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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Today's audio contains two sections. One, as I was reading the intro to what the steps are about, the steps come from AA, but we can also use them in a more broad sense for my own stuff. Right? And so I read through the intro and process the things that I learned from the intro and how I'm applying that to me. And then also the second audio.
Speaker 3:So I'll have a slight pause between them. But then the second audio is actually the video that I sent to Nathan about what I had learned so far in this book. And what's funny is that I understand now in doing that, I actually did a classic newcomer thing of skipping a whole bunch of steps and going straight to let me fix everything. So I know that in hindsight, that that's how quick that rush to fix things or the urgency to fix things happens and how slippery that is, even when what we're doing is good and right. There's still things in between to slow down that process and to tend to ourselves rather than only trying to care for the people around us.
Speaker 3:That's how slippery it is. That's how fast it happens. So that's a little humor for some people who understand recovery already, but it still feels important to share here as part of my process. And so I will let you listen in on that as well.
Speaker 1:So I started at the beginning of the chapter and read just through step one. So I didn't read any other steps yet, but I did also read the intro just to sort of catch up a bit and understand the full context. What I loved is how the steps are the answers to the questions, which was helpful to understand, which answered earlier questions, and how they are process focused. Love this so much, and no wonder we can keep circling back to them. So I just thought that was really profound, and I appreciated that and agree with being able to fill the empty place within us where loneliness and pain reside.
Speaker 1:That would be the deprivation hole of hell and coming alive in a way we never experienced before. That was amazing. It was also fun to see all the 12 steps just lined out like that. I mean, like, listed. I hadn't, like, found that before.
Speaker 1:So I know what I'm getting into. There's your informed consent. Enter into the house. I'm kidding. But it was helpful.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I have the context now. And step one, we cannot change the fact that we have been devastated. Rude. Just rude.
Speaker 1:Nor can we change the behavior, the attitude of those around us. That would be a source of mind distress. We are powerless over alcohol as long as we persist in the delusion that we can control or cure alcoholism, its symptoms or its effects. Continue to fight a battle that we cannot win. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:Those were literally some of my first words the last time I saw them in person is I can't win this. Right? So here I am ready to learn about step one because I'm literally in that place. I can't win. There's no way I'm going to win this.
Speaker 1:All of our energy is wasted on a hopeless endeavor until there is nothing left over for attending to our own needs. Our lives have become unmanageable. Highly uncomfortable. Okay. Here's what I share about this piece.
Speaker 1:This whole paragraph about life is unmanageable whenever we lose perspective about what is and is not our responsibility. I loved that unmanageable got explicitly defined. I love it in a nerdy way. I love it in a, oh, that helps to understand way. And then it had deep, deep things for me.
Speaker 1:I actually read that whole paragraph and the part on the next page about confusing love with interference. I actually made a video and sent to my ex husband who I'm co parenting with to him to be like, oh my goodness. Look at this thing I did. Look at this thing I've been doing, I'm so sorry. And I'm sure he will respond to that, and it will be super helpful.
Speaker 1:I don't mean for him. I mean, a helpful conversation for just for functioning and co parenting and things. Not as a solution, not as in fixing, but as in just being and owning and, oh, this this here I am on the page, and that's uncomfortable. So I talked to him about that a lot. And because, by being honest and admitting that the power we tried to wield over alcoholism was never readily available to us, we let go of the illusion that kept us imprisoned in an endless cycle of repetitious, self defeating behavior and inevitable disappointment.
Speaker 1:Only when we finally take stock of what our efforts have produced and admit that we have been pursuing an illusion, we can turn in a direction that will actually meet our needs. I feel like in the heretic metaphor, I feel like this is the point where she makes it, like at the end of the movie, makes it all the way to the back door. But instead of going out the back door, which had been the pursuit of the whole movie, she turns around to follow her path back, to get out of the trap, and then find a different way out. That's significant to me. And that is why I shared that video with Nathan.
Speaker 1:Because that is part of what my efforts produced was making a hard life even harder. Yeah. And seeing that so clearly, I think I will also find words to talk about it with the children in a way of just summing up that paragraph, but in a safe language. Not about them tending to me, but just acknowledging that with them. And I think my middle daughter especially needs to hear that.
Speaker 1:The one who left her sweater on the stairs. I did a whole podcast about it once. And in response, she moved back to Oklahoma. She's like, I miss my father. And it turns out it's because we don't know who her biological father is.
Speaker 1:All the other CyQuest, all the other kids know their biological parents and have visits with them. But and she does with her mother, but we do not know her father. So it really was about ultimate, like, a variety of layers. But that's the one that I'm responsible for. Right?
Speaker 1:And so I am seeing it really clearly. So I think I'm going to take her to lunch today and apologize and also talk about this piece and what I learned from it. I think I'll take a picture and send it to phone too just at that paragraph. So amazing stuff in this step one and lots for me to take back to therapy too. Thank you.
