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The Authentic Sales Manager Show with Harry Spaight is a podcast for sales leaders who want to lead with heart, stay positive under pressure, and build winning cultures rooted in trust, authenticity, and real-world leadership. Through honest conversations, transformation stories, and practical ideas, the show helps sales managers navigate brutal quotas, inspire their teams, and prove that genuine leadership can still drive results.
What is the good word? Today with us is joining us from his business where he is a fractional sales leader, who is going to bring a ton of experience over the last 20 years working as a sales leader for different companies, and he has got a very unique perspective.
So, welcome to the Authentic Sales Manager podcast. What is the good word, sir?
The good word is I'm here. Just came out of one of my personal, my team's weekly meeting where I have my six fractional managers, and just great conversation there. Just- Yeah ... feeling good about what we're doing and what we're, what we struggle through and what we enjoy. Yeah. Yeah, so there's some reality there, and I really wanna dive into that a little bit. But I'd like to start off, so first of all, I gotta ask, what is the name of your company?
Sales Manager Now. 20 years ago, when the company, when someone said this is what I should do, I said, "I'm gonna do it. Do you know what my company name should be?" And she said, "No, but I'll ask my husband." And he sent me three names. Though I'd never met him before, his wife, it was our first meeting, one of the names was Sales Manager Now, and I said, "Yes. When you need a sales manager now, that's us. Okay, let's go."
That's perfect. What a great name. Yeah. So I like to start off each episode with this question. What does an authentic sales manager mean to you, Mr. Sales Manager Now?
When I think of authentic, I just think about being true to yourself. And so really owning your stuff as you challenge other people to manage their stuff. And so to me that's authentic, but I'm sure it can mean many things to, to many people. Yeah. I mean, I really like that. It's just owning your stuff. I love the simplicity of that. So yes, in sales and sales leadership, uh, we've gotta own it, right? We can't finger point, we can't blame the economy, we can't blame the team.
Yeah. It's owning your stuff. So lot of value in that right there. So one of the challenges that I see with sales leaders is they're often promoted from being a top performer in sales. We pretty much discussed this with a number of our guests.
Yeah.
Curious as to what your background was and how you got into sales leadership back in the day.
I was one of those people early on, so when I was, uh, early in my wireless career, I was, crushing it out there individually. And small company I was at, they wanted to h- they hired another person and they said, "Would you manage them?" Basically what they were saying was like- Teach them to be like you.
Yeah. And so, so and I'll pay you a little bit of override. So I was interested in the override. At that point in my life, I wasn't interested in developing someone, I just wanted some extra coin. And I, uh, I didn't even try to diagnose it back then. I was just too busy and I just said, "Look, I can't manage this person," and I just gave the person back, gave the override back. That lasted about a month, maybe two, and then I just got back to just being my sole producer. So they didn't lose me, but I realized for myself that I don't wanna carry that burden. It was just, I just wasn't ready to- Yeah ... care about someone else, and I wasn't skilled enough to know how to translate what I was doing in an effective manner for someone else to tr- to emulate some of it, and I didn't have a training program or teaching program or anything like that, so.
And the company doesn't sound like they provided one either.
Nah, we were just, it was just a small company. It was just- Yeah ... uh, probably six, seven people, you know? And it was, uh, the wireless business was growing, so they were making some money, and we were just learning along the way.
Yeah.
We just happened to be there. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, that's a, that's a fun experience. I'm sure you have a lot of, uh, stories to tell when you're- ... pretty much doing everything back in those days.
It does, and I think I didn't complete the answer to your question as I reflect on it. So that's who I was when I started, so what's my point of view on that is, my point of view is that I'm not an anti, like don't take your salesperson off the floor and make them a manager. I'm not anti that. I'm just saying just make sure it's the right person and the right fit at the right time, tell, let the, let a producer know. We- and as an owner, you just have to evaluate, okay, can this person still produce for me and lead, and do they want to, and, uh, let's go with that, uh, versus just afraid of, "Oh, I'm gonna lose their revenue," 'cause you'd only do, make the shift if you want more than what they can do. And so it's just a smart business decision, but do it wisely, don't do it impulsively. And some, and in my case, and in many cases, it's just an impulsive belief that it will just magically happen. And I, uh, at this stage, I actually teach a program now that helps a player c- I call 'em player coaches, someone who has a quota and someone who has to lead and manage. And I have a program that teaches them what are both hats, and get the owner or their manager and them to agree on what those two roles are, not just one blended role. And then how to just set up the week and set up the month on how to do both, a lot of stuff. Yeah. But anyways, for those that are ready, I'm ready to help 'em. Yeah. And, uh, that's what we're doing. Yeah.
