Welcome to another episode of Make an IiIMPACT! This is a mini-series to our podcast where we want to showcase our valuable team members and hear more about them and their stories about being a UX designer and/or Developer on the IIIMPACT team.
Today our interview is with Brynley Evans, who is a Lead UX Strategist and Front End Developer and the longest member of our team. We're diving into our 20-year journey across various industries, exploring the evolution of technology from web design to AI and enterprise software. We'll discuss our projects' unique challenges and rewards, including a major UI revamp that reshaped user experiences and the importance of a user-centric approach in solving workflow problems.
We'll examine conversational UI's potential to revolutionize interactions and simplify complex tasks and share insights on balancing creativity with development. You'll hear about our inspirations, the value of teamwork, and how knowledge sharing accelerates innovation. Plus, we'll illuminate the impact of AI in UX and project strategy and the psychological journey users experience with UI changes.
Stay tuned as we unpack our dream projects, the significance of effective communication, and the critical role of product managers in driving continuous improvement. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review our podcast. Let's make an IiIMPACT together!
00:00 Evolved from web design to AI revolution. 05:31 Passion for design, creation, and staying trendy. 09:58 Successful project completion with positive user feedback. 14:00 Recalling client meetings, emphasizing a willingness to execute. 17:49 Understanding the problem comes from knowledge. 19:16 Proving value, converting clients, changing relationships positively. 22:36 Effective project management requires constant communication. 25:41 Running workshops to ensure diverse feedback is received. 29:26 UX design focused on efficiency and user understanding. 33:29 Value of teamwork, synergy in design and UX 37:12 Living my AI dream, exploring conversational UI.
You can find us on Instagram here for more images and stories: / iiimpactdesign
You can find me on Twitter here for thoughts, threads and curated news: / theiiimpact
BIos:
Makoto Kern - Founder and UX Principal at IIIMPACT - a UX Product Design and Development Consulting agency. IIIMPACT has been on the Inc 5000 for the past 3 consecutive years and is one of the fastest-growing privately-owned companies. His team has successively launched 100s of digital products over the past +20 years in almost every industry vertical. IIIMPACT helps clients get from the 'Boardroom concept to Code' faster by reducing risk and prioritizing the best UX processes through their clients' teams.
Brynley Evans - Lead UX Strategist and Front End Developer - Leading large-scale enterprise software projects for the past +10 years, he possesses a diverse skill set and is driven by a passion for user-centered design; he works on every phase of a project from concept to final deliverable, adding value at each stage. He's recently been part of IIIMPACT's leading AI Integration team, which helps companies navigate, reduce their risk, and integrate AI into their enterprise applications more effectively.
Keywords: user-centric design, conversational UI, AI technology, Makoto Kern, Brynley Evans, workflow standpoint, enterprise software, web design, UX projects, design and development, knowledge sharing, team strengths, AI integration challenges, project strategy, simplified interface, AI in brainstorming,
Follow along for more episodes of Make an IIIMPACT - The User Inexperience: / @makeaniiimpac.. .
What is Make an IIIMPACT - The User Inexperience Podcast?
IIIMPACT is a Product UX Design and Development Strategy Consulting Agency.
We emphasize strategic planning, intuitive UX design, and better collaboration between business, design to development. By integrating best practices with our clients, we not only speed up market entry but also enhance the overall quality of software products. We help our clients launch better products, faster.
We explore topics about product, strategy, design and development. Hear stories and learnings on how our experienced team has helped launch 100s of software products in almost every industry vertical.
Speaker 1:
The president of the company asked me, how would you fix this and what's wrong with it? And I said, well, you know, what we do is we don't fix things just from a visual standpoint. We fix it from a workflow standpoint. So it's a much deeper fix. It entails not just providing assets, but teaching your organization how to think from a user centric position versus a a development centric.
Speaker 2:
What it's going to be simplified to with a conversational UI is you won't need screens anymore. It will just be a sort of fluid thread of interactions where you could say, well, I can I can interact with a language model that's tied to automation that I can ask them to do a and b and c and then go on to d, e, f? Whatever I need is done in a single interface. It is really gonna revolutionize how how we do everything.
