Journey to the Sunnyside

Join me for a conversation with Morgan Smith of Kalm with Kava, as he speaks from his farm in Hawaii about why people can have such different experiences with kava. Morgan has spent more than a decade studying the plant and working directly with growers, and in this episode he breaks down what kava is actually meant to do, why quality matters so much, and how to avoid misleading or low-quality products. We also talk about where kava may fit for someone trying to drink less, and where it may not. If you’ve been curious about kava but unsure what to trust, this episode will give you a much clearer lens.

Important note: Kava is a popular drink that people many people use for its calming effects. Please do your own research before trying kava. While we are fans of things that help people drink less alcohol, we also want you to be careful and mindful of anything you put in your body. By our own research, kava is generally considered very safe and non-addictive, but any substance can be habit forming over time. ❤️

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Mike Hardenbrook
#1 best-selling author of "No Willpower Required," neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert.

What is Journey to the Sunnyside?

Journey to the Sunnyside is a top 1% podcast, reaching over 500,000 listeners every week. It’s your guide to exploring mindful living with alcohol—whether you're cutting back, moderating, or thinking about quitting.

While Sunnyside helps you reduce your drinking, this podcast goes further, diving into topics like mindful drinking, sober curiosity, moderation, and full sobriety. Through real stories, expert insights, and science-backed strategies, we help you find what actually works for your journey.

Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, a #1 best-selling author and neuroscience enthusiast, the show is dedicated to helping people transform their relationship with alcohol—without shame, judgment, or rigid rules.

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Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. We’re committed to sharing diverse perspectives on health and wellness. If you’re concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. Sunnyside, this podcast, and its guests are not necessarily medical providers and the content is not medical advice. We do not endorse drinking in any amount.

Speaker 1:

Join me for a conversation with Morgan Smith of Calm with Kava as he speaks from his farm in Hawaii about why people can have such different experiences with Kava. Morgan has spent more than a decade studying the plant and working directly with growers. And in this episode, he breaks down what Kava is actually meant to do, why quality matters so much, and how to avoid misleading or low quality products. We also talk about where Kava may fit for someone trying to drink less and where it may not. If you've been curious about kava but unsure what to trust, this episode will give you a much clearer lens.

Speaker 1:

Okay, Morgan. Thanks for coming on today.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate you having me, man. I'm stoked to talk about Kava.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. You've got all this expertise that I'm excited for you to share today. And let's just start real simple, though. What is kava, and what is it actually meant to do when it's working well?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So kava is a is a plant that's been growing throughout the South Pacific Islands, like, Hawaii, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Vanuatu for about three thousand years. And, they've been using it really as, I mean, in a very kinda simple kinda parallel as a Polynesian peace pipe. It's a way to connect with one another, and it's a way to sort of, you know, sort through your differences and, you know, really build good common relationships and also help you chill out a little bit.

Speaker 1:

Makes sense. Makes sense. Okay. So why don't you tell us a little bit of your background, how you got involved with this, this Peace Pipe, and where where you've come to today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So about twelve, thirteen years ago, I was, out, in in the world. I was a young father. My wife and I had just had our second child, and it was just a really difficult time. Right?

Speaker 2:

Anyone, I'm sure, with a with a small family can can understand the predicament I was in and the the people that, you know, have have have experienced that understand the stresses that come with that type of a lifestyle. And, I was working in the financial technology sector, and it was just a lot of work, and it was just really difficult and long hours. I was working eighty hour weeks, and it was just it was just rough. So I went to my doctor and I asked for some help, and they prescribed me some benzodiazepines. They prescribed me some SSRIs, and they said that while the SSRIs take a little bit to kick in, you can go ahead and take the benzodiazepine.

Speaker 2:

Was a it was a Klonopin. Whenever, like, a maybe, like, a panic attack sets in. And so I had a panic attack one day at the office. I took a Klonopin, and I don't remember what I did the rest of the day. And it was really scary, you know, coming to later on that day going, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

What did I do? And I had to find out from coworkers that I was driving them to lunch, and I was making all sorts of decisions. And, I thought, you know, if you know, heaven forbid I have to ever have to take my kid to the hospital, that's gonna be a problem. Right? And I should not be on this stuff while I'm making decisions or while I'm having to be a a father.

Speaker 2:

Right? And so I needed to find an alternative. I looked all around. I tried probably 15 different things to see if they would help, in combinations of different things. And Kava was the one thing that I I tried that actually gave me, like, a psychoactive effect.

