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Unknown
I'm Adam, and I'm Peter Martin, and you're listening to the you'll hear it podcast music explorer. Explorer, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio jazz.com for, oh, well, your jazz lesson.
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Unknown
You brought it back. I brought it back. You. Oh, man. Oh, I brought it back. It's back. That was fun playing a little chameleon in the open with the great Bob. Great record. Back. Back what? Oh, back it back. No! Chameleon. Oh, sorry. Now, today, man, I am, Energy's high today, Peter, because we're talking about. Yes,
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Unknown
Herbie Hancock's greatest era.
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Unknown
And then what's so funny is Herbie's had a lot of great eras. Yeah, actually. Maybe today. Yeah, I know, and this is this even jazz, this great era that he's playing. And we could talk a little bit about that. Yeah I know, yeah. And. No. Yeah. But it is stunning. So we're really talking about Herbie's,
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Unknown
headhunters era.
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Unknown
And that can be disputed about when that starts. And some people have a clear delineation, but it's a little bit more blurry is we're going to talk about 1973 to 1978 is what I'm counting. Okay.
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Unknown
And we can talk about the arbitrary delineation. No, not inclusive of such hits as Rocket or VSOp two. Yeah. We're going to take that off the table rocket.
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Unknown
So but we are going to start with Herbie's solo career, starting off with his first Blue Note album in 1962. What I want to do here is just set up Herbie as a young musician up into the point of 1973 when The Headhunters, which was his sort of jazz funk explosion, happens. And why that matters. All right. But if we start with his,
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Unknown
first Blue Note album taken off, and this is driftin from that album.
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Unknown
Oh.
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Unknown
Come on, man, I.
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Unknown
Scored. This is gorgeous. One of the few I'm not mad at RBG five for this one. I kind of like the campy, the piano sound, I should say. Yeah. Next up, we're going to just take a brief sample of some of these albums. Not all of them, but we'll hit some highlights here. This is from 1964 is,
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Unknown
Imperium Isles, which we've talked about on the podcast before.
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Unknown
This is eye of the hurricane. So we got a classic Blue Note sound throughout this.
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Unknown
Is definitely.
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Unknown
The new.
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Unknown
Freddie Hubbard here on the trumpet. We could actually do a whole podcast on the early Herbie Blue Note era, and we will at some point. It's so good.
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Unknown
One more highlight here. This is 1965, Cantaloupe Island from Maiden Voyage. Ever heard of it?
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Unknown
Tony on the snare drum. Wow. Interesting. Syncopation. During this whole time, Herbie's playing in Miles Davis, his band. Yeah, it's part of that second. Great, great. That.
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Unknown
Shout out Jeff Goldblum playing piano on this track. Sorry, it's Ryan Gosling, but I can. Oh, an interesting thing about that, Tony. So the syncopation, the back beat on the snare drum. Dude up get it's not deck jack, it's cat. Cat. It's on that and of two and the and of four until he gets to the end of the bridge and that which is so so genius.
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Unknown
Yeah. That whole run there his early run with Blue Note is absolutely brilliant, especially if you're straight ahead acoustic jazz fan.
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Unknown
But which we are, which we definitely are. But we we love sort of era number two after,
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Unknown
the towards the end of the Miles run, Herbie leaves a blue note and heads to Warner Brothers, and he starts a collection of musicians that will be later kind of,
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Unknown
morphed into in one DC and 1D, that band.
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Unknown
And it starts on DC and one DC. And one of our favorite highlights here is 1969 Fat Mama from Fat Albert Rotunda. A whole different vibe we're in to a new thing Buster. Buster Williams on the bass. Tutti Heath on the drums, Joe Henderson on the reeds, Garrett Brown on trombone, Johnny Coles on another.
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Unknown
Who's a 6969. Shit is banging that. Yeah.
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Unknown
We got the Fender Rhodes in play. I think it might be one.
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Unknown
I love these variations. You keep coming down. We. Just each one's a little different. But this is going to hint at what's to come through. Johnny Coles on trumpet.
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Unknown
For me. Hey. For example. You.
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Unknown
Could almost be like a Keith Jarrett vamp. If this is, like, solo piano. What? Everybody's playing here. There's a Herbie Hancock. No, I'm sorry, but I do. Yeah. 1969. Super interesting time for a young musician. Obviously. So much is changing so fast. We're two years out of the summer of love, and we got. What was that, 67? I'll have 67.
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Unknown
Yeah. There's always that, interesting. My sister Nancy, the great Nancy Martin was born in 1967. So Bill and Rose taking it literally a summer of love for no reason.
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Unknown
So then now he's, like, fully into it with Warner Brothers, the,
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Unknown
the M1, DC era. And then he moved to Columbia. Yeah. And he records a great album.
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Unknown
That is the album that happens, right before he forms the Headhunters. Herbie describes this period as like the music, you know, Fat Albert Tender. What we just heard. Light, funky. Yeah, beautiful. But the music starts getting heavier and heavier and heavier. He starts to incorporate more since he's not playing the sense on this. This is from Dutch doctor Patrick Gleason on the ARP 2600 and the Jackie Gleason son.
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Unknown
Little known fact probably not true fact. This is Rain Dance from sextet, 1972.
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Unknown
Oh. Oh.
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Unknown
It's Eddie Henderson, right, that we have here. Oh, yeah. Eddie Harrison on. Oh sorry. Annie Henderson on trumpet. We've got Benny Moppet and soprano sax which we'll come back to in a minute. Julian Priester on trombones, Buster Williams on bass guitar, double bass, Billy Hart on drums, but Clark on percussion on Herbie doing a bunch of stuff clapping that, piano, Fender Rhodes, some synth stuff.
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Unknown
The meat of this stuff is the Patrick Gleason, which Herbie talks about, and he would eventually take that away from the other stuff he's doing. But as you can hear, Peter, this you might not hear on an R&B station on a pop radio station. Not that Herbie cares that much about that part of it, but he describes that period as things were getting very heavy, like the music was like really intense all the time.
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Unknown
Yeah. And he just wanted to lighten it up. And so he started a new group in 1973. He kept,
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Unknown
Danny Martin,
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Unknown
the saxophonist from the previous,
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Unknown
sextant record.
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Unknown
But added Oakland based phenom Paul Jackson.
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Unknown
He added Detroit's own Harvey Mason. He was Detroit's own Harvey Mason.
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Unknown
On the drums. Studio King. Yes. Harvey Mason, bill summers on percussion.
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Unknown
Bill summers, very interesting character. Yeah.
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Unknown
And then they record what would become to be known as the first Headhunters album. And we know it's called that because it is called Headhunters. Correction Tours. The first track is a bit of a banger. I, I, I, I, I, I ever heard of it a little lighter, a little bouncier, a little funkier a I, I, I heard I, I, I, I damn I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I I, I I I I, I, I I.
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Unknown
I, I, I, I, I do, I, I but I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I. I'm glad that there I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I play right now I, I, I, I.
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Unknown
I, I, I, I, I Benny moppet on the fact I was using all kinds of effects is that effects that would become the staple of this era and then that Herbie playing the melody rhythm on the harp. Yes. Yeah. Benny. Underrated source of inspiration, I think for Herbie during this time, I would I was he kind of the connection between that muddy sheet.
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Unknown
Yeah. And and all into later eras, too. Benny hangs out for a while.
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Unknown
I, I I would, I would just ride in this groove for a while, man. Yeah, I now interesting thing to note. Is the bass sound. Yeah, that's a synth bass sound. That's an ARP Odyssey. Oh, okay. Yeah. So we do have Paul Jackson in The Headhunters, but this is a sound that you can recreate something I, I, I, I, I have a beautiful sound.
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Unknown
Here's Herbie on the Headhunters. Success, man. You know, there's a new found success for you that's happening right now. And I'm sure you're aware of it. As a matter of fact, your latest album was really taken off all over again. This is algae. I guess you were kind of pleased about rap and rhythm. 1974 stand. You know, there's been a lot of music, that Herbie Hancock has given to the world.
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Unknown
What's he reading? His name. You think so? This latest album that you have is doing quite well that you expected from this one, or is it the sort of thing where every album you do, you expected to take a banger? I never expect to have any of my albums take off like this. So what I was hoping for for this album, I was hoping to sell 75,000 copies.
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Unknown
I said, if it sells that, I'll be happy that it would be happy, you know? And it's sold over 300,000 copies. Amazing. Herbie, we say we take a break right now and let's listen to some of your previous. Yeah that's cool. It went on to sell a million copies and went on to be the very first platinum selling jazz album.
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Unknown
Oh is that right. And yes, it was the first one and
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Unknown
certified platinum. And with that success Herbie took this and ran with this headhunter sound. And we all got the benefit of it because you get a series of amazing albums after this, all with that funky sound one more time here. So that's chameleon again, 1974 we just heard and here's 1964, he just ten years earlier.
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Unknown
And years later, a whole other place, you know what I mean? Just like an a completely different era. And so this would start to define, I think this 1974 Headhunters album is the start of Herbie's greatest era, in my opinion, and that will continue on with the next album, which is probably my all time favorite album of the 1970s.
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Unknown
And that's a big plant, flag and planting. Yeah, because I see one a little later that they're all good. I know there's there's that I've heard we can refer to as the same way, but it's hard to argue with thrust because thrust has actual proof. Just before you do that, I once want to throw because I'm shocked by this.
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Unknown
Headhunters hit number 13 on the Billboard pop charts. Is that correct? 100%. It was. It was. I had no idea it was a hit on the Billboard pop charts, the Billboard R&B charts, the Billboard jazz charts, and the Billboard Latin charts, of course. Do you know why? Why? Because it contained a song called Watermelon Man that was a hit a few years prior for Mongo Santa Maria.
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Unknown
Right. And so it was a hit. Honey Watermelon Man, the version of watermelon Man, though on On Headhunters is way different, but. Oh, okay. Cool. Ooh! Unbelievable. Hoo hoo! Unbelievable track shout out. Yeah. Bill summers at a,
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Unknown
But as I was saying, the reason why thrust is amazing. Because actual proof is on thrust. And actual proof sounds like this boom boom.
