Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
“Words of Wisdom” is an initiative to document and celebrate the stories, insights, and wisdom of Singapore’s senior citizens. It's powered by Folklory, a service dedicated to preserving stories through audio podcasts, who will collaborate with 60 seniors aged 60 and above to create a series of 60 podcasts, each capturing a unique slice of Singapore’s rich history and culture. Find out more info at Folklory.com
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:04
Unknown
Hello there. This is Terence from folkloric. What? You're about to listen to a podcast from the Words of Wisdom project, where we spoke to 60 Singaporeans over the age of 64 as you, 60, and captured their life lessons for the next generation. We hope you enjoy it.
00:00:24:06 - 00:00:48:10
Unknown
And we're here today to do this for glory of Dick. And maybe the best way to start this, or Dick to just give us a brief introduction of yourself as well. Yeah. I am Dick. You. And today is 77 years old. Coming birthday would be 78 in about a few months time. I've been a Singaporean all my life.
00:00:48:12 - 00:01:21:01
Unknown
Born in Singapore, I'm very glad to be born in Singapore. And then, through my early life. Looking. I started my first job, in fact, just a few weeks before 1965, 9th August, independence of Singapore. So I'm really one of those very early days when I was working just before, before 9th August, July of 1965, I landed my first job in government service, 14 years.
00:01:21:03 - 00:01:47:15
Unknown
And then I was with the Ministry of Health, then training to be a public health inspector. They don't. Certified public health inspector under the Ministry of Health. Public health division. Okay. I went for my exams, and, I realized that I did very well in the exam. Did my best. In fact, I quit from the day that I took the exam.
00:01:48:03 - 00:02:19:08
Unknown
But they were surprised when I decided to leave. I made a decision to leave the Ministry of Health, not resign or leave. I'm asking for a transfer to the education service. Okay. So that was a very, very big move for me. Why I did that. Maybe it's good to share. It has had everything to do with, like when you call at the time of the who formed the government in 1965, 9th August in Singapore.
00:02:19:08 - 00:02:40:18
Unknown
You know, the about this time, we were nothing more than a swimming kampung. I was living in Geylang, which was I know what it was an urban already, but training public health inspector. I was roaming all over the island, checking a lot of things and know what is the state of our island is like the health, hygiene, the safety, public security, etc..
00:02:40:20 - 00:03:09:05
Unknown
So when Lee Kuan Yew made a call, I was reading the papers. I heard him criticizing the teachers, of the time, saying that they are soft. They are not building up our children to be a good society. What was very important is this Singapore is not the rugged society because of what you just don't seem to be able to bring up your students to be more rugged.
00:03:09:05 - 00:03:33:19
Unknown
We need to be rugged. We are going country. Okay. So when I see that call, I look at myself. And then I said, what? I thought all our teachers are in school. Did you have, you know, a lot of activities that make us do outdoor camping. You know, hiking, you know, mountain climbing, sailing, canoeing, whatever. Sure. But it wasn't the case.
00:03:33:19 - 00:03:59:08
Unknown
That's why he made the call. He thought that the education was a bit soft. So from 60, it was that when I heard that, then I reacted very, very fast. I told my people, my boss at the Ministry of Health, that I would like to arrange for a transfer to the Ministry of Education. Resigning about transfer from ministry so that I don't have any.
00:03:59:10 - 00:04:24:14
Unknown
And, when was my two years of service in the previous ministry? Health. Okay. And they granted my request most. I went for some interview with the MOU. And then there was in 1967 when I joined the, Ministry of Education. Okay, okay, I'm going to ask, like, what? Are you confident that you you could be a good educator?
00:04:24:16 - 00:04:59:17
Unknown
Oh, I think that's a very excellent question. The confidence that I may be a good teacher in later years, it will be proven. So I, I went to three. I went only in my whole life. I went to three different schools, that's all. And never was never a rolling stone. Why? Because first of all, when I was in school, I was also in the scout troop, Victoria School, very active scout and did a lot of things, a lot of activities.
00:04:59:19 - 00:05:20:09
Unknown
Very independent person myself. And my parents would leave me during school days not worried about where I could go, where that come back or don't come back. They do not worry because in primary school I was already very independent. I used to get a bicycle and cycle to Khartoum, and then I do fishing and swim in the open sea in Khartoum.