Speaker 2:

I could feel it immediately. But I also knew that, like, it was really helping. And, you know, I think that there's a lot of people in, at least, the Western world that they they want some help, but they they get something like a CBD or think there's like there's a million different things where they say through, you know, studies that it will help with stress or anxiety or whatever, and then they try it and they don't really feel a whole lot. Well, Cava is something you can actually feel, you know, right when you start taking it. So that's that's kinda what got me hooked into it.

Speaker 1:

Wow. So, you know, many people that are listening probably have the preface of thinking, okay. We're just gonna talk about an NA alternative here. So you use this instead of medication to kinda deal with what was going on in your world right then in that stage of life for anxiety and stress and maybe other things around mood, not just like as a way to unwind at the end of the day?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, I have to be very careful with what I say about, this kind of stuff because I'm registered with the FDA. I'm a manufacturer. I do, you know, I I can't market myself and say Kava will help with your sleep. Kava will help with your stress.

Speaker 2:

Kava will help with your anxiety. I can't say any of that. But what I can say is that Kava has helped me kinda chill out at the end of the night and helped kinda slow my thoughts as, you know, as as things progress through the day and things get difficult. And at the end of the day, I have something that I can relax with that's not gonna cause long term problems.

Speaker 1:

Right. Right. And I I think that's I totally get where you're coming from, and it's smart. Of course, you're just sharing your personal experience there and how it's helped you.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Now what I'd like to get into, and this is actually a question that I really wanna know personally, is that people have different experiences when it comes to Kava. Some absolutely love it. They're huge advocates. Some feel nothing. Some maybe feel a little bit weird the next day.

Speaker 1:

What actually explains these differed experiences?

Speaker 2:

So some people say that Kava has a reverse tolerance, meaning that the more you take it, the more you feel it. And that also means that in the beginning, you're not gonna feel it as much. But I actually don't agree with that. I think that, anytime I've create anytime anytime I've I've made Kava for someone for the first time, if I prepare it correctly and if I tell them how to prepare themselves, then they generally feel it the very first time. So I think that there's a couple of golden rules when it comes to kava.

Speaker 2:

The first is you always want to have enough kava. So a lot of people treat it like a synthetic some you know, something that's been synthesized in a lab like a pharmaceutical. Right? Because we're used to that. But kava is an herb.

Speaker 2:

It's something that's natural. It's something that it it has variability in its strength. You know, if you think about coffee and you have a coffee in the morning, if you don't feel enough of that, what do you do? You just reach for a second cup of coffee. And it's the same way with kava.

Speaker 2:

If you don't feel the kava, you can just have a second serving of kava, and it's not gonna be a problem. So I think that that's number one, is that people normally don't drink enough kava. The second thing is is that people often don't know necessarily how to prepare it. So either it's not the traditional way of doing it and it's instant, and maybe they're just they don't they don't use enough of that. Or or if they are using the traditional way of preparing it where you have a strainer bag, then maybe they're not straining it properly, which there's plenty of of instructional videos online of how to do it.

Speaker 2:

It's it's very simple to do. And then the third thing is that people don't try it on an empty stomach. So I always drink kava when I'm about three hours fasted. If you don't have it on an empty stomach, you're gonna have much more muted effects. So I think that that's generally the problem is that people are also well, they're just expecting something, you know, like alcohol, which it's not, and it's not gonna feel like that.

Speaker 2:

But they also aren't preparing themselves to enjoy kava as it has been traditionally consumed for thousands of years.

Speaker 1:

This makes total sense, and this actually answers a lot of questions that I've had. Because I've taken it before, and I didn't really get what I was kinda hoping for, at least a really felt experience. But then I was like, do I take more? And then, actually, I had a little bit of cargo last night and I was sitting there. I had we had some house guests and we were talking about the reverse tolerance and she was like, well, you know, cannabis can be like that too but I also remember people would say, oh, you smoke weed for the first time.

Speaker 1:

You're probably not going to get stung first. Well, I got stoned. That that's definitely for sure. So, it's interesting that you bring that up because that's another one and yet, the other point of topic that we talked about was because I was having a kinda like after dinner thing, and I was like, I wonder if I should be on an empty stomach, and that also is probably going to affect you. So it sounds like all of those things are factors.

Speaker 2:

They are. They are. And and it's kind of unfortunate. Right? Because, you know, people that are trying to get away from alcohol, they're not gonna be used to that.

Speaker 2:

Right? So they're they're they're looking at it going like, well, after dinner, I always have my, you know, whiskey on the rocks, and I hang out. Well, that's just not how Cava works. And so it is an adjustment to the lifestyle that you lead.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. No. That makes sense. I mean, I'm I'm definitely gonna now experiment with that. So when it comes to dosage, you know, is there, like, is there a dosage that you can go over where it's just like you probably shouldn't be going there?

