The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

Brief Summary of Show:

 

In this episode of The Silvercore Podcast, Travis Bader speaks with Dylan Eyers from EatWild. They recount their recent hunting season highlights and discuss what firearms are a good option for beginners, some considerations when purchasing your first firearm such as calibre size and recoil, stainless or blued firearms, new or used firearms, and more. Tune in for answer’s you won’t want to miss out on. 

 

If you have a story that would be of value to the Silvercore audience, or know someone who does, email us at podcast@silvercore.ca.  We would love to hear from you!

 

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

Silvercore Podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing,
and outdoor pursuits

with the people in
businesses that comprise

of the community.

If you're new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

you you can learn more
about courses, services,

and products we offer.

As well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club,

which includes 10 million
in North America, wide

liability insurance,to
ensure you are properly

covered during your
outdoor adventures.

This is a unique episode,
as it could be listened

to you on both the
Silvercore and EatWild

distribution networks.

I get the opportunity to
recount some highlights

from this year's hunting
season with my buddy

Dylan, and we provide
our thoughts on firearm

and calibre selection
for both new and

experienced hunters.

And we're live.

We're live.

Hey Travis.

Hey Dylan.

Okay, great to
see you, man.

And I glad that you're
coming and hanging

out here with me on
the EatWild Podcast.

Now this is a bit
of a unique podcast

because I'm introducing
you to the concept

of the swap cast.

And this is where
basically we're just

getting together
for a conversation.

And as we get into
this, we'll, we'll talk

a bit more about what
Silvercore does and your

journey into podcasting.

Well school me
on a swap cast.

What does that mean?.

Okay.

Okay, okay, okay.

So the podcast concept
is something that was

introduced to me by
the rookie hunters and

the journal of mountain
hunting podcast.

And basically, it's just
an opportunity where you

hang out with the host
of another podcast, and

then you essentially
share that podcast on

each other's platform.

And really it's an
opportunity for me to

get introduced to your
followers and people

who are listening to
the Silvercore Podcast

and then flip it around
and well, of course you

get to hang out with me
and the vast listening

audience, I like to say,
of the EatWild Podcast.

So either way we get to
meet a few people and

still just have fun.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

Man that sounds great.

I mean, your audience,
Silvercore audience,

there's going to be
a lot of crossover

there anyways.

And if they haven't heard
of the EatWild podcast

on Silvercore, then now
they can go check it

out, and vice versa.

If the EatWild audience
hasn't heard of

Silvercore, guess what?

We've got a podcast,
check it out.

There you go.

Perfect.

Okay.

Love it.

So starting there.

Hey, so let's do the
formal introduction.

Okay, everybody welcome
to the EatWild podcast.

I'm sitting down with
my friend, Travis from

Silvercore and Travis
has been involved in the

training industry for
a while for some time

now and focused on, you
know, firearms, training,

hunting training, and
he's taken that business

into a whole bunch
of cool directions.

Lately he's been
playing around with

developing the Silvercore
podcast and without

further ado, welcome.

Welcome Travis.

Welcome to the EatWild
podcast and the

swap cast with the
Silvercore podcast.

Welcome.

Hey, I'm looking
forward to it.

We always have fun when
we do these things.

Yeah, we did this gosh
a while back and it was

actually one of my, the
more popular podcasts

that we talked about.

We kind of got into
firearms and firearms

maintenance and.

That's right.

Had a lot of feedback.

That was probably the one
podcast that generated

the most people kind of
reaching out and saying,

Hey, I actually learned
something in your podcast

and really appreciated
the knowledge.

So yeah, that
one carried us.

Yeah.

That was my very
first podcast.

And you know, I never
really listened to

podcasts prior to, I
was one live podcast

I went to, I just.

Don't seem to have the
time to listen unless

I'm driving and I've
situated my work.

And everything's
so close to my home

that, I just didn't
know much about them.

You introduced me to the
podcast world, Dylan.

And here you are,
now you're like, now

you've trying to find
time just to have that

next conversation.

And by the sounds of
it, you're a little

bit hooked on doing it.

You're having some fun.

So tell me a little bit
about the Silvercore

podcast and what's it
about and, yeah, where

are you heading with it?

Oh, it's great fun.

You know, it was a,
not having listened

to podcasts really
before, it was a

complete new experience.

Like, what am I
supposed to do?

What do I talk about?

Right.

And what are people
actually going to be

listening to this?

And after doing the
podcast with you, got

you know, kind of an idea
of the format and what

people are looking for.

And I took my office here
in Tilbury and decided,

I know let's move the
entire office staff

outta here, got another
location in Ladner

and turned the Tilbury
location into a studio.

So we've got, I've picked
up some video cameras

for some of the online
stuff that we do and my

office, I don't know.

It's hard to see from
this, we're using an

online service here,
but I've gone and

soundproofed it and
set it up as a podcast

room and just slowly
plugging away, having

a lot of fun with it.

And really I'm, the
reason why I'm doing

it is because it's fun.

It's a positive
outlet and it's a

chance to share with
others, my passion.

And it seems to be
well-received so.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's been fun.

And I think more than
anything this time

of year, this year in
particular, just with

trying to stay connected,
a lot of us are using

these video platforms
just to see our families

and friends and, you
know, have a virtual

beer with your crew.

So really this is just
a way of connecting

with and that's what
actually this series of

podcasts, isn't why I
called you up as I was

like, well it's the tail
end of hunting season.

You know, I'm gonna
call up my buddies and

talk about hunting and
how the season was.

So why not do that, and
get my act together,

record it and call
it a podcast series.

So this is like the
catching up with my

hunting partners or
hunting buddies series,

and then hopefully
tackle one question

for each episode.

So we're going to get
caught up a little bit.

And then I think the
topic, one of the

questions that I get
and, you no doubt get

this as well as a hunting
educator and as someone

who certifies people
for firearms and firearm

safety is like, what
firearms should I buy?

If I was going to
buy one firearm, what

firearm should I buy?

And you know, that
conversation, I find I've

been through it a number
of times, but I thought,

Hey, if we record it
on a podcast, then next

time someone asks you
that question, which will

probably be tomorrow.

You can be like,
Hey, you can listen

to my podcast about
which gun you should

buy as a new hunter.

Ahh, look at you.

So really we're
winning at all fronts

here, you know.

Look at you.

I like it.

So hunting, I saw you,
you and Rob actually.

So you guys pulled
yourself a pretty nice

Muley there just on
the weekend didn't ya?

That's a black tail.

That was a that's
my first black tail.

Oh you got a black
tail, not, very nice.

Yeah.

Rob took me to one
of his secret spots

and I've been kind
of hacking around.

I'm not, typically I'm
kind of done hunting

by this time of year.

I usually wrap up
my hunting season

around November,
well, November 15.

So that's the end of
my white tail hunt,

and usually I've got a
white tail and hopefully

I've got a mule deer
earlier in the season

and I'm feeling pretty
set for the year.

But I didn't get a white
tail this year and I

also couldn't go back
out for a white tail,

because there was the
provincial regulations

around not traveling
here in British Columbia.

And so I sort of
committed to spending

some time locally and
exploring the black tail

hunting opportunities.

And I kinda was dabbling
in it earlier this month.

I got out for a couple
of weekends to a spot

that a friend of mine,
an old timer friend of

mine has been trying to
put me on for a while

and kind of got a bit
of a taste for it.

Like just found a
few black tails.

I was like, Oh, they
like this really steep,

challenging, ugly, hard
to climb through forest.

Okay, I think I know
where they live now.

And so I was kind of
excited to dedicate

some more time to it.

So that was.

So you didn't get
yourself, your white

tail this year, eh?

Cause that's sort
of your thing.

No.

You're known for that.

I just, Oh man, I was
feeling like really in

the dumps about it too.

Like I, and not
because I didn't

kill a deer, that's
actually not at all.

I mean, I had, it's the
change in ecosystems

that I like to hunt.

Like the place that I
like to hunt, there's

been a lot of forestry
activity in the area

and it just reducing the
amount of winter range

available for the deer,
elk, white tail and

mule deer in the area.

So every year I go
back, that's just like

one less place that I
used to hunt for like

my whole life is gone.

Like it's just newt
and I was like,

Oh, well, great.

And so it's just kind
of heartbreaking when

you're like, wow,
there's a reason.

Like when I was a kid,
we used to see, I

used to be a good day
was I see 20 deer and

four or five bucks.

And I saw three bucks
this year, which

was, last year I
only saw one buck in

10 days of hunting.

This year I actually
had three opportunities

at deer and it just
didn't work out this

year, but I figure
three opportunities is

still pretty good for
a six or seven day hunt

Yeah you hunted
hard last year.

Yeah, last year
was brutal.

Like last year was
the same thing.

So it was sort of
feeling like, I knew

this was coming.

I knew there was going
to be a year that I,

you know, this is the
first year since I was 12

years old that I didn't
kill a white tail deer.

And so that was a
good run, but had

to come to an end.

Well, there you go.

So I took it out on
some poor black tail.

Nice.

Yeah so, I was eager
to get back out there.

And I found a new
spot and it's a nice

timber and yeah, I
had a great hunt.

Beauty.

Learned something new.

Beauty.

Which I like the best,
found a new spot.

So I'm pumped and I
might be hooked on black

tail hunting cause it's
so God damn hard so.

You love the
challenge do ya?

Well, like I like
find in places hey.

Like just finding places
it's like, you gotta

put on a lot of miles,
you got to figure things

out, you puzzle it out.

And then yeah, if you
can find a spot then it's

cool when it works out.

Yeah, I think
you nailed it.

It's a lot of
work to get there.

You nailed it.

It's like a puzzle.

