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Elite Heat is the All Elite Wrestling podcast for fans who want more than just a recap.
Every week, Tim and Dug — two AEW fans who've been All Elite since day one — react to AEW Dynamite and Collision, break down the latest storylines, analyze the characters driving the product, and give you their unfiltered take on everything happening in All Elite Wrestling.
From weekly show reactions to PPV breakdowns, roster moves to long-term booking analysis, Elite Heat covers the full spectrum of AEW. No fluff, no filler...just two passionate pro wrestling fans who care deeply about the product and aren't afraid to say exactly what they think.
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I think Brody King is so underrated as a legit professional wrestler.
He's paying attention. He's being a he's moving the story forward. He's not letting the action drag. that's a little thing, but it's really a pretty big thing.
We have to talk about a Dynamite live from Norfolk, Virginia, this evening, where
Norfolk.
things happened.
Interesting. Okay.
And I'm not sure what else to say.
Okay. This is off to an interesting start.
Well, I wouldn't say it was bad. You know, there was nothing bad
No.
about it, but just things happened and some of them made
Well yeah.
me scratch my head and some didn't.
Okay.
Yeah, I'll I'll I'll hand you that. Yeah, that makes sense to me. That makes sense to me.
To be fair, that's just kind of everyday for me. That's most things where I'm like, huh, that made me scratch my head and this other thing
Same. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
didn't. And whatever.
Yeah. A lot of times I'm just like, Did something happen? And then someone has to let me know and then I forget what they said.
Yeah, that's yeah. So anyway, let's talk about it. So
Yeah.
let's heat check it to begin with.
Okay.
So this time you're gonna go and then I'm going to
Yes.
either agree or disagree with you and
I'm gonna
I'm gonna do something weird. I'm gonna start
That's expected.
I'm gonna start with Mayo.
okay.
Because my mayo, it's my only mayo, is for HBO. Because they
Mm.
made me upgrade my subscription in order to watch Dynamite, which I was not happy about.
What level did you have?
I had the first level basic and I
Uh-huh.
had to every time I tried to hit play, they're like, You've gotta upgrade. So I had to pay eighty extra bucks.
Eighty
For the year, for the the difference.
Now I'm gonna look at mine because I don't
think
Yeah.
They made me upgrade tonight. And so that got
I don't think I'm
That mayoed me
I don't blame you. I would be too. I'm mad at it for you.
I'm mad at it.
So anyway, that's my mayo. So we'll go back to the normal
Yeah.
thing. Here's a heat check. Hot now I will say I missed the very beginning because I had to subscribe again and I missed the first part.
Yeah.
So I don't know what happened.
But I will say, the opening eight-man tag, hot. Darby and Christian tagging each other out, hot. Loved it. Christian holding up the TNT title at the end. Hot. Loved it. The Death Rider promo after that? Hot.
This is with a caveat.
That that's that's
one I'm gonna it was mild for me.
That's fair. And this next one I am gonna put a caveat on. We'll get into it when we talk about it. But I'm gonna say the Birds and Divine Dominion promo was hot. And I have a reason why.
Okay.
and as we've discussed, there are varying degrees of hot before you get to mild.
I'm
Mm-hmm.
putting Jericho Nick Wayne in hot again for a pretty specific reason. I will say the Willow Mercedes Thekla package was hot mostly because of Thekla.
Mm-hmm.
I thought the backstage with Will, Akira, and Andrade was good. That was hot. The
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Orange Cassidy high fives during the match was hot. Hangman and Orange
Yes. Yes. I totally agree.
riding each other around, also hot.
Mm-hmm.
the match itself, hot. Loved it. The Andy Williams recap. I also wrote, damn it.
Because it made
Yep.
me choke up again.
Yep. Yep. Me too.
Okay, this may surprise you because Myles already in the ring Hawkins. I'm giving a hot to. And we can talk about it then. During
Okay.
the match. And to follow that up with, Ciampa's knee. Giving that a hot. I thought The Demand attacking New House was hot.
Okay. A new house. I like that. I like that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm I'm waffling on the Jack Perry promo, whether it should be in
Mm.
hot or mild. I think what pushes it to hot is him calling out Samoa Joe.
Agreed.
I think Lena Kross versus Bird One, Jamie Hayter was a good match. That's in the hot. Backstage with Okada was hot. And I have Akira rolling up Mox during one of his weird poses as hot. And the main event, of course, was in the hot. There you go. That's
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
a lot of hot. That's a lot of hot going on. Well.
It is a lot of hot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I I would agree with you on all of that. The only thing, like I said, the Ciampa versus Already in the ring was mild for me. Death Rider's promo was mild for me.
Okay.
it's closer to hot, but still hit my mild. you can probably guess why.
I agreed with you on er on everything. The only here's what you missed, because you had to upgrade
yeah.
just that real quick.
Damn it.
basically there was a backstage with Darby.
Cope and Sting Jr. And then Christian came up and did the he looked at Sting Jr. and said, you know, I'm sorry to hear about your father. And
It up!
Cope like cut him off and he goes, I was going to say, I'm sorry to hear about your father's in ring career being over, or whatever.
Basically, a it would have been a fine promo. Like I would have been going, like, yeah, it was fine. You know, it was these guys doing their thing. It's sowing a little bit of tension and you know, talking about the upcoming match. But Christian was so good that it has to go into the hot for me because he's just again, everything he does right now is so good.
He is on fire right now.
yeah, he's absolutely on fire. And then after that, Big Stoke cut a promo. Don Callis talked a little bit.
in it Fletcher talked a little bit, Knight talked a little bit. So it there wasn't a ton to it, but you know, you had two of the best managers in the game doing manager things, and I'm okay with that. So
Yeah.
I was fine with with both of those. The the first one is better just because of Christian, but you know, that's all you
yeah.
missed.
Yeah. in my mild category, I have the necklace thing of Nick Wayne. Didn't didn't like that. I
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
have Ciampa calling out Okada. Meh. Also
Yeah.
the birds backstage bit after their after haters match. Meh.
Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with you on all those. and that pretty much covers the show, I think.
And then like I said, May
Yeah, and then Mayo, HBO, suck it.
Yeah, no, I agre I agree with you on all that. So really the only thing that I think you and I split on were that Death Riders promo. And then I'm curious. I think I know what you're gonna say about Ciampa versus Already in the ring. I think I know what you liked about it, but we'll see. So yeah, otherwise,
I'm sure you got it right.
Probably. So all right, let's talk about this show. like I said,
Yeah.
we opened with those promos. Christian was great. That's really all you need to talk about there. I would recommend going and watching just that part of it because again, Christian is awesome. But the
Yeah. I would if
they wouldn't have charged me $80.
Yeah. Well, now that you paid that much, you might as well go watch
the beginning of it because get your money's worth. Yeah. Get your money's worth, man. Yeah.
you're you know what? You're right. I'm gonna watch it again. The whole thing. Get my money. Screw.
I think you could have gotten a ticket to be at the show for less than that, but
Pretty close.
anywho. that would roll into the eight-man tag match that I agree with you. I really liked this one.
Yeah.
I think it makes all the sense in the world.
