Freedom and Glory - Tales of American Spirit

Hosts Liz and Bill  interview Dr. Lance Armstrong, a Cocoa Beach chiropractor for nearly 30 years and former Air Force B-52 pilot. He recounts being inspired to fly after seeing F-4s take off, describes B-52 operations, crew coordination, and a harsh landing that injured him, leading him to seek chiropractic care despite warnings. After congressional budget cuts ended his flying career, he quickly enrolled at Palmer College of Chiropractic and returned home to buy Cocoa Beach’s oldest chiropractic practice, later volunteering with law enforcement, first responders, and treating hundreds of homeless veterans through Stand Down events. Armstrong also advocates for military chiropractic care, discusses the Patriot Project, and shares his leadership in Rolling Thunder Florida Chapter One, focused on POW/MIA awareness, family history tied to a WWII missing relative, and the meaning of the Strategic Air Command flag.

00:00 Show Introduction
00:27 Meet Dr Armstrong
01:16 Chiropractic Practice Today
01:56 Inspired To Fly
04:03 B-52 Training Path
06:35 Low Level Missions
07:43 Crew Coordination
09:37 Hard Landing Injury
12:23 Discovering Chiropractic
15:55 Budget Cuts Phone Call
17:26 Chiropractic School Journey
19:21 Building Local Practice
20:16 Serving First Responders
21:13 Stand Down Veterans Care
23:59 Teaching Student Doctors
26:24 Military Chiropractic Advocacy
31:09 Fighter Pilot Neck Strain
33:35 Rolling Thunder Origins
36:19 Florida Chapter Mission
37:15 B-17 Recovery Story
39:00 Riding And Patches
40:18 Andersonville POW Museum
43:13 POW Survival Stories
46:26 POW MIA Flag Legacy
48:02 Healthcare And Hobbies
50:35 Flags In Schools
52:31 SAC Flag And Cold War
58:27 Road Trips And Farewell

Creators and Guests

Host
Bill LuMaye
Former talk show host at WPTF680 in Raleigh, N.C.
Host
Liz Morris
Chief Executive Officer at Carrot-Top Industries, Inc.

What is Freedom and Glory - Tales of American Spirit?

Welcome to Freedom and Glory: Tales of American Spirit—a podcast celebrating the heart of American craftsmanship, resilience, self-reliance, and the power of disruption. Through inspiring stories and authentic storytelling, we shine a spotlight on individuals and communities who embody these values, proving that small, determined efforts can spark meaningful change.

Join us as we share personal tales of triumph, innovation, and hope—moments that define the American spirit and shape our nation’s identity. Whether you’re seeking motivation to pursue your dreams or a reminder of the power of community, Freedom and Glory offers a powerful dose of inspiration rooted in resilience and determination.

Listen, be inspired, and take action.

[00:00:00] Speaker 2: Welcome to Freedom and Glory: Tales of American Spirit, where every flag tells a story, and so does every person who raises one. Join Liz Morris and Bill Lemay for conversations with people making a difference in their communities, reminding us that even the smallest actions can spark lasting change

[00:00:27] Liz and Bill: . My guest today is Dr. Lance Armstrong. For nearly 30 years, he's been a chiropractor in Cocoa Beach, Florida, treating everyone from astronauts to homeless veterans. But that's his second career. His first was in the Air Force flying B-52s and it ended one morning with a phone call.

So what he did, um, in the first five minutes after that call really changed the trajectory of the, the rest of your life. Um, so Dr. Armstrong's also the president of the Florida chapter of Rolling Thunder, the organization devoted to America's prisoners of war and missing in action. And, um, I know we'll hear about this for your family, doctor, that mission goes all the way back to World War II.

So welcome to the show

[00:01:14] Lance Armstrong: Thank you very much for this opportunity, Liz and Bill

[00:01:16] Liz and Bill: Tell us, uh, about your practice today. Who, who's walking through the door?

[00:01:22] Lance Armstrong: Let's see. Today we've had a couple of car accident victims that are repairing nicely. Um, I have an 84-year-old lady that has survived, uh, chemo and radiation not once, but twice, and that's very drying to the body, and we help with that. Um, and I see our commercial insurance patients, our Medicare patients, our patients that pay cash, um, all financial classifications, if you will, from all sorts of auto, work, and sports injury care, or the folks that just wanna stay well

[00:01:56] Liz and Bill: I know you grew up in, in Cocoa Beach and, and, you know, life kinda took you away and brought you back, um, through, through the Air Force. Um, how did you end up flying B-52s?

[00:02:12] Lance Armstrong: After junior high and high school here in Cocoa Beach, Florida, I was working at a dealership with delivering parts and working on cars, and I was a doorman at the nicest nightclub Brevard County, our county, had ever seen. We had The Drifters one time. And, uh, I decided one day when it was extremely cold to, uh, work on a car at the dealership, and when I did, I injured my hand just slightly, stepped out the back door just to go, "Doggone it," and right then two F-4s from the US Air Force Base near us, Patrick, were taking off, and they were actually descending down across the lights of the dealership and causing some car alarms to go off.

And when I saw the pilot had a mustache, I said, "Yeah, that's what I wanna do." Now, they like to do that there because that was Jim Rathmann who won the 1960 Indy 500, but in this area became famous for giving astronauts of Apollo age their Corvette.

[00:03:22] Liz and Bill: What a cool thing to do. So did you have a nickname? I mean, were you like Ice, uh- I mean, w- what was your nickname?

[00:03:31] Lance Armstrong: Um, there is a strategic point in a, uh, situation, I'm careful with what I say, but it is called Giant Lance. And so I, I was called Giant Lance, uh, in the squadron. But, you know, back then I could bench press 300 and so forth,

[00:03:53] Liz and Bill: I was like, "Wait, is it the s- we can't talk about the story or..."

[00:03:58] Lance Armstrong: today only 225. It's still that way to the beach, you see, but

[00:04:03] Liz and Bill: Well, can you tell us a little bit about the B-52s? I mean, uh,

[00:04:06] Lance Armstrong: Sure.