Speaker 2:

Not really. I mean, kava has a it it it has a built in mechanism to stop you from drinking too much of it. It will make you nauseous. And some people might look at that and go, well, I don't wanna be nauseous. Okay.

Speaker 2:

Fine. Don't drink as much kava. Right? But to me, I look at it as a beautiful thing because it makes sure that you don't drink too much. You know, how many substances out there can you consume way too much of and have a real problem with?

Speaker 2:

That's a lot. Right? So to me, I look at that as a positive.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. What what are your thoughts on some of those early reports around potential impacts that are negative for kava? I'm sure that you're very aware of them and have your own opinions and probably your own science around that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I mean, I'm super biased. Right? I I own a kava farm in Hawaii. I own a kava company that imports kava from Fiji and Samoa and Tonga.

Speaker 2:

So, obviously, I'm very biased. But, if you look at the data, look at the World Health Organization specifically. The World Health Organization would not consider kava a food if it was dangerous. If you look at the FDA's own FAERS database, which is the adverse event reaction system, the number of records in there about kava are amazingly few. And all of the reports that you see online of really dangerous stuff, you know, you hear about, like, liver damage, That comes from one company buying from one farm from one country, being extracted and sold twenty five years ago.

Speaker 2:

And ever since then, we've never seen a similar sort of circumstance happen. If you look at the National Institute of Health, they say that there is less than one in a million chance that, kava will produce any sort of hepatotoxic injury, which is liver damage. And, you know, if you think of the millions of servings that are consumed every single day in America, you would see more liver damage in that adverse event reaction system. You don't. So I think that a lot of those issues are quite overstated, and, unfortunately, they continue to be parroted over and over and over again without any substantial data.

Speaker 2:

And the World Health Organization would not be approving kava as a food if that were the case.

Speaker 1:

Right. I mean, a twenty five year old study that's singular, we just tend to focus. Of course, I don't have the history in the background, but I think that that explanation gives deeper thought to anybody that's considering it to give maybe a one-sided conversation from a simple Google search or something that you saw on Reddit to actually, like, dig into the actual findings and the facts. So but speaking of that, that twenty five year old study, let's get into the different types of Kava itself on and also around the sourcing. But first, let's just talk about the kava itself.

Speaker 1:

Like, does are there different types of kava? Does it change the experience? And walk us through those different types.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. So I think that we wanna clarify a couple things. There are different types of of plants, right, of kava. So kava originally started out as a wild plant. They literally call it wild kava.

Speaker 2:

It was domesticated by humans and put onto canoes. And through three thousand years of moving it around from island to island into different ecosystems, different, you know, weather patterns, different watering patterns, different soil, you have, you know, the the cava has morphed. And so we currently have a little over a 100 noble varieties of kava. Noble kava meaning, kavas that you can drink every single day without having any, secondary issues. Like, a lot of times, they'll they'll call it a two day kava, meaning you feel it for two days, like, kinda like a hangover.

Speaker 2:

The kava that you can get in The US for the vast majority of of companies out there is gonna be noble kava. But those 100 varieties of of kava that we currently have, they're on a spectrum. If you go you know, if you look at a map, kava first start out in Vanuatu. It's, a couple 100 miles west of Fiji. And as the canoe plant went, it went eastward.

Speaker 2:

Right? And it kinda finished up in Hawaii. Now that's generalizing it. It went back and forth a little bit. But for the most part, it went west to east.

Speaker 2:

And in the West, in Vanuatu, it's much more sedative. In Hawaii, it's gonna be less sedative and more euphoric. So any of those cultivars in between are gonna be, you know, kind of a smattering of of both of them. All kava will make you feel, sedated. All kava will make you feel euphoric.

Speaker 2:

It's just a matter of how much of each one you're gonna be feeling, you know, for for that particular variety. The other part of it is that not only do you have the type of kava, but you also have the format. Right? So you have traditional ground kava, which is, you know, mainly popular in Fiji and Tonga, Samoa. And then you also have fresh kava, which is they pull it out of the ground, and they never dry it.

Speaker 2:

And they mash it up into a pulp, and they mix it with some water and prepare the drink that way. So you have your dried traditional that you have to strain with kind of like a strainer bag. You have fresh traditional, which you would also strain out with a strainer bag. And then there are some new types that are out on the market right now, like instant cava where, companies will filter out all of the woody particulates so that you can, you know, consume it just, like you would instant coffee. Right?