00:05:20:09 - 00:05:44:19
Unknown
But as a school boy, you know myself, some come from French rebel group. We do a lot of all this outdoor thing, and I would like to sit back and do this in the 50s and then 60s. So when I was in that Victoria School, I was, holding quite, a post there as, actually a senior patrol leader.
00:05:44:19 - 00:06:04:21
Unknown
Then I actually volunteered to come back to the school to help them for almost ten years, almost as a Scott Master Scout leader. So that's why that was a call in the 60s. That was when after I finished my schooling, because I was working. So I heard this call from Lee Kuan Yew, which is not good. But then I know I was in the scout troop.
00:06:04:23 - 00:06:30:23
Unknown
We were very good. I think we used to do so many things in that way. I thought, hey, they need some guidance in this school. Maybe I should go there and do some teaching myself and then, concentrate in group students, work is, you know, rather in office. I was not gaining. I was not gaining for any kind of a magician in the admin of it become a vice principal.
00:06:31:03 - 00:06:57:02
Unknown
But that's never my my light pigment working in the office, but working with students I thought I could do because I was working with my junior scouts, I. So I was helping them throughout my years there volunteering. You see. So that's it. That gave me the confidence that I should go to, try my my, my hand at, being a teacher in education, and that's what I did.
00:06:57:04 - 00:07:20:12
Unknown
So I started in 67, went to DC and straight away got immersed into a very active, you just reading college life, okay, that, I never was one to like other student. Maybe not. After the lectures, they were all just go back and then tomorrow to come back like that daily, like, just five times a week. And then we are teaching in the school already.
00:07:20:13 - 00:07:44:12
Unknown
Know you teach other day and you go like this, but I we must myself in many of the activities under the college became one of the very active student years there. So I was, so, so many things under the College of Teacher Training, vice captain of the, rowing and canoeing team. I was a instructor at the camp.
00:07:44:14 - 00:08:09:18
Unknown
Okay, you just the where you put that? Youth leadership training camp? We do it all twice a year, and you got involved in a lot more things, but, the. So let me for our bones because in 1969, I ran plenty an year. And even the first group to climb the highest mountain in Malaysia, that is the first Singaporean group.
00:08:09:20 - 00:08:31:17
Unknown
Then they of US six, six students from NGC, that's the only JSC at that time. In 1969, we chose them. And then four of us are the oldest, all from the, all from the education. And so we, we did it there and it was always in the papers, you know, that there was interview or TV years or anything.
00:08:32:24 - 00:08:45:15
Unknown
Anyone learn from there. And also that that that's a very important thing. When I went to GDC. All the people that my was, my future wife was.
00:08:45:17 - 00:09:05:19
Unknown
Yeah it was, it was I think was the one is like all this was arranged by a divine purpose from heaven. I never I was not going there to look for anything, you know, but I, I found my way in the same class as me. So we were attending lectures, not two, but three years. It. But the first year.
00:09:05:20 - 00:09:26:12
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, in that sense, maybe you were asking the. So, how did a love develop between you and your wife? Was it love at first sight or what? What was? No, definitely not the first. It was love at first sight thing. You only hear of this thing, when it got pops, it probably it popped up outside your eyes.
00:09:26:14 - 00:09:51:12
Unknown
Just saw you dancing on the floor. It that. No, no, it has to be developed. This one out of a billion, many billions of people on planet Earth. And then is all you you could actually meet someone also overseas? Not necessarily Singapore. Yeah. We were in the same class. And then there were other ladies as well. I know I my wife, I know most of them were their classmates, but maybe what we had in common, that's important.
00:09:51:19 - 00:10:12:00
Unknown
I didn't know what what we had until we started to talk in a class. We do not hold any position in the class. It's is not a cluster. At night, there was like. But once out of the our lecture class, I would like that she was as active as I was the day she was very active and so so a student leader in the college.