[00:04:07] Liz and Bill: a big aircraft

[00:04:08] Lance Armstrong: Um, I went through Brevard Community College and University of Central Florida, so I wanna give them a shout-out to the Air Force ROTC. You wear your uniform on Thursday and Friday, and, you know, the past two, final two years, and, uh, did really well with that. And, uh, became aware that I was not going to go to pilot training, and that was extremely frustrating moment in my life.

Uh, my senior physical where they dilate the eyes, and then they realized they needed to do the vision check, and the right eye 20/30, and next thing you know, I had lost the pilot allocation. I was so frustrated with that, but I stuck with it. When I did, I went to flight school within two weeks of graduating, where I was commissioned.

And, uh, that was in Sacramento, California. Two weeks after I got there, the movie Top Gun came out, so it was extremely difficult to stay focused on getting the wings on your flight suit. But it was, uh, a great time, great education. After you have your wings, you are put into your operational airplane, and that is where the B-52 was taught just two hours south at the Castle Air Force Base in the Valley of California.

And, uh, from there I went operational in it. Um, it is a beast. There is no question about it. The plane empty weighs more than many of the commercial airplanes of the smaller nature today. And then the 185,000 pounds of just metal and plane, and it is empty, if you will, with 60,000 pounds of fuel. Uh, normally we can put in 240 to 270,000 pounds of fuel, and up to 51 1,000-pound bombs are hanging in it on underneath the wings.

And so up over 500,000 pounds of everything rumbling down a two and a half mile runway hoping to get the air speed up enough to take off. And over 10-- Uh, over 72 degrees, 10,000 pounds of water was put in the airplane's tanks, and it dumps into the eight engines on takeoff and only lasts 90 seconds. But it upped the thrust from 10,000 to 17,000 pounds of fuel-- of thrust in each engine.

So it made a big difference to get us off the ground on hot days

[00:06:35] Liz and Bill: I don't know

[00:06:35] Lance Armstrong: And of course, it was meant to be a strategic high altitude cruise along and drop. Although we did not play by those rules. We were known for flying at 400 feet off the ground, a stream of four of us, 15 seconds in trail, climbing up through mountain saddles.

One of the pictures I sent you today shows a mountain range off the tip of the right wing, above the wing. And, uh, to do that at night also and have a multi-axis of attack about 15 seconds apart, uh, at the same altitude, uh, was practice st- that we did regularly and, uh, competed in competitions as well.

Recognizing your capability to avoid the threats and to, uh, place the bombs in the lips, as they say. Hit the target. That was always rusty 18-wheelers and old bread trucks and piles of metal and stuff that they would put out there for us in the Arizona desert or Salt Lake, so

[00:07:38] Liz and Bill: I would pay to do that. W- wouldn't you?

[00:07:41] Lance Armstrong: it was

[00:07:42] Liz and Bill: like so much fun

[00:07:43] Lance Armstrong: a privilege. And what was really incredible about the B-52, to be honest with you, is how well the crew worked with each other. Eventually, I did become an instructor and then an evaluator, and to get on planes, whether they knew I was coming or not, a no-notice check ride, and to hear how the crew functioned.

It is like a beautiful concert when it's all working together. The tail gunner was calling out airplanes that might be trying to come in and shoot us down. The electronic warfare officer is listening to different sounds that might represent a different missile or a radar looking for you, or whether it's locked on, and then the systems he could use to jam that signal.

The navigator's trying to keep you on course and on time. The radar navigator/bombardier, of course, is making sure that every weapon systems is ready to go. The co-pilot is transferring fuel and communications, and the pilot is trying to keep that plane above ground

[00:08:39] Liz and Bill: Wow, that's amazing. That really is truly amazing that you could orchestrate that many individuals perform that task on a regular basis. That's incredible

[00:08:48] Lance Armstrong: And in your final bomb run, if it's only about four to five minutes long, to have a navigator trying to change a little bit of a course, the bombardier working a system problem, the electronic warfare officer saying there's a missile coming in or trying to jam it, and the tail gunner calling out a plane, you can imagine how if it's all jumbled and stepped on at the same time, it's not good.

But when everybody has a little moment in there, you're getting all this information and input in a very short period of time. And your whole world, including air refueling, which was also the tankers at our base in Michigan, at Wurtsmith Air Force Base in the corner of Michigan, they were there to make sure that we got to that four or five minutes and then egressed, hopefully.

So we had a conventional and nuclear role

[00:09:37] Liz and Bill: Well, I mean, it's w- 30 some years ago, and, um, the ease at which you just told us all those amazing statistics, um, I can really feel your, your passion and, um... Well, talk to us about the night in Michigan, um, at the end of a long training flight when, when something went wrong

[00:10:03] Lance Armstrong: The beast of a B-52 is so big. I'm sure you have flown in commercial airplanes and felt winds affecting your landing to some degree. Maybe the wings wiggled a little bit when you were coming in for a landing. And you can hear, you know, people get a little nervous. The B-52 had the capability to turn the landing gear.

So if you can imagine up to 30 degrees, I'm landing a plane looking out a little bit of a side window and the landing gear aimed that way. And when we were dealing with an extremely long mission and everyone was faced with about the limit of possible landing conditions, 30 plus knot winds of blowing sand, sleet and snow, COHO 3-2 cleared to land.

And sure enough, the landing gear turned as it should be. They set that. But when they landed, the plane was lined up with the runway or the other direction a little bit. And it just took those landing gear and just slammed that plane into the ground. And you've got a B-52 strap to you. So your head snapped hard to the right with an oxygen mask.

The parachute comes up the ejection seat through your, you know, rear end and just a huge axial compression injury. Of the six that were on that crew that night, I do believe that two of them went off to surgical procedures within a few years after that or whatnot. But I was given a big bucket of pills and I started taking those pills.

As soon as you take one pill, you are DNIF, duty not incur flying. You are taken out of your toy box with all your toys and you are put in a corner and you are asked to work with paperwork and you are asked. And it's just, it is so difficult. I can hardly explain it to you to know that my world is in this and now I can't do that.

I've got to go do this. And something that is, you know, just I'm not putting down any of the work that's being done to make sure the plane is getting to where it needs to be and the crew is healthy. But that second bucket of pills I just couldn't take. And so I asked the flight surgeon, what about a chiropractic physician?