Speaker 2:

You just kinda mix it into a cup of water and and move on your day.

Speaker 1:

It's actually quite interesting. So I'm just curious what's your favorite type of I know you said that there's two main ones that create different effects.

Speaker 2:

So I I don't wanna get in trouble here. Okay? I got I got a bunch of different suppliers that all love their kava the best. I'm hanging out with a Tongan guy last night, and he said, well, you know, you're you're not really gonna get the Tongans to drink any kava other than Tongan kava. He explained, how he had invited some of his Tongan buddies over to have some kava, and they said, oh, well, what kind of kava do you have?

Speaker 2:

And he goes, oh, I have some Fijian kava. And they go, we're good. Yeah. So they they have they're very particular about the type of kava that they drink, and, they also really I mean, even from, like, an island perspective, they would go like, oh, well, I like cava from this particular island the best. Right?

Speaker 2:

So I will say this, trying to not offend anyone. I really like to have cava at the end of the night. Right? The house is quiet. The kids are asleep.

Speaker 2:

My wife is probably watching some TV show I would rather not watch, and I've got 15 to myself. And I can make some kava and sort of kinda do this end of day sort of ritual where it's a little bit meditative. Right? The you know, I'm not listening to any podcasts. I'm not watching TV.

Speaker 2:

I'm just kinda just doing my thing. And, and then I use that to help calm down at the end of the night and wind down and, you know, hit the bed in a couple hours. So for me personally, I tend to go towards the more sedative kavas from Vanuatu or maybe Fiji.

Speaker 1:

Got it. A very political answer right there. I appreciate that. So beyond variety, how much does the sourcing go into what ends up in somebody's glass at the end of the day?

Speaker 2:

So for me, it's a super important part of the whole thing. Look, you can't separate kava from people. Kava is an invention of the South Pacific people. Without the people, you would not have kava. I mean that because kava itself is sterile, meaning it has flowers, but it doesn't have seeds, which means that for three thousand years, families, you know, people like you and I have been taking cuttings of kava and planting them over and over and over again, putting it in their canoes, sailing off to new lands, hopefully finding land, and planting it again over and over and over again.

Speaker 2:

It's so important to those people. And when you look at the sourcing of it, you're also talking about people whose families have been doing this for millennia. Right? And so if you are working with people that don't really have that sort of background, you are missing a lot of what kava is. I think that, you know, when I we we've been working with with the the farmers that we currently work with for about ten, twelve years, and that really shows in the quality of the product.

Speaker 2:

A lot of Kava companies that are getting into this don't understand that the reputation that you have with the folks on the other side of the world matters more than anything else. And our capitalist way of saying, I want the cheapest, best possible product doesn't really work. I can wave a big wad of cash. I I'll I'll give you an example. I was in Vanuatu.

Speaker 2:

It's a small little archipelago couple of 100 miles west of Fiji. I was in a remote island called Pentecost. We were up in these fields with this guy I've never met before, and he had thousands of plants. And I was joking with him. I wasn't even being serious.

Speaker 2:

I just said, boy, could I buy these plants? These look amazing. I was really, was just a compliment. That's all it was. And he looked at me.

Speaker 2:

He goes, no. They don't, like, they don't value money like we do. Money does not matter as much to them as it does you and I. They have, you know, taro planted in their front yard. They've got some pigs over in their side yard.

Speaker 2:

They've got all their food that they want. They use money from Kava as a way to pay for tuition for their kids to go to school. They use the money from Kava maybe for some housing materials to build a a nicer home. But by and large, they don't value money like you and I do. So that sourcing of kava is very important when you start to think about that.

Speaker 2:

It the money almost doesn't matter. Yes. They need it, but they much more care about the person. And what that also says is that when you don't know them and you haven't been working them with them for a long time, they don't really care if they're gonna give you quality product or not. They know that you're only there because you're offer or they're they're selling you kava at the cheapest price possible.

Speaker 2:

That's not a good thing. You don't want cheap kava. And also, by the way, kava takes three to five years to grow, and then you have to harvest it and start all over again. So what are you telling the farmers that have been working for years and years and years if you're paying a bottom dollar price? You're saying that their time isn't worth anything.

Speaker 2:

And to me, I think that it's worth a lot. And so I paid top dollar prices because, a, I know it's gonna be going to people that need it and that want it. I know that I'm gonna get the best quality product, and I know that it's gonna be something that is gonna be going on for generations. I don't plan to stop this anytime soon. Right?

