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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[00:00:00] Welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 137. I'm your cohost, my passions. And I'm joined as always by the relative man himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning, mark. The special relativity man, I'll take that. I'll tell ya because of how much knowledge is behind it. I will accept that, that accolade.
Thank you, Mike. Good morning. How are you? I'm very well. And boy, I feel something fresh, something brand new, a twist, and a turn in the moonshots adventures coming up for us. Tell us about it. Yeah, we've gone on a journey of Jordan Peterson. We revisited some of our most famous and popular moonshot is within our rising star series.
And Mike we've just finished. What I really enjoyed a couple of collections of Cal Newport. And today we are kicking off a brand new series. You could say, actually, Mike, this one's a little bit overdue. We're getting into mental models. And [00:01:00] boy, have we got a foundation to build on today? Don't we I'm, I'm slightly nervous about this show mark, as you can probably do.
Yeah, this is somebody who you just drop his name. And everybody around the world probably is aware of the work that he did as well as his looks. And that's Mr. Albert Einstein, what a powerhouse of an individual for us to break down today, Mike? Yeah. And the funny thing about Einstein is that, you know, of course everybody knows Einstein.
He's like a heavyweight, he's iconic in every sense of the word, but here's the interesting thing. Even somebody who's just genuinely fascinated and curious about people and how they succeed. Like I am coming back to Einstein through the lens of the moonshots podcast has been amazing. I, I knew he had some, some ways of he's magic, how he thought how he [00:02:00] solved problems, but I have taken so much joy in getting into those actual models and I'm really into mental models at the moment.
I, so I'm just delighted to be starting the series, but I can tell you mark, and to all of our listeners, we're going to break down how Einstein actually did it. And I will tell you this. I'm sure he was talented. However, there was hard work, a great moonshot theme, but here's the thing. He had a textbook series of mental models, way to think way to work on problems, how to come up with great creative, original ideas.
And I propose that we have six amazing clips to take the audience through today, mark, where we can discuss where we can learn out loud and decode how Einstein did. I mean, that's such a huge concept [00:03:00] around mental models and proof that they work. Like, because if you take somebody who's on, you know, just another planet, at least compared to me Einstein and the work that he did in mathematics physics.
So it's just another complete world. But yeah, he has, as you say, with these practices, these habits, these behaviors this way, and for me as an individual who is a knowledge worker, sometimes struggling with maybe sifting through the essential and the essential work, trying to prioritize, trying to break down challenges that are big for me and put them in two actionable bite-size pieces that make a difference.
When I look at somebody like Einstein who had this natural ability to solve problems and break them down into easy to understand ways, that's really, really valuable for me as an individual. And that's, what's been really fun. Like you say, Mike, in breaking down Albert Einstein for this mental model, Absolutely.
So, I mean, Einstein has given [00:04:00] us the ability to define light catacombs, even time itself in some of these theories and the body of his work. I feel like I am ready to ask myself, how did he do it and how might I do it to mark? Or where do we start? Cool. Well, I think what's really interesting when you break down the way that he approached these problems and the way that he tried to solve these huge questions about atoms light time.
I mean, come on. Is there anything bigger than those three things? And it was his way of thinking. So this first clip to get us started today is Roberta graph breaking down Einstein's imagination.
Wow. That is for me, that is everything we're about on this show. I mean that cliff talking about challenging the status quo, thinking originally having this imagination and this creativity to come up with something [00:05:00] groundbreaking to make a contribution. To me, that is the essence of being the best version of yourself, finding your unique ability, your unique talent.
I am so far, that was such a great clip. It's it's the perfect demonstration of Einstein being a moonshot. You know, I think myself coming into the show and thinking about Albert Einstein, I knew him obviously from, from school, from upbringing and it was always a bit intimidating. I would struggle to try and break down many of his theories and, and, you know, the, the things that won him so many awards and recognitions globally, internationally, and to actually hear how he went to try and figure out those problems and thought about it from a creative, original thinking, you know, Adam Grant approach, he takes these, these challenges and thinks about them in different ways.
That's his key, that's his success that it's quite [00:06:00] reassuring. It almost feels Mike achieved. Doesn't it. Yes. Within our grasp might say it was within our grasp. And once we learn as we will today in today's show on Albert Einstein, some of these practices that he had, I feel as though I can then put into practice some of those habits that Einstein had.
