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Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope, joined by Andy Anders, as we are now two and a half weeks into spring practice for Ohio State. Ten more days of spring practice to go, and still a lot more, but we'll have an opportunity to learn about this Ohio State football team over the next ten days.
We'll be out at Student Appreciation Day on Saturday. That's always an informative day, a good opportunity to watch the team scrimmage. And then, of course, ten days from today, the Ohio State Spring Games, Spring Showcase, whatever you want to call it, Ryan Day says it is going to be a spring game.
So we are going to get to see the Buckeyes play some football in Michoud on April 12th. So a couple more big opportunities for us, and certainly for all Ohio State fans on April 12th, for Ohio State students this upcoming Saturday to get to see the Buckeyes in action, get a glimpse of this 2025 Ohio State football team. But I think we've continued to learn more about this Ohio State team just through interviews with coaches and players.
And I think particularly Ryan Day's press conference this Monday, I think, was a particularly insightful press conference, you know, probably more so than the others we'd had with Ryan Day this spring, because he really gave updates on every single position group. You know, I asked him, I said, kind of, who's standing out so far this spring, and he really kind of gave me a rundown of every single position group, got asked some other questions about specific position groups as well, which really kind of gave us an idea of his evaluation of the Ohio State football team, at least through Monday's practice, which was the eighth practice of the spring, Ohio State now nine practices in as of Tuesday, six more to go.
But, you know, always insightful to kind of get that, you know, you know, you can always ask about specific players or and get, you know, the positive coach, speaker, whatever on that player. But I think when you get kind of more of that open ended kind of evaluation of different position groups and hearing him talk about one after another, you kind of get an idea of which position groups are, you know, really doing well and where he feels really good about where they're at right now and which position group he wants to see more from. And we'll start with that latter group of positions.
And I think at least my read on it, Andy, from hearing what he had to say about each position group, it seems like the one where he, he still has the most concerns, wants to see more from his defensive tackle. And that's no surprise because we've talked about that a lot on this podcast over the last few weeks about how that might be the biggest position of concern right now. And I don't think that anything Ryan Day said on Monday dissuaded that idea.
[Ryan Day]
We need those guys to step up. I think, you know, there's there's certain things that have been good and there's certain things that have flashed. But every time we say the word flash, that means it's probably not consistent enough, the abilities there.
So it's an area that, you know, we've got to continue now in the second half of spring to see a push out of that group.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, like you said, Dan, we've talked about the defensive tackles at length at this point. Don't need to beat that point too much to death, but you're still just sitting there wondering who's the backup nose tackle to Kate McDonald, because there's no obvious choice between those guys, that next wave of guys. Jason Moore is more of a three-tack Taiwan Malone.
Maybe he could slide over Will Smith Jr. You're wondering what his ceiling even is at Ohio State, a legacy, obviously, someone you'd like to see succeed. But is he going to be capable of stepping in as a nose tackle if, you know, they need someone to give Kate McDonald a break every now and then? So that next wave of guys developing is so critical because you don't want to have to play the two new starters 50, 60 snaps a game.
And it just leaves you with doubts when Edric Houston passed most of them on the depth chart after changing positions and being a freshman last year. So definitely a very important offseason, as we've referenced before. The three other positions that Ryan Day talked about on Monday as Ohio State needing to see more overall depth-wise from those spots were on the offensive side of the ball, quarterback, offensive tackle, wide receiver.
And I thought it was interesting. You know, there's been a consistent messaging on the quarterbacks this spring where the coaches are seeing progress, but no one's sort of where they need to be at. You know, they need more consistency.
That's that's always the word when it comes to the quarterbacking and being that first guy in, last guy out. So that was the message that we heard Day reiterate on Monday.
[Ryan Day]
There's been really good progress in that room. All three of them, I can, you know, recognize that there's been growth in all areas. And then there's other moments where they have two or three plays in a row that, you know, I just, you know, we all get frustrated, but we're going to keep coaching them and keep pushing them.
I think that they have the right attitude. I think they have a growth mindset in that they come in every day and put the work in and the preparation in. They just need more and more reps.
[Dan Hope]
I think we always expected that this quarterback competition was going to continue into preseason camp, but it was unlikely that someone was going to win this job outright this spring. And it certainly feels like that's where it's trending now, where, you know, that separation that they want to see from a Julian Sane or a Lincoln Keenholz in this competition hasn't happened yet, that they've had, you know, their ups and the downs. Now, you know, like Ryan Day said, they're seeing good things.
They're seeing progress. But reality is, you know, this is just an inexperienced young quarterback room right now. You know, Julian Sane's a guy who's in his second year at Ohio State.
He only played sparingly as a third string quarterback last year. Lincoln Keenholz, he was a fourth string quarterback last year. His only real playing time of significance he's gotten at Ohio State was in the Cotton Bowl two years ago after Devin Brown got hurt.
And he got thrust into a situation where he was basically playing with a bunch of guys he'd barely even practiced with and had to go try to dig Ohio State out of a bad situation. And then you have Tavey and St. Clair, who's a freshman, five-star recruit, lots of talent, but in his first spring at Ohio State. And so there's still a lot of development that needs to happen for all of these guys.
I think this next week and a half will be telling, though, for that position in particular. Student Appreciation Day and especially the spring game, that's going to be our first real opportunity to watch them throw in competitive settings. The only opportunities we've had so far to watch them throw this spring are just, you know, just on air, which doesn't really show a whole lot.
You got to you got to see them going against a live defense, trying to move the ball down the field to really get a feel for where these guys are at. And so I think, you know, a week for a week and a half from now, you know, it might only be a couple of viewings, but just the opportunity to see these guys in the spring game, especially the spring game, because it's such a high profile position. I mean, we talked about a lot with with Will Howard, you know, Will Howard had a lot of talent, but what I think really made Will Howard the perfect quarterback for Ohio State was how well he was able to handle that spotlight, how well he was able to handle the pressure that came with that position.
And a lot of that had to do with all the experience he had gained over the years. These guys do not have that experience. And so I think one of the biggest questions for these guys isn't do they have the physical tools to be a great quarterback at Ohio State?
It's do they have the mental makeup? Are they ready for all the pressure that comes with that position and being in that spotlight? And so I think seeing, you know, even how they perform in front of the students this weekend and then especially in the spring game with tens of thousand people in the shoe, I think that will give us a lens into where these guys are at.
But it certainly feels like either way, you know, this competition is going to go into preseason camp and there's going to be some uncertainty about this position. And I think certainly you get the vibe that Ryan Day, Brian Hartline, Billy Fessler, all of them, there's more they need to see from all of these guys if they're going to really feel good about where they're at at quarterback going into that season opener against Texas.
[Andy Anders]
Right, you are. And to your point, you know, you hear me talking about coming out of those practices, you just zipping the release on Julian Sands path like there's not a whole lot to evaluate other than just watching how it looks when a guy throws the ball. It's so there's so much more that goes into quarterbacking when you talk about reading defenses, when you talk about leadership in the huddle, when you talk about accuracy, when there's actually a defender on somebody, you know, these are all elements that we've yet to see and evaluate.
And I think that's some of the hesitancy that Ryan Day is expressing right now in trying to evaluate, make judgments on where the quarterbacks are. And we've thought since the beginning, this was a competition that would probably go into preseason camp, even if just for the fact that a lot of quarterback competitions, even ones that felt a little more obvious than this one, have gone into preseason camp under Ryan Day in the past just to kind of keep guys engaged, keep things competitive. But also it really does feel like they want to see the challenge that Lincoln Keene, Holsten, Tavey, and St. Clair can can provide to Julian Sane, especially as they gain more of that comfort, more of that evaluation in the offense. But I think a position that's even harder to evaluate on the practices that we saw that is very prevalent in these conversations about where Ohio State needs depth in particular to step up this year is offensive tackle. I mean, you can't you really can't judge offensive alignment at all without seeing those pads come on without seeing the contact, the movement, pass rush one on ones, finding out where our guys are in those. And that's another element of student appreciation day.
I'll be really excited to see is maybe we get some access and get to watch them one on one pass rush reps with some of these new transfer offensive tackles and these new defensive ends, this new crop of defensive ends Ohio State's going to have starting and rotating throughout the season, going against each other. The hesitancy with that offensive tackle group is intriguing because I think, yes, we've expressed doubts about Ohio State's depth that offensive tackle for about the 50th year in a row. It feels like just all the all the uncertainty they've had about behind the starters, even dating back to last year.
Right. Donovan Jackson had to slide over from guard to tackle ultimately to give Ohio State the lineup it needed after it had injuries at the offensive tackle position last season. And now you're in a situation where it doesn't seem like there's you haven't had enough to be confident even about the starters yet, let alone who the backups for those starters are going to be.
I mean, Ethan Onyanwa gets in from Rice, has all this experience, but it is a step up in competition. He's got all the physical tools. The evaluations were really good coming in.
But even at right tackle, I feel like there was uncertainty with Phillip Daniels. And if things would click for him immediately and they haven't yet. And so you're sitting here wondering, Dan, is it these transfers just acclimating to Ohio State?
Is it just like there we saw them being held back a little bit early on in the spring? Is it that or is it real legitimate concerns, even as as we talk about the starters at offensive tackle potentially for Ohio State this fall?
[Dan Hope]
Well, I think the positive thing is Ryan Day said, you know, he said the development of the tackles is still something that's a work in progress. I feel like we have what we need there, but there just needs to continue to get more and more reps and feel it. But there's definitely improvement there.
And so that indicates that over the course of those first eight practices, they have seen growth from those guys. And like you mentioned, you know, Ethan Onyanwa, it's a big jump from Rice to Ohio State. And so there's reason to expect that there would be somewhat of an acclimation process there.
Phillip Daniels, I think he started four games at Minnesota, so he's still a young guy who's still developing. You know, Ian Moore is a guy I think they really like, but, you know, he didn't play much last year. And so I think to hear that there's been some, you know, if it is a work in progress, I don't think that's, you know, a five alarm fire or anything.
I think that's probably to be expected based on the fact that your top guys at that position are a couple of transfers and, you know, a redshirt freshman who only played sparingly last year. I mean, I think back to this time a year ago, if I remember correctly, I think Seth McLaughlin was taking second team center snaps behind Carson Hinsman. He goes on to win the Remington Trophy.
And so I think there's still plenty of time there for things to come together at offensive tackle. And, you know, Ryan did say, Ryan Day did say, you know, he feels good about where they're at at the on the interior, which I think is certainly a positive sign. You know, I think, you know, Carson Hinsman feels like the guy that's going to be the leader of that offensive line this spring just feels like, you know, he's a guy that they really feel good about.
And, you know, we might hear more about that on Thursday when Tyler Bowen and the offensive lineman talk, but it feels like, you know, Carson Hinsman is a guy who's trending up. I think Luke Montgomery is a guy who's certainly trending up after that CFP run. You know, Tegra Shibola, Austin Sehreveld, you know, bringing more experience in there.
And it's also going to be interesting. We've heard so much about cross training. It'll be interesting to see, you know, Student Appreciation Day spring game.
How much of that do we see in action? You know, do we see Luke get some reps at tackle? Do we see Tegra get some reps at tackle?
We've already seen Austin get some reps at tackle. You know, how much do they mix and match, guys, even in that spring game setting as they work on continuing to try to develop that depth that you talked about? So, you know, certainly I don't think it's shocking that it is still a work in progress there.
I don't think there's any reason to panic right now. It's just something to monitor. But, you know, those transfer tackles, you know, there's probably still some more that they need to see from those guys before they're really going to feel good about those guys as the starters.
And like I said, it's that, you know, set in stone, I think, especially on the right side, where I think, you know, Ian Moore is a legitimate candidate for that starting job. And so we'll see how that continues to develop here over the next couple of weeks. I think maybe the position where I was a little bit more surprised to hear a more lukewarm assessment from Ryan Day was at wide receiver, because obviously wide receiver is a position that, you know, everybody has massive expectations for, with Jeremiah Smith, with Carnell Tate.
I don't know about you, Andy, but I know for me, you know, being at the Pro Day last week, we'll talk a little bit at the end of a show about, you know, some of the draft prospects who impressed us. But one guy who really impressed me at Pro Day was Brandon Innes. He was out there catching passes from Will Howard.
He really looked good the way he was out there, you know, running routes, catching passes. You know, he's a guy that feels like to me is ready to, you know, take that step this year and have a breakout year in year three. But what Ryan Day said on Monday was we've got to do a really good job of a depth at wide out.
I think at the top end we're solid, but four through six has really got to come on from us. So that suggests that, you know, whether it's Mylon Graham, whether it's Bryce and Rogers, they're not quite seeing what they need to see from those guys yet to feel really good about that depth. And it's a little surprising to hear that because, you know, Bryce and Rogers, a guy has been talked up a decent amount the last couple of years.
Mylon Graham's a guy who was getting talked up a lot at the start of this spring. You know, I still think those are both guys who have a chance to establish themselves in the rotation this year. But it doesn't sound like that's quite happened yet.
[Andy Anders]
No, and I think the question that we had as we as we've heard Mylon get talked up, as we've heard Bryson get talked up, is how much are we actually going to see the number four receiver in this offense? Last year, Brandon had a couple of big plays here and there, but he wasn't like a real featured part of the offense for Ohio State. You talk about less than 300 receiving yards and these kinds of things, like as long as that top three is healthy, it's not that huge a deal if the number four guy isn't going to necessarily be a star for the offense.