Speaker 2:

So I would wanna work with the exact same people for the next twenty years of my life, and I think that that really shows in our quality.

Speaker 1:

Yes, man. I I love this answer. I this is exactly why I wanted you to come on the show because you know this inside and out culturally from a product perspective, from a per person to person perspective, which is ultimately what everything's always about. You know? And we so we traded some emails, and you mentioned that there's a lot happening in the industry right now.

Speaker 1:

So you have supply shifts, plant disease, drought. Does that affect the quality and the consistency in ways that the consumer should understand?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Absolutely. In the same way where, you know, I'm working with these folks that have been dealing with me for ten, twelve years, they are much less willing to work with the people that have been kinda going around trying to find the cheapest price. When you have a a supply shortage, you mentioned droughts and diseases. In Tonga, there's been a drought for the last year, year and a half.

Speaker 2:

In Fiji, there's been, something called cucumber mosaic virus, which affects probably about a thousand different types of plants, but it really destroys kava. It'll go through an entire field of kava and destroy it within weeks. I know of a of a company out in Fiji that planted 10,000 kava plants, and all 10,000 of them died within months. And, you know, when you start to talk about shortages, well, who are they gonna wanna work with when there is such a small amount of supply? The people that are kinda wheeling and dealing and trying to get the lowest, you know, price possible or the people that have treated them right for years and will continue to treat them right?

Speaker 2:

It's a huge problem. And what that also means is that the quality of the kava out there is getting lower and lower because the supply is less. So if you're still trying to screw over the little guy over there, not gonna give you anything that's decent. There used to be a lot of good kava out there. Nowadays, it's becoming harder and harder to find.

Speaker 2:

I think in three to four years, that'll change as, you know, more kava's being planted, and they're taking the crop a little bit more seriously, and the supply chain gets better. But for right now, it's very, very important to work with companies that really only deal with kava. If if you're talking to a company that has a 100 different herbs, I can almost guarantee you they have bad kava, and it's because of that. They just don't understand the culture. They don't understand the supply chain.

Speaker 2:

They don't understand the growing process and the processing and all that good stuff.

Speaker 1:

Certainly. And I think that, you know, knowing so for me, like, the pricing around kava, I wouldn't even know, like, where's the baseline price? Anything below this baseline is gonna be sacrificing quality. And then, like, for take for example, you got wines, right? Like, you have really cheap wines.

Speaker 1:

You know, the cheapest to the cheapest gonna be pretty much junk.

Speaker 2:

Mhmm.

Speaker 1:

Then, you know, like, there's this middle ground of how much if you're paying a certain amount for a bottle, you know, probably a reputable company. It's probably a decent tasting wine. Then, you know, like the top tier, that's just premium pricing for marketing and it's been aged this way but it doesn't necessarily mean that the quality is any better. It's just been marketed or somebody is it's rare or whatever. So, I assume there is like some baseline when it comes to Kava and I I wouldn't hit you with a question of like, what is that price point?

Speaker 1:

But it kind of leads into part of this next question, which is if someone's buying Cava for the first time, what sort of, like, I imagine pricing goes into this, the checklist that they should use when they're deciding which product to buy?

Speaker 2:

It's a great question. I wish Cava was at a point where wine is or coffee is because that in those industries have such incredible criteria for what is a good wine or good coffee or a bad one. And there's whole host of people that, you know, they dedicate their lives to tasting this stuff to make sure that it's it's really good. Cava's just not there. Right?

Speaker 2:

So I think that there's there's one major thing that you should be looking for, and that is certificates of analysis from independent third party laboratories that are publicly available. If you're working with a Kava company or you buy Kava from a company that's not willing to show you their test results for every single batch of kava that comes in, a, they're not complying with FDA regulations, and b, they're playing with your health. They, you know, you you should know if there's pathogens inside of the product that you're consuming. This is Kava that there this is this is a a product that comes from countries without the infrastructure that we take for granted here. Right?

Speaker 2:

Clean water and power and roads. You know, they're super basic to us, but to them, that's kinda new. And so if you don't have that information, you could very well be getting product that has E. Coli in it. It could have salmonella in it.

Speaker 2:

It could have all sorts of things. And that's not to say necessarily that these countries are bad. Right? You know, we we hear constantly about strawberries or lettuce that's grown here in America that also has those problems. Right?

Speaker 2:

So it's not it's not just because they're in these countries that are far away in the third world or whatever you wanna call

Speaker 1:

them. Regulations.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Standards.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. But the point is is that anytime you get anything, as a manufacturer, and I'm a manufacturer, you should be testing and or sterilizing your products so so that the end consumer can get a good quality product. And so that's that's the first part. The you know, you have to make sure that the lab tests are there. And the second part is you can actually look and see the total covalactone strength on these lab tests to see how strong the kava actually is.

