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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Viktor (00:01.582)
The ICC Men's T20 World Cup got underway yesterday, but cricket's latest attempt to grab the attention of US sports fans came just hours after the news broke of the sport's latest betting -related suspension. The cricket regulator announced that Durham and England fast bowler Brydon Carrs has been banned from all cricket for 16 months.
After being charged with placing 303 bets on cricket matches between 2017 and 2019, 13 months of the ban have been suspended for two years, but the three months of the ban to be served immediately could not have come at a worse time for Kars, who had been tipped for a call up to the England test team this summer. I'm Victor Kayat, senior journalist for SBC News, and on today's edition of iGaming Daily, I'm joined by Ted Ohm.
Clay, editor of Insider Sport and payment expert as well, and Martin Elliott, project director for SBC Media, to discuss cricket's relationship with the gambling industry. But first, before we get into the topic, now is probably an appropriate time to mention the lead supporter of the iGaming Daily Podcast. And that's Optimo, the number one CRM marketing solution in the iGaming market, who whitewashed the competitor.
If a new company is wanting to hit a 6 and claim a first free month of OptiMove, go to www .optimove .com slash sbc to claim said month. The link will also be put in the podcast episode description below. Now, Martin, Ted, thanks for joining me guys. How are you doing? Ted?
Ted Orme-Claye (01:42.682)
I'm very well thank you Victor. Yeah, had a decent weekend. Ready to take on the week as usual.
Viktor (01:50.478)
Good to hear, good to hear. Sounded like a true editor. And Martin, how are you doing?
M (01:53.108)
true editor. Martin, how are you doing? Yeah, very well, thank you. The first weekend without any domestic football, so good news that the Cricket World Cup has begun already. Exciting times for fans of the England Cricket team because I think we've got a good chance again. I'd just like to ask you though, Victor, how popular is cricket in Bulgaria?
Viktor (02:21.454)
Well, not popular at all. I don't even think it might exist in some form, but it's it's so the participation is so low that I've never heard about it, at least in my home city of a cricket team. So I can tell you that rugby or American football is quite popular. Football, obviously, is popular, volleyball, basketball, but cricket.
never heard a Bulgarian team playing cricket before.
M (02:54.42)
Would it surprise you to know there is a Bulgarian national team in cricket?
Viktor (03:01.07)
that actually surprises me and it surprises me that you know it and I don't.
M (03:05.683)
Yeah, they play in this thing called the European Cricket League which is not an official competition. I suspect there's an awful lot of Australians and South Africans playing in that Bulgarian team but there is a team that will wear the Bulgarian flag with pride during the European Cricket League preliminary stage in September I think.
Viktor (03:13.422)
suspect there's an awful lot of Australians in...
Alright, so are they playing in this World Cup?
M (03:34.836)
No, no, no. No, no, no. I'm not even sure you're in the qualifiers for the World Cup, but you've got to start somewhere.
Viktor (03:41.422)
There you go, like I said. That's right, well hopefully we can face England in a couple of years time. I'm sure that's the priority of the national sports strategy in Bulgaria. But anyways, let's head into the topic for today. I've mentioned Brighton Kars and his suspension from cricket.
Martin, let's start off with you. Can you give us a bit of a background on who Brydon Kars is?
M (04:12.501)
Yeah, so Braden Kass is 28 years old now. He's a South African born fast bowler who qualified for England through residency a few years ago. And he actually made his his debut for the England national team in 2021, I think, and has played in both the 50 over format and in T20s in internationals. So he's a he's a really good
Viktor (04:34.702)
in both the 50 over format and in T20s in internationals. So he's a really good promising player and there's been a lot of talk that he would be called up to the test team which is obviously the highest form of the game that he would get his call this year. It's a transitional period for England's fast bowling attack at test level. Stuart Broad has retired, Jimmy Anderson,
M (04:42.005)
promising player and there's been a lot of talk that he would be called up to the test team which is obviously the highest form of the game that he would get his call this year. It's a transitional period for England's fast bowling attack at test level. Stuart Broad has retired. Jimmy Anderson, or to give him his correct name, our Lord and Saviour, Jimmy Anderson, will play his last test match very soon.
Viktor (05:04.398)
or to give him his correct name, our Lord and Saviour, Jimmy Anderson, will play his last Test match very soon. There's a lot of players jostling to replace those two as England's lead bowlers. Mark Wood, Joffa Archer would be a great partnership. They're both injured a lot. So there's a really good opportunity for some of these young players coming through. And before this news broke on Friday, Kars was one of the ones...