Speaker 1:
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Inexperienced podcast. I'm your host, Makoto Kern. Today, we have another somebody who's been on my team for a very long time from the very beginning. His name is Brinley Evans.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Thanks, Makoto. It's good to be on.
Speaker 1:
You know, we've been we've we've started this journey, what, 20 years ago? 20 plus
Speaker 2:
It's it's it's been a good journey. It's been long. I mean, must be 20 years. It's easier to kind of list the industries we haven't worked in than, I think, the ones that we have because it's been so broad and so many different clients, challenges, and just challenges to overcome, which is really part of the the industry, which is yeah. It's been good.
Speaker 1:
I know. For sure. We started off in wood industry. I mean, it was websites basically where we were It was.
Speaker 2:
Beginning our And kind of interactive Flash. I mean, I think before that, I'd sort of, yeah, be doing online sort of solutions. So web kind of web based HTML Flash, bit of illustration as well. And, I mean, that's before way before UX was even thought of. I mean, they were you know, is that instead of just looking at best practices and and kind of psychology, I guess, and applying that to digital design, which is kind of expanding field.
Speaker 2:
You think where it's coming from between, yeah, now and and then, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:
For sure. And now, I mean, after we've evolved from from looking at websites and and redesigning those to now we're we're we're full speed ahead with, the AI revolution, helping out clients with that to enterprise software, helping redesign. I mean, you're with one of our longest clients right now. I think it's going on almost 10 years.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 1:
In the energy industry where we've helped redesign, I don't know, countless enterprise applications that are pretty complex, and you've been leading that team as well for a while now, and that's been going pretty good.
Speaker 2:
And just the shift, I mean, in this sort of almost 10 years we've been there, just to see this shift in in what's available and just the way technology is going, it it is incredible. It's so much change.
Speaker 1:
Oh, for sure. I mean, just the the growth and and maturity just that we've seen within our own kind of group and within our own just company and trying to take a lot of these learnings from from the different clients that we have and and seeing some of the same kind of risks and and problems it's within clients and where whatever stage they're at in their in their launch of their software. You kinda you can kinda forecast the problems that are gonna be happening with them.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. I mean, I think everything's every project is still a kind of unique set of of kind of variables. I mean, you do get to I found you you get to learn processes, but I think, you know, each team is different. Each client has has different sort of, you know, roles in there and and, you know, you know, different different strategies you need to apply to kind of achieve the the the goal of, you know, kind of outputting a successful solution, kind of seeing that through.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. I think before we jump into some of these details, maybe we get a little bit about just kinda what inspired you to pursue a career in in design and and technology.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. It's it's interesting because I think I've always been probably most interested in in kind of creating things and and dreaming up solutions, in all kind of avenues of of life right from when I was young. Just loving kind of, you know, working on on any kind of illustration or, you know, putting something together even if it's kind of when I was really young, you know, tinkering kind of with with software development tool. And I think that that sort of directed me in a in a lines of, well, look. I can use these 2 tool.
Speaker 2:
You know, I can use my my kind of creativity and, you know, computers as a tool to create digital products. And I think that's to this day, kind of keeps me engaged, and I just love working in the space, especially just the the speed at at which it kind of, you know, evolves and advances. It's, it's never a never a boring moment.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And I think with your background, you also I mean, you got into some photography. Is that right? And Yeah. That helped kinda influence some of the design
Speaker 2:
I think that was of it. That was after sort of a I think, really, it was loving kind of, you know, probably art and doing doing art in school and, you know, then kind of being influenced by in a certain, you know, design thinking and just, you know, wanting to create. I I think it really comes down to wanting to sort of create anything whether that's building something in, you know, out of out of wood or building something on a computer. It's like creating something and, you know, if it's aligned with, you know, certain design movements or trends or and that's really what we're doing. I mean, we're sort of keeping our finger on the pulse of of what's trending from a sort of visual design standpoint, and converting it into, you know, using good, you know, best practices and and, you know, the the right methodologies to kind of convert it into a product that, you know, really exceeds everyone's expectations.
Speaker 2:
So I think yeah. In terms of background, I mean, it's yeah. I I can remember kind of playing around pre being about 5 years old, playing around on a friend's, Hercules computer monochrome green screen. I was like, we're we're gonna hack in and find those documents from your mom. We're gonna do it.
Speaker 2:
And it's just that sort of, like, breaking, you know, just trying to dissect things and and understand how they're built and how you can modify them and, you know, how you can also bring, elements of design into things to to make things, you know, more visually appealing. And, you know, there's so many aspects to it, I think, which, you know, is is really when you look at the software development life cycle, exactly what what we sort of as a UX agency, you know, bring to the table and get involved with that sort of ideation to creation and actually creating that product. So, I mean, there I think a lot of things that have pushed me down this path, which I've thoroughly enjoyed. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I think, you know, I always say you're you're like one of the unicorns on our team where, you know, you can do both design and dev. You know, obviously, there's a left brain, right brain kind of fight whenever you're you're doing work. And Yeah. I mean, what do you enjoy doing most? Is it is it the development side?
Speaker 1:
Is it the design side?
Speaker 2:
I think it's the balance, And I think probably probably the problem solving. I always think, you know, UX is that sort of balance of, you know, can you collect all the facts and can you review the facts and, you know, then create something that, you know, balances everything and solve that problem. Like, solve that unique challenge because I think, you know, I mentioned challenges earlier. It's really that's what most solutions are. There there are specific, you know, set of criteria that, you know, almost form a challenge to solve and come up with an ideal, product.
Speaker 2:
So, yeah, I think, all aspects coming back to this sort of balance point. You know, if you can do if you can be involved in all aspects of a project, you get to enjoy that balance of switching, you know, from gaining an ideation to development and and seeing it right through to kind of the the finished, product, which which is, yeah, really rewarding, I think.
Speaker 1:
For sure. I mean, talk about challenging. Can you give us a little little story about probably one of the more challenging projects or more interesting projects that you've you've had to face and
Speaker 2:
tell us
Speaker 1:
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:
I think, you know, looking at, at all projects have that sort of challenge aspect, but I think one that that stands out is, a a big a big project we're doing to revamp an entire kind of UI. This was across enterprise products with hundreds of screens. I think the total was about 500. We needed to come up with a a sort of layout system that would, almost be content aware and use technology to, you know, allow it to understand what content is on the screen and, you know, each screen has sort of different different functions and features, very kind of data heavy applications. And I think that that was a challenge just in terms of delivering that.
Speaker 2:
A small team, a team of 3, and just managing that and getting through, I think, in
Speaker 1:
Was I on that team as well?
Speaker 2:
Do you wanna be on the team? It's I don't know whether you would have wanted to, but
Speaker 1:
it was it was good.
Speaker 2:
I mean, we we really, yeah, we did amazing output in that year. I think just managing the, you know, the stakeholders and getting through the sort of 500 screens in a year, with incredible amount of of work and QA. I think that was probably challenging just by sheer quantity. And and also, we had proposed this this new sort of design solution and this new user interface and to roll it out and have, you know, just really great feedback. You know, that's where, you know, everyone, the the PMs right down to the users, you know, coming back and and saying, look.
Speaker 2:
You've really you've made an amazing difference in the the product. And, you know, to me, that was interesting because you had that sort of challenge and we, you know, completed it successfully, but the reward of users actually saying, like, you actually listen to us. We've been saying this for ages, and, you know, you are able to sort of come in and take our feedback and turn it into something that, you know, makes our lives easier. I think that was, you know, that was a great kind of cherry on top to a, a very challenging deadline heavy kind of project.
Speaker 1:
I I remember, and I I know which project we're talking about here. Just initially when we went in there with this client and just sitting around the board, They, you know, they have their c suite in the room, and they're looking at me and they're showing me the screens and asking, so how would you fix this? They're probably, like, 15, 20 people. Yeah. The president of the company asked me, how would you fix this and what's wrong with it?
