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The secret sauce to your sales success? It’s what happens before the sale. It’s the planning, the strategy, the leadership. And it’s more than demo automation. It’s the thoughtful work that connects people, processes, and performance. If you want strong revenue, high retention, and shorter sales cycles, the pre-work—centered around the human—still makes the dream work. But you already know that.
The Unexpected Lever is your partner in growing revenue by doing what great sales leaders do best. Combining vision with execution. Brought to you by Vivun, this show highlights the people and peers behind the brands who understand what it takes to build and lead high-performing sales teams. You’re not just preparing for the sale—you’re unlocking potential.
Join us as we share stories of sales leaders who make a difference, their challenges, their wins, and the human connections that drive results, one solution at a time.
Jarod Greene [00:00:00]:
I want to make sure I'm doing business with people that I can trust and have my back through it. And I just don't think we're at a place where it's like, yeah, turn it all over to the AI because I'm the decision maker. I'm the accountable party. I want to work with people who understand that. enjoy.
Jarod Greene [00:00:12]:
You're listening to The Unexpected Lever your partner in growing revenue by doing what you already do best, combining your technical skills with your strategic insights. This episode was taken from a LinkedIn Live series about sales engineering with our CEO, Matt Darrow. We hope you enjoy.
Matt Darrow [00:00:29]:
Thanks for spending the time today. I'm Matt Darrow, Co-Founder, CEO of Vivun. I started Vivun after a career running global sales engineering teams at private and publicly traded companies. I'm here with Jarod, CMO of Vivun. You've learned a little bit about Jarod, but how about your professional background? Jarod, right. Who are you from the CMO chair for the audience?
Jarod Greene [00:00:47]:
Yeah, so I've been in B2B or I've been in tech for about 20 years, which is crazy to say. Started at Gartner as a content specialist, worked my way up to a research analyst. So did that for a decade and then I left Gartner, started working at B2B SaaS companies, ShareWell, Apptio, HighSpot as product marketing leader and now I'm at Vivun as the CMO. So done a little bit of everything from both sides of the aisle and the product marketer in me loves the connection. Everything facilitates. So here I am enjoying the ride and spending a lot of time with you, man.
Matt Darrow [00:01:22]:
Well, hey, great companies, all different shapes and sizes, great background of what you've learned along the way. And that's why I want to have you on the guest today specifically around how can go to market leaders use AI and AI agents to empower their people. So if you're out there and you're in marketing, you're in sales, you're in presales, you are definitely in the right place if you want to keep up with how AIs increasing impact on your role is changing. And I actually wanted to start off with something that I know you're proud of Jarod, and maybe it's not so obvious, but your marketing team feels like it's like five, ten times bigger than it actually is. And I think this is an important trend because you see this, all these AI native companies that are growing like rocket ships, they don't have all the same people personnel that maybe you would have done even five to 10 years ago when you built a SaaS company. So you've got a secret, so, so what do you want to share? How are you doing it here at Vivun?
Jarod Greene [00:02:14]:
Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's the biggest compliment I get when I'm out there in the streets is like, hey, I thought you had a marketing team of 15, 20, 20 people. We have five. We have five people. We are hopped up on, on AI. We're hopped up on obviously some of the best, you know, technologies that's out there. But we got great people, we got great minds, and we want to make sure that they have everything they need to be successful and to be at their best. And I think most, most companies would agree with this.
Jarod Greene [00:02:38]:
I think in my heyday at one of the companies, the marketing team met with 75 people. It was 75 people in the marketing team. And then when I talked to the CMO at the company yesterday, he was, you know, starting over. I can do something within minutes that I was, was not able to do in months. Spun up a brand new website, like doing things quickly, at scale, with the same bar quality or not that far off, I think has been the biggest kind of cheat code we've all seen. So that, that's been transformative for us. I'm really proud that we have a great team, but they have the tools they need to be successful.
Matt Darrow [00:03:09]:
Well, I think it's tough too, because you can't just say, Well, I have 75 people. I want to have five people. And then, you know, good luck, five people. Because you're, you're using AI in some pretty unique ways to do it. So what's some of the magic behind that? How are you, how are you getting that approach where you're feeling 5, 10 x bigger?