To keep putting Sting Jr. in the ring with veterans like these guys. I think it helps
Mm-hmm.
him progress. I like
Yep. I
the coffin scorpion death drop.
Yes, that's that's very good. That's very
Mm-hmm.
good. I I think this is the best use of Steve Stingson that they have right now is to keep him involved like this 'cause it limits it it accentuates his his positives and it hides his weaknesses. And his positives are he's strong, he looks great, and he can jump really a damn high. So
He's
fast. I noticed that tonight too. He's fast.
He's very quick. Very quick. And there's something about him just wearing the leather jacket to the ring. He has I can't decide what that reminds me of.
his dad.
No, it I know white no, because it's the black jacket, leather jacket, I don't I don't know what
It's not as
it is. It might be Terminatory. I don't know.
Yeah, no, I'll give you that. It is Terminatory. It's not as long, but it's very similar to the jacket that his dad first started wearing when he started doing the crow bit. 'Cause I saw a side by side
Yeah. Yeah. I mean blackjack it.
of and I was like, okay, yeah. But yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I I
I mean he totally looks like his father, but yeah. But yeah, I like that I think that's great.
yeah, I agree with you on the Terminator thing. I think you're I think you're spot on there.
look at
me go.
So
yeah, I I thought it I thought it was good. Yeah. Fun match. Then the Death
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Riders promo.
what
did what did you not like? Was it the Gabe Kidd part that you didn't like?
That didn't bother me that much. I'm
Yeah.
accepting that that's just who he is. You know, again, he threatens murder of we're gonna chop you up into little pieces and spread your body around. Like, bro, what? No, you're not. No, you're not. You're not gonna do that.
Yeah. Yeah. No.
We all know you're not gonna do that. Just stop it.
And if you do, it's the last time we'll see you.
Yeah, yeah.
With Gabe Kidd, he just is what he is. I'm not gonna
Mm-hmm.
ever probably really enjoy his work. That's fine. So I took him and I just kind of removed him from it, right? So I guess if if I were gonna really deconstruct the promo, Kid would be mild, right?
what what really parked it in the mild for me is Mox was a little bit he backslid a little bit in my mind and went backwards to the I'm gonna talk like this a lot. And I'm gonna
Yeah.
weave my head and my shoulders and I'm gonna say a lot of words.
But I'm not sure any of actually makes sense in this order. And that's what I didn't like. He lost me. When I say he lost me, I don't mean he lost me from I was confused. He lost me from I stopped paying attention. And if I
That that that I get, yeah.
yeah, if I tune out, if I zone out during a promo, your your promo probably didn't do what you needed it to do.
Mm-hmm.
Now, what I will say that I liked about it and I very much put into the hot category.
Was PAC's part of it. Because when he stared, turned and basically stared down Mox talking about the Ospreay stuff. I like, now that is the part of the promo that matters. However,
Yes.
because that is the part of the promo that matters, and it came at the end, we could have condensed this, right? And I get it. I get it that they're doing the overrun to make TBS happy. I get all that. But you could have
Mm-hmm.
cut.
Gabe Kidd or at least cut him down significantly, you could have trimmed Mox down, had him make a little bit more sense, be a little bit less rambly, and gotten to the PAC part faster, and it makes it a better promo. Cause I had to kind of lock back in when PAC started talking, you know?
I I'll agree with that. And I kind of like I I did like Moxley's bit. It was a little retro rambly, but I liked the the it could have been shorter, but I liked the content and
Yeah, i yeah.
I thought it was fine. Oddly enough, other than the very end of Gabe Kidd's promo where he threatens murder, I liked what he was doing because I felt like he was more focused. Yes, he was a little crazy balls, but he was a little more focused and then he
Mm-hmm.
went too far with the attempted murder at the end. But I I liked him up until that point. I was like, okay, I'd rather see more of this. And I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but I and I mean this sincerely and it's a compliment. I think Gabe Kidd should watch old Buzz Sawyer tapes and emulate what Buzz Sawyer was doing because that is so up his alley and I think it would help him refine that character a little bit more and make him more appealing. But that's that's just me as being an old school fan. But
No,
I I yeah, I think you're right on that. And I think I think that that's what it is. And and I think that that has kind of been what has never really clicked for me, not just with Gabe Kidd, but with Death Rider Jon Moxley as well, is that I'm not really sure what the character is. I've got a pretty good idea, but when you look at it of could you give me the elevator pitch, right?
Like
Right.
Give me the elevator pitch of MJF. he's a prick. You know.
Yep. Yeah.
Give me the elevator pitch of Will Ospreay. He's an athletic freak that is here to have a good time. You know.
Yep. Mm-hmm.
one of the best in the world. You know, give me the Kenny Omega elevator pitch. One of the best wrestlers you're ever gonna see. Right? Like, I mean, yeah,
That's about machine. Yeah.
you know, I mean, you can do this with a lot of these pretty well defined characters. Christian, he's gonna talk about your dad being dead. You know, like
And he wrestles in a turtleneck that's got the sleeves cut off. Like, but with Mox,
Still the past.
I would have to be like, okay, so he's kind of crazy, but kind of not. And he's super intense, but he also might be the best teacher on the roster, but we're also not really sure. And he's got this group of guys who might be good or might be bad. I'm not really sure. Like, there's too many times that I'd be going, I'm not really sure. And I can't get it out in the span of an elevator ride. And that's
Mm-hmm.
the same thing.
Well, I think if somebody asked me about Gabe Kidd, I would go, Well, he's just a nutbag. So I guess good on you, Gabe Kidd, 'cause at least there's that. But that's where
Yeah. Yeah. But you're right, with
with Mox it's like he's not full on like cult leader Manson like. But he he's borderline, like he's kind of edging towards that, but he he backs away pretty quick and then he's kind of coherent and I'm I look I have passion for the business and this is all what it's about. But then it's like I'm also sadistic and don't mind, you know, ripping your nipples off. So
It is a weird blend and which it's tonight's was weird because you and I both agreed that he had been getting a little more focused and a little more settled
Yeah.
in and that's why this kind of half step backwards didn't feel great. So I I get it one hundred percent.
Yeah.
I I will be completely honest. Everything involving Jon Moxley tonight disappointed me a little. Like, not so much that I would call it bad. Not
Yeah. Yeah.
so much that I would be like, man, it ruined the show. Nothing like that. Nothing like that. But
Right. Mm-hmm.
it just disappointed me because I think it moved him in the wrong direction. I think that he backslid into that guy again. And that
Mm-hmm.
That's disappointing to me because like I said, for me personally, that character has never clicked with me.
Yeah.
I I think oddly that was kind of intentional in only not for the but
I think it definitely is, yeah.
not for the reasons they think like I think the reason they're doing that, I think you know, is that they're they're building distance between him and PAC and Kid and then whoever else falls on which side. So but they could have done that differently without having him backslide so much in his character and continue to grow that character in a more positive way.
That is more focused and it still would have worked.
Yeah. So I mean, we'll put a bow on this, but we'll because it's gonna play into later tonight. But what I would say to that is you're right. If you want to continue to create that distance between him and PAC specifically, but really him and PAC and Gabe Kidd and and you know, sow those seeds, then he just needed to keep doing what he was doing. And
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
to have him kind of move away from that, and particularly to have him move away from it later, you know, after the main event.