But it is important to have depth at every position. And for what we've heard about those two guys, you're right. It was surprising to hear kind of a pumping of the brakes, maybe a little bit in terms of where they're at in their development, in their progression, trying to be that number four guy.
And it is, again, you're one injury away from needing one of those guys to come in and be a third option when teams are going to try and double Jeremiah. Maybe Cardell doesn't get open on a play. That is the good news, though.
It's like this is a receiver room that has three guys you're feeling so good about right now and two guys that are proven, you would say, with Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, that as long as you have a couple of guys on, you have Max Claire, too, at the tight end position. It's just this wealth of riches at Ohio State to where it almost feels, not silly isn't the right word, but it feels like saying Ohio State has any sort of problem in the receiver room almost feels like an exaggeration, right? It's just they have such a wealth of riches there.
Anytime you talk about that room and what Brian Hartline's built it into, it's just those little luxury fixes almost that it feels like you want to have that fourth guy ready to go, no doubt. But it's also not a concern that you're sitting here going like, oh, my gosh, this is going to make or break the 2025 team. For the future of it, you want to see that guy emerge between Miley Graham or Bryson Rodgers or both.
And that's the part of it that's interesting to me is seeing hopefully you hear better things about the depth and where those two guys are for down the road and next year when you might have to replace a guy or two in that room.
[Dan Hope]
And some of it's probably just trying to challenge those guys, too, right? Yes, like, you know, because everybody, us, everybody is like, you know, blowing plenty of smoke toward Ohio State's wide receivers like they're the best in the country. They've been the best in the country.
They're going to continue to be the best in the country. So I think that's probably part of it, too, is just trying to challenge those guys and not get complacent with where they're at right now. Yeah, absolutely.
[Andy Anders]
And so I'll be interested to see just where Miley Graham does get to, where Bryson Rodgers does get to by the fall. And as we've talked about before, the actual mix of the number four, number five guy, because it might be true that Bryson Rodgers is the next man in in the slot and Miley Graham is the next man in on the outside. So both those guys might kind of be a number four in that way.
How much they mix into the offense, how much they get involved this fall will be the ultimate telltale sign of Ohio State's confidence in its receiver depth.
[Dan Hope]
I think another comment that I thought was interesting from Ryan Day is it felt like he left the door open for possibly adding another transfer defensive end. He said, I think that with Caden, Kenyatta, Logan, CJ playing there, we're getting a decent pass rush right now. That of course, referencing Caden Curry, Kenyatta Jackson, Logan George, and CJ Hick.
But he then said, but we'll have to see over the next couple of weeks if we feel like it's enough to move into next year, which, um, you know, I, I can't say that I'd expect Ohio State to add another defensive end because I feel like they've got a pretty solid two deep with those guys, uh, especially if CJ Hicks drawing a lot of praise, you know, when, you know, when I asked Ryan day, who's standing out, CJ was the first guy that he mentioned.
And so it certainly seems like this move from linebacker to the edge is going well for CJ Hicks right now. And, you know, I think he's a guy who has a real chance to be a breakout star on this Ohio State defense in his senior year. He also mentioned Zion Grady as well as someone who they like what they're seeing from him as a freshman, where he could have a chance to contribute this year.
And so that's five guys right there at defensive end, but I think give them the potential to have a strong rotation. I think the question with this defensive end group is whether anyone in that group can be that true star that they can rely on consistently. You know, we saw, especially in the CFP, what Jack Sawyer and JT to a mola wow did for that Ohio State football team last year.
Can any of these guys get to that level? That's a high bar to, to ascend to. And I think that's probably the question right now is just like, do they have that guy?
Do they have that guy who can be a consistent source of pressure off the edge? And if not, do they need to continue to look for possibly adding one more guy into that rotation to, to try to add that, you know, it's possible, you know, I'm reading a little bit too much into that comment, but just to hear him say that, I thought that was interesting because, you know, I, I do think their depth is a lot stronger at defensive end right now than it is a defensive tackle, but I think there's still that question of, you know, will Caden Curry, Kenyatta Jackson, will they really make that jump and become those guys that you can consistently rely on? And then how much will they get from the depth behind those guys?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. And that's just the feeling I get too. Cause it's like, it feels like they have enough depth at the defensive end, but between those four guys, it's like, do you need a fifth person who's ready for snaps this year in that defensive end room in the portal?
Maybe they want to add another guy there just to feel better about it. But when, when he gets, when you get that sense that he's not pumping the brakes on adding someone else from the transfer portal, it's like, well, then are they going out and seeking kind of an alpha dog, right? Someone who is your bonafide star pass rusher, get after, do all the things that defensive end does, set the edge, get after the quarterback, et cetera.
We've been expecting Kenyatta and Caden to be ready for those roles. And I think the amount they were used the last two seasons kind of indicated that Ohio state was ready when they need them, um, to, to, but then again, there were other games the last two years where Kenyatta and Caden weren't used as much, weren't rotated in as much. It's exactly where they're at on their journey.
And if they are ready to be those two stars, that is the question. Like you said, Dan, how, um, how prepared are they to go out and be consistent forces because it's Ohio state. You should hold yourself to the highest standard possible in the country.
This is a defensive line room. I don't think we need to run down the great defensive ends that Ohio state has produced, uh, for the people listening to this podcast. There's, you know, you talk about the Bosa brothers, the Chase Youngs of the world, what Jack and JT did by the end of their careers, even if they had some rough patches here and there, um, were.
I think inarguably the best defensive end tandem in the country, um, for that four game CFP run. So you've got to have defensive ends capable of doing that. It's one of the cornerstones of modern defense.
And if Ohio state doesn't feel that's currently in the room right now, then you need to go out and get that alpha stonewall anchor on the, at the defensive end position. But like you said, Dan, I'm. To me, I'm confident that that can be Kenyatta Jackson, Caden Curry, and then CJ Hickson pass rushing specific situations.
Um, to me, I don't think Ohio state needs that right now, but the caught that comment from Ryan, uh, if we're not reading too much into it, like you said, definitely does have me questioning that.
[Dan Hope]
And it's worth keeping in mind. Ohio state did go after Damon Wilson from, from, from Georgia. There was a feeling there for, for a bit that they were going to get Damon Wilson.
And he's probably a guy who would have been leading that edge depth chart if they had gotten him. And so, you know, that showed you, cause that was after they had already gotten Logan George. So that showed you, they were, they were.
Always considering the possibility of adding multiple guys on the edge. And like you said, I think it really is about that alpha dog. And I think the question, you know, then becomes, well, this could also depend on if that guy actually enters the portal.
