#237 - Inside Founders & Funders with Alex Michaelsen from Leisure Hydration and Alex Malamatinas from Melitas Ventures

In this episode of the Startup CPG Podcast, host Daniel Scharff recaps the biggest investor event of the year—Founders & Funders—with two standout guests: Alex Malamatinas, founder of Melitas Ventures, and Alex Michealsen, founder and CEO of Leisure Hydration. Together, they pull back the curtain on what it's really like to be in the room: from the 10-minute speed dating meetings to the panel content, the VC dinner, and the hard-won fundraising lessons early-stage founders need to hear.

Alex Malamatinas shares what makes a founder truly stand out in a short meeting—charisma, clear vision, and product differentiation—and why meeting in person unlocks things a deck simply can't. Alex Michealsen breaks down his methodical approach to pitching: leading with questions for the investor, then firing off the numbers that matter most (velocity, contribution margin, channel performance) before the bell rings. He also introduces the "CPG triangle"—margin, velocity, and cash flow management—as the framework every operator should run every decision through.

The conversation covers the nuances of margin (why contribution margin is the only one that truly matters when running a business), how to build investor relationships over years rather than days, and why the prep work before an event like Founders & Funders is just as important as the meetings themselves. Both guests also offer candid feedback on how to make the event even better next year.

Whether you're an early-stage brand trying to break into the investor ecosystem, a founder preparing your first pitch, or just trying to understand what VCs are actually looking for, this episode delivers honest, tactical insight from two people who've been on both sides of the table.

Listen in as they discuss:

• The Founders & Funders format: curated one-on-one meetings, 70 VCs, 160 brands, and 600+ meetings in a day
• What makes a founder stand out in a 10-minute meeting: vision, charisma, and knowing your numbers cold
• Alex Michealsen's pitch framework: interview the investor first, then lead with velocity and contribution margin
• The CPG triangle: why margin, velocity, and cash flow management are the only three things that matter as an operator
• Margin explained clearly: product margin vs. gross margin vs. contribution margin—and why contribution is king
• Why beverage brands' Amazon contribution margin is often lower than retail despite higher gross margin
• Building investor relationships over years, not days—and why most of Leisure's investors took two years to close
• PR and content from the event: hot deals of 2025, trends vs. fads, real talk on margins, deal terms 101, and a keynote with Paul Vogue
• Ideas for leveling up Founders & Funders: wildcard meetings for early-stage brands and mixed founder-investor social events
• The Startup CPG Roadshow: a mobile version of Founders & Funders coming to major cities in 2025
  
  

Episode Links: 

Founders and Funders: fandf.startupcpg.com

Alex Malamatinas – Founder & Managing Partner, Melitas Ventures
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-malamatinas-17a25124/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/melitasventures/

Alex Michealsen – Co- Founder & CEO, Leisure Hydration 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-michaelsen-35b395162/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/leisure-hydration/

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Show Links:

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• Questions or comments about the episode? Email Daniel at [e-mail]
• Episode music by Super Fantastics
  
  

Creators and Guests

Host

Daniel Scharff

Founder/CEO, Startup CPG

What is The Startup CPG Podcast?

The top CPG podcast in the world, highlighting stories from founders, buyer spotlights, highly practical industry insights - all to give you a better chance at success.

Alex Michaelsen
I think it's really important to not put too many people at the table. If you get 10 people giving you advice, you're going to get 10 different responses and a lot of them are going to be in completely opposite directions. So I think finding the right people at different stages and in different parts of the industry that can guide you is super impactful. But then not always taking advice at face value. Like, I think it's really important and something that's helped us a lot is getting advice, digesting it, and then contextualizing it to your business.

00:44
Daniel Sharff
Hello, friends. Back in December, startup CPG put on the biggest investor event of the year. It's called Founders and Funders. We had the 70 most active VCs, the top 160 brands of the year, and we facilitated more than 600 one one meetings. I'd love for you to hear all about what it was actually like to be at this unforgettable event, both from the brand and VC perspective. So today's guests are from Melitas Ventures and Leisure Hydration. They're going to tell you exactly like it was. Applications for next year will open in a few months. So stay tuned in our Slack channel and also check out the end of this episode for announcement about some new investor events we'll be launching around the country. All right, enjoy. All right, welcome everybody. Welcome, Alex and Alex. This is going to be a really fun one.

01:35
Daniel Sharff
I'm so happy. To recap our Founders and Funders event that happened in December. So we have two very distinguished guests today. I wonder if we could start with both of you. And because you're both named Alex, I will use a very formal Alex from Leisure and Alex from Melitas as we're going through the interview today. So maybe I'll start with Alex from Melitas. Do you mind hitting us with the quick intro?