Speaker 3:And here's the audio from the video I sent to Nathan about what I was learning and introducing him to the book. It was not a completely foreign concept to him. As the church he grew up in has used a version of the 12 steps that they adapted and applied to different issues and things that many of us have either gone to and attended, or take turns hosting the groups. So there was something restorative coming full circle back to the source in its original context, which felt good and healthy. And also gave Nathan a framework that he already had before I introduced him to the book, before we shared the book with him.
Speaker 3:Here's that audio.
Speaker 1:Hi. This is a super random video today early in the morning, but I wanna share with you something. This is a book called How Al Anon Works. A friend shared with me a friend from the system speak community shared it with me. But they shared it with me because I shared with them a piece of some of my struggles with some things that had happened, which I shared confidentially in response to some of the things from the conversation that you had with me and some of your concerns.
Speaker 1:And I was feeling, like, completely out of control. Like, fell apart. Right? Leaving Oklahoma, being here, not always being safe here, things being hard here, feeling so isolated and alone. None of that is your problem to solve or fix, and my therapist is on it.
Speaker 1:But in the process of that conversation in healing, I have learned some things that I want to share briefly so that you have the language of them and the understanding. Because I think some things are helpful and apply to our family or just for me owning my stuff to my parenting, especially as I continue to unshiny, happy, and things like that. Right? So I'm sorry. This is a little long.
Speaker 1:Noticing the apology. That's irrelevant. So, okay, so some things to explain. AA this is my understanding. So if I get any of this wrong, my apologies.
Speaker 1:But this is my understanding as a person being exposed to this. There's AA that is specifically for alcoholics or related things. The person with the drinking problem, the identified patient, whatever you want to say. There's that. There's Al Anon, which this book is about Al Anon and how it works.
Speaker 1:Alan Non is for the children of alcoholics, the partners of alcoholics, things like that. Then there's also another one, a third one. There's probably more, but I'm just talking about these different groups. And I'm sorry I don't have all the history straight yet. But this is the part I understand.
Speaker 1:And really, this is enough for now for what I'm trying to share. There's a third one that is ACA That means adult children of alcoholics. And my understanding is they are tacking on now dysfunctional families at the end, adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families. So any of these groups are kind of related. But also when you go to a meeting, it's really specific to that group.
Speaker 1:So for example, if you go to an Alan Non meeting, we're not talking about the partner. We're talking about ourselves. Or we're using the literature or the materials for that specific group even though it's related to the other groups. Okay. That's very oversimplifying, but it's what I have learned.
Speaker 1:So I have actually gone to a couple meetings on the suggestion of my friend. And what I've learned is just on Zoom, what I have learned and I know that, like, at church, there are groups for, like, similar things for that are really topic specific. So I'm trying to focus on what I actually wanna share. I've been to a couple meetings. They've been super helpful for me.
Speaker 1:I discovered the meetings or found a meeting that I've been to maybe five or six or seven times, and then I'm trying out other meetings as well. And I've just connected with someone locally. But they kind of all have their own steps or traditions or different things. So there's that kind of overlap, but applying it to me and my stuff. There's so much to share about trying to focus.
Speaker 1:You're so kind and patient. Thank you. But one of the things I have learned is that even if it is not your partner or your parents that were an alcoholic, that if generations before there were alcoholics, then those same family dynamics and communication styles and things like that get passed down through intergenerational trauma. Does that make sense? I feel like these are all things we've talked about before.
Speaker 1:I just have language for it now. So for example, also, you can plug in trauma and deprivation into those dynamics or experiences even if it's not alcohol specific. So for example, you grew up a member of the church with parents who are a member of the church, so they did not drink, right, because we don't do alcohol. And, also, I don't know the history of your mom or her mom's. Like, I know your mom was a convert, so I don't know, like, if her parents drink or their parents drink.
Speaker 1:But some of that stuff that got passed down to your mom, for example, and then you grew up with even though it wasn't alcohol specific, the impact of everything just gets passed down. So all kinds of different trauma and deprivation, but specifically these family dynamics and things. And then, obviously, that in my own family and other ways that we've talked about too. So my mom and her pills, you've witnessed some of the meanness of that or the chaos of that. And, like, I remember specifically in this moment, I'm thinking of the time that, like, we were over your parents were over.
Speaker 1:It must have been shortly after we were married. Well, obviously, because she was still alive. Right? But your parents were over, and we were trying to, like, have a fancy dinner. Like, we're cool newlyweds or something.
Speaker 1:And my mom was on pills and was just getting meaner, and she was saying stuff, like and then yelling at me or whatever. And, like, I remember I had to just leave the room, and I went over on the far side of the bed, and I was literally on the floor crying. And you came to me, and you were like, yeah. This is this is a lot of chaos, and it's a lot of whatever, but it's not who you are. This is her stuff and her baggage.