M (05:11.093)
and there's a lot of players jostling to replace those two as England's lead bowlers. Mark Wood, Joff, or Archer would be a great partnership. They're both injured a lot, so there's a really good opportunity for some of these young players coming through. And before this news broke on Friday, Kars was one of the ones who had a really good chance of establishing himself in the Test team, but those ambitions unfortunately on hold for him at the minute.
Viktor (05:30.926)
who had a really good chance of establishing himself in the test team. But those ambitions, unfortunately, will hold for a moment. Well, really unfortunate for such a promising player. You gave a bit of his background. Tid, now can you bring us into the story itself? You've covered it on Inside the Sport. Can you give us a bit of a background on that?
Ted Orme-Claye (05:56.122)
Yeah sure, no problem Victor. So yeah, as Martin outlined quite well, Carter's a very promising player, he's been making a lot of appearances for Durham County and...
obviously the England national team through residency. He was charged with placing 303 bets between 2017 and 2019. Obviously that's quite a significant number really and cricket, similar to football, has a policy where...
I mean this is certainly in the UK anyway where it's governed by the cricket regulator. The cricket regulator has a very strict integrity rule which basically says that no one who is competing professionally is allowed to bet on any form of cricket. It doesn't matter whether it's in your own country, it doesn't matter which league it's in.
just anything in general you're not allowed to and I think that's it's something that this story does kind of have some parallels with quite a few of the high -profile football stories we've had lately really where you've had players betting on not necessarily they've not been betting on games that they've been playing in they've not even been betting on games and happening in their league in some cases but have still obviously faced the sanctions that have come about because of this because it's just flatly against the rules.
Viktor (07:13.326)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
Ted Orme-Claye (07:13.402)
I guess as well that you could if we're gonna get a bit more Maybe analytical is not the word, but if you want to draw a few more parallels I do think there's kind of some comparison here that can be made to the Ivan Tony case where he was He'd been betting on you know various games in the lower leagues and which were then uncovered when he was playing for Brentford and just before he was He had just before he had the potential to play for England and
Viktor (07:39.694)
Sure, sure, yeah.
Ted Orme-Claye (07:40.762)
I know obviously at the time there was never any comment made by Gareth Southgate or the England management or the FA that his betting allegations against him were any reason because of that but the timing of it was quite coincidental.
Viktor (07:55.854)
Yeah, and obviously the response from the football world was quite big. What has the reaction been in the cricket world?
M (07:55.895)
Yeah, and obviously the response from the football world was quite big. What has the reaction been in the cricket world?
Ted Orme-Claye (08:04.442)
Well, Durham have obviously had to acknowledge it. It's going to be a bit of a blow for them to lose someone who's such a promising player for a short amount of time. Although, as you said, Victor, the sentence is suspended, isn't it? So, what if it... He'll be... He'll only be out for three months properly and the rest of it will only apply if he's caught betting again.
The regulator itself even noted that he'd been very cooperative throughout the investigation when you got asked about it and when you got presented with the charges I think it sounds like he admitted what he'd done and you know expressed a lot of regret for his actions so I think they're all quite happy to move forward with really those mitigating factors they considered. Obviously I can imagine...
As Martin outlined earlier, the England cricket following will probably be very disappointing news to lose out on the chance to see this, who we've already said is quite a promising player, lose out on the chance to see him in action at this 220 World Cup, which has literally only just started.
M (09:08.28)
Martin, let's get back to you. Cricket has a chicken history when it comes to beating scandals. How does this case differ from some of the previous headline grabbing stories? Well, this is very different. I actually have some sympathy for Kars here, which I don't usually have that much sympathy for players yet caught in these...
Viktor (09:08.342)
Martin, let's get back to you. Cricket has a checkered history when it comes to betting scandals. How does this case differ from some of the previous headline grabbing stories?
M (09:34.391)
cases where there's an absolute rule, do not bet on your sport. He was quite young when this was happening and he had a significant long -term injury during quite a lot of that period which he was out so he had a lot of time on his hands to fill.
Viktor (09:51.15)
How old was he in 2017?
M (09:55.)