Speaker 2:

So you'd know if it's actually worth the, you know, the most expensive bag or or whatever. I would say in general, personally, I would stick with anything above $50 a pound, and I would shy away from anything over $70 a pound. That's you know, you're you're gonna get a good quality Kava in that price range, and especially if they have test results available publicly.

Speaker 1:

So I'm gonna hit you with this. So how should we look at, like, gas station Kava? Because I'm starting to see it.

Speaker 2:

Okay. Oh, man. Yeah. No. Thanks for bringing it up, because, it is something that is a little bit concerning.

Speaker 2:

I think that people are conflating something. When you do an extraction of anything, earlier, we're talking about cannabis a little bit. We you know, if you talk about coffee, or if you talk about, you know, any sort of any sort of product, you can extract it. Right? So you hit it with some ethanol.

Speaker 2:

You hit it with some acetone or maybe some c o two, and you extract all of the things out of that product that make it what it is. And it tends to be a very strong experience. Right? You'll see these 10 to one or 100 to one ratios. You know?

Speaker 2:

That means you only need a small little bit in order to feel that certain amount. Kava doesn't really work like that, and we don't know why. We don't know the science behind why a kava extract doesn't feel as good as traditional kava. It sounds very strange, and it doesn't make any sense, and I I agree with you. But when you do a kava extraction, it will never feel as good.

Speaker 2:

It will never be as efficacious, and you will not get the full experience of kava unless you use the traditional raw plant. And so whenever you look at those gas station things, they will always be using kava extracts. All of those kava extracts come from basically three major sources, in India and China. I'll give you some numbers that I think will be fascinating. If you take any sort of product and you run it through an extractor and you and you, you know, you're to get, like, the best possible yield from that biomass, you wanna get really good quality product because, you know, I just think of, like, I I'm a I'm a cooking nerd.

Speaker 2:

I love to cook. You mentioned wine earlier. Every time you hear a chef say, okay. Well, now we've got our our bouffle bourguignon. We're gonna be, you know, we're gonna be cooking it with some red wine here.

Speaker 2:

Make sure that the red wine you use is good enough to drink. Right? It's because the end result is gonna be much, much better if it's actually a good wine. Right? The same thing happens in the herbal botanical world.

Speaker 2:

You put in good quality product into these extraction facilities, and you will get a much better output product. In 2024, Vanuatu released some data. They said that, The United States on average was paying something like I wanna say it's it was like $50 a kilo for kava. China, where they are doing the vast majority of kava extractions and what the vast majority of gas stations that are supplying these, know, really crappy kava products, China is paying $8 a kilo. So what that tells me is they're using parts of the kava plant that are not good for consumption, meaning the upper aerial parts because they're lower in covalactones.

Speaker 2:

They're higher in something called flavovacanes, and they're just a low quality product. You would never you'd never wanna drink that. So they're using the worst part of the plant, paying absolute rock bottom prices, and creating this product that is now being sent overseas to manufacturers in The US to make crappy shots that are gonna give Cava a bad name. So that's my thought on it. Shots fired.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it makes total sense, and it comes from an educated background there, whereas I'm just looking at it thinking, well, everything else in the store is junk, and they consistently sell junk. So this is probably junk, and it's also cheap. So Sound

Speaker 2:

reasoning. Not gonna Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I I don't think I'd wanna buy anything on the health spectrum within a gas station, and that pretty much just got categorized for by that. But it did pique my interest to think, oh, I'm gonna talk to Morgan. I'm gonna ask him about this. So that's where it came from. So so with our with the Sunnyside, you know, many of our customers already enjoy Kava and and use it regularly, and they love it as an any alternative.

Speaker 1:

But we also get some pushback that we shouldn't promote be promoting or talking about another substance in replacement. So how would you respond to this? And I'll tack on this double barreled question. Does how does Kava serve a purpose for people who are trying to drink less alcohol?

Speaker 2:

Look, man. I I'm not even trying to promote my product here. It what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to educate people about what kava is and what it is not. When you search it on Google, you're gonna see all sorts of crazy stuff. Stuff that's wrong, misinformation by people who don't know what Kava is.

Speaker 2:

I know what Kava is. I know it better than the vast majority of people out there. It's the only thing I'm an expert in. You know? I it's it's it's the one thing that I

Speaker 1:

That's how you want your experts. You want your experts to be focused on that one thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And so, to me, personally, right now, I'm just trying to get the word out that kava is, a, safe, and, b, a possible option for people who want something else. Whether it replaces alcohol or not, that's up to you guys. Right? Rather whether it replaces a different substance is up to you guys.