Speaker 1:And you talked to me so many times about how you could be good with my mom because you didn't have the same baggage that I had with her. So it was easier for you to, like, talk her down or find a neutral place with her. Those kinds of things, right, are super hard. And, also, I can't change any of that, obviously. And I don't have any power over that, obviously.
Speaker 1:But the impact of that on me then impacts my relationship with you even now, my relationship with the children, how I parent, things like that. So not just the trauma and deprivation itself, but also those disease ish dynamics. Does that make sense? So I have been going to these meetings and talking about it in therapy just trying to support my healing, my recovery, all the things. And I'm trying to see clearly what is going on and what I've been through.
Speaker 1:And so finally, I just now this morning at, like, four in the morning, got to the part where I actually learn about the steps. Right? Like, the 12 steps or whatever. But from, like, the Al Anon perspective. And the steps aren't I don't know if they're the same or different.
Speaker 1:I honestly have no idea. But just on step one and step one says, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives have become unmanageable. So maybe it's the same 12 steps. We just talk about how it applies to our lives specifically as the child of or partner of or whatever all the things. And I know that we've talked for the last year about codependency.
Speaker 1:And so that's some of this. Like, that happens because of those dynamics. So we're kind of had this weird situation where you and I both sort of had these alcohol, not alcohol family dynamics, but that disease showing up in our families in different ways and then impacting us and then finding each other. And we were so safe with each other and things were so good with each other in those ways that it was easy to just slip into codependency and take care of each other's mothers and ourselves instead of each other or ourselves. And I've just learned so much about that.
Speaker 1:But I want to read this piece when they talk about life being unmanageable. It actually defines it here, and it was really powerful to me. That is my whole point. That is what I wanted to share. It says life is unmanageable.
Speaker 1:If you find the book, it's on page 45. It says, Life is unmanageable whenever we lose perspective about what is and is not our responsibility. We take offense at actions that have nothing to do with us, or we intervene where it is inappropriate and neglect our legitimate obligations to ourselves and others. Our misplaced concerns for others becomes intrusive, meddling, resented, and doomed to failure. Instead of helping those we care about, we demonstrate a lack of respect for them and create discord in our relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think I did that a lot, and I'm really sorry. I don't wanna say that. So I'm sorry for you to get the double whammy, and I'm sorry for you that I was not safe in that way because I didn't understand this. I understand, like, M had some irritability, and I understand I understood that Em had some depression.
Speaker 1:But I did not understand this and why and what was happening. And I see it so clearly now, and it's hard. Like, I feel a lot of guilt and shame, which I can take to therapy is not your responsibility to solve. And also, appreciate that somehow and all of that you were able to remind me who I am. And one of the things always when I would drown in shame, you would always be like, no.
Speaker 1:Like, that's not real. And the people who actually know you like you. You said that to me so many times when I felt unloved or unwanted, and I just wanted to thank you for that. And it says on the next page that because of all of this, we confused love with interference. And also I participated in that and I want to own it and I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:It says we don't know how to show affection or support without giving advice. Seeking to sway another's decisions or trying to get those we love to do what we think will bring them happiness. But can you imagine combining that with literal shiny happy training? Like I sucked as a mom in some ways. Not entirely and not maliciously.
Speaker 1:I really don't think. And I've done enough therapy work to see that. There are a lot of ways I've been a really good mom. And also, I was really hard on everybody because I was desperate for safety in my life and desperate to make my life manageable, but I didn't have the tools or resources or understanding to know why it wasn't or what to do about it. And then losing a therapist made all of that worse.
Speaker 1:Not making excuses, just seeing clearly. So everything just got harder and harder until I literally couldn't exist anymore. I think that is so connected to my leaving Oklahoma. If I can do good somewhere else because there's no good I can do here, I don't mean that was right or okay. I mean, I really think that's where I was at.
Speaker 1:But because that's where I was at, I totally got entrapped here. And what I thought I could do here isn't at all what I could do here. And all I did was put myself into danger, which I also have to own and be responsible for. So I'm also dealing with that in therapy. It says we confuse caring with controlling because we don't know how to allow others the dignity of being themselves.
Speaker 1:Because I never had the dignity of existing myself either. So it's completely foreign to me. Those of us who had learned to control whatever we could in order to survive, we now continue to try to control everything and everybody without realizing what we are doing. From past experience, we are terrified to let others do as they wish. We only harm ourselves and others when we insist upon approaching every interaction in this way.
Speaker 1:Our relationships are damaged and our lives become more unmanageable. I'm so sorry. And also the point is I will make sure everyone comes home with a phone and that we are all connected on Marco Polo and have access to each other because connection brings healing. This is really hard, but I wanted to share that because it felt like a gut punch. And I just wanna own really things that I am responsible for and caused.
Speaker 1:And I'm sorry for that and for making things really hard. And I know I know you, and you will talk about how we are all doing our best, and it's true. And also, know better, do better. So here we are. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing.