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The Retail Media Podcast, in association with Mirakl , is a 10-part series detailing the journey from Retail to Media. Starting at NRF’s Big Retail show, this series will traverse to the festival of digital media that is Cannes Lions, with engaging and informative conversations in between.
Global retail media guru Colin Lewis will be joined by special guests each episode to discuss the rapidly growing ecosystem of retail media, and its power to not only reach substantial target audiences but also help brands build and maintain loyalty.
Hello, and welcome to the Retail Media Podcast. My name is Colin Lewis, and I'm talking to three incredible guests from Douglas Marketing Solutions or Douglas, if you're from The UK, in Germany, live from Germany right now. Guys, tell us who you are, what your title is, what you do.
Heike:Hi, Colin. My name is Heike. I'm the team lead of international sales and business development, and I'm responsible for all our international sales activities where we have people in six countries.
Lena:Hi, my name is Lena. I'm leading the strategy and consulting team at DMS. And my responsibility is identifying white spots at the brand's ecom universe and creating retail media strategies out of it.
Nesma:Hi. I'm Nesma. I'm the team lead of the digital activation team at DMS, and my team is responsible for all the operational campaign management of our retail media activities.
Colin:So we have a real powerhouse of the team on this podcast. So let's start at the top. Tell us about Douglas and what Douglas do.
Heike:Yes. So Douglas is Europe's number one beauty omnichannel omnichannel retail destination. We are at the moment active and live in over 22 countries on Continental Europe. Colin, I'm sorry for you. It doesn't include England.
Heike:And we have over 1,900 stores.
Colin:1,900. That's incredible. Right across Europe. Yeah. Wow.
Colin:Now tell us about Douglas Marketing Solutions, which obviously is the retail media version of the of the Douglas.
Nesma:Yes. We are specifically from Douglas Marketing Solution, and that's the full funnel and full service in house digital media agency of Douglas. And currently we're operating in nine European markets and we work with around 150 to 200 brands.
Lena:That is true. And maybe to add on that, I think what we now missed, we had Douglas, we had DMS, but the three the third d is data, I would say. And that's the most interesting part, especially when we're looking at retail media later. We have a CRM customer loyalty program, let's say, of 59,000,000 beauty card holders, which is bigger than Payback. So I think it's pretty impressive.
Colin:59,000,000. Have you counted them yourself, Lina? I I'm sure you have.
Lena:Yes. Of course.
Colin:A lot of people there isn't that many people in in in the whole of Europe. Now the the the bit that I I love is, and I've been lucky enough to work with a number of health and beauty retailers, is the health and beauty customer. It's it's so fascinating that it's the more you get into it, the more you realize what an incredible market it is and actually how exciting it is. So tell us about the Douglas customer, health and beauty customer. Who are they?
Colin:What do they do? What are they interested in? Where are they at?
Nesma:I think what's very outstanding of the health and beauty industry is that people are very passionate about beauty. So for everyone, beauty means something else, whether it's inner beauty or expressing your beauty or beauty can be a moment, a situation, an experience. And I think that's something special in the industry that people really feel beauty is something very individualistic, I would say.
Lena:Yeah. And also you are kind of escaping beauty. Like, you're escaping your daily life and all the economic and very challenging situations that are going on at the moment. And with beauty, you can escape that. And it's it's also about, let's say, self consciousness, self confidence, and and so on.
Lena:So it's a very positive industry, although it's still we consume stuff, let's say.
Heike:And I Kungian completely underline this. So when people are coming either in our store or on our website, they are usually in a very, very positive mindset because they really buy something which makes themselves even even feeling better than before. So they are in a very positive mindset. And when they come in one of our 1,900 stores, they come in and they really wanna feel the product with all their senses. So they wanna they wanna feel the texture of it.
Heike:They wanna mend the products. They wanna have a consultation with one of our beauty advisers getting their enormous knowledge about the product. This is really one of the key differentiators we have. So people coming, they are excited, and they buy something which makes their their everyday life even better.
Lena:Yeah. Also, because you asked about the the customer, the beauty customer, I think what is super interesting in a beauty customer is that they are super dynamic and the whole economic like the whole beauty economy is very disruptive. So it's not not one customer equals the other. We have multiple versions of, especially when we look at the different generations of user journeys and customer behavior, trends are a big topic obviously in beauty. They come out of nowhere and they also go as fast as they come.
Lena:So it's a very flexible and agile ecosystem, I would say, and as well as the customers.
Heike:Yes. And adding on this, our customers come in all shapes and forms. So it's not only what people might guess 80% women. Yes, women is kind of a majority at the moment, but we see more and more that especially younger men are so interested in plewdic products, might it be skincare, but even more often, it's about the fragrances. So they are really committed to buy the fragrance, which really fits their personality.
Nesma:Yeah. And probably there's
Colin:a number of listeners that really need to up their game then and visit a few Douglas stores and up their fragrance game, particularly on the blog side anyway, at least. But that that's you touched on something there that I found, you know, it was only when I got into it, I realized it's so fascinating. The trends bit and the innovation, it's like a hits driven business, like a music business. It's a hits driven business.
Nesma:True.
Colin:Tell us a little bit more about that and and this innovation trends piece and why that's such a driver.
Nesma:I think one of the one of the core things is that you also mentioned it in the beginning, you said health and beauty. And so I would say nowadays, beauty and health are more tied in together than ever. So people, they're not only taking care of their outer beauty, but also their inner beauty. And so what's really what's really booming, I would say, right now is just, you know, all the health aspects of beauty. You know?
Nesma:Skin care is booming. Antiaging is booming, people take care of the ingredients that are in the products.
Lena:Yeah, and also because you asked about the trends and how do the trends come up, I think it's like an inspirational business. So where do the get inspiration from? It's of course on the one hand social media, especially the younger generations. They just look for what is my favorite influencer recommending to me? And then it's like a quick commerce stuff, but it really depends.
Lena:So it's very different across the different generations how much people are researching and exploring and wanting to understand the brand or the product or whether it's, oh, I see that product and I wanna buy it by the way. So, there are multiple journeys, I would say.
Colin:How does that research piece work? How does that how does the consumer well, not consumer, like the the the shopper thinking about finding things and discovering things?
Heike:Yeah. This all ties back into our omnichannel approach we have at Douglas. So our products are in general a little bit more high involvement. So it's not like going into a supermarket and buy a packet of cereals where you have super low involvement. With our product, it's a little bit higher price at the end, people really wanna have good consultation.
Heike:They wanna have time to really decide and to get the commitment in the end. So what we see is people might go in the shop and try a product, let's say, a fragrance or some makeup. They get a consultation from one of our beauty advisers. They might go home in the end. They might search online again on the Douglas website about the ingredients.
Heike:Then they might go on the app and search something else. And in the end, they might convert on one of our channels. And this is why it's so important for us to have an omnichannel approach to really be close to the customer at all the times where whenever it is to really approach him and give him kind of all the information he needs before he makes the final commitment and purchase at the end of the day.
Lena:Yeah. And, Colin, this even applies to the famous Gen Z now who everyone is talking about and whoever brand wants to crack, let's say as a new customer base. And they even are researching online and looking for inspirations at TikTok and whatsoever. But in the end, they go to the store and try the product and then finally buy it in store. So beauty is all about omnichannel, I would say.
Colin:Mhmm. The it is fascinating because it's such it's a high passion product, and it's also part of this overall long term megatrend around health and beauty. And I think it's a really good nuance to make that we're not just talking about beauty. It's health inside and outside, which, of course, then can completely expand the range of opportunity thinking around around products? So, like, obviously, to cater for this omnichannel customer, there's a lot of there's a lot of SKUs, a lot of products that will will will get happen.
Colin:Now I know you have a marketplace as well as the main douglas product range. Do you know how many SKUs you've got there or any products you've got in the range?
Heike:Yes. So the marketplace at the moment has roughly 150 thou 5,000 products from approximately 200 brands. So it doesn't sound a lot, but we have to say we really carefully curate the products on the marketplace. So it's really a closed system, and we really wanna make sure that we have high quality luxury products on it. But on the
Colin:A 150,000 is a lot to me, but then I don't know how many normal SKUs there are in these shops. So listen. Yeah.
Lena:Sorry. I didn't wanna interrupt. I just wanted to add to Heiko because we were talking innovations, right? So I think that marketplace strategy enables Brutlass to be innovative when it comes to brands and products. So it's like a it's not a super short term solution, but at least it's an opportunity to have, let's say, trending brands in our system.
Colin:Now, obviously, in with all this is we're we're talking to Douglas Douglas marketing solutions, and the one of the d's is data, but let's talk about the retail media opportunity. Tell us about the full range. We're talking obviously about Douglas, but what about Douglas Marketing Solutions? What's the what's the full suite of retail media products that you've got on offer?
