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Sean Sidders, Founder of Mallard Agency, sits down with other Founders & CEOs from across Dallas-Fort Worth to discuss the ups and downs of business leadership. These honest, authentic, and practical discussions will leave you with tangible insights that will leave you feeling inspired, equipped, and encouraged.
[00:00:00] Hey everyone. Thanks so much for joining another episode of Founders in Flight. I'm excited to introduce you to Brandon Thornton today. He's a part of a family business that's been around for 70, 80 years, uh, and there's so much value from our conversation today. We talk about everything from just the different stages of what it's like to be a part of a family business, everything from his grandfather starting it, to his parents being a part of it, now him being a part of it, and now they're welcoming additional partners into the business.
Uh, we had a, a chance to chat about, you know, the difficulties of managing a team, the difficulties of assembling a team, the different stages of what it's like to be a founder, especially with partners. I'm excited for you to listen
Brandon, uh, so excited that you're, uh, that you're able to join us today here in the studio. Thanks so much for taking the time, uh, to be here. You and I don't know each other all that well, [00:01:00] but, uh, we've been in each other's kind of pseudo networks here for a little bit, and excited to chat with you for the next hour or so.
Um, do you mind just telling us a little bit about who you are, what your story is, how you got here, and then we can jump on from there? Absolutely, yeah. I'm the third generation of a 76-year-old accounting firm that my grandfather started- Wow ... after he came home from World War II. So he got started as a licensed tax preparer in the state of Texas before there was a CPA board.
Hm. Um, and then when my grandmother wanted to come join him in the business because she wanted to leave education, she came and became, uh, the th- third or fourth female enrolled agent in the state of Texas. Uh, in the '80s when they wanted to get out, my parents took over, and then when they subsequently separated or, you know, split ways, then my father has a firm in Decatur now, and now I have a firm in Hurst that's just a continuation on what they've built.
Um, so my mom ran it by herself for 35 years- Wow ... and then my wife started working with her, and I was- A true family [00:02:00] business. Well, and I, I was definitely taking the scenic tour. So, uh, when I was in college, I was a kines major and, um, with a minor in psychology and health promotion, and expected to kind of go down that path.
Okay. And life led me in a different direction, so I wound up in oil and gas for five and a half years- Hm ... until, uh, we found out our first daughter was coming. Um, and then between me and my brother, my brother was a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force and commander of a fighter, fighter squadron, so he didn't really have a choice.
I did. So I made the, um, decision to come home at that point to be home with my family. Hm. At the same time, we also had family friends that were also clients that passed unexpectedly. Mm. And it showed us that we didn't have a plan of continuity for something that was at that point 64, 65 years old, and we needed to figure out what that was gonna look like.
Mm. So we bought the business from my mom and took over a portion of the business that was to sustain my wife and I, and at that point it was okay. It wasn't, you know, a decent living, but, uh, [00:03:00] to make sure we could make ends meet, I enrolled in fire academy, 'cause that's what I was gonna do before I went to oil and gas, and it was basically left down to the decision between, you know, do you want a 30% chance of a job at the end of like a six-week period, or do you want 100% paycheck next week?
And on Monday I was on an oil field location. Mm. Um, but came home and in the 15 weeks I was in fire academy just kind of really put some purpose to it, and was intentional with who I was talking to, what I was looking for. So the portion that was taking care of my wife and I went from five clients to 35, and then it's kind of continued from there.
So, you know, comparatively to where we started, we were at probably 300 clients or so and a handful of bookkeeping clients. Now we do... We'll probably do about 1,300 tax returns this year. Wow. And- I don't envy that. Yeah. Nobody really does. Well, that's where, you know, along the way, um, for me, it became one of those things where I didn't want to just be a number cruncher.
Um, I wanted to bring more value than that. [00:04:00] So the decision basically boiled down to just that, is that it was volume or vol- or value. And when I started thinking about how I could bring more value into it, it was what other complementary areas could I be working with people that would help them through their business journey to learn how, um, to effectively utilize the tax and the finances to make- quality decisions for the betterment of their businesses.
Um, so started off in some, you know, FP&A work, and projections, and analytics. And went into comptroller offerings and fractional CFO portions. Um, and then that finally led into family office service. So I got to go drink from the fire hose of all the subject matter experts and specialists that do all of the various things for people in the world of tax mitigation, investments, legacy estate, uh, exit planning, um, asset protection, all the fun little bits and pieces that go along with success in business.