01:57
Alex Malamatinas
Absolutely. So I'm Alex. I'm the founder of Melitas Ventures. We are a New York based venture capital firm that invests in better for you consumer brands. We focus on early stage Seed Series A. Some of the brands we've invested include Magic Spoon, a la Pop, nom, Dose, Amara, just to name a few.

02:19
Daniel Sharff
Heard of those. All right, Bunch of hits. Love it. No wonder that you are one of the most desirable VCs for people to get meetings with at the event. Okay, cool. Alex from Leisure, do you mind hitting us with a quick intro as well?

02:31
Alex Michaelsen
Absolutely. I'm Alex Michaelsen. I'm the founder and CEO of Leisure Hydration. Started it with my brother, a Little over three years ago and we are a next gen hydration drink brand. So better for you. Hydration drinks with benefits for the mind and body really positioned as more of like a next generation vitamin water. You can find us nationally in Whole Foods. I'm in about 3,000 other stores today.

02:57
Daniel Sharff
I love it. That's so good. I was so excited the first time I walked into a Whole Foods and just saw a plethora of facings for our friends at leisure. It was so much fun. I took a photo and sent it to you guys. It was really incredible to see just because I feel like I kind of grew up with you guys because I was out there in the beverage game also in the west side of LA and just learning from you guys and seeing all the cool progress that you had. So what a nice thing to see how quickly you all have grown up. So, Alex from Leisure, maybe just starting with you.

03:26
Daniel Sharff
I remember I was talking to you and your brother about this event early on and I think I remember you even sending me a message like, hey, is this event even going to be like, good, Should I go to this? I don't know. What made you not sure if you wanted to attend at the beginning?

03:38
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah, were already in the middle of a round that had made some progress and just wasn't sure if this was the event to go to. Part of me was like, am I going to be taking away from other people that are just starting their fundraising journey? Part of it was going across the country when we're already in the middle of it. But I think at the end of the day we'll get into this later. I'm sure it's. It's just important to have IRL connections with people and having touch points with investors at different stages in the growth. So ended up making the decision to come because I wanted to first and foremost get to catch up with the startup CPG team, but also have the opportunity to chat with all the investors.

04:18
Alex Michaelsen
And there was a good range of investors from seed to series A to growth. So it's always good to meet people in person versus on zoom.

04:27
Daniel Sharff
I love it. Okay, so our intention with creating founders and funders, I think Alex from Leisure, you probably have a lot of the connections already out there that a lot of brands would want. You guys have of good traction points already, some good growth and you're well networked out there. But you know, even for you guys, I think there were a lot of VCs you probably had not met yet. We were able to dig up and get to attend the event. But really what we wanted was to create this event where we could get all of the most active investors into one room and create this incredibly efficient way for those IRL discussions to happen. Because I just always remember Paul from ourobora talking on our podcast about how he spent throughout the life of his business 50% of his time fundraising.

05:09
Daniel Sharff
So if we can just cut some of that time down by getting everyone to one room, that's what we love to do. So that's what we wanted. Alex from Melitas, we wanted you to also just get a look at a bunch of very investable brands. Because this was a curated event, we had a ton of over subscribed applications for it, we had a committee going through and actually selecting the brands we thought were the most ready for this kind of an event. Did it feel like that to you, Alex from Melitas, going in?

05:37
Alex Malamatinas
It did. Firstly, it was great buzz, great energy and it felt that everybody was there, right? It felt like all the top founders, investors, lawyers, headhunters, everybody was in that relatively small, limited space, which is great. And you don't get that at a lot of events these days. So it felt clearly curated and to your point, there were talented founders and it was largely actionable, I don't think. You know, as an investor, you don't typically go to these conferences expecting to find one investment opportunity, let alone potentially one or two. So I think that was pretty unique.

06:17
Daniel Sharff
Great. And I'm really glad that was your experience. We're hyper focused on it being really efficient for everybody, which includes the VCs. So as you know, when the brands were accepted, we had all of them fill out this one pager that we spent a lot of time making sure it was just tight and beautiful. And the brands crushed it and showed their traction points and their fundraising history so much about the brand. And were able to share that huge one pager booklet, 160 brands, with you and all the other investors. And then we asked you to pick brands that you would have. Yeah, you're holding it up now. I've got mine here too. And so then we asked you to pick brands that you would like to actually have a one one meeting with at the event.