That's a good question. About 2021, he would have been at the start of this. And he missed, I think, the whole or the majority of the 2018 county cricket season with an injury. So a difficult time for him then. And the cricket regulator was keen to point out there was no suspicion of him betting on matches he was involved in and there was no integrity. There was no...
issue around the integrity of the games that Durham were playing at that time. So this differs a lot from some of the other things we've seen in cricket. This podcast would have to be about three days long for me to list all the incidents that have happened in cricket. I mean, just looking at the most famous ones, Hansi Cronje, the South Africa captain, was given the life ban for his role in match fixing.
Viktor (10:23.694)
issue around the integrity of the games.
So this differs a lot from some of the other things we've seen in cricket. This podcast would have to be about three days long for me to list all the incidents that have happened in cricket. I mean, just looking at the most famous ones, Hansi Cronje, the South Africa captain, was given the life ban for his rolling match fixing.
M (10:53.688)
A story which began with him accepting the gift of, I believe, a mobile phone and a leather jacket from an illegal bookmaker in India and spiralled into him trying to fix test matches. So that didn't go down well. Then we had the scandal involving the Pakistan team. They were not match fixing, but three players were involved in spot fixing.
Viktor (10:54.222)
story which began with him accepting the gift of I believe a mobile phone and a leather jacket from an illegal bookmaker in India and spiralled into him trying to fix test matches. So that didn't go down well.
the scandal involving the Pakistan team. They were not match fixing, but three players were involved in spot fixing. So they were agreeing to bowl no balls at certain points in the game so that bookmakers could profit from that. And that was uncovered by the News of the World because it was a test match against England. What was the repercussions against them?
M (11:21.176)
So they were agreeing to bowl no balls at certain points in the game so that bookmakers could profit from that. And that was uncovered by the News of the World because it was in a test match against England and three players...
the repercussions, wow. They all got bands of five years plus, but also they ended up in prison, the three players. So for, I'm trying to remember his name now, I think, Mohamed Amir, I think he was called, one of the quickest bowlers I've ever seen. So it was a real shame for him that he missed a chunk of his career. And he was very young at the time, again, he was influenced by the captain. I think, I believe it was the captain, but one of the senior players.
who told him, you know, you'd get away with this, it's no problem, it's easy money. And there he ended up doing, I believe, five months in a young offenders' institution, which is a terrible outcome for a young player who's pressured into wrongdoing. I think he was really harshly treated. The senior players, they should have known better. They should have known a lot better.
Viktor (12:09.678)
He ended up doing, I believe, five months in a young offenders institution, which is a terrible outcome.
young player was pressured into into wrongdoing. I don't think, I think he was really healthily treated. The senior players, they shouldn't know that better. I agree with you and not only it's a bad thing for the player himself but for the sport in general I would argue.
M (12:36.409)
Yeah, absolutely. And we've seen this. We've seen cricket actually take some fairly strict action. In 2000, the ICC set up an anti -corruption unit and they hired the former Met Police Commissioner Paul Condon to run it. So they've put in place some really strict rules and they have investigations that are extremely thorough into both match fixing and spot fixing.
Viktor (12:39.438)
seeing this.
This in cricket actually takes some fairly strict action. In 2000 the ICC set up an anti -corruption unit and they hired the former Met Police.
So they put in place some really strict rules and they have investigations that are extremely thorough into both match fixing and spot fixing and the rules are so, so strict. It's an offence not to report to them that you've been approached by a bookmaker. Even if it's just to ask for information, it's not necessary, the initial approach isn't necessarily can you fix a game, can you...
M (13:04.953)
and the rules are so strict, it's an offence not to report to them that you've been approached by a bookmaker. Even if it's just to ask for information, it's not necessarily the initial approach isn't necessarily can you fix a game, can you concede a number of runs in and over, that kind of thing. If it's just they come to you for information, you have to report that, you have an obligation to report that. And in fact, there was...
Viktor (13:24.622)
wow.
M (13:35.673)
Bangladesh all rounder called Naseer Hussain, who is, I believe, still serving part of a two year ban for not reporting an approach from an illegal bookmaker around a T20 game, a domestic T20 game. Now, you would think you would think all this action has stopped the cases. It's definitely had an impact. You don't really see it so much at the highest level of the game, but.
Viktor (13:51.31)
I think all this action has stopped the cases. It's definitely had an impact. You don't really see it so much at the highest level of the game. But there have still been incidents, even in the IPL and in English county cricket, but certainly around the smaller T20 leagues where there have been incidents of match fixing uncovered.