Heike:Yeah. Thanks for asking this. So when we started off with Duplass Marketing Solutions, we obviously started with sponsored product ads, kind of the bread and butter product in retail media. And then after that, we the second step, we are edit audience ads, which is our display solution. But we very quickly realized that in retail media, we would love to cover the full funnel to really give our brands the opportunity to start when it comes to awareness over consideration into sales and repurchase.
Heike:And he slowly but surely added over the course of the last couple of years several different products to really kind of close the loop in the funnel. So to give you one example, beginning of this year, we started to add our digital signage, which are our digital screens in store, and we added this to our product solutions. So we not only can run ads online as it was before and in our app, but now also on really, really big screens in stores really at the point of sale where the customer is really about to purchase a product. Then we added also further products like video ads, offline off-site solutions. So Off-site one point zero which is basically running ads with our first party data in the open Internet.
Heike:This could be websites like Meta, products like Facebook, Meta, Instagram, or it could also be TikTok, Pinterest, and so on and so forth. But then we also added a solution which is called Data two point o, where we allow companies like, for example, commercially or also The Trade Desk to run campaigns successfully with our first party data again on third party websites in this in a programmatic way, which really opens up further solutions. Here's also then products like the Douglas PAT tester, repurchase emails. So we really close the whole funnel from awareness to repurchasing at the end of the day.
Colin:No. That's that's that's a lot of stuff going on there. The the one one d that we we want to talk about was we mentioned earlier was d for data, and we've already had a good sort of deep dive into who the customers are. But how are you thinking about data at Douglas? Because, you know, there's a lot of a lot I talk to a lot of people.
Colin:There's a lot of misunderstanding what data is. So I always like to ask our guests, what do you mean when you're talking about data with respect to doulas?
Lena:I think data is like the engine of our campaigns. So we use data to identify white spots and pain points for the brand. So to see where they still have growth potentials, whether it's in a traffic gap or whether they have a lack in conversion rate or whatsoever. So this is like the first part. And then data is also about identifying the right audience for the specific use case.
Lena:So who are the customers you want to target per channel, per product and then activating these across the different channels or touch points. And then looping back this, I mean, the third part of it would probably be the reporting part of data, like all the measurement stuff, which Vitaire Media is always how do you say?
Colin:Our listeners have suddenly put their Google Translate on there. They announced in German as well. But the the the the the the the thing about data, you've got what did you say? 59,000,000, 69,000,000 in your learning program?
Lena:Because 59. Yeah.
Colin:That's a lot of data points, to say the least. That's that's a lot of fingers and toes I need to count. I mean, it's a lot of stuff there. So how how much like, how are you packaging all this? How are you thinking about this in terms of insights as well as measurement?
Colin:Because as we know, we could talk about measurement for the rest of the the year. How are you thinking about insights with the data kind of perspective?
Lena:Please, let's skip the measurement part because this is what retail media's about all the time.
Colin:We're we're not gonna be vlogging measurement.
Lena:Oh, what? Yeah. Talk about something different. Yeah. Maybe Nesmar from a campaign operational perspective, you wanna comment on that.
Nesma:Yeah. I mean, obviously, As Lena stated, we are working with data on a day to day basis, whether we use it to optimize the campaigns, to monitor the campaigns, to make sure we get the best outcome, the best results. We look at the learnings we can generate and apply them to the next campaigns again and to apply them on furthest or more advanced strategies for the brand. It's really part of our day to day business. We try to combine as much data as possible in shared dashboards and very interactive ways of reporting stuff, but obviously it's a work in progress and we're still not at the ideal stage.
Lena:But what real use case, for example, with the 59,000,000, of course, it's not all of them, but when we look at the Carolina Herrera case, let's say like one of the famous fragrance brands, we had a big campaign last year with them where they were re pushing a product that has been recently launched and they were like, okay, we have a new luxury product in our portfolio and we are usually not a luxury brand. So what can we do to reach the right customers that have an affinity for these kind of products? So we were looking into who are the users that have an affinity for luxury products. Then we were kind of selecting them from the 59,000,000 users and then it probably was just, I don't know, 5,000,000 maybe in Germany and then we were activating these audiences across the different touch points and looping this in the end back to the campaign results, looking at, did we significantly increase the share of luxury buyers for Carolina Herrera? And spoiler, yes, we did.
Lena:I think we talked about this quite often, but it's a great success how we leveraged the data in multiple versions.
