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🎙️ Groovy? Dreamy? Slashy? Let’s get ready to SCREAM!
What happens when three horror icons collide in the multiverse—and who’s left standing when the blood dries?
Ep. 168 What if Jason (Friday the 13th) fought Freddy (Nightmare on Elm Street) and Ash (Evil Dead)?
from Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash #1-6 (Wildstorm/Dynamite, 2007–2008)
We’re diving into the ultimate horror crossover multiverse! We begin with the legendary slasher and supernatural legacies of Jason Voorhees, Freddy Krueger, and Ash Williams—from Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Evil Dead respectively—before turning to the blood-soaked comics of Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash and its chaotic sequel The Nightmare Warriors. Along the way we explore the intersection of fan service, horror mythmaking, and multiversal mash-ups, then wrap with speculation on whether this horror trifecta deserves a cinematic rematch—or maybe an even bigger monster multiverse.
Reading / Watch List:
- Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash #1-6 (Wildstorm/Dynamite, 2007)
- Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash: The Nightmare Warriors #1-6 (Wildstorm/Dynamite, 2009)
- Freddy vs. Jason (New Line Cinema, 2003)
- Friday the 13th (Paramount, 1980) – and sequels
- A Nightmare on Elm Street (New Line Cinema, 1984) – and sequels
- The Evil Dead (Renaissance Pictures, 1981) – and sequels including Army of Darkness, Ash vs Evil Dead, etc.
Theme music is Space Heroes by MaxKoMusic (Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0)
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Creators and Guests
Host
What is Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast?
Dear Watchers is a comic book podcast taking you through the omniverse where your Watchers Guido and Rob explore a different multiverse each episode, from Marvel’s What If to DC’s Elseworlds and far beyond. Join as we discuss the stories that were inspired by and take inspiration from each episode's alternate universe. Includes special episodes with guest creators, scholars and fellow podcasters to share their favorite trips to the multiverse and help ponder the possibilities of what lies ahead for comics and storytelling. For bonus episodes: www.ko-fi.com/DearWatchers
>> Rob: You're all my podcast listeners now. Welcome to de. Exactly. I got Groovy Omniversal, Comlict podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse. I got all fre ca phrases in.
>> Guido: Yeah, that was a little more esoteric. But we are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse.
>> Rob: Our fictional realities.
>> Guido: And your watchers on this journey are me. Guido, you stole all the catchphrases that I know. The basic ones. I don't know what to say.
>> Rob: So yeah, you could be, you know, Drster, your dream master. O. I love that. Well, I'm your dream warrior, Rob.
>> Guido: There we go.
>> Rob: Before we begin our trip into 80s and 90s horror, Geido, what's new in our little section of the multiverse?
>> Guido: Well, we're having some audio issues today, but hopefully everyone can hear us. Okay. Regardless, we're doing our best, making it work. And our last episode was our anniversary episode for four years of the show. And we're back now it's September, so no time like the present to start our spooky seasonitions.
>> Rob: Well, they've already been in Lowe's and Home Depot for weeks and weeks now. Right? Halloween stuff.
>> Guido: Yeah. And it's really fun feeling like fall in New York a little early this year. So we are definitely in, the spooky season Halloween mood. The other thing that means is New York Comic Con on the horizon. So it in just a little over a month, we'll be at New York Comic Con bringing a report back to our listeners and hopefully meeting up with some of our listeners and friends while we're there.
>> Rob: I know, I guess I should be saving money for that. Every year I say, you know what, I'm notnna. This is the year I'm not gonna spend much money. And then that goes out the wayside.
>> Guido: It does, it does.
>> Rob: But it's the siren call Comic Con and they have all Halloween themes merch this year, which is so fun. Really, they're finally embracing it. I feel like we've said this before on our podcast, like Halloween to us and New York Comic Con go together. So I'm glad that the, con is actually embracing it.
>> Guido: Yeah. hopefully some of the content will. They did just announce all that. All the Ghostbusters people. So maybe they are leaning a little bit more into horror than usual. That would be fun.
>> Rob: I'm hoping for a Camp Crystal Lake panel tied into today's conversation. O and if you are joining us here on the pod for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and pondering possibilities. So thanks for coming along.
>> Guido: Yes. And remember, leave us a five star review wherever you're listening and make sure to post your thoughts on today's topic on most social media. Deer watchers.
>> Rob: And with that, campers, welcome to episode 168. And let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travel today's alternate universe. Today we are answering the dream question. Or is it more of a nightmare. What if Jason From Friday the 13th fought Freddie from Nightmare on Elm street and Ash from Evil Dead?