Speaker 2:

But I will say, Australia released a harm ranking study a few years back, and it was fascinating because it was a part of this idea that, you know, they they had they had banned kava many years ago because of those liver issues that we talked about back in 2002, 2001. And when they were talking about reopening up Australia to kava, they did this harm ranking study. And alcohol came in at 98 out of a 100 in terms of its harm ranking. So if you think about, you know, all of the societal issues, and health impacts that come from alcohol, it makes total sense. Right?

Speaker 2:

It's it's terrible. It's terrible for our society. It's terrible for our economics. Imagine how many billions of dollars hangovers cause our society. And then you take, kava.

Speaker 2:

And so whereas alcohol was 98 out of a 100 in terms of, you know, bad, kava was a two out of a 100. So, you know, you have big governments, people with a lot of money doing these harm ranking studies to to see whether or not KAVA is really a problem or not. It's not a problem. It's really not. Now I'm not telling you to replace KAVA with anything.

Speaker 2:

All I'm saying is if you are living a life and you're seeing that there are certain problems in your life that are coming from substances that you don't necessarily like, maybe kava's an option. Doesn't have to be. It's certainly not a solution. You know, earlier, we were talking about kava as a as a relief for stress or anxiety or something. I don't look at it like that.

Speaker 2:

I look at kava as a part of my toolkit. You know, when I get when I get stressed out or anxious, I go for a walk. I go hang out with my kids. I go play Nintendo with my son. You know, I I talk to my wife.

Speaker 2:

I I do all of those things. I get some sun. You know? And then at the end of the day, if I want, I'll have a cup of kava. That's it.

Speaker 2:

It's a part of my wellness ecosystem, and it doesn't have to be a part of yours, but it's an option.

Speaker 1:

I mean, just hearing you say that at the end of the day, that sounds like a two, not a 98 out of a 100 compared to Alcohol. So, and and I totally appreciate that you're here to educate people around Kava for them to be able to make a decision that's best for them because that's how you make the best decisions is with the correct information and education. So thank you for for bringing that information to everybody that's listening today.

Speaker 2:

Of course. Yeah. No. I'm really, really happy to talk about it, and, I could talk about this for, like, six or seven hours. So if you would like to hang on here and talk for a while, I I'll I'll be here.

Speaker 1:

You know, I love that. And I I totally relate to what you're saying. That's why I'm like, immediately, I wanna laugh, but at the same time, I'm like, I get it because there are certain things that I could just go on and on about and, that you're just passionate about, which that passion is definitely coming through here both with your background, your connection with the culture, and just willingness to share. So if somebody's listening and they're curious, maybe they're a little cautious, what's the smartest way to approach their first experience with Kava?

Speaker 2:

Well, I always think about, you know, way back when when kava was first consumed and today where it's consumed in in countries, you know, throughout the South Pacific. The number one thing that they always do is they share kava with each other. It's not really a solo thing. In the West, it's a solo thing because I know so few people who actually drink kava, so I drink it by myself the majority of the time. But I love to drink it with people.

Speaker 2:

So if you're thinking about trying kava for the first time, I would really suggest buying some traditional kava, inviting some friends over, preparing it together, and kinda going through that experience of like, well, this is a little weird. I've never done this before, and this is strange, and it smells like dirt, and, you know, you all try it together, and, you know, you go, oh, well, this tastes kind of like medicinal mud water. That's that's weird. Right? But it's a good shared experience.

Speaker 2:

It'll numb your mouth, because it has something in it called kavaein, which is one of the main euphoric compounds of kava. And, you know, if you think of Novocaine, like, the dentist, kavaein has those similar kind of properties. Well, having that experience with friends is really fun. So I would suggest if you try Kava for the first time, invite some friends over, have some Kava with your spouse, whatever it is, share it with someone else, and talk about that experience together.

Speaker 1:

That's it sounds like a fun time. I like the fact that it's traditional. It's a process. It's connection. It's not just not just the actual substance.

Speaker 1:

It's it's a it's a process. It's a connection. It's community, and that's really where you get so much more benefit than like you said. The solo does work for whatever purpose you want, but there's also so much more to to think about. Well, I think this is amazing.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for sharing. I want you to talk a little bit about what you got going on. I mean, if anybody's watching the video, most people are listening. If you are, this beautiful Hawaiian background, you're out there on a farm. Tell us all the things that you got going on because it's pretty amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I actually think this is a mistake sitting out here because the sun keeps shining in my eyes, and, I'm probably getting all washed out. I'm already pasty white, and so it's probably making the problem even worse. Especially at this very moment, I'm feeling like I'm getting a sunburn already. You know, it's those the the British Isle ancestry is really coming out here.