00:10:12:03 - 00:10:42:20
Unknown
We were for example, we big project that we organized. Did you see fun way to raise funds for whatever charity or for whatever purposes. And that's a big program for the whole college. And then this will be run by us, the students. So she was involved and I was involved actually, originally I was not involved, but she, being my classmate, came to grab me to volunteer to be involved.
00:10:42:22 - 00:11:03:24
Unknown
And that's how we got closer. So we have to work a lot. Know what you do? Many, many months of working before the and such activities got us, put us in a situation where we all get fun, you know, socialize. I can find out her background teaching people. She was also pictures of them in the school that then, then I found out that.
00:11:03:24 - 00:11:26:15
Unknown
Wow. Where are you. Good man one and one mixed two. She was also in the good lakes. Okay. The good that is the equivalent of the, the sculpture were all boys. The girls are in the good guys. Okay. And then she was also okay. What do you call that. Mr.. Was later she became that commissioner, assistant commissioner and all that and you know.
00:11:27:12 - 00:11:55:17
Unknown
So she drove a campaign and she loves to go all the activities with the guys and to, to fund it. I was also very deeply involved in scouting at that time I was still involved. So there was a common problem I think. But the common interest I understand. So yes. Yes. But what do you think has been the secret to the longevity in your relationship with the secret?
00:11:55:17 - 00:12:17:11
Unknown
Well. I don't know whether I should call it a secret or not. Okay. But I think it's more like, the two of us having made that decision. And by the way, we made it quite early. We, we we discussed we were very serious young adults didn't we. I don't know what men are so serious in our life.
00:12:17:13 - 00:12:45:00
Unknown
More serious than my elder brothers. My sisters and you about the same. Yeah. We graduated. We finish up in like 1970 the year we graduated. We passed out in April. By end of the year we were married. Oh that was so fast. You see that. No not. I was thinking in my mind I proposed to her since we are together I did not have anything to disturb us next time.
00:12:45:00 - 00:13:13:21
Unknown
But then you continue your career in a new school. You might meet other people, other womenfolk, and she may go to another school. I don't mean what I said. Let's think about our future together if you are interested. I proposed to her. Be brave. Be courageous. Let's marry early. Get my parents permission. I have four other brothers, beside myself in the family.
00:13:13:23 - 00:13:37:22
Unknown
One, two. Three, four. That means I'm also the five sense in my family. We are big family. And I have, four sisters in my family also. Okay. Among the sons, I was the first to be married. Yet I was not the oldest. I got another three brothers that were way ahead of me, and they were all not married yet when in 1917.
00:13:37:24 - 00:14:02:10
Unknown
So I have to go and talk with my parents as if I were to propose to get married. Of course I brought my wife with me. Then. Would they be, in any way, objective me in this kind of Asian tradition where they were the younger one can get married before the one. So I was very glad when my father was very forward thinking, even, that my father is just a simple Chinaman.
00:14:02:10 - 00:14:26:22
Unknown
He's a very good worker for many construction, that there is quite such a small one. And, he never objected. Good. Very good. I think he was waiting for the others to take the lead, but it didn't happen. So is it very good when you say that my mother did not object to see me? They. I think they're both equally.
00:14:26:22 - 00:14:47:17
Unknown
Yeah. That's true. What do you think? Really hoping that the others would find a partner and get married before the younger ones? Usually, if that were, the Asian thing of, you know, steeped in the hierarchy structure. So there's been a blessing. Okay. Then we got married, I see, and in that way, they reminded me not to forget.
00:14:47:17 - 00:15:10:06
Unknown
I think you are the not the youngest. I'm the second youngest of the sons in the family that, on your wedding day, you must make sure that you invite all your brothers. Friends. You see, you cannot leave them alone. So I invited everybody. My eldest brother, the two brothers, a friend, the company friends, my step brother. I see the younger one.
00:15:10:06 - 00:15:28:10
Unknown
The younger. The younger one would be. You don't have to invite a friend. But the one above you, you got to invite them. They are friends with you. And I know they are friends, you see. Okay, so I was a very outgoing person. I meet their friends. I mean, I knew all of them, but some of them, my friends.