>> Guido: Whoa. This Earth is an interesting one because it s technically a continuation of a canonical film, but we'll get into all that. Let's assume that this whole world stopped existing after this and it sequel comic book series. But we'll just call it Earth. Nickrnomicon at a camp in a nightmare that gets everything in. We have covered some of these characters before, so we have covered Jason in our Halloween special a few years back. And we did that through covering Jason versus Leatherface and Jason versus Jason X. So if you are interested in a double whammy of Jason Friday the 13th, go listen to episodes 118 and 119. And then we have covered Ash and the Evil Dead. Do you remember when?
>> Rob: No, I thought we did, but I couldn't even being Zina Warrior Princess, of.
>> Guido: Course, of Evil Dead. And that was back on episode 105. So go check out our previous episodes to hear a little bit more about Ash and Jason. But someone new, brand new is in the mix today. And that's your boyfriend now.
>> Rob: Well, we'll talk more about these properties in our origin segment, but let's talk about our background with horror. Guido, were you a, monster kid growing up or did these movies scare you? What? How did you approach these movies?
>> Guido: Well, we'll get into these movies specifically in our segment today. But I think overall my sister was into like Nightmare on Elm street was coming out when I was a kid and she's almost a decade older than me, so I was not interested in watching it. And it would scare me that she was into things like Nightre on Elm, street and Stephen King and stuff like that. And then my interest was more in, I guess like the macabre and sort of the fringe of horror. When I was a kid, my mother liked Hitchcock and I liked things like Edgar Allean Poe. It wasn't really till high school probably which is when the wave of Scream and teen horror was starting that I got really into it because I used to go to the theater to see those with friends. And then I really enjoyed being scared. And so it's only from you know, 15 or 16 on that I started watching these movies and I've never stopped. Some of which I've been watching for the first time, even from m these franchises over the last few weeks.
>> Guido: What about you? You've always been a horror lover, but what did that look like as a kid?
>> Rob: Well, one of the first movies I ever. I don't know if you call it horror, but one of the first movies they ever even remember watching was the original King Kong and then definitely the Universal horror movies for Frankenstein, Dracula as a little kid. And I think I was very highfalutin as a kid horror fan because I didn't like, I was like, well I don't like the movies with too much blood and gore. I like the.
>> Guido: And now you're like all into Now I'm all into exploitation movies and, and ge.
>> Rob: You know, you watch documentaries with people, especially people from like an older generation and they're like, ah, we didn't need those things back then. So I liked the Vincent Priceyce kind of movies and things like that. But then I think my first exposure to. I don't remember the first time I saw a Friday the 13th movie probably on TV. But I do remember the one thing that really scared me with Freddy was there was this blockbuster movie game for computers and one of the things had a had a Friday Had a Nightmare on Elm street clip and that scared me. But anyway, we'll go more into the movies now in our origins of the story. So let's go through these three one by one and let's share a quick one sentence summary and then our own backgrounds.
>> Guido: Yeah, because we do have a, we do have a prime story here, but we'll get to that at the end of this segment and we won't need much time for it. So we're going to go in chronological order and debuting in 1980, we have Jason Voorhees, who's a hulking machete wielding killer in a hockey mask who began as a drowned boy and evolved into an undead slasher icon From Friday the 13th, the first part, and then ending up appearing in 12 films, multiple comic book series. As mentioned at the top, that we've covered novels, video games and so much merchandising that you'd think there was more. But there's not more. Until the forthcoming series you mentioned. This really cemented his legacy as one of the most prolific figures in horror Cinema. So Friday 13th, this is your franchise. What, when did that start?
>> Rob: I don't know when this started actually. You know what? I kind of maybe remember that a friend of mine, ours who is a drag queen used to host Friday the 13th viewing parties at a gay bar, New York City. And I think that was the first time I was really exposed to them. And I think one of the reasons why I like this franchise so much is because they are great like bar viewing. They're great like late night viewing or having pizza next morning. There's not a lot of plot, there's, there's fun. They're not as brooding as the Halloween franchise often is. It's just fun kills 80s datedss to it. And they're probably the most enjoyable for me of the major horror franchises. Not the best, but the most enjoyable. What about you? What was your first exposure to Friday the 13th?
>> Guido: Well, exposure is different because it was so in the world. But I don't think, I don't think other than the movie we're going to talk about in just a moment which I did see when it came out, I think because this series hit a wal when I was watching horror movies in the late 90s and starting to get into horror. I don't know that I saw Friday 13th until I watched the first one with you in a movie theater probably 13 years ago. Yeah, it's pretty limited. Obviously though, there's almost no one who can grow up in the US and be interested in anything remotely horror and not know who Jason is and not know the setup of the series. But yeah, I've never won to tie.
>> Rob: It back into comics. I think that the time I was buying comics and you're a few years older than me, so you even maybe remember it more was when the last real movie in the franchise was coming out. Jason Goes to Hell, the final Friday. And it's that image of kind of the hockey mask, but not really and the SERP going through it and the flames. That was one of those things that was in every comic book at the time. So I think that was like my very first exposure having no idea who Jason was or Friday the 13th but just seeing that image and's that image is actually much better than the movie itself.
