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Core values guard the soul of your organization, and if you don’t take them seriously, you’ll be less efficient and effective. In this episode, Alex and Ben discuss the process of developing core values and address some common misconceptions about why values are important and how to select them. They also break down each of Path for Growth’s 5 core values and explain how they manifest in the daily operation of the business.
Information isn’t the gap between failure and success—action is. Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching helps you create a plan and execute on what matters most for your business. Apply today at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Episode Recap:
- Core values guard the soul of your business
- Taking core values seriously will make your business more efficient and effective
- If something is not yet true about your business, it’s not a core value
- What makes a solid core value?
- Breaking down Path for Growth’s core values
- 1. Point to Jesus
- 2. Alignment
- 3. Freedom and responsibility
- 4. Treat people like friends
- 5. Strength is for service
- Core values can be your anchor
- What steps can a leader take to start establishing core values?
If you’re ready to move beyond just gathering information and start executing on what truly matters, Path for Growth’s 1-on-1 coaching can help. Apply now at pathforgrowth.com/coaching.
Resources:
Creators and Guests
What is Path for Growth?
Path for Growth exists to help impact-driven leaders step into who they were created to be SO THAT others benefit and God is glorified.
Why are core values important?
Alex Judd:If you stand for nothing, you fall for everything, I would say is the most, cliche way of putting it. But, I mean, these are your nonnegotiables. Right? These are the things that are kind of your line in the sand that you say, if we can do business, but we can't do it in this way, we're not willing to do business. And it's the way you protect and guard the soul of your business.
Alex Judd:It's the way you differentiate your business. It's the way you create a compelling and irresistible culture for your team members that you deeply want to work with and you want to create an environment that they really enjoy. It's the way we do things and it's what we stand for, and it's critically important to
Ben Loy:get them right. Are there any mistakes or pitfalls that people make around core values?
Alex Judd:Yes. Not taking them seriously, I would say, is number one. Listen. I'm passionate about this, so I'm sorry if I start yelling, but but I have never seen a business with, quite frankly, more than three people go from not having core values to having core values where it doesn't result in increased efficiency and increased effectiveness in the business. It's just when you get serious about the way you do things and you tell people this is what we're gonna double down on, it always, not sometimes, it always makes you more efficient and more effective as long as you're actually committed to living by them.
Alex Judd:So so number one is taking them seriously. Number two is probably an extension of that. It's like actually suffering the consequences of living by them. It's not dissimilar from what we talked about with the mission statement of it's like when you make a decision of what your yeses are, you're also making a decision about what your noes are. And every single thing that you describe as a core value, you're either saying we are going to live by this and be held accountable to this, or we're going to be subject to being called a hypocrite by ourselves and others.
Alex Judd:And it would be better for you to not have core values than for you to have core values that you don't actually live by. But a lot of times, people do the work of establishing them, but then they get a little a little bit cowardly in living by them, and then they look like hypocrites. And and so we gotta avoid against doing that. We gotta focus both on the creation, but also the adoption and sustained continuation of the core values.
Ben Loy:Are core values aspirational or like, are they something that you choose or are they something that already exists within your company and the passion that you have for what you're doing?
Alex Judd:That's a really good question. And you actually used the exact right word, which I don't know if you used that word, intentionally or not. But, so Pat Lencioni wrote a book called The Advantage. It was probably one of the most foundational books that I've read on organizational culture. And when he talks about core values, he actually divides them into different types of values that aren't all core.
Alex Judd:And it's another mistake that we make is we call things core that aren't actually core to the organization. And so examples of this are aspirational core values, things that you want to be true but aren't actually true but but you desire for them to be true. Those can even be good things, but but if they're not actually true, you don't want to codify them and call them core values. A great example of this is, I think he actually shares this story in this book, is that he's consulting a company and he's talking to this gentleman about what he thinks his core values are. And, the consultant spends all this time observing the company, you know, for a few days watching how people work.
Alex Judd:And there's a lot of good things about the company, but one thing that is just kinda clear is it's a little bit of an older company, and they move at a very, like, snail's pace, a little bit kind of lethargic. Right? There's not a a huge, like, huge sense of hunger or motivation in the organization. And he has a meeting with the owner of the business, and the owner of the business says, I'm so glad we're meeting today. I I think I defined one of our core values.
Alex Judd:I finally got it. And he says, okay. Well, what is it? And he says, sense of urgency. And he's like, oh gosh.
Alex Judd:Do I tell him? Does he not know? And he says, well, he said, I'll be honest with you. I've been here for a couple days, and, I feel like that's the opposite of what I've seen. Like, do you really feel like sense of urgency describes what is core to this organization right now?
Alex Judd:And the guy goes, hell no. I don't believe that, but I want it to be true. And that's why it's a core value. And that illustrates the point. The minute you put sense of urgency on the wall, then a new hire walks in and says, this place is filled with hypocrites because they told me sense of urgency mattered.
Alex Judd:And so it's gotta be something that we already have evidence of living by, and we're gonna be committed to continuing living by Other types of values that might not necessarily be core as it's related to that book, there's aspirational core values. There's permission to play values. So these are things that it's like we are all held accountable to, but we don't have to make it a core value because it's like the base level standard. It doesn't represent a differentiated higher standard. So it's like, I don't have a core value at Path4Growth that says don't lie.
Alex Judd:Right? And and it's not because I don't believe people shouldn't lie. It's just because it's like, I shouldn't have to say this. Yeah. Like, this is just like, we all know this.
Alex Judd:And and if I had to make a core value of all of the unwritten base level permission to play rules that we have, then it's like, I'd have 80 core values. Right? Because it's like, don't do marijuana. Don't do cocaine. Don't drink alcohol while on a coaching call.
Alex Judd:Right? It's like, that's not what core values are. Core values are like these higher standards, these differentiated things about your organization. So so that's permission to play values. And then finally, accidental values.
Alex Judd:Accidental values are an interesting study because they're that are likely culturally real about your organization that that you weren't necessarily intentional about, you don't even necessarily care about that much. It's just, it's true about the organization. It's really important that you be aware of these because you can actually create some cultural core values that shouldn't actually be core. So we've all been to that modern church that if you just go around and visit the church, you're like, oh, one of the core values here is, like, trendy, expensive clothing and skinny jeans. Like, that's a core it's like, that's not a core value.