06:57
Daniel Sharff
The reason we did that is because we don't want any misconnections. We don't want you not to see a brand just because you don't bump into them at the event. That's devastating for a brand that's really eager to get in front of you. And you know, you've got current stuff that you're looking for, so we want to give you all that up front. What was that like to get the one pager booklet sent to you as you're looking through. What are you thinking, looking through all of the brands?

07:19
Alex Malamatinas
No, it was really helpful because, you know, often you show up at these events or conferences and you sort of don't know what necessarily to expect or who you're going to run into. And so ahead of the event you could see which founders, which brands were attending and you could sort of select which you wanted to meet with. So I think that resulted in a very sort of efficient use of time meeting companies that you're interested in and that are potentially actionable.

07:48
Daniel Sharff
Amazing. All right, Alex from Leisure, have you done investor events before?

07:53
Alex Michaelsen
I don't really think much exists like this format. I've certainly gone to dinners or networking events because there were going to be a good amount for a specific investor I wanted to meet with. But I have never been to an event like this specifically. There are certain investor like events that float around generally that sometimes feel from a founder's perspective, scammy. And this one felt authentic. You guys were just genuinely looking to connect founders and funders.

08:26
Daniel Sharff
I love that and I really appreciate you saying that because that is why we did this is there just isn't anything in this industry that puts all of the most active VCs and brands looking for funding into one place. So when you actually got to the event, did it feel like you're just pitching all day or did you feel like no, these are really focused conversations that I'm having with people I know and people I wanted to meet. What was it somewhere in between that? What was the actual experience like on the day of for you? Alex from Leisure?

08:56
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah, I didn't have any expectations coming in so I had no idea what to prepare for just on my end. So I kind of wanted to come in bright eyed and see what would happen. I got the schedule a couple days before And I had 15 meetings for two and a half hours straight. But honestly, 10 minute meetings, they go quick and the first couple hours is a lot of fun reconnecting with I'd say probably 8 of the 15 I already knew and have had ongoing threads with and then good to meet some new people as well. But I think it wasn't too exhausting. I think it's a good format. I think the most important thing for founders and I think even more so earlier stages that I wish I had this a couple years ago.

09:36
Alex Michaelsen
The hardest Part is getting the initial contact to build the relationship and trust with an investor to get into kind of like the ecosystem breaking in. So this was like a really good opportunity I think for founders at every stage to get exposure.

09:52
Daniel Sharff
I love that. And just pro tip for people, you can look on the website and see who is there and hopefully that helps guide people a little bit about who the right contacts are. We also on our website have a list of the most active VCs. It's under founder Resources databases on our website. So it is our wish for all of you to cut down that time just trying to figure out who's there. So Alex, we really did try to get absolutely the most active VCs. We did a whole research project about this ahead of time. When you think about that big logo splash of the 70 VCs were there, whether you knew them or whether you didn't, did you feel like, yes, there are some really relevant ones here for us as a beverage company for example, a hundred percent.

10:34
Alex Michaelsen
I mean I think just looking at the logo splash on the screen during the talking sessions, it was. You guys covered a pretty big percentage of the active investor list. I think there's also a good amount of firms on the list that are actively investing in beverage, which is over the last five years started to whittle down a little bit smaller than it was before. And I also think it was cool to see people that write pre seed, people that write seed and people that write growth. I don't know, I probably spoke to three or four different funds that are writing checks more in that 10 to 30 million range, which I think isn't immediately relevant for any brand there, but it becomes relevant in a couple years. So it's really interesting and important to talk to people at different stages.

11:18
Alex Michaelsen
And I thought it was fun to have that many different people in the room, especially for the amount of time there was to network and just walk around and meet people.

11:26
Daniel Sharff
Yeah, I love that point. And we really did go for variety. We wanted for the investors, we wanted to give them a bit of everything across all different categories. Beverage, food, beauty, health, all that stuff. And for the brands we are very focused on people who will write early stage checks from pre seed to seed. But then we absolutely wanted some of the most important people from those later stages there because I think it's really helpful from a content perspective also that's actually pretty exciting for the early stage VCs as well because they do co invest with stuff and end up doing deals together. So that ended up being a really beautiful thing. So, Alex from Melitas, I know you guys get pitched all the time.

12:05
Daniel Sharff
You see a lot of deal flow as just I think one of the VCs that people are generally most interested in out there. So what made you want to come to an event like this instead of being comfy, sitting in your lovely office, just getting all these pitches and warm intros from people that I'm sure you're flooded with all the time?

