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From LeverNews.com — Lever Time is the flagship podcast from the investigative news outlet The Lever. Hosted by award-winning journalist, Oscar-nominated writer, and Bernie Sanders' 2020 speechwriter David Sirota, Lever Time features exclusive reporting from The Lever’s newsroom, high-profile guest interviews, and expert analysis from the sharpest minds in media and politics.
00:04:13:00 - 00:04:48:01
David Sirota
Hey there and welcome to Leisure Time, the flagship podcast from The Lever, an independent investigative news outlet. I'm your host, David Sirota, on today's show. We're going to be talking about conservative propaganda specifically. Prager University. Do you have a doctorate from Prager University? Are you taking classes at Prager University? Have you heard of Prager University? It's an online advocacy group that portrays itself as a university and that churns out thousands of hours of, quote unquote, educational content with the purpose of advancing conservative ideology and talking points.
00:04:48:11 - 00:05:12:14
David Sirota
But what's most concerning about Prager University is its educational content designed for and specifically targeted at children. And some of it is now being shown in public schools across the country. Today, I'm going to be joined by Josh Olson and Dave Anthony, hosts of the Audit podcast, which you can find it Lever News.com slash audit. It's one of our podcast network affiliates.
00:05:13:01 - 00:05:42:07
David Sirota
Their new season covers Prager University's coursework and how dangerous it's become for America's children. We're going to talk all about that with those hosts for our paid subscribers. We're also always dropping exclusive bonus episodes into our leaver premium podcast feed. Last week, as an example, we shared our extended interview with the leading artificial intelligence expert Max TEGMARK, about the growing debate around artificial intelligence and superintelligence.
00:05:42:07 - 00:06:12:01
David Sirota
And one of the most fascinating and frankly, terrifying discussions I've had in a long time. Coming up next week, two separate interviews, one with Brendan Ballou and the other with Josh Rosner. Both of them have authored new books about the private equity industry. Anyone who reads the levers reporting knows how vast and destructive that industry is. And my interviews with both of them go even deeper on that industry that seems hell bent on controlling every single aspect of the economy and our society.
00:06:12:01 - 00:06:36:08
David Sirota
If you want to understand what private equity really is. Wait for that bonus content in the premium podcast feed. If you want to access our premium content, head over to Lever News.com and click the subscribe button in the top right to become a supporting subscriber. That'll give you access to the clever Premium Podcast feed exclusively live events and all of the in-depth reporting and investigative journalism that we do here at the Lever.
00:06:36:18 - 00:06:53:21
David Sirota
The only way independent media grows and thrives is because of passionate supporters and by word of mouth. So we need all the help we can get to combat the inane bullshit that is corporate media. So go subscribe. It directly funds the work that we do. I'm here as always today with Lever Times producer Frank. What's up? Producer Frank?
00:06:53:21 - 00:07:15:10
Frank Cappello
Not much. David, I got to ask you a question right off the bat. Go for it. Look, you know that I don't care for sports. I don't watch sports. I'm not. It doesn't take up any space in my mind culturally. But I saw you tweeted something about the Denver Nuggets and a mortgage industry billionaire. Can you could you please explain what this connection is?
00:07:15:10 - 00:07:40:20
David Sirota
Yes, Frank. So I'm deep into the Denver Nuggets playoff obsession. The Denver Nuggets are playing the Phenix Suns. I have not liked the Phenix Suns sort of for much of my life because they ultimately got Charles Barkley. The Sixers traded Charles Barkley to the Phenix Suns. So I've loathed the Phenix Suns for a very long time, although I did root for them when they were in the championship because when Barkley was on the team.
00:07:40:20 - 00:07:57:15
David Sirota
But taking Charles Barkley out of Philadelphia was like a heartbreaking experience for me. Now we got the Denver Nuggets. I live in Denver playing the Phenix Suns, and it's tied at as of right now, it's tied two two. Although when this when this comes out, hopefully the Denver Nuggets will be up 3 to 2. But you know what this is?
00:07:57:18 - 00:07:58:22
Frank Cappello
This is the playoffs. This is the.
00:07:58:22 - 00:08:39:08
David Sirota
Playoffs. That's right. Okay, guys. Right. So big thing that happened for those who watched Jokic the Denver Nuggets best player two time MVP in the NBA was going for a ball went out of bounds and he tried to get the ball back and the Phenix Suns owner who is a mortgage billionaire sort of kind of got in Jokic his face and Jokic was trying to get the ball out and Jokic kind of bumped this mortgage billionaire guy and and he flopped like he tried to take an offensive foul from the stands and Jokic got called for a technical foul I mean so so in other words the Suns owner literally drew a technical foul for
00:08:39:08 - 00:09:13:08
David Sirota
his team by flopping and pretending that he had like been you know really hurt by Jokic and I was commenting on social media that you know he hears it wouldn't surprise me if a mortgage billionaire now asks the authorities to give his team the Phenix Suns a bailout by suspending Jokic right because that you know that would be very on brand for a mortgage billionaire but hopefully Jokic does not get suspended and so that's what I was talking about Listen man there are billionaires behind every door in American society certainly in professional sports.
00:09:13:12 - 00:09:37:08
David Sirota
It was really funny when I tweeted that out, some people were like they couldn't process that. There was like a semi. I was tongue in cheek but, but a semi political angle to something that had happened in the game. But that that play was like a huge play a lot of a lot of discussion about whether Jokic was right or the mortgage billionaire was right So listen the Denver Nuggets hopefully when you're listening to this will be up 3 to 2.
00:09:37:22 - 00:09:58:00
David Sirota
Now for those who don't care about professional sports at all. Before we get to our featured interview today about Prager University, I do want to take one more moment to talk about a big story, the cover published last week about so-called greed, deflation. I hope you've read that story. If you haven't, go to Denver News.com and find it.
