[00:00:00] Speaker: This is the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer interviews, leadership, and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional . Now here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:28] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach and we are here to build a vibrant culture. And I have another amazing, epic, vibrant guest with me. His name is Ryan Englin. Did I get that right?
[00:00:43] Ryan Englin: You did.
[00:00:44] Nicole: Oh my gosh, good for me. Look at that. All of that schooling paid off. Okay, so let me tell you about Ryan. Ryan is a passionate advocate for small to medium sized businesses in blue collar industries driven by a childhood spent witnessing his father's tireless work as an owner operator. With a decade of experience in corporate America and as CEO of Core Matters, Ryan empowers business leaders to build amazingly productive companies by focusing on hiring and retaining, retaining. That's how they talk in Tennessee. I bet, Ryan. No.
[00:01:17] Ryan Englin: I don't, but yes, some do.
[00:01:20] Nicole: Retaining the right people. Through his engaging speaking engagements, workshops, and webinars, Ryan shares his unique perspective on process development and recruitment as a marketing activity. And just before this started, we were offline, I'm like, it's all sales and marketing. He's like, yeah, yeah. So offering actionable tips and strategies to revolutionize any business, Ryan's dynamic approach ignites transformation. That sounds vibrant, igniting transformation, that's good. Leaving audiences energized, motivated, and equipped to conquer the challenges of today and tomorrow. Please welcome to the show, Ryan. Look, I have his book right here, everybody. It's awesome!
[00:01:59] Ryan Englin: Yay! Thank you. Thank you so much.
[00:02:01] Nicole: I'm so glad you're here! And so the name of the book, _Hire Better People Faster_. Does that sound like a good strategy? I'm gonna say yes. All right. So I told you what we do is we look inside your book because I like to do little book reports. I think people need to understand, you know, what these books say so they'll go out and buy it.
[00:02:20] And so, here's the questions that he challenges everybody with. Does your business energize you? Do you have a team that you genuinely enjoy working with? Imagine that. One that shares your vision. Do the people on your team inspire you? Is your business hitting the goals? Do you feel it is easy to find good help? And do you have the confidence to hold people accountable because you know you can replace them if you have to? Hold on, let me repeat that last one. Do you have the confidence to hold people accountable because you know you can replace them if you have to?! Oh, Ryan, I'm so glad you're here.
[00:02:55] Ryan Englin: Thank you.
[00:02:56] Nicole: Yeah, so, tell me how'd you get it, how did, how did you find your way into the hiring business? I mean, I heard about dad, what did dad do? Talk about dad a hot second.
[00:03:04] Ryan Englin: Yeah, my dad was an owner operator and he was in manufacturing. So I learned all the skilled trades and that's the one thing I learned about manufacturing. You got to know electrical, you got to know plumbing, you got to know mechanical, you do all that stuff. And I grew up at the shop. I grew up down there.
[00:03:20] And you know, if I was hanging out with dad after school or on the weekends, we were down there. I tell people to this day, if I walk into a shop with hydraulics, just the smell of the oil and everything just, Oh, it brings me back to childhood. But I watched my dad do that and I watched him labor and he had this dream of doing more and being more and wanting more. And every time he'd get close, there'd be a setback, a key person would leave, something. And I grew up thinking that my dad's problem was the problem of most businesses, is that we don't have enough new customers coming in, right? That's the problem. There's not enough revenue. 'Cause I've heard cash is king and solves a lot of problems. Right? And so I watched him do this. And as I got older, I was like, there's no way I'm going into dad's business. Cause it's, I see what it's done to him. And, uh,
[00:04:06] Nicole: That's right worn out. Yeah. Poor guy.
[00:04:07] Ryan Englin: So I went to college and I got a degree and then I joined corporate America thinking that's going to be better. It wasn't better. I wasn't a corporate guy. But one thing I did learn in corporate was the value of process. And so I became obsessed with processes. How does one thing go to the next thing, go to the next thing? And how do you make sure that when that's solid, you can hire anybody to run it? Especially if you train them. And so I did so much interviewing, so much of building teams and all of that. I remember there was a period of time where we were hiring a hundred people a month and I was just nonstop interviews. Like it was crazy. I'd do 10, 15 interviews a day. It was exhausting, but
[00:04:50] Nicole: How can you remember who you talked to?
[00:04:53] Ryan Englin: Yeah, they had processes, right?
[00:04:55] Nicole: One big fat interview!
[00:04:57] Ryan Englin: Yeah, it was crazy how fast we were interviewing people. We'd literally have lines of 40 people waiting for their interview just to come in. It was crazy. And, uh,
[00:05:05] Nicole: How wonderful you had 40 lined up.
[00:05:07] Ryan Englin: That's what they did. I mean, that's corporate America, right? And so I learned a lot about people. I learned a lot about psychology and interviewing and I developed an interview process while I was there that corporate really didn't like, which is when I found out corporate wasn't that great. But what I did was I really started interviewing the person, not the mask they were hiding behind. Right? So I started going off script and started having conversations that weren't the same bullet questions that everybody's asked. Fast forward a little while. I started my own company, wanted to help people like my dad. A couple of years in, I couldn't keep customers. And what it turned out was they didn't have a revenue or lead gen problem. They had a people problem. They had empty trucks. They had machines that weren't running. They had a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't happening inside their business. And so I said, well, you know what? I think I can solve that problem. So I had a client, gave me a shot. Three weeks later, they were on an ATS. They had more applicants than they knew what to do with. They had more people they were hiring than they knew what to do with. And I was like, that was easy. This is just marketing stuff. It's just a different way of doing it. So fast forward 10 years, I created the corporate hiring system, wrote the book. And you know, since we're talking to HR people, I can say this.
[00:06:19] Nicole: Say it.
[00:06:20] Ryan Englin: It's the employee experience. It's a deep dive into the employee experience, the employee life cycle. That's what we do. And that's what the book is all about. I just wrote it for entrepreneurs that don't use those words. They don't think employee experience, they think customer experience. And they're really good at that. How do we create an amazing experience to the customer? But what I found out real early on, especially in service businesses, is that we can have the best customer experience in the world, but if we don't have engaged, happy employees, because they have a great employee experience, delivering, we're not gonna have a good customer experience. So let's focus on the employee experience. They'll deliver a great customer experience. Everybody wins.