Yeah. It's good stuff. So , I started out as a sales manager first where I managed a team- I started to prosper in this different role where I had a number hit on my own- Yeah ... to help support the team. It was a smaller number, and there was comradery and I was speaking the same language. So that may work in some environments, right? What would you say is, just on that note of the player coach how many people can the player coach support and lead, do you think? Any thoughts on that? Yeah. And it, it's, there's no scientific thoughts on it. I think I just kind of parallel with what we've done at as a fractional sales manager company. Probably, it just felt like, I think I had a team of 10 one time, and that was a challenge.
Um, but I was also able to go t- and see them in person, where we're virtual a lot. So I'm only making my assumptions based on my fractional experience versus the player coach. So I just really think it depends on the person, how strong their influence is how confident they are, um, to allow others to do the work. Because if you set it up right, If you do clear expectations, you hire the right people, there's not 10 times or 20 times more work to do. It's if you hire the wrong people, poor expectations, and bad accountability is where there's too much work to do with two people.
Right.
And so it's really how you set it up. Yeah. Gives you more-
Yeah. I like it ...
leverage. Yeah.
Uh, we're gonna take a quick break, uh, right here and hear a word from our sponsor, and we'll get right back into this conversation. Stay tuned.
Welcome back to the Authentic Sales Manager podcast. We're with Sales Manager Now. We were just talking a little bit about, uh, this player coach concept, and one of the things you and I were speaking about is, as a new manager, sometimes the expectations are just like you described. You're a, a performer and I just now want six more of you.
Mm-hmm. And so the sales leader, the newer sales leader thinks the same way, is that I've gotta multiply me times... I've gotta six X me or whatever the number is, and they put a ton of pressure on themselves out of the gate. What's your thought about really the longer game and, you know, how this might look for a company that's promoting someone that's been in sales for a long time and doing very well, is now in sales leadership?
Yeah.
What should be the expectations from the ownership?
So I think the responsibilities of the ownership is to make sure the person is equipped in the leadership management capabilities. So they already know they're equipped to sell. They already know they know how to sell, but they, if they haven't proven themself anywhere else to lead and manage others in an effective manner, successfully lead or manage others. In other words, people respond, they understand what they're sharing, they learn from their teaching and they feel supported and challenged, then, um, th- that, those things need to be, uh, they need to be oriented in that way, trained. And, and so I, I think the responsibility is that, is make sure y- they're, you're developing that side of them, 'cause that's not why you moved them. You moved them 'cause they were a great salesperson.
It's... Would you say it's different than selling, leading sales teams?
Of course. Absolutely. It's similar, but different. I- if you, if they broke it d- uh, just don't think of it this way, 'cause in selling, we're s- we set expectations. What's the process? What's your process? We ask questions, we understand. Um, we don't have control of the outcome. And when you're leading and managing, I think that is one thing that people need to understand, is that- I don't have control over what this person does. But one thing's different is the company has an expectation and a paycheck that gives that manager a little bit more authority to say, "But you need to do it this way." With a customer, they don't need to buy from us, but a salesperson needs to deliver, and if the good- if you have a good manager, then of course that salesperson will want to listen and use that guidance to help them deliver.
Yeah. I was just thinking back in the day when I first got into sales leadership, I was trying to, think of past leaders and think of what would they do instead of having a real program routine and everything that goes along with that. What's your thought on that?
Yeah, absolutely. And it, and then depending on the size of the company, you know, somet- if there was another you know, player coach before them, then they would've seen something at least to emulate.
Right.
And so that is a form of training, so I don't wanna take away from that aspect. I learned a lot of my management from a great manager. I think was, like, the perfect leader-manager for me for six years in... So I didn't do a lot of leadership management training. I learned a lot from how he led and managed. Yeah. You know? And so- Yeah ... um, that's a training in itself, too, but no, they need- Oh, absolutely ... someone needs to have a path usually.
Yeah. Good stuff. So in your experience when you're... You know, we talked about the responsibilities of the owner. As far as helping the sales manager or the player coach, what would you say, what advice would you give to them as they're starting out?
