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A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,
faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"
moment.
Some inspiring, some messy, and some that
probably should have come with a warning
label, because through every chapter
of every story, God is still writing.
And He's not afraid of a little chaos.
This is Jill.
And Kerrye.
Let's turn the page.
Before we start our podcast today,
we just want to feature one of
our favorite local businesses.
It is Divine and Co.
They are located at
121 East Harrell Drive.
Jill, what do you love
about Divine and Co.?
I love that they have all kinds of stuff.
They have clothes.
They have, like, the little, I
don't know what they're called.
The koozie.
Those, like, the little koozie
things, but they're metal, and you
can put in, like- Yes ⦠skinny cans.
Like, Alani cans fit in there,
or, like, Ghost cans fit in there.
All of the different cans fit in there.
They're great.
It keeps your drink cold, and they have-
Keeps your drink cold, and they have all
different kinds of- They have really cool-
designs.
They've got perfume in there.
Mm-hmm.
It's great.
They've got bookmarks.
They've got, like, Bibles
and all kinds of stuff.
There'sâ¦
Do you want it?
It's in Divine and Co.
If you haven't gone by there to see all
their things and the different booths that
are in there, you should check it out.
It's close to Salon 286.
Yep.
And- Also shout out to Salon 286-
Yeah, we love you too ⦠Family.
But, um, go by there.
Um, we love the owners,
and- Chrissy's great.
She is.
She'll figure out a way
to get you what you need.
Yeah.
If she, for some crazy way, doesn't
have it, she'll figure it out.
Yeah.
But we just wanted to take
time and shout out to them.
Um, go by and see them.
Yep.
You won't be regretting it.
No, you won't.
Bye.
Bye
okay.
So we're here with Joe and Pam Turner,
our friends, and Pam, if you remember,
already did a podcast for us and-
Yeah ⦠she's our first repeat.
Yay.
So we're excited to have you.
Glad to be back.
Yeah.
Yep.
And Joe, you wanna tell us
a little about yourself?
Whatâ¦
Your bu- your business and all that.
Well, um, how deep do you want me to go?
As far as you want.
Well, yeah, just- Do you want
me to start from the give,
beginning and give you the- Yes.
That'd be great ⦠the,
the short version?
Yes.
Yeah.
CliffsNotes.
I'll probably give you the short version.
We just digest.
We like details.
Okay.
All right.
Well, details.
All right.
Uh, graduating from high
school, 1976, and- Is that here?
No.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
I lived in Westville, Oklahoma.
Okay.
Go to Sallisaw and go up- Mm-hmm ⦠north
towards Siloam Springs, and my mom
and dad owned Piggly Wiggly stores.
Oh, I remember those.
And all through- I love a Piggly Wiggly.
Yeah.
Don't see many anymore.
Just, just 'cause it's
fun to say, you know?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's like- Piggly Wiggly.
Exactly.
And, um, I did produce- Mm-hmm ⦠as
a junior high and high schooler,
working for my parents, and a little
lady in our town had a flower shop.
She was handicap, wheelchair-bound.
Mm-hmm.
And she bought groceries from
us, and we delivered to her.
Mm-hmm.
And so I would deliver groceries
to her, and over a period of all my
junior high and high school years,
she and I become real close friends.
Mm-hmm.
And long story short, 'cause this could
go on forever- ⦠um, Thelma had to
have some major surgery and came home
and fell out of her bed over the weekend
and ripped this surgery stitching open.
Oh, no.
And her brother went by on Monday to check
on her and found her dead in her home.
Oh.
And so- Heartbreaking
so my, um, the brother called and told
me that they had found Thelma, and
of course, was very upsetting to me.
Yeah.
And over this period of time, it was
my two weeks prior to graduation.
Oh, gosh.
And they asked me to be a pallbearer
at the funeral, and I was, and about
a month or so later, we got a call
from an attorney, and I was in my
mom's office in the Piggly Wiggly.
And, uh, mom, uh, I was talking to
the man, and my mom was looking at
me real funny 'cause I was answering
the questions real odd and- Mm-hmm
⦠getting scared at the same time.
I- Yeah, 'cause it's an attorney.
What did I do?
I, yeah, it's an attorney- Yeah ⦠in
1976, and- Yeah ⦠Thelma's was
dead, and- Yeah ⦠I had seen her
on Friday delivering groceries.
And, you know, I'm thinking- So you're
like, "Oh no, they think I killed her"
⦠they think I had something to doâ¦
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I hung up, and I was petrified.
And Mom said, "What was that?"
And I said, "They want me there
for the reading of her will."
Oh.
And I thought, "That's odd."
Yeah.
And Mom said, "Wellâ¦"
I said, "What do youâ¦"
I said, "Mom, do you think they think
I had something to do with her death?"
And Mom said, "Oh, good grief, no."
Said- Yeah ⦠"She's
probably left you something."
So anyway, to shorten the story, she
willed me the entire contents of that
home, which was an atrium built across
the front that was the flower shop,
and she'd been there for 35, 40 years.
Oh my gosh.
And we put it all in storage, and I
was going to college to do whatever I
thought- Yeah ⦠I was gonna do in life.
And Mom and Dad was like, "What are you,
what are you gonna do with this stuff?"
Yeah.
And I said, "I have no idea."
And one of the bookkeepers in that
store, she, uh, her sister had f-
just finished school from Midwest
School of Floral Design- Mm-hmm
which rotated from Tulsa to Oklahoma
City back and forth every other year.
And so I called about it just to
see if maybe it'd be something
I might be interested in doing.
I didn't know.
Yeah.
And, uh- Long story
short, because- Mm-hmm.
Again, there's so many details.
But I sent $900 in 1976-
Oh ⦠for a two-week night course.
Oh my gosh.
And I moved to Tulsa.
My mom's sister and her husband family
lived there, so I moved in with them.
And the week prior to going
to the school at night, I went
into a flower shop with my aunt.
She introduced me to this family.
We got home that night and there
was a message to call them.
So I called her the next
morning and I said, "Ms.