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Unknown
Of course. I grew up in bike park. What in the hell is going on here?
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Unknown
Oh. Woo woo!
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Unknown
There's the Oakland sound. Peter, I don't know if you know that's not what they call the Oakland sound over, right? Or like Clark and Polytech like this one place I said Chicago. Oh. Before.
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Unknown
When I my one greater. New play this one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I butchered this. You got to live it with it. Live with it for a while.
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Unknown
Woo! That verb on that. Everything is dialed in now, this is the more aggressive record in a lot of ways. The headhunters.
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Unknown
Man heard the great roadkill of all time. Not the greatest. We'll talk about the greatest later. I love the way he comes. It's like. It's like he walks in the room, like, what's up, everybody? He wasn't here. He was telling me that right? Classic Herbie.
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Unknown
Former me the same way. These little motifs. They can't do anybody check out though. Peter, check out on this road solo. Check out how Herbie plays the form. Something I noticed a long time ago. He highlights the form in.
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Unknown
All the hits.
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Unknown
All text. Play the hits and play the form. Super obtrusive. We talk about it in a good way.
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Unknown
Oh, you got that from Herbie.
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Unknown
Playing the hits. Playing all the hits.
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Unknown
I mean, we we.
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Unknown
Pretty.
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Unknown
Mark. Oh, that's amazing moment.
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Unknown
Oh. Come on.
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Unknown
Come.
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Unknown
On.
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Unknown
Ask me. It's very violent. It's super joyful to the. Like a lot of people play is it turns into, like, do world music. You know, if they're light on their feet, nice. Then people.
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Unknown
Who are playing the hits? Man hits the song. Oh, I'm going to the B-flat. Oh, the crazy thing about them keeping the form so well, the form is super hard, super weird, and, like, nothing like they make it sound so natural. Like the whole thing is like. But they anchor the audience to it too, though, because it is a little bit strange for even our ears.
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Unknown
They keep like in his solo, he anchors us to the form in a way that when I was like, transcribing this a long, long time ago, I was like, oh, he's like really highlighting the parts of the form that keep the hits together. Yeah, he's not just playing through them and trying to make something cute out of them.
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Unknown
He's like spoon feeding them to you and then doing some crazy stuff around them that leads up to them. And that was a real lesson. I think this is actually Herbie at his most virtuosic, like this whole album, thrust in 19,
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Unknown
74 is Herbie just for straight up keys. It might be his apex. Like, it's just like he's playing, like his chops are in an insane place.
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Unknown
He's obviously super inspired by this band.
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Unknown
So we mentioned that Harvey Mason was on the previous album, Headhunters. However, Mason, very busy studio drummer, so couldn't join the band officially. But Paul Jackson had a friend from Oakland from the Bay area, a drummer named Mike Clark. Yeah. And so,
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Unknown
Herbie asked Mike to be in the band.
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Unknown
Mike is like a bebop drummer in Oakland wanting to do that primarily and but has this vibe with Paul Jackson. Yeah. And there's this sound coming out of Oakland tower power coming out of Oakland, like these great bands that sound a lot like that one slide of Sly and famous Stone family Stone of the Bay area. And like this sound, I think defined this 1974 and on.
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Unknown
Yeah. And there's a lot of great lore around actual proof. The tune we just heard, you know, this was on Columbia, and apparently the record exactly did not like this sound because it sounded really scattershot. They wanted they wanted a more commercial sound, one of the version of actual proof. Yeah. And Herbie said, let us do one take the way that we want to do it.
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Unknown
And if we can't get in one take, we'll do it your way. Well, and they nailed this in one take.
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Unknown
My words of Frank Sinatra, I'll do it my way. Mike Clark says, when I got with Herbie, I was able to unleash all of my ideas that I've been developing. It was like I was born for that van.
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Unknown
Let's hear a little bit of the actual proof. Drum split. Peter Woo. Just the drums.
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Unknown
Oh.
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Unknown
That bass drum pattern. A lot of variety of the damn.
00:24:08:05 - 00:24:23:09
Unknown
Mike Clark mentions Bernard Purdie is an influence for this, and he's taking that idea and yeah, with it.
00:24:23:11 - 00:24:42:02
Unknown
I love it. It's just like, look at they go on all all you. I love that you can hear. There's this push and pull to the time to. It's not this metronomic thing that's been quantized to death. It has this life. Yeah. That's it's not like. It's like he's missing stuff or it's bad time. It's just. It feels like a human being is playing this.
00:24:42:04 - 00:24:44:08
Unknown
Yeah. Very incredible,
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Unknown
very precise drumming, but it's there's still has this looseness to it. Here's I hear Purdie pretty Purdie for sure. Also Tony Williams for sure. Like the snare drum stuff. The man here's a space Paul Jackson.
00:25:05:23 - 00:25:18:07
Unknown
I think he came.