[00:07:00] Nicole: Yeah, don't miss that. Don't miss that everybody. Say that again. The employee experience does what? Hold on, everybody. Listen.
[00:07:07] Ryan Englin: Oh, when you have an amazing employee experience, your employees are happy. They're engaged. They're productive. They care about your customers. And they deliver an incredible customer experience.
[00:07:17] Nicole: Yeah, yeah, that's so good, right? So if we just learn that, we're done. Mic drop. Okay. No,
[00:07:24] Ryan Englin: Yeah, that's it.
[00:07:25] Nicole: We'll keep going. Wait, no, let's dive into, okay, let's dive into your Core Fit Hiring System because I think these seven steps will help people kind of see what you're trying to do here. And then, of course, we want everybody to go out and get the _Hire Better People Faster_ book that is available, I'm sure, on all the Amazons and the things. Okay. All right. You say in here, you make this big declaration. Ryan says, hiring doesn't have to be hard. There's a revolutionary, evolutionary idea.
[00:07:57] Ryan Englin: You know, I know, I just talked to somebody yesterday that a small business, 12 employees and he goes, I only have two people that have been here longer than a year: my wife and my daughter,
[00:08:10] Nicole: And they're all stuck together because we gotta eat.
[00:08:13] Ryan Englin: You're stuck. He goes, everybody else leaves. He goes, I'm not the problem. I'm not the problem. It's everybody else. They're lazy. They're entitled. No one wants to work. They all want to work from home and get paid a lot of money to do nothing. That's his mindset.
[00:08:27] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:08:28] Ryan Englin: And so what happens when someone does show up-- I've seen this so many times. When someone does show up, guess what? He projects that mindset on that person.
[00:08:36] Nicole: Right. He's looking for everything that's wrong. You know?
[00:08:39] Ryan Englin: Everything that's wrong. And then he onboards them and says, I shouldn't have to spend time onboarding you. You should just be able to figure it out. Oh, you can't figure it out because you're lazy and entitled and everything. And
[00:08:49] Nicole: And not too bright.
[00:08:50] Ryan Englin: So hiring is hard because we make it hard.
[00:08:53] Nicole: I agree.
[00:08:54] Ryan Englin: If you're in the HR space... we, we were joking earlier. I'm like, HR people and I don't always get along. Because I'm like, oh, it's really simple, we solve it this way. And they're like, yeah, leadership will never let that happen. I'm stuck. And so, you know, a good friend of mine, she talks about how you've gotta be able to sell and speak in leadership's language to get them to do what HR knows we need them to do.
[00:09:18] Nicole: That's right.
[00:09:19] Ryan Englin: But I can't tell you how many HR leaders I've talked to have said, you know what? It's kind of toxic here, but I have no control over that, Or they don't onboard people well, but nobody wants to listen to me cause I'm just HR. And that was a lesson I learned when I wanted to go into HR right after college is, HR doesn't get a lot of respect. They're like the necessary evil.
[00:09:39] Nicole: Yeah, well, you know, and I run in these circles of the gals and guys who show up for our Society for Human Resource Management meetings that want to learn, want to look up everything they can. I think that they're ready to hear what you've got to offer because they're wanting something fresh, something new that they can do. And if you can share with them kind of the why the CEO or the whoever would want to say yes, I think. I think they're ready, willing and able to try.
[00:10:06] Ryan Englin: Well, what I've learned is that leadership wants answers and most of the time the people that aren't on the leadership team struggle to say, well, hey, I'm just going to hold up this mirror. Look in the mirror. This might be our problem.
[00:10:22] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:10:23] Ryan Englin: I can't tell you how many times I've met CEOs that are like, Oh, everybody's lazy and tired. Nobody wants to, they have this mindset, just this narrative that's gone over and over and over again that nobody wants to work. And what I found is they're right, if you add a couple of words to that, nobody wants to work for you.
[00:10:44] And we have to own this.
[00:10:45] Nicole: And that's true too, isn't it? Yes.
[00:10:47] Ryan Englin: We have to own this because I have a bunch of clients that don't struggle with this. They used to, and they've made some adjustments and they don't anymore. And they're working on becoming that employer of choice. People that stick with the program that's in that book, they'll call me in two or three years from now and they'll say it happened. I have no open jobs and I got more people that want to work here than I know what to do with.
[00:11:11] Nicole: Yeah. Isn't that fantastic? And really what you're doing when you hire great people with a great leader, with a great mindset is you're building a vibrant culture. That's exactly what you're doing. It's lit up and it's a magnet
[00:11:22] Ryan Englin: It's so true
[00:11:23] Nicole: and all the people flock to the light. You're like, I want to be part of something great. Exactly. Yeah. So good. All right. Well, you've got this thing called your core fit, right? So what, you said, what's at the core? At the core is the core. Talk about the
[00:11:39] Ryan Englin: It's so interesting. It's so interesting. Like, you know, I, when I figured out what I wanted to call this and name the company, everything, I was like, You know what? It's all about that connection that we make with people. If we have a solid, strong connection, if they're connected to us before the interview, after the interview, during onboarding. If we're connected as human beings and we create... I love what Simon Sinek says, it's that belonging, that's what people want. They want to feel like they belong. If we create that, then magic happens. And I think the interesting thing about culture is that if you had 10 people in a room and you ask 10 people to define culture, you'd have 27 different definitions of culture, wouldn't you?
[00:12:21] Nicole: Don't you know? Oh, welcome to my world.
[00:12:24] Ryan Englin: And I was like, so culture is this big nebulous thing that people don't really understand. But when you really dial it down, it's a heart thing.
[00:12:32] Nicole: Oh, I agree.
[00:12:33] Ryan Englin: And that's, and that's our core. And the reason that we have core values is because they're values that don't live here. They live here.
[00:12:41] Nicole: That's right. We eat them. We live them. We breathe them. They're authentic. They're real. They're not just words.
[00:12:45] Ryan Englin: They're us. Yeah. And I tell people all the time. To me, there's a whole bunch of different types of cultures out there and values out there and everything else. And just because I don't fit them doesn't mean it's bad because there's someone out there that'll fit them.
[00:13:00] Nicole: That's right, and that's called job fit, right? And that's, you know, the right person on the bus, all these things we talk about, right?