Alex Judd:It's just it turns out that they've only hired people that dress like that. Right? And so being aware of what is the culture that we're accidentally creating versus the culture that we're intentionally creating. And that brings us to our core values. What are the things that actually define our organization at its best today is what we're looking for within core values.
Ben Loy:Dive into that a little bit more. Yeah. Like, what what really makes a solid core value?
Alex Judd:Yeah. I'm gonna lean, on good to great from Jim Collins here. I'm gonna lean on the advantage by Pat Lencioni. I'm also gonna lean on personal experience from what I've observed, what I've coached people on, and what we've done for our business. So you're more committed to it than 99% of your industry.
Alex Judd:It is a good distinguishing factor of a core value. Not necessarily better at it, more committed to it. Like, you care about this more than 99% of your industry. You're willing to accept that it may get taken too far. At the previous organization that I worked for before I started this business, one of the core values was self employed mentality.
Alex Judd:And when people, aka me, leave that business to go start a business because they have such a self employed mentality, it's like that organization, as long as you exit well, they don't actually get mad about that. They say, like, this is kinda just the price of being the type of organization that we are. Right? And it's the cost of doing business as an entrepreneurial business. Right?
Alex Judd:So so they may get taken too far. You're willing to pay a cost associated with this core value. When we say we are going to have a value based organization, what we are saying is this is going to define the pace that we move. So if our pace of growth requires us to go outside these boundaries, it's too fast. Like, we are not gonna go outside these boundaries.
Alex Judd:It also defines who we can and can't hire. To say that you're a Christian organization and you you've stated in your core values, like, we are going to be a Christian organization. I'm not saying you have to do that, but you can do that. Right? Say that you've established that line in the sand and you, like, really need a a web developer.
Alex Judd:And web developers are incredibly difficult to find. They're they're incredibly, like, challenging to find a dependable web developer, and and they can be incredibly expensive. And you found the perfect person, but they don't align with that value. Are you willing to say, man, I I I can't hire that person? And if the answer is no, that's fine.
Alex Judd:It just might not be a core value at that point. It might be something that's nice to have but not need to have. Your core values are the things that are need to have related to it might cost the organization something. I I heard a story about Southwest Airlines recently, which I think one of their core values is something to the effect of fun loving attitude. Right?
Alex Judd:And it explains all the jokes, the singing, right, all of that. So there there was customer that I guess it was her first time that she flew Southwest, and the flight attendant did the safety procedures at the beginning and, like, sang a song and made a bunch of jokes throughout the throughout the flight procedures at the beginning. And this woman was just sitting there fuming the entire time, just so upset to the point where, which we have all met this woman. Like, we have all met this woman. She literally writes a letter to the CEO of Southwest Airlines just, I mean, ranting.
Alex Judd:Like, I I will you know, if you don't change this, I will never fly this airline again. Like, this is absolutely ridiculous. We're we're talking about the safety of the passengers onboard your airplanes. You're making jokes. Like, this is just crazy.
Alex Judd:You're supposed to be in a professional industry like I would expect better. I paid $200 for my plane ticket. I can't believe you would treat this without, you know, a higher degree of professionalism and seriousness. What's crazy is the CEO read the letter and then replied with a letter of his own that had three words. We'll miss you.
Alex Judd:Right? And it and it's like that's really a funny example that articulates and illustrates the decision that we are all making whenever we define our core values is we are not for everyone. And that's okay. Right? And and, I would actually say part of becoming an exceptional, remarkable, different business is you are not going to be for everyone.
Alex Judd:And as a leader, you defining your core values is kind of saying, who are the people that we are for? Both in terms of who's gonna work for us, but also in terms of who's gonna want to do business with us. So
Ben Loy:we have five core values at Path for Growth. Let's jump into what those are and maybe why why you decided that those are gonna be our core values.
Alex Judd:Yeah. So we'll just list them out first. It's point to Jesus, alignment, freedom and responsibility, treat people like friends, and strength is for service. So those are our five core values. You want me to walk through them one at a time or what would be best?
Ben Loy:I guess my first question to you is when did you decide on those five? Did you decide on those all at once? And, yeah, are there any stories attached to just the decision of the core values as a group, in general? What was your thought process?
Alex Judd:We had done business for about a year and a half, and I had I mean, from the day we started the business, I had basically standards in my head of this is what we stand for. This is the way that we do business. And and that's the way almost all founders that I know or even leaders that I know operate. It's like they have standards that are either intentionally adopted or inherited that they are operating with. And part of codifying that into core values is just saying, what are the standards that I'm already living with?
Alex Judd:And so the way that happened for us is, I'll never forget it, I had made the full time hire of Zach Estes to operate as, the COO of our business. And it was becoming very clear that this thing that was, like, essentially, like, a job for Alex with a couple of contractors and other, like, side things that we were doing was becoming a very formalized thing that we were building bigger than myself. And Zach being hired kind of marked one of those, like, critical junctures. And it became clear, like, okay. We need to dedicate some time to defining what these things are.
Alex Judd:What are these standards that we are going to live by? And so I had a bunch of phrases and things that were important to me in my head that I'll never forget. We we sat down at a coffee shop in Austin called Civil Goat, and, it's a bizarre little coffee shop. There's there's literally outside in at the like, can sit outside and there's a goat just like walking around. I see.
Alex Judd:There are oftentimes where the goat will literally just jump on the table that you're sitting at and like just hang out there. And then the goat isn't actually all that civil because literally as Zach and I were sitting at this table working on the core values, we watched a kid get kicked by the Yeah. Which was just so uncivil goat is what I would but great coffee. So so that's where we sat down and worked on these core values. And really it was saying like, are the non negotiable standards that we are both going to live by and that we are going to hold this organization accountable to moving forward?
Alex Judd:And, you know, as an owner in that situation, I'm putting on the lens of, like, I am getting married to these, right, is how I like to think about it. Like, I am this is not gonna be something that I look up in a year and change my mind on. It's not something that I look up in even five years. We have not changed it since we established them. And that's not to say that you absolutely can't if you realize there's incontrovertible evidence that you got it wrong.
Alex Judd:But, I would say that you dilute their power if you change them is what I would say. So put a lot of intentionality and effort into getting them right. And that's what we did is we basically said, like, what are the things that we're willing to live by? What are the non negotiables? And it's what we walk people through in team trainings is is listing all the things that matter for you and then walk through a methodical process of crossing out things that are permission to play, cross out things that are aspirational, cross out things that aren't actually alive and real today, cross out things that are accidental.
Alex Judd:And then once you've walked through that whole process, define what's core. And that's what we did that day.
Ben Loy:So our first core value is point to Jesus, dive into why that was picked as the first one. I mean, I feel like, yeah, I'm just curious what your perspective is.
Alex Judd:What was an interesting process to get there, you know, and this can be the most tenuous. Right? Because this is a, in some ways, a statement of faith. Mhmm. Right?
Alex Judd:But it's also, like, what I didn't wanna get into is I don't think it's healthy for the organization, for me, or for the people that work for us, for the place that they work to be the, quote, unquote, police of their spiritual vitality, health, and relationship with God. Mhmm. Like, number one, how would I even evaluate that? And then, number two, I don't think that's my responsibility as a leader, and that could actually be I mean, we we see examples of this is incredibly damaging. And then the other thing that I think it's not supposed to be is, like, I can't police people's morality either.
Alex Judd:Like, that the minute you start to do that, it's just like you open up a whole can of worms into, yeah, just things that aren't good is what I would say.
Ben Loy:I feel like you open the door for people to call you out as a hypocrite when, you know, maybe you there are areas of the organization that aren't aligned with that. Yeah. I I definitely could see how that could go the wrong way.
Alex Judd:And, like, how much of their personal life is my business Mhmm. And, like, and if you're not careful, you're then encouraging people to keep secrets and all of that. It just I understand the temptation to want to do that because you wanna have a god honoring organization, and I deeply want to have a god honoring organization. I also want our people to live the way god talks about because I actually think it's in their best interest. I don't think.
Alex Judd:I know it's in their best interest to live the way God talked about. It's just not something that I should be enforcing as part of people's role or job. Mhmm. So for a while, the core value that I had in my head that I was like, oh, when I sit down with Zach, I think this is what it's gonna be, is gonna be stand on truth. Right?
Alex Judd:Stand on truth. Like, that we refer to the truth. The Bible is truth, and that's what we stand on. And and I was kinda like, okay. But if that's the core value, like, that you can very easily over index on that to just being like, we become the the truth police and, like, now I can choose whatever ver like, not version, but I can choose whichever truth from the Bible I'm gonna focus on that day and and make decisions based on that.
Alex Judd:And I I said, well, there's there's also, like, a a incredible grace element in leadership. Right? That, like, we want to be committed to truth, but we also really want to have grace for people because we know that growth is a process. Sanctification is a process. And as long as people are committed and, like, in agreement that they want what's in their best interest and for the glory of God, Like, we want that for them.
Alex Judd:And to the degree that it's wise and in their best interest, we wanna be part of that process with them. And so it's like there's a grace element here. And then I I'll never forget. Like, we sat down, and we were literally like it's almost like I wish there was, like, a person that we could, like, point to that is like, an example of what we're talking about there of truth and grace. And I was like, I literally said that.
Alex Judd:I said that exact phrase and then I was like and in my head I was thinking like, maybe Abraham Lincoln. I was like, you idiot. If I just have Abraham Lincoln, it's like, his name is Jesus. Right? And, cue the worship music.
Alex Judd:His name is Jesus. Like and and it was just like, okay. That's the core value. That's the heartbeat that we want is we wanna hold ourselves to the standard of our actions, attitudes, words, thoughts. We are committed to aligning those with the person of who Jesus is as it's described in the New Testament.
Alex Judd:We are also going to leverage him as our example of not good leadership, perfect leadership. Like, he is our example that we point to and look to. And we also know that Jesus embodied grace, not just truth. Mhmm. And so in that process, what we're not gonna do is actively deny Jesus.
Alex Judd:Like, we don't do that on our team, and we're not gonna actively deny what Jesus taught or have questions about the validity of what he taught. What we what we certainly can have conversations about is, man, I'm committed to this, and I really want to live this way, but it's hard. And I need grace because I make mistakes. That's true of me. And so what we all wanna hold ourselves personally accountable to is to the standard of point to Jesus.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. One final thing I'd say on that before we dive into further questions on that one is I think organizations are at their best whenever they are clear and open about their core values on the front end, and people are saying, I want to be personally accountable to this. Like, I I think everyone on our team would say today, like, I personally, just for myself, not for Path for Growth, not for our customers, not for anything else, I want to be personally accountable to pointing to Jesus. And the fact that that's something we often talk about at work is just like a side thing to something I would be doing anyway and I want to be doing anyway and this is actually amplifying a standard I already hold for myself.
Ben Loy:Yeah, definitely. And, I mean, as you mentioned earlier, like, you're just when you decide what you're for, like, it gives not only your team, but also the people you're serving a really clear picture of of what that looks like and how to practice that.
Alex Judd:Yeah. There's there's, two things on that. Like, number one, it's interesting whenever you talk about religious concepts in in core values like God or Jesus. I have literally had people ask me, like, you mean you haven't been sued? I just say, no.
Alex Judd:I haven't been sued. You know? And and they did it at Ramsey too. I know a bunch of really, really impact driven companies that include statements about their core beliefs, whether that's Christianity or not, in their core values, and they have not been sued. And, unfortunately, it depends what state you live in.
Alex Judd:Yeah. And so I would tell you you should be shrewd and operate with wisdom in that regard and maybe consider moving if you live in a state where you can't do that. But I want to live in a place and I want to run a business where I don't have to keep my beliefs, my most deeply held beliefs and convictions, a secret from the people that I'm working with. And, like, I think we should all want that. Yeah.