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Unknown
One of the great dynamic duos of the entire 1970s, by the way, they put out an amazing VHS tape in the late 80s, early 90s, I think Peter, or VHS, VHS. And you can find that on YouTube. Just just YouTube, Paul Jackson and Mike Clark. And it's just the two of them being like, I don't know, here's how we be funky.
00:25:36:04 - 00:25:55:00
Unknown
And they just play like that and you're just like, okay, that's really funky. Can I tell my Paul Jackson story now? Oh, you want me to say no? You got it. Okay, so Paul Jackson's super nice guy. This is like 1998 maybe, or somewhere in the late night. Damn, you're old. Yeah, exactly. I was, and I was kind of old, did I wasn't I wasn't the spring chicken that we know.
00:25:55:02 - 00:26:09:20
Unknown
Going to Japan flying on Japan Airlines, Jal with Brian Blade, Christopher Thomas, Joshua Redman, Peter Bernstein, Jeff. Some names them names of my friends. Okay, so that was the Joshua Redman Quintet. I guess at the time we were going over to do a little Japan tour.
00:26:09:20 - 00:26:12:13
Unknown
This gentleman on the airplane, American,
00:26:12:13 - 00:26:17:19
Unknown
who is I don't know how we struck up a conversation with him and he's like, oh, yeah, cause he's like, you guys, musicians, band or something.
00:26:17:20 - 00:26:33:07
Unknown
We were. And I said, yeah, you know, we've been doing this. He's like, oh, I know what you guys. I'm Paul Jackson. I was like, Holy shit, de Paul Jackson. Yeah. And he's like, oh no, you know, I'm just Paul Jackson. And so we get to talking and he's been living in Japan for a while. Then I think he was married to a Japanese woman.
00:26:33:13 - 00:26:34:01
Unknown
And
00:26:34:01 - 00:26:50:13
Unknown
I mean, like living there because we're on the plane. And then he's like, he's super, like, outgoing, like the flight attendant. He's like, man, I know these musicians. And he starts talking to Japanese to the flight attendant. Wow, was that didn't you? Japanese there. You can't don't. I got to go. I got to wash my. So that's good.
00:26:50:13 - 00:26:51:17
Unknown
Yeah, that's all I know.
00:26:51:17 - 00:27:02:04
Unknown
But yeah. So then he's like, man, how long are you guys going to be in Tokyo? And I was like, we're going to be there like six days. Oh man, we got to hang out. I'm just like, oh man. So he invites us. This was like early in the days of the Apple Store.
00:27:02:04 - 00:27:18:14
Unknown
Okay. In fact, there might have I don't think I been in one. So exciting. Yeah. And now he's like, man, you guys, we're gonna go to the Apple Store. So, you know, I'll meet you guys there tomorrow at 11:00. All right? And then I'll take you to get some food and stuff. We're like, oh, wow. Hell yeah. And so we go there and he's like, we're looking at all this stuff.
00:27:18:14 - 00:27:30:09
Unknown
He's super like talking to people in Japanese and introducing us. Super outgoing. And I remember he did a funny thing. He's like, what's the name of you guys new record? I don't know. Whatever record we had out at the time, I think it was like freedom of the groove or something. And,
00:27:30:09 - 00:27:38:11
Unknown
he went around to, like, every computer in, like, the display area and, like, pulled up that record on, like, whatever it was, it wasn't even iTunes.
00:27:38:11 - 00:28:01:22
Unknown
It was just some, like, picture of it. Yeah. Each like before we left it, he's like, this is good to promote your stuff while you're in town. You know why? Why is dude Paul Jackson cool? But he took us to eat and he came to the club and super nice get. So next up for this band after thrust, which by the way, there's so we could listen to all of thrust, but we're going to move quickly through thrust so that we can get to some other albums here.
00:28:01:22 - 00:28:26:01
Unknown
Because this entire run I think is s tier for runs. Next up is 99 of S. Yeah, okay. We'll get to that. Even. Yeah. Just save it and put it in your pocket for now. Next up is 1975 manchild, probably the sleeper hit of all of these. This might be the one that that most people don't think of, but this is just an incredible fucking album.
00:28:26:03 - 00:28:52:04
Unknown
We got wah Bill Watson on guitar here. We've got Duane Blackbird McKnight on guitar as well on this album. We got Stevie Wonder's horn section as well. But risk was like some of the keys alive here J diverse, drawn out from others. In the same band though, you can see my clock. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
00:28:52:06 - 00:29:02:05
Unknown
I think. So.
00:29:02:07 - 00:29:09:08
Unknown
By the horns on manchild.
00:29:09:10 - 00:29:15:04
Unknown
I'm gonna.
00:29:15:06 - 00:29:27:11
Unknown
Bring up guess. Who's I?
00:29:27:13 - 00:29:37:17
Unknown
I guess.
00:29:37:19 - 00:29:50:09
Unknown
Steal those. Howard. Howard. Yeah. That was some influence that.
00:29:50:11 - 00:30:03:13
Unknown
I put these wah wah wah wah wah wah. Watson. Undeniable force of this sound. Yeah. So again, we could play that whole album, man. Child. We'll put a bespoke playlist together of all of these albums.