00:09:58:09 - 00:10:30:17
David Sirota
We're going to have a future episode on this. And for those who don't know what the term reflation means, it was a term that that was manufactured to make fun of the people who were saying a year or two years ago that inflation was being driven not by workers wages, not by government spending on survival aid, but by corporate profiteering pundits across the country were scoffing at that.
00:10:30:17 - 00:10:55:11
David Sirota
You may remember this. We've covered this a bunch. At one point, Jeff Bezos, owner of The Washington Post, founder of Amazon, tweeted out a column from one of his columnists at The Washington Post saying that it was just a conspiracy theory that corporations were using their market power under the guise of inflation to squeeze more profits out of the of the country.
00:10:55:11 - 00:10:57:07
David Sirota
And by raising prices.
00:10:57:07 - 00:11:05:01
Frank Cappello
I still love that. Just like Jeff Bezos being like, look at this interesting article that I found from this newspaper. What what a coincidence.
00:11:05:09 - 00:11:24:23
David Sirota
And I love how he's, like portrayed as some apolitical newspaper owner. You know, the newspaper is just a newspaper. It's not a political weapon. Meanwhile, I'm going to blast out a column that happens to defend, you know, corporate America writ large, potentially Amazon, specifically from the charges that we are using market power to jack up prices on America.
00:11:25:02 - 00:11:56:11
David Sirota
Right. Obviously, a political use of his newspaper. And here's the important point. The story at Lever News this week shows that the assertions that inflation doesn't have to do with corporate profiteering, There's overwhelming data now that shows that that's bullshit, that in fact, that's what is driving inflation and that that shouldn't be surprising. We've lived through an era of lax antitrust enforcement, so companies have gotten bigger and bigger.
00:11:56:18 - 00:12:22:18
David Sirota
They control more and more market power in their markets. So they are in a position to raise prices and not fear as much competition undercutting their prices. So this is a very logical fact based, a theory of what's going on. It's not even a theory. It is what's going on. And you don't have to believe me. It was recognized by a Federal Reserve study.
00:12:23:02 - 00:12:50:15
David Sirota
It was recognized by a top economist at UBS, a giant megabank, not exactly a super lefty organization. It's been recognized by European Central bankers. And now even Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal. So in other words, pundits touted this idea that it was really workers wages and government spending that was creating the inflation problem. It wasn't corporate profiteering. And now all the evidence shows actually it was corporate profiteering.
00:12:50:16 - 00:13:28:22
David Sirota
Now, you may be asking, All right, Sirota, why is this a problem? Who cares? Like, okay, so like the pundits are wrong. Well, because those pundits created a fake narrative that ended up creating the conditions for very real policies. This is like the economic version of the WMD lies from the Iraq war. The narrative provided government officials justification to cut off pandemic aid, to block new spending on survival aid, the people to abandon any push for a minimum wage increase and to raise interest rates with the express goal.
00:13:29:08 - 00:14:05:13
David Sirota
In the words of the Federal Reserve chairman of driving down workers wages. So the result of that creation of a narrative and which justified those policies is a sharp increase in the number of Americans who can't afford to pay their bills like this. This is why when we cover pundit lies at the lever, we do it not just because it's fun to sort of poke holes in people's lies, but because those lies help create the discourse conditions for very real policies.
00:14:05:13 - 00:14:18:09
David Sirota
And in this case, the evidence is absolutely clear. Now, not surprisingly, none of these pundits have apologized. Didn't you find that funny in our story, Frank, that just none of them would apologize or admit that they were wrong in the face of all this evidence?
00:14:18:19 - 00:14:39:05
Frank Cappello
Yeah, I don't know if I would call it funny. I would call it like a you know, they can't break the narrative because it would discredit everything that they do. It discredit them like their entire body of work, their entire persona as a journalist or a pundit. So to to acknowledge it whatsoever, what I think give, you know, their readers or their audience, the green flag to be like, you know what?
00:14:39:05 - 00:14:42:21
Frank Cappello
Actually, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, and maybe you guys should listen to me anymore.
00:14:42:21 - 00:15:11:14
David Sirota
Well, and that's the thing. It's important to remember, and you can see this in our story that these pundits and whether it was Larry Summers or the Washington Post editorial board or whoever else that we document in there, Matt Iglesias and another example. They were just like, well, look, yeah, corporate profits are only a little piece of inflation or smaller piece or there are only one factor, the one that Bezos tweeted out, I think, or at least the one at the Washington Post that got a lot of attention was like, you're a conspiracy theorist.
00:15:12:02 - 00:15:34:00
David Sirota
If you even suggest that corporate profiteering is part of the inflation problem, like it wasn't like a measured, you know, we need to take a full look at this thing. It was like anybody who says corporate profiteering has anything to do with the conflict with inflation is an idiot, is a conspiracy theory should never be listened to again.
00:15:34:00 - 00:15:54:20
David Sirota
And so they created a discourse in which even questioning that orthodoxy was simply not allowed. And it's a discourse, as you suggest, that you can't really easily back off of without completely discrediting yourself. You can't run out there and say it's a conspiracy theory to say these things, and then all the data comes in shows actually that's true.
00:15:55:15 - 00:16:17:21
David Sirota
What was said was exactly true and you were wrong. And then be like, Well, I guess I got it wrong because because they dug in so hard at the beginning. So I want everybody if you can go check out our story on this at 11 News.com, we're going to be talking to a couple of experts on this and in an episode in the future about this, because it really is so important and it's so important to the to the larger economic discourse in this country.