00:15:28:12 - 00:15:59:09
Unknown
Okay? I mean, we will I will ask you about friends a bit later, but I did want to ask you in that case, what advice do you have for young people in choosing a partner? Now, what's the most important quality to look out for? For young people. Yeah. To choose a partner, I think you do. You have to be be very, very sure in your assessment that that is the.
00:15:59:09 - 00:16:19:09
Unknown
But know that you want to live with. We do not know for how long, but for the rest of your life that is a minor. You are going to build a family with the means. Family is very important. You are willing to start a family with that partner and she also has to say must have similar views going forward.
00:16:19:11 - 00:16:48:14
Unknown
The button and you cannot have divergent view. It won't work if the two start early. Divergent view. I think you better set this table, wait a moment and then reassess. Both must have common views going forward. How about when you're married, where you're going to stay? What about Singapore? Is of housing okay? When you live, how are you going to, sustain the family?
00:16:48:19 - 00:17:16:18
Unknown
Two person living alone without children? Quite easy, no problem. But with the additional, arrival of children, I think, for example, you have to be very serious about it. And my wife had to stop work after she graduated from three. But did you want to stop in the 1973 up that she got a five year wait? We had to look after our first daughter, who was born in 1971.
00:17:16:20 - 00:17:38:04
Unknown
Then then it is subsequently the second daughter in 1976. She sacrificed so much of her and we career we stopped work, resign, you know, because at that time there's no minutes. I remember those days that we did. You can just apply for me, housekeeper or whatever from so many countries. But there isn't such a thing in Singapore.
00:17:38:07 - 00:18:04:23
Unknown
We are young couple no longer working, who left our job to challenge. We going to a, nursery school. But I went about feeding the child that we are working very long hours in school, you see. So she resigned. Really made a very big sacrifice to resign for five years. No, to be a full time. I was way then only way back in 1979 to apply to go back to, to educate.
00:18:04:23 - 00:18:25:03
Unknown
They welcome me back very warmly. But you lost five years. Yeah, but eventually you see the divine help. They know that you will have a very good intention, that you want to continue to go in her career until when she retired, she was a school superintendent, even with that five year lapse, she still climb the ladder.
00:18:25:05 - 00:18:51:20
Unknown
So in my case I say my I was just about that different. I retired earlier than my time. I could have gone on to 60 but I retired at 58 the last few years. I do want to work because I want to encourage my two daughters. By the time we are two daughters, to have children, especially my younger daughter who was married already but still without any kids.
00:18:51:20 - 00:19:14:07
Unknown
So I was there, you know, at nine full time, I can run about doing a lot of things. I can go and pick up the kids and then the enjoyment come and stay with us, my myself and my wife at our place. And that was what we did for 20 years. Our grandchildren became, 2 to 5 boys, three from the first daughter, two from the younger daughter.
00:19:14:09 - 00:19:39:17
Unknown
And they stay at our place and holiday school holiday. So that the two daughters and the husband can focus on their job and their career. We don't worry. That is to me family planning ahead of the time that you were talking about family planning. Back in the 70s already, I said I will retire to my wife that time when the time come.
00:19:39:21 - 00:20:01:15
Unknown
I would not go anyway. I would retire early. If they do not produce children, I want them. That's the foundation of marriage of I think the foundation of marriage is family. So we are talking about love. Yes. Love is important. Love is more on the emotional side, but also planning need to go into keeping this thing going.
00:20:01:20 - 00:20:25:13
Unknown
Marriage. Sure. Marriage. Come with children. Children. And then there are a lot of responsibilities. You know, the two adopting the husband and wife. The parents need to plan. It cannot happen by chance. Yeah, okay. I mean, we understand. We. We speak and spoken quite a bit about, you know, relationships and, family. I did want to ask you about friendships as well.
00:20:25:15 - 00:20:50:10
Unknown
Sure. Because, you know, I'm sure across the years you've, you know, you've, had friends, a lot of friends. Friends, even people you worked with. You have become friends at all. What do you think is the most important quality of the friends who have stayed by your side through the years? Well, there are a lot of friends. One would make true life true from the early days.
00:20:50:12 - 00:21:14:14
Unknown
You know, primary school friends, secondary school friends, friends. You know, people who live with you in your come from your childhood, whatever. Are a lot of this. But they were all great. Gravitate to their own area, so they move all over the world. Some and some of us, we. But there must be. As we grow older, we need to know all these things and then build new friendship.