Probably slow down. You don't have control over the other people, and so just understand that. And probably th- the most important, I would say, is that when it's time for you to sell, just sell and don't worry about the others. And let them know, "Nope," you know, block your calendar off. "I'm selling right now. This, this half a day, fine, send me an email, but don't call me ' cause I'm with customers." And then and when you're in front of your team, don't be answering sales calls. So when you're speaking with someone, don't say, "Oh, sorry, I... this is important, it's a customer." You know, 'cause it, the customer doesn't need you that second. They can wait a few minutes. So be present with who you're in front of, and you will y- you'll have more progress f- with your intention than if you're trying to multitask. Uh, I can... I read some article about that, that we actually lose... Multitasking seems like we're getting more done, but we're actually starting and stopping a lot, and our momentum changes. And when you're working with people That's even worse because we're reading how they're hearing it, what they're saying, listening. And if we're not catching it all, we're asking them again, "What'd you say? What'd you say?" So we're wasting a lot of time there.
Yeah, absolutely. I really that brings up a couple of good topics there. The idea of taking a call while you're helping a person- ... is, is a coup- a couple things are going wrong there.
Yeah.
Um, you're showing the person that you're not so important right now, and the second thing you're doing is teaching them that it's okay to take a call when you're, you know... So both of those things, in my opinion, are wrong. But who am I? Um, but-
Right. But it gets done all the time. Yeah And, uh, matter of fact, I'm turning my ringer off right now 'cause it was going bing, bing, bing, bing. Yeah.
Well, at least you didn't take the call. "Excuse me, I'm on this podcast." Right. "I owe you a customer, so, uh, do you mind?" Yes. But this, being intentional you know, you're encouraging, we wanna encourage sales leaders to ride with reps- ... and to be out in the field with them. May- maybe it's not all day, but maybe it's a half day that you're spending- Yeah some time in the field with the rep. And if all you're doing is catching up on emails and texts and calling the company president and saying, "This is important. No, I gotta take this one, I gotta talk to another rep"- Yeah ... are you really developing? What's your thought on this?
I'm with you 100%. No, that's not developing. Uh, probably that when I mentioned this, uh, manager, he cared about me, but he wasn't, like, the friendly, I'm, you know, we went to lunch a lot. You know, we lived at... we were distant. He was at the corporate headquarters and I was at a outside office. But this is how I know he cared about me. Uh, I'm driving on the way home at 5:30 or so and he's calling. Ding. "Hey. How was your day?" "I was good. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da." It's like, "Oh, really? Oh, I remember that. That's awesome, that. Oh, how's Carolyn?" "Oh, she's good." And, uh, "All right, man. Well, have a great day." "Okay, we'll see you later." You know? Or if I had a problem, he was there to solve it at that moment. He, what he demonstrated was two things. One is that this call wasn't all about how much business did you do today. This call was about how I generally I was doing today. And then secondly, though, he made time for if I had concerns or issues that I needed his advice or counsel on, that, that was fine to take care of that call as well. It wasn't planned, it wasn't scripted, so he didn't have to make it. He could have went home and just did his own thing, but he cared about that. And but he always gave me space to do that. But that, that showed me that he cared, but, um- Yeah. Anyways, I don't, I can't remember exactly where the question was going. We were talking about inside the o- should you do your work when you're working with someone else? No, you should work with them. It should all be about them. A sale to tell you another thing that adds onto that is one of the, what I teach is if you have a sales meeting, the purpose of y- our sales meeting, that sales manager now, and I hope anyone I'm coaching, is that to help these salespeople sell more. The whole purpose of the meeting is for them. So when you're in the car with them, the purpose is to support them, and the, that's your time to energize. And the opposite happens here. When you're not in the car with them and when you're doing other things, it's okay to have a different purpose. You don't have to be available for everyone at every minute to show them you care. Be there when you are.
Yeah, love that. Okay. So we are, uh, just approaching a moment here to hear a word from our sponsor, and we'll get right back into some of the things you do to help grow the sales and be there for the people. So stay tuned welcome back to the Authentic Sales Manager podcast, and with me is, and we've been having a great conversation about being intentional and developing our people as sales leaders. And one of the things that, uh, most business owners like to see is sales growth, and I'm sure you've had opportunities in growing sales for different companies. And sometimes people push back to top performers. "Yeah, they've heard it all before." Mm. "They're good." Yeah. "They don't wanna make any changes. For crying out loud, getting out of their comfort zone." So how, how do you handle those types of situations?
