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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I'd like to invite you to take a moment,
a moment within your day to pause,
to take this opportunity to
breathe in and breathe out
and resting in the pause,
taking this moment, taking this
opportunity to find grounding
and take inventory, allowing yourself
To breathe into your spiritual body.
Breathing into this body,
this heart, this spirit.
Allowing this opportunity to
simply watch what comes up.
Within this pause, inviting
your active imagination, your
creative process, and your healing
journey to all coalesce into one.
Once again, pausing,
taking breath in, inviting breath out,
allowing the active imagination,
the curious, the wonder, and your
healing journey to merge into
what is in your present moment.
And as you do so in your moment
of silence, connecting with
breath, connecting with thought,
and allowing your body to start
activating, listening, and
becoming that much clearer.
Once again, reminding yourself to pause,
be present, and simply breathe.
Turning to the body,
turning to your spirit,
and turning to your heart.
I encourage you now to simply take a
snapshot of this act of imagination,
this wonder, this present moment,
breathing in and once
again, releasing breath out,
taking one last look at this
beautiful snapshot, this imagery
as you paint across your canvas and
now turning to grounding,
grounding into this moment,
coming back to body,
inviting you to place hand on heart.
hand on belly and simply watch your
breath in and witness your breath out.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today, I am enthusiastic and super
excited to reconnect with Nina.
Nina, how are you coming in?
It's really great to be here, Ryan.
Good to see you.
Yeah, it's good to see you too.
Knowing that we've been working together
for some time through psychedelic
integration and the preparation, what
drew you to medicine work and what,
what was the call that you started to
listen to that brought this forward?
Yeah.
I had, I think I had a calling before
I even knew that I had a calling.
Have been doing healing work for
a lot of my life and have more
recently been really focusing on
somatics and embodied experiences.
And I also.
knew or had a sense that there was
something blocking, just some sort of
like block to more spiritual connection
even more connection with myself and
my inner being and my whole self.
And I had a dear friend who had a few
dear friends, actually, who have had
different sorts of experiences with
medicine and medicine journeys and, and
psychedelics and a dear friend who worked
with the guide who I ended up working
with on the in my psychedelic experience.
And As she was talking about it, I
was like, Oh, yes, yes, that I think
that is my path, a way for me to
unlock, I think what it is that
I was feeling that I needed.
, what's the emotion that you're
feeling right now as you recall
that and just the invitation
through friends and that referral.
Hmm.
Just such deep
gratitude and connection.
There's just like a I just feel
like a love and a connectivity and.
even gratitude for myself that like
that intuition was there and when
I like and that I listened to it.
That's huge and I do mind if we unpack
that a little bit because I think that
falling to somatic work is one thing
and I so appreciate your journey in
that but there's almost the next level.
of trusting the intuition when
it comes to doing something
so expanded and so vulnerable.
How did you listen to that intuition?
And what, what do you do personally to
know that that light is green for you?
It's
a great question.
And how, how did I know?
I don't know how, I don't
know how to describe it.
Let me talk it out a little bit and see.
But
it was a, there was a yes.
Like, there was just a, I went for it.
Like, it didn't even
require that much thought.
Like, once,
I don't know, once I heard
about it and just sort of, like,
every step of the way was more of,
like, a yes for me and there wasn't,
like, there wasn't a hesitation.
And so I just like went with it.
I went with that flow.
that's quite beautiful.
That's really beautiful.
And as I know, working with you
through preparation and integration
of the experience, it was very
incremental that there was a lot
of mini yeses and the reassurance
of the people that came before you.
I've noticed that in this
conversation, trusting yourself.
more than ever.
It sounds as if the trust in yourself
has become that much more crystallized.
Is that accurate?
Totally resounding.
Yes.
Resounding.
Yes.
So can you paint a picture
of what you walked into?
Because I think it's also important
that was it a group exercise?
Was it individual?
Give me a little context of what
unpacked for you and Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was individual and it was with a guide.
So those two things were
like really important to me.
Like I had for me, I knew that like a
group experience somewhere away from home
without a guide was like, not for me.
The yes for me was like the conditions
of, It being supported supported
by someone with a lot of experience
and knowledge and also like just
who I met and had like a heart soul
connection with and that I trusted.
And so when I say it was individual,
it was me by myself, but it, it, it
wasn't because it was like, it was
with this person who I, who I trusted.
And do you want me to talk a
little bit about sort of like what
led up to it and then that day?
Yeah, I think so.