Coble, this is Joe Turner.
I met you yesterday."
And she said, "Oh," she said, "Iâ¦
Yes, we love you, and we
loved your personality.
Would you like to work for us?"
Mm-hmm.
And I said, "Ms.
Coble, I don't even know what I'm doing."
I said, "I can make a corsage, I
can wrap a plant, but that's it."
Yeah.
And I said, "I'm just over here to see
if this is anything that would even
remotely interest me, to be honest."
Right.
And she said, "Well, would you
consider coming to work for us
if I could get your money back?"
'Cause I explained to her, you know, she
knew it was a two-week night course- Yeah.
⦠and non-refundable.
Yeah.
So she called the lady, and the lady
told her if she had enough faith
to hire some kid off the street to
work in their flower shop, which
was a very big upscale shop- Mm-hmm
during that time, back when Krystle
and china and all that stuff- Yeah.
⦠was big, and they had all that stuff.
And, uh, anyway, again, I went to work,
got my money back, went to work, worked
there two and a half years learning,
but what I didn't realize was that
God gave me the ability, I see things
finished before I ever make them.
Oh, okay.
So when I'm doing anything, or if you come
to me with a handful of flowers in a Hobby
Lobby sack and you've- Mm-hmm ⦠chopped
them all off, and you said, "Well, I was
gonna make a dining room centerpiece,
but I don't know what I'm doing."
Yeah.
Well, I justâ¦
You can tell me and explain to me what
you're thinking, and I just see it.
So in some respects, it was
easy for me to do things.
Yeah.
But then again, learning all the
mechanics and the techniques and-
Mm-hmm ⦠the dos and the don'ts and
everything about floral design and such.
Mm-hmm.
But anyway, and, um- I moved back to
Westville after two and a half years and
opened my shop back in my little hometown.
Mm-hmm.
Had it four years.
Had an aunt that opened a shop
in West Texas, and this was
again early, um, well, late '70s.
Mm-hmm.
And oil and gas, you know, cattle were-
Yep ⦠big in West Texas, and I had
an-- My uncle was, uh, running the third
largest feedlot in the world out there.
Wow.
And my aunt had a Hallmark store,
and she said, "Would you come out
here and just make silk work for me?
'Cause I'm gonna open up a flower
shop in conjunction with, you
know, this Hallmark store."
I said, "Yeah."
So I was wanting to do bigger
and better things, but I was in
a little 3,000 populated town
that what we called a $25 town.
It didn't matter what it was, it was $25.
$25.
And I wanted to do
bigger and better things.
Yeah.
And I knew I could do that out
there, not that I wanted to
move out there or anything.
Mm-hmm.
But I had an opportunity to,
to really do some other things.
So I ran back and forth
for, like, two years.
Ugh.
I would go out there, make ton of
stuff, come home, run my little store.
My aunt would call,
"We've sold everything.
Can you come back?"
Mm-hmm.
I'd come back again.
I ended up selling my store, moved to
West Texas, and in the meantime, my mom
and dad separated and divorced, and I
felt like I need to be closer to my mom.
Yeah.
So I moved back, um, to, uh,
Stillwell, which is just- Mm-hmm
⦠down south of, uh, Westville.
Funeral home heard that I was moving back,
and they were like, "Do you have a job?"
And I was like, "No."
And they said, "Would
you like to work for us?
And we, we know you, we love you, and
you'd be- Yeah ⦠great doing this."
And so I moved back there and, um,
I went to work at the funeral home.
Pam's father was pastoring a
church outside of Stillwell.
Mm-hmm.
At that time, they lived there
and was ministering there.
And, uh, Pam worked at a, um,
oil and gas transport company.
And her boss and my boss and I, all three
went to First Baptist Church in Westville.
It's where we grew up- Mm-hmm ⦠and
all of us went to church there.
And Linda told my boss, said, "I've
got a girl working for me that
Joe needs to meet," which was Pam.
Aw.
And so we have this ongoing little joke
about how I used to be in my shorts
out mowing the yard at the funeral
home, and she would circle the funeral
home, you know, checking me out.
And, uh, that was, has always
been a, a little joke- Yeah ⦠of
ours, which I think she probably
did do it a time or two.
Yeah.
A couple times.
Yeah.
Circling around the funeral home.
I mean, a girl's gotta do
what a girl's gotta do.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But we met, and, uh,
I've, "Hi, how are you?"
kind of a thing, you know.
Mm-hmm.
"Nice to meet you."
And went back, in a couple days, I kept
thinking about her, so I called her and
I said, "Would you like to have lunch?"
And I might not get the timeline exactly
right, but within, um, six to nine
months- Yeah We were married- Yeah.
Wow.
Fast.
And, uh- Listen- Yeah ⦠Ben and I met
and were married inside 10 months, so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel it.
Yeah.
We, we knew.
Yeah.
And, uh, I had to go ask
her dad, you know, and that-
Mm-hmm ⦠scared me, uh- Mm-hmm
more than doing this podcast did.
And, uh, you know, went,
went to him and said, "Mr.
Wilbur, and I would like to
marry Pam, if that's okay."
And he just looked at me and I
thought, "Oh dear, I'm fixing to get,
fixing to get the minister speech."
Mm-hmm.
And he looked at Pam's mother and
looked back at me and he said, "How
long have y'all known each other?"
And I said, "Well, by the time we get
married it'll be nine, 10, 11 months."
I think it was about eight months.
Eight months, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, shorter.
And he looked over at Cathy Pam's
mother, and said, "What do you think?"
And she just kinda shrugged her
shoulders, and she wasn't gonna,
you know- Say anything ⦠she
wasn't gonna say anything.
No.
And Pam's dad said, "Well, I guess
if you don't know him in a year's
time, you'll never know him."
And, uh, so we got married
and, uh, moved to Fort Smith.
And I managed two stores in Fort
Smith, seven years each one.
And then Pam's mom and dad in
the meantime had moved to Atkins
and was pastoring at, uh- Mm-hmm
Hillcrest, um, Pentecostal Church there.