Yeah, absolutely. So throughout the show today, we're going to get into some of the mental models he used about taking ideas from his mind and manifesting them, getting them out on paper. We're going to talk about some classics, like outcomes raiser. We're going to then kind of explore how he applied them as well, whether it's thinking about the problem before trying to solve it, the role of collaboration and, and mark, what is so great for someone who brought so much original thinking to the world that has had enormous impact.
What's so [00:07:00] beautiful is there's themes of persistence, hard work resilience. And I think this is again, signature moonshots, and all of this is in service of not just having wishful thinking. I'm going to say and admit that I've probably been a victim of wishful thinking more than most. I'm a bit of a, an optimist and always looking to build and create an always on the bright side of things.
But what you discover with mental models is you can take your energy, your tenacity, your curious in your interest, and you can make the thinking itself better by using some of these approaches of Einstein and what we're going to explore throughout this four part series on mental. Models. I mean, it's, it's really this is going to make the neurons, make the particles, the very atoms in [00:08:00] your mind, pop with energy because you don't have to work harder.
You can work smarter. I think that's the key here. Don't rely on wishful thinking, have the right mental models think things through properly. And it's just such an exciting thing. But before we launch off into all of the upcoming clips, mark, I feel like we have to kind of pay some homage to what Robert, a Dyke half what a, such a good Dutch name by the way.
He mentioned thought experiments and I think it's an opportune time for us to really explore this because this was one of the ways in which. Einstein could achieve so much, very, he asked questions, like what if, and this was like a fundamental way. He explored new and [00:09:00] original thinking. So mark, why don't we get into thought experiments a little bit.
I know you've prepared like a little breakdown on, on thought experiments. Let's kick it about and ask ourselves. Well, if this is the key to Einstein's thinking, is, is this how he defined relativity? Well, let's not get stuck in the science of Reddit relativity, but let's ask ourselves, well, what is a thought experiment in?
How might we use them in our day-to-day work? Yeah, it's really quite fun. Challenging yourself to really consider thought experiments because the truth is Mike, there are many, many different types. There's a huge variety. And we'll break these down in a second. And there are people all around the world who were used thought experiments.
Break down those, those challenges, you know, chess, grandmasters, we've got physicists, we've got business leaders and so on. But before we get into all that, Mike, let me try and paint you and our listeners a picture of what a thought experiment would be because fundamentally [00:10:00] a thought experiment is putting yourself or your mind or your consideration into a way that maybe you can't actually replicate in a physical way.
An experiment maybe in a laboratory would be beakers. It would be Bunsen burners. This is showing our listeners how much a memory I have of the days of when I was a scientist back at school. And it's all very physical, whereas where Einstein would practice a lot was in thought expense. He would imagine as rubber diagraphs broken down in that first clip workers on the top of the building, what if this happened, then this could be the result.
And a great example of Einstein's thought experiments is the following one that really helps him understand relativity. And that's where he imagined being able to physically chase a beam of light. So imagine a beam of light shooting out of your torch and you being able to run or fly, or at least propel yourself at the same speed to you as an onlooker or in this case, as [00:11:00] Einstein as the onlooker, who's moving at the same speed as the beam of light, that beam of lights not moving because he's moving at the same speed.
That's a wonderful demonstration, Mike of propelling his mind into a. Almost an atomic level without being able to physically do that. He can't move at the speed of light, but being able to think about it. Yes. Now this to me is the essence of a thought experiment. What happens is you entertain an idea that might seem impossible in real life.
And what you do is you entertain the idea of running alongside and running in front of light. Totally impossible. But the, the capacity to imagine that situation helps you see a problem or a situation from a different point of view, because we all except the current constraints and [00:12:00] none of us except Einstein at the time had really asked us, well, what happens if I run along side by light and let's see if I could catch it by doing so.
Huge breakthrough, but it was because he was prepared to do a thought experiment. He structured it and he wasn't caught up in that. Well, of course I can't run as fast as life. He just entertained what if and through doing so he had all these new insights and mark here's. The great news. Einstein really is one of the champions of the thought experiment, but I can tell you, it goes back earlier than him Galileo.
Did it even Greek philosophers in like four 30 BC have documented thought experiments. Isn't that amazing? There is this, you know, two millennia of humans [00:13:00] applying thought experiments and what's so great is today we're putting that in front of ourselves and going, how. We do it. And if you think mark, we live in a time where all of these new technologies are happening.
The introduction of the internet, the introduction of the microprocessor, the introduction of the iPhone, the smartphone. If you think about all of these things that are happening, you could apply thought experiments to the blockchain. You could even make it more simpler, just apply it to 5g. What happens when everybody has a hundred, a hundred Meg down, maybe a gig down in their pocket, what happens?
These thought experiments are fantastic in us, entertaining things which seem impossible. And that's where all the breakthroughs come. I believe thought experiments is a key. It's not the only, but it's a key model to key mental model for original thinking [00:14:00] for brave thinking. So now. If you think about thought experience, how on earth do we apply these things to our life?
Yeah. I mean, you've listed a number of huge heavyweight philosophers and scientists, but the key theme across all of those individuals, it's, it's less about the Blackboard and the chalk or the, the computer models with equations and so on. And instead it's creativity, isn't it? It's the creative way of thinking about it.
So, Mike, I mean the first area that I want to dig into is the next clip I'd like to play. And this is from a team called top thing. And they're discussing Einstein's ability to actually make that jump that we've just been discussing, using that original thinking of that creativity. How does he bring his thoughts into real life?
So this next clip we're going to hear from is about physical thoughts.
Okay,
so [00:15:00]
right.
Oh, my gosh, are we getting into some territory that I am just so into? So this idea of drawing your ideas really brings me to this great body of work that is called systems thinking or system design. I'm really into the smart, because you can actually visualize your ideas with systems thinking.
And I want to kind of share with you so. Basic templates that you can use for system thinking, you can draw all sorts of your ideas when you could, for example, focus on connectedness, how things connect, or you could do a different one, which is like parts of a whole, imagine something like a puzzle piece, you could do isolation and [00:16:00] analysis, or you could bring synthesis together and bring everything into one.
You could have linear or circular silos, emergence, isolation, relationship, and these are all ways you can actually visualize your ideas. So what I'm doing here is I'm saying, okay, we know that the practice is to visualize your ideas, but not all of us systems designers, illustrators, but there's actually, once again, there's a go-to set of tools that we can use almost.
And I'm not afraid to say it. There's almost templates that you can bear out your thinking in. And I think this is, this was really I don't want to oversell it. It was pretty profound when I found that you could actually draw your ideas. So, Mike, what do you think as I'm pitching you these ways of visualizing your ideas, your systems design, [00:17:00] how does this sound as, as kind of a practical way to bring your idea to life?
I'm very much a thinker who requires. Some sketching or some doodling to make sure I've got the idea in my mind. So I'll take lots of notes as, as well. We ran a meeting or a discussion. If I'm trying to understand the flow of a customer journey or the flow of an application or whatever it might be, I will, or even the flow of a conversation, maybe with a, with a colleague or a, or a customer, I will try and sketch it out so that I can, you know, cement it in my brain, but also I can explore how it might go.
I find that, although I may not be on the level of system thinking yet. And I'm very curious to really dig into that more as well. Thinking about the [00:18:00] journey from a visual perspective is very much where I try and get the most value. Out of my own preparation, you know, we've discussed writing tables of contents or skeleton decks the night before, or the week before you need to deliver something, because then it gives your brain enough time to percolate and to think about it.
And I wonder, Mike, would you say that there's a, there's a connection there with our practice of writing things down to reflect upon it, is that a form of, of system thinking, do you think? Well, what I think we're talking about whether you do a sketch or write down bullet points, what you are doing is transferring this sort of abstract nature of your thought and putting into something manifest.
And as soon as you do that, it forces you to get clearer in your thinking. So when you draw an idea, you could draw it as [00:19:00] an idea of the interconnectedness of things. Alternatively, maybe your idea is more about parts of a whole, those are two different ideas. So by the active writing, your thinking gets better through the act of drawing, your thinking gets better.
And all these are ways of making the idea manifest and what I think happens. And we alluded to it in the clip. I think we entertained notions in our ideas. We're like, oh, that could be an interesting idea. Or we really need something that fixes that. And it's like a fleeting thought, or it's like a notion that just sits there.
And sometimes it comes back every time you are working on something and it triggers this thought again. And I think. What happens a lot of the time is I think human beings in general think pretty well. They have these notions, [00:20:00] these abstract ideas. I think what we are doing is we're at this really exciting moment where Einstein is teaching us to turn it into something, to then work on it, revise, revise, Polish, Polish, Polish, and that's what he did so well.
I think most of us, I just having these loose notions that we don't even get to writing down, let alone draw. What do you think? Yeah, I think you're right. It's sometimes hard to actually commit it to paper when you're so caught up in the immediacy of something. And that's, you know, a challenge that we went through with Cal Newport, a world without email.
Sometimes it's very hard to, you know, only focus on. Or step away from the urgency of a brand new email. Oh my goodness. I must reply to it straight away when actually having something that's more system thinking approach where you can write it down or reflect upon it. I think the act of actually drawing or writing or sketching, or [00:21:00] even discussing perhaps helps you, what are those priorities and helps you simplify it?
The decision-making. Yeah, absolutely. And once you've got it written down, there's lots of really good tools. Let's say let's put this into the business world and you know, you have a new idea for a product or a business. You can write what we call the lean hypothesis. And that's a way of saying, Hey, this particular type of person has this sort of problem.
This is how they currently solve the problem. And it ain't great. I propose providing this solution to the problem. Yeah. I will know it's successful when I achieve these metrics. And now the interesting thing like that like what we call the lean hypothesis is it's just like a diagram or writing down some notes is that you can then come back to the, each of those different elements that I mentioned and start testing them, break them down and work out.
What part of your [00:22:00] hypothesis needs further work. It could be you've written your hypothesis out and you thought your customer was an early adopter, but actually it's more the early majority, you might say that the problem was a, B and C, but it turns out is, you know, D E and F and those variables are what you can actually work on.
And that's exactly what Einstein did. And mark, he did not get lost in all of the complexity of the world. Did he? I feel like he was able to bring such a beautiful, fundamental simplicity to how we. Yeah. And this next clip breaks that down for us, Mike, into an experiment or a way of thinking that perhaps some of our listeners have heard of before.
And this is a great demonstration of how Einstein could take something like atoms light speed of time and break it down into ways that he could, he could try and communicate, but also understand. And this next clip, [00:23:00] Mike is all about outcomes, razor.
Thanks.
Hmm. I, I cannot think of more appropriate advice for us here in 2021. Where, where Dale used in data notifications, emails, you name it, mark. I feel like coming down to this idea that often the simplest explanation, the simplest path is best. I mean, that is just timeless, timeless moonshot wisdom, right?
There is. Yeah. Yeah, it is. But it's so difficult. And Mike, you know, you tell me if you agree, it's so difficult to sometimes stop your mind from exacerbating things and you know, you sometimes find it. Okay, well maybe it is like, let's, let's imagine he's a famous or comes razor example. Mike, if you heard the sound of hooves hoof beads coming down your [00:24:00] street.
Do you imagine it's a horse or do you manage, imagine it's a zebra more likely is that it will probably be a horse. I mean, mentally seeing horses running around the streets of Sydney is pretty rare nowadays anyway, but you can see the difference is they're going to be a zebra. Is it going to be something a little bit more expected?
Like a horse? That for me is quite challenging if I'm problem-solving during the day, because sometimes my mind will exacerbate things and it'll assume the worst. So this outcomes raiser was a key tool for Albert Einstein when he was doing the theory of special relativity. And when he was dealing with something so complex, his mantra was everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simple.
So, what he's saying here is don't dumb. The I do down just make it as essential, as fundamental, as simple as [00:25:00] possible, because that's the only way you can apply your mental activity to the key challenge. Otherwise, if you make complexity, they're all distractions from the problem at hand. And I think this stripping things back to their simplest form possible.
I feel like this is advice that we can all offer and it wasn't only, you know, the crazy thing is it's not any Einstein. That's used this Stephen Hawking and used on a science it's being used on governance. You know, there are so many different people that have celebrated this idea of Ockham's razor as a way of getting to the fundamentals.
So you spend most of your time on stuff. That matters. I, it feels good. That's a good idea right there. Yeah. That's so handy. So, so handy or comes Rosa. So when [00:26:00] you when you attempt mark to make things as simple as possible, but not simpler, does that look when you're trying to like, solve a problem and not get kind of distracted by all of that complexity and noise around the problem?