[00:13:07] Ryan Englin: Yeah. I use the example, you know, there's these underwater thermal vents, 700 degrees water coming out of them from the bottom of the ocean, heated up by lava. Like, it's 700 degrees water. Well, guess what? They found life there. They found these little microorganisms that live and thrive in 600 degree water. So you might have a toxic culture or been told you're toxic or... we had a client, they were so proud of how passive aggressive they were. They just, it was a badge of honor to be passive aggressive. You know what? They found people that thrived in a passive aggressive environment. I didn't, but,
[00:13:42] Nicole: No, I don't think I could work there.
[00:13:44] Ryan Englin: So, um, that's why I love working with the trades.
[00:13:47] Nicole: What do they do, those people?
[00:13:49] Ryan Englin: Yeah, well, here's the irony in that whole story. They're now bankrupt.
[00:13:52] Nicole: Okay, there we go
[00:13:53] Ryan Englin: The CEO ran it into the ground. So, but I think, when we look at the core, we look at our heart and we look for people who fit what we believe and what we feel so strongly about, things get so much easier. And so we call it core values. They're core. They're central to who we are. They're an element of culture, our communications, an element of culture, all that thing lives with inside core in our model, values, vision, purpose, core story, which is how we communicate those things all lives in core. And if you look at the model, I know nobody can see it right now, but it looks like a gear.
[00:14:27] Nicole: Here it is, people.
[00:14:29] Ryan Englin: Oh, yeah. If you zoom in on the edges, it looks like teeth, right? It's a gear because your core permeates into everything that makes the employee experience. Everything that makes that life cycle. And so when we understand that, that's the place we start. Let's get really clear on who we are, how we behave, where we're going, why we do what we do and make sure that we're getting the right people on the bus. If we do that, the whole rest of the model-- way easier.
[00:14:59] Nicole: Right. You said, well, it sets the little wheel in motion, right?
[00:15:03] Ryan Englin: It does, but I see it happen way too often. We bring in a consultant, they put up our core values on a wall. They print big banners. They make little coffee mugs, have our core values, and we say, we're done. And then nothing happens.
[00:15:17] Nicole: No, we gotta tell stories. We gotta call out the behaviors. We gotta do all the things.
[00:15:22] Ryan Englin: There's so much. Your listeners know, like they know this it doesn't happen enough. And that intentionality is so important, which is why we built the rest of the system to say, let's take that stuff and now let's become intentional about it, each of those different areas.
[00:15:36] Nicole: Yeah. I want to tell you a couple of leaders that I work with. And then I want to hear a couple of yours about like original core values, because one of the things I think is so important is that like the core values are authentic. So I have this leader, Navoe, and he is up in Detroit, Michigan. He's got this company called Aspire Integrated, and they like, put fancy blinds in your windows and you can go disco ball and the ceiling opens up and the whatever. I mean, they do all these things, right? It's really cool. But one of his core values is get, and then it says, S H ! * ? T done. And that is like one of his core values. And if you talk to him, that's real. He's like, come on, let's go. We got to make it happen. We have very fancy clients who want fancy things done very quick. And so let's go. And it's just this fun energy, right? And then I have a client out in Colorado and his name is Neil and he has a company that makes nutraceuticals and it's called Mineral Life or Zemvelo is his business to consumer. And one of his his core values is yes and underlined. Exclamation point. So, yeah. And so his thing is please don't tell me no. Just say yes, and I can do it today, or I can do it tomorrow, and I need your help, and I need a resource. But he's like, just say yes already. You know? So I think these guys, their personalities come out in the core values, and people are drawn to it, like you're saying.
[00:17:04] Ryan Englin: Yeah. Yeah. We've got a reinforcing steel contractor- rebar- down in Florida. And I'll never forget when we talked to them about their core values... for some reason, just like you pointed out, you've got two different companies and there's that one that stands out that like that just makes it, that's the good story. We were talking and I go, you know what, Jack, it just sounds like no one gives a damn. And he's like, and he just went on his little soapbox and I'm like, I think give a damn might be a core value of yours.
[00:17:33] Nicole: And so, I agree with that. You should care. But, you should care and give a damn. I mean, the give a damn has a little punch. I like it.
[00:17:41] Ryan Englin: Yeah. And so it's on hard hat stickers. It's on vehicle wraps. It's on-- and they have a video of like 90 guys at a job site screaming, give a damn. It's like a six second clip.
[00:17:51] Nicole: Oh, I love it!
[00:17:51] Ryan Englin: They've just all embraced it. It is so cool.
[00:17:54] Nicole: That's so fun.
[00:17:54] Ryan Englin: So great. And, uh, We've got a painter that we worked with a couple of years ago, small, like 35 employees. And he's just like, you know what? These people don't understand the impact. He's just talking through this, they don't understand the impact when they don't show up on time or they don't clean up the job site. He goes, we're just, we're all in this together. He's a big military guy. Like he's got flags and firearms behind him and everything else. And I was like, I was like, when are these people going to just understand that you guys are all in this foxhole together? And he's like, yeah, we share the foxhole. And that's their core value now is, Share the Foxhole. Like you got to understand that, if you want to leave your garbage right here, your guy, your buddy standing right next to you, your teammate is dealing with that.
[00:18:37] Nicole: That's exactly right.
[00:18:38] Ryan Englin: And so, those are some of the ones that I really liked. There was another one we had, it was No Micros.
[00:18:43] Nicole: Mmm, talk.
[00:18:44] Ryan Englin: We do not micromanage around here.
[00:18:47] Nicole: No.
[00:18:48] Ryan Englin: And it's those double edged swords. Have you noticed that like some core values are a double edged sword, so they don't micro, but they also struggle with accountability now, you know, because they don't want to be micro. It's like a double edged sword, but they're fun. And I think that the people-- you know they're right when you just can't stop talking about them, you know, they're the right one.
[00:19:09] Nicole: That's exactly right. All right. So fun. And you give little directions in here about how to get your core values together and so that's in there. And so I just, real quick, core story. You know, tell me a little bit about, tease that out just real quick for us. Core story. Yeah.