Jarod Greene [00:03:23]:
It starts with the expertise. So again, you don't just throw something like your messaging framework in AI and say, like, write this for me. You can refine it, you can tweak it. You talk a lot about the, you know, the cold prompt or the cold start problem that I think plagues a lot of marketers. We're creatives at the end of the day, but like, we fall victim to writer's block, we fall victim to information overload. We fall victim to just over contextualization of things. And so when we talk about some of the cheat codes, there are just hundreds that I think we deploy throughout the week that just may sound really simple on the surface, but that freed up bandwidth of something that used to Take an hour or two hours or three hours, and now it takes a couple seconds. Just allows you to move through it.
Jarod Greene [00:04:03]:
You know, Matt, you and I have worked together long enough. You kind of see the way my team works or the way I work in particular. I'll walk through multiple iterations of an asset or program with you at 10%, 25%, 50%. I can't move that fast or my team can't move that fast without some of the helps this gives us. And so again, I'd encourage any marketer who's not actively deploying the technologies, the capabilities that AI provides to make it part of your staple, or else I don't think we'll be peers or colleagues for much longer. Yeah.
Matt Darrow [00:04:34]:
Well, again, you mentioned, like, the team has sort of great horizontal capacity and what they can do and what you described is a lot of the premise of AI that we'll even talk about later, which is that it's just there to do the work for you guys, right? You're taking, you're shedding hours and hours and hours and hours of time off, and that's, that's where the benefit comes from, that you can scale in different ways. You mentioned your peers though too. You go to these roundtables, you're up in Seattle, you know, you have a big network of CMOs. What surprises you about their approach or where they are on their adoption of AI?
Jarod Greene [00:05:00]:
Yeah, I think for various reasons, it's just they have not started. And the one I hear the most is just the red tape, the bureaucracy, the red tape of it all, security implications. They're not able to just kind of get their hands on it. And even in instances where they are, they're kind of conscious of, well, do I upload sensitive information in here or do I, you know, do this kind of work here? And I, I totally get that, right? If you're at a, you know, high tech cyber security company, no, you can't do that. I get that. And I was at a conference recently where someone says, like, look, my, my company doesn't allow it once they've figured it out. And I'm sitting here thinking, like, I've used this in the meeting today about five times while we're in this conference showcase, I'm in there on the conversation or with the team working on some things. Again, like if you're 20, 25 and this is still something you are hesitant about, you either in the wrong business, you're at the wrong company.
Jarod Greene [00:05:49]:
This thing is not a trend, it is not a fad. This is about a core capability you're going to need to operate effectively. And I just, again, I would strongly encourage to make it a part of the skill set. Doesn't require an mba, doesn't require, you know, rigorous amounts of testing or validation. It allows you just to get in, get started, see where you can be dangerous and I guarantee you'll start to get some lift immediately.
Matt Darrow [00:06:12]:
I'm glad to see this start to change as well because even six months ago I would talk to people that thought like, hey, this feels like cheating in my work environment. Like, oh my gosh, I think those stones are finally turning the right way, which is really, really good. And you're right. Like some people's organizations just might be a little bit hamstrung around. Do they have the right security clearance and delegation to get their hands on it? And that's changing too, because you're right. What's fun about sort of how you have such a big impact with a small team. Yes, you can do the work, but it's also a lot easier to be nimble with a smaller organization. I would imagine, right? That 75 person team that, you know, used to be a part of the decision making, the change management, like that must have been just the weight of the world in its own regard, right? That I can only imagine.
Jarod Greene [00:06:55]:
Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you think a lot about again, those 75 people, very smart, very talented, very capable. But when you just add complexity to that mix, it slows the machine down. And so things as simple as like, and you and I have been on these threads where it's like we're working on something, but what's in the way is like the de duplication of the data in a spreadsheet. And unless you're a spreadsheet expert, that's gonna take you a couple hours. Not, not anymore. Or the wireframe of a PowerPoint or the Pros, or the tone you might put into a blog, an ebook, a white paper, all those things get easier because you've democratized some of the expertise and it's not cheating. Like, I talk a lot about cheat codes.
Jarod Greene [00:07:36]:
I'm a video gamer. I don't know if you knew that, but I play a lot of video games and sometimes I use the cheat code. Still gotta play the game, still gotta fight the final boss, right? Still gotta do the work. I'm just using something to give me a leg up and the satisfaction's still there at the end of the day.
