The Root Cause - Business of Medicine Podcast

In this episode of The Root Cause Business of Medicine, Drs. Erik and Davin Lundquist interview Dr. Linda Mattioli, who shares her inspiring journey from conventional family medicine to founding a thriving cash-based membership practice and the Origins Incubator, a mentorship program for clinicians. Linda discusses how burnout led her to embrace functional medicine, build patient-centered systems based on trust and empathy, and grow through community outreach and feedback. She now helps other practitioners design practices that align with their values—restoring balance, purpose, and authentic healing to both doctors and patients.

Creators and Guests

Host
Dr. Davin Lundquist
Dr. Davin Lundquist is a board-certified family physician, innovator, and healthcare leader with over 25 years of experience integrating medicine, technology, and holistic wellness. A graduate of the Keck School of Medicine of USC, he has held senior leadership roles at CommonSpirit Health, Dignity Health, and Augmedix, where he advanced the use of technology to enhance patient care. Driven by a passion to move beyond symptom management, Dr. Lundquist founded the Quantum Advantage Method™, a science-based, holistic framework designed to help individuals restore vitality and reverse dysfunction. His approach blends functional medicine, advanced diagnostics, and principles of quantum science to empower patients to achieve optimal health and lasting transformation.
Host
Dr. Erik Lundquist
Dr. Erik Lundquist, MD, ABFM, ABoIM, IFMCP Dr. Erik Lundquist is the founder and medical director of the Temecula Center for Integrative Medicine, where he blends conventional, holistic, and functional approaches to help patients achieve lasting wellness. Board-certified in Family and Integrative Medicine, he specializes in endocrine disorders, chronic fatigue, migraine management, cardiometabolic health, and chronic pain. A graduate of St. Louis University School of Medicine, Dr. Lundquist completed his Family Medicine residency at Naval Hospital Camp Pendleton, where he served as chief resident. He spent eight years on active duty with the U.S. Navy, including service as a battalion surgeon in Iraq and at the Naval Hospital in Naples, Italy. Certified by the Institute for Functional Medicine, Dr. Lundquist is passionate about empowering patients to take charge of their health and teaching fellow clinicians integrative approaches to chronic disease. Outside of medicine, he enjoys the outdoors, singing, dancing, acting, and spending time with his wife and three children.
Guest
Dr. Linda Mattioli
Dr. Linda Matteoli is a board-certified family physician with advanced training in functional medicine and a deep passion for root-cause healing. She earned her Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine from the Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine, completed her Family Medicine residency at Eastern Virginia Medical School, and holds a Master’s in Nutrition from Simmons College. Motivated by her own health journey, Dr. Matteoli integrates conventional and functional medicine to help patients achieve lasting wellness. She is trained through the Institute for Functional Medicine and focuses on empowering patients to restore balance through personalized, holistic care.

What is The Root Cause - Business of Medicine Podcast?

The U.S. healthcare system is at a breaking point—soaring costs, worsening outcomes, and widespread physician burnout. The Root Cause – Business of Medicine podcast, hosted by brothers Dr. Erik Lundquist and Dr. Davin Lundquist, charts a different path: one where healing, fulfillment, and business thrive together.

Each episode shares powerful stories of medical professionals who stepped away from the traditional grind to embrace integrative, functional, and alternative approaches to care. Through candid conversations with practitioners who have redefined success, listeners gain insight into navigating their own transitions, reclaiming a sense of purpose, and reshaping the way they practice medicine.

Davin
Erik, I am really excited about our next guest. Um, the only issue is I wish I had met her about a year ago when I was just starting my new practice.

Erik
Linda Mattioli is great. And those who listen to this podcast, uh, you're really going to enjoy listening to her story.

Davin
Yeah, there were some really interesting things uh that I learned from her today. around, you know, just really hustling early on in in a new practice, in a new business.

Erik
And it she goes into great detail of how she did that. So I think people will be excited to hear and learn about that. So we're excited to have you join us. Welcome to the Root Cause Business of Medicine podcast, where we explore what's broken in healthcare. And what we can do about it. I'm Dr. Erik Lundquist, and I've been practicing functional medicine for the past 15 to 20 years. I'm excited to co-host this podcast with my brother Dr. Davin Lundquist,

Davin
who's just beginning his journey into functional medicine. We come from different points on the path, but we do share a common goal. We want to rethink how medicine is practiced and help others do the same.

Erik
The U.S. healthcare system is in crisis, rising costs, declining outcomes, and physician burnout at an All-time high. But you know, we found a different way. Another way.

Davin
A better way. On this podcast, we dive into real stories from medical professionals who've stepped away from the traditional model. Kinda like me. and have found a new purpose in integrative, functional, and alternative approaches to care.

Erik
These are authentic conversations with practitioners and friends who redefine success not just for themselves but for their patients and communities.

Davin
Whether you're a clinician feeling stuck, a student seeking direction, or just curious about what is possible

Erik
You're in the right place. This is the Root Cause Business of Medicine Podcast. Today we have a wonderful guest, uh Linda Mattioli, who I met at IFM. And uh she's she's got an amazing program going on that we want to learn a little bit more about Uh, but uh we're excited to have her uh share her story. And Davin, this is the first time you're meeting her, right? It is, yes.

Linda
Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Erik
Well, that's awesome. We're excited to have you here. And so Lynn Linda, why don't you just give us a little background on your journey in medicine and and then kind of, you know, did you go in integrative functional medicine? How did you get it kind of turned on to that? Give us a little background to set the stage as to kind of where you are currently.

Linda
Absolutely. Yeah, so um my medical journey was a little atypical. So in my twenties, I was working in um a research lab at Mass General Hospital and a genetics lab And we were particularly researching how nutrition affects genetics. That got me super interested in the power of nutrition. Um, and I ended up getting my master's in nutrition and opening up my own practice being a nutritionist. And I quickly realized that I just wanted to do more, wanted to help more. So I only applied to osteopathic medical schools because through my research at the time I thought that it was a more holistic approach. So I had always, I had entered medicine with that idea of um holistic, you know, healing. And when so I graduated from osteopathic medical school, I I was boarded in family medicine. And during my initial years working as a conventional family medicine doctor, I and I even in residency, I remember saying to my attendings, like, if I just had more time with a patient I feel like I could really help them, but uh I was it was always a race against the clock and I always felt that um I didn't have these words at the time, but it was almost like I was just out of alignment or integrity with just how I like to approach healing and interacting with patients. And so subsequently, as oftentimes happens when we're out of alignment and not doing what we're meant to do, we start to feel ill. So um, and at that point I had a one-year-old. Um, just I personally was just extremely fatigued, irritable, just felt like a shell of who I am. uh went to my family medicine doctor and I just kind of just crying during the appointment, just kind of unloading on her in 10 minutes. And um Her response was basically like, okay, well let's let's check your iron, let's check your thyroid, you know, C B C C M P. And then that was that was kind of it. And I remember sitting on the exam table as she left and thinking to myself, oh wow. Like it that's probably the workup I would have done at that time. And just thinking to myself, that's this is how that feels. Um and I had a moment where I was like, oh, I don't I don't know if I want to keep you know, keep practicing this way, but I just had no idea what else to do or h or how to fix this. And so, you know, I got a call a week later saying your labs are normal, you're, you know, probably just adjusting to Your work as a career and as a new mom, um, have you thought of Lexapro? Like that was kind of like the conversation.

Erik
Of course, right?

Linda
Yeah.

Erik
Pill for your ill.