[00:19:26] Ryan Englin: Yeah. So, you know, a lot of times companies, they'll put the values on a banner, they'll write their vision statement and put it on their background of their desktop, and they'll do these things. But what I found is that it's human nature to root things in story. It's the oldest form of communication. And the problem that we have too often is like, Oh, here's one of our values and here's what it means. And that's it. But then my question is, can you give me a story of how that shows up? And they're like, Oh, I can't really think of a Give a Damn story. Well, then it's probably not the right value for you. So what we do with the core story is we really start digging deep and saying, okay, here's your purpose. Like why you do what you do. I like to say, why do you get out of bed on days you don't want to get out of bed? Right? That's your purpose. And then we look at your behaviors and everything else. And we tie it together into a story that really defines the leadership team and their organization. Some people call it something like a core values speech. You might've heard that term before. But instead of ours being a speech, it's connecting people through story. That's more important than just talking to them because they're so used to being talked to by leadership.
[00:20:37] Nicole: mm hmm,
[00:20:38] Ryan Englin: So we want to tie their purpose, visions, and values into a story that makes sense. And here's the big reason why. When your frontline employees, who most of the time we don't pour enough into, go home at the end of the day, and they're having a beer with their brother, and their brother's like, so tell me about the company you work for. Eh, it's okay. Eh, they did some big town hall party today or something. You know, they don't have anything to say. But if you can root them in story back to the organization, they're like, let me tell you a quick story about the company. And are they going to get all the values right and all the purpose? No. But they're going to get close enough where that brother is going to go, tell me more. I want to know more. And that's the
[00:21:19] Nicole: And the brother's qualified for the open position or whatever.
[00:21:24] Ryan Englin: You know, I talk about employee referral programs in my book and why they don't work because most don't work as well as they should. And it's because we don't equip our people.
[00:21:32] Nicole: No, they don't know how to refer. Right.
[00:21:34] Ryan Englin: Yeah, they don't know. So, you know what you do, you build a story, you share the story everywhere all the time, and then when they walk out and they get 30 percent of the story right, it's probably enough to get someone interested.
[00:21:47] Nicole: Yeah, and what I love about what you're saying is like if they're in enough meetings over enough years, they'll get the story down pat. In fact, they might even tell it a little bit better than you do. And, and then, and you'll have that one employee that brings everybody to you. Because I've had that in my own career where I had, Phoebe. Phoebe loved working for Nicole and so she brought all sorts of peeps my way, you know what I mean? She was a pro.
[00:22:16] Ryan Englin: Yeah. I love it. One of the things that we encourage our clients to do because they do, they forget about it, right? That's the biggest problem. They forget to be intentional and remind people. We set a process up that says if you're in a meeting with more than two people-- which, we do lots of zoom meetings these days-- more than two people, the first five minutes instead of the, Hey, what'd you do this weekend, is we're going to start, we're going to pick one of our values and we're all going to tell a story about it.
[00:22:41] Nicole: I love that.
[00:22:42] Ryan Englin: And every time we're in a meeting with more than two people, we're going to pick one value, whoever facilitated the meeting, they'll bring it up and then everybody has to tell a story.
[00:22:51] Nicole: So good
[00:22:52] Ryan Englin: And over time, it's not going to be long before people start remembering your values.
[00:22:56] Nicole: Yeah. I worked with the town of Mooresville, North Carolina and I worked with the Public Works Department and they were having trouble recruiting people for the Sanitation Department. So, we went and talked to all the people who had worked in the sanitation department for five years or longer. Why do you work in the sanitation department? And we had these gentlemen named George and Barry and they were like Mutt and Jeff, you know, and they were in a truck and they had been picking up trash all over Mooresville, North Carolina for I don't know however many years. And we videotaped them. And people don't know this, but like on your Indeed ad, on your employee website, you can put a video for people to watch, you know? And so these two dudes are on there talking about, Well, we do it because we love people. They were telling me all these stories. Well, it turns out that Barry is a preacher. And so he's a great storyteller. I mean, you can't make this stuff up, right? And so, he's like, we used to have this woman, I'd probably get fired for telling you this, but we would open her gate and bring her trash can out, and we would empty it, and then we would open her gate back up and put her trash can back in, but the woman couldn't get to the corner with a trash can.
[00:24:09] Ryan Englin: Hmm.
[00:24:10] Nicole: And he did it for however many years. Customer service at its ultimate. But, he's worried about getting fired because you're not supposed to enter the property. You know? So anyway, I just, I adore what you're saying about this core story. I think everybody needs to do this. Genius.
[00:24:26] Ryan Englin: You know, and the sanitation guys, I mean, you got to have a servant's heart to do that job. You just have to.
[00:24:31] Nicole: Oh, are you kidding me?
[00:24:33] Ryan Englin: And it's it's incredible. That's where you've got to go to get the stories, is that frontline.
[00:24:38] Nicole: I agree.
[00:24:39] Ryan Englin: You probably got that from my book, but most of the work we do is the frontline, because they get a bad rap. There's recruiters and there's companies out there that are like, Oh, executives, we'll help you hire them because there's money there. But your $18 an hour entry level person?
[00:24:52] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:24:54] Ryan Englin: I'm like, no, that's the person we pour into. 'Cause guess what? It's their shoulders you're standing on to build your business.
[00:24:59] Nicole: Oh, 100%.
[00:25:01] Ryan Englin: And so that, that's a big thing, but you mentioned something that I do want listeners, the HR team out there to hear. If you're struggling with recruiting, go to your leadership team and say, Hey, we've got a bunch of customer testimonials... Would you mind if we shared some employee testimonials?
[00:25:16] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
[00:25:18] Ryan Englin: 'Cause nobody ever thinks that. I've been in rooms of hundreds of people and they're like, Oh yeah, we got great customer testimonies. How many employee testimonies you have? Never thought about that before.
[00:25:26] Nicole: Right, why have these people been here 32 years? And that is out there.
[00:25:30] Ryan Englin: Yeah. So don't assume that they're not there because leadership won't do it. What I found is leadership often hasn't thought about it.
[00:25:37] Nicole: That's exactly right. They've got other things that they're cooking. That's right.
[00:25:41] Ryan Englin: They're not thinking about it. And you go to them and they're like, heck yeah, let's do it. Can I do one? Right? Like they're getting excited.