I don't think you needed to do that. And and I'll explain it more when we get there. I don't have a huge problem with it.
I understand why they did it. It just disappoints me personally a little bit. We'll
Yeah. No, I get it. Yeah.
we'll talk about it more when we get to the main event. So then Jericho and Nick Wayne.
Before that, I had this in my hot. The Birds Divine Dominion package. And here's
you're right. I accidentally skipped that. My bad.
why. I think, especially with the birds right now, they need to keep their promos to these pre-produced packages because that is where they excel, that is where they shine, that is where they look good. That is where they tell a better story because they can now intercut it. And
And it will reflect later, which I have more to say about it, but yeah, I I liked I really liked that that package. I thought it did a great job. It built that story. It did everything it needed to do. So yeah, I really liked it.
No, I I totally agree with you. I completely skipped that by accident. I just scrolled down too far on my notes
No, that's fine.
here. But no, I I thought it was a good video. It explains the match that's been made for All Out.
Mm-hmm.
It I I really liked when Lena had the line of why would you put weapons in our hands? I thought that was a great line.
Yeah, that was really good.
Yeah, I thought the video was very good. I thought it did a lot of good for all four
of those women. So yeah, I
Mm-hmm.
agree. It was good.
Then Jericho and Nick.
Yes. I'm I'm curious to hear your your take on this match. I have several thoughts.
Yeah, I think I do too. my first thought was I felt like it should be on the All Out card, but then I think what happened after the match solidifies it it will be probably with a stipulation.
Probably, yeah.
I thought the match itself was pretty good.
as I've talked about for a couple of weeks on the show, I like putting Nick Wayne with Jericho because say what you want about this version of Chris Jericho, and I think there are a lot of different things that can be said about present day Jericho, but this is a guy who has been doing this for
Damn near as long as I've been alive.
Yeah, he's been at it a while. Yeah.
And you need to put him, as I have been saying, with a guy like Nick Wayne, let him help teach these young guys. Let him show them by doing it, right?
Yeah.
Let them learn by doing. Let him show them by being in the ring with them. And and this is how I call a match, and this is why I do what I do, and this is how I feed off the crowd. And, you know, I think
Mm-hmm.
it's a a really good pairing. The match was pretty good. I don't think
Yep. Yeah.
you're gonna get like a
Jaw on the floor. my God, that was incredible. Match out of Jericho ever again.
No.
that's okay. I thought it was pretty good.
However,
I will say the the DVD on the apron from Jericho to Wayne was oo okay.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's gonna
pull out a couple moves, at least one move per match where you go, okay, you know, like he's still got it in there a little bit, but you know, I don't think he's ever gonna I don't know how many five star matches he had over the cour the course of his career anyway. And that's not a a knock on him. It's
No.
truly not.
that doesn't in any way diminish his career. He
No.
the guy is clearly a first ballot Hall of Famer if such a thing existed. And
Exactly.
he's a guy that I think doesn't get into the Mount Rushmore conversation, but probably should be in the conversation.
Yeah, he
he's one of the most consistent performers you'll see top to bottom. He might not have a number of five star matches, but it's gonna be hard pressed to find one star matches out of that guy. He's always performing, always
Yeah. Yep.
top of his game, always putting in what he can. And I respect the hell out of it. and I I I actually like this match. I wrote down better than expected, kinda like Ben Affleck as Batman. Somehow it
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
worked.
Yeah. I I really enjoyed the match. I am looking forward to there being more from these two. So then you got that post match beatdown, and this is where it gets a little for me. number one is because of the necklace thing. I'm with you
That
on that.
for me, that was again, it's a little like the Ciampa thing. I don't mind the fight. I don't mind the beatdown. The necklace thing really took me out of it for a minute. And I'm like, could it be anything else? You didn't need the necklace. You could have just had him beat him and him be pissed about it. You didn't need the necklace. All because he called
Yeah. My thought
it a Puka Shell necklace last week. Who cares?
Right.
My thought on that was it would have made way more sense if the necklace had been a long term part of Nick Wayne's character. Like you remember when Cena wore the like chain,
Mm-hmm.
the literal chain. I'm not talking about like, you know, a gold, like it was a literal.
Length of chain
Yeah.
around his neck with the padlock and he'd take it off and he'd kiss it. And it was like this whole thing, right? Like it represented his ethos and all this stuff. If it was like that, and now you incorporate it into the story of Jericho broke it, then it would make a that would make a lot more sense to me. But nobody talked about the necklace until last week. And now suddenly you got commentary in the very unenviable spot.
Of trying to put it over as, well, it means a lot to him, and that's why he's mad. That's not the story. The story
No.
is you've got a young up-and-comer taking on a legend. That's the story. And not only is he,
Yep. Yeah. You don't need the damn necklace.
yeah, and not only is he a young up and comer, Nick Wayne is a cocky young up-and-comer. And he has been since he came in, basically.
Yeah.
That's the story. this is one of those where if somebody said to me,
I think it's a little overbooked. I would go, you are absolutely right. This is one of those where Tony Khan or whoever came up with this idea, because it may not have been Tony, but whoever came up with this idea, you overthought it. Sometimes less is more. Sometimes
Yeah.
just a simple, straight ahead story of you got an arrogant young jerk taking on, again, a guy who is a first ballot Hall of Famer and, you know, potentially on the Mount Rushmore of professional wrestling.
Mm-hmm.
That's the story.
Yeah.
Bringing the
necklace into it was not good. I got I gotta it while we're talking about it, I gotta be critical on this. That first chair shot from Nick Wayne was one of the worst ones I've seen. He I don't know what happened there, but it was not
There
good.
there were several clunky bits in this match tonight.
Yeah.
And including Jericho spending about seven minutes trying to take the necklace off. And it that alone kind of started to take me out of it. And then the fact that that and seeing that, God, that's gonna be the trigger.
Mm-hmm.
Again, if you watch this match, you edit out the necklace parts, suddenly.
It makes sense and suddenly it's good because you can have Jericho still extend the hand at the end and going, Hey, kid, look, you were you did great. I've just got so much more experience And Nick going, No, no, no, man, no, screw you, no.
Yeah. And
and kicking the ropes as he's getting out. Like you didn't need the necklace for any of that.
Nope.
And and they do this. This is a thing with AEW where sometimes they overthink it and put one too many elements in. It's like, okay, we didn't need that. Look, does it take away from my enjoyment of the match? No. Like I said, did it did it for you? That's fair. That's fair. No, that's
A little a little for me. Just a just a little just a little. Because I'm like, we don't need that and then but
that's fair. That's completely fair.
For me it didn't. And like I said, I assume we're gonna run this back at All Out, probably with some sort of stip. Cool. I'm on board. Let's do
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
it. I just don't want to hear about the necklace. I don't want that to be the story. It's gonna be the story, but it
Right. So help me God
if it's a necklace on a pole match, I'm gonna just go nuts. That may be the only match I'll watch.
I actually hope it is. Yeah.
I actually hope it is now. But anyway. So that's what I thought about it. That sound about right to you or Yeah.