12:25
Alex Malamatinas
Firstly, I think there's something special that comes from bringing all these people under one roof. And it's not always clear what that's going to be, if it's sort of a passing conversation or an added connection. So these sort of intangible things are something that you can't really necessarily anticipate but you know, can be meaningful. And then from a brand perspective, yeah, we get sent a lot of Dex, but it's very different meeting founders in person. I mean, I think to me that's probably the most exciting part of the job. And of course we meet founders in person, but it's rare that you meet so many and get the opportunity to do These sort of 10 minute speed dating type meetings.

13:10
Daniel Sharff
What is it? Do you, what are some of the things that have surprised you when you've seen a deck and maybe you've been lukewarm on it or not interested and then you met the founder and you're like, no, I am interested. Now what is something that a founder might make an impression on you about that could have you completely flip your perspective on them?

13:28
Alex Malamatinas
I mean, charisma, sharing a vision. You know, it's very hard to like get so excited by a deck alone, particularly at early stage. I think, you know, once you get to sort of later stages, there's more numbers, more traction. These are, those are things you can get easily excited about. But when there is limited traction, it's really a lot of it is the vision and how the founder articulates that vision and the product differentiation. And I think that can come to life in a much more meaningful way when you meet in person.

14:00
Daniel Sharff
All right, and so tell me a little bit more about the actual one one experience because we time these things right. It's a really funny thing to see because you walk into this room and we have 30 tables going at the same time with an incredible VC sitting at each one of them. And then a cowbell rings and then switch and all of a sudden the all the brands run in for their next meeting, there's a swap out and then 10 minutes goes fast. Right. And then at the end you're going to hear that bell again and you got to get up because someone else is coming in. So you as a vc, you just sit there and have tons of meetings right in a row like that. What are those like? Is that a good amount of time?

14:38
Daniel Sharff
Does that help you have a productive first point of contact with them?

14:42
Alex Malamatinas
Well, firstly, I appreciate the organization that goes into this. It's not this capping easy event to organize and I feel privileged being on the VC side where we didn't have to move table. So you definitely made it easy for us. And yeah, the time goes really quickly. But I think if you focus on the key points as the investor or the founder, I think you can come away from that meeting at least with a conclusion of yes, I want to learn more, I'd like to have a follow up meeting and learn more about the company or not. Right. But at least you get that clarity.

15:18
Daniel Sharff
What is the flow of a meeting like that for you? Typically, you know, there's the clock is ticking. Do you just start with introductions and then do you have questions you want to ask them or you basically just have them give you their elevator pitch and then ask a few things that were on your mind?

15:32
Alex Malamatinas
I mean, I generally have a set but of very basic questions that I find helpful to be addressed within such a short period of time. I'll tend to leave it to the founder because maybe they want to cover a few topics and then try to steer the conversation if I'm not getting clarity on some of these key points and it's really high level things like founder background, what's their vision, what's the market opportunity, what's the product, what's differentiated about it, what's the stage? Can you mention some high level numbers? You know, in terms of revenue, are you looking to raise? What are your goals and objectives?

16:11
Daniel Sharff
Do you remember from any of these very famous investments that you've made? Ollipop, Magic Spoon. Do you remember if there was a particular answer you heard from one of those founders or another one of those companies to those kind of questions that made you just really pay attention and get excited?

16:29
Alex Malamatinas
Yes, I think there's a few. I mean, I think Gabby from Magic Spoon, you know, we're meeting at a coffee shop in Flatiron and he just very clearly articulated how cereal is a very large category and there hasn't been innovation in decades and this is their innovation. You showed me visuals and showed me the product and you know, at the time it was a lot easier to Sell cereal online. Not that it was easy, but I think these days it's more challenging. And that resonated with me. And obviously Gabby's a very smart, charismatic founder, so I was convinced.

17:03
Daniel Sharff
All right, so Alex from Leisure, I know that probably you were catching up with some, with let's say half of the meetings. The investors that you already had a relationship with for the ones that you hadn't. What is your approach to a 10 minute meeting? What are you going to try to accomplish?

17:16
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah, well, I think recognizing that 10 minutes isn't a lot of time and there isn't a ton of time for fluff. So my approach was if I don't know the investor get like a 30 to 60 second rundown of who are they, what is their role at the firm, what stage does the firm look at and just like general things around their thesis and what they're looking to do, maybe understanding what they've invested in. You kind of want to find out what are they wanting to know. And then you can tailor your pitch to make sure you're getting them the information that they're looking for.

17:49
Alex Michaelsen
And then I was probably giving a couple minute introduction into the founder story when we launched the opportunity we saw and kind of the positioning of our product and then of our brands and then quickly having the most important numbers memorized and contextualized. So what is your margin? What is your contribution margin? Where are you in retail and what does your velocity look like? What does that compare to in the category? What is coming down the pipeline? What are the opportunities ahead of you? Having every single one of those things kind of memorized and ready to go is super important. I mean everywhere the most important things are velocity and margin and how big is the category and those types of things. So having that ready to fire is kind of the place to focus.

18:34
Alex Michaelsen
And then hopefully once you get that out of the way, they have follow up questions and you can start to get into more of the meat of it. But you don't want to leave a 10 minute meeting with an investor not knowing what margins look like and what velocity looks like.

18:47
Daniel Sharff
That feels like a super pro answer to me. That was really impressive how you actually started more about interviewing them. I feel like if I was a brand pitching a vc, I'd just be like too excited and I'd sit down and I would just vomit out of my mouth all the stuff I was excited about by brand. But it seems like that is a very cool headed rationale way to approach them where you would really impress them. Just with your understanding of how it works. Alex from Melitas, you actually, you were one of the panels with us, and the panel that you did was how to vet or how investors evaluate brands. So if you're evaluating a brand, does something like that really impress you when they're actually asking you that?

19:29
Alex Malamatinas
Yes. And also gauging just what's relevant to you, rather than just, hey, here's my deck. I want to go through the whole thing because you might really want to focus one or two things and the rest of it you might have read or you don't think is relevant. So. Absolutely. And yeah, always good when there's some numbers relevant numbers shared, like sales velocities and contribution margins, because you don't. You rarely get that volunteered and you rarely get that answer when you ask for them.

19:59
Daniel Sharff
I love it. And can you tell me a little bit more about your experience doing the panel and with any of the content that you saw from around the day? And just to recap for people, we really put a lot of effort into having good content. We were very fortunate to have a couple different VCs look at our content plan. So just to recap it, we started off with hot deals of 2025, where we had a few different VCs recap some of the biggest deals that they had done over the year, why they did it, what they saw, what's happened since, all of that stuff. Then we had a really cool one on what's in and what's out, where people just literally listed all the trends that we're seeing right now.

20:33
Daniel Sharff
And everybody said whether they thought it was a trend or a fad, something that would be lasting or was going to fizzle out. And there were some very hot takes on that one. It was really cool. We had real talk on margins. And so Alex from Leisure mentioned about contribution margin. There were great discussions during that. In fact, Alex, I think maybe you even told me from it. Like, that was actually a great panel. That was one of the first times I've really heard a very good definition of all of the different margins during that. Am I remembering that right?

21:01
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah. It took me a couple years to kind of figure out what the hell everyone was talking about on margin. And oftentimes when you hear it on podcasts or LinkedIn or events, it's just not everyone is saying a contradictory definition. And oftentimes it's not what is correct. But that panel was the first time that I've heard it in a super impressive, clear, actionable way for founders to Think about their business.

21:27
Daniel Sharff
And how would you. To put you on the spot, how would you explain it to all those founders out there who could maybe benefit from your interpretation of it, of margin?

21:37
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah. Well, I think when you're first getting started, everyone focuses on products margin because it's the highest number and you can talk about how good it is. But the more sophisticated the investors you work with, the more they'll see through that. And I think ultimately, as a founder, there's only one margin that matters and it's contribution margin, because that is the operating expense budget that your business has that will determine what the bottom line looks like. So you obviously want to focus on all of gross and on contribution. So product is going to be the sale price minus the cogs. The gross margin is going to come after you deduct all of the trade spend and deductions minus the cogs.

22:16
Alex Michaelsen
And then contribution, you're going to be adding in the warehousing, logistics, freight, the cost of selling the product, and then that all feeds into the bottom part of the P and L. So when you're making decisions, contribution margin is like the only thing when looking at the total business. Now, it does get helpful though, to look at gross versus contribution by channel, because, for example, your gross margin will be higher on Amazon and E Com because your sale price is likely 2x your wholesale price. But your contribution margin as a beverage, I will guarantee will be lower on Amazon than retail because the cost of shipping liquid across the country in one case versus pallets is drastic. So it's important to understand all of them. But I do think that contribution is the most important when operating a business.

23:07
Daniel Sharff
Alex from Melitas, how is that? Is that how indeed how you guys really like to look at it?

23:12
Alex Malamatinas
It really is. I thought that was a great description. In fact, I think I discussed it one of your podcasts with Hannah. So it's something we really focus on across all categories, as Alex pointed out, even more so in Veverage. So it's something we calculate if a founder is at least aware and, you know, can share some of that information with us. It's very helpful.