[00:25:46] Nicole: Right, right, right. And what do you need? You need an iPhone. That's it. That's all
[00:25:50] Ryan Englin: Oh yeah. Do not, do not overly produce them. 60 seconds. Tell me why you like working here. Why do you stay? And then ask your boss, too, say, Hey, do you mind if I do some stay interviews? I'll even set a quota. And then you make your stay interviews your employee testimonials, you're solid! Two birds with one stone.
[00:26:08] Nicole: Oh, I love it. Yeah. Okay. Don't miss that tip. Did you get that? Stay interviews, equal sign, testimonials, two birds, one stone. Love it. Okay. All right. So we got the core. All right. And so you got to get the book. Don't forget everybody. Look at Hire _Better People Faster_. That's pretty straightforward.
[00:26:26] Okay, so the first thing on here is you've got three things around the outside of your model. One is attract, the next one is hire, and then retain. But we want to attract, and so how do we find people? You have in here the core fit profile and a 360 marketing plan. So give us little highlights on that one.
[00:26:45] Ryan Englin: So here's, if you haven't seen it yet on the front of the book, there's some fishes. Right? Some fish. And there's a little now hiring hook. And I didn't carry the fishing analogy too much throughout the book, although I did mention it for a second. But if you think about this, if you wanted to go fishing... have you ever been fishing?
[00:27:04] Nicole: All the time.
[00:27:06] Ryan Englin: I love fishing. What's the first decision when you're going to go fishing? Like you've already decided you're gonna go fishing. What's the first decision you make? And by making that decision, every other decision is made for you, or it's just easier.
[00:27:17] Nicole: Where I'm gonna go fishing? Which pond, which stream?
[00:27:20] Ryan Englin: You would think,
[00:27:21] Nicole: Okay.
[00:27:22] Ryan Englin: What do you want to catch?
[00:27:23] Nicole: Oh, I
[00:27:25] Ryan Englin: See, when I
[00:27:25] Nicole: I
[00:27:26] Ryan Englin: people are like, Oh
[00:27:27] Nicole: well, I'm married to the hunter fisherman extraordinaire, so I'm along for the ride. I'm,
[00:27:32] Ryan Englin: you, may not care.
[00:27:33] Nicole: let's be honest. The first thing I say is, what book will I take with me?
[00:27:37] Ryan Englin: Yeah. I had one guy say how many beers do I need to pack? Like
[00:27:42] Nicole: Okay, well that, I, maybe...
[00:27:44] Ryan Englin: but once you know the fish you want to catch, that tells you your bait, your gear, your location, time of day, season. Tells you almost everything, right? Do you need a boat or not? But we often don't think that way. What we think is, if we carry that analogy over to recruiting, what we think is, Oh, we just need to fill a position. You know, we need an accountant. Well, that's not the fish you want to catch
[00:28:06] Nicole: Mm hmm. What kind of accountant do you want? Right.
[00:28:09] Ryan Englin: Yeah, let's talk about someone that aligns to our core. Let's talk about someone who has a certain skill set or a certain mindset or behaviors. Most people will agree with me that it's easier to teach skills-- how to do the job-- than it is to teach culture fit.
[00:28:25] Nicole: Amen.
[00:28:27] Ryan Englin: But we never take the time to say, let's talk about the right person. And that's what find is all about. When we talk about attract, finding people, we're not looking for an individual. We're looking for the right fishing pond
[00:28:39] Nicole: Mm hmm.
[00:28:40] Ryan Englin: Because once we know the type of person we want on our team, we're like, well, where do they hang out?
[00:28:45] Nicole: Right.
[00:28:45] Ryan Englin: Where do they spend their time? And here, this is a newsflash, probably, for a lot of people: most qualified individuals that are a good culture fit and are not toxic and have a good, strong work ethic are not on the job boards.
[00:29:01] Nicole: No, no, they're
[00:29:03] Ryan Englin: They're not on the job boards, but what do we do as recruiters? Well, we don't know who we want to get, so let's just go to indeed. Well, who's on indeed? The unemployed and the unemployable. And so when we get really clear on who it is that we want, our employee referral programs become more effective, our passive recruiting, our grassroots recruiting, our community involvement, all that stuff becomes so much more clear because now we say, this is who we want. This is where they hang out and we can go recruit them there.
[00:29:32] Nicole: So good.
[00:29:33] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference, or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results, your organization will get lit from within email her at Nicole at vibrant culture. com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx talk at vibrant culture. com.
[00:29:59] Nicole: Okay. So we've got all that figured out and you're gonna get the book and the next thing is we're gonna automate. And I think this is the part where --one of the big things in the SHRM world right now, Ryan, is like it's called Department of One. That's what we're calling it because there's like one guy or gal and they do everything soup to nuts, right? So if you can, like there are whole groups of people that meet, I'm a department of one and how are you surviving and how are you surviving? And so, if you can automate something for these fine folks, tell us how to do that. Tease that apart.
[00:30:35] Ryan Englin: Yeah. And just to be clear, automate does not mean a machine does it. If you look at, if you read through the book, automate means it gets done without you doing it. Doesn't mean it's a machine, right? So you can automate part of the screening process by having an automatic email go out to the candidate and say, Hey, here's the next step that I need you to take in order to get to the next step. I don't have to do anything. It can be a, it can be a pre hire assessment. It could be them responding to an updated questionnaire. It could be something where you just automatically create, you create an email that goes out that says, Hey, Tell me your favorite thing about your last job. Well, I can tell you that probably 60 percent won't even reply to you.
[00:31:24] Nicole: Right. And then
[00:31:25] Ryan Englin: So you just took your pipeline of 700 down to like 300 by sending one email. But for some reason, and this is where I struggle with recruiters sometimes. I've run into a lot of recruiters that have this belief that number of contacts, or busy work, as I like to call it, equals productivity. And so if they let the ATS screen or they let knockout questions do their job, or they automate getting to the next step, they often feel like they're losing and they're not winning in that sense. And so they resist that automation because they're like, no, I can do 6,000 candidates a month. I'm going to do all 6,000. I'm like, but wouldn't you rather do like 60 and they're all good ones?
[00:32:10] Nicole: Right.
[00:32:11] Ryan Englin: Let the system do its job. Define really great knockout questions. Let the ATS automatically reject people. And I know some of your people won't have a say in this, but if you're on an ATS that will not auto reject people, go get a different ATS. Because I know they're out there. They will not auto reject people because they have this belief that everybody should look at it. No, there are some people that you don't need to spend your time with and not to make fun of them, but the reality is not everybody's going to get the job. We want the best of the best to rise to the top. Let's spend our time with them.