Um, [00:05:00] and then from there, that led into learning about alternative investments, and then finally to where I am now, where, um, I basically help people that feel like they're paying too much in tax figure out unique ways that they may or may not have heard of before to mitigate that and pay what they want to pay in tax, and then execute other portions of their plan.
Hmm. Wow. A- an amazing story. It seems like you've been on a, a roller coaster, but eventually landed in a place where you're, you're adding a lot of value and bringing a lot of purpose. And, um, I'm excited to dive even more, uh, into each of those different, uh, parts of your journey. Um, so how many people are on your team right now?
Right now there's about nine. Yeah. Um, but then we also have, uh, between the two partners that I've brought on recently and myself, we're all serial networkers, so, um- ... between the, the, the combination of our networks and the internal team, then we've got a number of people that we work through, uh, consultancy and, you know, uh, strategic partnership to make sure that everybody's [00:06:00] getting where they want to go and getting service to the level that we want them to get service to.
So it's been pretty fun. And, and what is your role? You, you, uh, I'll, I'll kind of ask about the partners here in a second, but what is your role in the business day-to-day? You're here on this podcast right now, so I would imagine there's some components- Yes ... attached to that. But also it sounds like some client service and kind of w- give me, paint, paint the picture for what, what you're involved in.
Uh, the way I always describe it to everyone, especially now, is that I am of more value and service to the clients that we work with and to the business in front of a camera and a microphone than I am in front of a keyboard and a mouse. So, um, my whole position now that the partners have come in and kind of taken over operations and, you know, other portions of it is business development and client acquisition.
Mm-hmm. And then my main focal specialty is in tax strategy. So- Yeah ... all the fun, unique ways that we tell people that they don't have to pay the government is where I get to play the most, which is the most fun for me, so. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, do you, so you just brought on two partners [00:07:00] you said. Mm-hmm.
When did that happen? They came on, we started the conversation really heavily in October. Okay. Um- So re- really recent ... put everything in... Yes. Mm. Put everything on paper in December and kicked it off in January, so. Wow. Amazing. Um... What led to that decision? I mean, that's a big question. Being the one wearing many hats.
Yeah. Um, and knowing that, you know, if eventually if you spin enough plates, eventually they're gonna start to fall somewhere. Mm. Um, and we've had, you know, we've had our fair share of setbacks just like any other business owner, um, between decisions that we made or putting faith in the wrong people or things like that along the way that, um, I built a relationship with these professionals that, um...
And built friendships with them to the point that, you know, it was- gonna happen one way or another that we were gonna work together, whether it was directly or indirectly. Um, but for what we were all pursuing and who we were all looking to work with and what we were all looking to accomplish as we go into [00:08:00] the later portions of our life, um, it just made sense 'cause- Mm
and the one saving grace that I have with it is that all three of us are in agreeance that the friendship's more important than the business. So if it's never not working out or we don't feel like it's worth continuing, then we'd rather salvage the friendship than the business, and we'll do what we need to do.
Yeah. That's great. Um, were you fearful of pot- of partnership before you made that decision? Um, I just have talked to enough people who have gone through either starting a business with partners, whether it be one, two, three, you go down the list, or, um, people who'd, who've done what you've done, which is bringing partners while you're already, you know, in the midst of, of it all.
Uh, was there any fear there? Oh, absolutely. Um- Talk to me about it. Well, I mean, I've been approached in the past when the timing was completely wrong- Mm ... um, with an offer for, you know, somebody to come in and put a number [00:09:00] on it and buy an equity position. But at that point it was a s- you know, 70-year-old family business that I had just started a new service offering that we had no idea where that was gonna land or what that was gonna do for us.
Mm-hmm. To have somebody come in and put a price point on it at that point in time was just, in my opinion, foolhardy. Mm. Um, and then there was a lot of, you know, concern 'cause I mean, especially when you bring on two partners and everything's a f- a fair split, then I'm the minority now. So, um, there's always the fear of, you know, what happens if I, you know, get real sideways with somebody and they don't want me anymore.
Mm. Um, but that's where, you know, all along the way we've had kind of real open communication about- Mm ... you know, what it means to us and what we wanna do with it. Um, I think the biggest concern was for me was my mom did this by herself for 35 years. She works with me every single day. And so walking in the other room and, you know, looking her in the eye when I've got two new partners running around that, you know, own, you know, [00:10:00] the majority of the business, um, was gonna be kind of a hard sell.
Um, but I think once she got to meet them and saw the value that they brought into the business outside of what I was capable of, um, she kinda saw what the point of it was. Mm. And now she's to the point where she agrees with the decision. Um, there were some hard decisions to make when we, we got to that point.