You start putting
everything together

and relying on what
you know, and it's

a learning process
as well through it.

It's a, that
is a fun part.

Oh, I love it.

Okay so this is
what we're doing.

We're talkin hunting and
we're getting caught up.

So what was the
highlight of your

hunting season this year?

Oh, highlight that
definitely be, well,

my son got his first
deer, 11 years old.

So last year, 10 years
old, all he wanted for

his birthday was to get
his hunting license.

He wanted to get
his FWID, fish and

wildlife ID is what
we call it in BC.

And so he studied and
studied and studied and

finally on his birthday,
went in, took him to

another instructor,
had him go through, he

aced it, super happy.

And went out, did some
hunting, but he wasn't

doing any harvesting
in his first year.

And so this year we go
out and actually there

was, for waterfowl
heritage days.

So out in BC we've got
our heritage days, which

Junior hunters, youth
hunters can get out a

little bit early before
everybody else learn

what it's all about.

And so from one of our
local gun stores in

Ladner, Stillwater Sports
is a guy there by the

name of Jens Cuthbert.

And he's got an Instagram
account if you're into

waterfowl hunting,
it's 604 Backwoods

and he lives and
breathes and sleeps,

this is what he does
is waterfowl hunting.

He says, Trav, tell
you what, if your son's

interested, waterfowl
heritage stadays,

days come on out.

So, took him out and he
used to do guiding in

the States for waterfowl
and we actually did a

Silvercore Podcast where
he talks about how new

people can get into it
in the lower mainland and

find their spots and all
the ins and outs there.

So any of these went
out and my son got his

first Mallard and was
stoked because he said,

you know, I didn't
know if I'd be able

to, I didn't know what
it'd be like right.

Having to harvest
an animal.

So a week later we're out
and he's got himself a, a

draw for a mule deer doe.

We head on out and drive
out of Delta and we see

in burns bog, a deer.

We're like, Oh hey,
good sign, this

is looking good.

And then we get out
to our location and

we don't see anything,
we're not seeing anything

on the road there.

Yeah.

20 minutes from the
house, there's a deer.

Then you get out,
drive for five hours.

That's right.

And so we get out there
and putting the time in.

And so anyways, one
morning, just miserable

out and we're out
there bright and early

and figure we're in a
pretty good location

and he's getting cold.

And I got to remember
11 years old, you gotta

keep it fun too right?

You can't just
be, you can't just

be, going hard.

So we get back into
the vehicle and we're

warming up and I say,
tell you what, there's

another area around
the corner, scouted,

it looked promising.

Let's just go for a
real quiet walk right?

We'll get out into this
area, we'll check it out.

So we do and we're
about to add about 20

minutes into our walk
and I'm looking up on the

hillside and there we go.

There's his doe that
he's got to draw for,

but I'm looking, it's
kind of far and he's

been practicing at the
range and I'm thinking,

you know, I want to
close that distance.

Well, let's see
what we can do.

So I don't tell him
and we're just still

doing the quiet
walk and getting

closer and closer.

And the deer's just
standing there and I'm

like, if it's meant to
be, it's meant to be.

We finally get into
a position where it

felt, okay, we've
closed enough distance.

It's a perfect
broadside shot.

And I looked back to
my son, I said, okay.

And he's got
some electronic

hearing protection.

I said, okay, ears.

Ears are on.

I said, okay, load
your firearm, you look

up on the hill there,
there's a deer and

he's loaded it on up.

And he gets on up and
I said, maybe get into

a kneeling position.

Oh, right okay.

So he gets down and gets
to do a little bit more

stable platform and I
said, okay safety?

Oh, right, yeah safety.

Here we go.

And I mean, everything's
going through the head

and I thought, well, now
it's up to him right.

And if he pulls the
trigger, fair enough.

If he doesn't fair
enough, I mean, it's

up to him right.

And he did, and he made
the shot and I think

we watched, sat there,
waited for about half

an hour, 45 minutes
and said, okay, let's

get on out there.

And let's do
some tracking.

Got in and man, he
was just ecstatic.

And so I got to say that
that was the highlight

of the hunting trip.

We've cooking up some
backstraps over the

campfire at night and
recounting the story

and coming back and
making some burgers.

And I mean, he was
just in heaven and

my wife was there and
she's a chef by trade.

And so helping them
out and identifying and

doing all the butchering.

And so this is all a part
of his schooling process,

as well as the hunting
and the butchering and

the cooking, because
due to COVID, one's

in high school and the
other one we thought,

well, we'll homeschool.

He can, he's doing his
ground school for pilot

training and hunting
and all the things

that a boy wants to
do and why not right?

Yeah, right on.

So that, that had to
be a highlight for me.

How bout you?

Yeah.

Oh, well, that's, I was
just thinking about how

cool it would be to be
11 years old and dad's

like, you know what?

You're out of school,
you're going to hunt

a lot this summer
and this fall.

Cause, that would
be my dream of

school as a kid so.

And you know what,
it's what he wants.

Actually we're talking
about it today cause he

and I went out on real
quick hunt here just

in the lower mainland
for some waterfowl

and he says, you know,
when I get older, do

you think my kids will
want to hunt with me?

I said, well, you'd be
pretty lucky if they do.

I said, if they're not
into hunting, he says,

well, what if they're,
what if they're totally

not into hunting?

What if they're, what
if they're vegans?

And I said, if they're
vegans, you know,

as long as you guys
are respectful of

each other, I'm sure
it'll be just fine.

But you'll be very
lucky if they share

some of the same hobbies
and passions as you.

And there's lots
of cool forging.

You can do out there.

That's it!

You can go get mushrooms.

Totally.

And cool wild
plants and berries.

And you can.

That's it!

You can bring your
gun and, you know, you

could shoot a grouse
and your kids can pick

berries and mushrooms,
you know, it's all good.

Yeah.

Figure it out.

It'll all be good.

Yeah.

No for sure.

Well, I totally, I shared
a little bit of that same

experience this year out,
my friend, Mickey, who

I spent a lot of time
with and she had wants to

be a hunter and she did
dedicate a lot of time

to becoming a hunter.

And so I was on riding
shotgun for her first

hunt and very similar to
your story, but I won't

tell it cause I've got
her lined up to tell

her story with one of
our, another one of our

friends who's also a
very successful huntress.

So got to leave that
story for them to tell.

Oh very cool.

And not gonna step on her
story, but man, I tell

you, like there's nothing
better than being there

for somebody else's first
time, or any hunt really

just being along with.

Oh it's fantastic!

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

It's the whole process,
that's what I enjoy,

is being out there,
being in the woods,

connecting with nature
and just the process of

sort of disconnecting
from the day-to-day,

the technology, the
cell phones, computers,

and all the rest and
just kind of getting

back to the basics.

And whether I'm
successful on a hunt

or not, it really
doesn't matter to me.

You know, I go hunting
with some people and

they gotta be successful
and that's the whole

hunts around that.

And if they're not
successful, it kind of

makes for a negative
hunt or kind of a

crummy experience right.

And so I've hopefully
instilling the same sort

of values in my children.

And it seems to be
sticking anyways.

Yeah, that's cool.

I totally know what
you, I fight off that

sentiment of needing to
have success on a hunt.

Like I'm conscious
of it constantly.

Like how much, obviously
I'm a bit of a driver

when it comes to hunting,
given the amount.

Right.

I hunt and how passionate
about I am, but I.

Yeah.

My friends have
commented lately.

They're like Dylan,
like, this is great.

Like, you're really
like, you're really

chilling out.

Like it's kind of a
conscious decision, I

finally realized now,
you can control a lot

of things when you hunt.

I mean, it's all about
effort and time spent,

but I really come to
a point now where I

recognize that I have
enough confidence in

my approach to hunting
than if I just apply

my approach and give
myself enough time that

it's going to work out.

If it's gonna work out,
it's going to work out.

That's it!

I don't like, that's
it like exactly so I

don't need to have.

And really what can
you really control?

And you say you can
control a lot of things.

You can plan for a lot
of things, you can put

different things in
place, but the actual

control factor, I mean,
if you want to get

real esoteric would at
Viktor Frankl say he's

about control, the one
thing, essentially,

the only thing you can
control is yourself.

And he was that guy
in the concentration

camp right, who had
all his, everything

taken from, and he was
watching people and

some were just beside
themselves and just

completely overwhelmed.

And some people are
finding happiness

despite all of the
adversity they're facing.

And he says, the one
thing you can't take

from me is the way I
choose to respond to

what you do to me.

The last life's great
freedoms is one's

ability to control
their own attitude in

any given circumstance.

So really if, when I
look at it, I kind of

boil it down to that.

If I'm out there and
I'm having fun, great.

I can put all the pieces
in place and it can

all go sideways right.

But I can control
that, whether I

choose to be having
fun with that or not.

Totally.

Totally.

No.

And that's something
I'm learning that as

I get older and well,
I've known it forever.

It just, as you get
older, you apply,

it's a life lesson.

You just have to
apply it and apply

it and apply it.

And then when you see
that, when you see that

competitive nature or
that, that person inside

you coming out, you're
like, oh hey, you know

what, I know better.

I know that I'm going
to enjoy this more if

I just like, let that
go and allow myself

to enjoy the moment and
the place and the people

around me and not get
caught up in outcomes

because that just leads
to problems in the end.

And for me anyways.

I think so, you
know, but you know,

everyone's different.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, totally
well, I'm having a

lot of fun these days
hunting and still having

success even despite,
you know, not being as,

as caught up in outcome
so yeah, it's all great.

So it all worked
out this year and it

had a great, yeah.

Great last, had
a great season.

So I can't
complaint, but.

That's fantastic.