[00:32:43] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:32:44] Ryan Englin: So that's a big part of automation. And then the other thing that we talk about in automation is the employee referral programs. Spend time training your people how to recruit for you. If you're an organization of 500 and you feel like you're a department of one, there are 500 recruiters on your team.
[00:33:00] Nicole: Isn't that lovely?
[00:33:01] Ryan Englin: You just got to teach them to recruit. Spend time doing that. It'll change your world.
[00:33:06] Nicole: So good. Yeah. All right, interview, I think this is a big thing, right? Here's the thing. I don't think people are taught how to interview. I think it's an art form. It's also got a little science in it. And you know, I was so lucky, one of the first companies I ever worked for corporate America, they had this program called success by selection. It blew my mind when I went through that class. I was like, Oh, that's how you interview people. Oh, I'm not supposed to talk a lot? What?
[00:33:37] Ryan Englin: 30%. That's the max.
[00:33:39] Nicole: I was like, Oh, I'm a good talker. I didn't know I was supposed to stop.
[00:33:43] Ryan Englin: Most HR people are. They're good talkers. Oh, yeah. So I'm a little different when it comes to the interview. So I'm a big fan of the structured interview in the sense that everybody goes through the same culture assessment, culture interview process. So our interview is broken up into four sections: the prequalification, usually it's a phone screen, a pre-hire assessment, something like that, but just let's make sure we've moving forward.
[00:34:05] Nicole: That's right. Don't invite them in without talking to them on the phone. I don't even understand that.
[00:34:09] Ryan Englin: Well, sometimes if you only get two or three candidates, like you just want them in, you don't even talk to them, you do face to face.
[00:34:15] Then we do culture fit assessment. The culture fit interview, which a lot of people think is backwards, because they want to assess them for position fit. Can they do the job? And here's what I've learned. If we find someone that's a culture fit, and they happen to apply for the wrong job, because they don't have the skills or experience, we can take a step back and say, Hey, you're not a fit here, but you're a fit for us. Let's figure out another place that you might fit in the company. Whereas if you do it the other way and you do position fit, Oh, you weren't fit for that accounting role. You just move on. They could have been the best culture fit that could have learned it. So we do culture fit first, then we do position fits. And then finally, the last part is we do our, what we call the pullback offer. Uh, I'm going to get some slack for this, but basically what it is, is I bring you in for an offer, right? And I say, Hey, before we get to that, kind of pull it back a little bit. Before we look at this together, let's talk about some expectations. Let's set some really good expectations with each other. You know, we're big on being on time and you were two minutes late to the last interview. Let's talk about how that might impact your career here. Is that going to be a problem? And I believe if we're going to fight with someone, let's do it up front. Let's not turn an eye on these yellow flags, right? Because if it's a red flag, you disqualify them. But these yellow flags, these things that like, you know, if you get enough of them, you want to get rid of the person. And the way I described the pullback offer is I talk about this. So when I got married we've been married almost 20 years now. I remember that first few months was rough. I learned things like, did you know there's a right way to fold a towel?
[00:35:54] Nicole: Yes.
[00:35:55] Ryan Englin: No, I didn't
[00:35:56] Nicole: I instructed David Greer on this early on as well. You boys are lucky. What lucky boys you are.
[00:36:01] Ryan Englin: I learned, um, you know, there's a right way to load the dishwasher and do dishes.
[00:36:06] Nicole: Oh my
[00:36:06] Ryan Englin: Did you know the hamper--
[00:36:07] Nicole: What's bride's name? What's her name?
[00:36:10] Ryan Englin: Yeah, my wife, her name's Elisha. She's awesome.
[00:36:12] Nicole: I love her. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
[00:36:15] Ryan Englin: Did you know that the hamper is, it's not just like a recommendation, like clothes actually have to go in?
[00:36:20] Nicole: That's true too.
[00:36:21] Ryan Englin: The shoes have to go in a certain place. Did you know there's a right way to squeeze the toothpaste?
[00:36:25] Nicole: Yes. From the bottom.
[00:36:27] Ryan Englin: And toilet paper, oh, it goes, there's a certain way,
[00:36:30] Nicole: Yes.
[00:36:31] Ryan Englin: But see, no one ever told me this stuff. So we learn it really hard during the honeymoon phase. And could you imagine if we pulled up to the house and before we got in, so not romantic, I pull out a checklist. I'm like, all right, honey, towels. How do we fold them? All right. I got it, your way. Cause I don't care. Toilet paper. Got it. It goes over the top, right? Like toothpaste. Yeah. We squeeze from the bottom and we roll it up. Perfect. And I checked all these boxes. And we had that conversation before we walked into the house together. Like how much more peaceful would that first couple of months have been?
[00:37:01] Nicole: A whole lot more hugging and kissing. That's what I know.
[00:37:05] Ryan Englin: Except for the hugging and kissing, it would be a whole lot easier when we hire people after having these conversations, right? Let's talk about what on time means. Let's talk for a second about what attention to detail means. We've got this core value of Give a Damn. Let's talk about that for a second.
[00:37:21] Nicole: Uh huh.
[00:37:23] Ryan Englin: Here's what give a damn means to me. Now you tell me, how far away is that from what you thought it meant? Because that's the gap we have to bridge. And if we're going to bridge that gap, let's do it now. Let's not wait three months until I'm like, I want to fire this person.
[00:37:37] Nicole: Right. Right.
[00:37:38] Ryan Englin: So that's why we call it pullback offer, it's expectation setting. But here's the big takeaway from all this. I can teach you to do the job. I can teach you to use my software. I can teach you so much, and I'm probably gonna do it anyways 'cause it's part of onboarding. I can't teach you to show up on time. I can't teach you to give a damn. I can't teach you to share the foxhole. I can't teach you yes and... I can't teach those things. So let's build an interview process that assesses for those things.
[00:38:06] Nicole: Amen.
[00:38:08] Ryan Englin: Let the other stuff take care of itself. And don't ask questions. I hate question based interviews. Let's build a process. So let's tell people real early on, Hey, interview tomorrow at 7AM, we're gonna get started bright and early. I need you here 12 minutes early because we have a culture where we show up early for our meetings. They show up at 7AM. Well, you failed question one. Did you show up on time?