And she got the inkling to buy a little
flower shop here in Russellville.
Mm-hmm.
And she called me one day and said, "I'm
thinking about buying this flower shop.
I want you to come down and look at it."
And it was in February, and we came down
and they still had all their Christmas
stuff in the store, and it was- Oh, man.
It was just not s- it was just stuff.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was just stuff.
And so I told Cathy I said,
"Let's look at the books.
I'd keep the little designer-"
Mm-hmm ⦠keep the van, keep the cash
register, keep the cooler, and tell them
we don't want anything else in here.
Yeah.
And so we made them an offer
after we looked at the books.
They had good income on the books.
Yeah, yeah.
And so we made them an offer and they
took it, and they cleaned out the building
and that started a two-year process
of me on my days off and weekends-
Mm-hmm ⦠Pam and I would come to
Russellville and I would build displays
and make pretties and blah, blah, blah.
Wow.
And yeah.
Yeah.
And so after that, we, we were
in that shop, uh, six years.
But one reason we did the running
back and forth was because I was
in nursing school in Fort Smith.
Oh, yeah.
And the hospital there had a
program that if you agreed to
work for them for two years, they
would pay your tuition and books.
Mm.
So I had to- Wow.
Yeah, you can't turn that down ⦠finish
out my two years- Yeah ⦠of working
for them, so that's why for two years-
Yeah ⦠we went back and forth.
Yeah.
We ran back and forth for two years.
Yeah.
And we had two babies.
And then third baby come along
and we, uh, moved to Russellville.
We finally, the pay scaleâ¦
In the, in the meantime
they were offering, St.
Mary's was offering Pam a job, but
the- Mm-hmm ⦠pay scale from where
she was to what that was was so-
Yeah ⦠different- Uneven ⦠that
we couldn't- Yeah ⦠couldn't move.
And I said, "We've got three
babies and- Mm-hmm ⦠we
can't, can't even move for that.
There's, there's no way
we could survive on that."
Yeah.
So over a period of that two
years, they haggled with her and
finally got her within 50 cents,
I think is what it ended up.
Yeah.
And she called me 'cause she
finally told them, "Quit calling me.
Appreciate the offer, but-"
Yeah, like you can't make this
work ⦠pay scale d- yeah.
Yeah.
Pay scale just not there.
And they called her one day and got
her within 50 cents, so she called me
and I was at work and she said, "Do
you think we can move for 50 cents?"
And I said, "No.
Why?"
And she goes, "No, I mean they've got me
within 50 cents- ⦠of what I'm making."
And I said, "Yeah, we can move for that."
Yeah.
So we moved to Russellville, and
we were here couple years, and we
outgrew that building that we were in.
Mm-hmm.
We moved to, um, north Arkansas,
a little yellow house there by-
Mm-hmm ⦠what used to be Taco John's.
Yeah.
We were in that house for six years.
We outgrew- Mm ⦠that building and we
built the building that we're in now.
Yeah.
But while we were in the little yellow
house, Pam came out of the bathroom, which
was right adjacent to the register area.
Mm-hmm.
And she had this horrible frantic
look on her face, and she was
holding a pregnancy- Oh ⦠stick.
And I looked at her.
I, I wasn't nice, was I?
No, no.
I wasn't nice.
And I looked at her and I looked down at
that little stick, and I knew what it was.
And we- He said, "I don't
care" ⦠we were done with babies.
Yeah.
And I s- and I said, "I don't care.
No."
And Iâ¦
Did I leave or did you leave?
Uh, we went to lunch.
Did we?
I- Yes, and I was crying ⦠was
thinking I went and got in the car.
Yeah, she was crying.
I thought I went and got in the car
and left, but- No ⦠that's what I do.
We went to lunch.
When we fight, I just go
get in the car and leave.
Mm.
It's just easier to walk out,
you know- Yeah ⦠in my opinion.
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
Yep.
It's just, just walk out.
Because I wanna fight.
She likes- Mm-hmm ⦠to fight.
I'm not a fighter.
I just say the peace.
Ben and I have a rule where,
like, 'cause he's, he's one that
he's like, "I need to process."
And I'm like, "I need to
talk this through- Mm-hmm
in order to process."
Mm-hmm.
And so we have a rule where I
have to give him 30 minutes.
Yeah.
And so he gets to do whatever he needs to
do for 30 minutes, but in 30 minutes he
has to come back and let me have my turn.
That's a good-
Yeah ⦠that's a good thing.
And then we go with it.
Yeah.
We learned it in therapy.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
It's not original to us.
Yeah.
We learned it in therapy.
It's a good one.
Yeah.
We highly recommend it.
Yes.
Yeah.
So we went to lunch, and I guess
we worked it out, and we came back.
And Pam went to the doctor, whatever given
time, and there was- ⦠the two babies.
Yeah.
Twins.
Twins.
Like, God said, "Take this."
And I wasâ¦
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was gonna be 41 when they were born.
Ugh.
And Pam was 38.
37.
I think 37.
And we went to the doctor, we're pregnant.
We go back the next trip, we're pregnant
with twins, and the girls there in the
office, uh, Vicky Henderson was here-
Mm-hmm ⦠you know, at that time.
Love her.
And yeah, great.
And, uh, the girls there knew I loved
coffee, so they had me a coffee fixed.
And I went in the room and they goop
Pam's belly, and they're doing the
monitor, and as clear as I'm looking at
y'all, I was looking at that monitor.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
I saw the two- Yeah ⦠heartbeats.
Yeah, you can tell.
I mean, I knew, and I thoughtâ¦
I just leaned back against the wall.
I thought, "Oh, no."
And Pam caught on and she's like-
Mm-hmm ⦠"Don't tell me it's twins."
Vicky's like, "I'm sorry I lied.
There's two babies in here."
Oh.
Yeah.
So anyway, we had twin boys.
Um, Krystle's the oldest, and
then Kyle, Kirk, Kevin, Kendall.
Mm-hmm.
And then we have Raymond,
that's our adopted boy.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, and that's a whole 'nother story.