00:30:03:13 - 00:30:11:12
Unknown
So, yeah, Herbie working with Wild Lots. And Herbie says he brought this incredible sonic palette that transformed how we approach the music.
00:30:11:12 - 00:30:28:07
Unknown
It wasn't just guitar, it was like having another synthesizer in the band. And when your name is Wah Wah Watson, yeah, you're bringing the wah wah skills. I'm sorry, but you're know, you bring us pedal with him. He brings that pedal everywhere he sleeps with the pedal under his pillow. Yes. But incredible, incredible album. Manchild.
00:30:28:07 - 00:30:30:04
Unknown
And next up, keep going.
00:30:30:06 - 00:30:57:21
Unknown
Please, I can just we're going to say a little prayer here because as we all know, this next album, 1976, is. You know, saying it's important to me is a little bit of an understatement. It's not like I carry a four foot tall photograph of the cover with me wherever. Oh, yeah, no, I do, I do carry a four foot tall cover of this album.
00:30:57:21 - 00:31:09:11
Unknown
This is 1976 is secrets. I found this in a bin in a borders and I didn't know what I was listening to. And I fell in love that very day. And,
00:31:09:11 - 00:31:17:18
Unknown
particularly with. Oh, yeah.
00:31:17:20 - 00:31:45:00
Unknown
This could have been a soundtrack to an ABC movie the week Sunday night. James Levy on the drums, Ray Parker Jr on guitar. Yeah, another Stevie collaborator from right around the time, Kenneth Nash on percussion. Secrets is a commercial push. Yeah. Trying to get some hits going. A little bit of disco creeps in. The secrets as well.
00:31:45:02 - 00:31:55:01
Unknown
The mix of super and master super pop. It's sounds unbelievable. Fucking unbelievable. Excuse me for.
00:31:55:03 - 00:32:09:21
Unknown
A.
00:32:09:23 - 00:32:21:02
Unknown
Steal Benny Martin on the saxophone. Sir Paul Jackson. Who?
00:32:21:04 - 00:32:31:04
Unknown
Is a lot of really artistic players to this record.
00:32:31:06 - 00:32:47:03
Unknown
You ride around the summer and you got the top down and you got the windows open. You got your Dotson on 7:10 a.m. road and then County Road. I'm going down now. Mark, my mom and the Dobson.
00:32:47:04 - 00:33:01:02
Unknown
Maybe having some fast food and throwing the trash out the window. We don't care. Seven 1936 that's what you hear. That's what landfills are for.
00:33:01:04 - 00:33:24:09
Unknown
They track this woman. They try to go gentle thoughts from secrets. We got a little more secrets on the way here. Ray Parker Jr said working with Herbie was, like going to school. Even when we were making what some people called commercial music. The harmonics, the sophistication was still there underneath. And I think all of secrets captures that, that gentle thoughts, man, we should play that on the way out.
00:33:24:09 - 00:33:40:19
Unknown
Let's do that. Okay. We'll do a long version of that. So for some people, Peter, they say this is the end of the Headhunters era. I yes, I firmly disagree, I firmly disagree. The next year they would record another album that wouldn't be released till 1978. It is fully in the disco.
00:33:40:19 - 00:33:47:04
Unknown
Vein. It's called sunlight. It's got Herbie on the cover with a giant butterfly collar open.
00:33:47:10 - 00:33:49:10
Unknown
Yeah, a really great suit.
00:33:49:10 - 00:34:03:03
Unknown
A gold medallion looking every bit of like a disco star that he used at the time. And there's a lot of interesting things going on in sound. First of all, there's a track. Do you know this is a track with Jocko and Tony Williams? I know, yeah. Good question.
00:34:03:03 - 00:34:06:15
Unknown
And it's Herbie's first use of a new instrument for him.
00:34:06:17 - 00:34:15:01
Unknown
He was very good at the vocoder. This is the title track, sunlight.
00:34:21:04 - 00:34:25:23
Unknown
And.
00:34:26:01 - 00:35:23:00
Unknown
And if you run away, you hide behind this sign for you. Only to hear. Are you think your way. Don't give me wrong. It's start together. And it's true. Love is. You know. You were someone know the love. The song is just like the sun.
00:35:23:02 - 00:35:26:07
Unknown
Love.
00:35:26:09 - 00:35:32:10
Unknown
If you never get to see.
00:35:32:11 - 00:36:09:22
Unknown
Someone is gonna come. Great. Is that sound? Yeah, man, I've lost track. It's so long. It's so good. I can vinyl. It's amazing. I want this number one thing that, you have been wanting to play. So maybe you can tell me because you want to be in the. If you want to. You.
00:36:09:23 - 00:36:55:14
Unknown
Focus on something you need, Kill it, kill it. There's so much killing stuff on sunlight. I think this era extends to there. This is the vocoder right away in on its own. Elevator to this. So you only have to time somehow, you find your way. Down. Yes. Instead of. Yeah. So the way this works is it's not like a talk box like you would see Peter Frampton used.