Yeah. So at this particular client I went into, there was one person that was... They dominated sales. They were just excellent at what they did. N- no one had to manage them. They didn't need me to be successful. And matter of fact, their name was on every salesperson of the month plaque that was on the wall. It was always them. And maybe there was one other that hit a deal one month, and so anyway, one of the... So when I joined the company, it w- wasn't to improve this person, it was to elevate the rest of the team, to bring more team members on, to bring a structure that allowed this company to scale its producer group. And so we did that. And, um, and we were... I brought, some of the people were there, got better, and we hired other people in, and it took time. But one of the things, one of the initiatives I brought up that kind of showed me something about one of these top performers is I, I was bringing in, "Hey, let's go after larger accounts, you know, so we can get some big chunk plays along with all our little singles." And the new people were like, "Okay, they... That sounds great," and they were all onto it. And when I went to the top producer, "Oh, what do you think?" And, uh, he was like, "Eh, I don't like those accounts." And so too much work can't count on 'em. And, uh, he's right. They do take more work, and they are more risky, but there's a greater reward. And, um, but he had a system and he... And again, like I said, he did not have to change. He could have just kept doing what he was doing 'cause he was bringing it home to the company, and with good accounts, so good business as well. Yeah. So what, what changed? So I just let him alone. All right, I'm not gonna press him there. As the other team, as we had team meetings and we learn more about how to go after these big accounts, and we weren't whale hunting, we were whale rescuing. We had... I found this video where this, uh, this hus- this father and daughter were rescuing a whale, so I said, "Look, we wanna rescue these whales from their terrible pr- companies they're working with." Anyways, that was fun. Some of the newer, the less productive producers were starting to produce some of these and bring in a large account and s- secure one. And, uh, he noticed, and he started participating. Uh, I think... I don't know what his motive was. I don't... He, we never talked about why. I was just happy he joined in. I don't know if it was from competitive reasons or from just it was more fun, it looked interesting to him. Maybe he saw a different approach. I don't know. But he's, he got into the game and continued to close his standard business, but now he had some big chunk plays as well. Sometimes I guess if I look back on it, it's like You know, you don't, your top producer doesn't have to one that has to do everything you want everyone else to follow. You could still bring other practices into the team and put your energy on where, with the people who are wanting to learn, and some of the other ones will just come along.
Yeah. But I so love that story. My philosophy on that is find if you have a team of, well, however big the team is, it might be one or two people- Yeah ... that you want to explore new ideas with or have some more fun or let's try something different. Yeah. Uh, it catches on, right? I just love that whole concept- ... that, what you shared there and just- That's right ... bring people along, right? Yeah. 'Cause they wanna be part of something that's winning, and maybe it's a little bit- Absolutely different for them, right?
Yeah. Feels good.
Yeah, exactly. So, when you go into an environment that maybe they have not had sales leadership, how do you win people over, or are you concerned about that?
No, I'm not concerned about it. And that's a good thing. But doesn't mean that many people aren't concerned about it, especially those, uh, who are just joining this world called fractional management since it's went from, like, you couldn't find anyone online to whole organizations about it nowadays. You know, 10 years ago it was different.
Yep.
I don't worry about it because it just, maybe just 'cause it's my experience and time in life. But no, I would say even back when I started 20 years ago, so it was just the right time for me to do it.
Yep.
And so I knew what I was doing, and I knew how, you know, how to work with people. I... Maybe 'cause I care about 'em. I care about people, so I think that's a big, big factor. I know that I'm not gonna do anything wrong to them, and I have experience. So you just gotta play out your game. I think what I coach what I find in our manager meetings is that, we talk about this frequently, is, taking the lead, but it's a it's a humble confidence. Because this isn't our business. We're joining this small business, and this business owner has built this business. As a matter of fact, I'm humbled by their success. Regardless of how we look at it and if it's perfect or not perfect, functional, they could be profitably dysfunctional. You know what I mean? That's just the truth about small business and big business.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so it's not about trying to make a business a certain way. It's about having enough confidence that I can join pretty much most organizations and figure out how to bring good practices, hire good people, to help them do more Sometimes we're not successful, and that is because the culture is so strong in a anti-way that from our empowering leadership style, that it's too controlling and then we're usually not successful there.
What do you mean by that in as far as the empowering style there that you- So our empowering style is very clear. First off, we have to have people we believe in, and if we don't believe in them, we either have to fix our thinking or address what we don't believe in. Then we have to set clear expectations because we believe that they can do the job we expect them to do. And so clear- clarify that, create an accountable environment where they can hold themselves and the team and everyone accountable to, like, what we said we'd do, and so we empower that. We don't keep them accountable. They hold themselves accountable. Uh, we have meetings where we learn from each other. And then lastly, we have conversations, like I mentioned earlier about Donald Cassman, that care about people. 'Cause he didn't just say, "How was Carolyn?" She would... He would say, like, "We're gonna, we're gonna have goals that are 30% higher next quarter, so start thinking about it." So he'd give me those little snippets as well. Nice. And so I think what I mean by empowering, empowering really is letting someone do the job you hired them to make, and don't make it my responsibility for their success. My responsibility is about what I explain to them and give them the tools they need. But they have to do the success. Now, if they don't, and I have too many of them that aren't, then that's on me, 'cause my success is having successful people, but I can't make them successful. They have to.