We won't go into that.
But, uh, anyway, got all the
kids and, uh- Just doing great.
Yeah.
Everything's good.
Yeah.
We have had a tr- mu- tremoshâ¦
What's the word?
Tr- Tumultuous?
Tumultuous- Yes.
Mm-hmm ⦠road at times.
Yeah.
And, uh, there was some horrible
bumps, and there was some bridges that
were out that we nearly fell through.
And, uh, but God was always there to
pick up the pieces and bring us back
together and- That's great ⦠and such.
And yeah.
There was a time right after the
house fire that, I don't know, Joe
was going through some things, and
he, he told me, he said, "I don't
think I love you anymore, and I, I
think I want to go somewhere else."
Mm-hmm.
And I'm telling you, it broke me.
Iâ¦
And that's, that's during the time, like
I talked about during the house fire, how
I let- Yes ⦠Satan rock me to sleep.
Yeah.
So that was during that time.
And I remember going, at the time, it
was during that time, we were living with
Mom and Dad, and I remember going up to
the bedroom where we were staying and
just laid in the floor and just cried.
And I really felt God just come
down and put his arms around me
and tell me it's gonna be okay.
But we went for probably a year, uh,
not, maybe not quite a year, but almost
a year, um, of going through the house
fire and then the house, and there were
times that we were shopping for furniture,
and, like, our bedroom furniture,
he put it off until the very last.
He wouldn't even- I- Because he didn't
wanna- The whole time I was thinking-
Yeah ⦠I probably wasn't going to go.
In my mind.
I wasn't- Yeah ⦠saying that to
any f- any of the family at all.
Yeah.
But, uh, and I don't even
know if Pam knows this.
I don't know that I've ever told
you this, but in our bedroom on one
of the walls, when the studs were
up, I wrote on there, "God, I don't
think I can move in this house."
Wow.
"And I need your help."
And I know exactly what wall
it's on and what general area
of the stud it's wrote on.
Oh, wow.
But, uh, you know, if they ever tear
that wall down, they're gonna read
that and think, "What was going on?"
You know?
But, uh, yeah, there was, there was
just- But there was almost a year
where I would say, "I love you," and
he would say, "I know you do," but he
wouldn't tell me that, "I love you" back.
Mm.
And then one day he came in, and
we were getting ready to go on
our very first cruise, and he came
in, and I said something about it,
and he was telling me something,
and he said, "And I do love you."
Ugh.
And it just, it just meant so much to me.
Yeah.
You know?
So, but there was, there was
just that time that- We just went
through that and it was horrible.
Um, but I wouldn't trade it for
anything because it taught me so much.
Yeah.
And it taught me, don't ever,
ever let Satan rock you to sleep.
Yeah.
Don't ever let him rob from you
what God- Yeah ⦠can do for you.
Yeah.
Because he will.
And I, I had gotten to the point to
where I wasn't reading my Bible, I wasn't
praying, and now I don't let a day go by.
Yeah.
We didn't even go to
church for quite some time.
We- We quit going to church ⦠we
went, we went on Sunday mornings-
Yeah ⦠and that was it.
We just, we- I
mean ⦠didn't participate.
Did your kids know anything was going on?
The older ones did.
The twins were about nine-
Mm-hmm ⦠and they didn't really.
They know- Yeah
now that something was going on, but
they don't know a lot of details.
Yeah.
But the older kids- Yeah ⦠they knew.
Krystle, you know, those of you that
know Krystle, you know, she was a rock.
She's insightful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She was a rock through that whole
thing because- Yeah ⦠I would
leave the house, and I'm sure God
either wrote her a note- Mm-hmm
or told her audibly where I was.
Mm-hmm.
Because I wouldâ¦
And, and it was funny because
here I was thinking, "I can't
move into this property.
I, I don't wanna be here," you know?
And I would go out there though, and I
would walk around that house being built,
you know, or I'd go out there and just
sit under a big tree that's still there.
There was a lot of trees on
that lot when the house burned.
Mm-hmm.
But we had them all took
down, but this one big tree.
There's several way in the back,
but the one- Yeah ⦠closest
to the house we left.
And I'd go out there and just drive
plumb up my truck, car plumb up under
that tree and just sit in the truck.
And here in a few minutes,
there's a knock on the window,
and I'd look, and it's Krystle.
I'm like, "How'd you know I was out here?"
But every time s- I, I'd go to the river.
I went to the river- Mm-hmm ⦠a lot,
um I've, I, I wrote a lot at the river.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I don't know where those papers went-
Okay ⦠because I intended to keep them.
Mm-hmm.
'Cause I wanted to read back
through them- Mm-hmm ⦠sometime.
But I wrote a lot at the river.
You know, I'd take a notebook
with me and I'd write.
And, uh, I think I even wrote a
really good poem, and that's one
reason I'd like to find them.
Because I was talking, uh, to
myself about, uh, the rage that
was going on within me, you know,
emotionally, physically- Yeah
um, spiritually most of all.
Uh, but I compared that to the
raging of the water in the river.
Yeah.
And, and the flow and the, and how
quickly you can be in one spot, and
with that current and the turmoil
of the river, you can be downstream
and- Yeah ⦠covered plum up, you
know- Yeah ⦠in a matter of seconds.
Mm-hmm.
And I compared what I was
going through to that a lot.
Yeah.
And, uh, wrote about that.
But I, I had a whole notebook that
I wrote in for probably over a
month, and I went nearly every day.
Uh, there's- And there was
one time you drew the circle.
Yeah.
This was really, really, uh, really
something that I think the first
time I ever really remember God
speaking to me pretty audibly.
Mm-hmm.
Me just hearing- Mm-hmm ⦠Him sayâ¦
I was going through so much, and
I'd walk down the river and there
was a big old stump that had come
uncovered- Mm-hmm ⦠in the sand, and
it was big enough I could sit on it.
And I would climb up on that,
and that's where I sat and wrote.
And it was right out in the
middle of it, I mean, anybody
could see me sitting down there.