Uh, we've, you know, transitioned some people around, you know, made some hard decisions. Um, for, but for the most part it's been for the positive, and she's- She and everybody else that we w- have in the office right now have kind of enjoyed the new direction that everything's going because we're, you know, refining workflows, fixing policy and procedure, changing how we handle clients and onboard.
We're making better offers. We're pricing with, accordingly with the value that we offer. Um, 'cause when I took over, my mom's favorite number was 75, so- ... [00:11:00] it was $75 a month for bookkeeping and $75 for tax return, and- Whoa. When I... Yeah. Well, she only had to worry about herself. But when I came in and I was, I looked at the, you know, national surveys they used to put out for our industry, I was like, "We are in the bottom 10%.
We definitely can't be there." Right. I don't, I don't expect to be in the top 10- Yeah ... but I definitely don't want to be in the bottom 10. So shifted things around so that we were at least commensurate with the, the offerings that we make and the level of service that I feel like we provide. Um, and it's allowed for us to make some more easy decisions along the way as we got to certain points.
Mm-hmm. So. Yeah. Um, but as far as the fear aspect of it, I mean I think the best part about it was that I had built such a close friendship with them first, because we started building and running a business to business focused networking group first. We were all on the leadership board together, kind of got to know each [00:12:00] other, how we think, how we work, how we process.
And knowing where my weaknesses were, I could see where those strengths lied in them, and then it kind of made sense for us to sit down and have a, a deeper conversation about it. Hmm. That's really good. Now, your, um, your role in the business, as you mentioned, uh, you, you've kind of highlighted that it's shifted recently, uh, it seems, into being a little bit more on the business development and the marketing side of things- Mm-hmm
um, which, uh, I resonate with, and also talk to a lot of, um, a lot of founders who are kind of in, like, that similar stage, who are maybe getting to a place to where they have a leadership team developed, or they have peop- or they have operators in place to provide the service or develop the product or whatever it might be.
Um, since you're so fresh, I'm just interested to capitalize on- Yeah ... on what, what your- where your head space is at. But why do you think it's important to have somebody, um, ever present in the [00:13:00] marketplace talking about how you do business, what you do? Um, you know, talk to me about your, your thought process with all of that.
Well, for us, it's that we've refined what our ideal client looks like. Hmm. Um, so over time, it was basically the typical pitfall of a new business owner, which is that if they want it and you can offer it, you take it. And sometimes that's good, and sometimes it's really bad. Um, so we've definitely kissed some frogs along the way, um, and learned the lessons that went along with that.
But, uh, now that we've kind of refined it down to where we feel like our differentiating factors come in, um, my favorite compliment to get when I sit down and talk with somebody is that I'm not like any other accountant they've ever spoken with. Hmm. And I take it as a compliment, because, you know, they're usually pretty stuffy guys.
Hmm. Um, but for us it was we made the mistake of building from the bottom up- Hmm ... and instead of from the top down. And that's where, [00:14:00] um, again, being able to bring in partners that had those strengths already in place, and then bring in complementary staff instead of people to groom into complementary staff was really, really vital for us.
Hmm. Um, but, uh- Why do you think building from the, the bottom up was so hard? Well, for us, it was that we took people that were close family friends in to work with us, which number one, that creates a whole other issue. Uh, but aside from that, it was you can't build someone into someone with desire or drive or, um that will treat it the way that you would treat it.
Um, you can teach them how to do the work, and if you're real lucky, you can get them to where they can do a lot of the work. Mm. And if you're not, then they can do portions of it, and then you're still stuck doing portions of it. Mm. So for me, [00:15:00] it's now knowing what, what we're working with with the team that we have now, um, and what we're capable of, it was the difference between having faith that when I go do business development or I bring in a new client or a new prospect and they wanna move forward, then I can turn around and hand it off- Mm
and know that they're gonna be serviced just like I would, when previously there were concerns there. Mm. Um, you know, are they gonna do it? Are they gonna drop fall short? Are they gonna let it sit? You know, all the little things that creep up in the back of your mind about why you don't wanna let something like that happen were happening, and it was because, you know, they didn't drink the Kool-Aid, for lack of another, you know, a better- Yeah
uh, explanation. They weren't bought in. They didn't really... When we made the transition to what we were pursuing, I don't feel like they- Mm ... bought into the new mission and direction that we were going, because they just essentially wanted to come in and work and go home- Mm ... and they didn't want to push it to the level that [00:16:00] we do.