00:36:55:14 - 00:36:56:05
Unknown
Yeah.
00:36:56:05 - 00:37:08:23
Unknown
It is a microphone that Herbie is singing into, speaking into, and it's going through a synthesizer. Right. So it's affecting it that way with the keyboard. Right. With a keyboard. Yeah. So it was a relatively new,
00:37:08:23 - 00:37:24:08
Unknown
invention here in 1970. It's almost like a I could totally be wrong on this. But my recollection is that it is it's like somewhat of the equivalent of like pitch correction in that it's going to go with it's going to line it up with the exact notes that are being played there.
00:37:24:14 - 00:37:44:13
Unknown
Yeah. It's almost like an organic, pitch correction. It's it's in a beautiful way, though. You should be an engineer. No, I should not, because that's exact. No, I don't I don't know the science behind that. I mean, Herbie has always been a technologist, though, of interest. Like, he's always been interested in the latest technology. Up until this day, I know, like, that's just always been a hobby in the way that he brings that in with music.
00:37:44:15 - 00:37:53:21
Unknown
What's interesting is this record, You've Got It Here as reaching number 12 on the jazz album charts. I'm assuming that means it did not quite crossover into the pop or R&B
00:37:53:21 - 00:37:59:13
Unknown
charts, as they might have wanted to in terms of commercial, I don't think it was as big of a hit as they probably thought it was going to be.
00:37:59:14 - 00:38:16:00
Unknown
You know? And maybe, I mean, I might be reading something this, I don't know, Headhunters might have been the biggest of all of these. I believe it was, which is amazing. Yeah. And I think, you know, producer Kayla would say that this era even extends all the way to 1980 twos. Mr.. I think 82 Mr.. Hands. Mr.. Hands, maybe because they were rock.
00:38:16:00 - 00:38:29:06
Unknown
It was like, wasn't that 82 or 80 2 or 83? Yes. I might have my dates mixed up, but Mr. Han's great album Little Flamingo on the cover. Yeah, yeah, incredible album. But I don't put it in this area because it's a little bit more. That kind of stands on its own. I'd say that, yeah, it's like a little rock.
00:38:29:06 - 00:38:43:17
Unknown
It's another thing, I agree, and he was doing like VSOp too, I think came out around like he was just starting. I mean, he there was more straight ahead too, but there was more straight ahead by the end of the 70s for sure. Yeah. Peter, what about your let's do some categories here. Okay. So desert island tracks.
00:38:43:17 - 00:39:02:14
Unknown
What do you got? Well, I don't know if you have this one up there, but I was thinking of swamp rat. Peter. Sorry. No you're not. I'm so touch that you would even say, oh, do you have that on there? Because I didn't I just I've had everything everywhere. Got everything every. But you know, just the fact that you would pick a song from secrets, it warms my heart.
00:39:02:16 - 00:39:12:21
Unknown
I was not expecting this from you, man. I'd be on the beach like dancing. You and I are better friends leaving this podcast and going in and saying something.
00:39:12:23 - 00:39:48:05
Unknown
This has one of the great moments in 1970s history. In my opinion, it's that first Trump film. Yeah. Like, there's nothing on here where I'm like, This is Herbie's greatest. I don't know why. This is like Desert Island, I know why, give it Tiger, give it a mean. And of course,
00:39:48:07 - 00:40:00:03
Unknown
Secrets might be the best sounding on a recent.
00:40:00:05 - 00:40:14:07
Unknown
Who has so good? It's gosh darn good for Paul Jackson. And over.
00:40:14:09 - 00:40:20:01
Unknown
Who played?
00:40:20:03 - 00:40:42:16
Unknown
Chad, I.
00:40:42:18 - 00:41:04:13
Unknown
Swamp rat again from secrets. Peter. Great desert island pic. They're incredible stuff. So I just, I just I don't want to be toot my own horn because, you know, I do love secrets, but that's both of our desert island tracks are from secrets because I picked. Oh, yeah. I know where you're going.
00:41:04:15 - 00:41:17:15
Unknown
Are actually. Sorry, I picked Beckley. I picked one from thrust, but. Yeah. That's okay. You like that? Dang. And I should have picked one for secrets.
00:41:26:11 - 00:41:44:01
Unknown
I could listen to this every day for the restaurant. Yeah, I don't know why, but spank on the. Well, that would make it the desert island. I know you would literally be. Listen to it every day. Only this. Just get ready for work. Put on my. Where are you going? To work. Oxford. Button down. All right. I to work here in the desert island.
00:41:44:01 - 00:41:50:03
Unknown
Well, I work remotely.
00:41:50:05 - 00:42:18:01
Unknown
Getting hyped up. Yeah, yeah. I'm.
00:42:18:03 - 00:42:24:20
Unknown
Here's the. I do want to give a shout out here to an old friend. Jason Van Demon, bass player, who now lives in Florida, but,
00:42:24:20 - 00:42:28:18
Unknown
had a dingy basement in Kirkwood. We used to rehearse in,
00:42:28:18 - 00:42:30:22
Unknown
where my sophomore year in high school.