Wasn't any trees around or anything.
Yeah.
Just sand and that stump.
And I would sit on that
stump and I would write.
And one day I walked down there and I
had a stick big walking cane almost of
a stick that I would walk down the river
with, and I'd walk back toward my truck.
And when I would get to the edge of the
grass, I would throw it kinda to hide it.
Mm-hmm.
And every time I would go back over
there, nearly every afternoon after
work, I'd go straight to the river.
I wouldn't go home to Pam.
And I'd go to the river, and I'd
get my stick, and I'd walk down the
river, and I'd get on that stump.
But this particular day, I went down
there and something was just really
pulling at my heart about that whole
situation we were going through.
And I took that stick and I drew
a big circle with the stick,
and I stood outside the circle.
No, I got in the circle and drew a circle-
Mm-hmm ⦠around me, and I dared God
to get in the circle with me, because
I was searching and seeking so much
for him- Mm-hmm ⦠in one respect, but
then we were just going through so much.
But, you know, I remember, uh,
uh, this just gets me every time.
I drew the circle around myself, and
I was standing there and I said, "God,
I dare you to get in this circle."
And instantly he told me, "I was in
the circle before you ever stepped in."
Wow.
Yeah.
And that was the moment that
everything changed for me.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man.
Because I, I, I dared him to
get in the circle with me.
I was so upset and mad and, you know,
just so away from- Yeah ⦠from him.
But then to say, you know, "I dare you to
get in the circle with me," and instantly
I heard him say, "I was in the circle
before you ever stepped in the circle."
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that just changed the whole thing.
I didn't make you cry.
It's a, it- Yeah.
It's a good- ⦠it feels like a
crying day ⦠it's, it's, yeah.
Yeah.
No, no.
But, but it's a good cry, you know- Yeah.
It is ⦠because it was the
moment that things changed for me.
Yeah.
And I went home to Pam and apologized
and, you know, we started reconnecting,
you know, in so many- Yeah
different ways and everything, and it was,
you know, it was the moment that reallyâ¦
And I don't know that I ever went
back to the river after that.
I, I really don't
remember if I did or not.
Yeah.
We went to counseling, um-
Yeah ⦠Janine and Earl Helton.
Yeah, yeah.
The pastor at Bethel.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
They helped us so much, you know, with
counseling and Talked to us, and I
remember- Is that where y'all were going?
Mm-hmm.
We were going to Bethel, yeah.
We had started going there.
We were going to my dad's church,
and Krystle, again, being who she
is, she said, "I really think that
y'all would benefit from counseling."
Yeah.
And she said they were going there
at the time to Bethel, and she
said, "I really think Pastor Earl
and Janine could help you guys."
And so we moved churches, because it's
hard for your dad to give you- Oh,
yeah ⦠as a couple marital advice.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
And- It's hard for him to be biased
'cause- Yes ⦠you're his little girl.
Yeah.
Right.
And he was, you know, gonna be
on my side because, like you
said, I was his little girl.
Yeah.
And so anyway, we
started- I will say this.
I don't mean to interrupt
you, but I will say this.
I don't remember ever, through
that whole ordeal, thinking that
her mom and dad were against me.
That's good.
I never felt- And that is
good ⦠I never felt that way.
Yeah.
I understand what she just
said, you know, that's- Yeah.
Well, yeah.
That, yeah.
That was her mom- That's parenthood
⦠and dad- Yeah ⦠and as parents,
we're gonna protect our kids.
Mm.
Right.
Whether you're a scumbag
of a in-law or not.
Right.
You know?
But, uh, but I never felt that they
didn't ever not love me- That's good.
Yeah ⦠or care of what was
going- That's a good parent
to- That is some good parents.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In-laws.
Yeah.
It was.
And good ministers.
Yeah.
Like- Yeah ⦠that, that speaks
to the love of God, like- Yeah.
Yeah ⦠that you were outside,
and clearly, like, theyâ¦
I don't know.
I mean, I'm supposing that they
knew something was happening.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
But not the nitty-gritty- Yeah
of anything.
Right.
But that they weren't gonna
treat you any differently.
They let- Yeah ⦠you still
feel the love, like that- Yeah.
I think her parents- ⦠that's
the way Christians are
supposed to- Yeah ⦠behave.
Yeah.
You know?
And I think that wasâ¦
I think her mom and dad probably knew
pretty much everything that was going on.
Yeah.
I, yeah, they did.
Uh, we didn't- Well, because
Dad- We didn't really try
to hide things from them.
No.
Yeah.
And Dad talked to me one time
and he said, "Look, God revealed
a whole bunch of things to me."
Yeah.
And so he knew because God told him.
Yeah.
And so he told me one time
when we were trying to work
things out, he said, "Honey-"
I know what I would tell you to
do right now, but you've gotta
do what you think is right.
Mm-hmm.
And whatever you decide, we're behind you.
Yeah.
We'll back you up 100%.
Yeah.
So whatever you decide to do.
You know, he never tried to
sway me one way or the other.
He always steered me toward God first.
Mm-hmm.
And then he said, "We're,
we're here for you."
Yeah.
That's, that's good parenting.
That is good parenting.
That's, that's just kinda the dad he was.
Well, it's also, it's
trust in the Lord as well.
Yeah.
Like, he trusted God that if he, if he
steered you to God, God would, God would-
Right ⦠help you make the decision
that- Yes ⦠he can stand behind 100%.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And once we turned everything over
to God, and we started doing things
the way we needed to do things, and
getting involved in church, and you
can say you don't need church all
you want to, but people need church.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, they do.
You need that gathering- You need that
fellowship ⦠and that fellowship.
Yep.
And when we started that, our
marriage was, after that, it was
better than it ever was before.
Yeah.
I mean, when God does
something, He doesâ¦
When Satan tries to rob something and
God restores it, it's so much better.
Yeah.
And it, it has been so much better
than it ever was before that
You're just a ball bag.
You're not.
She's just a ball bag today.
Yeah.
But that's okay.
I mean, I think that it, it is
very, it's comforting in a way.