It's cool I was, I was
riding shotgun too for,

no I wasn't quite ridding
shotgun, I was at a

good friend, Ryan, he
brought his son to white

tail camp, who was 10.

And Wyatt is like, oh
he's just, I just love

this kid, he's just
so, he's such a hunter.

And he's, his dad's
a really good hunter

too, which is cool.

Like they've been hunting
mule deer together

in the south Okanagan
sneaking around and

they've killed a few deer
together, like sneaking

around dad's shot,
you know, nice deer.

And this year, the
plan was to get

Wyatt his first deer.

He's 10 years old and
he's legal, ready to go.

And the plan was
to try and get him

his first buck.

And they ended up
sneaking up on a

white tail buck
laying in it's bed.

And they got into.

Wow.

80 yards and
Wyatt shot it.

Wow!

So I've got to say
like, that's pretty

good hunting, man.

If you could sneak
up on a white tail.

No kidding!

Especially two of ya.

I was pretty impressed.

So yeah, the little
guy was so chuffed.

Oh, wow.

Stars are lining
up on that one.

They're doing
their job right.

Well, you know what, Ryan
is such a good hunter.

He kind of had all
figured out, how he

was going to do it.

And he made it happen
and picked kind of a

spot that's conducive
to making it happen.

And, but the best part
was, is like that little

kid that he was like, so
they shot the deer pretty

early in the morning and
they got it back to camp.

And so like I'm sure
he was just couldn't

wait for the rest
of the hunting camp

to come back at like
noon, like to be like.

Oh, so proud.

Yeah, so proud.

It was so awesome.

Came back and yeah, it
was like, yeah, that

was the most fun it's
I've had this hunting

season, so pretty cool.

But hey.

Okay, cool.

Hey, so we didn't do
a great job of talking

about what your podcast's
about and what you're up

to with your podcast so.

We really didn't.

You know, you've got the
EatWild podcast and right

there in the title, it
says eat wild, I mean,

there's a descriptor
of what the podcast

is going to be about.

So I've got the
Silvercore Podcast and

of course, Silvercore is
my business and I named

it after my grandfather
Silver Armano and my

other grandfather,
Cornelius Bader.

Silver and Core.

Oh cool.

Yeah.

Oh cool, I
didn't know that.

One was a Vancouver
police detective,

the other one was
a entrepreneur,

ran a large bakery.

He would say that they
were bigger than dad's

oatmeal cookies, that
they made cookies.

But they owned a city
block or so in and around

commercial drive by the
Croatian Cultural Centre

is now, with bakeries.

So I thought, well,
you know, I'm into

the firearms thing
and that's kinda

like one grandfather,
and then I've got

the entrepreneurial
spirit, it's like the

other one, I'll just
combine them together.

So there isn't a heck
of a lot of descriptor

for what it is we do
and the podcast, while

we talk about hunting,
firearms, fishing,

foraging, outdoor related
activities, really it's

an outlet for me just
to bring positivity

into the community.

I don't do it for any
remuneration, and it's

got the Silvercore name
so whatever publicity

that can bring on
in for the company,

hey, that's great.

But aside from that, I
try to find interesting

people and talk about
things that are going

to be, typically I stay
away from the politics

and stay away from
uber contentious issues

that are going to be
divisive because it is a

positive outlet for me.

Like I had a Guy Cramer
in and he invented

the invisible cloak,
and it sounds funny

until he brings it in
and shows it to you.

And it's an array of
lenticular lenses with

a special fluid in
between and it refracts

light in such a way that
you can get behind it

and you disappear, but
the background doesn't

and so we talked about
that cause it's got

some crossover in the
camouflage world right.

Yeah.

We had Colin Dowler
and I actually, I

flew into his location
and spoke with him.

And he was in an
encounter with a grizzly

bear and fought it off
with his pocket knife,

while he was in the
Grizzlies mouth being

mauled and I mean,
the guy almost died.

Then he had to get on his
bicycle and bike about

7K back with his one good
leg bleeding everywhere

and so, it really doesn't
have a pinpoint direction

for the podcast.

But if you're interested
in hunting, if you're

interested in fishing
and foraging and outdoor

related activities, we
try to have the podcast

navigate around those
topics but it really is a

sort of a positive outlet
for people to hopefully

learn and listen and
enjoy something new.

Yeah, right on.

And I think it's so
important I mean, and

you know, I definitely
wouldn't, keep it, I

listened a bit too to
your podcast for sure and

I see, I keep track of
ya and I see what you're,

you know, I think that
bringing that positive

lens to like, you know,
I'm really trying to

bring that positive
lens of the hunting.

Yeah.

That's what EatWild's
been about the whole

time and I see you doing
that, really for the

firearms education world.

And like you're telling
positive stories as

one of the leaders
in firearms education

here in Canada.

And I think it's great
to have your voice at

the front of that talking
about not just firearms,

but you know, the
spectrum of things that

are part of a way of life
that include firearms.

And I kind of liked that,
I think it's important

and I think we need more
of that because I think

a lot of people who are
perceived as the voice

of the firearms advocacy
world that are doing a

good job of communicating
with the broader society.

And I applaud you
for doing that and

taking these steps.

I think you're doing
a good job of it so.

Oh, thanks, Dylan.

Appreciate that.

And it's hard work.

It's a hard place to
sit because you end

up, there's still
controversy when it comes

to people's perception
of firearms and such.

And that's it.

There is a perception
and it's an

emotionally charged
topic for summers.

I see for anybody
who's been negatively

affected by a firearm,
far be it for me to try

and change their mind.

But I can speak to
the things that I

know and the things
that are positive.

And if other people
can take some level

of positivity away
from that, great.

Cool.

Well, that lends itself
right to our topic here.

Okay.

Talking about.

Yeah.

So the reason why I
thought, I mean, other

than just wanting to
say hello and catching

up and sharing a couple
of hunting stories.

I did want to talk
about, like I said at

the introduction, this
is one of the most common

questions that I get as
a hunting instructor,

which is, you know,
what firearms should

I buy as a new hunter?

And I thought of you,
because I know you, I

believe in addition to
doing all the things

you've talked about,
you're also a gunsmith

and you've been training
people around firearms

for a long time so I
figured you're the right

guy to ask this question.

So, okay, so the
first question is if,

what should the first
firearm that a new

hunter should buy?

The very first firearm?

And now this is going to
be for a hunter and not

just a sports shooter,
we're saying, right?

No.

Yeah, we're taking it.

We're going through
the lens of somebody

who's on the trajectory
that wants to become a,

you know, an ethical,
safe, successful hunter.

So there's a, now you
do realize that these

are wormhole questions
that we're going into.

And the reason why
people ask it is because

everyone's got an
opinion and the best

thing that I think you
and I can do right now

is share our experience
with the listeners so

that they can make the
best educated decision

that works for them.

Because what's going
to be the first firearm

for me, or for my
family members, or

for you, might not
be the best for them.

There's a lot of talk
of, oh hey, you should

start out with a 22,
and I don't disagree

with that because
it gets you familiar

with firearms safety.

It gets you familiar with
something that's knocking

to break the bank, it's
not going to recoil a

hole, you're not going
to have pain from recoil.

The most offensive thing
for the 22, for the

shooter standpoint ,is
going to be the noise.

And it's really not that
loud compared to most

of these firearms right.

And that logic is sound
if somebody wants to just

start out and learn how
to use that firearm, and

maybe they want to do
some small game hunting.

But there are principles
that you learn on a 22

that some would argue
would have to relearn on

a firearm that's going
to be inducing recoil.

Sure.

And so some people, some
proponents would say, get

something that's going
to do what you need it

to do for the larger game
first and go into it.

With firearms, for some
people anyways, they

can be a gateway to
more firearms right?

The collection
gets bigger and

bigger and bigger.

And it's because there
is no perfect calibre

or no perfect gun.

But if someone.

Okay, but for the purpose
of this conversation,

we're going to assume
that we're talking

to somebody who
lives in a condo in

downtown Vancouver.

Okay.

That is going to struggle
to find this place

even to put this gun,
or two guns we'll say,

not, I think that you
know, I think the end

result of where these
folks want to get to

is the least amount of
investment in firearms

for the maximum amount
of practical application.

And that seems to me the
core of the discussion

that I get from people.

Right.

And the other thing
is, I think people

want to, I mean as much
as I'd like to talk

about calibres and the
virtues of the different

calibres and what
their performances are

ballistic qualities are.

I think at the end of the
day, that I think it's

helpful for a number of
people just to be told

what to do from an expert
with sound concept.

So, 'get this
gun, full go'?

Well, yeah, let's
try and say that.

So it's three guns.

It's our end result.

It's three guns that
they're looking for.

They're looking for
a 22, they're looking

for a shotgun and
they're looking for a

centerfire rifle and then
you've kind of got the

gamut for everything.

The shotgun allows you
to not have to drive too

far in order to learn
from other people how

to use that firearm,
if you're in the lower

mainland area anyways.

I mean, the we've got
the Vancouver Gun Club,

which is in Richmond,
but it's called the

Vancouver Gun Club and
you can take your shotgun

out there, ammo doesn't
cost a bunch of money.

You can shoot around the
sporting clays, you can

learn from other people.

And it's sort of
like a quick round

of golf, essentially.

He going through the
backwoods there, clay

birds fly up in the
air, or they got the

little rabbits that run
along that ,a different

type of clay that will
run along the ground.

And you get to learn
how to use that shotgun.

And if you want it to get
into waterfowl hunting

well, I mean, it's pretty
close, we've got a lot

of areas right here.

We've got that podcast
through Silvercore,

here we go, shameless
plug, but where Dennis

Zentner and Jens Cuthbert
go through and talk

people through how
to get into waterfowl

hunting if they're the
Vancouver urbanite.