Linda
Right. And so I was like, oh no. You know, because at this point, now I'm in my early 30s. Like I went to medical school late, later on, you know, then right out of undergrad. And so I was like, oh no, I don't know if this is what I was supposed to do. Um, and so I actually saw a local naturopath uh doctor in the area. And she spent 90 minutes with me doing a comprehensive intake. I felt heard. Um, she didn't have solutions right away, but that didn't matter. It was just the fact that somebody took the time to listen to me. And so at the end of the appointment, um, I was crying again because it was amazing. And then I said, Well how do I how do I do what you do? How do I become this kind of doctor without going through medical school all over again? And she was like, well, you should check out Institute for Functional Medicine, you should check out IFM. And and so that kind of started my journey. Um, and I went to the first the AFMCP in the first few modules and I just decided that um I had to practice medicine that way and I remember sitting down with my husband pouring him a glass of wine and just being like, I n I need to become the kind of physician that I would want to see, or else what am I doing? Like what is all this for? And He was like, okay, well, and then that started the journey of hanging my own shingle and going from there.

Erik
That's really, really interesting. You know, um I had I I had a similar kind of Oh my gosh, moment when I was in my third year of medical school and I had just completed that and uh actually second year of medical school before I got into the clinicals and I I was like I I I don't know if I can do this. And interestingly enough is I sh I shared this in when we did the podcast of my story, but I I f I actually listened to an integrative medicine physician who is a family physician presenting at a American family physicians conference. uh for medic for medical students in residents. And it it actually saved my career in medicine, so to speak, because I realized, okay, there is a place. for me. Uh I don't know how I'm going to get there exactly right now, but at least I know somebody is doing what I want to do. And so therefore I can kind of get there. I I I'm curious how why did you, you know, why did you decide to see the naturopath? Like so wha how did you find her? What what was your thinking? I mean, clearly you were feeling like Uh okay. Medicine is not serving me in the way that I want it to. You were looking for an alternative, but why why did you seek that particular path?

Linda
Yeah, it was um I felt that the the labs at the at the disposal of the family medicine doc I saw and just her her training and assessment and assessing who I was. I needed something deeper that didn't really catch I'm ill. Like I knew I wasn't ill. I knew that there was just some imbalances going on in the background. And so I felt like I needed somebody trained in the nuance of um just the human body and other factors like stress and environment and all of these other things. And um I was talking to my sister and she had seen the natural path a few times and she was like, I think this is more of the approach that you need. And I just, you know, I just felt like I wanted somebody to spend time with me. Like that was kind of my the fact that she had the sixty to ninety minute appointments was a game changer for me because I wanted somebody to kind of understand the whole story because it wasn't as quick as like you have this symptom, do this test, and then you get this result and then you get this thing. You know what I mean? So at the time that was just what I I mean, this was back in this was twenty twelve. And so that was just what I had at my knowledge and disposal at the time.

Davin
You know, it it makes me think so, you know, I have a background in informatics as well. Um when I worked for a large health system and you know, we were always looking for tools to decrease burnout and try to improve the patient experience. And yet, you know, hearing you, it it kind of to me, it it makes me realize that maybe like the simplest answer to all of those with all the high-tech and whatever administrative creativity, operational workflows. patient-centered home, whatever you want to call it, right? Like at the end of the day, just taking the time to actually help someone feel like they've really been heard, right? And I think as humans, instinctively we know that 10 minutes is is not enough time to be really heard and understood.

Linda
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's kind of just feeling that you're not alone in it is is huge.

Erik
Yeah, can I can you imagine if we just went over to visit our parents and just said, Okay, I've got ten minutes to, you know, talk to you and see how you're doing and and then and then we leave, right? It's like they just that type of interaction is just so brief. And I think to your point of it was I just felt like I I you know, the naturopath didn't have all the answers at that first visit, right? But the fact that she listened to where I was at and what and and she was willing to walk the journey with me. And neither of us knew exactly where that journey was going to take us at the moment, but we were gonna start, right? We were gonna start walking that journey together. And and I think that's that's really important. And and so I think having more algorithms, more, you know, to your point, Davin, I think, you know, having having a system that's super efficient and uh approaching the problem uh of okay this is how I feel you know and these are the things okay and all those check the boxes It didn't leave your the your practitioner had nothing to offer you but, well, try AlexaPro, right? It was just and and so I think getting to the root cause of our problem in medicine right now is that mere fact that we're not really connecting, right? From a human being to human being. And although we'll be able to use AI, which will be great in helping us Streamline data collection and analyzation, the ability to still connect one human to another is what's still going to drive the medicine interaction, right? That that health care interaction.

Linda
And I and you know, I carried that experience with me. I mean in In the the program that I have now where we help other doctors, that there's a first appointment that we teach called the Foundational Assessment. And I think that as physicians, we're trained to just like figure it out and solve problems. Like we want you feeling better and like as quickly as possible. Like we take all this information, like this is the most evidence-based plan and we want to do it all kind of at once and I I feel like a broken record so many times, but I I always say at at that first appointment, the goal isn't to solve everything, because you you won't. And if you pretend like you are, it'll be inauthentic Um, your goal is to establish hope, establish trust, and establish rapport. That is the goal. If even if you don't know, and I think as physicians, we don't like not knowing what's what what's causing the issue with the person. And so that makes us feel insecure. And and then we kind of sometimes over deliver, which creates overwhelm for the patient. So I'm just like, just be human, be curious, ask them questions, and and even if you don't really know what's causing their symptoms. Frankly, maybe say that and just say, but what I can promise you is that we will, like you said, Erik, like we will start the journey. I will walk beside you. We will take this step by step. And just that, like that's it. That's step one. And it's um and I think that, you know, just kind of taking that pressure away from physicians is is I think really healing um because we we were trained to kind of Try to remember and know things immediately. And if you didn't, you were berated. And so it's like it's okay to not know right away. It's okay to kind of take a breath and um walk the journey with somebody. Like that's it. Yeah.

Davin
I love that I I love that idea of, you know, like reframing the goals of, you know, that first that first visit, you know. And I I I think this idea of a partnership, you know, a journey together. It's it's a beautiful, you know, concept, I think, in in medicine and where again in the traditional model, you know, I was a primary care doctor for tw twenty plus years in a traditional model. It's it's like, you know, speed dating, right? You know, you're they they come in and it's like, okay, how f how how much time? Okay, let me quickly Do something, you know? Let me make sure you're not dying, right?

Linda
Right away. Let me make sure you're not gonna leave here and like die before I see you. You know, so it's like you rule out the most extreme scenarios. And then yeah.

Davin
And then you go through like your checklist of like, okay, what are all the regulatory, what does what does the health system want me to do? Okay, am I gonna get a good patient satisfaction score? Okay, am I gonna you know, did I satisfy all the MIPS measures? Wait, oh, oh wait, there's a person in front of me that actually Right, exactly

Erik
Yeah, and we have in our in our clinic kind of our motto is that the health journey starts the patient the moment the patient walks through the door, right? So even from the the first contact they have with the front office. um make you know, in making their appointment to to getting checked in to their vi I mean, that whole process can play a role in their their health journey. So by the time they get to the practitioner, They're already primed and ready to, you know, be well into that health journey. But m Linda, why don't you tell us then how, you know, kind of a little bit about what you're doing now and then how you transition then from that naturopathic visit to doing some IFM uh to to where you are now.

Linda
Yeah. So Um, so we were actually in Virginia when I did all when I was working as a traditional primary care doctor, and we were relocating to Florida at the time to be closer to family. So We'd moved to Florida and my husband um had gotten a job at a corporate law firm. That was why we were in the Orlando area. And I was like, I cannot work in conventional medicine anymore. Like at that moment I just felt so strongly that I just I really wanted to have these longer appointments. And I I actually initially wanted to work as an extension in like a primary um doctor's office. You know, so like I would do more of like a functional integrative workup, but then they would have this team as their medical home. Um, and I interviewed um and kind of presented myself to multiple clinics in the Orlando area and they either just like didn't quite understand what I was offering, and I probably didn't really understand what I was offering either at the time. Um And then I just finally realized like, okay, I think I just need to hang my own shingle and and figure this out. And so I I started working. I kind of rented a one room space. it it was out of an acupuncturist office actually and um it's very small I had a massage table as an exam table and and a table and a desk in the corner and I started out doing fee for service. And I realized in that model that I just wasn't getting the follow-up that I wanted. You know, they would follow up not as, you know, in in this kind of medicine, you know, you need just continuity, you need frequent uh touches. So then I ended up doing a program model where it was like it was just all inclusive, like six months all inclusive with lab supplements, what have you. And I only did that for about a year because I realized that while financially it was helpful because you have the money, you know, invested up front. For me, I I pivoted so much during a patient's journey, whether they needed this test or this supplement or whatever, I just needed to pivot more than the program allowed. Um and then I also realized that I had a few patients in the program model where we were getting to like month four and five. they were pretty stressed out because they weren't our time together was ending and they weren't haven't done everything that that we had talked about. And I remember looking at a patient across from me at the time and and she was and I was thinking like I'm not I'm not here to make your life more stressful. Like I'm here to help you. Like whatever your timeline is is your timeline. I'm not here to dictate your timeline. So I eventually settled on a membership model where um the only thing in in the membership that was included was services. So labs and supplements were completely outside of the payment structure. So that we could pivot however we needed to, um, depending on what they're what they were able to invest at the time. Um, and it just gave us flexibility of time, which I thought was really helpful Um, I also realized in that, and at that point I had moved to a larger office space that to your point, Erik, when you're talking about the patient's journey starts when they walk in through the front door. I had heard over the years over and over again how stressed out my patients would feel in the traditional medical office. And so I was starting to think of just how to create how how can I reduce their cortisol just as they enter the office. And so My waiting room like looked like a family room. I had like a water filter that they could kinda get fresh water. I had a hot tea available like the whoever greeted them offered them tea and like nuts or a little snack. I had um music playing. I did have some aromatherapy, but then with the sense, I I had to kind of take that off. But um, you know, it just kind of transformed into a a real welcoming environment that um I was excited. So again, it was almost I just kept thinking to myself, What kind of office do I want to walk into? How do I want to be greeted? How do I want to be treated throughout this entire process? And I just That was just kind of my guiding light through it all. That's awesome.

Erik
And and so when you said fee for service, you were talking about they were actually paying. Cash for time spent. Yes. You weren't doing a fee for service from an insurance PPO standpoint.

Linda
No, no, yeah, sorry. That was yeah, confusing. Yes. It was I it was I think $199 per visit at the time. And yeah, it was just cash per visit. But there's so much additional support. Um I had education classes, I had a health coach. Um, and then I ended up bringing on a therapist as well that was very helpful. So I just kind of kept building whatever people needed. I just so again that idea of just being curious, like what continuously asking for feedback um just kind of drove the the practice. Like what would make this easier? What would make you feel more supported? what do you need? And then I just tried to figure out how to incorporate that within their experience um with our office. So

Erik
So when you when you first got started then you it wasn't like you were you had this big clinical insurance-based practice and then you transitioned into a cash-based and patients followed. You actually put your single up in a new location, said, all right, this is what I'm going to charge. And how did you how did you decide, one, how much to charge? Two um you you said you started bringing in other therapies, uh other practitioners to kind of help you, assist you. Uh did, you know, w how much time did they get for the 199 and and did they pay extra for the other practitioners or was that part of the package that you were offering? And maybe just give us some some further details because I think, you know, for everybody this is, you know, uh particularly Um, most people who transition from conventional medicine into the integrative or functional medicine world, it's like, how do I do that? Right. So I think it's always interesting to find out. What you know what you learned from that and and what you did, and then you know where how you you it's interesting that you progressed into a membership model from the fee for service.

Linda
Yeah. So um I will say first and foremost, um the relationships I developed early on drove the building of the practice um from the beginning. So um I didn't know I had one friend in Orlando when we landed, so I really didn't know anybody. I started out actually approaching primary care doctors, um, not who none of whom worked for a larger hospital space. They had their own private practice. And I basically said to them, I said, um, this was my spiel almost exactly. I said, you know that um that person who's in their mid-40s with migraines, fatigue, chronic pain um who you have worked up as as much as you can and you've referred out and you still feel like you see them on your wait list and you're like, oh my Gosh, like I don't know what else to do for this person. I s I said that is my that's my ideal client. I would love to work as an extension of you. Um I'm not a primary care doctor, so we will not be you know, competing. I'm won't be taking these patients from you. They will still go to you for their annuals and for sick visits and for all of those kinds of things. But I I have the tools to work up why are they having these migraines? Why are they having this brain fog? Why are they having this fatigue? And they will continue to see you as well. And that's how that group, um, it was a group of of four physicians, they it that really spoke to them, um, especially for their patients that were a bit more natural-minded. Um, and they I just gave them my cell phone and they just started referring patients. Um how I decided on the price, I wish I had a better answer. Besides, I just decided on a price that I thought sounded good. I think that that's how a lot of people start out, unfortunately. Um now we've kind of developed more of a formula for it, but Um 199 just kind of sounded to me at the time like, you know, a a rate that was possibly doable for people. Um and then Yeah, I I forget the so the the evolution from there was that um I I then found a holistic pediatrician So this these are the initial people that I found were willing and able to refer, a holistic dentist, a holistic pediatrician, and then PCPs. Um, so the holistic pediatrician, he oftentimes said that the the parents of his patients would say, like, who does the adult version of what you're doing? So he started referring to me. I started doing a lot of community talks in the environment, like my approach to thyroid, my approach to gut health that would drive business. Um, so I honestly when I because I didn't have money for digital marketing, um, it wasn't something that I I was able to do, like writing blogs, posting on social media, just wasn't really what I was good at, nor did I have the the time or money to invest in having somebody help me do it. So really networking and introducing myself to people and um telling them what I did and asking for referrals was the way that I built to my first hundred members.

Davin
That's great. I I think um You know, again, i for people that are, you know, just starting out, I don't know how many people will be in that situation, you know, where they'll just hang a shingle anymore. I think I But uh that's a great, you know, story of sort of being creative, understanding kind of what you had what tools you had to work with. uh I can relate a little bit to that. Um, you know, not uh wanting to like spend a lot of money marketing. I, you know, I I remember when I left talking with like a company, you know, these like um where they like help you transition, right? And they'll do all this research and they'll do the marketing and they'll create a whole business plan. And then they keep like

Linda
60% of your revenue or something.

Davin
I don't know, you know? And um and so I think it's it's it's interesting to have a little bit of a playbook for somebody who wants to sort of start small, doesn't have a lot of capital. So I I like that.

Linda
Yeah, yeah. And then for me when I decided that the membership was the way to go, it the membership was me and the classes that I taught. I didn't have the health coach or the therapist at that point. And I think Erik you had were asking about that. And so I I realized that in if I was transitioning to a membership and my initial pricing was $149 a month for the membership. Um, and it was five visits throughout the year with me and a monthly class and unlimited access to portal and 10% off supplements. I think that was the initial membership package. And I just realized like I was at a place that like we had bills to play, we had student loans to pay, we had two young kids at the time. Like this wasn't a passion project where I was like, if it takes me five years, it takes me five years. Like this was like we need like I need

Davin
Money and I need it now.

Linda
I need money and I need it now. And so that's actually where this concept of the foundational assessment came in for me. I was almost envisioning like a executive physical type of idea. where we do extensive blood work prior to them coming in. And I was always I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted proper handoff back to their primary care team because I I I you know, coming from conventional medicine, that was a big deal, right? It's the handoff. Um and so I I did not do any advanced test. at that initial visit, it was all blood work that if they fought if they didn't move forward with me and they went forward back to their PCP, the PCP wouldn't be like, what the heck is Dr. Magnoli ordering? Like what is this stuff? Um, and and I priced it at $4. 95 for 90 minutes so that I could kind of build up that income while my membership clients were building up. Um, and it gave people an opportunity to just get to know me. Like they it was like a low risk, it was a 90-minute appointment, they kind of understood me and my approach. And so I realized that selling like at a discovery call or at a community talk, talking about the membership, that's a difficult jump. Um, you know, that's that's a marriage, it's like you gotta date somebody first kind of idea. And so I just found that just kind of helping the person focusing on just the next step was really, really quite helpful and the foundational assessment, I gave them real, you know, interventions for them to start to do. And then they had two months to decide if they wanted to join the membership or not. And I always shot for about a 50% conversion there. Um, but it gave people, you know, that appointment is so flexible because I would have patients where they would say, Oh, my son's visiting from college. I'd love for him to do a FA with you. Something like that. It's just kind of like, or we would at Christmas time we would say give the gift of health and it would be like a gift card for a foundational assessment for a loved one. Um, it's a real flexible, um, good appointment. I love doing them because for me, like I said, my goal wasn't to solve all their problems. Once I realized that wasn't my goal, that took me a few years to figure that piece out. Um, the goal was really to just establish rapport and hope and just, you know, help the patient understand the the drivers of what's causing their symptoms or disease, then it just became a real fun appointment for me. And then in the membership, the health coach, so they were independent contractors. So I started out first with the health coach. um and the health coach had kind of trailed each one of my visits. So I would see them, then the health coach would see them a week or two later. And the idea was that in my membership appointments, I stayed in the theory realm. Basically saying, like, this is what I'm finding, this is what it means, this is what I want you to do. Um, and then I but I would always say to the patient, you know, you're gonna see the health coach in a week and they're gonna help with the implementation. So at the bottom of my note, I always just kind of wrote the health coach's name and then a few things that we were focused on so she knew, okay, I'm going to talk about sleep with this person or Like while I started the progesterone, she would talk about sleep hygiene and the execution of it, that kind of thing. So it felt really cohesive. Um and then with the therapist, so okay, so back to the health coach. The health coach would then I would reimburse her seventy five dollars per visit. So then she would invoice me at the end of the month for how many visits she saw and then I would pay her. Um but to answer your question, it was always included. The Like this was my membership offer. It was all of this. That the patient did not have the opportunity to say, I don't want the health coach. I don't want the therapist. I said, in my experience, I I started saying in my experience, like after I had some experience, I'm like, this is this is what you need. Otherwise they're portal messaging me pictures of nutrition facts and all these things. Can I eat this? What about this? And I'm like, that's That's why we have the health coach for these kinds of questions. And so the so for the therapist, I I brought on the therapist after I was doing it for about five years, and I found that At about the six month mark, um, what I would tell patients is I found that you know it took it normally took about three to six months to kind of physically clean somebody up And then it was almost like the the body physically started to feel better. And so then they started mentally cleaning out the closet. And all of a sudden our appointments started turning to more um toxic thoughts, real toxic relationships with self, relationship with others, past traumas, all of these things. And I just knew I wasn't trained or equipped to kind of deal with these conversations. And so I there was a EMDR therapist or trauma-trained therapist. that so what was included in the membership was a 90-minute appointment with her. So it turned out to maybe just be like twenty five an additional twenty five dollars a month from a membership fee standpoint But I kind of kept that appointment in my back pocket and when it was appropriate or necessary and because almost every patient went through that evolution if they're working with an integrative doctor for a year, like they typically come to some mental health space at some point. Um and then I would say like now would be a great time for you to do an assessment with um our therapist. And that assessment was like her foundational assessment, was how we kind of it was like her mental health assessment. And so she would do a 90 minute Um comprehensive intake. And then if she thought that therapy was warranted or indicated for this patient, then that patient in her would then go on their own journey. Like the patient would pay her directly. So she was an independent contractor for that. So it was a nice kind of lead generation for her business. Um, and then I had the opportunity to to offer that to patients that needed it during the year. So that's how that worked. And then she was compensated $150 for that 90 minutes.

Erik
And so the so let me break this down. Let me summarize. I think this is fascinating. I think um I I have lots more questions. Um but let me let me let me kind of break it down to what you shared, make sure I understood kind of correctly, right? So you You you transition, you, you hang your shingle, you you you start by taking, you know, fee for service, you you networked with the the local community of primary care physicians saying, look, let me take off. your really difficult, challenging patients. I will help support them, those that are willing to pay cash for my services, just send them my way. And I'll help to unburden you a little bit with these patients. They're still going to be your patients. I'm just going to dive deeper on some of their health issues. Um and and so that started to generate, but you realize from a financial standpoint it it wasn't enough to keep you going um and to to to meet your needs from a uh financial standpoint and generate enough revenue so then you transition to a membership which you initially started 149 per patient. And at that point th you had they could see you five times a year with some group visits. Um and they could access you through the portal as often as they needed to and engage in conversation from that standpoint. And then later on, you added in a health coach, which then you basically told the patients, now this is part of your program with me. In order to see me, you're going to see them. I I guess m my first question would be, if you're paying them $75 per visit and they're seeing so did they only have five visits with the health coach then through the year? And um that's, you know, I guess some of that's coming out of the overall membership program. But I mean that's if you're looking at it just from a one-month standpoint, that's half of what you're bringing in for that patient for that visit.

Linda
So can you clarify a little bit how that was from the financial structure? Okay, good. Great question. So I raised the price. So one of the first things I always say to doctors starting out is like anytime you're bringing on an independent contractor, which is a real, I think, great way to start adding on additional help is you're you're you're raising your prices with each one. So 149 was how I first started when it was just me. So five individual visits with me a year. and then um a monthly class with me that we rotated topics. So that's how it started. And then the 495 for the foundational assessment. When I brought on the health coach, it was $595 for the foundational assessment because Um, what I realized with the FA is that it's hard to switch from a clinical brain. Like I've I've created this whole trust with you, right? Like we've had these 90 minutes together, and then all of a sudden I'm I'm asking you to invest in a membership with me, like that transition is, I think, really hard for not only physicians but patients as well. So I by including the health coach in that process, the health coach would then follow up with the patient a ye a week later. And then um invite them into the membership. So I didn't really make that sale at that time. It was on the health coach a lot of times did. And then in the membership, I then increased the price to $199 when I added on the health coach. And then when I added on the therapist, it was $2. 49 a month and $6. 95 for the foundational assessment. And then when I hit a wait list, I ultimately was at $2. 99 a month. So the final model was $2. 99 a month, five visits with me, five visits with a health coach, $190 with a therapist. 695 for the foundational assessment, which is actually three visits in one, 90 minutes with me, follow up with the health coach, follow up with a therapist. And what I find with working with the physicians I work with is for the foundational assessment, if they don't include some sort of like follow-up with support with a health coach therapist or or somebody, it's it's a lot harder to do that. that close. It kind of takes the the burden off the the physician. So that's that's how that evolution happened.