You know what I mean?
We're all gonna maybe not necessarily
go through that particular thing, but
they're, we're all gonna end up in
a position where we have to evaluate
our own circumstances and our own,
you know, decisions that we need to
make and see where God is in it, and
knowing that we can rely on Him- Yeah
in any of those situations, and
He's faithful to hold us and lead us
and guide us and be there is- Yeah.
It's- I love it when- It's overwhelming
sometimes ⦠I love it when we're
sitting in church and, and anyone is
speaking or pastor's, you know, preaching.
Mm-hmm.
If they ever make any kind of a statement,
I'm going back to that daring God thing.
Mm-hmm.
You know, if they ever say anything,
you know, "Well, I just dared God to
do this," or, "I dare you to do this."
And Brother Chris not long ago was
ministering about something, and it
was like, you know, it wasn't so much
I dare you to do this- Mm-hmm ⦠but,
you know, I encourage you to do this.
Mm-hmm.
But every time I hear that, I go
right back to that sand, drawing
that stick around myself, you know,
and stepping in that circle, and you
know, saying, "Okay, God, I dare you.
I dare you."
Yeah, I'm just saying, you
better be serious when you
dare God to do something- Yeah.
⦠'cause He will show up.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
He will.
And He showed up.
No, He was already there.
Exactly.
He was already there.
He will let it be known.
Yeah.
I'm, buddy, like- Yeah ⦠I was
here when you drew the circle.
Like- Yeah.
Yeah ⦠you're here
because I brought you.
That's right.
Well, and it, and it made me
think too, uh, you know, every
hair on your head He knows.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You know.
Every grain of sand, He
knows how many there are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
And I thought about that, and I,
something I wanted to share with you
too that has nothing really to do with
anything other than the fact that I
knew that when I dared God to get in
that circle, and I stepped in it, and
I dared Him to get in it, and He said,
"I was already in the circle-" Mm-hmm.
before you stepped in the circle."
Yeah.
That stick I had carried for probably
a month or more, I'd been going over
there- Mm-hmm ⦠and writing or just
sitting and thinking- Mm-hmm ⦠and
whatever, uh, looking at that river, um-
I remember that when God said that to
me, I stepped out of that circle and I
put the stick down and I never went back.
Wow.
So to think that, you know,
I come to the place finally-
Yeah ⦠thank the Lord, that when
I put the stick down, I was done.
Yeah.
Right, but also he, he
put the stick there.
Yeah.
He gave you the time to- Yeah
⦠contemplate and to get there, and it
was- Yeah ⦠it was there over and over.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It was a stick.
Right.
Yeah.
For a month.
And an old stump.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was smooth enough I could set on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And sometimes for two hours.
Yeah.
You know, I would sit there.
He made that just for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, Iâ¦
You know, it was a, a little throne
I could sit on, you know, there.
Mm-hmm.
But it was comfortable.
Uh, but yet I would sit there
nearly till dark because I didn't-
Yeah ⦠wanna go home at that time.
Yeah.
But that particular day when I drew
that sand, that circle in the sand,
and dared him to get, you know, in
there with me, he was already there.
I think God is just waiting for
us to be real and authentic with
him, and even if that's messy.
Yeah.
And he's not surprised.
Right.
He knows what you're thinking.
Yeah.
He knows how you actually feel.
Yeah.
So he's just waiting for you
to be honest enough with him to
be like, "Here's where I am."
Yeah.
"I, I need to see you show up.
Get in here with me."
Yeah.
Yeah.
"If this is how it's gonna be, let's go."
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he's go, "That's what I needed."
Yes.
"I needed you to say, 'Let's go.'"
Yeah.
"'Cause buddy, buckle up.
Let's go."
Yeah.
That's right.
You know?
So when he came home,
like, were you shocked?
Did you have any kind of inkling
that that was gonna be that night?
I didn't know that untilâ¦
He didn't tell me that until- She
probably didn't even know where I was
about a mile.
No.
She might have known I was at the river.
I don't even know if you knew that or not.
I didn't know at the time that
you were going to the river.
Iâ¦
Did you go to the Dardanelle side?
Mm-hmm.
I would go to the Russellville side.
That's hilarious.
Wow.
And I would sit there.
We were probably looking across
the river at each other and
didn't even realize who it was.
Wouldn't that be just like God?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't go there a lot in the evenings
because the kids were home, so- Mm-hmm.
Yeah ⦠I had to take care of the kids.
Yeah.
So a lot of times I
would go during the day.
Mm-hmm.
And I would not answer my phone.
I would be gone for a couple of-
and I would not answer my phone.
I wouldn't answer a text.
I wouldn't answer nothing.
I would turn praise and worship
music up as loud as I could.
Sometimes I would scream.
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes I would cry.
Yeah.
Sometimes I was just silent
because I didn't know what to do.
Yeah.
I just knew that I wanted
my marriage to work- Yeah
because I knew that my kids would be
okay because God had 'em, but I didn't
want my kids to come from a broken home.
Yeah.
I didn't want that, and
that's what I always told God.
"I know they'll be okay because
you've got 'em, but I don't want
them to come from a broken home."
Right.
Yeah.
That's my desire.
And so He restored, and He restored good.
Yeah.
You know?
But there were times that- that we
went through where we would still
fight and argue and, and sometimes
I would be afraid that if I said
something- Yeah ⦠that he would leave.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And he did tell me- 'Cause I like
to go get in the car and drive off.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not a fighter.
That's not it at all, dude.
I'm not.
I'm not a fighter.
I'm a flight.
Yeah.
I'm gonna- Yeah, I'm a flight risk.
I'm gonna go.
But he did- It's not so much
I'm a fighter, it's that I
need to externally process.
Yeah, we know how you are.
I am, I'm a fighter.
I, I'm a fighter.
I'll admit it.
I'm not.
I'm a fighter.
Mm-mm.
Pam wants the last word.
Yeah.
I don't necessarily want the last word, I
just want you to hear what I have to say.
Uh-huh.