00:16:18:05 - 00:16:51:12
David Sirota
The last thing I'll say about this is it's good news that that data is now so explicit, because I think at this point it is completely undeniable. And the hope is, is that in it being undeniable, we can get better policies. Okay, We're going to stop there because we should get to our main interview, our main interview today about Prager University, one of the most powerful weapons of conservative propaganda in the entire country that is kind of operating slightly under the radar, but with huge, huge impact.
00:16:51:12 - 00:17:12:23
David Sirota
We're going to talk to the hosts of the Audit podcast who have been investigating and deep diving on that propaganda, how it works and what you should know about it. But first, let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Levi. Time for our main interview today. We're going to be talking about the massive conservative propaganda machine known as Prager University.
00:17:13:11 - 00:17:44:20
David Sirota
If you spend any time online, especially on YouTube or Facebook, you've probably seen some of Prager University's video content. It usually starts with someone telling you that radical left wing socialists and communists are planning on destroying America and taking away your freedoms. Then they'll justify that perspective by presenting wildly inaccurate and whitewashed information. To be fair, Prager University's videos are technically well-produced.
00:17:44:20 - 00:18:23:09
David Sirota
They look super professional, which lends some air of credibility to the insane bullshit that they are dumping into the discourse. And while you may have shrugged off their content, is just another right wing outlet in an already giant ocean of insane bullshit. There's something that sets Prager University apart that is uniquely disturbing. Prager University produces some of the most successful children's educational content on the Internet video specifically targeted towards children and their parents with the goal of indoctrinating kids from a very young age.
00:18:24:05 - 00:18:49:06
David Sirota
And look, you may even think, look, I don't agree with Prager University's politics, but a parent has every right to teach their kids whatever they want. But there's something even more nefarious happening. Prager University videos are now apparently finding their way into the American educational system, with teachers across the country using Prager University's videos in their classrooms with or without the consent of students and their parents.
00:18:49:23 - 00:19:17:15
David Sirota
To break down everything you need to know about Prager University, I'm now going to be joined by Josh Olson and Dave Anthony, the two hosts of the audit podcast, which is produced here at the Leavers Podcast Network. Josh and Dave, along with their roster of special guests, have been watching hours and hours of Prager University videos and have been digging into how this propaganda machine started, where it gets its money from and how it's attempting to indoctrinate America's children.
00:19:19:14 - 00:19:20:21
David Sirota
Hey, Josh. Hey, Dave, How you guys doing?
00:19:22:00 - 00:19:27:02
Josh Olson
We're you know, we've been watching hundreds of hours of Prager U videos, so we're kind of suicidal.
00:19:27:04 - 00:19:53:00
David Sirota
I know. I'm, like, surprised you can respond coherently. You're not. You're I have this, like, clockwork orange view of you. Like you would like your eyes open pretty much watching. Know Dennis Prager for hours and hours and hours. And that's what you're what you're here to talk about. That's what season three of the audit is. For those who don't know, the audit is the podcast from from Josh and Dave, the audit audits classes.
00:19:53:06 - 00:20:21:22
David Sirota
And they took a series of classes at Prager University, auditing that coursework. Mike Mike Trying not to laugh as I call it, coursework. I would, I would imagine most of our listeners have a maybe a general idea of what Prager University is, but for I guess for anyone who doesn't know what Prager University is, what is it? Is it an accredited university?
00:20:21:22 - 00:20:35:13
David Sirota
Can you get a degree there? You know, can you get a doctorate? Or why did you guys we'll start with Josh. Why did you guys feel it was necessary to audit Prager University classes for this season of the audit?
00:20:36:04 - 00:20:55:00
Josh Olson
I want to tell our audience, because I lost a bet to you and you made us. But no, I should start because Dave's the one who kind of took it to the next level. Like I was aware of Dennis Prager for years as a right wing radio talk show host in Los Angeles, and he used this kind of Talmudic logic.
00:20:55:00 - 00:21:12:17
Josh Olson
He would he would claim, I think, to sort out problems and, you know, apply apply that wisdom to various issues and come to the conclusion that, you know, homeless people need to be exterminated or whatever, you know, issue. He was coming out on. And I kind of lost track of him. And then I noticed this Prager u thing, and I don't even know if I ever watched a video.
00:21:12:17 - 00:21:32:06
Josh Olson
It looked kind of seedy and fly by night. And every now and then someone would post something on Facebook or Twitter, and I never really watch them. And I can't remember how they first came up was a conversation with Dave. And Dave was like, No, they're huge. You have no idea the voice he takes out to say, I know that it was Dennis Prager and a friend of his was a TV writer.
00:21:33:05 - 00:21:45:01
Josh Olson
Prager, I guess, first wanted to start an actual university in this guy was like, No, it's better. Let's do this online thing. But yeah, but Dave was the one who kind of you were you were more aware of Prager u than I was initially.
00:21:45:06 - 00:22:15:00
Dave Anthony
Well, it's a it's a propaganda tool for the the rich right wing guys to to tell people how to think. I mean, that's simply it is they're just they're just, you know, forming brains the way they want them, wanted to form out there. And the messages are vile. They're very pro fossil fuel. It's everything that's the opposite of what a just decent human being should think, essentially.
00:22:15:05 - 00:22:20:07
Dave Anthony
But it's it's it's it's one of the best propaganda tools going in America.
00:22:20:09 - 00:22:27:23
Josh Olson
Apparently. Daily Wire and Prager University are among the largest sources of climate science misinformation in the world.
00:22:28:00 - 00:22:53:10
Dave Anthony
Yes, that's how I'm being a huge environmentalist. That's how I first realized how how bad they are, because the arguments that I would see being made, I couldn't figure out how they were so dumb and where they were coming from. And then I saw a list of the top platforms, I guess companies, media companies, whatever, on on Facebook and Prager U was really high up there.