I mean, there's one guy in the portal right now who would be intriguing. I think that being David Bailey, who just entered the transfer portal from Stanford. I haven't heard anything yet connecting him to Ohio state, but you know, that would be a guy.
Like if they are looking for somebody, that would be a guy I'd make the call to because he's, he's a guy who was Stanford's best player last year. You know, he's a guy who I think could add a real spark to that pass rush. You know, to your point, I think if you're going to go get a guy, that's the kind of guy you're looking for.
I don't, I don't think. You know, they necessarily need to add another guy just for depth. I think if you're, if you're looking to add a guy, it would be more to be a guy.
You can kind of put that room over the top and will that kind of player be available in the post spring portal? You really don't know. Cause last year of a post spring portal did not see a whole lot of action.
And so that could ultimately be a deciding factor in that conversation to one being how did the defensive ends that they have on the roster right now, finish off this spring. Then the other factor could potentially be, you know, does a guy who could actually elevate that room, enter the, the, the portal and the post spring window. And that I said, David Bailey would be one option, but if they don't get him, then, you know, I I'm not, it's really to be determined here in a couple of weeks, whether that kind of player would enter a portal.
We've talked about positions where Ryan Day raised some concerns. Uh, the, he was the other five position groups. Uh, Ryan Day, I think had a lot of positive things to say, starting with the running backs.
He acknowledged that, you know, it's hard to really evaluate running backs in the spring. You know, it's one of those positions when the pads aren't on, when you're not taking guys to the ground, it's hard to evaluate, but the James people's hype train continues to, to add fuel. Yeah, Andy, the conductor of the James people's hype train, appreciating that Ryan Day, uh, adding some more, uh, gasoline to that train as he talked up James people's also, uh, praised CJ Donaldson.
It sounded like Bo Jackson's having a really good first spring at Ohio state. And he mentioned Sam Williams Dixon as well as somebody who's having a good spring. And so, you know, that's a position that I think was probably, you know, maybe one of our more quiet question marks coming into the spring.
At least it was for me, because you, you've always been so high on James people's that may be less so for you, but that's a position we talked about a couple of weeks ago. And I think for me, my confidence in that group just keeps going up because everybody's saying all the right things about James people's. I think CJ Donaldson is doing all the right things this spring to give himself a chance to take his game to a new level.
And then if, you know, either Bo Jackson and or Sam Williams Dixon can give you a third guy that you feel good about, then I think you're going to be in a pretty good spot at running back.
[Andy Anders]
Right. I beamed enough about James people's on this podcast, but I, uh, CJ Donaldson's weight loss has been, I think a huge thing to mention with, with Carlos Laughlin praising that with, um, adding maybe some more agility, some more bursts, some more speed to his game when he's been viewed as a, between the tackles runner. You know, I talked in the past about how consistent his production was at West Virginia and sort of getting that, um, him being a known entity, knowing what you're going to get from him, maybe he can find that next year at Ohio state.
And I think that in combination with James people's capitalizing on all this hype train momentum, um, can how, what is the ceiling of Ohio state's running back room? Maybe it is a little higher than we even thought in the past. We'll see, um, a lot of, a lot of off season, a lot of development to go for those guys.
But I think a room we've both been high on that Ryan day also seems high on is this tight in room. And you talk about the depth there and how real it feels right now for Ohio state, all the options they have, um, adding Max Claire to kind of take that receiving threat to the next level in terms of the weapons they have in the room and still having blockers like Will Kastmeric and Bennett Christian, Jelani Thurman, where can he get to like this tight is one of the deepest and best possibly in the country this year.
That's the sense we're we've gotten. And it feels Ryan day is now exuding some of that same confidence about where his tight ends are.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah. He said the tight end room as as deep is as deep as we thought it would be. Uh, Keenan Bailey also had similar comments.
I asked him last week, you know, is this the deepest room that you've had as Ohio state said, and coach, and he said, it's gotta be, he said, he thinks they're super deep. So yeah, I think they're loaded at tight ends. And I think that going back to some of those depth concerns at wide receiver, I think this can assuage some of that.
I think because, you know, they've talked about a lot, like we're going to put the best guys on the field. Even with Jeremiah Smith, Cardinal Tate and Brandon Ennis, you could see a lot of 12 personnel this year because they have that. I mean, Max Claire is a guy that you're going to want to play a lot, but I think we'll cast Merrick's also a guy that you're going to want to play a lot because he's a really good blocker.
I think Bennett Christians proved that he can be a real asset as a blocker. I think Jelani Furman's a guy that the way they're talking him up, you might have to find ways to get him on the field. And so I think that can go a long way toward helping address some of those wide receiver depth concerns is, you know, maybe you don't always need free receivers out there because you have.
You know, I think guys, you know, like Max Claire and Jelani Furman that really, I mean, Max Claire certainly has proven he can be a game changer from a tight end position. Jelani Furman's a guy I think we still think has that potential. I think we'll cast Merrick's a really well-rounded player, and I think Bennett Christians an excellent blocker.
Yeah, I just think that room's loaded. I mean, I've said it before, I'll say it again. I think it is going to be the best tight end room in the country.
I don't feel the need to couch that. I think it is going to be the best tight end room in the country, which is not something that I've ever said about Ohio State's tight end room being on the beat. I mean, caged over at a good year a couple years ago, but just the depth of that room to feel like they have four guys who I think could all play major roles for just about any college football team in the country.
You know, that's what makes that room so impressive. And to hear Keenan Bailey say it, to hear Ryan Day say it, makes me feel like, you know, I'm correct in that assessment that, you know, this tight end room has the potential to be really, really, really good this year. Another position group that I think is getting talked up a lot by the coaches this spring has been the linebacker position.
We know Sonny Stiles coming back. He's a guy they expect him to be the leader of his team this year, going to be a captain, probably going to be a block. Oh, but we've also heard Arvell Reese and Peyton Pierce both get talked up a lot.
And, you know, I think Arvell is a guy that, you know, we saw enough of him playing last year, but there's reason to feel really good about what he can be as a starting linebacker for his team. And then Peyton Pierce, like you just, I mean, you could just tell like James Warrenitis loves that guy. Like just the way that he talks about Peyton Pierce.
He said he's an absolute natural out there. You can just tell like they see something in Peyton Pierce that they really think he's going to be a ballplayer for Ohio State too. And so I think with those three guys, I think Ohio State's feeling really good about the top of that linebacker depth chart.
And we heard Ryan Day also mentioned Riley Pettijohn and TJ Offord, two of the three freshmen that have come in this spring. And so, you know, I think that's a position, the top of a room's looking really strong. And if guys like Riley and TJ show that they're able to contribute as freshmen, the depth of that room could be really strong too.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. And my favorite part of the Warrenitis quote, which, you know, absolute natural is what I wrote about in my story over the weekend. But he called him a throwback, which to me, I think James sees a lot of himself in Peyton maybe.