Alex Judd:Like, I think that's critically important. And so, I mean, your quote, unquote religion is in your core values, whether you call it that or not. Yeah. And so the fact that ours just happens to include the word Jesus is just basically what we believe being in our core values, which I would say everyone should do.
Ben Loy:Yeah. I was recently talking to a business owner and she was sharing with me kind of her struggle with that. Like, being a Christian, being a believer, at the time living in a state where it was more difficult to be upfront about that both culturally and maybe even being a target for for legal, action.
Alex Judd:Okay. Can I guess?
Ben Loy:Go for it.
Alex Judd:Was it, California? Maybe. It's possible.
Ben Loy:But she, like, she'd relocate she'd actually relocated and, but she was just sharing with me, you know, that, yeah, there was a time when when I was incorporating prayer into our team meetings and and and a lot more upfront about it and then I, you know, I kinda started to dial back because of, you know, fear of repercussions and things like that. And, and then she even expressed more recently, they had a a team meeting, a large team meeting, and, several of her staff members had asked her to pray before the meal. And because they knew that it was it was it was important to her personally and that it was a part of who she was. And, I I feel like that was just a really good example of Yeah, like how do you Or creates the question of like, yeah, how do you balance that well when either maybe you're in a state or in a culture where that's not as accepted or it's It turns heads a little more aggressively or it opens you up for legal action. But then even with us at Path for Growth, I mean, we we have we have clients from a a wide range of faith bases and, including Orthodox Jewish community, but but also other beliefs.
Ben Loy:And, yeah, like how how how have you navigated that? How would you maybe advise someone else to navigate being upfront about who they are and what they believe and creating a strong culture of that within their business while also leading with grace and and not being overtly controversial or, like, opening yourself up maybe even for some for some harm and some heartache.
Alex Judd:I I think there's some, like yeah. There's so many nuances that, like, I mean, I I have had, you know, two hour conversations with leaders as they walk through what their core values are to walk through those nuances. But one of the things that I would say as it relates to our situation is I had to think really deeply about the work that we do and what I was and wasn't okay with as a business owner in terms of people coaching or training on my behalf. And one of the things that happens in our work is, I mean, we are helping impact driven leaders step into who they were created to be so that others benefit and God is glorified. Right?
Alex Judd:That mission plays out in the good times for people, and it also plays out in the bad times for people. And we could use examples on both sides of that spectrum, but the one that's most visceral for me is we have people that have come to calls, and their one on one coach is the first person that they tell that they just received a cancer diagnosis. And how is a coach going to respond to that moment? Because I didn't write that training playbook. Right?
Alex Judd:I I didn't write that down. How like, what do you do when you're a coach in this Yeah. And that's where core values are really helpful is you give your team members anchors that they can refer to. And one of the decisions that I had to make as a leader is like, that's an occurrence that happens. Tragedy, catastrophe, really, really tough times.
Alex Judd:That's something that we engage with, and people are looking to us for wisdom and guidance and counsel and help in that situation. And I had to make a decision at that moment. Am I okay with the coach that is representing my company on a call saying basically giving them a self help manifesto of why everything's going to be okay? And that's where I just said no. Like, I'm not okay with that.
Alex Judd:And, like, I I need the people that we hire to point to Jesus in that situation. And and we've had that happen. And without having a script, I have literally, you know, had coaches just say, hey. I'm just gonna stop you right there. Why don't we pray?
Alex Judd:And then we actually dive into the coaching around this. And and for me, I'm like, that's exactly how that should be handled in the context of that core value. Now here's why I think it's important for businesses to understand. Because we could hear that story and be like, well, we all want that. Right?
Alex Judd:Like, what or if you believe what I believe. But what I would say is maybe you own an irrigation company. And, you know, you've got 30 team members, and you're hiring really great technicians. And you should really think through, is it critically important to you? It might be.
Alex Judd:The answer might be yes, that they all share your belief system for them to be an irrigation technician on your team. Or do you view your company as a a really incredible vehicle for even evangelizing the people on your team or or sharing a different better way to live with people on your team. And so they don't have to be Christian as long as they subscribe to base level values that you do have for the business for you to be able to do the work that you want to accomplish. And maybe you're actually uniquely called to not be a, quote, unquote, Christian organization. But then also maybe you set the expectation like, hey.
Alex Judd:I I personally am a Christian, so I pray at the beginning of meetings. There's nuances and there's distinctions. I think the big thing that I would focus on for people is do not make a decision that you cannot live in integrity with.
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Right? You should feel freedom to live in alignment with the values that you stand for and believe. And if there's anything in you that doesn't like that that doesn't feel like, you have integrity in the way that you're leading with your values, whether it's because you're trying to impress something on people that isn't actually theirs or because you're you're having to hide something that you really feel like you should be talking about or sharing with people, don't move in that direction. Integrity and freedom is the key to knowing whether you've got it or not.
Ben Loy:Let's move on to alignment. What is alignment? Because I feel like, yeah, I think defining this is important for people.
Alex Judd:Yeah. It's I mean, it's probably the most ambiguous. It's not ambiguous to our team, but it's the most ambiguous whenever you read it from the outside. Alignment is the message we give is the way that we live. So, basically, it's our bulwark against hypocrisy Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Which runs rampant in our industry is what I would say. Yeah.
Ben Loy:Integrity, I think, is the word that I often, like, associate with with alignment. And even when I'm evaluating myself, like, before our one on ones, it's like, am I am I operating in integrity? Is often the question that I'm asking myself.
Alex Judd:Yeah. I think that that's really good because integrity is kind of like, am I a whole person?
Ben Loy:Mhmm.
Alex Judd:Right? Do my actions align with my words, and do my actions overlap from who I am at church to who I am at work to who I am at home to, you know, who I am with my friends, all of that. Right? So I I think that's really well said. And it actually brings up an important point is you kinda have a decision to make as you walk through the core values process of do we want to use language that's immediately accessible and understandable, or do we want to use language that might be more personal and sticky and inside baseball?
Alex Judd:And in particular, for this core value, I I said, I want to use inside baseball. I want this to be a term that, like, you might not get it unless you got it, but once you got it, you'll always get it. Right? So I would say and and that's why we chose what we did for that.