Erik
Yeah, I think that's really helpful. Uh Davin, did you have a question?

Davin
Sorry, I don't mean to keep you up. Well, so um so essentially that kind of became your new model. Like you really sort of settled into this foundational assessment. And then, you know, cause that was just, you know, a lot of people lower risk to, you know, take a chance, get to know you, maybe get some great direction. Yeah. And then you were shooting for half of those to sign up, you know, for membership. Did you hit that target? Or did you need it? Or do you do you have metrics on that?

Linda
Yeah, so it took me um twelve months to to hit a hundred members. 100 members was my goal. Um and I so and I and I worked school hours. So that was big that was a big deal for me. Um, I was grossing, so I averaged about 10 FAs a month um and then a hundred members, and then I also had maintenance memberships after the first year so that I can kind of talk about how I did that But um I I grossed around twenty-seven K a month and I my hard costs were around seven So I was a that was kind of what I was able to pay myself. Working school hours, I had about um 11 patient 10 to 11 patient contact hours a week was where I felt most comfortable, um, without the wheels totally coming off. Um, but yeah, it took me a year. But I was doing, I mean, I I always say this because I think that, I mean, the amount of outreach I did, like I can't underestimate that. Like it was I did two community talks a month, like bam, bam, bam. And I was always looking at metrics. I think that that's another big mistake people do is that they don't really look at their metrics every month. If you're not measured it, measuring it, you're not doing anything about it, you know? So if my if my revenue was starting to drop, I booked like two or three community talks like that next month.

Davin
Where where did you like where did you find these venues or like where where were you going to give talks? I'm curious.

Linda
So it was Places that I went myself, like I shopped at myself. I again I always looked for small businesses. Like I wasn't approaching Whole Foods or anything like that. Like I was approaching the small apothecary that was family owned. I was approaching. So I did um my primary ones were were three places that I rotated through. So a a lot of times I I tell physicians, like you might introduce yourself to twenty different business owners and then you might settle in with two or three that you regularly go to. Um, but one was a a little apothecary and they had just kind of homemade, just like non-toxic you know, makeup, lotions, um, laundry detergent, stuff like that. And I just I would shop there. And so then one day I was like, you know, I'm a I'm a physician. This is what I do. Do you think that your clientele would want to learn about Um and for the talk I did there, it was more around um environmental uh toxins and and how the body detoxes. And so She was like, yeah, that sounds great. So I so we would mark it to her email list. So she had an email list of like probably 5,000. And we would, you know, say that we were doing this talk after hours. And then I would market it as well to my own email list. I had a smaller email list at the time. I didn't start growing that till years later that I always kick myself for. But anyway, I wish I did that since day one. And so it benefited her. And me, and so and if anybody signed up for the talk, they were now on my email list. Um, that I could continue to nurture with my monthly newsletter. Um the talk was after hours. So as I'm I would talk for an hour just about my approach to to liver health and how toxins in the environment impact our mitochondria. What does that look like? What is symptom-wise? What does that look like Um, and then it would always lead into the foundational assessment, like if this makes sense to you, this is um if you want to work with me, if this aligns with you, this is how you get in touch with me. And then like the store would be closed and then people would get up and they would shop around like she always made a lot of sales that night. Um But I want to be clear in that there are many nights where I gave a talk to two people, like two people showed up or one person showed up, and you can't stop. You know, there are other times we had like 15 people would be a big talk Um, and I think that that's what people do is that they'll do one talk and then one person will show up and say, Oh, this isn't for me, or this isn't what my community wants. And it's like, no, you just gotta. Yeah.

Davin
Yeah. Yeah.

Linda
Volume negate block.

Davin
I agree. Yeah. I've I've given some talks in the community and yeah, it's it's really it's very impactful. I mean, you you know, I think every time I've gotten new patients from those from those talks and You know, and again, we're in a business where people need to trust you, right? Or they they they want to find someone that they feel comfortable with, they can trust. And so If you're putting yourself out there, they get a chance to get a feel for who you are, not just what your website says or or what you know what it says on the door. So I I think that's great. And um So when did you graduate from giving talks?

Linda
Like was that once you hit your goal or whatever? Yeah. So my I I I just wanted to say my my primary places was a yoga studio. um the apothecary and then like a natural food um like a farm stand kind of place those are my primary places Um, and then I always then they would refer to me even between talks. I always gave them my postcard, my so it was a constant again, nurturing Not only just meaning somebody about nurturing their relationship is like something that needs to be on the calendar, like touching in, touching all the touch points. Um, so then I once I hit a hundred members, I I stopped doing talks every month. N Um, so I was doing them every two weeks for the first six months to really like get that traction. And then I was doing them monthly. Um and then when I hit 100 members, I was full and I transitioned more to like to nurturing my email list with a monthly newsletter. Um and so I I transitioned that way, but I always I I would do a talk. I try to do a talk like once a quarter at that point, um, just to kind of keep those relationships and avenues open. But it was it was kind of you know, it's like one of these. It's just you know Yeah. I yeah, in the beginning I was the the community talks and the the professional referrals, um, like talking to OTs, PTs, massage therapists, dentists Like that's more from a referral standpoint, but then the community partners are the places that I would give the talks at. Those are the people who had their small businesses. It was like a different kind of approach, different relationship. Um but one of I mean I got a lot of my referrals initially from a PT who again he had his own practice and he was, you know, he spends forty-five minutes with these people and they're talking about Um their muscle skeletal health and he referred to me a ton. So that was something.

Davin
There's some d so many topics here to dive deeper on, right? And uh I know we probably want to keep going, but um maybe just one last thing that I think could be helpful for people that are maybe gonna use your playbook is um Did you repeat certain talks or were you always like giving trying to get fresh information? You know, I think that's just a tactical thing that might be helpful for people to know.

Linda
Yeah. Um, well I think it depends on what you do in your practice. So for me, since I'm primary care I I view myself as like, you know, that's the lens, you know, integrative medicine is like the lens through which you view your craft, right? So I'm very foundational. So I didn't know My gut and my thyroid talk, those were the two that I did um that I would repeat. I also had a a brain health talk. I had an autoimmunity talk, but honestly, those didn't hit quite as quite as well as the gut and the thyroid. Yeah. Um Yeah.

Davin
And so that's kind of repeating bread and butter topics that really resonate with people that kind of maybe open their eyes to what is different about functional and integrative medicine. Okay. I like that.