And I think what I'm hearing, and
I just want to pause and give you a
deep sense of gratitude and validation
is knowing the importance of the
relationship of the guide and the safety
and I, myself, am a huge advocate.
I don't discount group, but what I've
noticed clinically and in my expression
is oftentimes people have a little
bit more of a filter around five,
ten, even two other people, right?
So not to go down the rabbit hole, but
I get a sense that there's an ability to
unlock a lot more within the safety of a
container individually with, you know, an
intimate relationship with a guide that's
professional and well equipped to hold
that container for one like yourself.
Can you say something about
that in that decision?
Yeah, that's, yeah, that really just like
even crystallized even more for me there
is yeah, the relationship to this person.
was crucial, and that trust, and my
trust, that this person could hold
whatever might come up, because
I didn't have that before within myself.
Now, after this, after the
experience, like, I know that
I can hold, that I can hold it.
And, I'd still want someone, it's also
nice to have someone by your side.
Who can also hold it?
Well, there's a mirroring, no?
I think even when I hear that is we
get to a level of needing a place
to trust ourselves, but a small
public service announcement, I
think, to just have that guide and
that support to hold the container.
Allows us to go that much deeper
into the universe and that much
more deeper into ourself, right?
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Nice.
What was the experience like, you, what so
can you share with me what maybe the big
takeaways were, what, what surprised you?
Because I know this was your
first experience being new to it.
What would you say?
Paint your picture today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's my first experience.
And I really,
I did not know what to expect.
And even though I say that I did, I did
have some expectations, even though my
God was like, let go of expectations.
It was hard to totally do that.
But it was my first experience and
it wasn't what I expected.
I
You know, I just, I, I, I
felt, I felt so many things.
I thought that I would see, like I'd
heard when hearing about psychedelic
experiences, like I heard about, I
would hear about like visions a lot.
And I didn't, I didn't have a, I didn't
have, like, I didn't see anything.
I didn't have a vision, but I felt
like that's, that's what it was.
It was, it was an embodied experience.
I felt so many things, even like.
An energetic presence of my mother
for example, was like one thing.
So I didn't, I didn't see her.
Like I thought that I would like, but
I re like, I, I, I felt, I felt her.
I felt a connection to
spirit and ancestors.
I felt all sorts of
emotions that I didn't.
Expect what's the emotion you're having
as you're recalling it right now, as
I witness you in this moment, I just
started like shaking a little bit.
I don't know if you could tell,
but like what's coming up.
It was, it's like,
I'm remembering even more now
which is a reminder to me to also
perhaps pause more than I
have since the experience.
And like, in order to remember, Okay.
What did I just hear?
In order to remember if I take intentional
pause, what does your body say to you?
I am here and
I can feel.
And I can trust the feeling?
I can trust the feeling.
What a breath of fresh air.
Yeah.
What's alive in you in this moment as we
consider and how does one walk in that?
What would you say this idea of
I'm actively walking with the
medicine and realizing as you just
witnessed It's still alive in you.
How does one harness that?
Yeah That
was perfect, that's all I needed
The words start to just
kind of evaporate, no?
I mean, yeah, seriously, that woo,
that, like, breathing pausing, there are
there are also other things that, like,
you, Ryan have helped in my, like, as
my integration guide, like, you know,
having, like, having this stone to hold
to help me remember yeah, the physicality,
bringing it into the physicality.
Yeah.
Can you speak more about that?
What you're learning about
something as simple as holding
the rose quartz or the stone?
Holding rose quartz yeah.
Holding my own hand is something that
that came up during the experience
and, and after too and so I find
myself do it, doing that, just like
even, even holding my own hand.
That's so sacred and what I really
appreciate that I want to pin is this
idea of when something in this session or
experience happens, that it's a wonderful
opportunity to use as integration.
And so you're expressing that
very beautifully, like as simple
as a rock hold, a handheld, an
acknowledgement of the body and pausing.
And those are all beautiful
somatic and physical
manifestations of integration, no?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you trust them?
I trust them.
Yeah, because I know I trust.
what I feel when I do that.
Mantras
to like, I, well, I'm saying mantras,
but even there are words that came to
me during the session that I say to
myself often now that bring me back.
Would you feel compelled to share the
wisdom that you're telling yourself?
Yeah.
Well, I can feel is, is, is one
of them that I've mentioned.
I can feel I can heal
and let love lead is the one that.
That comes up most
I've said that to myself many
times, multiple times a day, every
day since since the experience.
How does it remind you
when you say let love lead?
Mean a reminder, like a
reminder, a touch point.