Matt Darrow [00:07:48]:
Let's click down into, I think a pretty tangible example for the audience around sales development, this is such a hot topic out there. One, you know, obviously Agentforce make a lot of noise on AI SDRs 11x in the news recently. If you're following that on AI SDR. I think everybody knows about an AI SDR right now because of all the things going on. We made a big change at Vivun, not just like who the SDRs report to, but the size and scope and what they were up to. And like, you really reimagined that role because of how AI could help them. So could, could you like walk through that? How do you view the SDR role? How does the reporting line work and, and what do you think about their job now and the tools that you've given them so they can be more effective than they have ever been?
Jarod Greene [00:08:26]:
Yeah, totally. When we onboarded SDRs about 18 months ago, we onboarded to a kind of a one to one ratio. For every AE had an SDR, we've changed that ratio. We have fewer SDRs than we have today. And it's not because we were, you know, mean and we got rid of them. They graduated, they moved on. They were able to do different things throughout the company, which was phenomenal. But I don't think they would have been able to do that that quickly without tools that they had access to.
Jarod Greene [00:08:52]:
Something as simple as, like account research could take weeks for some of these guys and gals. And now with the push of a button, they're able to get the profile of a company. They're able to craft and format a message. They're able to take the messaging frameworks and the playbooks and the value propositions that like product marketing and marketing and product teams have put together quickly, contextualize it and use a lot of like, not just best practice templates that they cut and paste, but that can be like dynamically created on the fly. So think about their ability to outbound, personalize, outbound at scale, transformative. Think about their ability to take in information. You remember before we were teaching assistants, sales schools, like, hey, read a company's 10K or 10Q and like find these nuggets of what you want that is instant now. And so you shift a lot of the work and the skills to learn how to do it into the skills and work on how to apply it.
Jarod Greene [00:09:41]:
And that's been transformative because it's allowed them to move quick, allowed them to have success, allowed them to partner with their AEs more effectively. And you know this, the faster they can build that credibility with the AE. The faster the AE brings them along, the faster they learn, the faster they get into more spaces. It's been transformative. We've taught the AI how to automate a lot of that work for them, and again, we've been able to throw fewer tools at the problem. We can make our guys and gals more effective and make sure that they spend more time doing the actual pipe development work than they are on the minutia and the grunt work behind it.
Matt Darrow [00:10:14]:
When you said about restructuring, rethinking the SDR team, you're like, hey, we had people that like, graduated from the role that became technical account managers or renewal specialists or these different things. But then when you think about, well, would I rebuild it the same way or backfill it the same way? Like, the answer is no. There's this undertone of tension with anything to do with Genai around. Great, is my boss just looking at me to figure out how to fire me? You're saying the opposite here, which is like, well, hold on a second. There's a lot of work that I can do to augment the team that I have, because what I want is that team to get new skills, do different things, change their roles, which is happening, and then you can actually build these teams up in very, very different ways you've never done before. So let's click down a third layer because I know for episodes that I'm on, it's always good to people getting, like, the tactical details. We always love showing, you know, vendors love that we work with what's your stack? What's the top of the funnel stack? How do you make the magic happen? So if somebody wanted to, hey, after watching this, I want to do what draws do and how they put it together.
Jarod Greene [00:11:09]:
We are a few, we're a lot of tools, but the ones that kind of resonate, I think make sense for us is Common Room. So we use Common Room to understand our segments, understand our audience, and then be able to capture some of the things that that audience is doing in real time. So things like job changes happen and we want the automation of the notification that that's happening. But if that becomes commoditized, I want a different set of signals. I want to know when someone's got promoted, I want to know when someone's on our website, I want to know when someone's in our community, I want to know when someone else makes a connection. So Common Room takes a lot of the noise that's out there in the market because we have a very active and busy audience. Gives us the signals we need to go kind of action those. And that's been super effective.
Jarod Greene [00:11:47]:
We're Chili Piper shop now, so we've taken inbound kind of management off the SDR plate. So it used to be a process where something came inbound. A human being would have to reply with an email and schedule with you and find times to work with a. No more. You want to talk to an AE, go to our website right now, click two buttons, you might be on a call later today. So that's been super effective. We rebuilt our web infrastructure. We are now a webflow shop, which kind of allows us to move a lot faster without design and development resources to be able to tell our story more effectively.
Jarod Greene [00:12:18]:
And so we can iterate on the website a heck of a lot quicker. And you know, that's all underpinned by other tools we have like, you know, zoom info for contacts and leads. We have obviously Salesforce, but when I think of like kind of SDR tech stack, those three give them signals and then we use Gong for kind of the sequencing to be able to kind of hit those contexts at scale with just a few clicks. So that's a kind of daisy chain that's been super effective to keep their days streamlined. And obviously we use HubSpot to kind of blast the broader audience. I go on for days about the tech stack, but each of those within themselves has their AI capabilities. It's our ability to string them together to make those teams effective.