Linda
Yeah, yeah. And I I mean I could talk I mean I could have a whole segment just on community talks because I think that there's a whole art to it, you know? Yeah. Um to doing them well and to having them be impactful. But

Erik
No, that's a that's a really good point. Um I a couple other kind of follow-up questions to that, and then yeah, I agree. We need to kind of move on because I definitely want you to talk about what you're doing now. And we haven't even got there yet. You know, this is kind of the now you've just moved from Florida to Colorado. You know, now you're you're kind of if from a practice standpoint would be reinventing yourself again, but you're doing other things that are kind of supporting that. Um and I think uh the that referral piece I think is is really important. And I I I I would say, you know, for physicians who are in a practice And they're thinking to transition to more of a cash-based model. You know, they're they they have a following already. Um one of the ways that I got around kind of not advertising at work was doing these talks, right? So I would say, oh come, I'm giving a talk. And and then I would, and then I'd have a few plants, right? I would say, hey, ask me about what I'm doing at this new practice I'm opening up. So then patients would You know, pe friends who I already knew were coming to the talk would then ask me, so what what are you thinking of opening up your own practice or whatever? Oh yeah. And then I could tell them about what I was doing without advertising it at my current practice, which I was still working at because I needed the income, right? So I was transitioning, but it allowed me to start to get this email list, start to get this patient volume. So when I actually opened up my clinic, uh, we already had a wait list of 150 people um that wanted to get in, right? Now we stayed in insurance, um, so that I think that that helped too, but Yeah, partnering with those local communities was really helpful. Um and and we even uh this was pre-COVID, but we were actually broadcasting them online because we had people who wanted to come who couldn't because of the timing of it. And by recording it, uh, they could then watch it later. But again, same to your point, in order to get access, they had to send me their information. Right. So then I I was able to get so It was a way for so one other things that people can do is record it or they can, you know, do a live stream uh while they're doing so they may only have one or two people in the audience, but they may gather another five, ten, twenty, a hundred. outside of that. Um and you can gather names that way. I want I want to then focus on you you had mentioned I'm I was doing eleven to fifteen hours patient hour time and I wanted to make sure I understood that correctly first. And then the second is then how much non-patient time are you spent? I mean it takes time to prepare these talks, to give the talks to go out and do referrals. So kind of in, you know, I think sometimes we think we focus just on patient interaction. That's my work. But in essence, all of this becomes your work. So how much time were you spending on some of this non-patient stuff to try and get your practice built up.

Linda
Well it's so let me kind of clarify that. When I When I was building do 100 and I was doing all of the foundational assessments in addition to the I mean, I was I was averaging probably more like 15 patient contact hours a week Um, I always had, I always kept Friday off. Um I think it's always important to have a day where you're working on your business, not in your business. Um, so that was really important to me. I think that we can all oh it all bleeds into like, you know, I don't know, patient contact time. Um, and so then I I learned time management, quite frankly, it's not a skill I never learned, but I was like, there's no way I I can sustain this. So I I started my day, I would answer portal messages. And the other thing is I would train my patients that I would respond within 24 hours. And so I checked my portal message when I sat down at my desk I had an hour when I first came in in the morning that I would check my portal, answer emails, like prep for the day, whatever I needed to do. And then I would see two patients, I would break for lunch and then see like two or maybe three in the afternoon. Um, so I I kind of kept at that pace. Like three to four patients a day was comfortable for me. If I got up to five, I would honestly just feel pretty burnt out.

Erik
How much time would that take you to see those? Because uh obviously we're not talking 10, 15 minute appointments here.

Linda
Uh okay. Yeah, so they were hour appointments and then um a foundational assessment was 90 minutes, but I blocked two hours for it. So and then the rest of the time was spent, you know, finishing notes. you know, answering portal messages, things like that. So I try to bookend my day with portal messages, RX refills. Um things like that. And I think that the the the portal is something I'm I'm kind of going back to that because I think that as clinicians, like we tend to like live in the portal throughout the day. It's like in between appointments we're continuously doing it. And then it almost turns into like a text. Communication with patients and so I would answer the patient's message and then I like wouldn't respond again till the next morning. to kind of train that relationship a little bit more. Um and if I and in the portal, if it if we went back and forth two, three times tops, I'm like, you need an appointment. Like I I think that boundaries is something really important, communication boundaries when you own your own practice. Um, because part of what they're they're paying for is access to you, but it it doesn't do anybody any good when you're just burnout because you're just living in that space.

Erik
Awesome. That that was really helpful. In terms of a business plan, did you I mean it sounds like the some of this was just kind of evolving. But did you did you have kind of a business plan when you got to Orlando and said, okay, this is this is kind of what I'm gonna start with? Or did the business plan kind of evolve? You talk about spending Fridays on your business. Give us a little bit of kind of that perspective in terms of how you got to where you were

Linda
Yeah, so um what what works for me is I'm what I'm a bit more of a quick start. Like I'm I'm comfortable in the the in-between muck. Like the you don't have all the answers. It's not all very clear. You just kind of go. So uh yeah, I just found that I'm I I pivot really quickly, so if something's not working so one of the things I I guess I I didn't have a this this whole well thought out business plan. I I wish I probably did. It probably would have been helpful if I had that initially, but I I just I just Looked at my metrics monthly for sure, made decisions based on that, and I um got feedback from patients frequently. And that's how I made my decisions for the I kind of was working in like 30-day sprints initially. Like, okay, what's working, what's not working. All right, my discovery calls went down. Okay, that means I need to go out in the community more. Oh, my conversion from FAs to memberships go are going down. Okay, let me get feedback from my FAs. What's not working there? Or feedback from my membership. So I just made a very, very frequent tweaks um that first year. Uh and then and then I would just kind of continuously reevaluate and pivot, reevaluate and pivot.

Erik
Yeah, I think that's really helpful and I ev everybody's comfort level obviously is different. Um but I but I think it's It's good to know that you can start something and get going without having a formal business plan. Um I agree with you. I think I think anytime you can have some kind of an idea uh written down, it's always gonna go a little bit better. But to your point, I think having those continual, consistent re-evaluations and check-ins with yourself to see how things were going. Because the last thing you want to do is get down the rabbit hole and now you're in financial trouble because you're not making enough and you've gotten loans and other things. Um, because sometimes people will start big. Like we s we started big. We opened a five thousand square foot office space and got a loan and um you know in and started off, but within fortunately within six months We were solvent and actually making a profit. And um because we had a, you know, I think a business plan and we had approach, but we had spent 18 months in preparation before we opened up, which you didn't have, right? You didn't have that luxury of having that prep time to to go forward.

Linda
And I just think it's kind of a different, you know, and and as As as we got bigger, the business, you know, the business model just kind of evolved and we became more refined in it. Um, I mean, I did have I mean I had a rudimentary plan, but I wouldn't say it was like a a anything that was um that was very um incredibly professional and concrete. Um but I know that now that is one of the big things that we talk about with the incubator is we have an entire pricing tool calculator because that's the biggest thing. I don't we tend to kind of just pick numbers out of a hat of what to price things at and things like that. And so there's a whole tool that we use for Like how much time do you want to spend with patients? What is your what are your hard costs? How much money do you need to bring home to have the lifestyle that you want? So there's a lot of background work that needs to occur. Um, it's it's frankly like uh all the lessons learned um from when from when I started out, just that hustle. There was a lot of hustle that I did initially. Um, and I think that there's a lot of things that we can that I learned along the way and that we can do now to avoid that, to make it be this is the goal. And if I reach this goal, this is what I can expect. That's all extremely important now.

Davin
Um I f I I we definitely want to get to this next topic, which is obviously what she's doing now because you're kind of leaning into that. But um um but one of the things that strikes me as, you know, because I'm a you know, um having left, you know, traditional medicine, primary care, you know, I don't have the you know, runway behind me. I haven't done official functional medicine training. You know, I have some great mentors, obviously an older brother who, you know, has a lot of patience with me. Um But it's, you know, this decision to not be a primary like a full primary care doctor, I would guess would be a big decision point for people. And I think understanding who you really are as a practitioner, maybe, I think maybe just speak a little bit to that. Like how did you know that that was like that that was who you were was kind of this niche. that wasn't all inclusive for for primary care.