Speaker 2:

But yeah. So I I've I've got some really neat projects happening right now. We're currently at our farm. It's called Puiva Farms. It's North Of Hilo on the Big Island, and we farm, kava, which in Hawaiian, they call it ava.

Speaker 2:

So we have all 13 varieties of Hawaiian ava here. We also have a couple of other varieties from other islands around the South Pacific, and we also farm sugarcane here along with lychee and banana and, taro as well. And so we you know, we're we're trying to help this local area with, you know, things like basic things like employment or, you know, we have, you know, the this food security is a big problem in Hawaii, and so if we can help contribute to reducing some of those issues here, that's that's kinda huge for us, and and we'd like to support the local community as much as we can. And then this year actually is our first year of harvesting our first batches of Hawaiian ava or kava. And it's fresh frozen kava, so it's very unique.

Speaker 2:

Most kava that you find out on the market is gonna be dried or powdered kava, which is great. That's what Calmuth Kava has built its reputation on is is dried powdered kavas from Fiji and Vanuatu and Tonga and Samoan. And so it's it's great, but fresh frozen cava tastes better. It tastes kind of like a more like a cucumber water, like a muddy cucumber water, but it tastes better. And the effects are cleaner, and, it's just a really nice experience.

Speaker 2:

And so if you're if you're a a kava person and you really have loved kava, you have to have fresh kava. It is like a completely different experience. It's really fantastic. So I'm very excited about what we're doing here. And, yeah, I I just I can't wait for the future, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2:

I'm I'm Yeah. Obscenely stoked.

Speaker 1:

Super exciting what you're doing. It really is. I love how hands on you are. So we talked about, like, the experience with Cava and some starting points, but I want you to give you the floor for a second to just talk. Like, if somebody's listening and they're like, you know what?

Speaker 1:

I really wanna try it, but they don't know where to go. So if they wanted to go and buy from you, what are some products that you think that would be good? Maybe beginners or maybe you already said, like, somebody drinking kava to try the frozen fresh kava. Yeah. Give us some examples where somebody could get started.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I always recommend people try traditional ground kava for the first time. So sometimes you'll see it called medium grind kava. So I own Calm with Kava, so you can, of course, go to Calm with Kava when we have sample packs and things like that. And I would try a smattering of of types of kava.

Speaker 2:

I would not try one type of kava and then go, oh, I don't like kava, because they are all different. They all taste different. Some are very piney, and some are not. And some have effects that are much more sedative, and some are not. Right?

Speaker 2:

And so it really depends on the person. I would say you should try a cava from Vanuatu, you should try a cava from Fiji, and you should try a cava from Tonga. Those three are gonna give you a really good sort of all around idea about what kava has to offer. And then after that, you can kinda delve in and go, okay. Well, I like kavas from Tonga.

Speaker 2:

Let me look and see what others from Tonga are gonna be similar. And so I'd always go the traditional route. I would always try to strain it myself and prepare it like that. And then I would reserve the instant or micronized types of kava for more like, you know, you're you're gonna be on an airplane or, you know, you're kinda on the go and you wanna you wanna have something, that, you don't have to sit and and prepare. The other options are things like we talked earlier about kava extract products, and I I personally don't consume a whole lot of kava extracts just because I feel like they're just not as efficacious.

Speaker 2:

But, you know, we offer things like gummies, or tinctures, which are good. Right? And they have their place, especially for people who are new to kava. It kinda is a is is a little bit of, you know, just just it kinda opens the door to what Kava could possibly be, and so those are great options for for newcomers as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I'm gonna definitely try them out myself. So if somebody's listening, what was the website again?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Calmwithkaba.com, and it's calmwithak. We also are on Instagram and YouTube and TikTok, and we try to be as educational as possible. So on there, you'll see, videos of kava. You'll see the plant itself, how we harvest it, how we grind it up, how we package it, all the good stuff, and so that way you can learn all about kava.

Speaker 1:

Sounds amazing. Alright, Morgan. Thanks so much again for coming on here and sharing today. Really appreciate it. Anybody listening, go check out Calm with Kava.

Speaker 2:

Thanks so much.

Speaker 1:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Appreciate it, Mike.

Speaker 1:

Journey to the Sunnyside