Yeah. I think it's trying to tear it back to the absolute essential items, you know, bringing the problem right back to, okay, well, what are we actually trying to do here? What are we trying to accomplish and what has led us perhaps to this situation? Okay. Well, let's see whether we can backtrack. Let's see what we can strip out.
That might be. Making this more complicated than it needs to be, because we're all trying to get to maybe one destination what's currently blocking it and maybe I'll use something like the previous clip diagramming or writing it down or more likely [00:27:00] nowadays pick up the phone and give somebody a call to see whether it's an issue that they're perhaps bringing into the equation.
Yeah, I'm totally with you. I think that where I would go when I think about stripping things back is like I tried to, and I tried to use some of the thinking from a different model, which is called first principles which is really just getting down to. The truths that never change, right. When looking at this problem, the truth is that every day the sun will shine.
Okay. If you're in Sydney every day is going to be somewhere between mild and hot, right? These are sort of truths that, you know are consistent. And so what you want to do when you're kind of thinking of Ockham's razor is not get caught up in the ifs, buts and maybes with outcomes raiser. It's another way of saying that is don't get caught on the [00:28:00]what we call the edge cases, where under very unusual circumstances, the situation changes.
What you want to do is get. The sh I try and get to the shortest statement of the things that I know are the facts, the data. I don't put any analysis on it. I don't do any recommendation. I go, here are the five facts that I know to be true. Now, once you have, let's say it's five or three, it doesn't matter.
Let's say you've got your five facts. All right. And you're trying to apply the simplest reason or the simplest path is often the best is then what you do is you put those sets of data into different situations. So I, I quite like to have some tension between two possibilities. So I've got the same facts and it could be one of two things.
And I always try and pick things that are quite opposite. Right. So for example, Let's say were [00:29:00] solving. The reason that a product is not performing well, is it either a that we don't get enough people to the product or B it might be that the product doesn't do a good job when we get them. So then I would build the facts and apply these two approaches and test and test and test until the simplest.
Answer emerges. So by deliberately making the facts, which which of the two scenarios that I just mentioned, did the facts support the best, which seems simplest, which makes common sense. Cause at a certain point you can overthink it or get caught in these like edge cases. What is the simplest explanation for the five facts you've got?
Is it this one? Is it a, or is it B and by making those quite different, you should start to see a pattern emerge and you will sort of [00:30:00] migrate it's a bit like magnetism, you start to like, yeah, I think the problem is we just don't simply have enough customers. That's the product problem, or maybe it takes you the other way.
But I think having. This very simple set of facts and then taking two very different possible hypothesis and applying it to those facts will often give you the simplest, the most straightforward answer. And I think he just got to work through it. Don't you mark? You can't just do it once. I think you really got to just be rigorous in going through those simple foundational thoughts that build up your, your larger idea.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, another build on that is a demonstration of the, the very nature of mental models they are designed to. Interlock on, they then work with Ockham's razor and another in order to try and find that maybe simpler explanation or the one that's most relevant for you. And I think [00:31:00] that's a great, what you've just described.
There is a great almost journey in demonstrating that you can pull inspiration or guidance. Maybe there's a better word from these different mental models and apply them to any problem that you might have in order to find the best way to move forward. I think that's a nice demonstration there. Yeah. So let's, let's kind of bring it all together.
This thinking around the mental models that made Einstein so successful. And so firstly, obviously the thought experiment, he was asking the what if, and it didn't matter if he was, you know, leaping tall buildings in a single bound or chasing the light he was able to do these thought experiments and then secondly, He really encourages us to manifest ideas, write them down, illustrate them and make sure show you that you get out of your head and start actually having some money.
I think that you can test and refine. And then lastly, as we [00:32:00] just finished up on make it simple, like don't make the idea overly simple, but make it as simple as possible. Get it to the essential key facts. And that is a path to actually getting what's in your mind onto paper and applying it in the room.
Mark. Okay. Three big thoughts. It's like, it's pretty big workout. This Ironstone show isn't it. Well, yeah, I mean, it's demonstrating to me how I can try and replicate some of these approaches that Arnstein himself followed rigorously in order to solve his problems. And look, if he can, if he can use these to solve light time.
I think I can add to it as I think I can try and use them as well for my problems. Fantastic. Well, you know, mark, one of the other things we need in life is motivation [00:33:00] is such a fundamental thing in life. And I think it's time that we remind our audience that if they become a member. Of moonshots, which they can do@moonshots.io.