Ben Loy:Yeah. How how has that played out in the business?
Alex Judd:Oh, gosh. How should we take this? I would say the first thing so one of the reasons why I was deeply passionate about it is I think, people in our space carry a lot more trust and, and quite frankly, depth and credibility whenever they're talking about things that they do and have done. And, but the norm in our industry is people giving advice and talking about things that they have not done. Right?
Alex Judd:And so one of the, like like, junctures for us is I I have no doubt there are people that are exceptionally talented and charismatic and great relationship people that could probably play the role of coach on our team. But we have established the standard that we do not hire coaches that have not owned or run a business to advise people that own or run a business. Yeah. And so that's the standard that we have. And and it means that there's a ton of wonderful people out there that have sent us messages saying they want to be one of our coaches, but they have not owned or run a business.
Alex Judd:So we can't even interview them for that role. Mhmm. Because we are advising people that own or run businesses, and we don't advise people on things that we haven't done. And so that's just a standard that we're holding ourselves to. That's one practical example of how that that core value has played out.
Ben Loy:That example sort of alludes to it. But, yeah, is there is there another example of maybe a time when it cost the business to make a decision and and hold to alignment?
Alex Judd:Someone told me recently, they were like, oh my gosh, Alex. There is so much opportunity. I would pay you, and I know other people would pay you to, teach a course on succession and come in and implement that for businesses, particularly owner succession. And they're like, there is so much money in this because a lot of businesses are engaging with this right now as baby boomers are getting older, and, it's something that people understand the return of and people are willing to pay really big big bucks to do that. And I said, that's wonderful.
Alex Judd:I I we're gonna have to find someone else to do that because I can't do that. Because I haven't done that. Right? Like, it's like no. I I know.
Alex Judd:I actually think I could write a pretty good course on what I think great succession would be. But, I mean, quite frankly, four years ago, I could have also read a written a great book on parenting, and it would have been absolutely worthless because I was not a parent at that time.
Ben Loy:It wouldn't have included any cornstarch.
Alex Judd:Yes. He's referring to the diet that our daughter is on for the particular genetic disorder. Yeah. When here and here's why alignment is important to me. Like, when I'm talking to business owners now, having owned a business for five years, I get the gray nature of business way more than I used to.
Alex Judd:Right? It's it's just it's hard, and it's not always black and white. And you gotta have a high degree of empathy for people in the decisions and how difficult they are to make. We don't compromise on what's right and wrong, but what what I do have a lot of times is in guiding people towards right and wrong, I'm way better at empathizing in how difficult those decisions can be to make. Whereas before, it's like someone was wrestling through whether or not they should fire someone that clearly wasn't a good fit on their team, And I'd just be like, why are why are you even struggling?
Alex Judd:Or they're like, like, just fire them. Like, this is what the book says, and it's not aligned with the book. Now I know how difficult it is to fire someone, and I know, like, the mental battles you go through and the way I relate to people as they're having to go through that, it it just it sounds different. It feels different because it is different. That's why alignment is so important to me.
Ben Loy:So freedom and responsibility is the next one. This one this is an interesting one, especially as it pertains to our PTO policy, like, internally. Yeah. But also just I think just in general how we operate as a team. Talk a little bit about this.
Alex Judd:This is the one that well, actually, we have a couple, but but this is this is the primary one that I had seasoned business owners tell me as I was starting the business, that's never gonna work. And I said, bet. Like, let's see. And and so jury's still still out. Right?
Alex Judd:We're five years in, but it it's I think it's one of the most attractive things about our team right now for the right people, which is a a critical distinction to make because some people hate this. So the core idea behind freedom and responsibility is the amount of freedom we experience is directly related to the amount of responsibility we take. Mhmm. And I actually don't think that's, like, a a subjective statement. I actually think that that's a truth that we're stating as a description of the core value.
Alex Judd:Like, I actually think that's how the world works. Right? That the amount of freedom you experience is directly related to the amount of responsibility that you take. And there's a multitude of examples I could give on how that plays out personally. But I think the thing that I would highlight there is what's the opposite of responsibility?
Alex Judd:Blame. And as long as you're blaming other people or outside circumstances, you can't experience freedom to that thing because you've you've, externalized agency. Mhmm. Right? This is happening to me.
Alex Judd:This isn't something at all that I can control. Pop psychology would refer to this as an internal locus of control versus an external locus of control. If alcoholism is something that I am a victim of and I have zero control over, I'm not taking responsibility for it, and therefore, I don't experience any freedom to it. I have literally made myself a a slave to alcoholism. The minute I say this is a choice and it's a problem, and it not only is it a problem, it's my problem, and I'm taking responsibility for that.
Alex Judd:The paradoxical world that we live in is the minute I say this is my problem, the thing I experience with that is insane freedom Mhmm. And therefore growth. And so what we're trying to do is align our organizational structure with the reality that, man, when you take responsibility for things that are uniquely yours, the result of that is is incredible freedom. And and what I constantly wanna remind myself and our team of is that is not just like, oh, when I take responsibility for my work, then I get to go on as much vacation as I want to. That is one manifestation of how this could occur.
Alex Judd:Right? But more, it's like you experience freedom in the work when you're like, this isn't something that my boss is making me do. This isn't something that I have to do because the client's expecting of it. This is something that I am choosing to do because I have taken responsibility for this area. In totality, it's no one else's to do.
Alex Judd:It's mine to do. What you experience as a result of that is incredible freedom. And and so that's the crazy relationship between the two.
Ben Loy:Yeah. I've experienced that even in, like, the building of this podcast space with you. Like, when you hired me, one of the terms that you used that's kind of stuck in my brain was, like, internal entrepreneur. And I think that really communicates it's like, yes, the reality is if we work hard and create space for us to take time off, we we we can take as much time off as we we want or need, and you've created that. But it goes so much deeper than that.
Ben Loy:Like, within the work, I have the freedom and the agency to make decisions and to grow and to improve. And it it I mean, it just it shows up exponentially.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. One of the things I am taking responsibility for as the leader of the organization that is exemplifying freedom and responsibility is we've gotta be really good at accountability. Because if if we're if we're not good at helping people stay responsible for the things that they are saying I'm responsible for, it will drift and deviate. And and to no one's fault, we all need it. I need accountability.