>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah. All right, well next up in chronological.
>> Rob: Order, yes we have the Evil Dead Ash Williams is a chainsaw handed wisecracking, every man turned demon slayer who battles the undead forces of the necronomicon. Debuting in 1981 in Sam Raimi's The Evil Dead and starring across three main films, a Rebootash sequel, the TV series Ash vs Evil Dead, multiple comicbook continuations and crossovers, video games, and a cult following that has made him a beloved horror action antihero.
>> Guido: Yeah.
>> Rob: what about you with the Evil Dead? I think for me this was one I probably didn't. Trying to remember if I watched it in high school or didn't even experience it until college. It was a little harder to find, like the first onele, because I don't.
>> Guido: Think they were over showing it on tv. So for me it was also college and I wasn't the biggest fan of it when I saw it for a long time, I think because the first one is just not quite as funny as the later ones. And I didn't know what to look for or appreciate at the time. And it was really as a Bruce Campbell fan later that, I think I revisited them and probably didn't even see army of darkness until 15 years ago or less. I haven't seen Evil Dead 12 or army of Darkness until very recent, maybe the last 20 years, and they're fine. I like them. I don't. I don't love them. I appreciate what Sam Raimi did and I do like Bruce Campbell and we've seen all the modern ones and neither of us are loving those, but we do go see them. So. Yeah, for you also college.
>> Rob: I might have. You know what? I think the one that I might have seen in high school, I can't remember if my friend and I would actually rent and watch all of them. We might have, but it didn't leave the lasting impression on me that these other two characters did. The one I probably saw the most was army of Darkness because that was probably the only one that was being shown on television. Because it is, I'm sure.
>> Guido: Yeah, I do. And because it's a little fantasy which those networks here in New York would always show, like fantasy movies on Sunday afternoons. So.
>> Rob: And I wasn't a Zeno watcher, but I did watch things like Briscoe County Kid, and I think it was called. Oh, Jack of All Trades was his other show. So I knew him from those and things where he would pop up in other movies and TV shows more probably than I knew the Evil Dead as a franchise. It's it'self you almost don't think of it dating back to the 80s or like that. It is of the same time as these other ones because it's not lumped in with the slashers.
>> Guido: O in part because the tone that we know of Ash and even the fact that he has a chainsaw for a hand all happens years later. So I think the fact that it debuts doesn't mean like the character as he's become so widely known and famous for doesn't quite debut in the 1981 film even though he's the star of it.
>> Rob: But well, speaking of famous, why don't you close this out with probably the most famous at least when he was in his prime. Yeah.
>> Guido: yeah. So 1984, now Freddie Krueger debuts as a sadistic razor gloved dream demon and former child killer who haunts and murders teenagers in their sleep. Originating in Wes Craven' film and Nightmare on Elm street. Appearing across nine films, a TV anthology, numerous comic books, novels, the crossover film. We're about to discuss video games, merchandise and just becoming one of horrors, probably horror's most iconic villain. And we just watched a great documentary about Robert England who plays Freddy Krueger. And they show a lot and it was fun about how just like kids were obsessed with Freddy even if they weren't allowed to see the movie, like even if they weren't horror people. There was just something about this character.
>> Rob: There was a hololering doll like with the Pee Wee doll and stuff. And then one of my favorite pieces of merchandise is there was a toaster that would burn Freddy's face into the toast, which is just so bizarre. But he was at, you know, I think his star has faded a bit behind Jason and Michael Myers over the years because they haven't been doing new movies with him to as they have with the other ones. But at the time in the 80s and probably because he talked meaning, had a 1900 number and things like that, like he was the king.
>> Guido: I remember I didn't see these movies. My sister did. We lived near an Elm street, which was terrifying to me. And my gosh, I remember fresh Elm Street, Fresh Princes, Nightmare on My Street. I loved that song and music video. So like I was totally wrapped up in zgeist too. Even though I was not seeing these movies. And again, this is a franchise I probably didn't see. I don't even know that when I was watching horror in college or beyond, if I watched these, it might be you who I sat down and watched the first start to finish of them with. So yeah, also a very recent and we've just finished our watch of the whole franchise we just watched all of the Nightmare on Elm street you hadn't seen.
>> Rob: Yeah, in high school I had seen the original and I had a very distinct memory of kind of watching it is definitely this Holy Grail iconic film that, you have to watch. And then I watched New Nightmare probably because it was part of the Scream post meta. More meta horror movies and stuff like that. But I hadn't watched any of the other films into this, in this franchise until years later and I skipped around. I think I saw Dream warriors, the third film the before I saw the second film. And then as you said, I've only recently watched the other films in the franchise when he goes full kind of Three Stooges, like Mar Brothers jokes and stuff like that. And then just recently also the TV anthology series that he's kind of the Crypt Keeper host of which is actually quite creepy. But yeah, they had escaped me. I don't know why, but I had very distinct memories like the one I just mentioned before about this blockbuster game the Tongue coming out of the phone from the first movie and that scaring me as a kid. And then definitely because he was so striking compared to, say, Jason the Stanees'at video stores like the Standee from Part five where it's like this demonic baby carriage that he has like that has just stuck in my head and even the COVID of two with it like his face on it. I don't know, I just. I just. They have stuck with me even though I actually hadn't seen those movies until 20, 30 years later.
>> Guido: Yeah, well, he is quite iconic and that wraps up the origin of our three characters. But that is not the end of our origin story because really today's alternate universe story kicks off in a little.
>> Rob: Film called Freddy vs. Jason. This is, the 2003 film from New Line Cinema youo t tell us who made this masterpiece.
>> Guido: I gotta assume that this list is short that we're reading in but in fact there's 25 other people because if you look at the Wikipedia background on this movie, it's like these three people wrote a script that was thrown out. Three more people wrote a script that was thrown out. Then this person came in to fix the script. So it's like I. This is. Yeah, but this was one of those.
>> Rob: Yeah, this is one of those development hell movies.
>> Guido: Yeah, it's directed by Ronnie Yu, produced by Sean Cunningham and a number of other people and written by Damien Shannon and Mark Swift. But it's. Yeah, it's also written by the author of our comic today though. So this, the official credits are very wrong about this movie. you, the director also directed Bride of Chucky and a lot of movies in Hong Kong. Sean Cunningham, of course, is the director of the original Fridayia 13th and the screenwriters, the official credited screenwriters, would write the 2009 Friday 13th reboot. But the story of the the script is supposedly by one of our authors today, Jeff Katz. So a lot going on there. But what happens roughly in this film?
>> Rob: So the world has forgotten about Freddy Krueger and he is left powerless in the dream dimension. So Freddy resurrects Jason Voorhees to terrorize the children of Springwood and revive the name of Freddy. But Jason keeps killing, depriving Freddy of his murder spree. And they eventually turn on each other as a group of quote unquote teens. Are they teens? Who knows? Including Destiny's Child Child'kelly Rowland run around and get knocked off one by one.
>> Guido: Yeah. So I have to start our, our listeners for, for the last four years know that we both like to be really positive about things and art that people create, even if it's not for us. But my God, I hate this movie. It is to me not a good movie. It's a great example of a movie that was utterly massacred by studios. It feels a lot like the David A Suicide Squad me, which is the other example of a movie where I'm just like, it is so unbelievably bad that you're like, how did this happen? And it can only be explained by like just the fact that it was built in a boardroom and driven toward profits and too many interests were cutting it and then, you know, whatever. So I'm not a fan of this movie.
>> Rob: I think there's a difference here too. And ah, maybe we can talk about what why this is the. A lot of the movies in the Nightmare on Elm street and Friday the 13th franchises, like people would not call good movies right. Like, and we just watched a lot of the late Nightmare street movies and people don't have a good opinion of them and yet they feel more fun, more entertaining m than this movie. Perhaps because they don't have that corporate feel. Perhaps also because 2003 still doesn't even over 20 years ago, still does not like feel like the CGI hasn't aged in the same way that those older practical optical effects have. Like, what do you think about that? Because those other movies aren't like necessarily quote unquote good, but you could sit and enjoy them much more than this which is like a slog.
>> Guido: Well, the other thing I think is where corporate interests come in and having just watched the Robert Englund documentary and having just read a great history book on Scream and learning a lot about Wes Craven. Like the other movies, even though they were independent movies. I mean, yes, they both, they were both franchises. All actually all three franchises that we're talking about today started as independent movies. And I think even though they built up and you know, New Line is known as the House that Freddie built. Right. So the studio obviously became a big player in Hollywood, certainly later in the franchise, but I think they were sort of left alone to do their thing. And horror in the 90s two still isn't becoming like a. It's profitable, clearly. But I don't think it's becoming something that could be treated as an actual Hollywood movie. Right. It still lives on the fringe, I suspect. So I do think this 2003 movie becomes too mainstream in countless ways. It, like you said, it's, it's too serious. It's not having a lot of fun. The effects and the budget and the look is too sanitized and pretty ugly. And so I just think it becomes way too mainstreamed, which is where I think it's a movie that was killed by studios.
>> Rob: Lots of new as in nu omt Metal all throughout, especially Own the Credits.