Nesma:Because it did have an impact on the campaign performance, but also on the overall ecommerce performance of the brand. So we actually saw an uplift of the sellout data and, yeah, just the ecommerce data. And I think that's what's great about We Tell Me. Yeah. Then it also gives an uplift to ecommerce performance.
Colin:As well, yeah, as a as a rollover, as the follow on for us. Yeah. That's a great case study. It's one of the things that when I'm talking to media networks and talking to brands, everybody says, well, do we have decent case studies? And, of course, by talking to folks like yourself, you can find out all these amazing case studies that deliver both in terms of brand lift, in terms of incremental sales, but actually overall work on the e commerce business as well.
Colin:One thing you touched on there is about this visual aspect. You know, it's health and beauty. It's how we look and how we feel. And you touched a lot on how you're working with an Instagram, Pinterest, TikTok, and, of course, in store. And what connecting piece of all of these, they are very much visual pieces.
Colin:You know, we're we're not selling lettuce here. We're not selling tins of beans here where the visual aspect is it doesn't matter. In this case here, we're selling we're selling aspiration, if you will. So tell us about your thinking about those particular apps and in store because I'm a huge fan of in store. So tell us about your thinking, particularly from a creative perspective on this.
Colin:How does this come from? How does your thought process and your creative strategy work here?
Lena:We know where you're getting there because we've all read your paper on seven challenges and I think off Yeah. We're really
Colin:find the line tracker.
Lena:It's yeah. I I absolutely agree because this is my new speech as well. And
Colin:You can use my all my material. It's okay. Yeah.
Lena:But I'm putting you in the source, of course. It's like robbing you. Yeah. I think what you said is a good point, and I know that Heiko wants to comment on that, but maybe it's a good time for my quote that I've been telling the girls before because I heard this in another podcast recently, and it said, retail media science is done now, and now it's all about art. And I think that's quite yeah.
Lena:That fits quite well to this question because it's all about creativity now and talking about a holistic campaign strategy that is more than just measurement and KPIs and putting And more about efficiency, but about a holistic journey that we guide the user through. So I think that's a nice quote. Yeah.
Heike:I really love this quote. And so what we've seen in retail media is when it comes to the creative part, we definitely are in a situation where we are evolving. So kind of when retail media started was all kind of about sponsored product ads or, let's say, audience ads. It was pretty simple. But we what we realized at the moment is that as we are omnichannel and we are seeing the customer at very different touch points in very different situations, we also need to have very different creatives because one creative doesn't fit all the situations.
Heike:So, for example, let's say if we go back to the digital screens in stores, if you have a really big screen facing outside the Douglas window, and then you basically can have a ten second video. You basically pass you the people who see a video are passed by passengers. They walk next to the store. You probably have one or two seconds, which basically means that the video in the window must catch the attention instantly someone passes the store because it really you just have a few seconds or milliseconds. But compared to this, if you, for example, then have a screen in the store behind the behind the checkout, the situation is completely different because people are standing in line in store.
Heike:They spend, let's say, ten or fifteen minutes in the store. You have a really huge dwell time. If you then have a ten second video, you really can tell a story to the consumer. You can build a story up. So it's a completely different asset you need.
Heike:Wow. Yes. And also, if we talk about commerce video, which is our video solution on-site, you can also use a completely different storytelling than, for example, if you have an ad which you wanna run on on TikTok, for example, or on on Instagram. So it really depends on the different user situation, and it's it's our job to really educate our clients, our brands that the creative part, the assets definitely need to evolve over time as the retail media business has evolved as well.
Lena:Yeah. Because let's be honest, this is not the case right now. Right? We're we're just getting the assets delivered. They had produced anyways for the brand brand campaigns or whatsoever.
Lena:And then it's like, okay. But it doesn't make sense on this touch point. Don't you like, then we can, of course, consult and educate, but it's yeah. That's at the that's a challenge that we have, like, of the seven challenges in this space.
Colin:Well, it is a thing across the board. It's a new sort of language that needs to develop a new sort of way of thinking. And we we all made this mistake quite over ten or so years ago when social media became a thing. And we, you know, people even people like myself who who understood or thought we understood social media squashed our print ad or our, you know, magazine ad into fitting into a into a into a Facebook ad. And it was just it didn't make any sense.
Colin:It's a new language and a new thing. So, yeah, I'm die I'm also really super excited about in store. I think in health and beauty, that is, like, probably the best use case. And I have a I have a little dream of this idea of what happens on TikTok TikTok can be applied to in store as well. It's a kind of now do you guys deal with influencers at all?