So that would be one.

The 22 is great
because ammo is cheap.

The 22 isn't going to
break the bank and you

can learn about firearms
usage, you can practice

your firearm safety and
you can start taking it

out to do target practice
or small game hunting.

And so the 22 is a
great resource there.

And then finally, they're
going to be looking

for a centerfire rifle.

Well, okay.

Before we go onto
the centerfire, let's

talk about, well,
there's two things you

brought up, which I
really thought well,

that are interesting.

So we'll come back to
the 22, but I do like

that the one thing about
a shotgun and like the,

and I haven't done a
great job with this as

a hunting instructor, or
even as EatWild, who has

lived so close to well,
who has been advocating

for accessible hunts.

Like duck hunting and
goose hunting is probably

the most accessible hunt.

And we, you know, we
have an overpopulation

of geese here
arguably, throughout

lower mainland.

And if you can find a
way to gain access to

a piece of property
where geese live and

hunt there legally, it's
an awesome resource.

So it's not a bad way
to say, like, you know,

if you want to hunt and
you want to get some

confidence and learn
about shooting and then

yeah going the shotgun
route and hunting,

you know, waterfowl
or migratory game

birds is a great idea.

Sure.

And the other piece
that I really liked

what you said there,
and I hadn't thought

about it, but like the
accessibility and how

much fun it is to go to
shoot skeet and to go to

a like a shotgun range
and shoot clay birds,

basically flying disks.

And then just the
tremendous support and

mentorship that's at
those types of clubs.

Cause it really is like,
it's really fun, like

it's a really supportive
fun environment.

It's totally fun.

If you go there with
the attitude to learn

and without a chip on
your shoulder, which

basically everyone does
when they go to these

places, people flock to
you because they want

to help you and share
what they know with you.

And sometimes it might
get a little overwhelming

and you say, okay, okay,
hold on, I got to put

things together on my own
a little bit here, but.

Yeah.

There's no shortage
of people who

want to help you.

Yeah, no, I've
experienced that.

I've had a lot of fun
at, you know, just

getting to know some
of the older generation

that are passionate
about shooting.

And I think it's, you
know, honestly, they

probably recognize it as
probably something that

needs a bit of new blood
to be entered into these

clubs and to use these
facilities, otherwise

they're just not going
to exist much longer.

So I think they, you
know, they embrace new

people coming around and
it's absolutely a hoot.

And I like how you liken
it to a round a golf

cause it's, you know,
I think for 15 bucks,

you buy a box of shells
and you buy two boxes

of shells and you can
go goof around for a

couple hours and shoot
a few rounds of skeet

or rounds of birds.

And it's, clay
birds I should say

and boy is it fun.

So yeah, I think that's.

Totally.

A cool, cool thing to do.

And it hasn't really
been something that

I've done a lot of and,
but it's something that

I think that, yeah I
should be talking about

that more and I'm glad
you brought it up.

So that's one option,
get out there with

your shotgun, learn
to shoot skeet, tons

of lessons there,
transitioned to birds.

You'll fill your freezer.

Totally.

Totally.

And that's an
obsession as well.

I mean, we did a podcast
with three new hunters

that just got into it
little by little, and

then they got the boat
and then they're getting

further and further.

Actually they ended
up finding a body

in the marsh, and
so that was what the

podcast was about.

Woah.

That was an
interesting one.

And ended up getting
the hovercraft

and RCMP in there.

Oh, dear.

Yeah.

So that was, and I
see, actually MeatEater

just ran something
about that, a week

ago I think it was.

Just what to do if you're
in the woods and you

find something like that.

I can't say I know
too many people that

happens too, but I know
those three people.

Anyways, that one
took a bit of a turn.

Wow, that's terrible.

Yeah, for sure, that
wasn't where it was

expected to go but.

Right.

So the one gun, I don't
know who says it, beware

the man with one gun,
he knows how to use it

or beware the person
with one gun, they

know how to use it.

Right.

Well, let's go back to
22 because I think that's

an important conversation
that I want to reinforce,

just the value of a 22
and that you mentioned

it's cheap to shoot,
and that's one thing I

like about the 22, it's
also, it's not loud.

It's not, like you can
take a 22 and go out

to a logging / legal
shooting area and you

can set up some targets
and you can just have

some good, fun shooting
recreation in a safe way.

And it's not super loud,
so you're not going

to be like blowing out
the entire valley if

people are camped down
below you or nearby.

Which is the reality of
shooting high powered

firearms is that it
can really affect the

whole experience for
other people, not in

an appropriate range
or, you know, well back

and away from other
recreating people.

But definitely spent some
time in the Chilliwack

valley for both my work
and poked around there

looking for places
to actually shoot.

Right.

It's really like, it's
pretty intense what's

happening, in terms of
the shooting culture

that's happening there
and pretty intense.

So I would encourage
people to definitely

like get a 22 cause
then you can take it

with you when you go
camping in the summer

and drive out of town.

And maybe part of your
recreational plan is

to set aside a couple
of hours of practice

your markspersonship
and shoot a bunch.

And have some fun with
it and hopefully not have

an impact on other people
as you're shooting right.

When you say it's
intense, are you

talking about Yahoo's?

Oh God, like I've
never, and I don't even

think it's, I'm pretty
good about it, cause

I'll talk to people.

I'll be like, hey
how's it going?

And you know, but it's
intense because there's a

lot of activity going on,
there's a lot of people.

Okay.

Who are set up shooting,
four by fouring.

You know, God knows
what they're out to.

It's like and of
course, like I'm a

park ranger, right?

Like, I can't help it.

Like, you know, I look
at everybody through

like, hmm are they a
camper, I don't know,

I might have to write
these guys a ticket.

Like, are they going to
have an illegal fire?

I can't help it right.

Uh huh.

So I sort of, what are
you up and down as to

whether or not they're
going to be, you know,

yeah, a good park
user but, obviously

they're perfectly
in their legal right

to set up and shoot,
provided they're doing

it safely and there's
nothing wrong with that.

I just, the intensity of
it, it's the amount of

what's going on makes it,
you know, like, wow okay,

this is, lots going on.

Do it safely, clean
up after yourself, be

courteous of others.

Basic you know, things
that your mother should

have taught you, and
it goes a long way

to ensuring that you
still have places in

the future to use those
firearms and practice

with them or hunt.

So it's a, you do see
yahoo's once in a while

and I think that's sort
of the scary side of it.

But more and more, I'm
seeing cleanup groups

go out and clean up the
outdoors where others may

have left, they bring out
fridges and microwaves

and different things they
want to shoot and leave.

Apparently if you
shoot it enough, lika

a microwave or a fridge
enough times, it'll

eventually biodegrade.

That seems to be the
policy for some people

out there and it's
just like, really?!

Well that mattress,
if you shoot it with

enough shotgun BB's
it'll just disappear.

Okay, I see what you're
trying to do here, but

it's not working pal.

Yeah.

Nope.

No, no, it's so
disheartening to see that

the mess left behind, but
you know, a lot of people

are out there cleaning
up and the Backcountry

Hunters and Anglers
here, region two team.

I mean, they've done a
number of cleanups just

trying to, you know, try
to reduce the impact of

some of the areas that
have been a little bit

overwhelmed with the
litter left behind by

that type of user, but.

Right.

Like you said, you
know, be responsible,

be respectful, clean
up after yourself and

we can all continue
to enjoy these places

and take advantage
of the opportunity

to shoot because.

And I have a feeling the
people listening to this

podcast are all in that
group, otherwise, they

probably wouldn't find
too much of interest

in these podcasts.

It's all we can to
talk about, right?

Yeah.

Preaching to the
converted right?

Exactly.

Yeah, totally.

Okay that's cool.

Okay, let's go to the
other things about 22

that I was interested in.

So the part that
was, I thought it was

interesting comment was
about like replicating

the experience and it
may be best to have,

you know, say going with
a high powered rifle

because you have to
relearn things from a 22.

They used to teach
the police back in

the day to use 22
revolvers before moving

on to the 38 special
and the 357 right.

And they figured we'll
go over the principles

of marksmanship and
we'll get them keyed

right in but they found
that when they upped

it, and then you had the
noise to contend with

and the recoil, they had
to retrain them again.

And it was not a cost
savings that they

figured it would be.

And so consequently,
there is a school of

thought that says if
you're using it as

a platform to train
yourself to the next

level, maybe just
start at that level and

start getting good at
that from the get go.

So with the 22's, if
you're telling someone

to go get one, I
mean, it always comes

down to, well, what
do you want to do?

And the person says, I
don't know, I want it

to do everything right.

The Ruger 10-22,
probably one of the most

popular 22's out there.

Is a semi-automatic 22,
comes with a 10 round

magazine and people can
accessorize it to their

heart's content and they
can make it look old

and wooden and tactical
and Gucci and whatever

they want with that.

So that's a popular one.

Or you can go and
it doesn't cost much

money for them either.

Yeah I know.

I call it the
bad habit rifle.

Right.

Oh the next round
will get it, next

round will get it.

Yeah totally.

It's like, no, no, no.

You know, when I started
shooting, so my first gun

was a little single shot
22 Steven's favorite.

I think it was from
around the turn

of the century,
falling block design.

And it had a custom
stock made for it,

so it fit my little
five-year-old frame.

I started shooting I
was four, five, got my

first rifle and it had
a Cooey barrel that was

cut down and changed
and so that there

wasn't as much weight
on the front end of it.

And it was one round
at a time and you have

to cock the hammer all
the way back and then

you pull the trigger.

I mean, typically the
hammer cock back when

you put the lever down,
but that was disengaged

for the youngster, right?

Yeah.