They can listen to our members. Only content out master class in motivation is now live and online. And all you have to do is become a member and you can listen to it. We published a little teaser a few days ago before this show, but mark, there is so much more on offer. If you become a man. That's right.
If you become a member, you can pop along to www moonshots.io and click on our member section, sign up. And not only will you get a brand new exclusive subscriber, only episode of the moonshots master series show. You'll also get access to reading lists, to downloadable frameworks, questions, and real [00:34:00] elements that will help you become the best version of yourself through the practice of these, these big problems and all these big themes, such as motivation, Mike, that we've tried to boil down through the act of learning out loud on the moonshot show.
Yeah, absolutely. And the, the thing I want to invite you, all of our listeners to all you moon shutters, who are learning out loud with us. Come on and join in. We can take this so much further. We've done a 137 shows. That's why we've created the master series. And that's also why we feel that we've got something that is so good.
We want to invite you to become a remember and to contribute to this movement that we have 30,000 people listen to our show. Let's join together and let's learn out loud because we've done so many shows. We're able to pull together. Not only a definitive show like we are today on [00:35:00] Einstein, but we are able to bring shows to you on motivation.
First principles, teamwork, all these big ideas, where we have decoded, the secret sauce, the pattern that we see across all of these superstars, these creators, these artists, these entrepreneurs. So come on, join us@moonshots.io. It's literally just one. Dollar a week and that's your chance to contribute because, Hey, we are doing all of this for you guys.
You can get the moonshots podcast for free anywhere. Anytime, any place, all we're asking is for you to join up and you'll get so much value out of becoming a member to head to moonshots.io, become a member, and you'll get access to unlocking your motivation through our first master series. And now our next one will be on first principles, which mark, by the way, gets me back to this whole idea of mental [00:36:00] models.
Doesn't it? It does, you know, if we can boil something down to the initial or original concepts, you know, the DNA, the atom level, as long as Stan would say, then that's the first principle. So I can't wait to begin episode two of the masters, the series, or some joined us listens. Absolutely. Come join us. On the theme of coming together and being better together.
I think it's time to get back to Einstein and talk about collaboration. And it's not only that, it's the fact that actually Einstein worked with others, helped others. And in turn, they helped him. In fact, his way of thinking differently, came down to this central thought that he's going to explain to us right now.
Okay.
okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So
yes.
Isn't that a powerful reminder, [00:37:00] Mike, that yes, all of these are all of these great thoughts that Einstein had. You know, he was this individual who's, you know associated with so much incredible thinking. He often relied on the collaboration input and even debates like with Neil's Baum, the Einstein and Bohr debates are pretty well known because of their impact on, on physics and the philosophy of science just through debate, you know, this collaboration, whether it's, Hey, can you help me figure out this equation?
Or, Hey, I disagree with you. Let's brainstorm this together. That's just a great reminder that Einstein. Is using these principles that you and I use and that our listeners use teamwork, collaboration by working with one another, we can better, our ideas, maybe even challenge our assumptions now [00:38:00] subjectivity in order to make things better.
I think that's just a real great reminder of the impact of some of these things that we sort of maybe take for granted, or maybe we dismiss. And when you hear that somebody like Einstein, where you was using them, that's a great reminder that we can revisit them. Well, I would go as far as saying, when you say onsite, I, my first thought is not collaboration.
Not at all. I mean, to me, this is a bit of a surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a surprise because you'd assumed it was just Einstein with his, with his crazy hair. Exactly. But by himself, and this is so powerful because then we can take Einstein was using collaboration and then go back and look it out. Our series of work on all of these moonshot is whether you, whether you think about the collaborative nature of Richard Branson or Joe Rogan, what you start to see is that [00:39:00] collaboration is not essential for your thinking.
You know, life is a team sport as Patrick Lencioni said so well when we, when we studied him on the show. So mark, what I'm proposing to you here is, you know, people have this vision of Einstein being in a tower, coming up with these great ideas. No, once again, we see collaboration and teamwork as being an essential theme for anyone embarking on a moonshot, anyone trying to make work that matters to be the best version of themselves.
Collaboration is key. I mean, this is like. Confirmation number 137, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's just confirming every single time. Go and work with your team, go and collaborate in order to push your thinking forward. And it's such a joy to hear that Einstein would do the same thing. Like, and I'm going to say to you this next clip, this next thought [00:40:00] once again is a huge moonshots theme.