Speaker 1:
And I said, well, first of all, that's not UX. What you're talking about is is UI. Yeah. And, you know, what we do is we don't fix things just from a visual standpoint. We fix it from a workflow standpoint.
Speaker 1:
So it's a much deeper much deeper fix. And it it entails not just providing assets, but teaching your organization how to think from a user centric position versus a development centric. Mhmm. I think, you know, what you're talking about is is a lot of the things that we help champion within or the organization is is just that, is changing your mindset to to think like, oh, we know what we know about the user. We're just gonna build this, and they're just gonna use it.
Speaker 1:
But actually getting feedback, understanding will they will they really need it. And we I'm sure you remember when we were testing with users, some of the SMEs in the room that were giving us assumptions on features who were in the industry for years, for decades. They even made wrong assumptions. And so, you know, we're seeing that with a lot of the, you know, enterprise software as well. You've got users that are are so used to a workflow.
Speaker 1:
You change something in there, immediately, it's gonna be negative change. Even if their workflow is not efficient, the it's efficient for them because they know it, and now you're changing the entire interface around. It's it's always a hard thing to go in and and make changes to something that they've used for for
Speaker 2:
years. That's why we love that. So give
Speaker 1:
me a
Speaker 2:
rough diagram of the, you know, the design for grief. Psychological change. But, yeah, it kind of walks everyone through the the the kind of grief of, of UI change. And it is I mean, that's particularly, some funny to apply because you do see it. You see it in in any sort of rollout you do.
Speaker 2:
Oh, no. Yeah. Constant and all those sort of denial and depression and then, oh, no. This is pretty good. I think I've perfected my foot.
Speaker 2:
Exactly. So you go through you ride that with all your, you know, all the users. It's very funny.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. I I remember and I remember the when when we're when I'm talking to this specific client and talking to the VP, I remember that that particular incident where I'm sitting in the office where we're doing our pitch and and, you know, when I hear they have one of the biggest UX agencies that I know as a potential competitor to us, and I was I would follow some of their blogs and some of their things and then, like, oh, okay. That's who we're competing against. You know, one of the things that made him pick us, our company over theirs was the fact that I said, look. We're we're not gonna only going to tell you what we think or recommend what is best, but also help you execute on this and take ownership of of what we recommend and be with you along the way.
Speaker 1:
And I don't think this other this other company was willing to do that. It's just a lot of agencies don't do that either way because that that takes a lot of risk. The tactical work does take a different management of the teams. You're embedded within the teams. It's it's it's hard.
Speaker 1:
It's difficult to do that. And so it's easy to just tell you, here you go. Wipe your hands clean. See you later. Give us our money.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
But to stay with the client for long term is hard.
Speaker 2:
And I think that's, you know, how do you how do you effectively integrate UX? It's not a one soft process. You can't come in and say, right. We we helped you here. Good luck.
Speaker 2:
Goodbye. It really needs to be an organizational change. They need to realize that UX is a kind of key part of that software development cycle. And, you know, if they don't build that in, then, you know, any effort you've done is lost. And give it some time, and, you know, we worked right out of it.
Speaker 1:
I think one of the things you've also mentioned before that you've experienced is, you know, product managers and product owners have such a key role within an organization. And because they are kind of that they're the bridge between business development and design. And if you've got somebody who's risk adverse and doesn't know how to utilize UX to the full capacity where you reduce risk, you test things out, and then you stay you stay ahead of the competition by being innovative, not by saying, well, let's not change anything. It works as it is. You're you're that's a scary thing to hear from product owners and product managers who aren't trying to push things and constantly improve.
Speaker 2:
Mhmm.
Speaker 1:
They just wanna keep the status quo. Don't rock the boat.