23:34
Daniel Sharff
All right. And so I kind of diverted away from my question. Alex from Melitas. But coming back to it, how was the panel for you? Did you hear any cool perspectives? You were on there with Ryan Springer from Midnight Ventures and William Courtner from Prelude Growth Partners. Was it. How'd you like the discussion? Was there anything that was new or interesting for you? I know you do this stuff all the time.

23:55
Alex Malamatinas
Yeah, I Enjoyed sort of hearing the various perspectives. I think William, you know, invested a slightly later stage. I think Ryan, it's some combination. So I think there were some overlapping answers but also slightly different perspectives. And I found the overall set up very approachable. It was great to speak with founders and other people in the audience immediately after the panel.

24:21
Daniel Sharff
I love it. And yeah, I was super excited to get those guys there. And Ryan, I know is an investor in Leisure as well, so I'm sure he was happy to see you guys there. The other panels that we did flipping the script, how to vet an investor. And I feel like Alex from Leisure would be very good at that because he knows all the right questions to ask. But I really appreciated having that panel because it is important. You don't want to just go to the dance with anyone who will take you because it's a long relationship. Right. Especially at the early stages. Hopefully you can find the right kind of partners. And then we did a really cool one deal terms 101, an insider look.

24:56
Daniel Sharff
And the idea for that was really supposed to be hey brands, here are some things you should really be asking for or be wary of. When you get those term sheets and the requests that are coming in here are the things that could really change the game for you. So that was the main stuff and then we capped it off with an incredible keynote. It was so much fun. So we had the guy who did the Fireside chat for it. So the interviewer was David Bell, Alex from Melitas, you know him as he was a professor at Wharton when were there and was is like the legend of D2C because he was the early advisor and investor for some of the most incredible D2C companies that ever were, including Harry's and Warby Parker and Diapers.com, cotopaxi, Caraway, Touchland. That was really cool.

25:43
Daniel Sharff
And he interviewed Paul Vogue from our Bora who basically I don't think he's doing anything in CPG now, but he just has like been such a great transparent podcast guest for us with so many learnings and vision from the industry and he just basically let us all have it. It was so good. It was just here are all the things that I learned from this journey and not being PC about it. It was just really hard hitting. I was so excited to see that. And then Alex from Melitas also, we really excited to get to do a dinner with the VCs the night before.

26:16
Daniel Sharff
Honestly, our goal for it is we really believe that it's super helpful for VCs to be in close contact with each other because you guys do like to give each other a heads up like, hey, we're going to do this deal, do you want to come in on it? Or it's not right for us. Maybe it's really helpful for someone else we love when we can help facilitate some of the connections. Do you mind telling me a little bit about what your experience was like at that dinner? There were, you know, it was a 50 person dinner. Do you know all those VCs already? Were you able to meet new people? What kind of discussions were you having?

26:42
Alex Malamatinas
I know most of them and yeah, I think you did a great job getting all the top investors in one room and I think it's impressive that everybody shows up. There's a lot of events and conferences to attend. So I thought it was a great turnout and there were several investors that I hadn't seen in a long time or some that you just know in a virtual Covid world. So it was really good again, seeing people in person. And then there's also sort of a recency bias as you point out. Like as VCs, we're sharing opportunities, but there's a sense of sharing deals with the people that you're in regular contact with or if you bump to someone at one of these events and then you start talking and you see why there might be sort of relevant opportunities for you to collaborate on.

27:28
Alex Malamatinas
So I thought it was great.

27:30
Daniel Sharff
All right, Alex from Leisure. So I think you've covered some of this already, but just to ask you kind of that same Paul Vogue type question, what advice do you have for brands? Looking back on this amazing journey that you guys have had, everybody has learnings along the way from a fundraising perspective. Anything that you would really hope for earlier stage brands trying to get on that leisure trajectory.

27:53
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah, and it's actually something I learned from Paul earlier on, because I used to call him all the time with questions. So that's one thing is finding a small group of people that can help give you feedback and point you in the right direction. A lot of emphasis on the word small. I think it's really important to not put too many people at the table. If you get 10 people giving you advice, you're going to get 10 different responses and a lot of them are going to be in completely opposite directions. So I think finding the right people at different stages and in different parts of the industry that can guide you is super impactful. But then not always taking advice at face value.

28:34
Alex Michaelsen
Like I think it's really important and something that's helped us a lot is getting advice, digesting it and then contextualizing it to your business. Because what Paul does in sparkling water versus someone in salty snacks is not going to be the same for RTD Hydration. And maybe they won in 2019 and we're operating in 2026 and it's a completely different ball game. So I think it's like not what they said but why are they saying it? And then how do I take that well intentioned advice and think about how I can implement it? Or maybe not at all, but I think for fundraising understanding it's going to be a long road and it's going to feel impossible in the beginning unless you already have the relationships you slowly need to make connections and meet people over a long period of time.