Linda
Yeah, and I think that um this idea of like knowing know thyself, you know, and and knowing kind of where your your strengths are and what you enjoy. Um so I knew that I was okay. So to me, a primary care doctor you're doing like acute visits, you're doing like maybe some minor procedures, you're doing annual visits, um, you know, that that availability. And and for me the work life balance was was huge. I I didn't want to be on call. Like I didn't you and um and again this is something I kinda fell into. So initially I thought that I was gonna be this like niche integrative primary doc. And then I it was a so I remember this so vividly. It was like a Sunday evening and I was like, oh I need to check my portal before I go in on Monday. And somebody had portal messaged me uh Saturday at 3 p. m. and they were like, my blood pressure is, I think it was like 220 over 120. And I was like What? Like why why is this a portal message? And I didn't, you know, and it was and I was so annoyed. Like I called him immediately, like any other symptoms, like all the all the things that we do Um, but it was twenty four hours later that this guy, you know, just FYI, I just wanted to let you know. And then at that moment I was like, I cannot like the work life balance that I'm trying to achieve here, I cannot be a primary care doc. I don't have the team in place. It's just me. I was a one-woman show. Um, and so then I just started kind of settling into this idea of like, well, what if I just work as an extension of their primary team and I'm not I'm not the one that they call for acute visits. I'm not the one that's going to do their I'm not going to keep track of like the, you know, doing their pap and their memos and all of these things. I mean, I obviously asked that, but it wasn't something That was part of it. Um, and it frankly made sense to people. And I also distinguished that I'm also not concierge. So then they're like, oh, are you concierge? Just like, no, I'm not. I you're not paying me this lump sum to be on call for you either. Like this is I work I am an I am your personal health detective. I work as an extension of your medical team. You're still gonna have your cardiologist, you're still gonna have your primary team. Um, but I'm trying to figure out why are you having these migraines? Why are you having these IBS symptoms? Um and they actually had to sign a contract that they do have a relationship with their primary, a relationship with a primary care doctor before they saw me. And I learned over the years that having the foundational assessment also enabled me to weed people out who just weren't a fit for my kind of practice. If they were acute I mean I had a few people in their FA labs, their LFTs were through the roof, or their creatinine was high, or their platelets were really low. um and it hadn't been, you know, addressed by their primary medical team and I referred them back for stabilization and for conventional work up to rule out the, you know, that kind of stuff. And then they would come back. And it and it really Again, like I just think that it's, you know, if you take the time to really know who you are and who you aren't, and that is adequately or effectively portrayed to the patient. um in a form of like a contract and things like that so that they're initialing like I understand that you are not on call. I understand that that I may be referred back to my primary team for more of a conventional workup. then the relationship is super smooth. Um and so that's that's kind of how that evolution began was because I Got a few scary portal messages. Days later.

Davin
Yeah. No, that's a great story. I I think that that r that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that was a great question, Davin.

Erik
Well let's get let's get in. We we're we we've already been going for almost an hour now. Yeah, I I know this is something you're super passionate about, and um I found super interesting when I learned about it at the IFM conference in June. Um so I let's let's talk about what you're doing now, um, which is helping other practitioners um do what you have done. Um, and let's let's hear more about that.

Linda
Yeah, so um right now we have a physician mentorship program. It's called the Origins Incubator. Um there's three tracks. There's legal finance, um, business and marketing, and then clinical. And we help physicians create, grow, and launch their practice. And whether it's based off of the model that I did or more of a program or insurance based model. It's um really rooted in best business principles. It has certainly evolved over the years. It started actually in 2019. My husband is Scott Radigan. He owns a business called Functional Lawyer. And while and he helps physicians from the legal compliance standpoint when they're opening up a clinic. And what he was experiencing is physicians would ask him, well, how does Linda do it? Um, because he was realizing these doctors weren't really paying themselves and they were like, how does Linda do it? So he kept Coming in my office and he was like, well, what do you do about this? And how do you do this? And how do you handle this? And then finally he was like, you know what, Linda, I think you should really just write down your processes on paper. So um And for anyone anyone interested, we are gonna have Scott on the the podcast.

Erik
So we will have an episode that is just all things legal in business of medicine. So we'll we'll we'll be excited to have Scott join us and he can go through that process of what he learned from you and what he what he is doing now and in helping. So that'll be an exciting episode.

Linda
Yeah, yeah. And so I started um just onboarding a few physicians a year and we would kind of work through things from a business standpoint. Um, and then I just realized, uh, as I think we a lot of us realize with patients, is you can't just focus in one area. Like the you really need a comprehensive support approach. And so That's when we um brought on Cheryl Burdett to teach the clinical curriculum. She does case studies every single week. She has a foundations curriculum as well as a more advanced curriculum Um, and then Scott does his uh legal, it's it's it includes all a functional lawyer. So all of that is included. And then we actually just spent these last six months reworking the practice creation piece. to really build it more from a business standpoint. So um to your point, Erik, like having the business plan, understanding your finances. Um, we have a personalized practice dashboard for every practice so you can see where your revenue is coming from, make sure you're saving for taxes, making sure you're putting money aside for for profits and hard costs and all of that is is kind of well understood um as well as helping with just automation lead flow nurturing from a marketing standpoint so Um, it's a really it's a it's a I love doing it. I never thought in a million years I'd end up here. Like we always end up in like a derivative of where we thought we'd we'd be. Um But it's just so cool to to you know what what I'm most passionate about is is really kind of getting to know each of these doctors and helping them create an extension of themselves. So we're not here to say Do it this way. This worked for Linda, do it this way. Like I know myself, I know what works for me, but it's in it we help them kind of really get in tune to The type of healer they are, the type like how in what environments do they work best? How do they attract patients and work with patients and creating a sustainable business model around that? Um, because I think the way our our medical education is, is we take the most brilliant, kind, empathetic human beings and we put them in a cog and a wheel and make it algorithmic. So um this is like restoring the patient physician relationship in a way that they can have a life and pay themselves, you know? So it's Yeah, so the the Yeah.

Davin
Sounds like something I wish I had signed up for about about a year ago.

Erik
Um yeah, and it's funny because I know I've known Cheryl for a while. Um I, you know, probably six, seven years, eight years even. And so it's great that you brought her on. She's she's a fantastic educator.

Linda
So She really is. And I think that, I mean, even when I first, you know, when I first got to know Cheryl and I would discuss cases with her, she's just so heart-centered and kind in the way that she approaches patient care and just works with other clinicians. I think it's a it's re rehabilitating to us who might be coming from a conventional world where we always felt like we didn't know enough. Um I one of that's one of the reasons why I loved having her on board and I know that the other physicians do as well.