00:42:30:22 - 00:42:35:05
Unknown
We had a funk band, and we covered Spanky Lee, and we would just listen to these albums.
00:42:35:05 - 00:42:50:11
Unknown
All of these albums on vinyl and a lot of Stevie Wonder and a lot of meters and stuff like that. And some John Coltrane. Yeah. And, you know, he was a little older and like, shout out to older musicians who were like, hey, check this out. You know what I mean? You should learn Herbie's solo on actual proof.
00:42:50:11 - 00:42:58:20
Unknown
You should check out what Herbie does on spank Lee. Like, you need some older folks to kind of guide you in the ways of some of this stuff. And. Yeah. And,
00:42:58:20 - 00:43:00:17
Unknown
yeah, shout out Jason Van Demon. That's awesome.
00:43:00:17 - 00:43:06:16
Unknown
Apex moment. Peter, where you got. Well, I'm gonna probably go back to just going to, on my mind, actual perv proof Herbie solo.
00:43:06:17 - 00:43:18:14
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, we listen to it and there's like four different places that are like. The great thing about those apex moments, you could say, like, the last kind of time, he just goes in, that goes steer or whatever. It's incredible.
00:43:18:14 - 00:43:23:23
Unknown
But each one kind of builds and it's sort of like, it's like this. It's like waves coming in, you know what I mean?
00:43:24:01 - 00:43:25:20
Unknown
And it just continues on. And I think,
00:43:25:20 - 00:43:35:03
Unknown
for this whole period, I just think like, because Herbie, the interesting thing, I think like especially on roads and just keyboards in general, he was often soloing on a roads. Yeah.
00:43:35:03 - 00:43:39:21
Unknown
He plays different than he does on piano, like we all do, but he does more. So I think for some reason.
00:43:40:00 - 00:43:40:05
Unknown
Yeah.
00:43:40:05 - 00:43:58:04
Unknown
He really leans into like the percussive elements of that. And he takes that takes maybe some of the negatives in terms of playing in that style, where you can't be as nuanced and like volumes and all his amazing touch. He doesn't worry about that. He just sort of changes his thing up, you know? Would you say greatest electric pianists ever?
00:43:58:06 - 00:44:04:12
Unknown
Hey, Stevie, I have to put him a little above Stevie. I mean, just as well George Duke. Yeah. George Duke.
00:44:04:12 - 00:44:08:16
Unknown
Joe sample, you got to put your sample chick Corea. You gotta put chicken there. Yeah.
00:44:08:16 - 00:44:13:08
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, Herbie's. I don't think he put anybody above him. Yeah, I put him in that group, so it's funny.
00:44:13:08 - 00:44:22:01
Unknown
So my apex moment. Yeah. You got to include Joe. Yeah. So my apex moment is another Rhodes solo. It's from Greg Filling Gaines. Greg filling Gaines is in that group. Him in there.
00:44:22:01 - 00:44:34:09
Unknown
Is I have another Rhodes solo. This one is from secrets. This is from people music. And it's a little more subdued than the actual proof solo, but the moment where it kicks in is one of my all time Apex Legends.
00:44:34:10 - 00:44:43:02
Unknown
It's about 2.5 minutes into the song, we'll break down.
00:44:43:03 - 00:44:54:07
Unknown
Oh yeah. Folksy. Just pure. Just realize it's about time. Yeah. This is gonna be.
00:44:54:09 - 00:45:23:10
Unknown
You.
00:45:23:12 - 00:45:44:08
Unknown
Be. On, That pulse.
00:45:44:09 - 00:45:55:18
Unknown
Trim.
00:46:06:10 - 00:46:29:00
Unknown
Thanks for. Of the diminished. Maybe you.
00:46:29:02 - 00:46:41:15
Unknown
Use.
00:46:41:17 - 00:46:58:06
Unknown
Cut! We got great high fives and cigars all around after that. And for sure, that's a great one. That's a perfect one. And, I mean, it's all that build up. You know what I mean to it. That's a whole moment is the build up. It's it doesn't work without about 90s of just like, yes, big beautiful synth pads.
00:46:58:08 - 00:47:18:05
Unknown
Yeah. And that's what stuff planning on you want to you want to add a little sheen. You want to add a little pizzazz, man. No, no, no. I'm serious. I want to add some sparkle. Do your live show. Get you good percussionists. That's right. Good percussionists in the comments. Shout yourselves out because you do. You're often overlooked, but you are essential to adding some really good sugar to the show.
00:47:18:05 - 00:47:21:09
Unknown
So thank you. Peter, what do you got for a bespoke playlist title?
00:47:21:09 - 00:47:32:05
Unknown
I have a crappie once again, be yours for. I came up with some. I've got Afro futuristic daydream. So the cover of these are all this, like, Afro futuristic inspired art. They're unbelievable. Especially those headhunters,
00:47:32:05 - 00:47:37:11
Unknown
you know, thrust has the cover with just Herbie and a spaceship controlled by a.