It's like making,
it's like a simple, yeah, it's like
making this sort of like, profound,
complex, like, experience of so much.
There's so much happening.
And like, when you like bring it down and
distill it to its core, let love lead.
And then I'm just like,
and one of the things that I'm really
impressed with and remarking, and
I'm great, you're bringing it to
the surface is Nina, this idea of
you have a physical integration with
the rock and the crystal and the
courts, you have a verbal integration
with the mantras of let love lead.
And then the dynamic nature
of the physicality of self.
So there's like an internal process
that I'm watching within you, as well
as like, you A grounding external
manifestation that kind of gives
a holistic landing, it sounds.
Yeah.
Does that feel?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I appreciate the distilling.
What's it like to distill all
like you said, this information?
Yeah.
I mean, there's a clarity.
I have a tendency to just sort of be
like, Oh, there's like,
there's this and there's that.
And there's so much, how
do I incorporate it all?
Or like, How do I remember is a question
that that we've like talked about.
And
that's all, that's really
all I need to remember.
That's really all I need to remember.
Right.
And that's a really fundamental
thing that does get us challenged
by working with psychedelics, right?
Is how are we going to remember this?
How are we going to walk with this?
And, you know, I often I'm faced with
that myself, but also, want to talk about
that a little bit is, what is a way to be
compassionate in the integration process?
How are you walking with this
compassionately knowing that we
can't, as I often say, pick up all the
treasures and look at all the treasures
and then dissect all the treasures?
Right.
Yeah.
How do you inventory that?
How do you kind of make sense
of all the things floating
around and what's felt since?
Yeah.
Coming back to
letting love lead, just
coming back to that
breathing, I mean, it comes like, I
feel like it's all coming back to.
The pausing, the quiet,
which to be honest, I haven't done as
much as, as much as like I want, you know?
And like, even, even now I'm pausing
and talking about it and coming back.
It's like, Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Mm.
Pretty alive in you.
I'm, I'm the witness that I see
in watching you is in this pause.
I've seen a tremendous amount
of kind of refreshing medicine
coming back through your system.
Mm-Hmm.
. Do you get that felt sense when
you started to feel the vibrations?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
And it feels.
It feels really good and validating also
that like you are, you are seeing or
feeling that too and yeah, I'm feeling it.
So, with all that being felt and knowing
that you're the seeker of the somatic
healing, what will you know and how
will you know when to tap into it?
And two, if it calls you again,
because you made a beautiful
commitment to listening to the call
and then giving that definitive yes.
Knowing you're new to the exploration
of psychedelics, but not new to somatic,
you're very, very gifted at listening.
How are you going to differentiate
if it's something to use or if it's
something to continue to integratE?
This is me pausing and
feeling and feeling into that.
I
don't know.
I mean, when it, you know,
it's listening, it's like trusting,
trusting myself and my body
and, and really listening.
And I think what the
experience provided was.
A remembrance, a deeper knowing,
and an embodied feeling of,
of that trust, of, like, that, that
knowing, because these are things, like,
as, as we mentioned, you know, I've, like,
been on a healing journey, and I have
practiced semantics, and all sorts of,
all sorts of things, and, like, have had.
spiritual seeking in a variety
of ways that have really
served me well, and that I've had,
like, an a level of understanding of.
And what this provided was like a
real deep felt embodied sense of it.
That now it's just like when I say
let love lead, whereas before I would
have been like, yeah, that makes, that
makes sense to like, let love lead.
Like, of course we want to let love lead.
And now when I say it,
It's an embodied feeling of that.
What a breath of fresh air.
It's magical and it's unexplainable.
It's what I'm hearing is done through
action and done through behaviors and
the way you interface with the world.
Yeah.
My favorite question, Nina, what are you
doing to walk gently with yourself today
and within this integration experience?
I'm breathing.
I am
allowing.
room for play.
I mean, I could stop at even I'm allowing.
Yeah.
But I know the play is
so important, right?
The allowing is, isn't it magical?
Yeah.
Like no ethical conundrum.
Allowing is allowing.
There it was again.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reminding myself that
It's okay to go slow.
It's okay to be gentle.
Yeah.
How am I being gentle with myself?
Reminding myself to be gentle with myself.
Just the, what you said.
So it's becomes tangible though.
It really becomes tangible, right?
Like before it's like, yeah, be gentle.
Okay.
Well, how, like how, how,
what does that feel like?
What does being gentle even feel like?
Now I know.
Thank you.
I'm so humbled and excited to
see you and I'm grateful for
walking with you on this path.
Me too, Ryan.
Thank you.