00:22:53:23 - 00:23:19:14
Dave Anthony
And so I watched a few of their fossil fuel theories and I was like, oh, And then I started just reading about them. And they their reaches is extraordinary. And, and, and it's very, very easy to send your uncle or brother or whoever a five minute video that they'll watch. That's why I think it's probably worse than Fox News and everything else, because people are just like, oh, check this out.
00:23:19:14 - 00:23:23:04
Dave Anthony
Here's this thing about trans people and it's just abhorrent.
00:23:23:08 - 00:23:34:02
David Sirota
And here's here's the thing. I think what's it is the reach. But I think with Dennis Prager and I say this, having once debated him here in person in Denver. Oh, that.
00:23:34:07 - 00:23:34:16
Dave Anthony
Wow.
00:23:34:19 - 00:23:59:11
David Sirota
Prager fandom. This is ten, 15 years ago. I was on the radio here in Denver. They invited me to be a sort of you know, they thought it would be like a punching bag at a at a at a debate. And I decided to do it. And the thing I think about him and the reason why it has such reach is because it doesn't purport to be like screaming in your face.
00:23:59:16 - 00:24:27:17
David Sirota
Right. It doesn't purport to be it purports to be like very intellectual. Right. Like if it has this, it's in this weird space where it's flying under the kind of corporate media radar. But the reason I think it gets distributed so much is because it's like we're going to give you seemingly super intelligent intellectual arguments that granted are not based in any fact.
00:24:28:19 - 00:25:04:18
David Sirota
And so it's confirmation bias for conservatives with a patina of intellectual heft. Right. Dennis Prager, when you meet him, thinks he's a really smart person. Oh, God. He thinks he's a brilliant person. He doesn't just think he's conservative or driven by his ideology. He believes and his followers believe that he is like super intelligent, that he is the conservative voice who is not just a fire breathing ideology, but who's actually making exquisite intellectual arguments.
00:25:04:22 - 00:25:06:16
David Sirota
Now, nothing could be further from the truth.
00:25:06:22 - 00:25:15:03
Josh Olson
I mean, David, I know you believe that conservatives tend towards racism, but what would you say if I told you the Democrats started the Ku Klux Klan?
00:25:16:04 - 00:25:18:03
Dave Anthony
Yes, that's exactly right.
00:25:18:05 - 00:25:29:23
David Sirota
Right. Like, boom, Wow. What a what an amazing revelation that there are racists in both parties. What are they? Wow, you're such a genius, Dennis Prager. Yeah.
00:25:30:00 - 00:25:46:19
Josh Olson
And that's that is one of their big ones. One of their other big ones. Like, if you ask them, Martin Luther King did exactly one thing in his life and he said he would like to be judged by the content of his character and that that was it. He was at heart one of us. He was a.
00:25:46:19 - 00:26:17:06
David Sirota
Conservative. But that the thing is, is that we scoff at that. We laugh at that because it's so insane. But what you're saying is, is that there is a huge audience out there that is eating this stuff up and believing it. So I guess I want to turn to the to the audit here. So who are some of the guests you're having on this season of the audit to meticulously go through how this propaganda system works?
00:26:17:06 - 00:26:22:17
David Sirota
And you've already done the podcast, so give us a couple of the highlights people should be should be looking for.
00:26:22:20 - 00:26:34:09
Josh Olson
Yeah, I mean, we've we brought in, as you say, the stuff is kind of ridiculous and it feels ridiculous. You know, we're bringing in people who are genuine experts and topics and then forcing them to watch these incredibly stupid videos.
00:26:34:09 - 00:26:35:22
David Sirota
And they must hate you. They must like.
00:26:35:23 - 00:26:59:13
Josh Olson
You know, they seem to enjoy it for some reason. You know, we kicked off with Daniel Bester, who's a professor of history and foreign affairs, was an adviser of the Bernie Sanders campaign to talk about history and foreign affairs. We just did. Jared Sexton, who's a historian, talking about the founding Fathers. Professor Richard Wolff joined us for an upcoming one in which we break down videos on leftism.
00:27:00:03 - 00:27:17:09
Josh Olson
We've got a couple of surprises we want to we want to say for folks, you know, the idea is to take people who actually really do know exactly what they're talking about and are kind of unassailable on that and force them to hear this stuff and and take it on. And also, in the middle of it, we have a couple of episodes where because it gets to be too much.
00:27:17:19 - 00:27:25:07
Josh Olson
We brought in friends who are kind of, you know, politically aware but also very funny and just sprung videos on them that they had no idea what was coming. And then the.
00:27:25:07 - 00:27:56:16
David Sirota
Reactions like spontaneous reaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so just, just as a, as a let's, let's put some meat on the bones here like Dave what, what are some of the central theses that the hypothesis that Prager University Dennis Prager puts forward. What are some of the founding kind of arguments and principles that is being pumped with a giant mass bilge pump into the American discourse?
00:27:56:17 - 00:28:05:09
Dave Anthony
I would say the biggest one is that liberals are the real racists. I think that's they're the one they always kind of come back to.
00:28:05:11 - 00:28:33:02
David Sirota
Which I should I should interject and say that one has made a resurgence of late. Yes. With the insistence that if you're mad at Clarence Thomas for getting billionaire gifts while issuing rulings that help billionaires, that must mean you are a virulent racist. I mean, Senator Mike Lee, a former Sam Alito clerk on the Supreme Court, Utah Republican, has been just pumping this.
00:28:33:02 - 00:28:50:14
David Sirota
Ted Cruz has has said this. Yeah, like you're a racist if you think Clarence Thomas shouldn't be corrupt. But what you're saying is, is that part of the founding mission for this argument, this ridiculous argument, part of why conservatives are apparently receptive to this, is because people like Dennis Prager have been priming that pump forever.