29:22
Alex Michaelsen
A lot of the investors in our business we met and would talk to every couple months for a couple years and it took two years to kind of build the trust to where the business got to a point where they were comfortable entering. So I think a lot of when you start to look at an event like this, a lot of the work is done before the event building the relationships. Ideally when you go to a founders and funders or an expo or a bevnet, it's not your first time meeting them, but it's your follow up touchpoint and you're able to give them a couple of quick updates, move on with the day and then you follow up after the event. But I think it's not 2021 anymore. It's not 2020 anymore.

30:00
Alex Michaelsen
You have to run a good business and you have to understand your business. I've been working with this concept of the CPG triangle and on all three sides you have margin, velocity and cash flow management. Those are the only three things that matter as an operator of a business because they all tie in to everything. And if your velocity is good, that means the branding is good, the packaging is good, your marketing is effective, you're getting repeat purchase, your margin's important because it's the oxygen to the P and L. But without margin velocity doesn't matter. And without velocity margin doesn't matter. And none of that matters. Without cash flow management. If you don't have cash in the bank to pay for marketing, to buy your inventory and to build your team, none of that, the rest of it matters.

30:44
Alex Michaelsen
So I think making every decision through that triangle, how does this decision affect margin, velocity and cash flow and then also understanding your strategy? So when you talk to investors you can Say, this is how we're going to go about it. Here's what it's going to do to these three things. We also have the option to go maybe more aggressive or maybe softer on the plan, and that's how it'll increase margin or will temporarily decrease margin. But we're able to grow a lot faster. Being able to really understand the numbers and contextualize it has been important. And I will say, some people have said that the only reason they got across the line of investing was because our margins were good. And had the margins not been as good, they wouldn't have been as excited about the other things.

31:26
Alex Michaelsen
So I think it's just very important to prioritize that.

31:29
Daniel Sharff
I love that. The CPG triangle. Ding. That's really cool. And, you know, talking about that prep work, part of the prep work is just building a good business. Right. So that it's just ready to talk to people about, like, having the right margins in place already, not just doing your homework ahead of the event. But yeah, we did ask you guys to do a little bit of homework, right? We asked you to fill out the application. And then also the one pager. So the one pager. Honestly, like, I hate when people ask me to do anything, but we really felt like those one pagers were critical to this. We had one page that was a standardized template. We tried to make it very beautiful. That just had completely prescriptive sections that were just, yeah, like, what is your fundraising history?

32:11
Daniel Sharff
What's the traction of the business? Key data points, all that stuff does that fall into. Were you really intent on doing a great job on that, or is that pretty easy for you to churn out at this point because you just know your business so well and have all these conversations, it's very easy now.

32:25
Alex Michaelsen
I would have spent an incredible amount of time on that earlier in the business. In the beginning, though, and everyone has a different journey. We did not know what were doing. I didn't know what mar. How to calculate margin when we started. So doing an exercise like this was like a whole production. We're at a different point in the business now where I think we have very clear, like, bullet points. If we're looking at velocity, like, I can tell you the 1, 2, and 3, the best data stories we can tell you. If we're talking about financials, like, you kind of know the margin, the revenue. So it was fairly simple to get that going. I would say, though, in the beginning, there isn't much data in any part of your business.

33:03
Alex Michaelsen
And, you know Maybe your margin is X, but it's not really proven over a long enough period of time to know if that's truly your margin. You maybe haven't even received the deduction yet from UNIFI or KHI to know what that is. So I think it depends on the stage, but it's definitely important to be able to convey the most important things very quickly for someone to understand.

33:22
Daniel Sharff
All right, that's a great answer. So in a second, I'm actually going to ask you both for some feedback on the event, like, what do you think we could do next year to make it even better? But, Alex from ltos, I'm just curious. Was there one meeting that you had that was very special? You don't have to give the name of the brand or anything, but I wonder if you just could describe maybe if there was one that really stood out to you. Maybe you already knew it going in or maybe you just realized it during the meeting. But can you just tell us a little bit about it?

33:47
Alex Malamatinas
Yeah. It was a brand that I think I had heard of or I come across, but I'd never met the founder. It's a category that I'm very familiar with. And so I was very impressed about how the founder, you know, very clearly articulated why their product and brand is differentiated and showed me kind of that competitive chart and their positioning talked me through it, had the product, and I walked away from the meeting wanting to learn more and thinking, wow, this is something that, despite my incoming skepticism about the category, you know, there's something I could potentially invest in.