And all I wanted was a
semi-auto and I was told

no semi-auto until you
can make your rounds

count with this one,
because all you end up

doing is counting on
that next round right?

So when you say the
bad habit maker, yeah,

I can see it from
that perspective.

Definitely.

Yeah.

So what my dad taught
me is he bought my

brother and I, a Bruno
22 full stock, fairly

heavy, robust 22.

And what his, what he
says it, look, like I

want you guys to, you
know, for one, have a

bolt action rifle, so
that you're used to

cycling the shells from
a shooting position.

Yep.

I want this to be a
full stock, full length

firearm so that you
get used to handling

a full length firearm
that you've kind of

replicate the same
shooting positions as

you go and so that was,
that was his theory.

And that's one that
I've carried through to

some of my training is
kind of follow through

with all of the, whether
you're practicing your

seated position or
standing position or

supported positions
with that firearm.

And you build some
confidence in those

physical positions and
then you eventually

once you've got the
confidence, you need

shooting groups and
then transitioning.

But man, even when
you go from a 22 like

soon as you said,
like 22's are fun,

they're easy to shoot.

Like once you pull
the trigger on a

308 or a 243 man, it
is like stunningly,

it's shocking.

It's not comfortable.

You know, it's
not, yeah for your

first time, yeah.

Because you don't know
what to expect right.

And a part of that
process is, so if we've

talked about the shotgun,
what you start learning

with that shotgun is the
fact that you can shoot

light loads, you can
shoot heavy loads, right?

You can, the lighter
loads will have

less recoil and he
start learning how

to manage recoil.

And the recoil management
is a big part of

ensuring that you
don't flinch, right?

You want to be able to
maintain sight picture

throughout your shot.

The easiest way to
maintain that recoil

management with your,
let's say your shotgun,

is you've got your four
point of contact, right?

You got your front hand
on the forestock, you

got your shooting hand
on the pistol grip, and

you've got your cheek
on the stock and you

got the stock firmly
into your shoulder.

And all of those are
pressing into the

firearm and it's one
of these things where

space equals pain.

If, when you first start
out, you're like, man I

don't want to get hurt
by this thing, I'm going

to hold it away from my
shoulder a little bit.

Or I'm not really
going to touch my cheek

down onto the comb
of the stock here.

Nah, nah, you got
to actually get that

cheek on there and
rest it down firmly.

You have to put a little
backwards pressure into

your shoulder and when
you reduce that space,

you reduce the pain
and it's kind of like

getting into a boxing
ring with Mike Tyson.

You give him a couple
inches to smack you,

man, you're going to
hurt, but you glue his

glove to your face,
you're going to get

dizzy, but he's not
going to be doing them.

It's like, if you
give him a little bit

of distance, right?

Yeah.

So you say that, that
little gap creates a

bit of room for the
firearm to travel and

essentially punch you.

Right.

In the shoulder right?

So the more you seal up
the rifle to your body,

whether it's through
your cheek, your arm,

through your hands,
you're distributing

that shock through
your body more evenly.

And softening that energy
exchange into your body.

Yeah.

Right and the second
thing is, how do you

manage that recoil?

Now, I remember, so when
I was a kid and I started

shooting some competitive
rifle and I was in the

army cadet program and
they had Lee Enfields,

full-size rifles that
were chambered in 22.

They sleeved them, made
them 22 compatible, so

similar to what your
father is doing right.

And then went on to
full bore after that.

But when you watch
these little guys and

gals shoot full bore,
and you think oh man,

how are they going to
handle that recoil?

And theypull a shot and
then they climb back

up the mat again and
they get in position.

They take the shot and
then they crawl back

up the mat because it's
pushing them back, and

they shoot these things
all day long because

of how that recoil is
affecting their body.

Whereas if you get a
full size adult behind

it, that just plunks
down and then the absorb

all of that recoil,
it's going to be a

less enjoyable event.

So learning to kind
of roll back with

it, to let it shove
you and not fight it.

Like I've seen people
when they're learning

to shoot, somebody else
gets behind and they

hold their shoulder
from the other side.

Oh, I'm going to
help him out right.

Where the hold the
shoulder from the

back sorry, from,
let's say they're in

a standing position.

You guys can't see it,
who are listening, but

Dylan and I we've got
video going and we can.

Yep.

Hands where.

We're high fiving
through the video and.

That's right.

No, no, absolutely.

I've heard that, like,
you know, a more like,

well, you're six foot
lots and a fairly solid

dude and if you were
to shoot a high power,

high calibre rifle
with lots of recoil.

Because your body, unless
you've trained your

body, your body will
actually instantly absorb

that weight without
requiring, whereas

someone who is much more
slight, will actually

like essentially like,
we'll absorb that and

kind of fall backwards.

But the actual amount
of energy transferring

into their bodies
less than maybe a

heavier set person
or a bigger person.

So I've heard that and
I've seen that too.

I mean like Mickey is
five foot nothing and a

hundred, or a buck-oh-one
or something like tha

and she's enjoy shooting
way more than I do.

And so it's kinda
interesting to see

how she's able to
manage recoil, so.

Right.

Well.

So with that in mind,
like recoil being,

probably the thing that
people most are concerned

about when thinking
about a centerfire rifle,

I think the majority
of people that I work

with, that will, that
they can, they need a

deer gun that they might
be able to eventually

go shoot a moose or an
elk with at some point.

Right.

And but the primary thing
is that, Hey they're

learning still, they
need a deer gun, where

would you, what are
some things you would

consider when evaluating
what calibre to consider

for that new hunter?

Who's trying to buy
one firearm, at least

for the next three or
four years while they

enter the hunting world.

So we'll talk about
it and then I'll give

you the shortcut.

Essentially, you
talked about recoil, so

recoil, is this going
to be energy, right?

The energy coming back.

For every action,
there's an equal and

opposite reaction.

You want to have enough
energy in that projectile

coming out in order to
ethically and humanely

harvest an animal.

And they measure that
energy by the mass of

the projectile going
out, is essentially an

equation, it's one half
mass times the velocity

squared, and that that'll
give you the energy.

So what that tells
you is the more mass

a projectile has, the
more energy it's going

to transfer in both
directions, right?

So that's going to be
more recoil and more

energy transfer onto
the animal that you're

wishing to harvest.

But it's half mass
times velocity squared.

So if we take a look at
the other side, the more

velocity we have, man,
we can have less mass

projectile, but have a
higher velocity and still

achieve the same or more
energy on the target.

So there's a.

Can I just put that
into, I'm going to

say that back to you.

Yeah yeah.

In the language that
I think I understand.

Okay.

So you have the
weight of the bullet.

In grains.

You have the speed.

Yeah, in grains, we
call it ingrain and

then we have the
speed the bullet goes.

Yeah.

And the more, the
heavier and the faster

the bullet goes, the
more energy it will

impact an animal with.

That's right.

And.

And.

Go on, I interrupted.

Go on.

No that was it, so if you
have a, you can have a,

and then you can start
to play with the factors.

You can have a lighter
bullet going faster.

Right.

That'll make the same
amount of energy or

you can have a heavier
bullet going slower.

Right.

Which will create enough
energy or the similar

amount of energy so.

Right.

So when we look at
it, and the only

reason I butt in, I
said grains, right?

Because really, I
mean, we're measuring

the energy in joules
or foot pounds.

It's because when
people go to buy their

ammunition for their
firearm, they might

just think, Oh I need
rounds for this calibre.

But that can come in
different weight grain

projectiles that come
out of there too.

So you can have ones
that perhaps have a

bit more recoil or
a bit more energy on

the animal as well.

So, I mean, when we
talk about grains, we

measure powder in the
same way, and I know some

people get confused and
they're like, hold on,

are you counting those
individual grains and

no that's not how it is.

Grains is a unit
of measurement.

I mean, we've got,
Jewlers will use Troy

weight right and I
think grains kind of

came in there through
the English system.

Druggist's use apothecary
weight, avoirdupois

system was ounces
and pounds and stuff.

And I think between
Avoirdupois and Troy,

grains are probably
measured about the same,

if I recall correctly.

But it's just a unit of
measurement for weight.

So if you say I've
got a 175 grain bullet

right, you going to
know that they're

just talking about how
much I think weighs.

Yep.

And.

175 grain bullet
weighs more than

120 grain bullet.

Easy, yeah.

And that's it right?

You don't have
to go much.

That's it.

Don't have to go
much further than

that one, but.

Weighs about
announce, maybe.

Yeah.

But now we know, I can
have that one rifle and

I might be able to get
different ammunition for

it for maybe something
that I wanted penetrate

a little bit deeper
and that penetration is

going to come through
projectile shape, right.

And that projectile
shape affects a

ballistic coefficient.

And that's a fancy way of
saying just how it cuts

through the air, right?

The higher, the ballistic
coefficient, the better

it cuts through the air.

But as well, it would
be like, let's say you

have a needle, a needle
can go through something

pretty darn good, but
it's not going to be

transferring the energy
the same way that a

hammer would, right.

A hammer is going to
probably not penetrate

through something
that well, but it's

going to transfer a
lot of that energy.

So these are all kind
of things that people

can kind of keep in
the back of their mind.

And I told you, there's
going to be a shortcut

at the end of this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love it.

When I asked you to
talk about this topic,

you're like I can kind
of get in the weeds

a little bit when I
get into this stuff.

I'm enjoying this so.

I gave an example.

Yeah.

I gave an example to you
because I said there is,

CBC asked me to opine on
something one time and

I turned them down and
instead I referred them

to another individual and
afterwards I listened to

that individual's answer.

And although that answer,
in my opinion, was

technically wrong, it
was the correct answer

for CBC, cause it was
so clear, so concise

and to the point.