00:21:15:04 - 00:21:42:02
Unknown
Even at work, when out of work, you know for example I'm a retiree you know, so I don't have any friends who develop attention with me because I'm, I'm retired on my own. Joyce, I am so happy that I get but I have a lot of friends in the social circle. I'm not referring to Facebook friends, a lot of Facebook friends, but real friends because I do music, I do them all free of charge.
00:21:42:02 - 00:22:08:18
Unknown
I don't charge them anything. So the community. So I also spend a lot of time giving my volunteering service to the community and, Serangoon Community Center for a long time already, since the late 70s to the 80s. And, you know, I do, and I have never, never touched a cent for anything I do is a volunteer.
00:22:08:20 - 00:22:30:04
Unknown
I do a lot of things. I babysit in some committees and so on. But now I spend my time doing music, and the music is the one that make you meet a lot of friends. So how can a friend to have? Well, simple. I will say that, if you want to have good friends, I very, very good friend, very loyal.
00:22:30:06 - 00:22:59:22
Unknown
We leave nothing to chance. We develop the relationship very open, very loyal. And he's based on, principles. Okay. Friends. Real good friends. They will help you. Whatever you, don't. Period. You have they have also. And they will be there to help them. If I don't beat it, they will be there for me also, without question. How will how is this possible?
00:22:59:22 - 00:23:23:16
Unknown
Is possible because people know, how to build it. The common way that we don't play politics, you know, in know my life, I never believe in politics. And people will know you you you cannot. Hey I'm like my, one of my former bosses, told me that he even wrote to me and in a very special letter he says I know your quality.
00:23:23:18 - 00:23:46:10
Unknown
You have not had that time, that you have not yet been promoted, you know. But don't worry. Good quality cannot remain hidden for long. It will just come out of yourself like a flower in the city that you will bloom. So that boss is very correct. Once you start blooming, then a lot of flowers came up. You must have worked hard.
00:23:46:12 - 00:24:06:13
Unknown
Don't be any malice. Even people who do me wrong, I usually tell them I forgive you, but don't repeat again the same mistake I forgive you. And then when I retire, the people who get me wrong while I was working, they came to apologize. We really did you wrong. We wanted to bring you down because I wasn't. We were saying what?
00:24:06:18 - 00:24:24:23
Unknown
What I could do, what I say, I can do many things. I mean, when you first started do the how do you have the full confidence of your job as a teacher. Right. I have full courses. I can do more than a teacher. More than a teacher. Yeah. So all my former students, are you able to show you all the evidence on Facebook.
00:24:25:21 - 00:24:43:24
Unknown
Every day. The first school I thought the second and the final school by the hundreds and then my they will always, you know, have nothing but positive things to achieve. Not for you. My life would have gone down this path. Not for you might have really gone down the wrong path. No, that's the kind of thing I like.
00:24:43:24 - 00:25:03:22
Unknown
That's why I work at the ground level. My principal wanted to promote me to vice principal to this. As you know I will always remain at the most ahead of my but and doing way more than the head of department. I will work 24 hours a day from September to Sunday. I don't know, hours I will work on because I want to solve that problem.
00:25:03:24 - 00:25:31:13
Unknown
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I mean it does sound like that there are lots, you know, young people who you've had the chance to educate and pass on lessons to them as well. I did want to ask, because we are recording this as part of, you know, SG 60 and, project. Right. Wonderful. What do you wish for Singapore's next 60 years for future generations of Singaporeans?
00:25:31:17 - 00:25:59:02
Unknown
What do you hope for them? Well, I hope really that we can continue to grow. As a country, as a people also going forward, but not by looking down into other countries, we must never do that because we must treat all the other countries, even our nearby Asian countries. I've got many friends, actually, as, as people who can help.
00:25:59:02 - 00:26:28:20
Unknown
We can help them. How we think of help, how we can help them. That's what our government is, a very good government. We try to build bridges. We are trying to build bridge. And, I got one of those bridges almost given to me on the plateau when in 1972, I was one selected out of hundreds and hundreds who applied for the Asian you voyage, sponsored by Japan since 1972.