Which oftentimes comes
with having the last word.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Yep.
Yeah.
Or over and over and over.
I, I do tend to, to say
things over and over and over.
I would catch myself doing that with
the kids when I was getting onto them.
I wanna share something that has
nothing to do with what we're
talking about, but this is how-
Perfect ⦠silly ridiculous so that
you'll quit crying over there, okay?
Yeah, please.
Okay.
A couple days ago, we're at the shop
working, and she comes in and she
says, "I'm going to get my nails done."
And I'm thinking, "You just got your
nails done two or three days ago."
And I said, "You just
got your nails done."
She goes, "No, I didn't."
She said, "It's been a while."
She said she'd been to the doctor
that morning to have blood drawn just
for, you know, simple little whatever.
Yeah.
And she comes in there and says
she's getting her nails done.
And I said, "You just
got your nails done."
She said, "No, I didn't."
She said, "I told myself that if I didn't
cry when they stuck me to draw the blood,
that I could go get my nails done."
That's right.
Yeah.
I was looking at them,
they look real good.
Thank you.
I thought, "Good grief."
Yeah.
"What an excuse."
Yeah.
Well, listen.
Yeah.
Self-care is important.
Absolutely.
Well, I think I'm gonna try that.
I'm gonna- Well, I told him- ⦠one day
at the shop ⦠I said, when the kids
were little, I never got to do that.
Yeah.
No.
If my nails were painted, it
was because I painted them.
Right.
So- Now you need some of
that ⦠now I can do that.
Well, yeah.
Take care of yourself.
We lived paycheck to paycheck
back in those days, and- Yeah.
In those days ⦠we had to
write everything down as to
what got paid and what was left.
Yeah.
And, you know, the highlight for me
and Krystle and Kyle, uh, when they
were probably two, three, four years
old, they loved to go to Waffle House.
Uh, we lived in Fort Smith at that time,
and on Tuesday nights, kids ate free.
Mm-hmm.
And I would load them up.
Pam wouldn't even go most of
the time, 'cause she needed some
quiet time probably, 'cause we
had- Yeah ⦠the two babies.
And I'd load the kids up, and we'd go
to Waffle House, and those kids, you
never seen them eat bacon and sausage.
Even the waitstaff would go, "Those
kids eat more bacon and sausage."
But yeah, we, we've had
some great, great fun times.
That's fun.
Yeah.
And then we've had some stuff that
just Literally drug us through the mud.
Well, we all- You know ⦠I
mean, that's- I mean, that's just
life ⦠that's how life goes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just life.
Yeah.
I remember, like early on, you
know, that first year, I feel
like it's the hardest year.
I feel like the first year
is- Yeah ⦠the hardest year.
I'd say probably up to the first five.
But- Yeah ⦠anyway, I l- I would
leave 'cause I would get mad, you know?
Yeah.
And then one time I left and
my mom called me, and she was
like, "What are you doing?"
I was like, "Just driving around."
And she was like, "Well, Bobby
called me wondering where youâ¦"
And I was like, "What?"
That made me so mad.
And I was like- Lit a fire again.
Yeah.
Ooh.
Yeah.
So the next time I left, which I
don't know how many, how long it
was, but, um, I slammed the door,
got in my car, and I was like, "Oh."
Went back in and I was like,
"And do not call my mother."
Yeah.
And slammed the door again.
I liked slamming the door.
Yeah.
Pam slammed the door
one time, you remember?
And I yanked the door open.
I said, "Don't you ever
slam that door again."
She slammed it a few more times.
I was gonna say.
I was gonna say, woo.
Yeah.
Yeah, I slam doors.
You know what I miss?
Is a real phone where you
could slam a phone down.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
It's not the same when you just- Uh-uh.
No ⦠push a, like a-
Just hang up on them.
Yeah.
Just that satisfaction of
slamming that phone down.
The satisfaction of, bam, and they knew.
Yeah.
I miss that.
Yeah.
Me too.
But, but God has restored.
It's- Yeah ⦠it's been so good, and
we've been so blessed in our business and-
Yeah ⦠just, it's really, really beenâ¦
It's been quite a journey.
We're kinda on the
downhill side a little bit.
We- Nah ⦠think we need to,
we wanna travel a little more.
That's great.
That is the life.
See, see the country- Yeah ⦠and
see, see the world and- I gottaâ¦
We've gotta figure out how to do that.
Yeah.
Listen, so Maybe, I, well this
might get cut, which normally means
it doesn't, but it might get cut
'cause I don't know whether I want
to give this advice to everybody.
You need to make a blog and then just blog
about it, and then it's tax deductible.
Yes.
Do you know there's two or three
people at church- Right ⦠and
it happened last night.
Mm-hmm.
We sat down in our seats and this man
comes around, we won't disclose names.
And this man comes up and taps us on the
shoulder and he goes, "How was your trip?"
And we're like, "We
haven't been on one yet.
We're leaving next month."
"Oh, I thought y'all just got back."
"No, we're leaving next month."
"Well, let me know how it goes.
I'm anxious to hear how it went."
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Start a blog.
Yeah.
And I mean, it's already like
a little bit- Yeah ⦠taxable
'cause you've got your- Yeah
travel agent stuff, so.
Yeah.
So do you like to travel
as much as she does?
I love to travel, but it's harder for
me with the business- Mm-hmm ⦠because
I'm a little bit of a control freak.
Yeah.
And I want things- A
lot of a control freak.
I'm thinking, you don't say.
I want, I want things done right.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
You know?
And it's, and not that our staff
wouldn't do that, but- Yeah ⦠uh, I
learned probably maybe 10 years ago or
less, I quit carrying my cell phone.
When I go on vacation, I
turn it off at the house.
The phone either stays at the house
or it's in the glove box in the car.
Yeah.
When we- Yeah ⦠get on an airplane
or ship or wherever we're going,
I don't, I don't carry my phone.
Pam carries hers, and that way the
kids can call or if the store needs us.
Mm-hmm.
If there's a legit emergency.