00:28:50:14 - 00:29:13:00
Dave Anthony
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why the CRT, you know, anti that whole movement in schools is happening. It's because that that counteracts everything that people like Prager out there are preaching like they're preaching just historical nonsense. So they they're going to try to stop the actual history from being taught in schools. Even though CRT is not being taught in schools.
00:29:13:02 - 00:29:24:04
Josh Olson
You, Prager, will acknowledge that that, you know, the founding fathers, some of them owned slaves. But he'll also tell you you shouldn't judge people by today's standards and that a lot of the people who owned slaves were actually very good people.
00:29:24:04 - 00:29:40:09
Dave Anthony
Yes, there's there's a lot of that. They're the founding father. Worship is, of course, what you'd expect. And they do go to that a lot. There's a lot of founding father stuff. There's also just a ton of pro-corporate that they are massively funded by fossil fuel companies.
00:29:40:14 - 00:29:47:15
David Sirota
Well, let's let's let's talk a little bit about that. Know, what do we know about who was funding the Dennis Prager empire?
00:29:47:15 - 00:30:11:10
Josh Olson
Do I think the. Yeah, there's the two brothers, Dan and Farris Wilks, who are fracking billionaires, kind of religious, eccentric, shall we say. And they've pumped millions and millions and millions of dollars into Prager u primarily to pay for videos, you know, denying climate change. That's kind of the biggest source right now. But they get a lot of donations as well from listeners.
00:30:12:00 - 00:30:34:19
David Sirota
I presume. Prager University is one of the sources and promoters of the idea that the Earth has always warmed to. And there's been cycles. And I mean, I know these are you know, right, there's been cycles and the temperature and the earth has always warmed. And please trust, you know, Dennis Prager, a bloviating moron on a mike, don't trust every scientist in the world, right?
00:30:34:19 - 00:30:39:07
David Sirota
This is where this is. This is a foundational sort of amplifier of that.
00:30:39:07 - 00:31:01:07
Dave Anthony
I assume. Yeah, it's it's big on on that. And and it's worse. I mean, they just have videos that are just, just straight up. Fossil fuels are better for us than than renewables. There's a guy named Alex Epstein, which I, you know, tried to do a deep dive on, but basically he's just a guy that got out of college, lives in San Diego, and started what he calls a think tank.
00:31:01:07 - 00:31:21:06
Dave Anthony
But it was just for him to do videos like this and and then pop on news shows. And and Prager started giving him tons of money to just come out and say, fossil fuels are great and you feel like you're watching, you know, some sort of experts on the issue. But it's just some it's just some idiot who lives in San Diego who decided to be pro fossil fuels.
00:31:21:22 - 00:31:41:14
Dave Anthony
And there's not a lot of people that are going to do that. I mean, really strongly pro fossil fuels did. That's just straight up the Wilks brothers giving a guy money, allowing him to make a decent living by making straight up propaganda for their company. And then he gets invited on, you know, news shows because he's now an authority voice on this stuff.
00:31:41:17 - 00:32:10:16
David Sirota
I want to go into the into how Prager University targets parents and even children because that that that actually I you know, I knew about Dennis Prager and I knew I knew about kind of the standard issue bullshit that the right promotes. But the propaganda targeting of parents and children is something that I, I didn't know, certainly at the at the level that I now know, having listened to some of the the audit on this.
00:32:11:06 - 00:32:17:12
David Sirota
Can we talk a little bit about about that and how specific it is and how they actually do that?
00:32:17:15 - 00:32:47:05
Dave Anthony
There's a article in The American Prospect by Amelia Pollard from 2021 that I think is the first one that I found and made me aware of how they're going after schools. But in it, she notes that Prager U began targeting children in campaign ads on Facebook and YouTube. So they were going after Gen Z, and parents had no idea that that was happening.
00:32:47:18 - 00:33:14:21
Dave Anthony
And then through that, they also had they set up like an educational organization, wing sort of operation through Prager U to get it into teachers hands. So find those right wing teachers, get these videos in front of kids. And it's and it's been effective. It's not it's not a part of curriculum. But if you have a right wing teacher, he's going to put this up in a classroom if he can get away with it.
00:33:14:21 - 00:33:17:23
Dave Anthony
And so that's how they're getting into the schools and that's very effective.
00:33:18:03 - 00:33:25:01
David Sirota
Are you saying it's it's in some ways designed for teachers to use in like public schools?
00:33:25:09 - 00:33:25:22
Dave Anthony
Absolutely.
00:33:25:22 - 00:33:48:15
Josh Olson
Yeah. And that's where it would only have any week because you take a look especially the kids videos this the the they hired a woman a little while back named Jill Simonian who's a big school choice, quote unquote, advocate heeds critical race theory, hates diversity equity inclusion programs. And she's in charge of their kids programing. And you look at this stuff and it's subpar, even by Prager standards.
00:33:48:15 - 00:34:15:00
Josh Olson
I mean, they're just terrible, terrible, terrible shows. Probably the worst. We haven't gotten into too much on the show because it's mostly visual is a show that she hosts called Craft Free. We did put together a little video that we put out last week on Twitter where she builds, you know, it's like crafts for kids, but they make fighter jets out of paper planes and they build Israel's Iron Dome and talk about how important self-defense is.
00:34:15:06 - 00:34:49:22
PragerU Video
Today, we're making a DIY rocket blaster to learn about one of the world's most amazing inventions that keeps people safe. Israel's Iron Dome. It's a high tech defense system that protects millions of people from attacks. It uses rockets to destroy enemy rockets in the sky before they fall on cities in Israel and other places. The Iron Dome works day and night in hot and cold weather, and it doesn't hurt anyone, even the enemy that's attacking.