Colin:Because, obviously, health and beauty influencers is is a thing. Is that part of your repertoire?
Nesma:I think it refers maybe to the collab, the social commerce. Uh-huh.
Lena:Yeah. And also, yes, so we do have this collaboration internally with our social commerce team, but I think it's also possible to to or we also recommend to use influencer visuals and clips for other touch points because it's, like, super engaging and more just native user generated content, which is, yeah, more yeah. As as I said, engaging, obviously.
Nesma:Yeah, it's a general trend that we see that creatives need to be more personal nowadays and more approachable. They need to be able to identify with the person holding that bottle on the creative and the message should be transparent. And I think we the more relatable content is and the people on the creative, the more and especially younger audience nowadays is most more likely to buy.
Lena:Yeah. This is also why we encourage, let's say, micro influencers within our product formats. Right? It's not a big influencer. Like, I don't know who, but it's just it's a different version of influence.
Colin:What micro micro influences? What are your suppliers? Are you your big brands? I mean, you're dealing with some of the world's biggest brands, the the L'Oreal's and the Unilever's and the Self of this World and Carolina Herrera. What are they saying?
Colin:What is what's in their kind of what's their view on retail media?
Lena:It's an interesting question. Okay. I was thinking it depends. I would say they are much more sophisticated than three years before when I started at EMS. So they have, yeah, built up their their knowledge.
Lena:They are well educated now about retail media, at least the big ones. Right? We have been working with retail media for quite a while now. I think it's still a challenge for them to place retail media in their overall brand media strategies. This is still a pain point for us.
Lena:They still located more in the lower funnel and which is great because now it's established. So it's tick box when it comes to lower funnel budgets, performance budgets. But it's now the challenge is to really move them up the funnel and yeah.
Nesma:Yeah. And yeah. Also noticed that the requests are getting more advanced than maybe three years ago in retail media, so the insights that the brands really want and need, it's getting more advanced. They're seeking more advanced measurement. Now I'm talking about measurement again.
Lena:Yeah, and then you can quote your example from, what was it, Omar with the customer lifetime value.
Nesma:Now I can throw that into the phone. Now you're just laughing because like one big buzzword at last year's OMR was no it was actually this year's OMR was really customer lifetime value, SKPI. So that's something new, and that's something that is more trackable with also advanced data solutions, let's say. But people really want to measure nowadays, like, how loyal are their customers? What's, like, the what's the second purchase they do after they have done a first purchase?
Nesma:And, like, these kind of things are kind of coming off the ground now.
Heike:Yeah. And one one thing we also realize is that we mentioned earlier that our products are not only as we started kind of lower funnel. We really went up the funnel with our suite of solution. And so this also requires that within our brands, we not only talk any longer purely to the retail media departments. So we more and more shift also the conversations to performance marketing teams, to brand marketing teams, to media agencies.
Heike:And then we start really completely different conversations. So we are not talking any longer only about the ROAs. We are talking about further performance KPIs. So at the end of the day, it's about incrementality, then put this into an attribution model, combining it in an ideal world with an So the conversations we start to have now and it's just the beginning, but it is a completely different. It's coming from retail media, but it's slowly but surely shifting into real learned media conversations.
Heike:Mhmm.
Lena:And
Colin:No. We we're we're actually talking about things that are sort of happening now, and you say we we moved on over the last number of years. But where are you? What what initiatives or new things or innovations are you particularly excited about over the next, say, three years? Because as we know, three years is a is is a is a lifetime in retail media, but stuff that you're excited about right now.
Colin:And I I will allow you to use the word AI with Mhmm. See it. Give me my blessing to you, the AI, but also give me a blessing if you don't wanna use it as well. So what's your sort of things you're getting excited about over the next three years?
Lena:I mean, we have
Nesma:three buckets, let's say. Let's let's say every person says one bucket.
Heike:Micah, you start. Yes. So I still wanna stick with digital signage because this is the topic which is so close to my heart. So we started the digital screens pilot earlier this year, and we've seen tremendous success with this pilot until June now. And now we are rolling it out across even further stores within Germany, but we are also adding, over the course of the next couple of months, Switzerland and Austria.