Mm. So, um, that's where I think p- putting faith in the wrong people came in. So- Mm. Yeah ... um. Well, I think a lot of people who are in situations with a team size that you have, um, and uh, I once again resonate with this a ton, that it's really hard to find people who take it as seriously as you do, um, not just on the client service, but on the internal culture building and, um, on the, the processes of keeping, I mean, as simple as keeping files organized and, you know, the attention to detail that we as founders really feel and, um, almost do inherently because we care so much about it.
I think the one thing that I've been really just thinking about and been encouraged by is, um, the fact that no one will ever care as much as me about my business, yet there's still, uh, there's, there's still people out there who will attach themselves to my vision [00:17:00] and care deeply. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that the difference there is, of course, that I will always care the most, but I am currently surrounded by a team that cares deeply, and I think that that's what I, that's what I need to ask for, is a team that really is going to, um, n- not just show up every day, but show up every day with this, um, level of intention and, and they, they're bought into what my vision is at the, as the entrepreneur.
I think early on I was a little bit afraid... Our business is five years old, and- Mm ... early on I was afraid to Um, allow for my vision to be the predominant vision in the business 'cause it felt selfish a little bit. It felt as though, wait a second, shouldn't I be letting my team help me define this? And I'm, I'm, you know, somebody who cares a lot about people and all those things.
And so I think that got me into a lot of trouble because that's a lot of opinions to be welcoming in. And, uh, and so, um, I think growing in that and really, uh, having there be this kind of [00:18:00] singular vision from, from the visionary, um, has been really helpful, and then asking for people to attach themselves to it.
Yeah, that was the kind of the similar downfall that I had initially, was, um, leading with my heart and not my mind. And my biggest thing is I want everything to be a collaborative kind of team aspect. So I would open it up to input and then rely too much on that input when it probably wasn't the best input.
Mm. Because, like you said, they weren't bought in. Um, and for me, it's... I think it's the typical founder downfall of not feeling like you're imposing your will on the people that are there to help you. Mm. Um, so I've never thrown my, you know, title around. I never throw around that I... You know, other than jokingly.
I don't throw around that I'm the boss or the owner or anything like that 'cause it's pointless. Mm. They're people. I'm a person. I'm gonna treat everybody the same, [00:19:00] and I do the same thing with the clients is that it doesn't matter how many zeros are on your tax return, you know, you're the same person- Mm
when you walk out of this place that you were when you walked in. Um, but for me it was Exactly that, is that they didn't have the desire, I think is what it is. Um, 'cause I can deal with somebody not having the ability. Hmm. You can build ability. Hmm. But you cannot build drive or work ethic or desire- Hmm.
That's a good way of saying it ... into somebody, no matter how hard you push them. Hmm. And that's where I think the downfall was, is that they wanted, um, for lack of a better term, they were riding it to just collect a paycheck and go home. Hmm. Totally. What is something that you're currently trying to grow in for yourself?
Um, you're, um, uh, I think that one of the things that when we talk about team, we can talk about how do we grow our team and how do we help to encourage them to professionally develop, and then all of a sudden we realize that, wait a [00:20:00] second, we're also people who need to be developed. Um, you know, whether that be in leadership or, uh, in a particular skill set or, um, delegation or whatever it might be.
What, what is something that you're currently navigating as it relates to your own development separate from your team? Um, and this is where I'll ... I defer to something that my client, my partner- ... taught me when I first met him, is that, um, guard your calendar like your life depends on it. Hmm. And what I mean by that for my situation is that I came home to be with my kids, but for the last 10 years I've had to pour so much into this because of certain setbacks or certain growth spurts or things like that, that I haven't been able to create the time that I was really desiring- Hmm
to be. I'm home and I'm present, and I get to see all the big, important things that I was meant to be here for, but I'm still pouring more into it than I really want to- Hmm ... at times. Hmm. Um, so for me it's, um, especially with the team we have now, creating that [00:21:00] time to go enjoy what we've done to this point, and I think that's a big part of everybody's kind of business journey is, um, get to where you're working on it, not in it.
Hmm. Totally. And, uh, I'm finally in that position going into this year, and it's only gonna kind of go up from here with what we're looking at, um- But now it's to the point where with the clients we pick up and the, the things we're looking to do, then I just get to take them in the car with me. So it's gonna be kind of fun to see what happens.