Why don't you kick it off for a smile? Yeah. If collaboration is something that Einstein would use in order to get to a conclusion, this next behavior is so valuable and very orientated around what made we suspected or assumed or associated with Einstein himself. And this is the idea of persistence. So this next clip we're going to hear about is Einstein's persistence and sustained thinking.
Don't surrender. Oh my gosh. There are so many ways to take this mark. I'm my mind is spinning. First of all, no problem. Cursor can sustain the assault of sustaining thinking. How good is that as a quote that, I mean, that, that you just can feel the ferocious intensity of which Einstein spent on his ideas.
He assaulted them and broke them until he had the solution, right? [00:41:00] Yeah. Yeah. He could just go out with his brain, with his collaboration and go and break down these things that seemed absolutely impossible. Yeah. Now I want to build on this, that, that had, that had a lot from this idea of Einstein applying both sustained thinking and persistence to the problems he worked on.
So I want to show you the interconnectedness of the work of Einstein with two very unusual cats. I only imagine these three people, you got Einstein white for it, Michael Jordan, and then Cal Newport. And I think you might have something very special. It's the ultimate moonshots conference, right? So check this out.
So the interconnectedness between these three gentlemen, yet the very different practices they have tell us something big about how [00:42:00] to be successful, how to be fulfilled in the things that we do, how to make a contribution. Because Michael Jordan, he was assaulting the basketball court. He was the first to training, the last to leave.
And Cal Newport has been so prolific in this laser, like focus and doing the deep work. And what we see with Einstein is he took the same rules, the same playbook that Jordan and Newport have. And we can see that he did a two and this is such a big clue on how we can achieve our moonshots too. All right, mark.
I know you're imagining Einstein, Jordan Newport, they're all in the same room. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, first of all, it would be a pretty unusual setup. And I would definitely I'd want to be there, but you're right. That. [00:43:00] Around how they approach that. I mean, obviously all three of them are in completely different fields and categorizations of, of what they do.
But I think they'd have a shared conversation around this, this idea of focus and you're right. Calling out Cal Newport with our previous series with world without email show number 1 35, as well as our Cal action in show 1 36, where we broke down some of his work on digital minimalism, but also deep work that's really coming through.
As we dig into Einstein, isn't it, his ability to rather than say, oh, this is a bit hard. I'm going to distract myself as we might be distracted by nowadays with email social media. And instead, just thinking, I'm going to crack this, I'm going to do it. I will. Understand how to break this down and get over it.
And just by focusing, working really hard at the problem, I will become the best. And you're [00:44:00] right. That's exactly what Jordan does. He practices, he stays behind. He becomes the best guy on the court. He does more than statement. It's an assault of his focus. I mean, this is why this quote is so good. This sustained assault, right?
This constant assault of sustain focus, thinking deep work day after day, week after week, it is to me, mark, the reason that there's so much truth in this, because few people let's just take work and our careers people work hard and they meet their deliverables and their. But truly mastering their domain.
How many people really, we know how things work, how many people have really put in the really hard, the extra effort, how many people were like write down [00:45:00] their notes thoroughly and completely how many people put in Jordan, like time to master. And I think there's even this little nudge in this show that, you know, it's almost, yeah, it's like 1% talent, 99% perspiration.
What we see in Kao and Michael Jordan and what we're learning today is Einstein simply put in the effort. He worked harder. So once again, if we want to dream big, you got to work big. Yeah. And, and for the listeners who are thinking, okay, well, how can I get the motivation to get this level of sustained thinking and persistence of cracking a problem?
We dig into this Mike in our first episode of the master series, don't we, some of the recommendations with, with Gary and the [00:46:00] fact that Gary V and the fact that nobody really gets very far without that hard work. And that's, that's a real eye-opener, isn't it? I think a lot of us maybe take things for granted, or maybe not takes things for granted, but assume, Hey, I should have achieved this by now, but to challenge yourself and think, okay, what am I still working as hard as I possibly can?
And we are still applying. We have a great set of motivational questions to trigger. What motivates you and to spark you into action. We have a full breakdown of intrinsic motivators, which are the best ones. And we even have the self determination theory, the heart of the science of motivation.