When you talk about that classic middle linebacker, make all the tackles, big hitter, like that sort of thing. You talk about a guy with 180 tackles, 140 tackles for loss in a high school season. Peyton Pierce's numbers there.
He didn't get the benefit of a full spring last year because he was injured. And now I think with a fall under his belt going into this off season and this spring, there's been a real step. Every time we've heard James talk about his linebacker room, because we've spoken to him twice now this spring, it has been those three names at the top, Sonny, Arvell, and Peyton, not just Sonny and Arvell, which I think is really telling.
They expect to get Peyton Pierce involved a lot this year in those four, three packages, but maybe also in some good rotation with those other two. And calling Arvell a special talent, I mean, you look out there and you've got two linebackers who are 6'3", 6'4", really great length to challenge passes. Sonny and Arvell are both ridiculously special athletes.
I think the ability of this linebacker core this year to play sideline to sideline with instincts, noses for the football, is going to be something really special to watch. Like just the whole, the athleticism they have to play the entire field from that position is, I think, going to be a really good trait of this room in particular when you talk about what Sonny and Arvell do well, and then what Peyton Pierce does so well between the tackles and having just elite instincts the way James has talked him up. And the wrestling background too, a guy who's a state champion wrestler, those, I can tell you what, linebackers with a wrestling background are great blockshedders, and that's something James also talked about up about Peyton.
So I think lots of reason to be excited about those top three. And then we knew T.J. Alford and Riley Pettijohn were talented coming in, so good to hear that that has started to translate some in their freshman years.
[Dan Hope]
Another guy who's getting talked up a lot this spring is Jermaine Matthews Jr. Ryan Day singled him out when talking about the cornerbacks on Monday. Tim Walton said Tuesday that he's had a, quote, outstanding spring. And so it feels like Jermaine Matthews Jr. is doing exactly what he needs to do to lock up that starting job opposite Davis and Igbenosin at corner. Lot of excitement about Devin Sanchez, and rightfully so. I think he's a guy who's going to play this year in some capacity. I think he's going to be a great player at Ohio State in due time.
But I think there's been kind of an undercurrent out there of this idea of Jermaine could potentially lose his starting job if Devin is that good. And I mean, again, I think if Devin proves he belongs on the field, they're going to get him on the field. But I think Jermaine's starting job, based on everything we're hearing, is not in any jeopardy.
There's a possibility where, you know, Jermaine moves inside to nickel and Devin starts outside if he gets to that point where he has to get on the field. I don't think he's there yet, though. I mean, the way they're talking about Devin Sanchez, it's very positive, but it's not the way they were talking about Jeremiah Smith a year ago.
I mean, the way they were talking about Jeremiah Smith at this point a year ago, it was like, yeah, that guy's going to play. He's going to start right away. The way they talked about Jeremiah Smith a year ago was just different than I've ever heard Ryan Day or any of the coaches talk about a freshman in the spring at Ohio State.
The way they're talking about Devin, it's very positive. It's very optimistic about his future, but it's not quite Jeremiah Smith yet. And again, holding anyone to that, you know, a lot of people have talked about him being like that Jeremiah Smith of defense, and he may prove to be that in due time.
But I think holding anyone to that standard is extremely lofty. And so I still believe it's more likely than not we're going to see Devin Sanchez play a substantial role on this defense this year. But I think based on what we've heard so far, you get the sense that, you know, this idea of him being like Jeremiah Smith good from week one, he's not there yet.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, it was funny. And we were, I think we might've approached this later in the show, but Chris Henry Jr. shut down his recruitment on Tuesday for Ohio State. And one of my friends texted in our group chat that isn't he supposed to be Jeremiah Smith good?
And I said, only Jeremiah Smith is Jeremiah Smith good. It's just this Jeremiah Smith to me, and I think it's been proven in a year now that I can say this is a prospect that is one and not only the best regardless of position in his class, but in a group of classes, like you can. He's one of one, as the kids say.
Exactly. Like you can look over like the five years surrounding him. And I think he's going to go down as the best prospect from any of those classes.
Like it's, you can't hold anybody to a Jeremiah Smith standard. There is only one Jeremiah Smith. So yes, I don't think Devin Sanchez, and maybe I've pumped a little hype into that too, but I don't think Devin Sanchez is going to be that in year one.
However, he can still be a real contributor for this team. And I think at least in the practices we've seen, we've seen that fluid athleticism and a lot of the good traits that he possesses. Jermaine Matthews, it's good to see him taking that grip on the starting job, like you said, really nailing down and trying to become that star that I think we've seen since his freshman year when he showed up in that big spot against Penn State.
What Jermaine's kind of ceiling is, his projection can be at Ohio State. I think the dude's an all-American caliber player. I think Davidson Iguinosa is also an all-American caliber player if he cuts down on the penalties.
Ohio State's cornerback room, I don't expect to take any steps back this year, certainly not on the outside spots. And then as Nickel develops too, we'll see how that mixes in. And I think that kind of lends itself well to the safety discussion too, which was Ryan Day was also confident in the safeties and what he's seen out of Jalen McClain and Malik Hartford specifically, as both of them have sort of competed there.
But also talking to him, talking to McInerney, two of the safeties we got to talk to on Tuesday, didn't speak to Malik, but did get to speak to Jalen. There is definitely a plan as it stands to have packages with both of them on the field. Those two guys I think we saw last year were clearly the defined next two after Latham and Caleb.
And as this competition has developed, there's complementary tools in their skill sets to where you could definitely plug in three safety groupings of Caleb Downs, Malik Hartford, and Jalen McClain. And as you asked Matt Patricia and Matt Guerrero both about them, I had asked Matt Patricia last week about Malik Hartford. We talked about that on last week's podcast.
But there's a clear emphasis on versatility with both of those players to get them ready to play together, to get them ready to do multiple things in the defense. And so as Ohio State finds its best five in the secondary, or even different groupings that are its best five against certain offenses, I think Malik Hartford and Jalen McClain are both going to be involved in this defense. It's clear now, regardless of who ultimately wins the strong safety competition.
[Dan Hope]
I think it could be kind of like it was with Jermaine a year ago, where Jermaine wasn't a starter, but Tim Walton said it Tuesday, we viewed him as a starter last year. Even though he wasn't in the starting lineup, he was a guy that they felt like they could use like a starter. I think it could be the same way with this safety group where maybe, maybe only one of those guys, because it's still possible a free safety look could become their primary defense.