Do you have any kids? I have two daughters. Okay. Me too. Uh, how old? Nine and three. Okay. I have, uh, four and a half and almost one. Um, so maybe now I'll just shift the conversation and ask you for parenting advice. Yeah. Well, for us, we waited until around the first one could definitively tell us if she did or did not want a little brother or sister.
Yeah. And then, uh, gave ourselves a small window- Mm ... where if it didn't happen by then, then, you [00:22:00] know, we can't have a tax season baby. So- ... um, the cutoff was Mother's Day. Ah. So our Mother's Day gift to each other four years ago was number two was coming. Okay. There you go. And, uh, I actually made it all nine months.
Mm. Did not know if we were having a boy or girl. Wow. Um, and then when she was finally born, they kind of just laid her on my wife, and I was like, "What?" They're like, "Oh, you can look." I was like, "Okay, it's a girl." Yeah. So we have Lucy and Lena. We have the light and the moon. Oh, man, that's awesome. Um, I speak from personal experience when I know how difficult it is to, um, be, be physically president and, present and not mentally present with my family, uh, in building a business in particular.
And I feel like, I mean, I think every single founder I talk to goes through that at one stage or another, and if they don't, then they're Superman and I need to talk to them more. Um, but, you know, um, what would you say to somebody [00:23:00] who is in the midst of that fight right now, um, knowing that you and I are both kind of really working on it and coming out the other side?
What would you say to somebody who is hearing this and being like, "Whoa, that's me"? Uh, how would you encourage them? For me, I have a unique perspective on it because I'm currently working in the industry I watched my parents work themselves into for my entire life. Mm. So for me, it's... I can draw from the memories that I have personally, and that's what I would say is sit back and think about what this looks like from their side.
'Cause for me, there were anywhere from three to six months out of the year that I specifically remember just watching my parents sit at a table and work. Wow. And they would show up for all the important things, yes, great. Um, but I could tell there were portions of it that were not pleasant for them, and they did it 'cause they had to.
Um, and I appreciate that. Uh, but it's one of those things where- There were portions of time that I would've rather [00:24:00] been out doing other things with them than hanging out in the house watching them plug numbers on a 10 key. So, um, and I think it's the same thing that everybody wants for their family is do better than the ones before you.
Mm. Um, but how much better could it be if you could shift along the way and kind of go ahead and start that transition for yourself and your children now- Mm ... is kind of the, the direction I try to look at it. Um, the last thing I want is the memories that my kid have of me being, sitting in front of a computer or sitting in front of a, you know, a tax return doing the same thing over and over, year over year until they're adults.
Mm. So that's where I'm really excited with what we've done, is that now it's to the point where I have... Number one, it's not all family anymore. 'Cause at, at one point it was me, my wife, my mom, my brother-in-law. So if we wanted to take a family trip, it was like, "Who's gonna stay and work?" Yeah. Um, but now we've got the team and the ability and, [00:25:00] you know, we've cross-trained enough to the point where if we wanna go take a trip or we wanna go s- you know, do a staycation and spend time doing something together, then- Mm
we just plan for it and do it. Mm. That's awesome. Um, if you were, uh, sitting across the table from somebody who was, let's call it a year or two into their journey as an entrepreneur or a founder, um, what is some advice that you would have for them? Uh, what is something that you would tell them, "Hey, I've been through this before, and this is something to watch out for"?
Or what's an encouragement that you would give them? If you had one opportunity, what's that one thing you would say? Uh, again, drawing off of my personal experience would be don't go for the short-term win. Mm. I mean, or the easy win just because it's staring you in the face. Uh, I think that's kind of the, the major pitfall of most founders and, you know, in the first two to five years of business is that you're just trying to build to a certain point where you feel [00:26:00] comfortable, so you're, you know, giving leniency where sometimes where you shouldn't, or grace where you shouldn't to allow yourself to bring in clients or customers that probably, you probably wouldn't w- if you were to the point where you wanna be, you probably wouldn't give them a second look.
Mm. Um, and usually it causes more problems than it helps. So, uh, the way I describe it is short-term pain for long-term prosperity. So you can suck it up and deal with it for the short term and know that you're doing the right thing for the long-term aspects of what you're looking to achieve, rather than going for the quick win- Mm
and then having to suffer through it until you can get out of it. Mm. Um, that and build the right team. Mm. Talk more about that. Uh, practical advice on, on lessons you've learned about building the right team. Well, I mean, it's a big portion of what I do now, is that, um, kind of the, the difference [00:27:00] maker for us is we've, or I've put myself in a position with what I've learned where I can do things that a lot of either, a lot of other professionals either won't or can't, uh, or both.
And, um- The problem that I run into with a lot of the clients that we work with at that level, even really successful clients that are, you know, they may be doing two to $10 or $20 million worth of revenue through their business, but the fact of the matter is they work on their business every day, and they've bootstrapped their way to where they are.
Mm. So they got to a certain point, and they realized, "Oh, well, I need an attorney." Mm. So they went and found an attorney when they were at two million. Well, now they're at 20, and what he can do at two- Mm ... he can't really do at 20. Mm. Same thing with an accountant or a tax preparer or your insurance provider.
You know, all of these professionals, you need to build the right team for where you are in business, and sometimes that means you can outgrow your professionals. Mm. And know where those are- Mm ... [00:28:00] is the big part of it. Don't stick with somebody out of loyalty or because your family's used them forever when they're not a good fit for what you're looking to do.
Mm. And that's where a lot of people wait too long to make that decision. Mm. And they end up in a pain point that they don't want to be in. They've overpaid in tax for too many years. They feel like they've had an event, and they realize they had the wrong insurance- Mm ... because they've used their, you know, fraternity brother or their, you know, uncle's guy.
Um, w- or that, you know, they thought they had a contract that was ironclad, and turns out there were some pretty big gaps in it, and somebody took advantage of them- Mm ... because they used the wrong attorney. Mm. So, uh, for me, it's Find the people that are of like mindset. Uh, that's why I, the only networking I do is B2B, and it's because I can work specifically with like-minded professionals regardless of industry that can kind of all [00:29:00] understand the same pain points that you and I are talking about.
Um, but then they're all kind of specialized in their own certain areas, and they have different experiences that they're willing to share and collaborate with you on. And it... You can learn so much from other people's pain that you can avoid it. Yeah. And that's a big part of it, is don't, uh, don't be afraid to get out there and talk to people- Mm
'cause, um, it's only a lonely island if you let it be. Hmm. Totally. I always, um, I talk to a lot of people who will use the word, that they, they describe themselves as feeling, um, in a silo or alone or, um, you know, uh, like they just don't know what to do in this situation. And, um, there's a lot of different ways to say, you know, "I am in this alone."
Um, and that encouragement is so needed for so many different founders. Um, I think that, you know, it's a, it's a hard thing to almost, like, be able to find the brain space to be able to notice, like, how [00:30:00] desperately you need community, how desperately you need alternative perspective in those early days.
But to be honest, it doesn't really change. It almost gets even more important the further you go. Um, and so, uh, love that encouragement and, and think it's, um, really wise. Um, can I ask a different question? Yeah. Um, you have brought on, uh, what's your two partners' names? Tim and Katie. Tim and Katie. Um, and what...
When you bring in new people like that in such a significant way, uh, that inevitably has an impact on, I mean, how the business functions, yes, but also how it's perceived externally. Uh, how would you hope that the addition of two substantial, you know, uh, minority partners, um, how would you hope that that would impact the brand that you guys are trying to build right now?
Um, well, I mean that- Or that brand that you've built over 70 plus, 70, 80 plus years. Well, to answer that question, I [00:31:00] would tell you that it already has. Mm-hmm. 'Cause part of the reason that we started having the initial discussions was that I've had clients, I've had strategic partners, and just others ask me about acquiring accounting firms, to the point where when I got to a certain point and I wanted to start looking into it.
Well, it makes a whole lot more sense if I can go in as a subject matter expert in the tax industry as a f- 10 or 15% equity position if somebody wants to help me finance it, than if I bring in sales and operations, change management, executive coaching, and that, that becomes the partner with financial backing.
Then that's a whole lot bigger position to take because we can do a whole lot more change than just somebody that comes in with a different thought process in the same industry. Mm-hmm. Um, so for, for us, it's, it's worked out really well because it's- It's allowed us to get out of the, the [00:32:00] situation where your heart's tied to your wallet more than you want it to be.
So, you know, when, especially for us, we've got third and fourth generations of families that we're working with, and, you know, they'll bring in referrals and things like that, and you feel obligated to kind of match things up with where they came from. And it's like, well, I mean, they're still a new client, and we're...
This is where we've gotten to at this point. So we've gotta kind of push it out to where it needs to be, which is why we put it there. Um, but it's, it's worked really well for us because initially we started into it in October with our firm being a case study of how applicable is this gonna be? How successful can we make it?