Alex Judd:Right? And so there has to be accountability paired for that. And, like and we have to be really like, it's a it's it is an organizational strength for us, would say, is accountability. And the reason why that's the case is because that is one of the things that we've opted in for having to be really good at. Accountability, feedback, all of that, so that we can live with this core value.
Ben Loy:We're gonna do an entire episode on this. And there are a lot of points that I wanna continue talking. But for the sake of time, we're gonna move on to the next core value. Treat people like friends.
Alex Judd:Yeah. We should do that. I think we do do that. Yeah. Kind of what I think of whenever I think of treat people like friends is as we were kind of walking through the core value process, I was like, so much of the things that people look at and they say, oh, man, I'm doing, like, really hard work in the business.
Alex Judd:This is a year and a half in. Like, they're saying, you're working so hard. You're working a lot right now. You're traveling all over the country. Right?
Alex Judd:There's just a lot that you're doing right now. They're like, how are you doing so much? And I think one of the responses I would have is like, it's super easy because I'm just doing it with, like, people that I really enjoy. Like, I'm just literally flying around the country, spending time with people I enjoy. And sometimes I'm literally staying in their guest room.
Alex Judd:I'm often getting dinner with them the Monday night before the Tuesday training. Right? Like, we're I went skydiving with a client once. Like, we're doing all these things, and and it it's like, oh, it's crazy how when you treat people like friends, they actually act and operate like friends. And and it's really easy to treat people like friends when I actually think of them as friends.
Alex Judd:And so as I was kind of talking through that, it's like, what are we doing when we're at our best? Well, we're treating people like friends. At the that early stage, a lot of them literally were my friends. Like, they were people that I, you know, I knew personally, maybe even before the business, and they were now doing business with us. And and, you know, our friendship has even lasted beyond them doing business with us, or we're still doing business with them and we're still friends.
Alex Judd:We felt like it was good to make the core value treat people like friends, not just be friends because it's like there is there is a distinction and there is a difference. And I want all of our team members to have thriving, flourishing, incredible friendships outside of the business. And then for them to really exemplify what it looks like in the business to treat people like their friends. I also want our customers and clients to have friendships apart from their paid contractual relationship with Path for Growth. And so that's where we landed on the language of treat people like friends.
Ben Loy:Yeah. The way that I've seen this play out in in our business and I think looking forward on what it could continue to be and continue to grow into as far as our the customer side of things goes, I look at Jesse Cole from Savannah Bananas. I look at Oh gosh. I forgot his name.
Alex Judd:Are you gonna say Will Gidara?
Ben Loy:Yes. Unreasonable hospitality. Right? Like like, the things that I see us doing internally and even often, like, the the way that you encourage us to operate really, really speaks to that, with this. And I think that it's it's incredible to have it as a core value because if it wasn't, it'd be really easy to let some of that stuff slip.
Ben Loy:Or on the flip side of it, turn it into like a selfish ambition of, oh, we're going to go above and beyond for the sake of just like wowing people and growing our business. And that is not that's not the core of what treat people like friends is. That's right.
Alex Judd:Yeah. Yeah. I'm watching The Bear right now, and, and there's an episode in The Bear where, you know, it's an upscale restaurant, it's an incredible story. It's a great show. Right?
Alex Judd:But there's an episode where it's like they do this surprise. They do they do all these wonderful surprises. Just like fancy restaurants, if they're really good, are prone to do. Right? That are very personalized.
Alex Judd:And they they, you know, do this a just elaborate. Like they had a a, you know, a snow machine or a fake snow machine out because someone wanted to come to Chicago and see snow. Yep. But but there wasn't gonna be snow in all this. And it's like, as a business person, I'm sitting there and being like, you know, in that case, they were actually pretty scrappy about how they did it.
Alex Judd:But as a business person, if I'm eating at that restaurant and I see someone else get surprised, I'm like, that is baked into the margins of my meal right now. Yeah. It's like your surprise budget. And so I like surprise and delight. I think it's really good.
Alex Judd:I also wanna be reasonable with it, and that's why the core value isn't wow. Right? Like, if if the core value becomes only wow, then it's like we're gonna bake wow into everyone's margins for the business, and it's gonna make the business less accessible for people so that some can experience an absurd surprise or something like that. And so I think treat people like friends is a great way for us to think about, in particular, the fact that we are in a relationship business and the the place that we really win is in relationship with people. And and I would say we're doubling down on that more now than we ever have.
Alex Judd:But what do great friends do? Well, if it matters to you, it matters to me. That's a statement of a great friend. They're going to celebrate your highs as though they are your own at their own. Right?
Alex Judd:And and, like, that's why when people have babies, like, there there is no reason why a business coach should be sending you a gift when you have a baby. Right? We do that. Right? Like, one of our coaches went out of his way to get, like, this really incredible, like, bible for an individual that just got baptized.
Alex Judd:Right? And it was something that the coach really cared about. It was something that the individual obviously really cared about. It was a really, really cool moment. Treat people like friends.
Alex Judd:Right? And so we also like to make this an area of our business that is not overly standardized. We we wanna standardize the process for how we accomplish these things, but it's like I like it to be personal. Like, when we send GIFs to people, it's not like, oh, I got the standard path for growth gift that you get whenever this happens. More like, it's like, man, my coach really thought about me and this is what they took the time and effort to send because that's what a good friend would do.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. Alright. Let's move on to the last one here. Strength is for service. Okay.
Ben Loy:This is one that I feel like we talk about a lot. I I don't know about on this podcast, but in our own conversations. And I know that you're really passionate about. So, yeah, share a little bit about where that came from.
Alex Judd:Well, it's on my coffee mug if you're watching on the video channel. So, yeah, so where did it come from? I've shared this story on this podcast before, so I'll I'll share the short version. COVID happens. I'm working at Ramsey at the time, starting to have inklings about starting my own business, but certainly haven't made the decision yet.