00:47:37:11 - 00:47:56:15
Unknown
It's like a ball is controlled by a round keyboard. Caleb, can you put that up? It's like a drawing. Dude, it is so incredible. Yeah. My other playlist title would be synth space funk. Synth space rock because of that specific cover, right? I, I, I'm a funky vamp in the 70s. Forget that. But I'm thinking something like, would you say sub?
00:47:56:15 - 00:48:13:14
Unknown
Forget it. Okay, I'm thinking something like Herbie, you know, Herbie's, side, you know, side departure. Forget it, I like yours. Let's keep going. Okay. It's up next. Up next, I've got Stevie songs in the Key of Life. I think it's the perfect. The perfect pairing to. Yeah, and that's right in the middle of this period.
00:48:13:14 - 00:48:16:16
Unknown
I've got mysterious traveler Weather report a little earlier, but, like.
00:48:16:16 - 00:48:37:04
Unknown
Or it could be any kind of like Birdland Weather Report. But I like Mysterious Traveler. I think that's, like, a lot of cool early sounds. And then him at the roads and obviously Wayne Short in that connection with Herbie. That's always a nice counterpoint going there. Cool. It's just not funky. I'm talking, of course, I really have no quibble, but this is one of my favorite areas in music history.
00:48:37:04 - 00:48:53:11
Unknown
This is my favorite artist in this era. So I have, Peter's got a look on his face. I have this thing have equivalent. You got bits to quibble. What you got? I got some bits to quibble. All right. Herbie's barely playing piano on any of these, right. Oh, give me a break. And I think he's one of the greatest just pianist.
00:48:53:11 - 00:49:12:11
Unknown
We, you know, talk about Keith Jarrett, Chick Corea, jovial, but I mean, like, especially like Keith McCoy Tyner. Yeah. Keith McCoy, chick and Herbie to me from this period. Like guys that I got to meet and be around, some of which are still with us, but just got to know them on the records, such masters of the instrument.
00:49:12:11 - 00:49:33:03
Unknown
Right. And so Herbie's incredible keyboard is probably top five on the keyboard, but there's no piano and I still think his piano playing is above his keyboard playing as much as you can separate. So that's a small quibble bit because again, top five keyboards, you can't go wrong with that quibble. Your bit. Yeah. You know, he was making like VSOp through this and some acoustic albums and so about stuff that's on this table.
00:49:33:09 - 00:49:46:07
Unknown
But he was giving you that in the 70s as well. But this I don't know, I don't think the sound would have matched some of this stuff. So no, no, I'm just don't I'm saying with everything that we listened to, the only quibble I has that we didn't hear, I'm playing the piano. Sumi. I'm a traditionalist. Nevermind. What do you got?
00:49:46:09 - 00:50:05:02
Unknown
I got three, I've got four. Yeah. It's, it's pretty accessible. Yeah, but I don't know. Is it better than Kobe? No. Yes. But what? Which one? The entire secrets. All of them. How could you compare an era to an album? Is Headhunters better than KP? In my opinion, yes. Wait, is Russ better than Kobe? In my opinion, yes.
00:50:05:03 - 00:50:29:02
Unknown
Is manchild better than Kobe? In my opinion, no. Is secrets better than Kobe? In my opinion, yes. Is sunlight better than Kobe? In my opinion, no. Right. Okay, so. But okay. In general I is wrong. No accouterments. I'm going to say seven. I like all these covers except sunlight. I remember when I first saw it I was like, is he is this Herbie is like like, am I buying insurance from him?
00:50:29:02 - 00:50:44:14
Unknown
Is he a 70s used car salesman? What's going on here? You know, I got ten coloring on it. The rest. This one's the best. Is incredible. No thrust is the best. But this is. This is the. But this is amazing. But this is one of the greatest album cover secrets. Just somebody's face. Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:50:44:14 - 00:50:57:23
Unknown
And then, like, he's. Is he at the beach? He is in the beach. The inside album covers him without a shirt, kind of his arms crossed like this. And he's very spiritual side. Right. And he looks incredible and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think ten out of ten.
00:50:57:23 - 00:51:05:06
Unknown
Okay. So please leave us a rating review on Apple. We're thirsty for comments on YouTube or Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
00:51:05:06 - 00:51:11:14
Unknown
Yeah, we do have another lap them up like a lap dog. Like a what now a lap dog? We do have a comment here.
00:51:11:14 - 00:51:14:12
Unknown
Here's another comment on our previous Roberta Flack episode.
00:51:14:12 - 00:51:24:05
Unknown
This is from Mike of comics. Another all caps great episode with another great intro, Jim. And so good to learn more about this wonderful musician, Roberta Flack.
00:51:24:11 - 00:51:49:02
Unknown
This podcast YouTube channel gets better and better. Thanks guys. Thank you Mike, and I've got a comment I want to read from about the, last episode. Okay, this podcast slaps Peter Martin Saint Louis, you can't comment on our own stuff. It's called self commenting. Come on man okay, self-awareness, self commenting I am somebody self worth. Yeah. Until next time you'll hear it.
00:51:49:02 - 00:56:28:08