Speaker 2:
That's why you you, you know, get Impact in really is you know, I think that's what makes us unique is the fact that we're we're all sort of hardwired for innovation. It's just it kinda feels like it's it's one of our dramatic, but it's in our blood, but it is. It's kind of you know, we wanna see real change, and that's why, you know, if you're passionate about about UX or, you know, any anything in the sort of software development, you you wanna make a difference. You wanna make things better. You wanna continually improve.
Speaker 2:
I think that's our mindset. So we're in there, and, you know, you you have to push. You literally have to push the needle all the time.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And we're not involved with the political game as much. I mean, we do have to make change from the top up to be effective. I know that organizations that don't have UX towards its seat at the you know, seat at the table or at least the ear with the leadership, then it's just gonna be looked as as an asset at the end of okay. Great.
Speaker 1:
We've got the we've got the idea. Just make the make the design look pretty. You know? Make our brand colors fit within the app Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 1:
And then we're good.
Speaker 2:
And that's the problem of, like, you know, what what you don't know, you don't know. Like, you've never been exposed to a good process. You don't know the capabilities of it or, you know, the advantages of it. And in some ways, I think just like you were saying a a top down approach, we've often, you know, had to take top down and and bottom up because often the the meaningful daily change takes place right at the bottom. And that's, you know, right right from sort of changing your acceptance criteria for developing something.
Speaker 2:
Like, does it does it include, you know, UX or a review of something or, you know, before you're you're starting development, do you have, you know, UX sign off in something? Or, you know, do you have, you know, completing a job, you know, updating the the UX team as well to sort of, you know, keep everyone in sync? So I think there's, you know, there's a lot lot to be said for kind of taking both the approaches.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. I think right now, you probably have a a bit of a challenge. I mean, how do you help the client understand the value of of UX? And, you know, what do you see, I guess, with some of the things that they get wrong when trying to launch a new application or redesign? You know?
Speaker 1:
So what are the things that you've seen as challenges, and what have you done to kind of help it through? Because I know you're constantly championing UX within the the client organization, but, you you know, sometimes it gets fallen on deaf ears. Sometimes people don't wanna hear it.
Speaker 2:
The problem is I think when everyone has established workflows, you're trying to sort of wedge yourself in there and go, look. This is this is valuable. And until you've proven that, and I think, you know, proving it for a net new client is is very difficult first. You know, converting people within an organization, which, you know, I'm I'm sort of doing on a daily basis. But that's really you know, you organize a workshop or you, you have a just a basic working session with, you know, with a product manager and the client.
Speaker 2:
And, you know, I think just from the questions we asked and the sort of approach that we take, people can start seeing immediate value because, you know, they they may have approached a certain subject a 1000000 times with with a client. And, you know, we take a different approach and get a different result. And I think that can be refreshing, often when they're saying, well, you know, we we haven't had that feedback from the client before. We didn't know they could participate like that or, you know, changing in some cases what could be a negative relationship into a positive relationship just by giving someone a voice. You know, particularly sort of users or or clients just be able to say, oh, let's hear you.
Speaker 2:
You know, let's value your feedback. We're giving them sort of a platform to actually, you know, make a a contribution to the the software they use every day.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. I I noticed that when when we go into organizations or just within organizations, when you see you see kind of 2 purse 2 easily separated personalities. You either have got the peer the people that wanna want the change. They're hungry for it. They're open to any ideas.
Speaker 1:
There's no ego. Mhmm. Or you've got the people that immediately put up a wall, a barrier. They get get get very defensive. They they get worried about things.
Speaker 1:
They get worried about their job. So it's I know you've you've seen these type of personalities a lot within different projects and different groups that you've worked with.
Speaker 2:
And I think it is one of the challenges, and I think that's what you know, if if you're looking to really tackle any of these projects, a good skill is kind of communication. That's where I think if if everyone can communicate effectively, it solves 50% of the problems. Because if you if you have someone who, is, as you said, putting up a wall or just really not, providing some forward movement with the the project. Often when you understand what their concerns are, you you actually can get so much value out of, you know, the the knowledge they hold and almost unblock, anything that's that's stopping the project moving forward. And it's just sort of understanding, you know, usually, your stakeholders, they'll they'll have good opinions.