Davin
That's awesome. So she so if I understand this correctly, you kind of have like different tracks almost, like like the you have a clinical track and a like sort of a legal and and a business or

Linda
Yeah. So what we do is um so I I I do strategy sessions, which is just kind of like if somebody's just like, what is this and is it a fit for me? They can it's a free call. So that's kind of just it's on originsincubator. com and people can sign up for that. But what I do is I kind of identify the stage of growth. That's kind of one of the first things we do once a person signs up. So some people are dreamers. Where they're fully in the conventional world and they're like, I have this dream, and then that's it. Like that's all they that's the prerequisite. Like, I want to do this thing. Um, so they're in stage one Um and in stage one, what we do is we educate them on finances, funding, um, just basic business stuff. It's very Scott heavy, like just compliance, malpractice, bank accounts, business bank accounts, understanding how to what to do with your money and how to do things like that. And from a practice standpoint, We're doing I have them do a few foundational assessments to for family and friends to kind of get a feel for their how they approach care. It's kind of like a like the the mantra of that stage is just you learn not earn. You're just kind of kind of feeling things out. Um, and then we get together their basic business structure. So I think a lot of times what people do is that they think they have to have it all figured out before they launch. And as I said before, I'm a big pivoter And so we try to allow people space for that. And so at the end of stage one, we've basically constructed a a really simplified version of a practice. Like what do I think Because you don't really know your hard cost then, things like that. You're kind of thinking like this is about what I think might work. And then in stage two, they're onboarding their first 20 patients. Um, stage three is we do a giant audit. So after their first 20 patients, we look at their hard costs, how much are they paying themselves, how much time is it taking them to do things? Um, and then we that's we stabilize before scaling to capacity, which is stage four. So then before they enter in stage four, if they want to switch their model, if they're like, I want to actually do programs instead of memberships or I want to actually bring in insurance or whatever. Like you're you're changing their prices. It's almost like a relaunch as they make these adjustments. Um And so we identify what stage people are in, and there's a separate curriculum for that stage, and we do monthly accountability calls or coaching calls based on their personalized metrics. Um, and then while that's all going, and I'm primarily in charge of that piece, while that's all going, there's weekly education with Cheryl and weekly office hours with Scott. So within the practice creation curriculum, I kind of link to like now's the time to get your your agreements figured out and your informed consent, and then we link to that lesson in functional lawyer and then Scott's there to answer any questions. So it's not really like separate tracks. It's kind of like all going at the same time.

Davin
Yeah, parallel tracks.

Linda
Um and then you kind of weave throughout. And when you're seeing your first patients, you can you know, do a case study review with other people in the program and get feedback from everybody, which is really cool because there's cardiologists and surgeons and, you know, people from all different specialties and you can get their input. Um And so that's that's that's how it works.

Davin
That sounds great.

Linda
And don't take a percentage.

Davin
I was gonna say it it sounds like it's different it differs for some of these like, you know And I think that maybe more in the concierge world, right? Where you kind of see these like MD, you know, VIP or whatever they're called, and they, you know, they kind of have a a template and a and a model. Um, but this sounds almost more like mentorship.

Linda
Yeah.

Davin
Um sort of strategic mentorship versus like someone running the show for for these for these

Linda
Right. Yeah. It's for somebody that really wants to learn about themselves and really step into like a kind of practice that really is in alignment with with them. And and some people it works better for them to step into somebody else's model and just kind of work it. That that's perfectly fine. You know what I mean? It's just again, it's kind of that idea of like, how do I want to approach this?

Davin
Yeah. And is it only for physicians or is it for naturopaths and chiropractors? Like because I've noticed in functional medicine there's like a lot of Variety.

Linda
Yeah, so it's MDs and DOs and then autonomous NDs and NPs. So as long as you are fully licensed in your state, like your state recognizes that you can practice autonomously, then we we do a strategy session with everybody just to make sure that it's a good fit. V Um, but yeah, they have to be able to to practice autonomous autonomously by the so that it's those four licenses, but the NPs and the NDs, it depends on their state.

Erik
Well, this has been awesome. Um it's been so great to learn from your story and your experience. And I know um people who listen to this will be um inspired and highly motivated. But we want to we want to we want to give you a chance to kind of give the the the audience your idea of what what do you see as the future of medicine? Like in your ideal world, where do you see medicine transitioning and what do you where do you want medicine to go in the future?

Linda
I see medicine, medicine of the future is um, I'm gonna say provider or physician, patient-centric. Like that relationship will be the core. Whatever makes that interaction the most fruitful for both parties, I I would love to see that that is the future. um because we're the core we're the core parties involved. So I think we um so I think I think of it as like healing the healers. Um well you know a lot of a lot of providers it By healing the healers and then healing that relationship, our communities are are healed. So I think that we can't forget, I think a lot of uh as physicians, we've we learned to become martyrs. Um, we like sacrifice personally, financially, our own health for this cause that really isn't all that effective at the end of the day for our patients. And so How do we kind of take back control and we we have to be brave and courageous and do things that make ourselves and other people feel uncomfortable? And I think that If it's if it's makes us a little uncomfortable and a little scared, you're probably in the right place. I love that.

Erik
I absolutely love that. And I I totally agree. If the the more we can focus on that relationship and centering that relationship and optimizing that relationship. than whatever technology, uh, whatever insurance-based program, whatever ends up happening, as long as that's secondary to that primary focus, then not only will we see a dramatic shift in our overall health as a as a community and a nation. uh I think we'll just see greater happiness and joy um in general. Um so that's awesome. I I really got that. Any last questions for David?

Davin
Well um maybe just react to this um because as you were describing that this uncertainty or like a little getting out of your comfort zone. I think for both patients and providers you have to bring a little bit of vulnerability to the situation, right? Because as doctors we want to always know it all and there's that's not possible, right?

Linda
No.

Davin
And then as patients, obviously you've got to be vulnerable enough to trust somebody to really open up about well what really is going on. You know, you gotta be honest.

Linda
Yes.

Davin
And that sometimes takes some vulnerability. So maybe just react to that and as a sort of final thought.

Linda
Yeah, I mean I think that you've you know you've hit the nail on the head. It's like it's trusting, you know, it's it's trusting the process that you know, patients will need to be reprogrammed that in their thought process of of care, that they're not going to get answers immediately, they're not going to get results immediately. Like this is a this is an investment of of long-term care. Um and then also um physicians, we need to kind of reprogram ourselves that like our role isn't to diagnose and treat just immediately. Um, unless obviously it's something that's like super acute, but it's it's kind of settling into that that unknown and kind of figuring it out together and working together and responding to each other um is just at the core of of all relationships. I mean that's what it is, right? You're entering in a relationship with a patient. So it's like That honesty and that vulnerability that doesn't happen and visit one. You know, it's it's kind of happens over the long term.

Davin
And and you weren't afraid to ask your patients, right? What's working, what's not working. Right.

Linda
And I think, and I talk to my physicians about that all the time. I'm like, I love constructive feedback. I love it. Like I I ask for feedback all the time because and I'm so grateful for it because it tells me what I need to do. Like you tell me what you need when you give me like negative feedback, if you will. Um, so I think it's just having the and I but I think part of that is I know I'm gonna act on it. I know that I'm gonna make a change. I know I'm not gonna be defensive about it. So I and I think that that's why the incubator, like it's it's grown and it's really um, you know, I I really am I'm so proud of it because I think that that's Like I tell our clients all the time, I'm like, you built this. You tell me what you needed. And we went out and we did our best to give you what you needed. And um So it's like bad news and good news. It's all a it's all a a light, you know, it's all it's all part of the lighthouse.

Davin
Yeah. Well it You know, I saw this quote this week from Adam Grant, and he said, The highest form of self-confidence is believing in your ability to learn.

Linda
Hmm.

Davin
And I I I that's what I see in you. I I and I think that the people that come to you for mentorship and for guidance. I think that you that lesson that you can teach him is is invaluable. So I love that.

Erik
Well, Linda, this has been an absolute joy Um we so appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast and share your story. And um we're excited uh about the future of Origins Incubator and and the many More practitioners you're going to be able to mentor and and we'll just continue to change medicine one bit by one patient, one practitioner And one practice at a time, right? And that'll that'll make things make this world a better place.

Linda
Agreed. Thank you guys so much for having me and hopefully we'll talk soon

Erik
Sounds great, thank you.

Linda
Thank you so much, guys. Bye.