>> Guido: A soundtrack that definitely was designed to sell and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, but let's get into the story. I guess let's spend a minute with the story since it affects everything we're doing. I mean, first of all it's cool, right? There aren't countless examples of companies working together for crossovers. Our listeners, like us, I think, are really fascinated by this stuff like Marvel vs. DC and how these things happen. And so that aspect of it is neat. Like you said, it took them a long time to figure out how to do it and it. They didn't end up doing it well.
>> Rob: Well, our opinion w up partnering with another company eventually New Line did take over the Friday the 13th characters as well. So they maybe, but not in two, thousand three.
>> Guido: Right. At that point had they.
>> Rob: No, they had, they had taken it over with the Jason Goes to Hell all kind of with the plan. That's how long this was in the works was they were like, well, we're taking it over only to basically make this movie. It just took them over a decade to get this movie actually.
>> Guido: So it's a little less exciting that it's not a cross interany crossover. But it's still always cool when you have an inter property crossover because the question is, how are you going to get them together? And in this case, I think something you and I both liked. There's some kernels, in this story and one is this idea because they're both dead in this point in their canon. Both movies, franchises have essentially been said that they're over and so this was a comeback for them. It's a fun idea to have Freddy resurrect Jason and he does it by pretending to be his mother and like using his dream powers to, like, get Jason up. So that's a cool seed of something that you and I both liked.
>> Rob: It is. I think it's the best part of this movie really was like the idea that Freddy would be manipulating Jason. Freddy's like the truly evil one. Jason has some kind of redeeming quality. At least you can feel bad for him. So I think that part actually makes a lot of sense. And I love actually having a Pamela Voorhees, even though it's not the original actor, Betsy Palmer, playing her. But not even actually her.
>> Guido: Right. It's Fred.
>> Rob: He's, not actually even her too. Ye. Yeah. But I do love kind of bringing all of that in there.
>> Guido: Yeah. So I think that's a cool seed of something. I think the rest of it is really not worth anyone's time. I'm, ready to move on.
>> Rob: Yeah. So let us dive into the crystal waters of Camp Crystal Lake to explore some multiversity. So today we are asking the question, what if Jason fought Freddy and Ash from the Evil Dead? And this is Freddy versus Jason versus Ash. Ah, numbers one through six from Wild Storm at DC Comics and Dynamite. Talk about companies coming together.
>> Guido: Yeah. This is the point at which DC had bought Wild Storm, but they're still publishing it as an imprint. And then Dynamite, of course, we know from our previous episodes, had the, gosh, probably still has the ashen Evil Dead and Army of Darkness licenses and does all of that. So that's where they came together. So this is written by James Khoric, the stories by Jeff Katz. More on them in a moment. The art is by Jason Craig and it's lettered by Jared Fletcher, colored by Thomas Mason. So the writer, James Khoric, has done a lot of licensed comic books, a lot for Dynamite. So he did, some army of Darkness, he did the Fright Night series, did some Battlestar Galactica, a whole lot more. Jeff Katz produced Freddy versus Jason and supposedly had a treatment for number two that he had written that was going to be greenlit and we can get more on that in a moment. But then got scrapped. He did write comics also at some point, so I suspect he was actually involved. I didn't do enough research to see, but I don't think like he just had a document handed off to James Cahoric. I suspect Jeff Katz was actually involved in developing this story somewhat. And then the artist Jason Craig did some Wild Storm work and Evil Ernie art work. So why don't you give a summary of this six issue miniseries and then we'll dive in.
>> Rob: Okay. So in fvjva, Freddy Krueger is tracked in Jason Voorhees subconscious and seeks the Necronomicon ex mortis to regain his power and return from the dead. He manipulates Jason into retrieving the book from the Voorhees house where Ash Williams now working at the local smart is investigating reports of deadite activity. As Freddie gains godike abilities and Jason becomes more uncontrollable, Ash must's rally survivors and use his knowledge of the Necronomicon to battle both supernatural killers in a brutal final showdown for the fate of humanity.
>> Guido: So this does pick up can canonically with the end of Freddy versus Jason where Jason is the one who essentially wins but you see Jason leaving with Freddy's head and M. So this picks up from there and continues the story. Now I don't know where to start with this year.
>> Rob: One thing I liked kind of starting at the beginning here. So we actually see to our two kind of our final girl, final boy from Freddy versus Jason, Jason Redder's character. And I don't remember who the act female actor were but we, we follow those characters and then they're both. They're kind of set up in this book as our heroes again. They've come back, we'renna be following them and they are both killed off pretty.
>> Guido: Early St scre actually a little.
>> Rob: Well and the other thing though, if.
>> Guido: It were a movie, it feels like it'd be the opening sequence and you'be shocked that those two die.