And really on the
technical side, who

cares what he got
across was right.

So yes, I can get
into the weeds a bit.

But this is good.

So let's, I think it's
an important thing, I

mean, these are things
that as people can

pick up on some of this
stuff and they can dig

deeper into this and.

As they wish, yeah.

And so it's important to
recognize that bullets

have different shapes.

Some are, fly through
the air better.

Sure.

Than others and
others do a better

job of essentially
killing an animal.

Like they're designed
to hit an animal and

they're, we call it
opening up or getting

like, mushrooming out.

And then eventually well,
bullets are actually

designed to try and
like, when they hit the

animal, they're kind
of designed to stop.

They're ideally, they're
going to hit the animal,

drive, penetrate the
flesh through the heart

and lungs and then
ultimately stop there.

They want to dissipate
all of their energy

in the animal to
maximize the purpose

of that bullet, which
is to kill the animal.

Other bullets are
designed to fly really

stable and flat for
a long distance and

be extremely accurate
at distance, but

they may be less
effective at that job

of potentially hitting
an animal and opening

up and killing it.

So there's always a bit
of a balance between,

what that bullet's
designed to do and its

performance, whether
it's for target shooting

or the performance, if
it's designed to be a

load that is intended
to shoot into, to open

up and kill an animal.

So that's sort of
where we dive into that

bullet world and get
to know what different

bullet manufacturers
and how they perform

it at different.

And they all perform at
different speeds too,

it's fascinating stuff.

You can go down and
go deep into it right?

You know, but.

What's the guys name?

Bryan Litz or
lilts, litz?

He's got a few
books out there.

I mean, if you really
want to geek out on that

kind of stuff, there's a
guy to go check out his.

But and that this is
exactly what you say

here, which is why we
have laws that say,

if you're going to be
using certain types of

ammunition for harvesting
animals, it has to be

expanding ammunition.

It's gotta be designed
to be able to open up

and transfer that energy.

And there are, I guess,
different schools of

thought within hunters,
some who say, man I

wanted to the projectile
to go in and stop in the

middle of that animal and
just completely make your

primary wound channel and
your secondary cavity.

And it just, I want
a lot of damage

go right through.

Some say, I don't want
it to stop till it

gets to the skin on
the other side, right?

Like basically as much
penetration without

over penetrating.

And then I've heard
some say, no, I want

through and through,
I want it to go in and

do some damage and then
come out the other side

cause it gives a better
blood trail to track.

Ehh, you know, once he
started getting there,

here, you're using
your expanding tip

projectiles and you're
probably cranking out a

little too much power.

And when we start
looking at this power

thing, when people
start saying, I want one

gun, quite often, they
say bigger is better.

And bigger is not
necessarily better

because the worst thing
that you can do as

a new firearms owner
is ingrain a flinch,

flinching yourself,
right from the get go.

That's hard to
overcome a flinch.

Are you still
there Dylan?

All right, so right about
now I realize that Dylan

is having some technical
difficulties on his end

and this voiceover, well,
this voiceover is only

here to serve as a segue
between the first half

and the second half.

I don't know where
I was, because we've

been down for a little
bit, the joys of doing

online podcasting, this
is our second time.

This is a second time
Dylan that you and first

time, your battery, you
forgot to plug in your

computer, but this time
it wasn't your fault.

How do you remember
these things?

God.

Okay, great.

I dunno.

Everything, it's
like a steel trap.

Yeah.

You're pulling out
these quotes are

these like, yeah.

I love it.

I love it.

But yeah, no, I
definitely, yeah.

I just had a malfunction
of the whole system

here, but I appreciate
your patience and

we'll get back to it.

So we were kind of
talking about like, you

know, bullet coefficient
and talking about

bullet, the variation.

And I think this is a
cool thing you're talking

about was like, this is
the variation between,

you know, even if you go
with one calibre rifle,

you still have a lot of
options as to whether

you want to shoot heavy
bullets out of it, or a

lighter bullets or and
the bullet configuration,

how they're designed
and shape has a

different, so.

You know, it's a kind
of a cool conversation

because as much as a
variation in the calibre,

which is where I want
to kind of lead us here,

there's also within any
calibre there's variation

in terms of the weight,
the design of the bullet,

what it's designed to do.

And then you even
mentioned about grains.

How many grains of
gunpowder that you put

behind the bullet to
shoot it, which makes

it perform differently.

So it really is a
complicated discussion

as you get down and
start talking about

bullet design and
the configuration of

the actual cartridge.

Right.

So on that note, what
do you think is the most

versatile cartridge, like
most versatile calibre.

So total wormholes.

So I'm going to
throw out okay.

Because if someone's
getting into it and

they want to use it
for hunting, I mean

in British Columbia
anyways, we don't have

any restrictions on our
big game hunting until

you get to bison, right.

So bison's what?

175 grain, 2000 foot
pound, or more energy

at a 100 meters.

So aside from that,
you're kind of free to

use whatever you want
when you're hunting

anything but bison.

So you're going to
want to, I mean, there

are some centerfire
cartridges that just

don't have much oomph
behind them that

it just wouldn't
be ethical to use.

But if you're starting
out and you're getting

into it, 243 Winchester,
a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08,

308 Winchester, 270
Winchester, 30-06,

I mean, they're
all great choices.

And 30-06 was always
the old standby.

Everyone says, ah just
get a 30-06, you can

load up, you can load
down, go with that.

6.5 Creedmoor has been
gaining a heck of a lot

more popularity lately.

It's got its detractors,
it's got the people

who just swear by it,
but it's going out of

there at a faster rate.

And the big thing it has
going for it is, very

low recoil and still
great muzzle energy.

Great ballistic
coefficient, cuts

through the air and
it'll take over most

of the game that you
want within British

Columbia, most game
within North America.

I pulled some good size
black bears with a 6.5

Creedmoor just this year.

It comes down to your
familiarity with the

firearm and your ability
to put a round where

it matters, because if
you're shooting something

in the tail or the foot,
I mean, maybe a needle,

a canon behind you,
but if you take your

time and you close that
distance, your practice.

Everything that you're
learning through,

EatWild and everything
you're learning through

Silvercore and put that
round where it matters,

then you don't really
need a huge honking

calibre to do the job.

And in fact, I did pod,
sorry, I'll let you go.

I did a podcast with
the fellow, you and

I both know with
Marshall Lowen and he

was, he recounted us.

Oh yeah.

Yeah and he recounted
a story of a indigenous

woman who would use a
22 for moose hunting.

And he says,
isn't that hard?

He says, she says, the
hard part is getting

the animal home, right?

So shot placement
really is where it's at.

I heard an interesting
discussion and it was

about like the sort
of, this guy went from

hunting, being a rifle
hunter to a bow hunter,

and then you really
get focused on shot

placement with the bow.

And with a bow, like you
really are just trying to

poke a hole in the lung
with a blade essentially.

And then you hope that
that one hole in the

lung causes bleeding
in the lungs and dies.

And the point I thought
it was interesting, was

the individuals that,
you know, it was so it's

just like, it just puts
the whole discussion

around, you know, is
243 enough calibre to

take down a deer or a
moose or it's just like,

it just like there's.

243 causes catastrophic
damage to lungs.

Absolutely.

Beyond the, put any
potential of any bow

hunter out there.

And there's bow hunters,
shooting moose and

bison, anything else.

So like tha, like
going to your point

about shot placement.

Any any of those high
powered centerfire

rifles will cause enough
damage to the lungs.

If you cause damage.

If you put a hole in
the lungs, those animals

will die, they will die
quickly and efficiently

and ethically.

So really a lot of it
is about shot placement.

Really what I think
where people start to

think about, you know,
increasing the distance

they can shoot and carry
energy out to longer

distances, it becomes
a bit of a discussion.

And whereas some of
the lighter rifles

lose energy cause
they're, don't have

as much gunpowder
behind the bullet

on a smaller rifle.

Like I have a 300
Winchester Magnum and

it's a gigantic cartridge
and it makes a huge bang.

Sure it does.

Yeah.

Boots like a mule.

Yeah, I don't like it.

But it, you know, I have
every confidence that

when I'm shooting an
elk at 250 to 300 yards,

which is my outside
range of comfort on an

animal of that size,
that it's got plenty,

it still has 2000 foot
pounds of energy to cause

devastation to the lungs.

And if I miss the lungs
and hit in the shoulder,

it's gonna break enough
shoulder and eventually

work its way into the
lungs that I'm going to

is going to be a dead
elk, 100%, for sure.

Whereas maybe with the
243 at 300 yards, if

you hit the shoulder,
it may not penetrate

through the shoulder
and into the lungs.

And I think that's kind
of where the discussion

starts to go a little
bit sideways or gets a

little bit more relevant,
but if your shot

placement is perfect,
it's all irrelevant.

It's all like, yeah the
22 will do enough damage

to the lungs, as long
as you get it between

the ribs you know?

So Colonel Townsend
Whelen, and he was a guy

for many, many years,
everyone recorded him and

he says a thousand foot
pounds of energy that's

what you need, right so.

Yeah.

Like full stop.

And everyone says,
Oh, we need a

thousand foot pounds.

So if it's at X distance,
I want have a thousand

foot pounds at that
distance in order to

have ethical and humane.

The way that
modern bullets are

constructed in modern
ammo's being made.

And some people have
different thoughts on it,

but that's always been
the general knowledge.

And when you look at
how you're going to

be putting an animal
down it's going to die

through, realistically,
one of two ways.

One way you've got a
CNS shot, a central

nervous system shot, so
that's going to be brain

or spinal cord, right?

Second way is going
to be that you

indeuce hypovolemic
shock, essentially.