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Like I said,
everything was pretty good. There were some clunky clunky bits. That chair shot was weird. The necklace taking off was weird. But overall, like I said, I I it this was a better match than I anticipated. So I I
Yeah.
it still made my hot.
Yeah. The match definitely makes the hot. The post match stuff is
Yes. No.
I I it'd be somewhere in between, you know.
Well, the postmatch
again, I don't mind the and again, if you just take the reason for the postmatch out, I'm fine with everything. It's a it it
Yeah. Yes, agreed.
shows up. It's no doubt about it being in the hot category.
Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. then Excalibur announced that Mercedes is not cleared for All Out. And gee, who said, I wonder if they put Willow into that because Mercedes isn't might not be cleared and then they're gonna have Willow and Thekla for number one contender match. And this guy called that. right here. This guy right here. So
Hmm. It was you. It was you. Yeah. And it it may
like last week when you said it, it makes all the sense in the world. And
Yeah.
I'm actually I'm actually better with it this way. I think this
I am too.
even storyline wise makes more sense. I don't I don't care if she's really cleared or not. I would much rather see Thekla and Willow go at it because I think that's
Yeah.
a really interesting match. And again, Thekla in that in the package that followed that.
She's the star, man. She is killing
Mm-hmm.
it.
Yep. And that's why I'm I'm actually glad that it has worked out this way. I
Mm-hmm.
would prefer they not rush Mercedes and Thekla. I assume Thekla's gonna win this. I think she should.
Mm-hmm.
And I would prefer they not rush it because you're gonna get multiple weeks of really good promos out of these two. So let's do it. Don't put
Yep. Yeah.
them in the tag matches and stuff. Just let them do promos. The occasional, you know, beat
Yeah.
down when they're face to face is completely fine.
yeah.
So let's do it. I'm I'm on board with it. And I agree with you. I thought the video was great and Thekla was absolutely the star of
yeah. She's so good. I didn't realize how much I missed her until she came back. Was it last week or the week before? Or maybe at the pay per view. But man. So gl I'm
whenever it was. Yeah. Yeah.
so glad she's back. She's so good.
Yep. then we got a United Empire promo, which was fine. Yeah.
I thought it was fun. I liked it.
Yeah, I didn't have any problem with it. It's fine. Yeah.
Yeah, that's all it needs. It was fun.
Yeah. Then conglomeration versus Brohangdo would follow. Not bad. Not
No.
bad.
You know what this match made me realize? Is that I really want to see O'Reilly and Strong get back together as reDRagon because I think
Yes.
now we will appreciate them more. Because when they when they first came in, i
I don't think they had
Or was that him and Bobby
Fish?
Was it was Bobby Fish in reDRagon?
Yeah, I think so.
well never mind. That I d but I still I want to see O'Reilly and strong as a tag team. I
Well, yeah, yeah.
and and have them take them seriously. I think that would be a really good, legit team, and and I wanna see them more of that. I wanna see how that goes, and I think that would be good.
No, I agree. I I think pairing them up makes a lot of sense and letting them go be a team and kind of I was thinking about this tonight. The conglomeration has gone from having a whole bunch of people into it to now it's basically just these three guys. I don't know where Mark Briscoe is. Willow has basically split off from it. Ishii was always in and out, you know. So what if we just go ahead and dissolve it?
And let those two guys go off on their own and you know be a tag team and then Orange Cassidy can do Orange Cassidy things around, I don't know, the international title or the TNT. I don't care. Pick one.
Mm-hmm.
I think what you're saying there makes a lot of sense. But in terms of what we actually saw in terms of the match, I thought it was good. I I enjoyed it more than I thought I was going to going into it.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of that credit goes to Orange Cassidy. The
Yes.
high five chops, like you said in the heat check, was tremendous.
So good.
some of it was a little disjointed looking, if I'm gonna nitpick this one, but overall I thought it was pretty fun. I thought it was entertaining. And look, man, that's what I want for my wrestling. I want it to be fun and entertaining, so I'm not gonna complain about this.
And what's what's weird is I notice I think Brody King is so underrated as a legit professional wrestler. And tonight I and maybe it's just because I was noticing, but it w there was a moment it when he's in the ring, he's got I don't remember who. He's got O'Reilly in the quarter, let's say. No, I think it was strong. He's got Roddy in the corner, he's slapping him. And clearly one I think it's orange or the or O'Reilly is gonna come in, but they're not there. So he
He he does a quick check, goes back, smacks him, does another quick check. And he just he doesn't let it interfere with what's going on in the ring. He's paying attention. He's being a he's moving the story forward. He's not letting the action drag. And I'm like, it's yeah, that's not that's a little thing, but it's really a pretty big thing. Because if he let
Yeah.
that those things distract him and throw him off, then that doesn't
You know, it just takes the believability out. But he he just looks so good in this match. And I just I really like Brody King. I just want to keep seeing him on TV. So bring him on.
No, I
I totally agree with you. I mean, I think we've all seen those matches where something got messed up on timing and somebody had to wait. And and
Yeah. And it looks bad.
it does. And like great pros that have been doing it for a long time usually can figure out on the fly how to cover that.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of people can't. And we've all seen it happen. You go, that sucks, you know.
Well I think the chair shot you called out earlier was a kind
Yeah.
of the kind of a call to that because some I don't know what wasn't right, but something wasn't correct. So yeah.
Yeah. Something went wrong there. Yeah.
And and I think you're absolutely right though,
Brody was really good about catching that. And
Mm-hmm.
I think that yeah, I I think in a match that had a couple of moments where I was like, not sure what happened there on the timing. I didn't really think that about him. So I think you're absolutely right.
to point that out about Brody and he's excellent. He's really, really good.
Can can we also discuss what happened right at the end of the match that commentary didn't mention, and I don't know why it happened.
What I don't
When
when Roddy pushed Orange Cassidy out of the ring and it didn't it
Yes.
didn't look like, Hey buddy, let me save you from this shot, it was get the hell out of the ring.
Yes. I think you're absolutely right to bring that up because it goes back to, I think I mentioned this last week or a couple weeks ago or whatever, of we seem to be moving again, you talk about moving backwards. We seem to be moving Roddy back into the he's angry guy who hates Orange Cassidy and hates all this nonsense. And
I I said it then and I'm gonna say it again. I don't think that splitting Roddy off to go solo, particularly solo as a heel, is the right move.
No.
Now, if you want to split him and Kyle O'Reilly off,
Yeah.
that would be fine. But I I think you have to make a decision like now of when you split them, are they gonna be faces or heels? Because if you do the dynamic of one of each, well, now you're just a cope and cage cover band.
Yeah,
And
and that's not gonna it's not working well right now.
Yeah.
And so that needs to flow. Either that or he needs to speak up and let us know what the hell he's why he's behaving.
Yeah.
So you know, that's infuriating. It's like you don't even see him say things like orange cut it out. You know, you don't even get
Mm-hmm.
those little things. You just get these weird moments. And then for commentary not to mention it, I thought was really weird, but
Yeah, I
agree. Well, especially
You know,
because it seems like this is some sort of long the fact that they're dragging it a little bit makes me think this some sort of long term storytelling device. So then commentary should be pointing it out
Yeah.
because you need to make sure that people are picking up on some of that for whatever story you're trying to tell. But I don't.