Speaker 2:
And even those if those opinions seem like they're driving something in the wrong direction, just by understanding them correctly, you often find that you wanted to go in the same direction all along. So it's really I think just effective communication is key to running a a kind of good project.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. That's a that's a very important point. I mean, we're constantly having to communicate to multiple people multiple times. And, I mean, that's the whole you know, where you have a good project management. You're in constant communication, making sure you reiterate what bottlenecks are, what the problems are, where you're at.
Speaker 1:
I think it's just it's it's so important, but it's, you know, it's it's interesting with the people that are who make the decisions on on trying to better the product. You know, we've and you've been in part in some of the the the newer workshops that we've done over the past few years of trying to get that that voice in the room of leadership to to say, hey. We've we've got these business goals. This is what we need to do and how we're gonna incorporate that in our prod how how we're gonna incorporate that into our product. Also, you know, with as UX people, a lot of people are very user focused, but you have this tunnel vision of not really thinking about anything else of the development constraints, business goals, marketing, sales, things like that.
Speaker 1:
So I think involving those those different parties within the organization really helps elevate the the product itself in the long run.
Speaker 2:
So yeah. And I think that's where just the skills we've built up over the years are really valuable where we've run and managed so many projects because, absolutely, if your niche is kind of right, I'm just gonna design, You're not thinking about all the the other constraints that come into actually delivering a successful product. So it's really having that holistic view and then, you know, being able to tap into our kind of UX design and development backgrounds and skills. I think that's where you know, that's one of the the differences that that Impact offers, I think. It's just that wealth of of knowledge.
Speaker 2:
You know, we get so many great knowledgeable people. It's not our 1st rodeo, so I speak. It's, you know, we've we've delivered so many that, yeah, you can kind of fall back on at least, you know, all that experience to to know if you're discussing something, with C Suite or, you know, whoever the stakeholders are, you know, to include absolutely all the the factors that are gonna come into play. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I think, you know, bias is a hell of a mental drug. You know, if if somebody doesn't know what good process is or have gone through a good process, they they go back to bad habits. They go back to what is most familiar with them.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
And just like the whole enterprise, you know, software user, you'll you'll go through a workflow whether it's sufficient or it's sufficient to you, whether it's the most efficient way of doing things. That's what they're used to, and that's what they want. And I think that's just the same whether whatever you do in your workflow day to day. If you do bad habits and that's how you've gotten through it in the past, this is kinda what you're gonna do in the future until you know what, oh, this is what good is.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it's funny that I mean, that's the just to add, that's the kind of joy of of running the workshops and things. And I find it in some of the workshops I've done is, you know, you may coming back to, you know, normal communication where you have a a group of clients.
Speaker 2:
You know, you have a number of users in the room together. Usually, it's the the sort of, was it the squeaky wheel gets the grease? But, you know, you have one person that maybe dominates everyone else and, you know, they voice their opinions and they have their unique bias, but you really wanna sort of get everyone's perspective. So just, you know, the the processes that we've developed to really, you know, allow everyone to to voice their opinion, have have a voice, you get such a great sort of well rounded, set of opinions that we can then go kinda go through and and collect feedback that is kind of all encompassing, which is great.
Speaker 1:
I know with, you know, with one of the questions around AI, obviously, this is this is something that we've started already with the initial podcast around AI. And, you know, with with that being such at the at the forefront of every news and and and companies looking at it, we've seen where if you stifle innovation too much to the point of making your company look very valuable to private equity. You you may you may miss out on the boat of certain innovation waves that are happening. I know that right now you're you're you're really involved with AI at the moment, and I don't know if you wanna tell a little bit more about some of the of that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. I think this is really the evolution of of where the Internet's going and, you know, how how can we harness this new technology. And I think that's key for, you know, any business we're dealing with. Again, coming back to the point of we're hardwired to innovate. And if there's new technology, well, what does this mean for your product?