00:26:28:22 - 00:26:54:10
Unknown
The cost, I don't know, it cost about 350,000 USD to sponsor one person for for our one and a half months. They in you as well as in Japan. It's very, very expensive. Together with more than a thousand Japanese on the ship. So why was Japan doing that? Because they realized that they had done so much wrong in World War Two.
00:26:54:12 - 00:27:20:24
Unknown
The imperial, the, the Imperial Japanese, forced us to really destroy too much of Asia and Southeast Asia as well. So they want to rebuild. Yeah. So sorry, but I didn't find it hard to say sorry openly. You see what they do that they were doing in education. So they pay for each country. Some places only two, but most of us, all from Malaysia, Thailand, you know, all for the leaders.
00:27:21:01 - 00:27:47:14
Unknown
So from Singapore also for and I was I cannot believe that in my application how out of hundreds to apply. I went for the interview and I was selected the leader of the Singapore delegation. So what I did go there probably was because we are building bridges. Also, I was speaking on behalf of Singapore at a new conference in Okinawa capital Naha, then the on board the YouTube.
00:27:47:14 - 00:28:08:23
Unknown
There was American advisors because America was based in Japan that postwar said, the economy said Mr.. Mr.. Do you when you do your final speech, I was picking the final speaker for the whole of it. You know, the grown ups speaking Singapore. They say it must be must be good, but you don't know whether I'm a good speaker.
00:28:09:00 - 00:28:35:21
Unknown
However, I picked up my speech and I put it in my pocket, you know, and then I look it the moment I look at my speech, because the American I said, don't mention anything about the wall we want because we are just host being hosted by Japan. Something came into my head at the time like a lightning, and I put the whole speech back into my pocket and spoke without the speech.
00:28:36:00 - 00:29:08:07
Unknown
That mean I was talking spontaneously, verbatim. What I was speaking was from the hub and we really went down very well with everybody, including even ourself with the Japanese, because later they had the newspaper cutting and I still have the photo they kept for me, only written in Japanese kanji. Among the things I said was I just told him, I have this speech with that, but I know that if I were to just do the speech, it is not from my heart.
00:29:08:09 - 00:29:33:08
Unknown
He is meant to make a speech, which is just to please the people who are hearing. But I say no, I am not that kind of person. I will speak frankly from my heart who I speak from. Random variable. They all remember this speaker from, Singapore. Because I touch on the Japanese voice. I would not have been here if I had listened to my mother's advice.
00:29:33:10 - 00:30:02:13
Unknown
I told my mother, I am I on my father's oath? Yeah, I have been selected. No, I will show how of the blue up by the, decision sponsoring authority of Japan to go on a trip to Japan. So they say Japan don't go. They don't minister in Japan. Don't go there. You can see the animosity there in the old people that my brother, my, my, my father's brother was one with the subject matter with him.
00:30:02:13 - 00:30:24:15
Unknown
We never saw him. It he was one of those killed by the Japanese. But they told me not to go by saying no, no, no, my brain terminal. That's, that's the all. Well, so they introduced to me too easily 27 years from 1945. I said, we have to build bridges. We cannot live on the bus. Yeah. So this is what I'm going to share about going forward.
00:30:24:17 - 00:30:47:23
Unknown
You see, you see in Japan today, it was teaching opportunity for all the countries after the war. Three we didn't go on the war. Yeah, right. So Singapore must develop that that going forward. Do we think the bus is important so that we can improve on the present? Yeah. But the person, if you plan it properly, will lead us to the future.
00:30:48:00 - 00:31:08:21
Unknown
That's in my life. That's the thing. All we planned, it really came up. But I like a green boiler. That was it was due to good planning and we divided up probably. But I don't blame the credit. It's all thanks to God. I.
00:31:08:23 - 00:31:38:16
Unknown
Hello again. I hope you enjoyed listening to that for clarity. Words of wisdom is a project by Charlotte Coal, powered by Phil Cleary and supported by our Singapore Fund. To find out more, please visit our website at Aecom. That's f okay. Oh our we decomp. Goodbye.