>> Rob: It does well. But that, you know a movie that did that even earlier was Friday the 13th part 2. So in Friday the 13th part 2 they actually killed the final girl from Friday the 13th part 1 in the opening scene. So kind of almost a proto of this. So I was almost thinking oh, this is like a fun. And now knowing that Jeff Katz was also so tied into this and clearly a fan, it almost feels like he is hearkening back to earlier Friday 13th or scream or anything like that. So I much enjoyed that because these two characters are also quite boring. And you then realize, oh, this is why Ash is here. Because we need a heroic iconic character. Because these teenage characters are just not cutting it when we have these icons of horror.
>> Guido: Well, and it's fun how they bring him in not just through the Necronomicon outside of it, but also they have that where Camp Crystal Lake is, has developed over the last five years and they opened an srt. So it's sort of a fun. You can definitely feel the cinematic version of this as you're reading it. Like you can tell how many of these beats were in I'm assuming Jeff Caass's treatment and story. And that's one of them where like you're getting. It's five years later, which is in real time. This comic came out five years after the movie did. And so now that the Smart is opened Ash is going to like be a consultant or something in the new emart near Camp Crystal Lake. And that's how this all unfolds. Which is also a clever little twist.
>> Rob: Yeah. And there's got. It has then a little bit of very light satire, consumer satire, capitalist satire. Not very heavy handed or very, yeah, very deep. But I do like that it also has that aspect because I think that's so key to the Ash Williams character that he is this truly kind of put upon every man that just happens to also fight demons.
>> Guido: Yeah. And now I have to say I'm not a fan of this. I didn't enjoy it largely due to the art not being art that I enjoyed but also I think in part because the art, but in part just because of the writing. Like I found it a little confusing needlessly at times, just hard to follow. Not that it was like overly complex but I just found it hard to follow what was happening. But again I think like the movie, a better version of the movie. There were these seeds of the story that were really interesting to me. Like this idea of using the Necronomicon. The one thing though, if I'm understanding it correctly, the idea is that Jason is a Deadite. So what do you think about that?
>> Rob: I think it's yeah that Jason and Freddie really kind of both of them in some ways are Deadites.
>> Guido: It's so it's making big canonical lore decisions which is interesting. Obviously they can at this point because it's a comic but if you tie.
>> Rob: It back to the series a bit because like ye what now in the. In the Nightmare in Elm Streetam movies too. They then eventually introduced this lore that Freddy also has, like, this other evil energy inside of him, which could be deaditee energy, and Jason's brought back from my, like, electricity. But would that really just. That obviously doesn't actually reanimate a corpe. So maybe like, it's like, then sparking the deadite energy so you can kind of force or make some connections that I could see how they could reach that conclusion. And then you can kind of connect the dots.
>> Guido: Yeah, yeah. But that's an interesting thing to me. Like, I like that. That's ambitious. Right? It's taking these stories. And now at this point, we are dealing with so many companies, not even counting the comics publishers. But I guess if both Freddie and Jason, you're saying, were consolidated into New Line, but we know that Ash was not. So, I think Universal distributed the movies later. But we know that Sam Raimi retains ownership and Bruce Campbell retains some ownership over the characters. So there's so much going on here to make this crossover happen. I like that it's trying to add to the story. It's not just trying to say, like, ooh, let's put these three people together and see what happens with these three characters together.
>> Rob: It'think it's actually inosing story over the movie. I think in many. Sure. I think having the Ash character, I do think for the most part, they nailed his way of speaking. I could definitely see Bruce Campbell saying a lot of those lines. So I think in that way, it definitely elevates it. I do agree. And I don't know guido in your experience, since you, of course, read a lot more comics than I do. Sometimes I find, especially these more indie comics, that there's. I don't know if it's the editor. Yeah, I get confused. And it's not the plot. It's almost just like panel to panel.
>> Guido: My. So that's exactly where I think it lives. Having read, tens of thousands of comics over my lifetime, I think it does have to do with panel breakdowns. My sense of a writer who I think is still struggling to master the medium is, to me, falls in the panel breakdowns because I think that's what's unique about comics. It's, as we know from Scott McLeod's incredible work. Like, what's so unique is you have two panels and there's space in between them. And so as a storyteller, you have to figure out how to, like, show something in a panel, but then show the Next thing in the next panel and the reader can, infer what's happening in between the panels. Right in the gutters. But that's a hard thing to do. And I think the panel breakdown is where it really gets lost.
>> Rob: Ye.
>> Guido: And that's what happens in this. Like, I just don't think that it doesn't flow. There's not a sequential flow. And. And then you lose track of characters and what's happening or. Yeah, there's.
>> Rob: Yeah. And I think also some of the characters then blend together too. There's like two or three like white girls in this book know, because the.
>> Guido: Art is not very well defined. And when you're watching the movieite. Rushed.