You induce hypovolemic
shock through massive

cardiopulmonary
decompression, and that's

going to be interruption
of its ability to breathe

or circulate oxygen
through its body, through

heart or through lungs.

And the fastest way to
fix that is to have a

bleed out quickly, right?

So you can put a
whole bunch of rounds

into something.

The more rounds, the
faster you're going

to introduce that
shock, but you're also

wasting a whole ton
of meat too, right?

So those are some of
the considerations.

When it comes to rifles,
because just a segue back

to your point, just tell
him what to get a Tikka

T3X, very popular, the
new Sauer 100, popular.

Mauser M18's, popular
and affordable, right?

So those are a few
things that the listeners

might want to look at.

They're all Mauser
action, bolt

action rifles.

That's simple.

Simple.

So it's bolt that
bolt action for sure.

The, well let's not,
we're not gonna let

you off the hook that
simple, you listed like

seven different calibres.

If you had to buy
one calibre for your

son, who's going
to turn, say he's

turning 16 years old.

I've got him at 6.5
Creedmoor, that's

all my son shoots.

And my son shoots that
because that's what

my wife shoots and I
wish you'd sat because

International Barrels
in Abbotsford spun up a

barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor
for me just to test out.

And it keeps us all on
the same ammo platform

when we're out there,
rather than everybody

using different ammo.

6.5 Creedmoor was
something that I was

interested in from an
accuracy standpoint.

Did some reading about
it, wanted to see how

the thing performed
out in the field and

so far, I've been
impressed with it.

I'm using the Hornady
ELDX bullets in them,

and it's putting
the animals down

quickly and humanely.

And, but that's just
because I happened

to get it from
International Barrels.

They made this deadly
accurate barrel and I

ended up just going with
that for my wife and a

son cause low recoil.

Yeah.

And that's so I think
that's, to me, that's

the point I want to
key on is that the

comfort of shooting?

So I'm a big advocate
of the 243, the 6.5 or

the 7-08, because all
three of those guns

have significantly less
recoil than a 30-06 or

a 270, both of which
are awesome calibres.

But the three that
I just listed, they

have probably 30%
to 40% less recoil,

so they're just more
comfortable to shoot.

And I think, I mean,
this is something that I

suffered from as a kid.

I, you know, the first
guy in that my dad

bought me about a 6.5
pound, 30-06 when I was

13 or 14 years old and
handed to me with a

couple of blocks as 180
grain Federal bullets.

And I went and shot it
and just beat the shit

out of myself and I
maintain that same fear

of recoil and well, and I
still have a flinch that

I work on at all time.

And I have improved my
shooting over the years,

but the thing that
improved my shooting

the most is that when
I bought a 7mm-08 and

I took it to the range
and I was like, wow,

this feels to me like
I'm shooting at 22.

It's just, I'm not afraid
of it, I'm comfortable.

I just started building
on like, I make a good

shot and I make another
good shot and I make

another good shot,
I got a good group.

And that confidence just
like, helped me build up

my confidence, cause I
could never comfortably

shoot the 30-06, I never
enjoyed shooting it.

I ended up winning a
300 when I was, you

know, somewhere in my
mid twenties at a BC

Wildlife Federation
conference so now I've

got this beautiful
Tikka 300, which is a

great elk, moose gun.

And I had it really
got into elk hunting

then so it was, you
know, effective for

hunting elk, but I
hated shooting it and

I still do actually.

Like, I'm glad like,
one shot a year,

great, go to the range.

Two inches high at
a 100 yards, done,

back in the case,
let's go elk hunting.

But I'll sit there and
I'll actually shoot with

my 7-08 and I will build
my confidence and comfort

at shooting at 300 yards.

And just trying to, I
just enjoy shooting.

And that's the first
time that I didn't enjoy

shooting until I was
basically in my thirties,

like which is something
to be said for that.

So yeah, I liked the
call and the 6.5.

And that's not
because I'm married

to the cartridge.

It's just happened to be
something I was testing

out and it works well.

But all the cartridges
you mentioned there,

recoil is going to be
one of the things that

puts people off the most.

The fit of the firearm,
you want to make

sure it fits to you.

Recoil can be mitigated
through proper

technique, it can
be mitigated through

having a heavier firearm
because that's going

to change felt recoil.

The energy recoil is
going to be the same,

but the length of time
it takes, or the recoiled

impact on you is going
to be dissipated over

a longer time period,
so it's going to feel

more like a shove
than a sharp push.

And then a good recoil
pad on there, or even a

muzzle break if you don't
mind the loud concussive.

Blowing your
buddies eardrums.

Exactly.

So that can all help.

That can all help.

Yeah.

And.

Totally.

The real shortcut
to all of that, and

we're talking about
different, like kind of

calibres and guns and
models on the rest and

you're talking about
the Vancouver urbanite

living in an apartment,
go to Reliable Gun and

Tackle on Fraser street,
and they have a wide

selection and they'll
take you down and they'll

take you through it.

And they just get those
same questions asked

day in, day out and
they're going to find

something that works
with your budget and

that'll work for you,
or your local gun store.

I mean, I just
say Reliable cause

you're talking about
Vancouver there.

That would be, that
would be the shortcut,

I'd take this knowledge
and go on and say, I

heard Dylan and Travis
talkin about this.

Can we, I gotta say,
I got a 7-08 or a 6.5,

but I think the other
one that, that falls

into that same category
that's worth mentioning

it, is the 308.

And I think the 308 is
kind of the, both the

6.5 Creedmoor and the
7-08 are all built on the

same cartridge as a 308.

I think it's the
same cartridge?

The same with
the 6.5 yeah.

Right.

It just it's different
sized bullet that

they're shooting out of
the same cartridge, but

they're all relative.

They're short action
rifle they're, so

that means they're
not, they're a shorter

full, like the bullet
length of the cartridge

length is short.

Which is, there's
some advantage of

that because the gun
has overall shorter.

In some cases you save an
inch versus the 7-08 is

a whole inch longer, the
bullet or the cartridge

is an inch longer.

So you just get that much
more metal and around

the chamber and stuff.

So some merit to that,
but the 308 is kind

of got that balance
of recoil, but it

still will shoot a
heavier bullet, if you.

It'll take everything.

Going bison hunting.

It'll take everything.

And yeah most, it's
super, the bullet, that's

other thing to think
about the affordability

of the bullets.

Like 308 ammo was by
far the cheapest ammo,

so you could shoot
lots of it if you're

going to shoot lots.

It's affordability and
availability, especially

if you're going to be
out in Timbuktu with

a firearm, you want
to have something

that you can find ammo
for if you need it.

And that was why I
think 6.5 took a while

for people to kind
of adopt because up

until recently, it
wasn't as ubiquitous.

Yeah, totally.

Totally.

So the only, and then
just thinking about

like, you know, the only
downside of going with

like a 308 or sorry,
a 30-06 or a 270 you

know, ultimately is
how you manage recoil.

Like you said,
there's options for

managing recoil.

Those rifles kind of
do everything if you

want them, particularly
the, yeah, if you're a

long range shooter, the
270 is a great option.

If you want to be a moose
hunter, an elk hunter

and a deer hunter to the
30-06 is about as good

as it gets, but again,
you're managing recoil.

So I think we kinda, I
think we kinda covered

that off a little bit.

I think so.

I think for more or less,
if they want to delve

in more, I mean, they
can always email us.

Phone us up.

Sure email us.

And I like your
suggestion.

It's just go see the
guys or the folks I

should say down at
Reliable there they,

what I like about
Reliable is that they're

very accessible shop.

Like they could see a
new hunter walking to

the door and they make
you feel welcome and make

you feel like it's not a,
that, cause it's a fairly

intimidating experience
walking into a gun store.

And they do a good job
of yeah, making everybody

feel comfortable.

Yeah.

On that note, I was going
to ask you, this is one

of the questions I had
and as we were gonna

try and wrap up here I
think, but I'm curious

what you think the value
is in the market of say

like a new hunter going,
Hey, should I buy a used

rifle or a new rifle?

Do you have any thoughts
on which direction to go?

Yeah, get new.

Get a new rifle, unless
you're getting it from

a reputable source.

It will stand behind it
afterwards because a lot

of, when you're getting
brand new into this,

you want to know that
your equipment works.

And if you're buying
something used off of

uncle Bob, or if they
find a advertisement in

a buy and sell somewhere
and you pick the thing

up, there's a whole
bunch of questions

that you're gonna have.

Like, did the person mess
with it ahead of time?

I mean, you never know
how there's a lot of

backyard gunsmiths and
people who get it a

dremmel tool and they
figure that, hey, I

can do whatever I want
and now I'm a gunsmith,

I got a dremmel.

If you know what you're
doing, by all means

get used to it right.

If you're into it for
a while and you've been

around firearms, you
know what you're looking

for, get a used firearm.

I mean, there's a
possibility to save

some good money and
get some great deals.

But if you're just
getting into it, the

price of some of these
new firearms that shoot

extremely well out of
the box it's just, to me,

it doesn't make sense to
delve in the used market

as your first firearm.

I totally agree.

Like there's not, I
mean, the one thing

that's great about,
if you're going to be

that person that buys
lots of firearms, it's

kind of like having
money in the bank.

Like firearms don't
typically go down in

value all that much.

The resale value
is pretty high on a

well cared for rifle.

So the flip side of
that is that if you're

thinking that you're
going to go, you want

to save a few hundred
bucks and you're going to

explore the use market.

A good quality firearm
has been well cared

for is going to be
basically the same

cost as a new one.

It's incredible that,
you know, that resale

value, often guns, the
manufacturers, it's

just not available.

Some of the calibres or
the manufacturer, the

type of type of rifle.