M (14:03.993)
You know, there have still been incidents, even in the IPL and in English county cricket, but certainly around the smaller T20 leagues where, you know, there have been incidents of match fixing uncovered. It's a really difficult thing for the sport to address and it poses the question really, are they catching so many people because they've put this system into place and they are really trying to catch people?
Viktor (14:20.398)
It's a really difficult thing for the sport to address and it poses the question really, are they catching so many people because they put this system into place and they were really trying to catch people? A bit like in say cycling, they catch a lot of drug users because they wanted to clean up the sport, they put a great effort to clean up the sport, so they are catching those people. Or...
M (14:34.392)
bit like in say cycling they catch a lot of drug users because they they wanted to clean up the sport they've put a great effort into cleaning up the sport so they are catching those people or is it just really bad is it worse than other sports it's very difficult to tell tell the answer to that.
Viktor (14:47.054)
Is it just really that? Is it worse than other sports? It's very difficult to tell the answer to that. Well, as long as there are actual efforts being made to balance the sport and alleviate it from such cases, it's still a check in my book. Anyways, before we continue with the conversation, we're going to head into a short break and we're going to be back with you shortly.
M (15:03.129)
Thank you.
M (15:06.553)
check in my book. Anyways, before we continue with the conversation,
Viktor (15:20.142)
Hello again, going back to Martin. Martin, I wanted to ask you, what about the unlicensed bookmaker sector? Does that remain a problem?
M (15:28.506)
the unlicensed group maker sector, does that remain a problem?
Yes, yes it does. It's a yeah, there's a bit of a nuanced answer to this. One thing that's happened since the the invention of T20 and the huge, huge success of the Indian Premier League is the growth of cricket as content for daily fantasy sports operators. So.
Viktor (15:37.39)
Short and simple.
M (16:02.234)
There's a company in India called Dream11 who are the number one in cricket fantasy sports. They have in excess of 200 million registered players on that platform. Because cricket is the biggest sport in India by a long way and also in Pakistan as well. So there's a huge audience for cricket. So the IPL is fine, it's one thing. The Big Bash in Australia is one thing. The 100 in England.
Viktor (16:10.254)
in excess of tune.
Viktor (16:14.862)
Cricket is the biggest sport in India by a long way and also in Pakistan as well. So there's a huge audience for cricket. So the IPL is fine, it's one thing. The big bash in Australia is one thing. The 100 in England, all these things are packed with big names and so on. They're ideal for DFS because the turnover is quite quick, the liquidity is quick, players aren't tying up their bank.
M (16:31.194)
All these things are, you know, they're packed with big names and so on. And they're ideal for DFS because the turnover is quite quick. The liquidity is quick. Players aren't tying up their bankroll for long periods of time, as they would be on test cricket. So that's all great. But the seasons only last a couple of months a year. So all these fantasy sports operators need other competitions. So...
Viktor (16:45.454)
long periods of time as there would be on test cricket so that's all great but the seasons only last a couple of months a year so all these fantasy sports operators need other competitions so sponsored by primarily by dream 11 but not only by dream 11 smaller leagues i've grown up on over the world in places like nipol for instance
M (17:01.369)
sponsored by, primarily by Dream 11, but not only by Dream 11, smaller leagues have grown up all over the world in places like Nepal, for instance. And what we're seeing there is that they're not just attracting the interests of the daily fancy sports companies, it's also illegal bookmakers in India because it's quite...
Viktor (17:16.91)
What we're seeing there is that they're not just attracting the interests of the daily fancy sports companies, it's also illegal bookmakers in India.
M (17:29.179)
In most provinces in India, betting is either illegal or certainly unregulated. But, you know, that doesn't mean there isn't a culture of betting in India because there really is. And, you know, the street corner bookie is a popular thing. But then at a higher level, where you're talking about bigger stakes going on, like, you know, thousands and thousands of pounds or equivalent in rupees, I'm not sure what the...
Viktor (17:29.518)
provinces in India, better years, either illegal or certainly unregulated.
Viktor (17:39.15)
That doesn't mean there isn't a culture of betting in India, because there really is. Street corner bookie is a popular thing, but at a higher level, where you're talking about bigger stakes going on, thousands and thousands of people.
M (17:58.523)
what the exchange rate is at the moment. And that attracts bad actors. And those guys, you know, the illegal bookmakers who are running their operations in India in particular, but also across other territories in Asia, have a real interest in fixing games and also in spot fixing as well. And that has developed into a real problem. So you've seen things like match fixing cases in the Nepali Premier League.