Or at least in some games, based on matchups, you could see all three of those guys, Caleb Downs, Malik Hartford, Jalen McClain, all starting the game. But I think even if the primary defense is just one of those two with Caleb Downs, I think the other guys going to play, and I think if they continue on the trajectory that they're both on right now, Ohio State is going to feel like it has three starting caliber safeties. And so I think they're in a really good, I mean, obviously, again, anytime you start from Caleb Downs, that's a good thing.
And Caleb Downs, a little bit worrisome that people heard, Ryan Day say Monday that he's got a little nagging injury. He's been limited this spring. Doesn't sound like it's anything to worry about.
I think just really, they're just trying to be safe with him because he played a ton of football last year. He's not a guy that needs to be getting a ton of reps this spring. And so they're just trying to be extra cautious of him.
But he said he's still been out there getting some work and team drills and stuff like that. And so Caleb Downs is, of course, going to be the leader of that safety group. But I think, you know, Jalen McClain, Malik Hartford coming along the way they are.
Even a guy like Fahim Delane's a guy that they seem to like where, you know, maybe he doesn't play a lot as a freshman, but I think he's a guy who could be kind of like Jalen McClain was last year. And kind of like Malik Hartford was two years ago, where he could be kind of that next man up as a freshman, maybe earn some playing time here and there, play a lot on special teams and kind of position himself to be a future starter at that position. And so I think they're in a really good spot at safety right now.
I think that secondary in general, even though they're replacing three really good players from last year. And Denzel Burke, Jordan Hancock, Leif and Ransom. I think we'd probably both agree, like still the biggest question in the secondary is how do they replace Jordan Hancock at nickel?
Is Lorenzo Stiles Jr. that guy who can, you know, handle the full breadth of what Jordan Hancock did last year? Or is it going to need to be more, you know, multiple packages, you know, substitutions in different situations? We'll see how that ultimately plays out.
But I think certainly all the pieces are there for Ohio State to have a BIA secondary as Tim Walton would call it. A few more things to cover here before we finish up the show, because while spring football has been the main focus at Ohio State, a lot of other stuff has happened over the past week too. Andy, of course, is on the men's basketball beat for us.
And that roster movement process is well underway for Ohio State. One transfer addition so far, Gabe Cupps, former Ohio Mr. Basketball, committing to Ohio State after two years at Indiana. Didn't do a whole lot at Indiana.
Did miss most of last season with a torn meniscus. On the other end of the spectrum, Ohio State has now lost four players to the transfer portal. Aaron Bradshaw, Meachie Johnson Jr., Evan Mahaffey, and Austin Parks. No big or shocking losses there, but, you know, there's certainly more work that needs to be done. I think the Buckeyes need to add at least two probably free or more transfers, particularly a center and a wing. Andy, first of all, what are your thoughts on the addition of Gabe Cupp?
And then are there other names out there that you're monitoring right now as guys who could potentially join him in this transfer class?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, there's several. So just to start with Gabe Cupps, I think it's very much a wait and see with me on him. Just my personal take on it, it's he just hasn't shown a lot yet in his college career.
Jake Diebler, I know Ohio State, generally the team views him as a grinder, as a very hard worker. And I think he's got that reputation from Indiana, a guy who is going to do all he can to get the best out of himself, the best for his team. What exactly is his ceiling?
Because Ohio State needs guard depth this year. I think it was something significantly that hurt them this year that they didn't really have great options off the bench. After Meachie Johnson Jr. sat out the last 22 games of the season, they didn't have great options to come in and spell Micah Parrish, Bruce Thornton, and John Mobley Jr. Having Tyson Chapman back healthy will help with that this year. Maybe incoming freshman Dorian Jones can do some things with that. But that's what Gabe Cupps' role is going to be. They're not counting on him to be a starter, which is good, but he's going to have to provide a significant role and play significant minutes for the team.
What is his ceiling? Is he going to give you that boost off the bench? Focusing on the portal targets right now.
Center and wing. I think Jonathan Powell is a very likely name to watch on the wing. Also an Ohio guy, averaged eight points a game last year at West Virginia, did some nice things there.
I think he's got a three-point shot, was 35% from behind the arc last year, but I think that number can get even higher. And one area where Ohio State, I think, took steps as a team last year, there were some areas where they lacked in development, but they did, like a lot of guys, took a jump as three-point shooters. And so I think Jonathan Powell has that ability to be a guy on the wing and really do that.
So I think those are kind of the top two targets that I would look at it on the wing from the portal. There's some other guys that you would like to see them go after, but are going to be really coveted portal prospects, maybe more realistic is Colby Duncan out at Campbell. That's another name to watch.
I had that center need. I think Christoph Tilley is the guy they've had the strongest confirmed connection with so far, I think. Had a Zoom call with Ohio State.
He's out of Santa Clara. Shoots some three-ball a little bit for that, can be kind of a stretch five, but 12.2 points per game. More than anything, he's has come from the inside and a guy that can shoot a really high percentage, be really efficient inside the arc.
He was 62% from two this past year, 55.4% overall from the field. If you're looking for a consistent scoring threat inside, he might be a legitimate option if his game can translate from Santa Clara to Ohio State. I just have my concerns about him as a rebounder.
When you talk about some of the deficiencies, Aaron Bradshaw, who just transferred out, announced he was entering the portal on Tuesday. When you talk about Aaron Bradshaw's main deficiency being rebounding, you need more rebounding out of the center position. At least when Sean Stewart wasn't on the floor, which was often because he was in foul trouble a lot.
Aaron Bradshaw only six and a half rebounds per 40 minutes, which is just really bad for a center. 8.7 per 40 isn't what you want to see out of Christoph Tilley's another seven footer. I'd like to see someone more in that, what Felix Akpara did for them in the past, what Sean Stewart did for them this year.
Someone with more of that rebounding production. But we'll see how it plays out if Ohio State can grab a guy that a Blue Blood actually wants, that it has to win a really hard fought recruiting battle for. It's going to be a real test for Jake Bieber in his second season if he can get some of these guys to add to what Ohio State is.
I think the good news is, it seems like a lot of their roster is being retained from last year. The fact that Devin Royall is out recruiting on Instagram, I don't think he's going anywhere. John Mobley Jr. already announced he's coming back. Bruce Thornton, things seem to be trending in a good direction with him coming back. So it's just about getting those needs addressed at center, on the wing, in general depth everywhere, like adding a third or fourth guy that can be from the portal in addition to Gabe Cupps, that can provide that depth off the bench. Because three bench points in the Big Ten tournament lost to Iowa, right?
They need more depth to get out there and spell their top guys, produce off the bench. So lots of needs to address still with those. I think three is definitely a good number for them to hit in the portal, at least beyond this with Aaron Bradshaw entering.
So yeah, we'll see how it all plays out. There's a lot going on, as you can tell.