We've broken that down. It's all in the master series. Just go to moonshots.io, become a member, and you can listen to it right now. But if I want to get motivated, there's somebody that gets a lot of our listeners. It's [00:47:00] Ilan Musk, isn't it, Matt. Yeah, it is in this final clip to round us all the way home with Albert Einstein and problem solving is Mr.
Elon Musk. And it's a pretty interesting revealing clip Mike on the power of physics that he's had on in his work. So this final clip is from Elon Musk and how we shouldn't rely on wishful thinking. Yeah.
Yeah. Wishful thinking. I got to say, we have broken down lots of different ways to avoid wishful thinking, you know, mark, and I cannot tell you how many times I've started on a project. Sometimes even a business with way too much wishful thinking. And it caused me a lot drama further on so there's no shortcuts that you can take.
You can't just guess, can you, you've got to put in the work. And it's not like a hit and hope thing, you know, you've got to know your stuff, don't you, you got to know your stuff. And [00:48:00] also you've got to go into it, trying to remove subjectivity. You know, if you're about to begin a project and it becomes a little bit hard instead of trying to flee from it, instead of trying to reject it or do something else or ignore it completely instead, throwing yourself via hard work and discipline.
That's how you're going to crack it and how you're acting. Not only improving that project, but also learning how to improve yourself, I think. Yeah, totally. Mike, what, you know, we've had the joy of diving into Einstein and I, for me, it's just been, there's been a lot of surprises here. I mean, it just shows you how much I just assumed about Einstein or how little I actually truly knew about him.
And I'm interested to know, like how, how have you found his approach? Have you found it accessible or is it a bit confusing? I mean, where are you on trying to bring [00:49:00] a little bit of Einstein into your day? I think it's been a perfect start to our mental models series because it's been quite surprising.
Like you say. I think my association with Einstein was always this incredible brain who was miles beyond. Me and actually felt quite inaccessible, obviously his work and his affect and his foundation that he's left on the world is nearly unsurpassed perhaps, but I never really dug into how he got there before the show.
And I think, yeah, and I think the, the collaboration, you know, that was certainly a big surprise because I think my assumption was with all scientists, they just sit in their room and crack it with their calculators and blackboards, but the truth is they collaborate and that was quite revealing. But for me, Mike, actually, what really captured me is that first clip that then had a theme throughout all of the rest, which was imagination and [00:50:00] creativity.
If there's one thing that Einstein kind of shows us, it's thinking about a problem without judgment, and thinking about a problem from a creative angle that allows you to think from different points of view is the most valuable way of trying to solve. It is. And it's exciting to know that, you know, we can all have maybe a little Einstein moment in our day if we just pick up on outcomes, raiser thought experiment and all the things that we mentioned in the show today.
So if you are interested in following up on any of those head of a dementia study, we have all of the show notes available, all the links, all sorts of good stuff. And certainly we've talked about Cal Newport, Michael Jordan. We've done shows on all of those guys, so you can check them out at moonshot. Dot IO.
Oh, mark. I'm a little exhausted after this show. Well, Mike don't be too because we have some absolute powerhouses coming up in the rest of the [00:51:00] mental models series. So I hope you're feeling enlivened rather than too tired. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, mark, thank you to you. Thank you for all the help breaking this down, learning out loud together, and thank you to you, our listeners, wherever you are, and all four corners of the globe.
It has been a joy to do show 137 on Albert Einstein and to put our minds to how our minds think. And it started with this idea of how much more important imagination is than knowledge itself. And we learned that the key thing that Einstein did is the thought experiment. To explore often impossible situations and predict their implications and outcomes.
Then he called us to our pens, to our paper, to draw, to write, to bring our thoughts out of their mind and into the world. And to remember that the simplest explanation is often the best [00:52:00] yes. Outcomes raiser and the way he did it. Wow. It was all about collaboration cause he knew Einstein knew we were better together and he had some rules.
Staying power. He had the persistence, he had the ability to assault the ideas that's so the problems until they became solutions and he never, ever relied on wishful thinking, he was the arch enemy of guessing because he was about knowing and listeners. Moonshot is all of you who are listening right now.
YouTube can have your Einstein moment. If you think better think like Einstein, these will help you do work that matters. And remember that no problem can survive the assault of sustained thinking. So go out there, apply yourself, be the best version of yourself and YouTube can be like Einstein. All right.
That's it for the moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.