[00:38:34] Nicole: Oh my gosh. I wonder if there's a company that does that. Shows up early for their meetings. Wow. Yeah. That's funny. We can dream.
[00:38:41] Ryan Englin: But that's the idea, think instead of how do I ask him questions, how do I validate the behaviors that I want?
[00:38:49] We have a question. We do a lot of work in construction and the trades. And one of the things we'll say at the end of the phone screen is, Hey, by the way, I want you to show up dressed to work and that's it. We'll leave it a little vague because I want to know, are you going to come in boots? Are you going to come in board shorts?
[00:39:06] Nicole: Mm hmm flip flops. Yeah,
[00:39:08] Ryan Englin: I want you to come like you're going to be out on the job site because you know what, if I like you, I'm going to give you a shop tour and I can't have you in a shop tour in Crocs.
[00:39:15] Nicole: Right, gotta have steel toed on. That's right
[00:39:18] Ryan Englin: Yeah, but I don't want to tell them that. I want to know if they get it. Now, if they show up in Crocs, I'm gonna say this is interesting. Tell me how you normally show up to work. But now we can have a conversation about behavior and mindset that would have taken us three months to figure out on the job.
[00:39:34] Nicole: That's right.
[00:39:36] Ryan Englin: So that's the interview process and why I love it so much. I geek out on interviewing. I love it.
[00:39:40] Nicole: tell, you're totally geeking and I love it. I love your geekiness. All right. So you hire this person, you're going to onboard them. This could be a whole hour talking about I Oh, oh my God. Let's do that. Let's talk. Give us the highlights and then maybe you can come back. We can talk about onboarding .
[00:39:58] Ryan Englin: Three step onboarding process. Ready? There's three steps to onboard. So easy. So first off, onboarding is a process. It is not an event. Be really clear on that.
[00:40:07] Nicole: It's not, it's not two hours on Friday.
[00:40:10] Ryan Englin: The time. Oh, yeah. It's not two hours on Friday. But you should be re-onboarding people too. Because how often do things change? And the person that's been there three years has no idea.
[00:40:20] Nicole: Oh, a hundred percent, changes all the time.
[00:40:21] Ryan Englin: It's a process, not an event. But here's the thing. When someone is new to the team. So I'm very much people first, employee first. I want to think about what they're going through. Think about what they're going through. They just quit their job. They're praying that this is better than the last one. They have no idea who anybody is. They have no friends. They don't even know when they're getting their first paycheck yet, right? There's all these unknowns that are going into it and what do we do? They show up...
[00:40:47] Nicole: It's scary. Let's just say it.
[00:40:48] Ryan Englin: It is very scary. And then they show up on day one and they walk in the front office and the receptionist looks up and goes, who are you? I'm here for my first day. Do you know who your supervisor is? Like, they're like, what did I do? They don't even know who I am.
[00:41:05] Nicole: That's right. And they're like, sit down, we'll figure it out.
[00:41:08] Ryan Englin: Yeah, and then you sit down and they come back two hours later, Oh, we found you. John's coming out. He's going to give you the tour and everything else. But we got some bad news. HR didn't finish your paperwork, your background check's not back yet. You've got no IT credentials, so you can't really log in the system. So you're just going to shadow John for the day. Like how often do we do onboarding like that? A lot. And so here's what I'd rather you do. Instead of worrying about putting that person to work, make sure that you celebrate them being there. Stop celebrating people retiring or leaving and start celebrating people who show up.
[00:41:41] Nicole: Right, yeah, we could have a sign, balloons, we could have a welcome gift, a swag bag, we could have so many fun things.
[00:41:48] Ryan Englin: Yeah, just celebrate them. You're hiring a rock star. I talk about rock stars a lot. If you're hiring a rock star, celebrate them like a rock star. But here's the thing, three steps in onboarding. First one is people need to know how to think how you think. That is the first thing. And I tell people all the time, if in the first two weeks, they don't do a lick of work, but they figure out how to belong and how to think and how to behave like you do. You are just setting them up for skyrocket success.
[00:42:16] Nicole: That's right.
[00:42:17] Ryan Englin: Think how they think, first two weeks. In the first four weeks, I want you thinking, how do we do like we do? If you're teaching them process, you're not going click here, click here, click here. You're talking. This is how we do processes, right? This is how we operate, big picture holistic. And they're learning how to do like you do. And then finally, in the first 12 weeks, they're learning how to win like you win. What does success mean? How do you performance manage? How do you help people achieve their career goals? And so when you teach them to think like you think, do like you do, and win like you win, that's a recipe for success in onboarding.
[00:42:57] Nicole: That's right, that's right, people can't read your mind. And the other thing is you're talking about how we're going to have true employee engagement from the get go. You know, all this stuff about employee engagement, I think it's important, and I'm there. I'm with everybody. But the best employee engagement I ever had in my life is I had a leader who talked to me and taught me. And brought me up and showed me how to do things right and then I was successful. I got promoted. I made money. I got the better percentage at raise time. That's employee engagement in my book So I love that
[00:43:29] Ryan Englin: You know what we say when it comes to engagement, which you're getting to...
[00:43:32] Nicole: Right, that's the next thing on the wheel, friends.
[00:43:34] Ryan Englin: A great segue. What a great segue. Here's what I've learned about employee engagement, especially on the frontline. This is what I've learned. People don't care about your business as much as you do
[00:43:46] Nicole: Right
[00:43:47] Ryan Englin: Until you care about their personal life as much as they do. And that's the problem. How many times have you heard a leader say they just need to leave their drama at home? How many times have you heard a supervisor say he can't get his act together because he's going through some stuff? I need to terminate him. How many times have we seen that? You know what? You hired a human being. You get the good, the bad, the ugly, the drama. You get it all. We are not compartmentalized beings with switches that we can turn on and off. As much as we want that, that is not reality.
[00:44:20] Nicole: That's correct
[00:44:22] Ryan Englin: So if you find out that Susan's got a kid that's dealing with addiction and it's tearing her family apart and it's affecting her performance. There are ways to be there for her, not enable or tolerate poor performance because you still have business to run, but there are ways to be there for her and her family. There are ways to get her help. And if you take two minutes to go get her help or help her get help-- because when you're in that cloud, it's so hard to figure it out on your own. Take two minutes to go figure that out. You create a lifelong employee. We run behavioral assessments a lot. And we we did this one for an HVAC contractor. They had this, it was their top technician, year after year, top guy, could sell more, could do more. It was incredible. And all of a sudden his performance just started going down.