And he told me three things. Number one, it's illegal. Number two, they can kill you. And number three, it could end your career. If my desk represents the education of a medical doctor and he leaned forward and drew out the size of a postage stamp, he said, that's the education of a chiropractor.

And so I had a difficult decision to make, and I went ahead and slipped off base and I found a chiropractic physician in the corner of Michigan that put me back together within about two to three weeks. His office manager, a little seven-year-old granddaughter with the white coat dragging across the floor, sort of melted you at the front door when she'd look up and say, "Captain Armstrong, how do you feel today?" And I am telling you, it was a real moment in my life to see that, yes, I have my range of motion back. I have-- my pain is gone. The numbness in my arm and my leg is gone. I can sleep better. I can function. I am doing great. I was back on flying status. And, uh, so about eight months after that is when another flight occurred, and I worked all night, and then the next morning I got the phone call

[00:13:43] Liz and Bill: Well, r- just to backtrack to your bucket of pills, I mean, he told you not to go and then you snuck and did it. How did you... Were you just like, "Oh, I feel better"?

[00:13:54] Lance Armstrong: Oh, I turned in the second bucket of pills. Yes, these worked

[00:14:02] Liz and Bill: Could have been a

[00:14:02] Lance Armstrong: It's a...

[00:14:03] Liz and Bill: I think

[00:14:05] Lance Armstrong: I, it was a tough decision. It really was. I didn't wanna do anything in, you know, incorrect, but, you know, their, their thoughts and procedures were not what I was aware had, had been able to help other people in the past, and I, I wanted to do it. And sure enough, I'm glad I did. It's changed my life, so

[00:14:25] Liz and Bill: Well, I was gonna ask, you know, how did you transition from P-52s to what you're doing now? I think maybe you, you, uh, probably touched on that. chiropractor obviously made a, a big impression on you, but you mentioned, you know, at the time they really weren't considered real doctors

[00:14:43] Lance Armstrong: Correct. And that's a, that's a ... Boy, was I gonna find out that wasn't true. But, uh, I was in the military and I really wanted to fly, and I was following in my cousin's footsteps, my grandfather's footsteps, my father's footsteps, his brother's footsteps. Um, Granddad, that I'm named after, was one of the first 50 aviators this country ever had in the ar- in the military.

I have his, uh, flight manual, which is a little composition notebook they drew out with the spars, and don't step here, and watch out for flying wood chips and, you know, when they first came on with airplanes in the military back in 1911. And Dad served in World War II. His brother, Uncle Milton, was a World War II aviator.

I guess most people know my cousin, Neil, who stuck, you know, the flag on the moon. And so, yeah, I was interested in making it a career.

[00:15:45] Liz and Bill: your cousin?

[00:15:46] Lance Armstrong: He was my

[00:15:47] Liz and Bill: Why didn't you lead with that? That's awesome.

[00:15:51] Lance Armstrong: You know, I gotta have a secret or two, right? You know, but,

[00:15:54] Liz and Bill: is awesome.

[00:15:55] Lance Armstrong: I was devoted to flying for the military. I was devoted to make this officer position and a career. And at the eight-year point, a phone call from the wing commander let me know that I had 120 days to figure out a new career due to congressional budget cuts, and it was a real stun.

And so, you know, ghostly it came back in my mind that it could lose your career. And so I was wondering if maybe that had information had transferred somehow, but I don't think it did. I just know that there were some great guys I was working with who I didn't know this until the 30th reunion that happened a little while ago, two years or so, where they came up to me and said, "Armstrong, did you make general?"

I said, "What? You know, we all, we all got cut." He said, "No, we sued and won. I returned as a... I just retired as a colonel." He retired as a colonel. "We thought you would make general." And I felt like pulling this knife out of my back 'cause I never heard about the lawsuit However, I did decide within five minutes of that phone call to go ahead and make contact with Palmer College of Chiropractic in Davenport, Iowa, the only school I knew of that was teaching it.

And what I didn't realize that I was about to find out is over the next four years, I'd receive a six-year education that in most cases might have been in more in-depth than the medical doctors in that field today. Neurology, central neurology, peripheral neurology, structure. Don't get me wrong, I am not discrediting any medical fie- field or profession.

But cardiac surgeons, who I have so much respect for anyone working inside the body like that, but they know all about the heart and vascular. They have no idea where the anconeus muscle is, okay? And to know the full, complete understanding of the biomechanics and the biochemistry and the compositions of all of it and the evolutions of it, you know, even starting off with, you know, how the, the, the egg is formed, okay?

And going all the way to geriatric care. Um, it was an incredible in-depth education. And out of... You know, they hadn't seen the intensity of a B-52 guy go through their halls in a while, so I did leave with this plaque that said I was the Clinic Excellence recipient out of the class of 200. But bottom line is, though, I just was so shocked and impressed with the education I received, and was just hoping to make it when I came home to my hometown of Cocoa Beach.

[00:18:58] Liz and Bill: Do you remember the first time you cracked somebody? You know?

[00:19:01] Lance Armstrong: We call it, we call it adjusting 'cause you work with a bone. You crack a bone, you got a bigger

[00:19:06] Liz and Bill: just did someone

[00:19:07] Lance Armstrong: But, uh, yes, sir. I'm looking up at my first dollar in a frame that says, "My first, not my focus." Um, and I can tell you that was, uh, a moment. I purchased the oldest practice in Cocoa Beach, period. Dental, medical, the oldest was the chiropractor.

And a Dr. Bob Pereira, who used to hunt turkey and rabbits with his bow and arrow, now where Ron Jon's is located on A1A here in Cocoa Beach, is when he got started. And so he was ready to retire, and I received my license, and the day I got it, I bought the practice and began practicing. And, uh, I can remember, of course, my first new patient was a great Cocoa Beach police officer, Sergeant Steve Pietro, who had pulled me over in high school.

And he wanted to be my patient, and I was so gratified by able to help him, and that sort of kicked off my connection with law enforcement. And so I'm honored to say for about 28 years now, I have been a volunteer with the sheriff's department as their chiropractic physician. I've packed up and gone mobile during natural disasters for the state and helped firefighters from all levels, from city, county, state, and of course the firefighters that jump into fires and things like that.

And so to help the first responders in most cases of, you know, situations and track the Brevard County Sheriff's SWAT team through international competition for that duration of time and to ride with folks like that and see the stress that they go through, uh, has really been a, a, an enrichment to my life.

[00:21:03] Liz and Bill: Wow. helping those people... I mean, did you- how did you get into also helping homeless veterans?

[00:21:10] Lance Armstrong: Okay

[00:21:10] Liz and Bill: about?

[00:21:13] Lance Armstrong: That was in my second year, and I had heard about Stand Down through a patient. Stand Down is a military term, I think established in Vietnam. I hope I'm right on that. I believe that's like where they might have been in the field fighting for three days and then stand down. We're pulled out and given some rest, uh, taken maybe to Seoul, Korea, where they knew they could relax, as the movies have shown you, you know.

Um, Stand Down now today means that we will help our homeless veterans in our area. They can come and know they can get everything from camping supplies to new clothing. They can get, uh, communications with family and the VA, uh, legal issues taken care of, and health. Um, grooming. They had, uh, a barber. They had a dentist, but they had no chiropractor.

And when I walked in with my mobile equipment, they were like shocked at the Cocoa Armory. I think that was in 1999. And they didn't know what to do with me. They, you know, looked at each other and the staff that was organizing it with their orange vests and everything, and "We'll put him over here." And so they put me between the barber and the dentist.

And the first patient I had-- And of course, you're nervous because in my procedures here, I like to do a full exam and X-ray, understand the diagnosis, instruct that to the patient, talk to them about their chiropractic care, and then get busy. And I'll treat normally patients for a couple of weeks, and they just feel fantastic.

And they're also sick of my jokes, so the side hurt will out. But the bottom line is that, uh, when I first met this gentleman, he was about 60, 60 years of age and about 270 pounds and five foot ten. So severely overweight, diabetic, and he just starts rolling with his diagnosis. He understands them. He's been to the VA.

He's had an MRI of his low back. He's had an X-ray of his neck. He knows that these are degenerative changes. He knows that the nerves are pinching from the discs and getting him the numbness down the leg. And so it takes, uh, on a body that size, a pretty big thrust, a big adjustment. And sometimes people can feel that just a little bit and react with a, "Ah!"

And when that happened, I think the barber shaved the side of the head, and the dentist pulled the wrong tooth. I mean, hey. But the do- this guy felt great, and he got off the table and went and told other people. And next thing you know, I think I've treated probably about, I don't know, seven, eight hundred homeless veterans over those years.

Um, I've taken probably in the neighborhood of 600 student doctors from Palmer College of Chiropractic in Port Orange with me as an instructor And I have really enjoyed helping both of them come together. Those students, you know, the chiropractic colleges, I sort of acclimate to, uh, a fish camp where you throw in one shrimp and they all boom like this.

Well, some new patient comes through the door at the clinic and of course, you know, it's, "He's mine." "No, she's mine." "He's mine." Okay? And so to get your numbers required for graduation may be difficult if you're not really there at 8:00 in the morning and stay until 7:00 PM at night in some cases. And so the dean of clinics at the time, another great veteran doctor, Shane Carter, would pick the doctors to come see me and the students with them.

And then the next thing you know, after about 15 minutes to see them look up and realize with eyes this big, they have 12 veterans standing there waiting to be cared for. And their procedures in the school, you must understand, are there to try and help make sure they understand everything on the exams that they'll be facing to get their license on the world they need to live in.

But in this scenario where these folks are already saying, "I have degenerative changes in my neck that's not bad, and this is causing this. I'm a little stiff and sore from sleeping on the ground." Get on the table. Let's do our orthopedic test, range of motion, reflexes, sensory motor skills, a full exam, and get you adjusted.

And do all of that in a thorough but quick manner, unlike the clinic where everything is evaluated one at a time. I wanna see how you do this orthopedic test, and so let's do that. Now we take notes. And so an exam can be stretched to an hour and a half in some cases when it's your first. But in this environment, they went home sweaty, dirty, worn out-

And we all felt great

[00:26:12] Liz and Bill: Mm-hmm I bet you do That, yeah, I was gonna say that sounds like a real win-win

[00:26:16] Lance Armstrong: And then that's where I got more into what else can I do?

[00:26:22] Liz and Bill: Yeah

[00:26:24] Lance Armstrong: And so Patrick Air Force Base at the time, now Space Force Base, is adjoining the south end of my city. And so I went in and talked to the commander of the hospital, and sure enough, for five and a half years, I had a clinic inside the hospital at Patrick Air Force Base, and I proved that chiropractic physicians are the number one needed medical science for all our active duty worldwide, period And then with working with rehab and radiology between them, it took about two years of those five and I had all nine medical doctors in the hospital referring me patients.

And that's when I came across a Dr. Tim Novelli at a Florida Chiropractic Association national convention. He lives in Canton, Ohio, and he is the founder of Patriot Project, patriot-project.org, and that will show you that we have 13 Medal of Honor recipients on our board of directors, and I am the director for the Southeast United States.

And we had the opportunity at the time to initiate something that had not yet occurred that was already signed into law. And so let me hit reverse. And in my third week in '98, the American Chiropractic Association called me and said, "Is it true you're an Air Force officer who became chiropractor?" "Yes."

"Can you come to Washington next week and meet with Congress and Senate?" And I said, "Guys, I'm in my third week." They said, "We'll fly you up here. We'll take care of that. Just bring your uniform." And so that's where I met with US Senate and Congress. And the next year, uh, the National Defense Authorization Act of 2000 implemented military chiropractic care, and about a year or two later, the VA followed it.

The problem while I was there at Patrick, all set up to receive graduates, spend one month in their training on the medical documentation program, quality assure what they do with this table in their hands, and send them overseas to a flat top forward field or forward location for eight months to a year where they are simply kept, not paid, just kept.

You're kept on a ship. You're kept at a base. You have a place to live. You have food to eat. There's no limit to, you know, what you have there to keep you. But you come home with a scratched government-based student loan, probably in the neighborhood of 100,000, 150,000. And when you care that-- compare that to some of the guys in Iraq that were changing tires for $400,000 a year, you see the value of that.

And so this led to two conference calls while I was in the hospital at Patrick with the Defense Health Agency that had just formed. And the second one, two minutes into it, I heard someone in the back of the... yelling a word down And I said, "What's wrong?" And they said, "Well, we know how to fly planes and move ships and troops, but we don't know how to adjust...

We don't know what about chiropractic." So for 10 years we did nothing with the funding, and Congress just pulled it. And so it was frustrating to hear that I had missed an opportunity, although I had been in the hospital saying this for three years, that this is a perfect opportunity to set up the facility to send chiropractic physicians, well-trained, overseas to meet the second of the third spokes of that wheel of the National Defense Authorization of 2000.

Putting chiropractors in the US area had occurred, woefully understaffed. Overseas and commissioning were the other two aspects of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2000. And so to send them overseas and maybe sort of negotiate in politics to do away with the commissioning, I was happy with that.

And this g- I don't know, a colonel in the Defense Health Agency, "God, this is a win-win-win." He also wanted to know, "Are you a veteran?" I said, "How'd you know?" He says, "Your plan reads like an ops order. You know where equipment will leave out of main port. You know, so you, you're, you're, you've already done your planning.

We don't have to." And, uh, so yes, that was, that was sort of a, a moment in my life. We haven't given up I'm still interested in working through the Department of War now, with the interest of the healthcare getting to those active duty military. A real quick scenario of this was a kid came in here in 2015 for a sports physical for his senior year in high school, Cocoa Beach tennis.

Perfect vision, 2015, tall, healthy. And I said, "Have you ever thought about flying planes?" He was interested in what I had to say. I said, "How about, are you interested in big stuff with people, or you wanna fly something small and fast?" And of course, that was his interest. He returned about three weeks ago.

He's been flying F-16s for the Air Force for three years. He's been in Japan, and now he's going to Italy. Tough duty, trust me. But here was the story. I think he's maybe 28, and this is the way he has to turn his head to look, and everyone in the squadron's like that. The helmets are approximately three pounds, the oxygen mask another two or three pounds.

The skull weighs 13 pounds, so a total of maybe 16, 17 pounds. And when you pull nine Gs of force, that goes up into the 150 pounds coming down on your neck, in a flight that lasts over an hour long, maybe two or three in a day, twice to three times a week, for three, four years. And already, degenerative disc and joint changes are starting in the neck of a fighter pilot.

The B-52s were well known to slam us all around as well. The thermals at low level, there's, there's video I have of crew members that are just hanging on inside their own seats. And so, yes, we, we are very aware that not just planes, tanks. The Coast Guard, in my opinion, won the award for we beat the daylights out of ourselves.

Fast boats, high seas, metal seats, and I saw some incredible injuries. So-

[00:33:11] Liz and Bill: It really, I mean, takes a toll on your body

[00:33:14] Speaker: We send a newsletter. Not often, but when we do, it's worth opening. Stories like the ones you hear on this show. Ideas for how to mark the moments that matter. First look at what's new. If that sounds like something you'd want in your inbox, sign up at freedomandglory.com.

[00:33:35] Lance Armstrong: I know you were interested in Rolling Thunder too. I don't wanna jump around too much on you,

[00:33:40] Liz and Bill: good transition. Um, uh, for people, you know, what is Rolling Thunder?

[00:33:45] Lance Armstrong: It is a national prisoner of war mili- missing in action advocacy group, so anyone can join, 40 bucks a year, says, "I wanna know what's happened to our 80,000 missing." I found out about this after cooking a whole bunch of hamburgers and hot dogs at a family reunion, and I saw my dad's generation going inside and passing around some photo albums.

One of those had a back cover and had a letter that I have here, dated 1944, letting me know, letting them know at the time, they did not what hap- know what happened to their brother, Lieutenant Wallace P. Curry, shot down 22 January 1944, we assume, over the south part of Italy, crawling with Germans. The letter simply states, "We don't know what happened.

We know he took off. The search for him and his plane is on." But no one was able to follow up with the family because the family moved about a year later. And so when I found this photo album in 2014, this letter, I initiated communication with the defense, uh, agency that is responsible for the repatriation of the people that are found, and they let me know immediately, "It's one of our open cases."

And so I have been very interested to keep his name alive, and I wanna say that Rolling Thunder was created by an Army sergeant, Artie Mueller, who was frustrated in Vietnam to see the people he served with that were killed in action were left behind. And so he started a r- a rally, if you will, on Memorial Day weekend in Washington, DC, and he rode his motorcycle, along with a few of his friends, through the streets of Washington in a slow protest ride of the slow recovery of our missing.

32 years later in 2019, the FBI aerial estimate was 1.7 million bikes showed up, and we were told, "Don't you do this again. Make it state run." And so we've run it here in the state of Florida, and the 84 chapters we have through the nation have run theirs in their states on Memorial Day weekend. And so, yes, I'm very interested in supporting that organization.

I happen to have become the Florida Chapter One president. I've been in that seat for about six years, and we have such a great chapter. I'll be turning that over, letting someone else do it. But, uh, we help veterans in need. We escort veteran funerals. We give scholarships to Junior ROTC. Um, and we promote the fact that we have missing.

And because of those efforts, the Department of Defense has completely restructured. They had in each branch, the Navy, the Air Force, they had their own office doing this recovery work. Now they've all come together under one location at Hickam in Hawaii, where many of your remains coming from Southeast United, uh, Asia are brought there, properly identified, prepared for the burial, and sent home with a family notification.

And fortunately, other entities have followed. The University of Wisconsin gave an incredible briefing at our national conference, which is held in Washington this year, Halloween weekend. I can give you information on that if you're interested in coming. But, uh, a briefing from one of their, uh, university professionals on this, they went after a crew member of a B-17 that was from Wisconsin, and they took students with them to where they think they were shot down in, uh, I believe that was, uh, possibly northern Germany area.

And what they found was the crash site of not one, but three B-17s, and each one had a crew of about 10. And next thing you know, they have the villagers coming out with boxes of equipment from the planes that they had saved. And one of the most incredible stories was this guy kept coming out every day and giving the, the students and the, and the people there chocolate.

And they sort of got tired of the chocolate. And they said, "Well, what is... What's the story with the chocolate?" And he let them know that was what the US service members in World War II had brought to the area to give to children and to give to families to say, "Hey, we are here. We are not an enemy. We're here to help you."

And he had stocked up the chocolate from '44, and they were enjoying it, so. But Rolling Thunder's made a big difference in the DOD. We're hoping to show also that, uh, the progress of understanding this idea has come to fruition because in Afghanistan, no one was left behind.

[00:39:00] Liz and Bill: Do you ride? That's amazing.

[00:39:02] Lance Armstrong: Oh, do I? Oh, yes, I do.

[00:39:03] Liz and Bill: I, I- No ... I know it's a

[00:39:05] Lance Armstrong: Oh, yes, I

[00:39:06] Liz and Bill: you do

[00:39:07] Lance Armstrong: You don't have to be a member, a veteran. You don't have to ride. Many are and do. Um, our escorts for funerals include the vehicles with flags on them and so forth. But, uh, yes, I happen to have a Harley-Davidson CVO that's beautiful and blue. And, uh, I had-

[00:39:26] Liz and Bill: jacket behind you?

[00:39:28] Lance Armstrong: Yes, I do, and that's, uh, military insignias and also, you know, the missing, uh, here for Lieutenant Curry, um, some of the badges, my captain's bars, the two wings I have received in my life, and then the back of it shows events that we have occurred and gone through

And that's what it looks like

[00:39:52] Liz and Bill: Nice. Wow

[00:39:54] Lance Armstrong: And many of these patches you'll see have ribbons below them showing the years that you've done it before and after kind of a thing. And, uh, this one over here is talking about Andersonville, and I'm hoping that that might become our next annual event since we no longer go to Washington.

Andersonville

[00:40:16] Liz and Bill: that's, that's coming up, right?

[00:40:18] Lance Armstrong: Yes, the third Friday in September is

the National POW/MIA Day. We are the National POW/MIA advocacy group. Andersonville is where the Union troops were put in a stockade, and it is today the National POW Museum. It's an incredible location, and I've been there about a dozen years now. And one of those first years, I think, was the 150th anniversary of it.

And this only lasted under two years. 54,000 plus, I think, were put in this stockade. 13,000 plus died there. As many as 6, 700 in a day, as I understand. Some of the incredible stories just, your, your skin is, your hairs are standing up when you hear them being told. But, uh, to see how it looks today, and at that 150th, they laid out a luminary for every one of those 13,000 souls.

I'm a very good motorcycle rider. I have no problem with controlling my bike. But when we rolled through there that night, it felt like people were tugging on my motorcycle. And I mean, it was a slow roll. I was with other people, but you could feel, like, things bumping. Stories of local civic organization groups that, like Rotary, that wanted to go camp out there one night, all got in their truck and took off, leaving their campsite, and come back the next day for all your equipment and get out of there.

It is a national cemetery that remains active today, but the, the stones are there, the headstones are there for the Civil War. And, uh, that was because of one Union troop who took more records in the dead house than the Confederates did. They only gave them a number of the dead that they were in the camp.

So 22, 24 was next to 22, 25. But this individual went back at night through the camp saying, "Did you know who this guy was with the blue jack-" "Yes, yes, that was Bill from... He was in Pennsylvania, too." You know, and that sort of thing. So he kept better records, and when the war ended and the camp opened up, he was on a train headed home, dropped that information off at the war department in DC, and they took him right back down there for over two years, and he labeled every grave with as much information as he could, and that's what replaced the planks of wood with the stones today.

And that's just one story. So to rally there, we're welcomed, by the way, by Warner Robins Base. We hear incredible stories. That museum that they have, an air museum, is incredible. And, uh, it's a rally point for us in another month, and I'm really looking forward to it.

[00:43:13] Liz and Bill: What are, um, you know, any other, um, powerful POW stories that, that you've heard there that

[00:43:22] Lance Armstrong: Oh my God. Huh. Um, Korea. Some of those guys in Korea that knew they were gonna lose their fingers and toes, and then they got overrun by Chinese and, and then they were in a prison camp in, in North Korea. They escaped from that, came over a hill, and there was more Chinese that were trying to kill them. Um, one of the more incredible stories I heard was a crew member on the Pueblo, a naval ship that was captured by the North Koreans during the Vietnam War, and that is where the Hawaiian good luck sign became well known.

I don't know if you know what that is, but it is the extensor digitorum longus of the third digit of the hand will remain up, and the others will fold, and they snuck that into their pictures

[00:44:20] Liz and Bill: describe it

[00:44:22] Lance Armstrong: And they were showing these pictures with smiles on their faces as the camp gave them like a football, looked like they were having a great time.

Unfortunately, it was when those pictures got loose to the press, and then a magazine, and that magazine describing what that really meant, got back to the camp, and that's when they began torture. And to hear these stories of how they were captured on the ship, and they were trying to destroy their documents, they had no way to destroy documents.

They were all burning pieces of paper in a garbage can inside a ship. And, uh, you know, to go through a year and a half, I think was what they were there, correct me if I'm wrong, but, uh, to hear these guys talk about that is incredible. One of the most impressive I ever met, though, um, was from our own chapter, and he was in a B-17 on his twenty-sixth mission over Germany, which was r-rare you got to that height.

And something hit and exploded as he was trying to help the gunner in the tail, and he does not know what happened, but he woke up in a farmhouse three days later and had found out that the family had found him in their field and pulled him in and had helped him with rest, recovery, but he didn't remember them helping him, you know, get cleaned up and everything.

So three days later, they are turning him over to the Germans, and he became a prisoner of war in their camp. They knew if they didn't and they found him, the family would be executed immediately. So that was a problem they faced. He never knew how he survived until about eight months before he passed away when they got a phone call from a young lady letting him know that the crew member, his granddaughter, was calling to say, "That crew member went out of the plane with you and pulled your cord, and he has unfortunately just passed away, and he wanted me to let you know.

He wanted to search and find your name." So stories like that are just incredible

[00:46:26] Liz and Bill: Well, I wanted to ask you about, um, 'cause we've talked about on the podcast the, the POW flag and, um, that was created by Mary Hoff, and I understand you've met her son and daughter. Can

[00:46:38] Lance Armstrong: Correct. They were there at Andersonville one year. And, um, of course, I had them sign my do-rag and other things. But, uh, you know, it was neat to meet them, to know the story behind their father, who was the reason of the flag. I believe he was a, a Vietnam, uh, fighter pilot that was shot down and kept in captivity.