So I've got rifles in
my closet that are worth

more now than when I
bought them three or

four years ago, like it's
kinda unique that way.

So I don't think
there's a huge

benefit of going used.

And like you said,
there's the concern of

what was the history
of the rifle before so.

And even if everything's
fine on a firearm, but

you're not hitting the
target and then you're

sitting in the back of
your head thinking, is

it because the rifles
not working as it

should, did somebody
monkey with it, right.

At least you can
eliminate some of

those variables.

Well, and then the
last thing abouy used

firearms, I've got some
firearms I don't like,

cause I've never been
able to shoot them well.

Sure.

So there's something
fundamentally wrong

with me or something
fundamentally wrong

with the rifle and I
might consider selling

that rifle and passing
it on because I just

never been able to get
comfortable with it.

So most.

That's right.

The firearms that I like,
that I shoot well with.

You hold onto them.

Are still in my locker.

So like the ones that
are out there, I mean

the only way I see,
like there's benefit of

going with some, where
you get some benefit is

maybe in the optics part.

Like you might find it
like an old Remington

with a good Leupold
golden scope on it for

five or 600 bucks or
something like that.

And you may be getting
$300 with optics and

it's a three or $400
gun and the package is

probably better than you
might buy for the same

value in the new market.

There's maybe those
types of deals around

and maybe if you have an
uncle or a family member

that you know, is passing
on some guns and moving

them out, there may be
some options to look at.

But I think, the other
piece and the last

question, I'm gonna
ask you a Travis before

I let you go and.

Yeah, yeah.

Enjoy the rest of your
evening is, you know,

people come up against
the question of whether

they should buy a
stainless rifle or a

blued rifle when thinking
about their first rifle.

Do you have any initial
thoughts on where

the value is there?

Yeah, stainless.

That was easy.

Getting your first
rifle, I mean, you're

brand new to the game
of learning how to

clean it and learning
how to care for it.

Blued firearms are
great and there's

nothing wrong with them.

Really, if you're
learning about how to

care for your firearm
and you're going to be

on the field for a few
days, save yourself

the hassle and just
get something that's

going to stain less.

It's not that it's not
going to rust, right?

It's, can still very
well rust and the parts

inside it can rust, and
if you don't like the

color of red color of the
silver firearm paint it.

Or they, you can
actually, there is

chemical processing, you
can blacken stainless

firearm, you can buy
them like that too.

But the old school
of thought was that's

stainless didn't
shoot as well as

a, let's say blued
carbon steel firearm.

The advancements in
metallurgy and the way

it's put together, you
know, most of the high

end shooters are shooting
stainless barrels.

So I would be inclined
as a brand new shooter

to go that route.

And then you can play
around from there.

I don't know, what
would you say?

Oh, I mean, I grew
up with stainless

guns, cause that was
when my first kind

I had and I did buy
a like a beautiful

wood stock Stier
with a blued barrel.

Oh yeah.

That was that 7-08
that I came across

somewhere along.

Nice.

The way.

And, beautiful gun, I
love shooting it, but

like I like the thought
of taking it on a

sheep hunt or something
just like, I was like,

no, I can't do that.

I'll just, just
destroy it.

And that's it, like, you
nailed another point in

there because really who
cares if it's rusted?

I mean, will it still
shoot as long as it's

not rusty in the bore?

It'll so shoot,
but it's the worry.

It's like jewelry man.

That's it, you got it.

Right.

So if you're going out
and breaking the bank

to buy some brand new
first firearm you've

ever had and you just
got the most expensive

pretty thing out there,
are you really going to

want to use it, right?

Well, I've got a hunting
partner, Jenny P, who

is often on the podcast.

She has a nice Micro
Midas Browning a

firearm, and this
is a real piss off.

If you're a female or if
you're a short statured

hunter with a short
pole, like the pole, you

have very few options
for gun manufacturers

that make firearms in
a smaller rifles for

'em in stainless steel.

In fact, there's
almost no options.

The majority of the
manufacturers make

youth model rifles, but
I think in their mind,

they're like, well,
they're, if you're a

youth you're going to
grow out of this gun, so

you don't really need a
stainless long-term gun.

But you know, I've been
down this path a number

of times with female
friends of mine who

are shorter stature,
and we're looking for a

smaller gun and there's
very few firearms on

the market that are both
stainless steel, give you

an array of calibres and
come in more micro sizes.

And the one that actually
helped my cousin, Jess,

and then now just Mickey
buy, is a Remington

Model Seve and it's a
short stock and a short

barrel and it does come
in a stainless barrel,

beautiful little gun and.

But there's very
few options that are

available to smaller
statutes shooters.

So something that the
industry could start

cluing into that,
you know, women and

little people want to
hunt in the mountains

too, and want to
have the versatility

of a stainless gun.

Totally.

Or just make it modular.

So you can just, rather
than having to take

it to a gunsmith and
chop it down, get one

that you can just take
spacers out, right?

You can sell to.

Of course.

A whole wide.

From a marketing
standpoint, I don't know.

But you're right.

You're right.

Not a lot of options.

And so anyway, I think
it was talking about

Jenny P, who I, you
know, we've done huge

adventure hunts together.

And this poor, like
Browning micro midas

that she has is, which
is a Woodstock and a

blued barrel, like it's
just been beat to shit.

Like we took, last year
we took 150 kilometers

of whitewater rafting,
you know, knocking on

the bottom of a boat.

It was, we went on
a bear, saltwater

fishing bear hunt.

So her rifle is like
knocking around on the

front of my boat in
saltwater conditions, you

know.

So let me ask you
this, is it rusty?

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it'srusted
up, but the barrel

is probably fine.

Okay.

So yeah, you know, it's
one of these things

that you really got to
stay on top of it if

you're going to be in
those conditions for

a long period of time.

There's nothing
wrong with blued,

there really isn't.

But for a first gun,
if you had the money to

spend and your looking
for a little bit easier

maintenance and the
rest of yourself, I'd

lean towards stainless.

Yeah, I think stainless
is, I mean, if you can

afford it is probably
30% more I think, like

if you go across the
board to invest in

the 20 or 30% more.

But I think you'll get
that back right away

when you, the first time
you get out there, you

know, you come back to
your tent, it's soaking

wet and you're gone
soaking wet, and you

can't do anything to
really dry it out cause

you're sleeping in a
pup tent for the night

and it rains for four
more days after that.

Like it's a lot, it's
really nice having

that stainless in that
type of conditions.

Or they could listen
to the tips and tricks

on the EatWild podcast
about how to care for

your firearm, when
out in the field.

Well, that's great.

We shouldn't
mention that.

So the last time that
we talked, we hung

out, we talked about,
we had gun care in the

field and storage and
that was a lot of fun.

And I said, that was
the one that probably

got the most feedback
from listeners.

Just like enjoyed just
getting that, those tips.

But this has been
really fun, hanging

out with you Travis.

I think, we should
do this more often

and hang out.

I think we've got
a bit of a plan.

I taught that I talked
to Mark Hall of the

Hunter Conservationist
podcast and I think it'd

be fun having a longer
conversation around like

hunter certification and
training for firearms

for new hunters and the
standards that we apply.

And what that looks
like when people get

out there in the field.

I think there's a great
conversation there.

So I'm hoping that we
can meet up in the next

couple of months and have
that conversation with

Mark and you up for that?

How fun would that be?

And I think between
the three of us, we

could probably have
an opinion or two on

the subject matter.

Perhaps.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, I think we've
all done a lot to, you

know, I think everybody
at the same, when it

comes to new hunters
and ensuring that people

have the support they
need and the mentorship.

I think that's something
that we're all talking

about and thinking about.

And, we know how hard
it is for new hunters to

get in and get involved.

So Travis, if people
want to find you, where

would they find you?

So if they're looking for
the Silvercore podcast,

you can download that
anywhere fine podcasts

are distributed, so
we're essentially on

all the platforms or
YouTube, or you can

go to Silvercore.ca
and I believe we've

got blog posts with
the full transcripts.

And if you have ADHD
like myself and you

just want to get right
to the point, you can

find it right there.

Oh, cool.

Let's take it to the
next level, that's

awesome and that.

Awesome.

Hey.

And then of
course Travis.

Of course, you're going
to have a copy of this

transcript as well.

If this is a share
cast, I'll give you a

copy and there you go.

Good to go.

There you go.

I learned something.

Yeah, for sure.

Awesome, well I really
enjoyed having you

on here, Travis.

Hey, so everybody else
out there, thanks so

much for hanging out
with Travis and I, you

know, for sure we're
still living COVID life,

I just want to say like
we're all on lockdown

here, no doubt you know,
some people that are

really challenged right
now with maintaining

social connection.

So I just say, remind you
to get out there, call up

those friends of yours,
have a conversation,

reach out to them because
I know that people

are suffering now.

Just something I've been
thinking about lots right

now is as these days
are getting shorter.

Yeah, stay connected
with those people you

care about and reach out.

And I'll be doing more
podcasts coming up and

if you're looking for a
gift for this Christmas,

I'm rolling out my
EatWild webinars series,

is a great idea for
the hunter in your life

to give them a gift of
learning and hanging out

with Dylan and friends
on the webinar series.

I can vote for that one
because I sat in on one

of your webinars and
that was a fun time.

That was a good
thing, check it out.

Oh, yeah, there are
tons of fun, thanks

for that Travis.

I enjoy doing them and
usually get an audience

of, you know, 20, 25
people and a few experts

and we just got a
presentation to follow

and, yeah do our best to
equip people on a topic

that I think is important
to be a better hunter.

So yeah, they've
been fun.

Dylan, it was
a great idea.

Love doing these things.

I look forward to
the next one we do.

Yeah, right on, that
was a lot of fun.