[00:45:12] Nicole: Mm.
[00:45:12] Ryan Englin: And of course, like most small businesses, they did nothing until they were ready to fire him.
[00:45:17] Nicole: Right.
[00:45:17] Ryan Englin: Like before you fire him...
[00:45:18] Nicole: What got into Mike, right?
[00:45:20] Ryan Englin: Yeah, let's assess him because this assessment that we run actually looks at some of the psychological stressors he's dealing with.
[00:45:26] Nicole: Mm-hmm
[00:45:27] Ryan Englin: So we ran the assessment and we're sitting down-- I'm sitting with the president, technician, and me-- and we're having this conversation and we're like, hey, you're seeing a lot of stress in this area of your life right now. What's going on? And he just wells up and starts crying And he goes on to tell us how he's going through this horribly painful divorce. She's taking the kids, taking the money, everything. And he thought he was doing a good job of still doing a good job. He thought he was doing a good job of hiding it.
[00:45:56] Nicole: He's just got blind spot. Yeah.
[00:45:59] Ryan Englin: You're in that cloud. It's hard to see. And so what they did was we sat down and of course at this point, they're like, okay, we can't fire him. We got to help him out.
[00:46:07] Nicole: Poor guy. He needs a paycheck.
[00:46:09] Ryan Englin: And so we asked a simple question. We can't just tolerate this. We can put you on leave if you want or something, that doesn't help. What can we do to support you in this? And he says, you know, the biggest stressor for me is I don't know when my attorney is going to call. I don't know when I'm going to have to go to court. I don't know when I'm to go collect paper. I don't know if I'm gonna get to go see my kids. I don't know these things.
[00:46:31] Nicole: Right.
[00:46:32] Ryan Englin: And all that uncertainty in my life is creating way too much weight for me to really focus at work. And we sat down and we said, well, how about this? What if we can commit to creating flexibility in your schedule when you give us enough notice on when you need flexibility. And they agreed that if within 24 hours, if he found out on a Tuesday that he needed Wednesday afternoon off, that would give them enough time to redo the schedule. And they said, we can't do this forever, but we are willing to work with you for the next six, nine, whatever they agreed on. We're willing to do this to help you through this time. And here's the thing. They didn't have to wait nine months for his performance to go back up. As soon as they removed that weight, that burden from him... within weeks, he was one of the top techs again.
[00:47:24] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:24] Ryan Englin: And so as much as we want to think, let them leave their stuff at home. They got to check their stuff at the door. If you can be there for them and care about the things, empathy, true empathy, you can do amazing things and getting people to engage.
[00:47:39] Nicole: Love it. Love it. Yeah. And here's a guy who's getting all the love ripped out of his life and here the company comes in and shows him some love. I mean, come on. That's so...
[00:47:48] Ryan Englin: Just a little bit. Yeah.
[00:47:49] Nicole: Yep. Good, good. Okay. So this is part of retain, by the way, right? We're doing attract, hire, retain. We have one thing left: assess.
[00:47:58] Ryan Englin: Yeah. So most people think this means performance reviews. It doesn't. Here's where I think we mess up with assessments. Too often, we look at individuals as the problem and we're assessing individuals to fix what really is a much bigger issue.
[00:48:14] Nicole: Right. Systemic.
[00:48:15] Ryan Englin: When we talk about assess, I want you to look at your process. That's what we're talking about. Assessing your employee experience, assessing your recruiting process, your onboarding, your hiring. I want you assessing those things. So like one of the metrics is time to first contact. And I'm not talking about the automated ATS sent that we got your application, we'll be in touch. I'm talking how long between that application and the first time a human being contacts somebody. I want to assess that because I can promise you that if you can shorten that and treat it like a sales lead, we talked about it being like sales,
[00:48:52] Nicole: That's what it is.
[00:48:53] Ryan Englin: the higher quality people will respond. But if you wait a week, cause you're like, Oh, I'll get to it when I get to it. Guess what? Those high quality people, those A players got jobs already. 'Cause someone was willing to move faster than you. So when we're assessing, we're looking at our process and we're making sure that we're dialing it in so that we get the right kind of people, like the people that fit our core into our organization.
[00:49:16] Nicole: So good. Alright. I don't know about y'all, but I love Ryan! And I love his book! And I love his system! Here it is again, if you're on the YouTube. _Hire Better People Faster_. And his company's called Core Matters. We started with the core. So Ryan, if somebody wants to hire you, put you on stage at a SHRM meeting, do something fantastical with you, how do they get ahold of you?
[00:49:42] Ryan Englin: Well, LinkedIn is the easy answer. I'm all over it. And then they can go to corematters.com and that's my website. And if someone's interested in my book, if they'd like a free copy, I'd be willing to give them out. So, you got to help me out with shipping the handling a little bit, but it's still less than going to Amazon.
[00:50:01] Nicole: Okay. Okay. My
[00:50:02] Ryan Englin: Go to corematters.com/freebook. You go there, you sign up. I'll even autograph and send you a copy.
[00:50:10] Nicole: Oh my goodness. That's so good. All right, everybody. It's been another beautiful episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast, and I have had the amazing Ryan, who's located in Tennessee, he will send you a free book. You just got to help him out with the shipping and you can find him on the LinkedIn. And here's what we'd like you to do. Go down right now, right now, go down, go down, go down and press the like button and leave a love note for Ryan. Say, this is what I loved about what you said. He would like to get your feedback and so would I. And I'm just so grateful for you taking the time and energy to spend an hour with me on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast.
[00:50:47] Ryan Englin: It went so fast. I had such a good time. Thank you for the great questions. I love this stuff.
[00:50:52] Nicole: Yep. Me too. All right, everybody. We'll see you next time.
[00:50:55] Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. If you found value in today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more like minded listeners. Remember, the journey to building a vibrant culture never stops. Stay inspired, keep nurturing your vibrant culture, and we can't wait to reconnect with you on the next exciting episode of Build a Vibrant Culture podcast.