Alex Judd:And we have the really ground zero moment at Ramsey where COVID becomes very real. And Dave, incredible leadership in that moment, just shares, like, I don't know what's gonna happen. Here's worst case scenario. Here's, you know, bad scenario. Here's expected scenario.
Alex Judd:And here's what we have financially as the business. And, like, here's the runway that we've got. And, you know, if everything turns off for, you know, x number of months, then we're gonna have to start really making some hard decisions around what we do as a company. He did a really good job of just painting a picture of reality, but also praying and giving people clear actions that they could have confidence in and things that and really challenging us to focus on the things we could control. I remember leaving that meeting and just thinking to myself, man, I bet there's a lot of people in this room right now that are very anxious.
Alex Judd:And I said, I'm just leaving, honestly, feeling very grateful. And I was like, why do I feel grateful right now? And I was like, I feel grateful because I just feel like I have a lot of strength right now. And I haven't always been here, but I I'm from a personal finances perspective, I'm operating from a posture of strength. From a community, perspective, not being isolated, I'm operating from a a posture of strength.
Alex Judd:I'm spiritually really, really strong right now. I feel like I've got some great personal habits and rhythms so that if we had to go work at home, like, I'm not just gonna be this, like, nomad wandering, you know, in in the ether. Like, I feel like I've got some good structure. So I I just was thinking about all these things that I feel personally strong. The next morning, I woke up, and, I just kinda journaled, like, a lot of those things that I was grateful for, the areas that I was strong.
Alex Judd:And then my bible reading that I was doing at that time is I was reading a section in the Old Testament in the ESV or of the New Testament in the ESV, and then I would read the same section in the message version of the Bible just to understand that translation. And I I read the section in Romans. I believe it was Romans 15. And then I read the message section. And in the message, Eugene Peterson's translation, it literally said, strength is for service.
Alex Judd:And I I paused, and I was like, I literally just made a whole list of things that I'm grateful for because these are areas that I feel strong. And then I'm reading in scripture, and it literally stands out to me. This translation does of, like, strength is for service. And it was such a poignant and powerful, basically, wake up call that, like, man, the reason why you are strong in this season is not for you. It's for other people.
Alex Judd:And, like, you are called to pour that strength out in service of others. And it's it's a pretty wild god story. There were things that I literally did out of that single moment that I had no idea they would contribute to, you know, a month and a half later, me starting a company that I did out of that moment just out of, like, I need to serve people now. Like, I need to do it now. And if I would point to why the company was so successful in the first six months, it was because in that in that season, there was a critical juncture.
Alex Judd:I, like, I was aggressive about serving people, like, and really saying, where am I strong and where can I serve? And when we are at our best as a team, we have taken honest inventory of the strengths and blessings that God has blessed us with, and we are intentionally asking the question, how can we best use those strengths to serve other people? And then we are violently executing on the answer to that question. That's when we're at our best.
Ben Loy:I feel like this core value is the one that speaks most directly back to our mission, which is Mhmm. The end of it specifically, right, so that others benefit and God is glorified. Like, the the whole purpose of becoming a a strong and healthy impact driven leader who is in alignment with their mission and and and what they're called to do, the entire purpose of that is to benefit others and to glorify God.
Alex Judd:Mhmm. And so, you know, I think there's an important distinction to make here too is, your core values operate as an anchor when things become really good or really hard, or maybe things become kind of monotonous, and they're the same. They become an anchor that you come back to of, like, what do we stand for, and are we living in alignment with those things? And and especially when things are really hard, you lean into your core values, and you kind of ask your core values the question, what do you think we should do about this situation? When you have hard decisions or difficult or challenging things that come up, you kind of interrogate your core values and say, what should we do here?
Alex Judd:Right? But then also, I think organizations are at their best when they also have systems for living their core values that aren't just moment by moment. So we, on a quarterly basis, set aside 10% of our organization's profit into a generosity bucket that that is our strength is for service bucket, and that will be given away. Right? And and it's given away for purposes that are not direct lines of like, this really benefits the business.
Alex Judd:Right? Let's be clear. Generosity always benefits the business even if you try really hard to not make it do that. Right? But but, like, that's an example of a system.
Alex Judd:Like, it's a commitment that I and we have made that it's like, we are gonna put our money where our mouth is and live by this core value.
Ben Loy:This, I feel like, moves on into how I'd like to spend the last ten minutes. And that's yeah. We just went over our core values, what what that's looked like within the business, why you chose them. The idea would be that someone wouldn't just copy and paste our core values into their organization.
Alex Judd:Well said. And people have tried. Yeah. Yeah. And people do that and it never works as well.
Ben Loy:Yeah. So if someone's sitting here and they're like, man, I either the core values I've selected are maybe they're too aspirational or they're Yeah, there's something that They're not really a true core value and I need to, establish those or reestablish core values within my organization. Or if someone's starting from scratch, what are the first steps someone can take practically to establish those in their organization, and, how does that play out?
Alex Judd:So I would say, you know, when we do these in team trainings with people, which you you could bring us out, one of our coaches can come out and do that with you as a full day session for your leadership team, or if you work with us in one on one coaching relationship, we walk through this in our fundamental lesson. The first thing we're gonna do is gonna grill you up on a bunch of questions, not dissimilar from the the mission statement exercise that we do. When is your organization operating at its best? Who are your absolute ideal team members, and what are the characteristics that they embody? What are the things that when they happen, they drive you crazy, like mad?
Alex Judd:Like like, what are the things that you're irrationally passionate about? What makes this organization weird? What are you more committed to than 99% of the industry? What are your, like, line in the sand things that you're not willing to compromise on? Tell me about times when you had to make hard decisions that ended up being good decisions.
Alex Judd:Right? Like, if I get to do it my way, I'm gonna spend half a day asking a person questions, and I'm just gonna be a scientist that takes notes and takes notes and takes notes. And then together, we're gonna look at that whiteboard. And and I say person. We're probably doing this with a leadership team if you're a grown and established business.
Alex Judd:We're gonna look at that whiteboard, and we're gonna say, what are the themes? What are the categories here? We're not going to worry about the words. We're just gonna look for the categories and the themes, and and we're gonna kind of circle and bucket those. And and then we're gonna isolate, okay, out of these buckets, which of these are core?