Matt Darrow [00:12:55]:
Yeah, well, thanks for again. I always like getting into the tangible magic there too, because we love the relationships, the people that we're working with because it allows us to do what you described. Like let's get our humans up and elevated to where we want them to be and let's go and get the work done in a very different way. Let me drop down a layer. You gave nice sort of three click dropdown on the whole top of the funnel. But then we have this whole series of the business that everybody has, whether or not it's the bow tie or the mid funnel, whatever you want to call it. It's hey, I'm interested now, Jarod, but you don't have my money yet. This is the magic of sales, right? This is where AEs and SEs and CSMs are sort of this all in this mix, working together.
Matt Darrow [00:13:30]:
This is also where enablement often plays a big role. This is a big background for yourself, right? You spent a lot of years at High Spy. You're kind of an expert in the enablement space. You've covered this space before in a big areas. What's changing mid-funnel from the perspective of making that group of folks AEs, SEs, CSMs ready to work and ready to work in this AI future where you can get them massive scale just like you did at the top of the funnel. With marketing DemandGen and SDRs.
Jarod Greene [00:13:54]:
For traditional enablement, it's always been about how do you get the right information, the right time to the right people. And I talk a lot about context being a lot more important than content. And so much of enablement was like here's a bunch of content, here's a bunch of training, here's a bunch of coaching rep, figure it all out, make it all make sense. And when we do that really effectively, you guys will be able to close deals at an unprecedented rate. It doesn't work anymore. You just throw too much at them. There's information overload, there's literal cognitive kind of dissonance that it starts to associate where if I throw too much at you, you will just stop listening and you will tune out and you will do what is comfortable in the world. And that is not probably congruent with the product strategy we're trying to push.
Jarod Greene [00:14:31]:
And so again like reps deal with a lot. That's what I've learned in my kind of decade in product marketing, my three years at High Spot. There's a lot on their plate that we don't see. I think it's easy to look at a calendar and say, well they have a meeting, they have this training thing going on, they have a forecast call, they got this one on one, they got a lot of free time. That is not free time. It is open, it is available. If the meeting needs to go there, they'll keep that open. But what are they doing in that like 8 to 10 to 12 hours a day? They're not screwing around, right? They're doing a lot of this like weird knit norky work like building a stakeholder map deck because you know, there's no marketing template for it, there's no easy button on it.
Jarod Greene [00:15:10]:
So they have to do all of that. They have to do an account summary because for the forecast call they want to get someone up to speed. So they're going to need to kind of roll that off. They're going to have to work with the SC to do a solution design. Okay, there's 35 products in our portfolio. I don't want to sell this particular product. I want to put together the products, design a solution that makes the most sense to solve the use case that my customer wants and that takes a lot of work. So there's, there's a lot on the plate of a rep that I don't think product marketing enablement or other teams actually see.
Jarod Greene [00:15:41]:
But it is so critical to get a deal done because you and I know if I have a bad mid funnel experience, I'm not buying your thing. And it's most likely I ghost you and I never talk to you again and not tell you why. It's not because your product was bad, it's not because your rep was mean. But I didn't see the value. It wasn't as clear to me. And you also may not have been as quick on the draw as your competitor. So this is where speed starts to kill.
Matt Darrow [00:16:06]:
That contrast frame is perfect around. Humans can only absorb so much and take so much attention and we all experience that in our own lives and I think that is a big problem. But that's a huge value proposition for AI because guess what? AI doesn't forget, it retains everything. It knows how to use it if has the right brain on it. That's the twist and the difference. You're right. Like instead of reps sitting there with AI coaching avatars or quick access to docs that they don't know how to use anyway, right?
Matt Darrow [00:16:32]:
That, that's sort of like the wrong direction. The direction you want to go is what does it take to get deals done right. I need to build this great relationship and experience with my customer. But there's 10, 20, sometimes 40 hours of work or more per deal to do all the things that you mentioned, having a stakeholder map to have a political campaign run, the right way to build the right relationships, handing off all the product feedback so you can get your deals done. And we don't run into issues with future deals being able to come up with what we're going to sell and why that's why you enable reps is so they can do that work. And the shortcut is AI just do the work for the rep. Take all of that off the table. And I'm sure that there's nobody out there that would argue with if every one of my rep had 20 extra hours for every deal that they're working well, that team is going to now feel five times bigger, just like you talked about your marketing team at the top.