Speaker 2:
How can we make your product better with this technology? And I think just the possibilities we're seeing with with AI to, you know, just even these, you know, just the the large you know, if we we step away from machine learning, just the large language models and how interpretive they are and how they can sum up information, There are just so many use cases, for actually, you know, getting the user what they need as quickly as possible possible and and just increasing efficiencies. Yeah. There there are a number of, you know, just amazing opportunities that we're looking to kind of build into our our client software.
Speaker 1:
Just from, you know, you being in it for, for a while now, it's it's involved in these projects. It's not as easy as people think to integrate something successfully integrate AI successfully.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Definitely. And especially that it's relatively young and, you know, they're still working out certain certain kinks. So, yeah, it does take I think, again, just taking a a product development approach and saying, look, you know, how can we leverage the technology that exists today, identify how it's gonna expand tomorrow, and, you know, have have a solution that, you know, is just gonna be reliable and is gonna grow as the technology grows as well. Because right from today, you know, the game, the value is amazing that it can add.
Speaker 1:
Yes. What do you see happening maybe in the field of UX and project strategy? What is what is your crystal ball see happening in the next 5 to 10 years in our industry?
Speaker 2:
Well, I think in UX, if we if we boil it down to sort of creativity is is a major piece of this this sort of design skill and this, you know, there's the human element of, you know, understanding official language and what works well and and how you can, you can sort of portray that or build that into an interface. Where I think it's it's going to change is just inefficiency. It's still going to be that human element that we need to have a vision and be able to direct the vision, but getting there is gonna be so much quicker. And in terms of building software, the barrier to, you know, needing to understand code is going to drop and drop where, you know, our prototypes could be that we built today could be fully fledged applications. You know, if we can sort of guide it on the way to go, your design would so quickly, change into a production ready application.
Speaker 2:
I think that's where it's gonna go even further, I think, especially where we're focused on a lot of business applications. I really feel that the whole the whole there's gonna be a whole paradigm shift with conversational UI where we're so, bound by convention now where you think, alright. If you're developing a screen, I've gotta develop that screen for a set of functionality. I need the screen to do a, b, and c. But then I need another screen that maybe you'll go to afterwards, and that does, you know, DEF.
Speaker 2:
But what it's going to be simplified to with a conversational UI is you won't need screens anymore. It'll just be a sort of fluid thread of interactions where you could say, well, I can I can interact with a language model that's tied to automation that I can ask them to do a and b and c and then go on to d, e, f? Whatever I need is done in a single interface, and how we sort of visualize that and how we develop that conversational UI is is gonna be fascinating. It's really gonna revolutionize how how we do everything. And I think how we use the Internet and everything is 10 years from now completely different.
Speaker 2:
I think it's just the whole strange sort of UI that we've built up out of necessity over the last 20, 30 years is gonna melt away. It's just much more simpler interface. Those are my predictions.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Those are I I think there's there's no software that's just going to replace our jobs right now. I've seen I've seen the images of how AI looks and turns it our headshot photos, and that looks a little scary. But, yeah, I agree with I what I've seen the advantages of is is that research is helping kinda speed up your research, kinda the information gathering that helps utilize that and and kind of, you know, for us being very skilled, we could sift through the noise versus the good stuff and understand where, you know, what what actually makes sense. I think it's just kinda how we do our jobs originally now where we we we kind of brainstorm things and and and really refine our ideas down and just doing that in a more efficient way, I think that's something that is really helpful right now with AI.
Speaker 1:
But and maybe even coming up with some basic patterns and things like that. I I'm sure all our software tools are gonna help us accelerate on that side as well.
Speaker 2:
Just do more in the time we have, which will be exciting. We can realize our visions a lot quicker.