00:34:50:04 - 00:34:52:16
PragerU Video
There's nothing else like it on earth.
00:34:53:14 - 00:35:13:19
Josh Olson
It's awful, awful stuff. She has all video that our parents like. You know, once your kids see this, they're not going to want to watch Disney anymore and they'll actually learn something. And there's no way any child is watching this voluntarily going, Oh, wow, cool. No way. But if you sit in a classroom and some authority figure is like, now you're going to watch this, it's going to have some weight.
00:35:14:00 - 00:35:34:08
Dave Anthony
And teeth that in 2020 they started an initiative called Prep, which is an educational program. And like 6000 teachers and parents signed up. You give a donation and then that gives you program materials. And there's a private Facebook group where you can all talk and try to push it into schools.
00:35:34:12 - 00:36:28:17
David Sirota
I presume that this is part of, for instance, the movement that's seen as kind of spontaneous as opposed to directed the movement to remove down play and suppress education on things like climate change in the schools. I mean, just this past week there was this headline, Utah State Board of Education Considers Removing Climate Change From Curriculum Now. What's incredible about that in particular is that the Great Salt Lake is quite literally drying up, in part because of climate change, which could create one of the biggest toxic ecosystems in the entire world and arsenic laced dust in that in the biggest city in that state.
00:36:28:17 - 00:36:53:03
David Sirota
And that state is now considering removing climate change from its its curriculum. And I have to believe that part of the, I guess, grassroots push for this has to do with the Prager University bilge pump pumping the idea that climate change isn't happening, it's not real science. Therefore, it shouldn't be taught in schools like all of these things are connected, right?
00:36:53:09 - 00:37:18:18
Dave Anthony
Yeah. Yeah, they're completely connected. This is that's where you go back to the Wilkes voters. This is rich people getting their wishes by using a a a guy who's an expert in communication. I mean, Prager, you know, you're not on radio for as long as he is without without being very good at what you're doing. And they're using that guy to set up new media and use the new landscape to push it out to these people.
00:37:18:18 - 00:37:37:14
Dave Anthony
And it's incredibly effective. And and I watch what they're doing. I see what they're doing. And you watch because it's always with the conservatives. They're mad about what they're doing. Right. And they're their big push back in schools of what are they teaching, what are they doing? It's because this is what they're doing. They're pushing this stuff in there.
00:37:37:16 - 00:38:15:07
David Sirota
So people who are listening to this will wonder, well, why do I want to listen to this? Even if you guys are critiquing it and showing how how bad it is? I guess the question might be not only why did you guys choose this for this series, this this season of the of the audit. But what you hope to come out of this, I mean is is part of it that this is just being pumped into the discourse unchallenged and there needs to be some sort of response like like what is the answer to to this kind of stuff?
00:38:15:15 - 00:38:34:17
David Sirota
Because I know it ends up being in the free speech debate. Oh, we got to shut down speech, misinformation, you know, censor the Internet. That's what I'm sure that's what Dennis Prager would say. You know, this is just part of the left's attempt to, like, censor me or whatever, You know, I mean, they always can. And by the way, I know I'm off on a tangent here, but the right always likes to say, oh, we believe we believe in free speech.
00:38:34:19 - 00:38:54:16
David Sirota
Then you criticize their speech and they say you're trying it, you're trying to censor me. It's like, no, bro, Like when free speech means you say something stupid and I have the free speech right to say what you're saying is stupid and show how stupid it is with the actual facts. But but, but to the to the question, what do you hope to come out of of this kind of endeavor?
00:38:54:17 - 00:38:59:12
David Sirota
Like, why should people listen to the audit and subject themselves to that content?
00:39:01:01 - 00:39:17:21
Dave Anthony
I think I think you need to know what you're facing. And I and I a particularly in our environment, you know, if you're worried about misinformation, you know, coming out of Trump or whoever else, well, guess what this is? These are the people that are the building blocks of it all. Like they they're undermining the education of our kids.
00:39:17:21 - 00:39:39:15
Dave Anthony
And they're making I'm sorry, but this I say if you go to Prager University, you get it's the only degree you can get in America that makes you dumber. So so people need to know when someone is talking about Prager U or, you know, when they heard a video that said this how just how dumb and bereft of facts it is.
00:39:39:22 - 00:39:55:03
Dave Anthony
But more importantly, on top of that, the real reason for me for prejudice is I'm a dad and I have a 13 year old kid and I know what these people are doing because I am one of the guys that goes down the school boards and counteracts the crazy fascist guy who just said something about communism and blah, blah, blah.
00:39:56:02 - 00:40:18:19
Dave Anthony
But we need to start going to school boards and saying, this can't be in schools and here's why. Here's some videos. Just take like five videos and say, Here's here's some videos and here's what they say and then say, this cannot be in our schools just like the right wing is doing with CRT, which is actually not in our schools.
00:40:19:01 - 00:40:26:01
Dave Anthony
They've invented a fake boogeyman, but they're really doing this. So parents need to take charge.
00:40:26:06 - 00:40:54:09
David Sirota
You mentioned critical race theory. Let's talk a little bit about that, because Dennis Prager, I'm sure, I presume, is obsessed with critical race theory. Why don't we why don't we just take a moment to explain in layman's terms what is critical race theory and what kind of nonsense does Dennis Prager and Prager University put out there about critical race theory?
00:40:54:10 - 00:41:15:14
Dave Anthony
Well, critical race theory. So people first need to know it's a it's a college and above sort of thing you would learn about. It's never been in any theory flow decades. Yeah, it's and it's been around forever but it's never been below taught below that level. But it's it's it's a way to to learn the the systematic racism that exists within America.