Jarod Greene [00:17:20]:
Absolutely. And we talk a lot about the pace in which I think a lot of the reps we're talking about existing, their products are moving fast too. So it's like product Training or kind of the nuance of, like, what this new feature dropped. Those things don't scale as much anymore. So your point on like, AI never forgets and AI always kind of understands the latest and greatest. That's an amazing cheat code because now all I might need to do is just nudge the rep to ask for that information or remind them that as they remember, versus locking them into a room to take a certification or take a class to figure it all out. Because I said they don't have time for that. And even when they do, let's just be honest, they're not fully there.
Jarod Greene [00:17:57]:
They're kind of multitasking on the grunt work we had talked about. So while I'm on this training call, while I'm on this enablement call, I'm actually doing some of that work. And so again, if we can take that away, you actually unlock a different level of human potential that I think a lot of organizations would be thrilled to have.
Matt Darrow [00:18:13]:
If you're a rep and you, you were a rep that used to work at Zoom and now you're going to Okta, and then you're going to go to, you know, SAP, you still bring with you the DNA that makes you a great seller, right? How do you break into accounts? How do you build relationships? How are you inquisitive, how do you negotiate? Those things are the same whether or not you're selling at any one of those companies. But enablement, and the reason that exists is what are my products, my customers, why are they valuable? And how do I put all this together to have successful campaigns? So let's zoom out a little bit here too, to just talk about just the whole process of buying and how folks are engaging, because I know personally I can't hit report, spam, delete fast enough on my Gmail inbox. And unless you're in my contact book, if you give me a call, I'm not going to answer the phone. How do you get a message out to an audience that they've never been more bombarded with? Top of the funnel marketing, and the guard is really, really up. But you still need to be able to break through because not everybody has the awareness that they need for what's out there.
Jarod Greene [00:19:13]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, the attention economy is real. You touched on it earlier. The fact that any AI can spin up any message and just outbound at scale probably means you're getting more bad messages at scale than you ever got before. So. So it's not making a problem worse, not better. I think for Us, it's been twofold. It's making sure that when we do engage, we are informing, we're teaching, we're educating.
Jarod Greene [00:19:36]:
It's not always about a meeting. And I know that's like a hot take, but sometimes I just want to give you a little bit of a nugget. Sometimes I just want to help you. I want to give you a little bit of game. And then over time, I think you want to associate kind of our brand with the. The informative insights brand. Hey, they know things, and when I'm ready to learn more about them, I will reach out. So don't call me, I'll call you.
Jarod Greene [00:19:55]:
But I want to be around enough to remind them we exist so that when they're ready to call, they don't have to think, well, what's the name of the company that does the want to be everywhere they are? So you certainly seen that approach. I think our podcast, our social approaches, those things have all worked to plant the seeds that we exist. We have insights, we have information that you want to be involved with. And so then when you see us and you already engaged, boom. We've done a lot of the legwork already. The other side is just breaking kind of that fourth wall. I've been a big proponent of, like, events, not because, you know, they're quick and they're easy, but because you really do break through when you are face to face and when you're able to kind of sense and react. Those are the things to your point AI can't do.
Jarod Greene [00:20:35]:
So AI is not going to have a cup of coffee with you or meet you at a conference or, you know, kind of conduct an executive briefing. So we want to be able to do more of those things, which, to your point earlier, requires freeing up the time of the grunt work, right? So, again, like, that leverage is important. The other thing I think has been interesting is how do you start to map some of those connections? So we talk a lot about peer referrals, we talk a lot about who knows who. And again, if I can start to put those connections together, where I've built trust, I've established credibility, and I've proven that I can help companies like you. I really like our odds at the end of the day. So a big part of our marketing mix has been planting the seeds, being informative, giving people the tools they need to be successful, knowing good and dang well eventually they're going to knock on the door and then conversion down the funnels that much faster.
Matt Darrow [00:21:25]:
Yep, I'm with you on there's some old school tactics that become sort of new school polished here around just being everywhere because you're right. Like people are just, you know, they know enough, they can come to you. You can go and ask, you know, Claude or ChatGPT, here's three vendors, what makes them different. And you're going to get all those answers. So you're going to stand out with not only having a great product, but really knowing and how to bring people into this new world too. Let me end on a final question. I'm going to throw a creepy one at you a little. I'm going to go uncanny valley on you.