Um, unfortunately, I don't think he survived it. But, uh, to hear them talk about ... What I asked was, "Do you realize your family could be millionaires?" And their statement of their mother did not want to trademark, did not want to ... She, she did not want to profit off of this. She wanted the world to have it complimentary so that it would spread, so that it would be well-known, so that the, the mission of recovery of our missing and our POWs would not be forgotten.

And so, uh, when you realize that level of here you go, um, it stuns you a little bit to hear them say that, so. However, there is no greater flag in my opinion than this one right here

[00:47:53] Liz and Bill: So, so true. Mm-hmm. So true. Man, you're a passionate guy. I picked up on that, you know?

[00:47:59] Lance Armstrong: Just a little. Yeah, just a little.

[00:48:00] Liz and Bill: Just a little. Uh,

[00:48:02] Lance Armstrong: Pretty intense with what I do today too. I really, I, uh, really think that, uh, our healthcare system needs to be reevaluated. Our school lunches need to be changed. Um, a big idea on, on aging and aging processes, you know, before we start stuffing in pills, maybe we can figure out the cause of the problem.

So

[00:48:24] Liz and Bill: So can I ask, what do you do for fun? Is there any time? Is it, I mean, I can't imagine

[00:48:32] Lance Armstrong: Well, I, uh, have I don't know if you can see that or not

[00:48:42] Liz and Bill: Aw. Yes

[00:48:43] Lance Armstrong: I have one of the most incredible human beings on the face of this earth. Her name is Dina Armstrong, and, um, we met through this career, uh, at the base while I was there in the hospital, and that's all I should probably say about that. But, uh, she keeps me busy.

She's a yoga instructor, T five hundred level, and, uh, so the combination of what we do works well. Um, I also happen to have a car like the first one I had here in Cocoa Beach, a nineteen sixty-six Dodge Charger, and, uh, I have just gotten into another one that's much more rare. It's a nineteen seventy Dodge Charger RT U-code four-speed.

They only made about fourteen hundred of them in nineteen seventy and half were in the junkyard because of the suspension in five years. So we've put that on a rotisserie and ripped all that stuff out. We painted the bottom. The body's painted, and the car's, I think, in three different cities and places right now, and it's all coming together hopefully when this weather finally quits and then get down into the, you know, lower eighties would be nice versus one hundreds.

But yes, I do enjoy that. Um, I enjoy supporting Rolling Thunder and, uh, you know, that and, and, uh, working around the house, keeping that. So keeping my eye on legislation, keeping on folks that, you know, I would like to support that wanna help the healthcare of this nation. I think we've got an issue here so I'd like to see that change, but I don't know if that will. That's, you know, part of where we're at, so I'm just here to make sure the folks that walk through my door are well taken care of ethically and efficiently.

[00:50:27] Liz and Bill: Well, thank you for your- Yeah ... your service.

[00:50:30] Lance Armstrong: Thank

[00:50:31] Liz and Bill: those that you've, you know, continued to help. Um-

[00:50:35] Lance Armstrong: I want to mention, though, that we have come to know each other through an incredible Instagram, Facebook post, I'm not sure which one it was, of your company. And I wanna compliment you on that. Your company did a, uh, advertisement on the flags that you make, and one of them, of course, was the POW/MIA flag, and I commented on that, and I think that's what's initiated this communication to this level.

The flags that you appear to make are extreme quality, double-sided. And I have passed on that quote for 100 POW/MIA flags to replace those that we placed, leading the nation, we believe, with Rolling Thunder Florida Chapter One, posting those flags under the American flag, above the state flag, as signed into law, at all 84 Brevard County public schools.

And I sent that quote on to our chairman of the Brevard Public Schools, and I'm hoping they make that purchase, or they give us the check to purchase it from you. And I intend to do so as soon as I hear from them, "Here's the green light and the check." So you all are supplying a beautiful product. Not just that flag, but others.

And I just wanna turn this moment around and say thank you, thank you, thank you for what you're doing. To find those made in America is so important to us.

[00:52:02] Liz and Bill: Yeah. Well,

[00:52:03] Lance Armstrong: So thank you for that

[00:52:03] Liz and Bill: the opportunity to hopefully earn that business. But,

[00:52:07] Lance Armstrong: And you bet I'm passing that on at national, our convention on Halloween in Washington, DC about this group and, and, uh, Flags of Glory, so

[00:52:17] Liz and Bill: Well, when you, you have some more free time, you can come be on our sales team.

[00:52:22] Lance Armstrong: You got it.

[00:52:23] Liz and Bill: we can also do the Halloween special- ... with the, uh,

[00:52:26] Lance Armstrong: Yes

[00:52:27] Liz and Bill: stories. That would be great. Well, but, uh, I know, I know. The, before we close, I wanted to, um, kinda go into, we have a segment called Flags of Change, where we follow one flag back, and I know Dr.

Armstrong had, um, a fun idea for us to talk about today. Um, so Doc, you flew for the Strategic Air Command, and I think this is a really fun flag.

[00:53:00] Liz and Bill: you were on alert the day it ended. Can you, can you tell us about this, the SAC flag?

[00:53:06] Lance Armstrong: Yes, um, SAC. Your military branches have their own commands, and in the Air Force, in the commands of bombers versus tankers or, uh, fighters, you had the tactical air command was the fighters, and the strategic air command was your bombers and tankers. The tankers, of course, can air refuel them in in-air passing.

Uh, the tankers mission in life is to pass gas. Okay. But we were very, um... There was no question. When you were a young Air Force lieutenant looking at all those commands and hoping to for, you know... When you saw SAC, you knew those were the guys standing at attention at the gate. You knew that those planes were parked up aligned perfectly.

You would see them taxiing in and balancing their wings to make sure that it expressed pride. The strategic air command at one point, General LeMay in 1962 proved he was the most powerful man in the world, in my opinion. There were five B52 bases here in the state of Florida, and he launched every one of them he could, and those Russian ships turned around with those cruise missiles headed for Cuba So the

[00:54:34] Liz and Bill: I could say I was related

[00:54:36] Lance Armstrong: Yes, so the Strategic Air Command, peace was our profession, was the motto.