00:41:15:15 - 00:41:26:00
Dave Anthony
It explains it it breaks it down and helps you understand from the beginning of the country, you know, the 1600s all the way up till now, how we got here, what happened?
00:41:26:03 - 00:41:46:22
Josh Olson
Nobody even even broader than that. I mean, what it is, is and they they play on this. They play on people's dopey grasp of words. It's not they see critical and they play on that. It's critical of America. No, it's applying a critical eye to history. And one of the things that comes out of that is you start to realize that like, oh, yeah, there's kind of a racist to this country.
00:41:47:06 - 00:42:03:06
Josh Olson
But they focus on that one aspect of critical race theory, and they know that it doesn't take much to make people feel personally attacked by it. And and then they just twist the knife and say, we have state your kids are being made to feel bad about who they are because they're being told that they're evil. It's like, no, they're not.
00:42:03:06 - 00:42:15:09
Josh Olson
It's it's I learned this stuff. I mean, I learned history. High school. It was a fairly progressive school and it did not make me feel bad about myself. It made me feel bad for the way this country treated people over the centuries.
00:42:15:11 - 00:42:55:00
David Sirota
And I also think, like you can acknowledge the the bad stuff of the past. It doesn't mean that you personally did it. It means that you need to learn from that and make your country better. I mean, ultimately, I actually think all of this goes to something deeper and core for conservatives, which is any attempt to create a more perfect union is equated with a lack of patriotism and an alleged hatred of the country.
00:42:55:14 - 00:43:30:07
David Sirota
And what's incredible about this is that, again, the idea of making a more perfect union about this country being a project to continue to improve the conservative ideology is fundamentally hostile to that. Most Ameri can notion. And I think that's that bleeds through on everything. Right like make America Great Again even that is like trying to improve things beyond what America once was.
00:43:30:11 - 00:43:53:21
David Sirota
Because like America 40, 50, 60 years ago wasn't apartheid state, right? Like the Jim Crow laws, like it was a practice like the South, as if one example was an apartheid state, like resurrecting that. That's not part of the project of a more perfect union, although maybe what, maybe you go even darker. Maybe that is the project for considers.
00:43:53:21 - 00:43:54:09
Dave Anthony
The project.
00:43:54:09 - 00:43:58:18
David Sirota
Of a more perfect union is to go all the way back to that.
00:43:58:22 - 00:44:28:08
Josh Olson
Yeah and there is there is a streak and Prager's graded finding you know he was deeply involved with with think you know helping Larry Elder form a career in radio back in the day and he's still doing stuff like this he's got right now there's a woman who's kind of one of their rising stars. She hosts her own show and she does a lot of the videos are her name is a Marla, A.B. with Why It's an Act, came out the other day and he calls her bizarro, as in the bizarro Briahna Joy Gray.
00:44:28:23 - 00:44:54:16
Josh Olson
And she's supposedly she's all these people. She was like a progressive activist. She says she has a Black Lives Matter tattoo, but she never shows it. And then she saw three or four Dennis Prager videos and she realized how racist black people were and they drag her out. I was just watching. I got 10 minutes into it and I had to stop her New one today is titled Is Jordan really the new George Floyd.
00:44:55:07 - 00:45:19:01
Josh Olson
And and of course, George Floyd is like for them is an example of how fraudulent deceptive the left is because I don't know. I guess he had a coming. Yeah, he was much like Jordan. He had a coming. And so rather than if Dennis Prager sat there and did this stuff, he would look like what it was. But they have this attractive young black woman with tattoos is like, Hey, we're all in it together and all wonderful.
00:45:19:01 - 00:45:23:22
Josh Olson
And we're trying to like an, Oh my gosh, you know, it's awful what happened to this guy. But he had it coming.
00:45:24:04 - 00:45:47:00
David Sirota
Here's here's here's my, my, my like, final question about Dennis Prager, which is seems to me Dennis Prager is the man is one version of the man with a thousand faces that if it's not Dennis Prager, it's some other Dennis Prager. There's a Dennis Prager. There's always going to be a Dennis Prager, right? There's always going to be that person has been in our history forever.
00:45:47:00 - 00:45:49:20
David Sirota
It's been not just our history. It's been in human history.
00:45:49:20 - 00:45:50:14
Josh Olson
Yep. Yeah.
00:45:50:21 - 00:46:35:18
David Sirota
Forever. So I think the ultimate question then becomes in respecting the idea that we free speech is the First Amendment is good and necessary and understanding that there will always be that huckster. Hey abusing the First Amendment to pump bile and bilge and bullshit into the discourse, then what does a future look like in which we know those things will exist but the outcomes are better or at least the political power of of that nonsense is lessened.
00:46:35:18 - 00:46:52:15
David Sirota
Like what is a vision of the of a realistic vision of the future where Dennis Prager still has his First Amendment rights to do all this stuff, but it is much less politically powerful. I mean, is that is that a reality or is that or, you know, is that just impossible?
00:46:52:15 - 00:47:19:02
Dave Anthony
I think we're living through a time that's similar to when the printing press came out and then there was all, you know, the whole world was was aflame for a while because people who hadn't been getting information saw something, getting information. We're living there now again. But I think watching all this stuff and seeing how the younger generations act, this is all geared toward older people and the younger people are not buying it.
00:47:19:12 - 00:47:39:02
Dave Anthony
And they have they have a very, very accepting generation. You know, I watched my son go through it. And I think it's I think it's it's just youth. Youth comes along. There's no old people. All that stuff is crazy. And you just have to wait for time to go by and more stuff will be accepted on that level.
00:47:39:02 - 00:47:52:22
Dave Anthony
And the other level, man, we if we've really got to watch out for the control they can have over us through, you know, all the spying and everything else they can do with technology. Like that's a genuine concern that I had don't have an answer for.