Speaker 1:
Definitely wanna ask you a question about kinda what has what kinda I guess, as far as your career goes, what was a lesson that took you far too long to learn in your career? Maybe you wanna I think Something that involves around more like design and UX.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. I don't know whether I I have I mean, my first thing that comes to mind is really the value of teamwork. And, you know, that could be related to anything, but, I mean, in our case, it is UX and and design. I think for so long, I underestimated what it would be like to have a a perfect team. And I think when you have you have team members that that are thinking the same as you and you're working working together, sort of understanding sort of the the handoff of their different roles if you looked at design development, This is something that's cliche to say that there's a synergistic element there where you can just work so much quicker.
Speaker 2:
And, you know, that's something that, you know, I've I've only experienced a few times, at least, fairly rare, but that is something that, you know, you should never kind of undervalue is having the right team and what is possible with with the right team.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. No. That's I definitely definitely that's something that, you know, you you hear a lot of stories of people who are UX team of 1 or front end developer team of 1 and and trying to do everything, the jack of all trades, and and and it's it's it's a hard thing to try to manage yourself unless you've got the experience. And I think within our just our group, we try to encourage whether you're working with somebody or not, you still have the ability to bounce ideas off each other, and I think we try to encourage that here because it's so valuable.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. That is. Because some projects will only require one UX designer. But I think, you know, what impact set up is really that sort of support network of being able to say, alright. I I need to bounce some ideas off.
Speaker 2:
I need to you know, I have a technical question that maybe I need to design around. So let's speak to someone who's worked, you know, with that specific tech stack. And that's the value of, I think, having so much experience, you know, within impact. You know, all sort of great people that, you know, that that are doing work. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
You you can't rival that, because again, you're sort of you may be one person working on a project, but you have 100 of years experience at your disposal Mhmm. To sort of, you know, whether you're sharing it in our kind of knowledge share sessions or you're just reaching out over I'm and and getting it. I think that is a it's a differentiating factor as well.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And and our team gets to know what good is and everybody who's working on it because, like you said, I think we all have our strengths in certain areas and you can really see, oh, okay. This is how this person's more detail oriented. This is how this person's better at visual design, and these are the techniques that they do, and this person's better at running workshops. So I think definitely there's there's a lot to be said about that and and really leveraging the people around you or who you've run into is a is something to really leverage, accelerate your learning very quickly.
Speaker 2:
It it is that sort of knowledge sharing and, you know, everyone is is interested in upskilling and, you know, understanding what is coming out when. And I think just by having a a sort of collective almost company wide forum like we do, being able to say, like, have you seen this, you know, this technology? Yes. I, you know, I just did a POC with this or whatever the case is. And, you know, that that just keeps everyone learning quicker and just staying on the on the bleeding edge first, finding out much further down the line about something.
Speaker 1:
I've got one question, I think, before we wrap up. If you could work on any type of project or with any client, what would your dream project be?
Speaker 2:
Is it bad to say I'm I'm living my dream at the moment? I mean, I wanted to work on AI, and I'm working on AI, which is fantastic. So living the dream, I I really want to push not push push is the wrong word, but I I wanna explore the the conversational UI elements and how machine learning automation and and large language models coupled together will drive a, UI like that. And that's really just I wouldn't even say dropping the most, but destroying the barriers to entry of complex software. And that's what we wanna do is, you know, anyone that's that's starting out using software that may have, you know, a number of months ramp up time is to literally say, right, if you know the theory of the industry and you're coming in here, you can just do whatever you need to do.
Speaker 2:
You just need to ask it, you know, and and it'll it'll figure out the best workflow for you. So I think we're we're well on our way there. That's I'm good right here.
Speaker 1:
So you're living the dream is what you're saying. The dream. Well, I think with that, we'll we'll end this episode of the podcast. Wanna thank Rene for joining us.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Thanks
Speaker 1:
for coming. Definitely. I I and if you wanna listen to more about our AI dreams and nightmares, we'll we usually have this every every couple weeks on this subject with our other partner in crime, Joe, who is helping Brinley, integrate some of these, great AI technologies with our clients. Yeah. Any listeners out there, if you have any topics or any suggestions for future episodes, let us know.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining today. Yeah. As usual, you know, subscribe, rate, review the podcast. It really helps us. And thanks for tuning in.