And of course, if that didn't work, then we had deterrence through strength. And this flag had a fisted glove of armor and lightning and olive branches, the signal of what we could do and what we hoped for. And so yes, that led into one of the jobs I had was sitting alert. And your alert Christmas tree, as we call it, can still be identified when you fly over some of those former bases.

At the very end of a runway, you will see a Christmas tree of parking spots where the bombers and the tankers were parked, loaded, ready to go to nuclear war. And that deterrent at about a dozen bases throughout the United States, that's now down to only three, I think, um, it, it was a, it was a powerful statement that ended the Cold War that I served during.

And then after the Cold War ended, the Strategic Air Command and the Tactical Air Command melded. So your pilots of all natures came under what's known as either Air Combat Command or Air Mobility or Airlift Command kind of a thing. I don't exactly know what that one is termed, but that's where you have all your cargo aircraft that make sure that everybody gets to where they need to be.

And, uh, so SAC is gone. Yes, I was on alert. Yes, they sent that over, a, you know, strategic message. And, uh, so we were, we were there to assist with the, you know, nuclear weapons coming off of the planes. And, uh, during the 30th reunion, it was sort of ghostly to go back through, you know, where you had turnstiles, and you would only let one to two air crew members in, fully badged, and you're still inspected with guards everywhere.

And the planes were, you know, wrapped in red lines and huge fences with barbed wire. And you had a building you lived in for a week. And if that horn went off, you were in that plane within a minute, hopefully, with flight suit and boots ready to go to nuclear war. And so that was, that was SAC. That was, you know, we were ready, and we, we shined.

And, uh, today I am sure they're carrying on the, uh, the esprit de corps.

[00:57:17] Liz and Bill: Really a badass flag It, it is. It really is. I, excuse me, I recognize it too, and it, uh, I always associate it with badass. I do. I do.

[00:57:29] Lance Armstrong: I,

[00:57:29] Liz and Bill: kind of a badass too. I gotta be- and I mean that in the nicest way.

[00:57:33] Lance Armstrong: Thank you. I sent you a picture today of the c- clinic in the hospital where I hung that SAC flag, and so many of the folks that would come in to see me for care did not know what it was. And some of the older, you know, colonels and so forth, "Oh, SAC." You know, and, "Yes, sir, that's what I was in." And they, I feel, had a level of confidence that increased without me even touching them when they saw that flag

[00:58:02] Liz and Bill: Oh, Matt, you've been awesome. You really have. Mm-hmm. Just a phenomenal individual, and your passion just comes through. And, um, uh, I feel guilty that I don't have a level of passion you have, and it's for all the things I, I adore and admire and, uh, you know. Uh, so I, I thank you for all that

[00:58:21] Lance Armstrong: thank you, Bill. I just appreciate the opportunity. Uh, you know, y- without you, the message doesn't get spread. And, uh, if I had one more moment, I would mention that the Patriot Project has its annual military ball and are welcomed by the NFL Hall of Fame there in Canton where Dr. Novelli is located on that, uh, first weekend in November annually.

And so that's where our Medal of Honor recipients come and our, our other doctors, and we have a, a great time there too. So if you're counting that, you notice I have to go to Washington on Halloween weekend and Canton, Ohio on the next weekend, and so those two weekends are sort of right there. But, uh, that's gonna be a great time also, and that's where a whole lot of folks that have been badly injured, real badasses that we've helped in chiropractic and the healthcare are coming together.

And so I hope I promoted to you to, uh, maybe two road trips

[00:59:22] Liz and Bill: It does sound like fun Well, the doctor invited me to, um, on his motorcycle for the,

[00:59:31] Lance Armstrong: Yes. Yes. Now, of course,

[00:59:33] Liz and Bill: POW

[00:59:34] Lance Armstrong: we have to get

[00:59:35] Liz and Bill: Oh, well, see, I have a cycle I could ride too,

[00:59:37] Lance Armstrong: we, we have to get clearance from my wife on that, but yes, no question. And, uh, I'll give you a real quick story

[00:59:44] Liz and Bill: each of you to

ride.

[00:59:46] Lance Armstrong: so funny is that, uh, when Dina and I first met, and she's a military Air Force veteran as well, she heard about me going to Washington.

She had a trip pre-planned with friends to go to Hawaii. And so the pictures and the phones, and that initiated it. So the next year, I had a Heritage Softail Classic. Now, the back seat on it's about that big, and so was her butt. But the idea of us riding from Cocoa Beach, Florida, to Washington, D.C. on that, no.

And so I had us packed up, and we rode to Sanford, about an hour away, and got on the auto train and put the motorcycle on the train. We had our own room, our showers, a bar cart, the dinner cart, you know, a view.

[01:00:31] Liz and Bill: This guy is

[01:00:32] Lance Armstrong: And then we get there about 8:30 in the morning, and the motorcycle and all that takes about a half hour to get off.

We go into the Crystal City Hyatt, where our convention was normally, and s- see what they saw me come through the door at 9:30. "Armstrong, you just get in here?" "We rode all night. I tell you, we rode all night. So tired, I tell you." of course, I sold that little one and got a much nicer CVO, and now her backseat is big and comfortable and beautiful, and she loves it.

[01:01:05] Liz and Bill: Good job.

[01:01:06] Lance Armstrong: Yes. Story with a good

[01:01:07] Liz and Bill: my wife beat me on my side of my ribs to slow down because I had the same, uh, I had the same bike, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

[01:01:15] Lance Armstrong: Yes

[01:01:16] Liz and Bill: Uh, we did not take a train. That would've been so much better. But, uh, well, I thank you so much for everything. Yeah. Thank you so

[01:01:24] Lance Armstrong: Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. Glad to meet you and look forward to seeing and working with you and hopefully, hopefully getting a national contract for your company, Rolling Thunder. Okay? I'll be promoting that in Washington, Halloween weekend at our national convention

[01:01:42] Liz and Bill: Well, we appreciate you. Yeah

[01:01:44] Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to Freedom and Glory: Tales of American Spirit. If today's story moved you, share it with someone who'd appreciate it. Subscribe and leave a review. It helps others find us. And when you're ready for American-made flags and products built to last, visit freedomandglory.com. One flag, a million stories, yours included.