Yeah. They ha- they... we're there, in my opinion, we're there to serve and help them. Yes. Right. Give them what they need, make sales easier, as much as easy as possible- We can ... for them to grow. But they have to do the lifting. They have to do- Yes ... the heavy lifting, right? Right. They have to make the changes, they have to make the calls, they have to show up.
I wanna share this story- Please
'cause this just, I was reminded of this story yesterday. So one of my managers and I were talking about, like, you know, he's struggling with owner, getting an owner alignment, and then w- then it was talking about the team was, the team's been resistant and, you know, and there's a little bit of dysfunction in between the, uh, the companies. But I had one, I s- so we were, I was trying to give him a different way you can go at it. Sometimes you just can't change your manager. You have to just go to the team. And sometimes you can't make the team do what you want them to do. So there was a point where I, I had a team that was just habitually complainers. Like, I joined this team and it's like, it seemed like, man, what did the other manager do? All they do, come to a sales meeting, they just, someone throws the complaint out and it is dog pile time, and I'm just like, my energy's just going down. And so I try to do some positive things and this, and then bring some new ideas and positive. Then finally, one day, I just said like, "Tsh." I mean, I was just, I was, like, on the edge of just, "I'm just gonna quit today." And I just basically, they saw that in me. I said, like, "I don't know what to do, guys. I don't know what you're doing." I just had to tell them, "You gotta let me c- all you guys do is complain. You never wanna solve it. You just wanna complain about it." It's like I can't live there. You guys..." And so basically what I was, we got to was like, "Do you want me to be your leader?" And, um, that was at the, that was at a point where I wanted them to sign up for me to be their leader, not me to make them wanna follow me. And fortunately, they were a good group of people, and they just needed to be, someone needed to just shout out, "Shut up." And so it was a great time. I probably was there for another two and a half years, and great relationships, and yeah, no one just to- no one just really pointed out, "You know, you guys are complainers." And- Oh my goodness, that's such a great story ... it changed. Yeah, it did change. Uh, I, I totally can relate to-
hearing the complaining and as soon as it goes down that path, it's like, "Okay, what can we, what can we c- control?" Yeah. Right? Typically, the complaint is something that's out of our control, so what can we control? Yeah, it's a great way. And it gets you thinking positively, but yeah, it's like a lot of times people in sales don't recognize that they're leaders. Like, you're, you're leading, right? Using the John Maxwell definition that leading is influence, and in sales we're all about influence. We can't make a person sign.
Correct.
But we can definitely be influencers. And, if we're the complainers, the Negative Nellies in the office, are we taking that out in the field? So inspiring, right? Just calling it out sometimes is just so good to hear.
You know, and you know where the habit c- where that habit starts is the where- why that team had become a complainer was that- Management ownership wasn't listening. So they just, they were used to things not getting solved. So my responsibility was calling out what their behavior was doing that wasn't working. Yeah. But then it was my responsibility to get to the core issues and get them to think and realize that I will listen and I will solve this. Yeah. Give me time. And as I bring back as a own- as a manager of a, a leader of a team to solve the issues they can't solve- Yeah ... to solve the issues that I have to solve, then the trust comes, and then the complaining goes down because now we're having business conversations. You know, "We're having a problem in between us and the support or delivery or whatever. It's just not working." "Oh, what is it? What's not working?" And then we get in there and fix it. And then I go to the owner, "Can you fix this?" "Absolutely." Because people aren't screaming with emotion. We're just talking. We all have the same goal. Let's take care of the customer.
Yeah, absolutely. Great stuff. This has been a blast. Where can people find more of you, sir?
Easiest way is probably, well, LinkedIn, you can find me. You know, just type in Sales Manager Now, or hit the website is Find Sales Manager Now. Or just give me a call, but you have to find my phone number, okay, so
Well, website and LinkedIn sounds good enough. I really appreciate you coming on. So much good advice, and- Thank you ... and storytelling. I love it all. So, uh, much success to you and Sales Manager Now, and thank you for joining us today.
Okay. And I gotta say, I gotta say thank you for doing what you're doing. Uh, that you're just who you are always comes through, authentic and a real person. So thanks for having me on the show.
All right. I'll send you a couple of bucks for that one.
Okay, you got it. Thanks. I'll, I'll send it.
Thanks again.
Okay, bye bye.