Considering they made such a big deal when he came back to the conglomeration as yeah,
Yeah.
yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, I'm in. I'm in. So to not bring that up felt a little weird. And it seemed to be out of the blue. Like, I don't know what the hell was happening that could have deserved that, other than Orange was doing his kick while he was getting his hand crushed. But I I don't
Yeah, I don't know.
know. It it just it was one of those things that really stuck out, took me out of the match a little bit and was like, what is going on?
That's fair.
All right. So then the Collision tribute to Andy Williams recap that just, you know.
That made me r
If it didn't make you feel something, you don't have a soul.
it made me realize I don't want to go back and watch Collision like I was going to. Because I don't want to have those feels right now.
Not even kidding. I was fully intending to watch it.
I had the same exact thought. Yeah. I was too.
I I can't do that right now. I gotta wait.
Yeah. And I think the fact that I hadn't done it yet kind of pointed towards I'm not sure I'm in the place for it. And seeing that again made I agree with you. It made me go, Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure I'm there. Maybe later this week, maybe next week, I don't know. But right now I'm just not sure that that's I will watch it and I will cry, but you know.
Yeah.
I can't do that right now.
Okay, fair enough. Is it is it because you're dehydrated? Yeah, yeah. That'll happen. So then
Mostly, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ciampa versus already in the ring. So can I guess what you liked about it?
Yeah.
Was it already in the ring doing the like when he was handing his gear over and like well, not one wrinkle or whatever and all that, not one crease?
I said hats off to Myles for getting as much TV time as possible in what's going to be a squash match.
Yeah, I I agree with you on that. That entertained me. His gear
For for the
kind of entertained me.
for the fact that this was a s it was a hell of a squash match, by the way. And I think this is how you do squash matches. But it was really smart because this is one of the few guys that put forth any personality before they get the living tar beat out of And so I thought that was fantastic. So I don't know if that was planned. I don't know if someone said, Hey, let's let this kid do something. But hats off to whoever
let him do that or if he did it on his own. I thought it was great. But I also thought the knee that Ciampa gave him looked completely legit. I d Well then Ciampa's knee went into business for himself too because that looked hard.
Well, maybe it was. Maybe the kid did go into business for himself and Ciampa Yeah, Ciampa made him
Yeah, Ciampa sent him a message on that one. I don't know. But
But yeah, that's that's why I like that match. That's the only reason.
That's fair. Yeah, I I think I think you hit the nail on the head of if you're gonna do squash matches, this is the way to do it. But you know how I feel about these. You know that I don't think it's necessary to and I don't think that it builds somebody into a title contender.
And so then
Good thing.
when he calls out Okada for the
Yeah.
international championship, I'm like, he could have just called him out.
And it would have been fine. Having him beat a guy whose name I didn't even catch. Again, I don't you know how I feel about these. I'm not gonna pound it into the ground again, but
But no, you're right. We the the between the the call out and then the attack backstage, which happens coming up later, you don't need this match at all. This match does nothing.
Right. Right. Doing those two things does more. Right. Yeah.
But possibly give Myles a concussion. That's the only thing this may have done.
Yeah. I mean, doing the other things builds the match better because again, in my mind, and in the world that you have built of just professional wrestling in general, that AEW is part of building that world. I don't see how Ciampa beating this guy automatically leads to Kazuchika frickin' Okada at a pay per view
No, it doesn't at all.
in ten days. Like it
It's Okada
Yeah.
and it's for a title, like haven't haven't beat somebody.
Yeah. I do have a qu he he called him out first and then had this squash match, right? Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, I believe so. I think
I I think he called him out and then
Then they went to the match.
I didn't write this
down. What I wrote down under my notes for Ciampa versus Already in the ring was I find it odd that they're putting Ciampa against Okada at All Out. So either he called it out, but they I thought they came back from break with his music. I don't know. It doesn't matter. But yeah, he called it out, then they did the match. Yeah. No.
I think yeah, I think I did. Yeah, I think that's how it went. So you didn't need the match and it was so
short you didn't need it at all. So
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. But yeah, good on the kid for, you know, getting his maximizing his minute there. Hmm.
You know what I say?
That's what I say.
Yes.
Yes. Then we got the what did you say?
New house.
New house. I gotta get rid of Swerve Level. I gotta write down new house.
the Swerve Level's good too.
You know, but new house is way better. All right. So then we got the new house promo. Except no, we didn't, because The Demand jump
Right.
them and put a pretty solid beatdown on them. Which I enjoyed. yeah, I
I love this. I
I liked it a lot.
this was this is how you and this is how you do a beatdown. I've told you how sometimes I feel like AEW's beatdowns are kind of like this is how you do it. You come out of nowhere, you beat the tar out of them, you make a definitive statement. And this did so much for bringing the The Demand up to a level where I think they should have been looked at for a while, even though they had the trios championships. I don't think they were looked at as a very serious threat. But
Those those two guys and even Ricochet, those guys are beasts and they should be looking this dangerous against that team. And having them do that, I thought was great. Having Swerve get a little offense in by himself showed, you know, he's gonna be Swerve, but having them leave and laying, perfect. Just
Yep.
perfect.
Yep, I agree. one other quick shout out. mad respect to the gentleman ringside that had the sign that said Ricochet gives Bald a bad name.
Switch.
I'm glad somebody said it. Damn it. Thank you. Thank
Yeah, that's awesome.
you.
then we got the Jack Perry promo that you mentioned. I I think I agree with what you said in the heat check of if it had just been him doing that promo, I probably would have gone, okay.
But
Uh-huh.
the fact that he specifically calls out Samoa Joe and Samoa Joe on my TV is never a bad thing. I'm okay with it.
Yeah. I mean, I I like the fact that he's explaining why he's doing what he's doing and that he's okay
Yes.
with losing. I that's all fine, but even so, it's like, okay, I hope you have a point. He did,
Yeah.
which is what brought it up to making, you know, making the hot list for me. Because yeah, call out Samoa Joe. That's gonna be a hell of a match, and I'm guessing it's
Yeah.
gonna happen it All Out.
Yeah, I think so too. And so yeah, I look forward to that. And yeah, I think I think it makes a lot of sense for Jack to take on former world champions since that's where he wants to be. I thought that made a lot of sense. But now we got to do it. Cause I don't
Mm-hmm. Yep.
I after he said that, I was like, But wait, which ones has he wrestled lately?
Yeah, I'm not sure.
And I don't I don't know the answer to that. But I mean we need to have him doing that. I I think that makes a lot of sense for him.
I think Jack has needed some direction for a little while now. And I think this is a great one. I think this is a really good idea. So I hope that they do that. I hope we get him and Hangman and him and Darby and him and Mox and him and Omega, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. So
Yeah. Yeah. I wish they would have told us that was his plan, you know, apparently when he started it a couple, you know, three, four weeks ago. But, you know, I'm fine to know now, so that's good.
Yeah. Yeah.
And maybe he just meant champions. Did he say world champions or did he just say champions? Because that opens up a whole bunch of doors.
I thought he said world champions,
but maybe he did just say champ champion.
That that's
what I'm wondering is if I heard world champion, but he actually just said champions. I don't know. We'll see. But it's interesting. And again, Samoa Joe makes me happy.
Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Then it was Lena Kross and Jamie Hayter. Now look, you and I have had a lot to say about this whole beef between Divine Dominion and Brawling Birds. A lot of it has not been good. I take it all back.
yeah.
And do you know why I take it all back, Doug? Because they
Tell me.
got Renee to say, slap the tits off tonight. And that made it all worth it.
Not where I would have said, but you're not wrong. That is still true. I thought you were gonna say
Made the whole feud worth it.
I thought you were gonna say because last week and this week they looked great, but but the Renee thing, I I think
Well, yeah, there was that part of it too. But mostly it's getting Renee to say slap the tits off on TV.
that really pushes it over the top. You're not wrong. Love that. Love that. Yes it is.
Yeah. Yeah. Made the whole feud worth it. No, I agree. I thought
this was a really good match. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought it was gonna be, or than I thought I was going to, I should say. I thought it would be like fine, and I really enjoyed it.
I I thought Lena Kross looked fantastic in the ring, especially in the first half. I thought she was looking like experienced beyond her years. I thought she was doing really great job in there. And it did make okay, this made me This is stupid. You should know because it was me thinking. If your hair is under the ring rope, should that count as a rope break? Because it's you and you're breaking the plane? Because there was a point where.
Jamie Hayter's hair was under the ring, under the rope, but not her head.
That is that's actually kind of a headcanon of a question. Yeah. I mean
I mean, it's a dumb question, but there is some legitimacy to it. If you're if you're gonna have the rule, what the Thank you,
There is, yeah. Yeah. Like that's part of your body and it's under the rope, so
yeah. So that's all.
Hm. Yeah, that's interesting.
There was I do have one question about this match, especially the end. Can you guess what my question's going to be?
No. I mean I probably could, but you just say it.
Where was Alex Windsor?
I actually wasn't gonna say that. But yeah, that that's a great question. Where was she? Yeah.
Are you not watching the match? Are you not looking at a monitor? Because
Yeah.
I was under the impression with almost every backstage vignette I've seen during a match, that's all the other wrestlers do is watch the monitors. So
That's true.
and there was plenty of time to come out and pull Megan Bayne off of the ring.
Yep. And to make sure that your tag team partner doesn't get clocked with a pipe.
But again, you could still make that happen as those two are tussling. The ref is gonna
Yep. that's true. Yeah.
be looking at that, and then clock bang boom.
Yeah, you know, now that you bring that up, that actually would have been better because this was one of those things that I thought was a little bit awkward, the Megan Bayne arguing
Okay.
with with it was Aubrey, wasn't it? It just was like, okay, this is taking too long, you know, and and I feel like any referee worth their salt would have just before like earlier in the argument, just gone, You're gone. Like I'm tossing
Yeah.
you, you shouldn't be here. You're you know.
So I thought that was a little bit awkward timing wise. So yeah, you're right. If it had been Megan Bayne and Alex Windsor brawling, that
Mm-hmm.
would have made more sense. Yeah, you're right. You're right on that.
So that's that's my only nitpick of that match. Otherwise I really liked it.
Yeah, I did too. I did too. there was an Andrade video in there basically teaching you about his history if you don't know it, which is fine. I get it. Yeah.
Yeah, I thought that was really good. I wrote down nice
package Andrade.
That should be a t shirt.
Yeah.
How you know?
'Cause
if there's one thing I know it's what they can make money on with their t shirts.
Yeah.
I thought it was good and I get it. We're continu we're continuing to build Andrade up because they want when he and Ospreay go at it to be huge. And I think it will be. Yeah.
And it will be. Yeah.
Then Okada with Renee. I love Okada. This was great. The smile
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
at the camera and calling him a going Ciampa's a bitch. I love it.
So good.
Yep.
And then Ciampa whoops his ass backstage.
Mm-hmm.
Now, I'm gonna nitpick it slightly. Okay, because I actually really liked this, and I like this a lot better for Ciampa than some of the stuff we've seen him doing recently. But him yelling, when I said I wanted Ciampa versus Okada, I meant I want the psycho killer versus the Rainmaker. I was like, did anybody not think that or get that?
Yeah.
Like, are
do you think that those are different people?
Maybe. I mean he's there's psycho
I don't I just thought
in the psycho killer name, so maybe.
Yeah.
I didn't think that was a great line. And I don't think that it hit the way that somebody was hoping it would hit. So
I mean and it
and it also smacks a little bit too much of him and Jericho cycle
Yeah.
killer versus painmaker. It's like, okay, I get it.
Yeah.
'Cause Jericho's had a bunch of different personalities. We get it. So I understand
Yeah. I I
it kind of continues that thought, but I don't think we needed it.
Yeah. All
he needed to do was lay that beat down on Okada and then look down at him and go, bitch,
and walk away. That's all he needed to do. If if that's
Yeah. Yeah. That's it.
how that had gone, I would have been like, Holy shit, 10 out of 10, no notes. That was great. You know.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
As it was, still pretty good, but you didn't need it.
Yep. Nope.
You didn't need that line. Then we got the Brawling Birds promo, and I agreed with you on this.
Keep them pre taped.
And and I feel bad for saying that because
I do too.
I appreciate their passion. There's just something about it that doesn't land with me. And
Let
me let me run this by you and see if this is what it is. Here's what I wrote in my notes about this promo. You like to say things like balls. Got it. Like I feel like every
That's part of it.
yeah, I feel like every time they talk, it's how much goofy, quote unquote, edgy stuff can we work into this? And I'm like, okay, I got it.
And and I know I just said that getting Renee to say slap the tits off was worth it. And I I mean it. That was genuinely funny.
Yeah.
But see, that's what made that funny. Not them saying it, having Renee read it verbatim. That made that bit.
Yeah.
and I think in this moment, right? you can be those kind of goofy almost stereotypes of English hooligans or whatever. You can do that. There's a place for that. Earlier in the show, as part of the video package, was a good spot for it. But after this, when somebody just took a pipe to the to the gut or whatever.
I feel like this is a moment where you should be going, Okay, that's how you want it. Fine. We'll see you in Chicago. You better bring gauze because I'm gonna make you bleed. You know,
Yeah.
like
So what I wrote, and I don't know how to fix this, but I wrote down they either need a manager or another member who can do their promos with them or for them or keep them more focused. And I but I don't have
Yeah, I think that's it.
a good name I don't have a good name to pull right now. I don't know who that would be. It doesn't make sense for them to have Stokely in their corner. I don't know if it makes sense for them to be the first women to join the Don Callis family, but it might.
Yeah. Yeah.
Otherwise, I don't really know what you do with them to make these promos land better.
Yeah. That's where I go. That's where I start going. I'm not sure that the person that could help them with that is in the company right now. And and
Possibly, yeah.
so I just kinda go, Okay, so who's out there that might be able to help them? And I don't have the answer to that. But I
Right.
just kind of think like, could you get
Like a legend that's out there that was good on the mic to come in and go, Let me help you.
I mean, if you're gonna keep them face, yes. Otherwise,
Yeah.
as I'm sitting here thinking about maybe teaming them up with Britt Baker isn't a terrible call.
Hmm.