Viktor (17:59.15)
and that attracts bad acutism and those guys are the illegal bookmakers who are running their own business.
Viktor (18:15.31)
in fixing games and also in spot fixing as well.
Viktor (18:24.046)
match fixing cases in the Nepal Premier League. So very, very difficult for the ICC to actually bring that under control in the small tournaments. Right, well it's only natural that the more the market grows, the more dangerous it attracts. It's not only with cricket, it's with every sport when you look.
M (18:29.211)
So very, very difficult for the ICC to actually bring that under control in the smaller tournaments.
Viktor (18:52.654)
when you look at the numbers. To round us off Ted, can you quickly brief us in your view how would you characterize cricket's relationship with the regulated sports betting industry?
Ted Orme-Claye (19:12.346)
Yeah, it's an interesting one. Obviously in the UK cricket is not the main focus for bookmakers. Obviously the two biggest ones in the UK when it comes to getting visibility for a betting company are football massively and horse racing. Horse racing obviously is a given because it's...
It's a sport that's intrinsically linked with betting, obviously. And football is just by far the most popular sport across the country. Cricket, obviously, still does have quite a big following. But I think when it comes to marketing, it's definitely one of the least focused. I know that Betway are a company that have had quite a few partnerships in this area. I think they've partnered with the South African cricket team before.
I think they've had a few county cricket partnerships, Surrey Springs to mind I reckon. Durham County Cricket themselves have a partnership with Daffa, Martin I believe, you're a bit more of a cricket man than me, but they do some work with Daffa don't they? They launched this Daffa news platform shortly after this revelation came out about cars.
M (20:22.362)
Yeah.
M (20:26.364)
That's right. It couldn't... In an announcement that couldn't have been worse timed in many ways, hours after the story about Cars broke, Durham announced a new sort of streamed TV broadcast featuring the England and Durham great Steve Harmson, which they were producing in partnership with Daffa News, which is obviously the sort of the news arm of DaffaBet, the bookmaker. So...
Viktor (20:40.718)
featuring the England and Durham great Steve Harmson, which they were producing in partnership with Daffa News, which is obviously the sort of the news arm.
So that attracted the attention of social media critics, shall we say? Yeah, both.
M (20:55.836)
That attracted the attention of social media critics, shall we say.
Ted Orme-Claye (21:02.714)
Yeah, it's the sort of thing that is kind of an ammunition for a lot of critics of the relationship between sports and betting. I think there's quite a good parallel where you can draw that again really with what Mike spoke about at the beginning of this podcast with the charges against Ivan Toney and so on. Because there was a lot of...
There were a lot of comments made around that time, obviously Brentford have a partnership with Hollywood Bet and a lot of critics were saying is it not hypocritical of the football clubs to banning players for betting even when it's not necessarily betting on matches they're involved in or leagues they're involved in and then also having this visibility on the front of their shirts that these same players wear. Obviously I think...
It's a criticism, I can kind of understand where the argument is coming from but at the same time I'm more to a believer in individual responsibility at the end of the day and if it's a rule of the sport you're engaged in I don't think it shouldn't be too hard for them to comply with that rule when you are still allowed to bet on everything else as well as play at the casino and so on.
M (21:59.708)
Yeah, you saw the salaries. The salaries have to come from somewhere. And the reality is gate receipts don't cover the wage bills of top professional sportsmen. They have to have sponsorships and broadcast deals. And, you know, whether it's. Yeah.
Ted Orme-Claye (22:13.85)
Nah, they have to...
Ted Orme-Claye (22:18.65)
Yeah, merchandise, sales, it's a mix. You have to have a diverse revenue stream, don't you, to maintain something of the Premier League size.
M (22:24.667)
Yeah.
Viktor (22:25.23)
Yeah, well, I agree with I agree with both of you guys, but what I from what I've gathered from this conversation, you got to have balance and education is key. I think we need more education to prevent such cases from happening. And balance is everything. You've got a really fine balance. But I think you guys both for the time that you've given this podcast, it was really nice talking to you.
M (22:35.739)
Education is key.
M (22:45.405)
I think you guys both for the time that you've given this podcast and stay tuned for the next episode of I gaming daily I was Victor Kaya it was nice speaking to you. Bye bye.
Viktor (22:53.646)
and stay tuned for the next episode of iGamingDaily I was Victor Kayat it was nice speaking to you, bye bye