>> Rob: Yeah. A movie, you go, oh, I can tell who it is. Because even if they look similar, they're not gonna look that similar. Right. But in the drawing it's like, that's a brown haired white woman and that's another one.
>> Guido: There's. It's lacking the detail. I think if the art improved, I think if this was really good art, I'd probably be a bigger fan of it. But I think with the art as it is and then the confusing flow of the story, I think it just didn't hit for me. But it was fun to explore. And did you catch the one other crossover that happens in issue 5? I don't think you did.
>> Rob: I don't know if I did. What was it?
>> Guido: Freddy makes a joke and I loved it because he says, I'm crushing your head. I'm crushing your head. When he's literally crushing someone's head. I did like, oh my ###h gosh, someone put kids in the hall in here. I did not get that written just for me. So yeah, I loved that moment. But that was my favorite moment of the series, I'd say.
>> Rob: Yeah. Well, overall, I'd say if you're a fan of Friday the 13th or Evil Dead or Nightmare on Elm Street, I think it's worth a read because it is fun that it's finishing the movie and continuing to tell the story and literally kind of picking up where it left off. If you're not a fan of those characters or those franchises, like, you're probably not going toa get much out of this, but if you are, I think especially this time of year, it's a fun. Fun to visit us.
>> Guido: Well, and it wasn't the end of this earth either. So let's keep going.
>> Rob: Yeah. So why don't we ponder some possibilities. So, Guido, what are we talking about for pondering possibilities.
>> Guido: Well, there is a sequel series written by the same team. So again, Jeff Katz is back for it and James Khoric. So originally supposedly it was supposed to be a 12 issue maxi series, but it got cut down to a six issue series. We. You didn't even really look at it? I skimmed it it at best. So we're not going to cover it, but why don't we read a quick summary and then we can ponder some other possibilities.
>> Rob: Yes. So in fvjva the Nightmare Warriors, Freddy Krueger is resurrected once more and joins forces with Jason Voorhees to unleash chaos upon the world by seizing control of the US government and weaponizing the Necronomicon. In response, Ash Williams teams up with the group of Nightmare Warriors. Those are survivors from The Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm street films, forming a multiverse style horror team to stop the apocalyptic threat. As reality begins to unravel under Freddy's newfound cosmic power, the group faces betrayals, resurrections and devastating losses in a climactic battle that pits horror icons against one another in a war for the soul of the world.
>> Guido: Big yes, fun. So I think this one is definitely a lot more ambitious. I don't know if they ever imagined this. I don't know if this was part of a future movie treatment or not. But one thing you mentioned liking is that it brings in even more of the lore like people that I didn't even know they were are in this series. And so I think that's probably a fun aspect for fans. This Nightmare warriors team, some of them are dream warriors from, from
>> Rob: I think you see the Dream warriors come in imaginary or in dream form with Heather Lang Camps, Nancy coming back and then a few of the characters very iconic. Tommy Jarvis, who is one of the character, who's one of the antagonists to Jason in three of the Friday 13th movies I saw makes an appearance and a whole bunch of other characters. So this is really fun if you are a fan of these franchises and I can't even imagine this would be a movie because there's no way you're getting. I don't know, some of these people were probably not even acting anymore. So I think that plus the White House, it's funny there's another, there was also a Reanimator from the Reanimator franchise. There was a fourth film in that franchise that was also going to take place in the White House. So there were know the third season.
>> Guido: Of Chucky went to the White House.
>> Rob: So there's Something about that. Yeah.
>> Guido: Taking over that seat of power. So that's the official sequel series and the only other time we saw this world and I'm guessing the only other time we will see this world. I think this world is dead and gone forever. But let's partner some other possibilities. Who. Who if not Ash? I'm going to take Ash out. Do you want to see? Since this is building from the Freddy Vers Jason movie, who would you put in with them? What. What follow up would you have to Freddy versus Jason?
>> Rob: Well, a much better comic than I think the ones we read today actually was the Leatherface Jason versus Leatherface comic that we read. And Leatherface is a really good companion to Jason because they're both deformed and they live out in the woods. But then Freddy would need a companion. And Freddy's good companion, I think could be Pinhead. Maybe the Cenoitetes. Like there's something about like the Cenoitetes worlds that has that dream.
>> Guido: Did you know that was supposed to happen at the end of the first movie I saw in research this. Yeah, but got scrapped. The m. Whatever company owns that. No New line wouldn't pay Whatever company it was for Pinhead to she at.
>> Rob: The end of the Freddie vs. Jason.
>> Guido: Of the actual movie. Yeah.
>> Rob: O interest. Yeah, I could see that. It would be interesting to have like these two more earth down earthy characters that you also kind of feel a little sorry for and then these very like otherorly characters pairing up. what do you think about that?