That's true. And there's some history there with Britt and Jamie, so
Mm-hmm.
But I can't really think and of of the roster you have, I it's like
Yeah.
there has to be somebody that
Yeah.
can take them under the or just help. I don't and I I just don't I don't know. There's something missing there from those promos. Everything out in and I love the passion, I love the idea, I like
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
them in the ring.
Mm-hmm. It just hasn't landed yet. It just it's not quite hitting the way that again, it's not quite hitting how they want it to hit, you know?
And maybe
it just feels like they're trying too hard. Maybe if they and I don't know if I've ever said this to many people but in wrestling, but maybe take their foot off the gas a little bit for them and that might help those promos. I I don't know.
Yeah.
Well, I I think one of the things that probably several people in AEW need some guidance with is when to be intense and when not to be. And how does that fit within your character? I think this was a time where they needed to be like, okay, got it. That's how it's gonna be. Fine. We'll see you in Chicago. And
you know grit your teeth if I may borrow from an a a different British tag team, you know, like I I I
You know what?
hm.
I have it. I have two I'm gonna throw two names out. You tell me if
Okay.
I'm way off base. And they're in the company. Bryan Danielson, Dustin Rhodes.
I like both of those. I like Danielson a little bit better, but yeah, I I I like both of those. Yeah. But I think they need to be, I think this is probably a larger issue within the company of you have all you still, even here in year seven, have a lot of people that aren't used to being on TV, that are young,
Yeah.
that are still learning. You probably need to be doing promo classes. You probably need to be having
You know, all these legends that you have backstage, whether it's a Dustin or a Bryan Danielson or, you know, Paul Wight or whomever, helping teach these these younger folks that are less experienced with not just TV, but American TV,
Mm-hmm.
here's how you gotta get that promo across. You know, there is a reason that they do that in NXT.
And and maybe they and maybe they are. You know, maybe they are. I I
don't know. It just with these right now, I some and maybe it's just me and you, but it's not landing with with me a hundred percent, which is sad because
Yeah. My
I love I like this team a lot.
Yeah, my my thought is that they aren't doing a lot of that because the schedule doesn't really allow for it because AEW
That's true.
lets them take bookings outside of the company and a lot of them do. You know, and and look, Alex Windsor lives in somewhere in in England with Will Ospreay, so yeah, I don't know.
finally have our our our final match.
Yeah, trio's match, Death Riders versus United Empire. I enjoyed it a lot. I really, I really like that Akira kid. I really
Dude, he's so good. So good.
enjoy him.
Yeah.
I thought it was a good match when when Ospreay and Mox got in the ring together, which they smartly didn't do a ton of, but when they did, I was like, This is a hell of a preview for All Out. Like it's a hell of
Yeah.
a teaser. Those sequences were real good.
I loved how they started and then Mox is like, mm, no.
Yeah. And there was a power bomb that Ospreay hit on Mox. I was like, Jesus, that looked like it hurt, you know? I mean
Yeah.
it all hurts, but that looked like it really hurts.
Yeah, he he put him through the ringer on that one, for sure.
Yeah.
So there was some really good stuff there. Enjoyed the match a lot. Then we got the post match stuff.
Okay, but before we get to that, there's a couple things I just want to are we now just officially Kid is part of the Death Riders and not the dogs?
Because he was in the he was
I don't know. I don't know and I don't think we're gonna get an answer to it.
in the Death Riders promo. He's wearing Death Riders gear. And yeah. So I don't know. I don't know.
But then
after the match would further muddy the waters on that.
That's why I mean I don't know. I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't think we're gonna get an answer to it. I think the answer that we're going to get is yes, he's in both. I'm serious. Cause commentary
Probably yeah. No, you're not wrong. You're not wrong.
even hit on that tonight of no, he's part of both. So that's
Yep. I guess. Yeah.
just what it is.
I did write down because the beating he gave Akira, I think
Mm-hmm.
Mox is mad at Akira because Akira rolled him up during one of his goofy walkaround poses.
Yeah.
Which, if you remember, that made my hot list because Akira
It did. It did.
rolling him up. That was like I immediately went to my list and went hot. That
Yeah.
was it. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I I agree with you. I liked that. so on the post match stuff. Here's I'm gonna get ready to ping pong. Here we go.
I'm in. Let's go.
I liked Andrade saving Akira. And I thought Andrade looked good doing it.
Yes. Yes.
I did not like Mox going unhinged on Akira. I'll explain why.
Okay.
I liked Ospreay destroying everybody with the hidden blade to save Akira.
Yes, yes.
I did not like
My dog farting and it's smelling like bad chicken, which happened during the postmatch shenanigans.
This is where me not having a sense of smell really comes in great.
I was just like, no, why? I liked I liked this a lot. I liked Danny Garcia basically with Ospreay going like, Hey, we're cool. You and me are cool. Like
Yeah.
he if you watch him, he literally put his hands up at one point, like, No, no, no, we're cool. You and me are cool.
Well, yep.
I like that. So now let me go
Yeah, I thought that was good.
back to why I didn't like Mox going unhinged on Akira.
Okay.
It plays into what I was talking about earlier.
You move him backwards into unhinged attempted murder guy. And I understand before people come at me, I understand it's what Excalibur was saying of he's sending a message to Ospreay.
Yep.
I get it.
Yeah, we got that. Yeah.
But here's my issue with it. You have two stories running parallel to each other right now, right? Story A is Ospreay versus Mox for the title and all of their history, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I don't need you to convince me that Jon Moxley is gonna come hard after Will Ospreay. We've established that.
Yeah. He's made that very clear.
Yeah, we are well aware.
And then parallel to that, you have story B, which is this seemingly impending Death Rider Civil War. By
Yes.
having Mox go back to unhinged, I'm going to attempt murder guy, it it effectively, in my mind, deflates the Civil War story. Because that
Absolutely it does. It it throws a nice bucket of cold water on it.
yeah, because that all hinges on him not being that guy.
And it pissing off guys like PAC and Gabe Kidd and whoever else.
Mm-hmm.
So
I you're you're one hundred percent right. And that's that's why I didn't like it that way. Like on on one hand it yes I did. I did like it. I th 'cause it makes sense on one hand of yeah, look dude, I'm gonna show you. I'm pulling the trigger, I'm pulling the trigger, I'm pulling the trigger, and that I get it. But that form of of Moxley, in my opinion, isn't the one they were building towards up until a week ago.
I agree. It w that works if the story is exclusively him and Ospreay. But it isn't exclusively him and Ospreay. You know what I mean? Like it it works if the story is solely Jon Moxley versus Will Ospreay and Mox is playing is getting in his head, right? Like, I'm the guy that got you to this point, but you're not me.
It doesn't matter how much you trained with me. You're not me. Let me show you. Let me show you the killer instinct that I don't, that I still am not sure you have. Right. If that was the story, then it makes all the sense in the world. And I would have been like, great.
Mm-hmm.
But A, that isn't really the story. And B, it isn't the sole story because you've
Correct.
got the the Death Rider Civil War coming. So that's why I didn't like it.
Moving him back into I'm gonna flip off the crowd on my way out guy, which he did tonight.