[Dan Hope]
I'll just say this, if it's true that they're going to spend eight to 10 million in NIL on basketball this year, then they better be able to go beat out a blue blood for somebody. Because, I mean, yeah, I'm sure John Mobley Jr. and Devin Royall and Bruce Thornton are all going to get good paydays, but who else? Like, I mean, who else do you have to really pay right now?
I mean, I know there's been numbers out there about Gabe Cupps. I don't know what's true and what's not there, but if you're going to go spend, you got to go get a couple premier players. You can't spend that kind of money and get a bunch of guys the blue bloods don't want.
If you're going to spend that kind of money, you better be able to go get a couple guys that the blue bloods do want. And so we'll see how that ultimately plays out. Like I said, I mean, we talked about it before, Weber Ohio State can go do that, might determine whether or not Jake Diebler is still Ohio State's coach here from now.
I think he certainly understands what's at stake there. Particularly if you have donors behind you who are going to help you go get some top talent, you got to go close the deal. We'll see over the next few weeks if he's able to do that.
Ohio State women's basketball has some work to do as well, because a huge loss for them this past week as Cody McMahon, the Buckeyes leading scorer from this past season, a two-time first-team All-Big Ten player, announced she will enter the transfer portal for her senior season. Certainly not something I would have expected a couple weeks ago, but I talked to her after the NCAA tournament loss to Tennessee, and she said she was very frustrated. She didn't have a whole lot to say.
You got the sense, even of some of the posts that she had on Instagram before she announced her entry into the portal, that she might be frustrated with just the direction of the program right now. Back-to-back losses in the second round of the NCAA tournament. She alluded in one of her posts about something about wanting to play with more players who share the same passion that she has.
What I do know is that those Buckeyes are also going to have to go make multiple transfer additions, particularly in the frontcourt, because they lost their entire starting frontcourt from this past season. Cody McMahon, Taylor Fury, Asia Petty. Their only returning frontcourt player with any experience at all for Ohio State is Elsa LaMila, the center from Finland.
She'll probably be their starting center next season, but who else would start it forward now that Cody and Taylor Fury are gone? Really not sure on that. Kennedy Cambridge is someone who could probably play the three.
She did a little bit this past season for Ohio State. They have a couple players. You mentioned Chris Henry Jr. Actually, his sister, she redshirted this past season, as well as Ella Hobbs. She redshirted with an injury. They have a few players there who could factor in, but I think if they're going to be a contender next year, if they're going to take a step forward from these early NCAA tournament exits, they're going to have to go add a couple big pieces in the transfer portal as well, especially after losing a player of Cody McMahon's caliber.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, it's been a tough few weeks for Ohio State basketball in general. I guess when you talk about another disappointing end to the women's season and losing Cody McMahon and what's going on with Ohio State men's basketball, two three straight NCAA tournaments, there's a lot of improvements to be made for both teams in the portal. So a very important couple of weeks coming here for both the men's and women's teams.
[Dan Hope]
As for the Ohio State football team, it feels like a lot of vibes are good right now in all areas for the football Buckeyes. We already talked about what's going on in spring football. On the recruiting trail, you mentioned it earlier, a lot of momentum there for the Buckeyes as Chris Henry Jr. announced Tuesday that he was shutting down his recruitment. There had been talk of him taking official visits elsewhere this summer. Now he says he's all in with the Buckeyes, which is certainly good news. Because like you said, would I call him the next Jeremiah Smith?
No, because I think that's too much to put on anybody. But does he have the potential to be one of the next guys in the long line of first round wide receivers developed by Brian Hartline? He absolutely has that kind of potential.
So huge for Ohio State to lock down his commitment. That coming just one day after Ohio State landed a commitment from Blaine Bradford, the number one safety in the 2026 class. Getting him out of Louisiana, that was kind of a surprise commitment.
LSU had been viewed as the front runner in his recruitment because he's from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. But Blaine Bradford now coming to Ohio State, that's another guy. We talk about the future of that safety room looking bright, even after Caleb Downs.
Blaine Bradford, certainly another guy who's going to factor into that a year from now. And you add those two pieces of news with the run of offensive line commitments we've seen recently. Tyler Bowen already doing work on the recruiting trail, landing commitments from Maxwell Riley, Sam Greer, Tucker Smith.
Our Garrick Hodge said it before the spring started, it was really important for Ohio State this spring to capitalize on the momentum of winning a national championship in recruiting. And Ohio State's certainly doing that right now.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely. And Matt Garrett, man, talk about Faheem Delane in the last cycle, and now this Blaine Bradford commitment was there when they got Caleb Downs out of the portal. Starting to get a really good reputation as a recruiter here.
Look at how complete this coaching staff is starting to be. A lot of these position coaches are really like positions where Ohio State had had some recruiting misses in recent years, right? I think that a lot of recruiting misses are what led to Perry Eliano's ultimate firing.
So, and we know, we've talked ad nauseum about Justin Frye's shortcomings as a recruiter, even if his development proved to be really good. And so, Ohio State's starting to step it up at some positions where they were a little bit shorthanded maybe in the past as recruiters. I really like particularly Maxwell O'Reilly and Sam Greer additions.
Ohio State, I think, hadn't been taking enough quality four-star depth at offensive tackle at other positions in the past on the offensive line. And so, to get these two guys who both, I think, are really good and intriguing prospects and high-end bonafide four-star top 200 type guys is really just a step in the right direction for the offensive line recruiting, clearly. But a lot to be excited about with that Blaine Bradford commitment and just the general direction of where Ohio State recruiting is going with...
It seems every year their coaching staff is getting a little more complete in terms of great recruiters at a lot of different positions.
[Dan Hope]
I saw somebody make the point after Tucker Smith committed last week, but Ohio State already had as many offensive line commitments in this class as it got in the entire cycle last year. And I think that's something we've seen Tyler Bowen, one of the things Justin Frye was critiqued on, was not casting a wide enough net in terms of offensive line offers. We've seen Tyler Bowen be very aggressive in that regard.
And so, I think Tyler Bowen, again, to land guys like Maxwell O'Reilly and Sam Greer just a couple months after joining the staff, I think that shows you the job he's doing building relationships. There was a really cool clip that Sam Greer posted when Greer committed of Tyler Bowen basically bear-hugging him and driving him into the wall. And I think you can just tell.
Like I said, Tyler Bowen will be in the offensive line, and he'll meet with the media on Thursday, and we'll probably get some more good nuggets on that. But just seems like a guy who's doing a really good job of building relationships both with his current players and with recruits. And certainly, as you mentioned, that was an area where they needed to step up their game from a recruiting perspective.
So far, that's exactly what Tyler Bowen's doing. Still looking for more. Like I said, they don't want just Friega.
They want five or six offensive linemen in this class because they need to build that depth back up. And so, we'll see where things go from here. But certainly, an encouraging start for him.