>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, it's fine. It's fun. It is funny that Jason has had these crossovers in the comics. Jason's had crossovers and comics we've covered them. Ash has had crossovers and comics we've covered them. But Freddie hasn't. And I don't know if that's about new line'rights permission or why he doesn't seem to get. He's had a few comic series, but he doesn't seem to get the crossover potential that these gu.
>> Rob: Part of the issue is the dream component. Like, is he gonna exist in our world? Is he existing in the dream world like Jason? You could just pop in anywhere. He's just like now a giant hulking zombie with a machete. So he's pretty easy to work in. But I think, yeah, when you get into the dream aspect, it gets a little bit more complicated.
>> Guido: My choice would be Chucky. I think you could throw Chucky in anything and I'd enjoy it. But Chucky here would be. He'd Play the ash rol. But he'd be not the heroash anti hero. He'd be another villain. But I think that would be fun. And I don't know, there might be something interesting that a good storyteller could do. What you're saying in terms of Freddie existing in dreams, it's like. Well, just. I don't know. Chucky sort of exists on another plane too. Right. He's like a soul put into a doll.
>> Rob: Yeah.
>> Guido: So I think there's probably a way you could connect him to Freddy there. I don't know why Jason's around, but whatever, you can figure that out.
>> Rob: Yeah. And if you had the Tiffany character, you could see that Tiffany maybe pairs up with Freddy to, like, take on Chucky together because there's always, like, she's always shifting her allegiances as well.
>> Guido: Yeah. So, yeah, I think that would be fun.
>> Rob: Interestingly, the one that is probably this, well, has certainly at this point made the most money, which is the Halloween franchise. Michael Myers is never, to my knowledge, had a crossover with any of these characters. I don't know.
>> Guido: I don't think.
>> Rob: I don't know why. I don't know if they are just super protective again of his, of that license and. And since they most recently had these very hugely successful movies at the box office. But yeah, he's never. He's never crossed over.
>> Guido: No. It's funny because he went schlocky in the 90s too. Like, so it's not like. It's not like they've had tight control, quality control over this canonical arc. So I'm curious if. I'm sure he was up for consideration in Freddy vs Jason, but for whatever reason, ye never panned out or.
>> Rob: Yeah, I guess maybe one thing is there. There's actually never been a Halloween movie that has not had either Laurie Strode or Sam Loomis in it. And at this point, maybe there will have to be if they resurrect the franchise, but maybe they were figuring, oh, do we include one of those other two iconic characters also? And where does it fall in the timeline? Are they dead? I mean, the Halloween has the most confusing timeline of any of these movies, depending on what you take his canon. So I don't know, maybe that was all part of it as well.
>> Guido: Yeah, yeah.
>> Rob: I don't know.
>> Guido: I don't know. So back to before we wrap up Freddy versus Jason. Do you think this movie is ever gonna happen again?
>> Rob: no, I don't think.
>> Guido: Does it get a do over?
>> Rob: I don't think so. I think I think one of the big difficulties with reviving the Nightmare on Elm street series is how connected Robert Enggllin was to the role. And that's not something you have to really worry about with most of these other horror icons because they wear masks so you don't see their face or something like that. So I think that is a struggle. I think it was one of the things that people didn't like about the remake with Jackie Earl Halilley. So I don't know. I think that will be a big. That's a big hurdle for them to overcome to even bring that character back. As we're gonna see with the new Friday the 13th miniseries, like, that's much easier. Well, who knows? We don't even know where Jason's gonna be in that line up because it's gonna be mostly on his mother.
>> Guido: No. And I guess if they re established the characters, maybe they'd cross over the re established versions. But, yeah, as we know, there's been no talk of reviving Nightmare on Elm Street. And I don't know why you'd revive these characters just to smush them together again, like you said you could revive. I guess if they own both, that's why. But I was thinking you could explore the Michael Myers scenario that you were just describing, perhaps a few years.
>> Rob: Ago when the MCU was even more of a rage and you had Universal trying to do also, like their own combined universe, that it could have been something. But now I think a lot of people are seeing the difficulty of doing that.
>> Guido: Ah.
>> Rob: And keeping it going. So I think it would be less of an appealing idea to audiences and studios at this point to do a shared universe of all these characters.
>> Guido: Yeah, agreed. But we can always dream. or our comic book is going.
>> Rob: To dream or scream.
>> Guido: All right, well, I think that about does it. Let's close the Necronomicon on this chapter. Let's wake up out of our dream state. And that is a wrap. Dear Watchers, thank you for listening. I have been Guido, your dream master.
>> Rob: I have been your dream warrior. Ro.
>> Guido: The reading and watching list is in the show notes, and please do follow us online at Deer Watchers, Let us know your dream team up with Freddy.
>> Rob: Versus Jason, and we'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.
>> Guido: In meantime, keep pondering the possibilities.