Matt Darrow [00:21:52]:
A little bit, a little bit strange around avatars. So you've kind of looked at everything, especially, you know, owning top of the funnel. And there's some stuff out there with AI that still seems a little creepy. But what's your take on, hey, why do I even need a sales team in the future, let me just come to the website and talk to Gerard's digital doppelganger and then hand over the checkbook from there.
Jarod Greene [00:22:13]:
Just like you in a buyer situation, someone's going to be accountable. Someone's got to be accountable. And it's not going to be the avatar going to be you. So you better make sure when you are being held accountable or when you need to trust somebody, that there is a person behind the scenes, that there is somebody there who understands what you're going through, who has the nuance, who has the context. And I just think that's important. Like, I've seen some of the kind of avatars. I think they're cool, right? I think it makes sense to say, hey, for the initial interface or for the initial conversation, let's get it started. But what do we want to build at the end of the day? Trust. We want to build relationships.
Jarod Greene [00:22:46]:
We want. We want to build these, like, deep connections at last. Because again, like, when I buy something, I'm not just buying your product, I'm buying into your vision. And most of the times I'm buying into the team that sold it to me. Because when something goes awry and Matt starts yelling at me, I got a swivel trick. So I want to make sure. I want to make sure I'm doing business with people that I can trust and have my back through it. And I just don't think we're at a place where it's like, yeah, turn it all over to the AI because I'm the decision maker, I'm the accountable party. I want to work with People who understand that.
Matt Darrow [00:23:14]:
I think I remember too, from prior convo, Jarod, like, you're kind of a Westworld fan as well and is an issue with an avatar that doesn't have a brain as well. Like, that's something the things that you've experienced too.
Jarod Greene [00:23:23]:
I have, yeah. You're talking to it, and it's like, it's this new Fangle kind of chatbot. It does not understand the nuance of what I'm trying to do. And I think you and I talk about this a lot. I don't want to be a prompt engineer when I grow up. I don't want to have to know how to frame the question so that I get the answer I want, because I'm dealing with what, how many different agentic AIs out there. And so, like, don't make me a prompt engineer. Make it easy for me to get the things I need, and then we can get to them faster.
Jarod Greene [00:23:50]:
And I can give you more money, you can give me more value, and we keep this thing rolling for decades. And so I think that's one of the ways I've been able to kind of get around some of the initial kind of shock of AI, which is like, no. Like, you might be asking it the wrong question. You might not be putting the right prompt in, but the really good kind of solutions out there don't require you to be an engineer, don't require you to be an expert. So I think that needs to be something that's a little higher on the requirements list as these tools get evaluated.
Matt Darrow [00:24:17]:
One thing, takeaway. All right, we're at the bottom of the hour. What's the audience walk away with?
Jarod Greene [00:24:21]:
If you ain't familiar, get familiar. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. It's out here. It's here for you. It's here for you to take advantage of. And so, again, I know the mantra a lot of times is do more with less or do more with the same. Rethink how the team works. If AI, agentic AI, the solutions you have aren't allowing your team to do more with the incredible resources and talent that they have, you're doing it wrong.
Jarod Greene [00:24:50]:
You gotta figure this thing out. I'm still learning, but I think we've gotten to a place where we've gotten scale. We've hit our targets, we've hit our goals with it, and the future's bright. Like, I only look forward to doing more as the targets. And the pressure rises. Team's up for it. We're a great team and we got great leaders and we got the tools to be successful.
Matt Darrow [00:25:08]:
Well, hey, thanks Jarod and and thanks for the audience out there. If you want to learn more, follow us on LinkedIn, follow Vivun, follow Jarod, follow myself. You can subscribe to Vivun's podcast, the Unexpected Lover as well, where we have these continued conversations with all types of B2B leaders going through this transformation of B2B selling. And check out Unexpected, April 25th, on demand, one hour virtual event for revenue leaders understanding how AI is bringing more power to sales. Thanks for joining us, and we'll catch you guys next time.
Jarod Greene [00:25:39]:
For additional resources, check out Vivun.com and be sure to check out V5, our five minute soapbox series on YouTube. If there's a V5 you'd like us to talk about longer, let us know by messaging me Jarod Greene on LinkedIn.