Heike:So we have a full Das solution on this. And this is just the beginning. The plan is then to roll out further countries over the course of the next two to three years because we clearly see, especially in beauty, it is all about omnichannel. We have omnichannel products. We have an omnichannel customer experience, and it's just the natural evolution that we as retail media also offer a solution which is omnichannel, which is in store at the point of sale where the people really can test and try the products before they eventually make a sale at one of our touch points, which we offer with our solutions.
Colin:So, Nesma, what's your what's what's something you're excited about? And as I say, you can use the word AI if you want to or you don't?
Lena:No. I already can. So I'm
Nesma:I'm gonna talk about the self-service platform for now because that's something we're really excited about. We actually just launched it a few weeks ago. So we built our self-service platform to offer brands who tend to have smaller budgets also and easy access to our inventory. And I think that's really great because we're kind of democratizing. Is that an English word?
Nesma:I'm not sure.
Lena:We're
Colin:Eurozymocratizers can be the name of your next campaign. Yeah.
Nesma:Yeah. I thank you. No, but we're of demarketizing our tool and our inventory for smaller brands and I think that's something we're really excited about.
Lena:No, go ahead, Filipe.
Heike:Just to add on this, as we mentioned earlier, Colin, we are, with our retail media business, active in nine different countries. And there are, of course, more mature countries, and there are kind of, yeah, countries which are very early stage when it comes to retail media. And especially in those countries, we have a lot of very small clients who are very early stage with retail media who wanna do their first steps. And for them, our self-service platform is an ideal solution because they can set up their campaigns themselves. They can define their own pace they wanna run the campaigns.
Heike:They can check the campaigns, and they can optimize it themselves so they can learn as they go. And this is a solution which is really super important for them and, yeah, empowers them to run campaigns with us which they probably wouldn't have been able before.
Nesma:Yeah. They have full control, but barely any barrier entry barrier. Yeah. So that's great for them.
Colin:Lina, what are you excited about?
Lena:Well, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say something including AI because I know you wanna hear it. No. Think what we are as well most excited about is, of course, data because we love data. And we have now recently, as Heiko explained, launched the Offsight two point o initiative, and that will enable us to activate our data, our audiences, yeah, all the brands activate them in self-service across different platforms. This is exciting.
Lena:And I think at the same time, the data is tied to AI. I mean, the more data you have, the better the AI can be. And I think there are lots of opportunities when we're looking at this area, especially in terms of optimization, automation, which brings us more time to focus on innovations again. And then I can link this back to the creativity part because we need to have time to be creative and to consult the brands. So I think we definitely need the AI part in this.
Lena:And yeah. So I think there there will be exciting things coming up, and AI is gonna be included. Definitely. Okay.
Colin:Well, at least you wedged that particular reference in there, so that's always good. So that's been easy for me to remember what you said because it was data, democratization, AI, and omnichannel. I mean, we we're we're buzzword bingo here about No.
Lena:Of course. It's free time media. That's always
Colin:Yep. And we and we daren't cross the road into talking about measurement, and we we shall not do it on this podcast. Well, listen, Adam, that's been a fantastic, chat. Any final tips for our listeners who are, you know, from retail brands or actually from brands or from retail media networks? What what?
Colin:Tips from the health and beauty experts. Think even be beauty tips, by the way, Lena. Mean, you've already
Lena:some more.
Colin:You've right away, need to be wearing aftershaves. I'm kind of upping my game already.
Nesma:Wear vitamin c and sun protection. Wear sun protection.
Lena:Think it's for mountain fish. In the beauty industry, as we said, it's trend driven. So you need to be ahead of time. You need to be disruptive. And even as a mature brand, need to be innovative and creative when it comes to retail and media strategies.
Lena:So I think this would be a final message for me. Like, try something new, be mood check or just mood check. Bow it. Bow it. It.
Nesma:At the same time, stay approachable. Make sure you have a personal message that you're getting out there and make sure that people can relate to you.
Heike:Yes. And so for me, last but not least, also Thinkful Funnel. This is hugely important to grow over time. Yes. And, basically, to grow the brand at the end of the day.
Heike:It's it's not only about a single campaign. For us, we see it really holistically in the picture of we wanna help our brands to grow their brand value in total, and this is why full funnel is hugely important for us moving forward.
Lena:And omnichannel. How many times did we say omnichannel? Yeah. We we should come. I One We're
Colin:going from there. Aika, Rina, and Nesma, thank you being for such fantastic guests on the Vita Media Podcast and and for giving us such insights and for forcing me to go out and buy some outshift.
Nesma:Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Lena:Thank you so much. It was fun.