Well, between Halloween and Christmas break on December 18th, we made about a 20 or 25% bump in revenue- Hmm ... because I got out of what I didn't need to be in, and they took it on and started working with the team on it. Hmm. And I went out and did development and strategy. Wow. [00:33:00] So, you know, you compound that over 12 months, and that's, it's a real difference maker.
Hmm. That's incredible. I feel like it's just a, a matter of, um, having everybody play the role that they're really meant to play. And what you've, what you've done is it's almost like you've accelerated the business by bringing in to, you know, people who sound to me like they've really, um, filled those gaps in ways to where there hasn't really been a blip.
In fact, probably the service has maybe even gotten better. Mm-hmm. Um, and then allowed for you to really step into that next phase of, of your leadership and the role within the company. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. What's one thing that you're, um... What's one of the hard parts of partnership? We've talked a lot about the benefits.
Um, we've talked about the fear, of course, of, of bringing them onto the team. But, you know, um, what are some things that either you've had to deal with or you want to avoid having to deal with as you go down the, the path? Um, just because I know- Yeah ... a lot of people struggle with partnership in particular [00:34:00] and doing it well.
Well, I mean, it's... I, I learned it very early on 'cause just from watching my family, um, that even when I came in initially it was the, you know, carefully who you get in bed with type situation. Sure. You know. Um, 'cause you don't wanna, you don't wanna unwind that. Um, I mean, the main thing is to just be very vigilant.
Don't... And I, I had opportunities to partner with others that thought it was gonna turn into something along the way. I'm glad it didn't, because now knowing what I know from not necessarily failures, but walking away from certain things at certain times because it wasn't right, um, led me to where I need to be.
And now I feel way better about it than I would have if I were in those situations right now. Um, but for me, the hard part's I mean, I, I would kind of liken it to someone who's getting ready to make an exit. I mean, it's a mind shift. Mm. Like, you, you've gotta change your, uh, your mental outlook on it because you're no [00:35:00] longer the only one making the decisions.
So it's really kind of a... kind of messes with you a little bit at first where it's like, "Okay, well, you know, no, we need to do this. Well, actually, no, we need to go talk to Tim and Katie first because I can't just make this decision anymore." And it's really hard not to just jump out there and do something when you got somebody kind of staring at you waiting for, for you to tell them what to do.
Mm. But it's also really freeing to be able to turn around and be like, "Well, actually, that's not my coverage area anymore. Go talk to Tim and Katie about that because I'm doing this part of the business now." And knowing completely full and well that they're gonna come to some workable resolution for it.
So it's kind of a pain point, but also a s- a strength at the same time to know that you've got the people supporting you. Mm. But it kind of... it's difficult to wrap your mind around it at first. The, that decision-making tree shifts pretty dramatically all, all in one fell swoop. Mm. But, uh, it's been really good.
I've really enjoyed it. Um, I guess [00:36:00] the only other pain point would just be that, um- The decisions shift slightly. Hmm. Uh, and some of them aren't fun, but that's because you were avoiding them. Hmm. So having s- having people come in that are third party or not, uh, as emotionally attached as you were to certain aspects or scenarios, then it, uh, expedites the decision-making process on that front, and it can be pretty uncomfortable, so you need to be prepared for it.
Hmm. W- do you mind, uh, exploring what you're talking about? I mean, we've re-staffed twice. Hmm. Um, first time around wasn't my decision. Second time around, it was me and my partner's decision because of what we're looking to do and where we're looking to go and- Hmm ... what it was gonna take to get there. Hard.
Um, and, you know, it, it's never easy trying to make that decision. The first ones made it easy because they didn't wanna work anyway, so. Hmm. [00:37:00] Um, but it made for an interesting beginning of the year. Hmm. Last year. Hmm. Um, first day back in the office, I totaled a car, lost four staff, and two days later my mom fell and broke her hip, so it was a pretty fun first week of the year.
Almost- Just got it all out of the way up front. I mean, with a lot of repercussions, it sounds like. Yes. Wow. Um, now that's, uh, just a sensitive topic, obviously, 'cause it involves people. Anytime that people are in the mix, it's sensitive, and those decisions are difficult, um, especially if you have to do it twice, like you've mentioned.
Um, what are the emotional implications of that, uh, for you? It's taxing. I mean, um- The biggest thing about me, and I openly admit it, and my partners would openly tell you, is that I'm, I'm the one with the big heart- Hmm ... uh, to a fault most of the time. So that's where I, again, I get to lean on, uh, you know, the partners that, [00:38:00] uh, as far as a disc assessment goes, then, you know, Tim's a hard D.