00:47:53:05 - 00:48:25:21
David Sirota
Well, I think you I hope you are right about younger people, that younger people that the younger generation is a little bit more media literate, has a more finely tuned bullshit detector, in addition to the fact that the younger generation is not as receptive to right wing corporate propaganda. Although I got to believe they'll be some young version of Dennis Prager who will say, Well, that's well.
00:48:25:21 - 00:48:41:03
Josh Olson
They're already on his channel. But the thing I mean, the thing to, you know, that we're not hitting that we need to because I think part of what we're doing is trying to shine a light on these. And, you know, there's a lot of schools that are showing them knowingly, but there's probably places we know there's places where people are quite aware that these are being shown.
00:48:41:03 - 00:49:03:04
Josh Olson
And if we can get people and parents to go, Hey, wait a minute, stop showing this shit and my kids will have done something. But much further beyond that, you want a solution, All the things you're talking about are completely true. Where's the opposition to the where is If you're going to talk about organizational party politics, where is a party that stands in opposition to all those conservative ideals that that are destroying us because we don't have one?
00:49:03:13 - 00:49:05:15
Josh Olson
We have a right and we have a center?
00:49:05:15 - 00:49:40:11
David Sirota
Well, I mean, we've got the Washington generals. We've got the Washington generals going up against the Harlem Globetrotters of Evil. And then, you know, that's why that's in part why we're there, why we are where we are as well. Well, that's why everyone has to listen to the audit to really understand how powerful a propaganda system this is, to really understand that in your local community, in your local, at the school level and the like, where some of this extremism is coming from to be aware of it so that you can call it out and prevent it from getting into your school system.
00:49:40:22 - 00:49:47:06
Dave Anthony
Can I just say one thing? The best way to counteract this is to massively tax billionaires.
00:49:47:15 - 00:49:48:13
David Sirota
Why do you say that?
00:49:48:18 - 00:50:07:17
Dave Anthony
Because that's who's giving them so much of their money. You know, I looked at one guy who's got like $900 million of Mormon guy, conservative. This is one thing. They just extra money lying around and they get to do this with it instead of us using it to benefit society. This is what they're doing, making propaganda to undermine us and create lies.
00:50:07:18 - 00:50:14:03
Josh Olson
Oh, yeah. But we should we mention the words have not been said. Praying for you is nonprofit, so these deductions are tax deductible.
00:50:14:10 - 00:50:49:09
David Sirota
I can't believe I can't believe we buried that lead. But just yet, worth saying again. Yeah, that Dennis Prager, who rails on socialism, talks about the free market, you know, up from the bootstraps like right. All that horseshit that he is putting out there America is a completely free enterprise situation. Dennis Prager's organization gets a massive tax write off that regular normal, everyday people, everyday companies do not get.
00:50:49:14 - 00:51:03:21
David Sirota
Dennis Prager gets the Prager University in being organized is like that gets a massive tax write off some would argue that is a tax subsidy to pump this bilge into the system. It's really.
00:51:04:08 - 00:51:04:20
Josh Olson
Start over.
00:51:05:07 - 00:51:35:11
David Sirota
I mean I mean honestly like that is the most America fuck yeah. Part of this entire structure. Yeah completely that really that's really really something Josh Olson and Dave Anthony, they are the hosts of the audit. You can find it at Lever News.com slash audit again that's lever News.com slash audit their current their third season. The current season is looking at Prager University, a powerful force in American politics.
00:51:35:16 - 00:51:40:04
David Sirota
Go subscribe to the audit right now. Josh Dave, thanks so much for taking time today.
00:51:40:10 - 00:51:41:01
Josh Olson
I say one thing.
00:51:41:13 - 00:51:41:23
David Sirota
Yeah, go ahead.
00:51:41:23 - 00:51:46:09
Josh Olson
It's the third time we've done something awful. I was like, Next season we're just going to watch Deadwood.
00:51:48:23 - 00:51:50:10
David Sirota
You're going to audit Deadwood.
00:51:50:18 - 00:51:52:03
Josh Olson
The greatest TV show in the history.
00:51:52:12 - 00:52:17:19
David Sirota
There you go. There you go. Thanks, guys. That's it for today's show. As a reminder, our paid subscribers who get leisure time premium, you get to hear next week's bonus episode. My interviews with Brendan Belew, author of the new book Plunder Private Equity Plan to Pillage America, and an interview with Josh Rosner, coauthor of the book These Are the Plunderers How Private Equity Runs and Wrecks America.
00:52:18:03 - 00:52:40:09
David Sirota
This is a jam packed bonus episode. If you want to know anything and everything about private equity, this is it. And you do want to know that because private equity is behind almost everything in America. Now, Brendon and Josh break down everything you've ever wanted to know about this industry again, which is arguably one of the most destructive industries in the entire American economy.
00:52:40:19 - 00:53:02:12
David Sirota
So listen till ever time premium, just head over to Lever News.com to become a supporting subscriber. When You do you get access to all delivers premium content, including our weekly newsletters and our live events and that's all for just eight bucks a month or 70 bucks for the year. One last favor. Please be sure to like, subscribe and write a review for lever time on your favorite podcast app.
00:53:02:16 - 00:53:22:00
David Sirota
The app you are listening to right now. Take 10 seconds and give us a positive review in that app and make sure to check out all of the incredible reporting our team has been doing over at Lever News.com. Until time. I'm David Sirota. Rock the Boat Every Time podcast is a production of the Lever and the Lever Podcast Network.
00:53:22:04 - 00:53:28:19
David Sirota
It's hosted by me David Sirota, our producer is Frank Cappello, with help from the Levers lead producer Jared Zhiqiang, mayor.