34:29
Daniel Sharff
All right, and also, just quick follow up. Is there some unicorn company out there that you're looking for? Like, hey, if somebody out there is in this kind of a space with this kind of a margin, this kind of attraction, hit me up. Is there something out there that you're just like the golden goose if anyone listens to this and is that company, they need to reach out to you and tell you it sounds like Alex.

34:51
Alex Malamatinas
Is building that company.

34:52
Daniel Sharff
I want to know, doesn't it?

34:54
Alex Malamatinas
His contribution margin and his sales velocities. I mean, beverages is very scalable, and he has a beautiful brand.

35:01
Daniel Sharff
All right, I'll take it. So it sounds like then for you, really?

35:04
Alex Malamatinas
Yeah.

35:04
Daniel Sharff
A lot of it will be around having all of those key things in place and knowing your way around the CPG triangle. Ding. Okay, so, Alex from Leisure, let's start with you. What do you think that we could do next year to make the event even more productive? And I can also. I can Share some of the things that we know. We want to try to level up even more.

35:24
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah. I think for earlier stage founders that have less data and their one pager inherently is going to be less attractive because they have had less time in the market to achieve things. I think it would be valuable to have some sort of system that ensures that they have more meetings. Whether that's like some sort of matchmaking process of this investor might like this type of category and making sure they get meetings. Because I do know some founders had one meeting or two meetings or three meetings and then some people had 10, 15 meetings. So I think making sure that everyone is getting touch points.

36:03
Daniel Sharff
I love that we could do wild cards where we ask the investors to like leave at least one or two slots open for us to try to fill them with some of the brands that didn't get as many meeting requests from the VCs.

36:14
Alex Michaelsen
Yeah. And even maybe everyone has like a wish list and they list their top three investors they want to meet with in order and then you try to get them at least one of those meetings if they're not pre selected. I know it's tough with people on the venture side maybe not being able to be there the whole day and they getting the select meetings they want. But I think it would be good for more brands if they were kind of forced into some meetings.

36:37
Daniel Sharff
That's so smart. I'm so glad that I asked that. That's such a good idea. Okay, Alex from Melitas, how about you? Anything you feel like we can do to level it up next year?

36:47
Alex Malamatinas
I think including an additional social element or event which includes both founders and investors. I thought, you know, as we discussed, the investor dinner was a great one. Whether it's sort of a cocktails or a dinner, sort of mixing founders and investors so that you can have a discussion outside of the 10 minute speed dating.

37:08
Daniel Sharff
I love it. Okay. I've already got ideas for how we do that. All right. This is good. I wear. You know, we're always so nervous about how much of your time we're asking for, but if you're giving us the okay, then we will add something on. It'll be amazing. Get ready for something amazing. Okay, cool. Well, hey, I really want to thank both of you for supporting us at this event outside of this event. Really, both of you guys have helped us out so much. Leisure, has hosted some of our favorite gatherings in LA at your epic backyard, our founder dinners, so much fun stuff. Alex, we really appreciate all of the knowledge sharing that you've done. On the panel, on the podcast. It really your support means so much and but just more than that, what you do for early stage brands.

37:54
Daniel Sharff
And you know, it's no surprise that so many of them are really eager to attend the event when they know that people like you are going to be there and your whole team, I mean, we had tons of your team there. We only missed poor Peyton, who we love, because Peyton had like a skiing accident or something the day before and was devastated to miss. She'll be there. Absolutely. All right, thank you both so much. I'm really excited. And everybody, you don't have to wait all the way until next year for founders and funders because I'm really excited to let you know that we will be doing a mobile version called the Roadshow that will hit a city near you, if you live in a major city, sometime throughout this year.

38:34
Daniel Sharff
And so our goal with that is this event, because of the nature of it is curated. It's really just can't put absolutely every brand into the room and have the event run the way that we have designed it. But we do want to have events that are more open just for any brand that is interested to come and attend and meet these incredible VCs. So the road show is going to let us do that. We're really excited to share more details about that soon. So stay tuned and we will see you in the spac. Thanks everybody.

39:02
Alex Malamatinas
Thank you.

39:05
Daniel Sharff
Well, my friends, we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast, the top globally ranked podcast in cpg. As you may know, we're not just a podcast. We're a community of brands and experts and you should join. You can sign [e-mail] you'll then get an invite to our online Slack community. You're going to hear about amazing events near you, all of our special opportunities to get you in front of buyers, investors, brands and more. It's a free community. So what are you waiting for? I will see you there or on our next episode. Bye bye.