I don't like if it's just to position him as a heel versus Will Ospreay's face, we didn't need that. I don't care
Nope, we didn't need it.
about the face heel dynamic. Not really.
Nope.
Mm mm. Will took care of that when he told you why he wanted Jon Moxley for the match. He took care of that. We have
Yep. Yep.
we have the lines drawn, the sides are established. We understand why this is happening. The the the him snapping like that does more damage to the other story of will the Death Riders trust him or not?
Mm-hmm.
And it does not much to really advance the story of him and Ospreay. Now, I don't you you probably noticed this as well. It's a 50-50 chance. Well, probably 75% chance it's a work, but Ospreay threw up the X at the end for Akira. I don't know if you saw that. He threw the X.
I actually didn't catch that. That might have been when I
when my eyes were watering 'cause of the dog fart. So
Entirely
possible. But he threw up the X and he's like having people come in because you know, clearly he you know, Akira got choked out like eighteen times.
Yeah, and got dropped on his head like fifteen times, yeah.
Yeah.
So you know, I I don't I'm sure it's a work, or at least I'm hoping it's a work.
It probably is.
But that I think is going to lead into who's gonna be at the side of the ring because now he's got one less guy with him at the ring because they made a point of saying all the Death Riders can be at the ring on this match
Mm-hmm.
and he's gonna have his own fun bunch of monkeys.
Right. And you've got tension with
him and New Newman? Callum Callum Newman? I can never remember his last name.
Newman. Newman?
Yeah. and can you trust Andrade? All that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get all that.
Right. Mm-hmm.
I do. But again, I don't think you needed to have Moxley go unhinged attempted murder guy.
No.
And you still could have done all that. Like, i
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.
even if they had done it of
PAC and Kid are whooping Akira's ass and Mox just doesn't stop
That's a better story for me. And he just looks at Will and Yeah and walks away. That's a better storyline for me. And it makes so much more sense. Or
It just kinda shrugs. Just mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.
you choke him out, the ref says, you know, match is over. You hold the choke for five extra, whatever, you know, and then you let him go.
Yeah. Just hold it for for
a beat longer while you make eye contact with Ospreay.
Absolutely. And you get the same message across. I don't think you need that return because you're right. That is going back to Moxley three, four, five months ago.
Well, that's going I mean, in my mind it was almost going
Maybe long.
all the way back to coming out of what was that, all in two years ago, I think now.
Okay, so I'm not good with calendars and time, but
Well, no, no, no. But but you're you're not wrong because it's
all part and parcel of the issues that I have had with the Death Riders off and on over the entirety of their run, which was I don't mind you doing the things that you're doing if you can tell me why you're doing it.
Mm-hmm. And do consistently, which was also
Yeah.
a problem.
Yeah. And when you go back to twice attempting murder on Bryan Danielson, attempting murder on Orange Cassidy. And they never explained why. And I feel like we're moving back in that direction. And I don't need a bunch of unhinged dudes running around. I've already got to deal with that from Ciampa, you know.
Mm-hmm.
Give me one
guy who at least makes some damn sense.
When you have someone like Gabe Kidd in now, he can fill that role. He can do
Yeah. Right.
that. And now Moxley, it puts him directly in between, who are you, Jon Moxley? Who are you in this? Are you a leader? Are you a teacher? Is this what you want them learning? What are you doing? So
And and
yep. And we're right back to what I said before of what is the elevator pitch on the character of Jon Moxley? And I don't think they can answer it right now. Maybe they can. Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
I think that's a
I think that's a long elevator ride though right now.
Well,
yeah, probably. You need a tall, tall building, but
Yes, sir.
Or just a really slow elevator.
That could be too But I just I don't that's why I didn't love it. And I
Yeah, no, I get that. Yeah.
I think not unlike a couple other things that we talked about tonight, it is an unnecessary wrinkle in what was a pretty straight ahead and pretty compelling and entertaining story. So I didn't love it.
So what what is your match of the night? Because now I'm curious.
So I've actually been thinking about that a lot. I'm really not sure.
I thought for sure it was gonna be the main event.
I did too.
But now that we've discussed it and now that I'm looking
Yeah.
back on it, I honestly think, even though I still have some issues, I think it's Hayter and Kross.
Yeah, I that's that one was real high up for me, like right out of the gate. Like after the match. I like, wow, that might have been match of the night.
I can see a case for the eight-man tag one hundred percent.
I was say eight
man tag would be up there for me. Yeah, I think it I I think I'm with you. I think it's Hayter and Kross.
Here here's why it is for me. I thought it was a cleaner match. I thought it was cleaner story wise. Yes, there was a little hiccup at the end. And I thought they looked really good in that ring. I thought and I think the the the story progressed. So it clicked
Mm-hmm.
all the buttons it needed to click. The action was really, really good. I'm having a hard time
Yeah.
not calling it match tonight now.
No, I I agree. I mean, as I'm looking back over just, you know, the list of what happened tonight, I can't I can't I can't make an argument for I mean, I guess I could maybe for the eight-man tag and and
I almost could for the main event. But no, I'm g I I'm with you. I'm gonna give it for or I'm gonna give it to Jamie Hayter and Lena Kross. I thought like I said, when the match ended, I I immediately was like, Boy, that might have been match of the night right there. So I yeah, I think it
same.
was. Yeah.
That or, and this is me being me, calling things that aren't what they are, that or The Demand beatdown of New House. Which wasn't a match, but really good.
Yeah, I mean Yeah. If if you wanted
to do just like best segment of the night, which would encompass in my mind everything matches, promos, videos, what video packages, et cetera, I think it's the best segment of the night.
I think that was the best segment of the night. Yep.
I I and I'm not I I don't think it's close. I I think it was
No, no, by no means.
really, really good and it did so much for The Demand in particular, but I
think
I think it
Yeah.
really did a lot for where that story is headed. I was like, Yeah, that was good.
Yep. Loved it. Like I said, loved every bit of it. Thought it was great. So yeah. Those
Yep. Yep.
two things. And don't get me wrong. I thought the action in the in the main event was great. I mean,
Yeah. Yeah, I like yeah.
everybody in that match was so damn fast. Everybody.
Yes.
Yeah. Like I said, I love Akira. Everything he did entertained me. The Ospreay mock stuff was really good. Andrade is always good. So I don't,
Yep. my God.
you know, I mean, and and I'm not gonna complain about PAC. And honestly, even Gabe Kidd, who you know I'm not a huge fan of, I he didn't bug me tonight. There was some stuff that's like that was pretty good. So, you know, it wasn't bad, but I think, like you said, the the match that did everything it needed to do and did it pretty well.
was the Jamie Hayter-Lena Kross match.
Mm-hmm.
This one, the main event, the reason I'm not gonna put it in match of the night is because like I said, I think it muddies up a story, really two stories, instead of advancing them. I think it mudding them up and we didn't need
Yep.
to do that.
Exactly. Yep. You can tell we took our philosophy juice before we did this.
Yes. Which I often do. And you know what I pair it with?
But see that Tell me.
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Yeah. Even if I'm not supposed to, I probably will.
Yeah.
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We totally will.
Mm-hmm.
says the guy with ADHD, who can't remember if he took his meds this morning.
Yep, says the guy who hits his head a lot.