Uh- So we get to lean on him, and he calls himself Darth Vader. Um, but you know, Katie's good at wrangling cats. Tim and I are the head in the clouds guys. Mm-hmm. Tim's the, the more dominant personality. I'm the more kinda chill, relaxed. Katie's the more logical thinker, so we kind of all balance each other out at times when we need to.
Yeah. Good. Um, so it's been, been difficult from that aspect 'cause, uh, I was knowingly letting my emotion make the decision more than my logic at times. Hmm. And it was because of relationships that have been built or who it was or the client that we're working with and their situation. It's like, well, the fact of the matter is, is that it doesn't
That's not a good decision. Hmm. Um, so having the, the emotion removed from it- Hmm ... for me was what the key factor was. How do you balance, [00:39:00] uh, being, um, making decisions ... How, how do you balance making decisions that are naturally have implications for human beings, yet, uh, I would imagine not removing emotion in total, but not letting emotion be the predominant factor.
How do you, um, how do you remove that yet still live with purpose? For me, it's that I know once we've come to the conclusion that it's the right decision, the logical portion of it starts taking over about why we need to make this decision or- Yeah ... where, what's led to this point. Um, f- for me, especially now that I have some kinda case study back going into it, is that, you know, I've, I've been the guy that rode it too long- Mm-hmm
and gave too mu- too, too much grace, and, uh, it cost me more than time and patience. It cost me money. It cost me clients. Mm-hmm. It, um, and then it ended up costing me [00:40:00] staff anyway, so- Mm ... might as well have just got rid of the staff up front and then dealt with it after the fact. Hmm. Um, but it's ... And that I didn't mean to be punny on that part of it.
It's that it is taxing, though. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it's just, it makes it difficult 'cause, um, for me being, you know, I may been in the oil field and a firefighter and all this other stuff, but for somebody that's fairly emotionally involved with the people that I get close to, then- Mm ... things are really hard.
Mm.
And for me, I gue- I guess the, the basic point of it is that it has to make sense for what you're trying to achieve. Hmm. And if you're keeping people around or you're sticking with clients or sticking with the old way of doing things because it's comfortable more so than it makes sense for what you're trying to achieve- Hmm
it's gotta change. Hmm. That's really interesting. Last question for [00:41:00] you. Um, what is something that you... What's something that's been on your heart recently? Uh, you s- you s- you've talked about emotion and that you're kind of a heart before head type of a, type of a guy, and, uh, what's something that's been on your heart recently as it relates to either, um, business or your just relationship with people or your community that you feel, uh, you wanna be known for at the end of the day?
Uh, biggest thing for me is that I feel like a lot of professional service, not just accounting, has gotten away from value first- Hmm ... and being a resource. Hmm. You know, and you can tell, you know, if you've ever had to have any type of representation or anything like that, then when you get the bill for the 15-minute phone call or responding to an email, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Um, and my biggest thing is that I'm meant to be a resource first and foremost. Hmm. I'm meant to serve and provide value to those around me, [00:42:00] whether I'm working with them or not. Um, and for me it's that everything loves balance. Again, not trying to be an accountant, but, you know, um- You've got a few of those up your sleeve.
Yeah. But, uh, you know, the universe loves balance. I mean, the... I refuse to be a source of negativity or a draw on the world. I wanna put more into it- Hmm ... and more into the people around me, and I know it'll come back to me. Hmm. Whether it's, uh, for me, revenue and income is a secondary aspect of success. Hmm.
Um, and I think that's what a lot of people have lost sight of is that if everybody could just worry about putting value into each other, then everybody wins- Hmm ... at some point. Hmm. Um, it's the ones that are all me, me, me and- Hmm ... what do I get out of this? Yeah. That end up being the drag- Hmm ... on the world for me.
Hmm. Um, but the biggest thing for me is that I just- I don't wanna be remembered. I wanna be unforgettable. Hmm. [00:43:00] And I want that to be through the value that I bring to people. Hmm. Wow. Well, what a good word, and also, uh, just an encouragement for you that I think that you've added a lot of value today.
Thanks. Uh, and lived that out really, really well. And, um, grateful to have the opportunity to sit down with you for the last, uh, last little bit. Um, it's been fun, uh, hearing about your family business that has, uh, kind of stepped into a new chapter. Thanks for exploring that honestly with us and, um, just kind of breaking down what that means for you guys.
I'm excited for what you have going on, and, um, it seems like, uh, a really exciting time to be a part of your firm. So, um, thanks again for the time. Absolutely. I appreciate you having me. I'm looking forward to it.