And I think just in general on the recruiting trail for Ohio State, after a bit of a quiet start, they had gotten Chris Henry's commitment quite some time ago. They hadn't had a whole lot more movement in the 2026 class until recently. But now we're really starting to see that accelerate.
And that's exactly what you want to see after a national championship. Last thing for today, we mentioned Ohio State's Pro Day before. I think lots of impressive performances at Pro Day last week.
We don't have enough time to really talk about all of them. I thought Will Howard had a fantastic day throwing the ball. I think really made up for what was an uneven performance for him at the NFL Scouting Combine.
Josh Simmons, just to see him out there working out at all five months after tearing his patellar tendon, I think that was a great thing for him to really solidify himself as a first-round draft pick. Jordan Hancock, that's another guy. You talked about James Peoples.
That's another guy that I know is one of your guys, Andy, that you've really been on that Jordan Hancock train talking up how good a football player he is. And maybe he's gotten a little bit overlooked. I mean, the numbers he put up, man.
He ran, I think it was a 4'4", 140. Had a 41 and a half inch vertical jump that would have been the second highest vertical jump at this year's NFL Combine. I think he really showed what kind of an athlete he is.
And I think he's a guy who's probably not getting as much love as he deserves as an NFL draft prospect. I think that's also true for Ty Hamilton. He had a great day at Pro Day.
I think that's also true for Cody Simon, who had a great day at Pro Day. Emeka Buka is a guy who's already in that first-round conversation, but I think he helped solidify himself there with some really good testing numbers, good showing, catching passes from Will Howard. And then the two guys who really needed to have the best days at Pro Day, G.
Scott Jr. and Josh Fryer, they weren't invited to the NFL Scout and Combine. Still guys who were maybe long shots to be drafted, but I think they both did what they needed to do to give themselves a chance. I think G.
Scott Jr. had a really well-rounded workout. His 40-time 4-6 flat would have been the fastest 40 by a tight end at the Combine. And so I think he certainly turned some heads and put himself maybe in that late-round conversation at worst, a guy who should get quickly picked up as an undrafted free agent.
And I think the same is true for Josh Fryer. For a guy who we've talked a lot about his struggles with quickness as a pass protector, he put up some really good testing numbers. He really showed that he might be more athletic than people think.
So while I think there's still some legitimate concerns about him, about whether he can be that pass-protecting tackle in the NFL, I think those numbers, the length he showed, the testing he did athletically, I think that could have some teams thinking, this is a guy who's still got some growth potential here, but maybe as a late-round pick or we pick him up as an undrafted free agent, he's a guy who might have some potential to be even better than he's been.
And so I think all in all, it was a really good pro day for Ohio State's NFL draft prospects. And I think the biggest thing I came away from it just thinking was like, man, this is a really good NFL draft class for Ohio State. Maybe they don't have that C.J. Stroud or that Marvin Harrison Jr. who's that top five draft pick, but man, we're less than a month away from the NFL draft now. And I can't wait to watch it because there is going to be a lot of Ohio State Buckeyes here in their names called.
[Andy Anders]
Yes, absolutely. Like you said, it might not be the first five picks or 10 picks, but it'll be a lot in the first two days. And Ohio State, it's always great to put on this display too from a recruiting perspective, you get that national championship boosted, then you get to see all those names selected, which is interesting when you think about it in retrospect of like Ohio State's last two national championships, they kind of had a lot of those draft prospects come back the following year.
And then the big draft class was kind of the year after, right? When you talk about Joey Bosa and Ezekiel Elliott from 2014, and a lot of those guys were in the then two years later draft. It's kind of the same in 0-2.
So that part of it's fun to me. But as far as pro day standouts, I mean, look, I said it after the NFL draft combine that it's like hard for me to put much stock into throws on air. When it comes to evaluating NFL draft prospects, we've seen it work out where guys have really bad throwing sessions on their pro days or at the combine and then great NFL careers or we see the inverse of that happen all the time, right?
But for me, I think what I took away from Will Howard's throwing session and how impressive it looked, making all the throws, he had some ridiculous even off-balance deep balls. The two that weren't complete should have been caught. The thing that stood out to me is that Will, when we looked at him last spring and we had our concerns about him and then how much that was turned around in the fall, when you look at his combine performance compared to his pro day performance, I think for me, it's all about, he's a quarterback who develops great chemistry with his receivers.
Like the fact that he was missing on throws at the combine and then at the pro day when he's back with his guys, back with those Ohio State targets he knows and he's completing the throws. To me, I think it should signify if you're a smart NFL scout or GM that this is a guy that if you get him in your system for a year or two, surround him and let him get familiar with the right group of weapons, in the right coaching scheme, in the right offensive system, he could become a legitimate NFL quarterback. A lot of people have talked about his ceiling being a backup, but maybe he does have starter potential in the right setting.
So for me, that's what I learned most from Will Howard and his impressive pro day performance is that he's a guy, it's really important for him to get him chemistry with his receivers because that's what he excels. The other big standout, like you said, for me was Jordan Hancock. Seeing that testing, the only two events we really got to be up close with were the 40 and the broad jump.
All the other stuff was kind of a little off further in the distance and we really couldn't tell what results were happening. His broad jump was really impressive. It was the furthest of any at Ohio State's pro day with that 40-yard dash, with that vertical jump that you mentioned.
I think as NFL defenses and football defense in general has placed such a larger emphasis on that nickel position, on versatility in the secondary, I don't think Jordan's going to be around one pick, but I think he is that talented, that versatile, that caliber of a player for NFL defense. You can just do so many things with them, I think. And that is so important for defending modern NFL offenses.
To me, wherever Jordan Hancock goes day two, probably, I would think, but maybe he slips into the fourth round somehow or something, I don't know. But I think wherever he goes, if it's not in the first round, I think it's a steal for a team. As you said, I am really high on Jordan Hancock, especially so coming off of that pro day.
[Dan Hope]
I feel like I can already foresee the tweets from OTAs or training camp or whatever about Will Howard had this awful day throwing the ball and then by the end of a preseason, he's going to be doing way better because it just seems to be the way it is for Will Howard, to your point where it's like the more he develops chemistry, the more he gets into a rhythm, the better and better he gets. We certainly saw that this past season. And my feeling is we're going to see a lot of the same with him as he starts his NFL career, NFL draft again, just 22 days away now.
Busy month on tap here for us at 11 Warriors in April. Again, 10 more days of spring football, NFL draft coming up at the end of the month. Still got lots of roster movement happening on the basketball side with the transfer portal.
So we'll be covering all of that over on 11warriors.com and we'll be back here again next week for another episode of Real Pod Wednesday. So hope you join us, Ben. For Andy Anders, I'm Dan Hope.
Have a great week.