Alex Judd:Not aspirational, not permission to play, not accidental. Which of these are core? And the principle that I want you to remember there is simplicity scales. We were in a leadership development conversation the other day, and and I was biting my tongue because it wasn't my place to speak up. But someone asked the question, man, Southwest just has this incredible culture, and it's pretty amazing that they have such an incredible culture because they have so many thousands of people, and they're spread all across the country.
Alex Judd:How how does that happen? Such a good question. Such a good question. It wasn't my place to speak, so I was like, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut, but now I get to answer. Right?
Alex Judd:Southwest made an intentional decision that is different than most other other companies that have thousands of people. They said, we're gonna be really, really specific about what differentiates us as a company, and we are going to put those in three core values. Three. You know how hard it is to get three core values? Most people think, oh, we've got a huge company.
Alex Judd:We need to have more core values. I would say you have a huge company and they're all flying on different planes and they like they're all doing different jobs. You need to have less core values. You need to have three. And so I wish I could remember.
Alex Judd:I think it's it's servant's heart, fun loving attitude, and warrior spirit, if I'm remembering them correctly. And and what's crazy is when you say this is what makes someone uniquely Southwest, I mean, it is bonkers that you can have crews of people that have never worked together before, and they come to do a job that is obviously operationally really standardized and really excellent. But they all like each other, and they all, like, have a get it factor, and they all are laughing with customers. And they like, the work seems playful when Southwest is at its best. They've diverged some recently, which we that's a different episode.
Alex Judd:Right? Rest in peace. But, no. They're they're still wonderful. They're just walking through the wilderness a little bit right now, in my opinion.
Alex Judd:Right? But, man, simplicity scales. So I would say we want to distill I would challenge people to go three to five. We have had team members kind of voice, there's something we really care about in here. Maybe we should have a six core value, and I will fight tooth and nail to keep us to five because the the more you have, inflation occurs.
Alex Judd:The more you have, the less valuable the ones you do have actually become. Right? Because you're literally spending now 25% less time talking about those. So distill in the buckets, and then we get into wordsmithing. And with wordsmithing, I I wanna remind people language creates culture.
Alex Judd:And so what is the language that you're already using? We were already saying strength is for service all the time before we define the core value. So what's the language you're already using, or what's the language that you're like, we are going to use this, and we are going to make this stick? And a lot of times, personal personal language that, like, carries some meaning with it that's maybe even a little bit fun for you and your organization, can be really, really powerful. So I have more examples on that, but that's where the high level of the how.
Ben Loy:Is there anything else you would like to add to that process? Or
Alex Judd:I guess the final thing I would say is the first time you do this exercise or when you do this exercise, you'll look at the words you land on, and some of them you're like, it just doesn't feel like it carries all the meaning that when Alex talks about Path for Growth score values, like, I don't feel the same sense of umph. And what I would tell you is I didn't feel the same sense of umph either whenever we started. And and words gain meaning over time when you use them. And so, our team members experience this now. Like, I have had team members that, obviously, they come in, they interview, they they are already living the core values, and they're passionate about them, but that's, like, the extent of things.
Alex Judd:And then I've been on a phone call with them a year later, and they're crying talking about a core value and how it's changed their life. Right? And it's like, it would have been weird if they were crying talking about the core value in the interview process. Right? But now it's like, oh, they have personal stories associated with this language.
Alex Judd:And in some ways, this language is just the trigger that makes them think of those stories and those experiences. And so choose the language that you like and expect that it's gonna gain meaning over time.
Ben Loy:Mhmm. Is there anything else you'd wanna say in closing around core values and or even just about who we are at Path four Growth?
Alex Judd:I mean, it's the same standard for mission. In the hiring process. It's a no until people prove that it's a yes, and we are not looking for people that think these core values are nice. We are looking for people that are like, I finally found a place that loves and stands for the things that I love and stand for. That's what we're really, really looking for.
Alex Judd:And you need to decide if that's your standard for the values in your organization or not. I I know a lot of good companies that say, we're not actually as strict on, like, what the bar is for our core values and people's living alignment. And and they are good companies, and maybe that aligns with the business owners or even the businesses' growth goals and things like that. Just be willing to live with what you tolerate is what I would say. And right now, for the season that we are in as a business, I have decided, like, I am gonna have a really, really high threshold.
Alex Judd:It's a no until you prove that it's a yes, and we are gonna guard these things relentlessly because that's the type of business that I wanna be a part of. And there will be cost to that. It's not like there already is cost to that. And I've just decided I'd rather pay the cost. I'm I'm down for it, and I think our whole team has decided that too.
Alex Judd:And I'm biased towards that direction. You probably hear that throughout this whole conversation. But the final thing I would say is I'll say it again. It's the single thing that you can do that if you do it correct, it will make your business more effective and more efficient. Like, it will do that.
Alex Judd:And so it's one of the most things that we can say it never feels urgent, but it's incredibly important and, and just can have massive ramifications for your future and that of your business. Well, there you have it. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. If you want any of the information or resources that we mentioned, that's all in the show notes. Hey, before you go, could I ask you for one quick favor?
Alex Judd:Could you subscribe, rate, and review this podcast episode? Your feedback is what helps our team engage in a sequence of never ending improvement. We wanna amplify what's valuable to you and obviously reduce or even remove the things that aren't. Also, you leaving a positive review is what helps us connect with, build trust with, and serve other leaders around the country. So thanks in advance for helping us out on that front.
Alex Judd:Are you a leader that wants to grow your business in a healthy way, serve people exceptionally well, and glorify God in the process? Go to pathforgrowth.com to get more information about our community of impact driven leaders and schedule a call with our team. Hey, thank you so much to the Path for Growth team, Kyle Cummings and the crew at Pod Circle, and the remarkable leaders that are actively engaged in the Path for Growth community. Y'all are the people that make this podcast possible. Y'all know this.
Alex Judd:We're rooting for you. We're praying for you. We wanna see you win. Remember, my strength is not for me. Your strength is not for you.
Alex Judd:Our strength is for service. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.