know, TV to being a creator, is there anything that you would do differently from the get go?

Devin: 36:01

No, because I think it's trial and error if you go back two years. I think did it. And I think for some creators, sometimes just the doing of things is hard. I did it. I tried a few things and it didn't work.

Devin: 36:13

So trial and it sure I wish I had landed on like be funny dad skits, but I wouldn't have landed on that if I didn't try to like have some takeaway or talk about some fashion and maybe I can sleep train my kid. I wouldn't have landed on this if I hadn't gone through that. So I wouldn't have done anything different. I mean, I'm not a dancer. Sure.

Devin: 36:33

It would have been great to have TikTok dance through the pandemic and had a million followers, but that's not me.

Ant: 36:41

I'll know the dancing thing. Because I I I think that experimentation mindset and the execution and doing is is one of the the greatest thing creators have when they start and to then hold on to that and not lose it as they grow and have something worth protecting and losing to continue to do that.

Devin: 37:04

Right.

Ant: 37:04

So I I love that. Like and then, like, last one. Like, what's next?

Devin: 37:10

Well, what's next is churning chaos into content, being able to teach not just creators, but anyone that wants to create content, because I feel like we're at such an inflection point of, I mentioned earlier, doctors, real estate agents, everyone has to be a content creator. Because I look at somebody like Sirhan. Ryan Sirhan is a huge realtor. He's really a media company that's selling houses or condos in New York. He's building amazing content.

Devin: 37:44

So we're all in some ways finding ways. So taking my skills from as a TV producer and as a creator, helping individuals, eventually doing a podcast I and Joe are doing here, where I'm actually, like I mentioned, hearing some of people's stories. What was their moment? What was their chaos that got them to content or wherever they're at today? And then utilizing my TV skills into these new short form, whether it's vertical, whether it's medium to long form.

Devin: 38:11

And I'm going to find my way back to producing on my own terms, producing my own stuff. And I think that's kind of where it goes. And again, I think 8 to 9 figures, eight to nine revenue sources so I can have an exit strategy would also be exciting. So I've got merchandise coming out soon, a CPG coffee that I'm working on, and I think just continuing to build the whole brand of Devin the dad, turning chaos into content, and then being able to teach folks as well. I had a great time just this past weekend teaching some of my former colleagues how to create content because they're like stuck and can't find work.

Devin: 38:50

But I'm like, you guys have some great skills, either as an editor or as a cook or something and getting people out of their head and realizing that it doesn't have to be perfect. I think traditional media folks, we had, you know, rough cut, fine cut Network one, Network two before it aired. And now you just put it out there. I don't think it has to be as polished. At the beginning, no one's watching it anyways.

Devin: 39:15

You might as well start getting used to it. Maybe your mom watches it, which would be great, but just create that content.

Ant: 39:21

I love it. Devin, the future is bright. Thanks so much for joining me, man. I really appreciate it.

Devin: 39:27

Absolutely. Thank you so much. Create a generation. Look on the mic.