A legit emergency.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
And most of the time, Pam just, and Tyler
that works for us- Mm ⦠he's amazing.
He's been with us eight years, and
he's childhood friend of the twins,
and we've known Tyler since he was
a little bitty boy, and so- Yeah
he's just another one of our boys.
But, um, he'll call Pam and
say, "Da, da, da, da, da," and
Pam and he'll just handle it.
And I don'tâ¦
I get home and they're like, "Oh, I
guess you didn't hear there was a fire
in the bathroom while y'all were gone."
I was like, "No."
I look at Pam, she goes, "It was okay.
We took care of it."
You know, whatever the situation is.
Yeah.
But yeah, they just, they don't
bother me with it 'cause I worry.
When I first started doing that-
Weddings, especially on the weekends- Oh,
yeah ⦠I'd be looking at my watch, and
Pam's like, she knew what I was doing.
Mm-hmm.
She was like, "Would you stop?"
Yeah.
I said, "What?"
She goes, "You're looking at your watch
'cause it's almost 6:00, and you know
that wedding at home starts at 6:00."
Mm-hmm.
"And you're sitting there fretting
over it, and you're on vacation.
Stop."
Yeah.
And so I have learned to get past that.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I, I now think, "Oh, wedding starts
in 10 minutes," and I let it go.
Hope they're all right.
Yeah.
I let it go.
Yeah.
And then about 7:00, I'm- Better
them than me ⦠I'm like 7:00, I'm
like, "Okay, the wedding's over.
They're at the reception."
Yep.
9:00, "Okay, they should be tearing down.
Everything's good."
And then the next day- So you
haven't totally let go of it.
No, I haven't totally let go.
But I'm not near what I used to be- Yeah.
No ⦠'cause- He's not ⦠you
know, so- You aren't calling
and saying, "Are you okay?"
No.
"Is everything fine?"
No.
"Do I need to come over there?"
No.
That's one reason I- The kids and
I used to call it wedding mode.
Uh-huh.
He would get in wedding
mode, and we stayed clear.
Mm-hmm.
And when Mom and Dad lived elsewhere,
a lot of times on big wedding weekends,
we would go to my parents' house.
They would pack up, and like when we
lived in Fort Smith, that two-year
running back and forth thing.
Mm-hmm.
When I had a big weddings in Fort Smith,
and Pam knew there was a wedding that
weekend, she would pack up, come to her
mom and dad's in Atkins for the weekend.
Mm.
She ran off a lot just because-
It was better for us to be
it was better.
Yeah.
We had healed from one
thing in our marriage.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We didn't need other people's
weddings destroying our marriage.
Yeah.
So she and the kids would leave.
Yep.
And, uh, yeah, but, uh, yeah.
Do you still like doing weddings?
I love it.
Yeah.
If you could pick one, one event,
would, is that it, like weddings?
If you could only do like weddings or
I don't, I don't know, like birthdays
or Valentine's Day or whatever.
Probably not ever Valentine's Day, butâ¦
Valentine, well, let me
answer your question.
Um- I don't know that I
have one particular thing.
Mm-hmm.
I love working weddings and seeing
people happy- Yeah ⦠and knowing
that, you know, we made some young
lady's day just be all- Great
that we could do- Yeah ⦠to
help it be what it was, you know?
Yeah.
Um, you know, through the years
there's been a one or twoâ¦
Th- uh, this is my 50th year this year.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
I started in '76.
Yeah.
This is 26.
Yeah.
And 50 years, and we tried to
calculate one time how many weddings
roughly I thought I had done.
It was thousands.
Geez.
Uh, 'cause we do weddings
every weekend, you know?
Yeah.
There's not so much a
wedding month anymore.
Mm-hmm.
It's weddings are ever- All
the time ⦠all the time.
Ever.
Yeah.
Even, not even on Fridays and Saturdays.
Yeah.
We do Monday weddings-
Mm-hmm ⦠Wednesday, Tuesday.
Yeah.
Uh, during the COVID era, we did
weddings from Sunday to Sunday.
Wow.
Girls got sick of waiting.
They couldn'tâ¦
They, they might cancel their venue.
They couldn't get a, they couldn't
rebook- Mm-hmm ⦠'cause all the venues
were booked for- Yeah ⦠later on
as we started going back to weddings.
And so they're just like, "Okay, I'm
getting married at grandma's house."
Beautiful yard.
I love it.
And so we were doing- Yeah ⦠these
weddings from Sunday to Sunday.
I mean, every day we had
weddings for over a month.
Wow.
And that nearly did us in 'cause- Yeah.
We were wedding every day.
That's exhausting.
It's exhausting- Yeah ⦠every day.
Um, I was gonna share something else.
It is exhausting because
he puts so much into it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just- Somebody asked me one time,
"Do you go help him with weddings?"
I said, "No, it's better for
our marriage if I don't."
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Just, just stay away.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because, you know, when we work a wedding,
uh, if we're literally there working
a wedding, it's, it's nonstop pretty
much from the time we get there- Yeah
till the time we clean up.
Yeah.
Because there's so many
things behind the scenes.
Mm-hmm.
And those mamas that have dealt with their
daughter's weddings and kind of wanted to
do and part of their daughter's weddings.
Uh-huh.
You know, we have a lot of weddings where
they do the first daughter's wedding.
"Oh, my friends and I, we're
gonna do it, da, da, da.
We just need body flowers from you."
Okay.
Well, then two years later they come in
with the second daughter and they're like,
"That was the dumbest idea I ever had."
Mm-hmm.
"And I worked killed myself
doing that first wedding.
I hated every aspect of it
because I was so involved.
I was a nervous wreck."
Mm-hmm.
"I couldn't enjoy my daughter."
Mm-hmm.
"And da, da, da, da, and I'm
not doing that this time."
We hear that a lot.
Yep.
Yeah.
Especially if they've got
two or three daughters.
And we had a family a few years
ago, their daughter got married,
and at the wedding, the second
daughter got engaged, which was- Oh,
goodness ⦠a surprise to everybody.
Ooh.
And- And isn't, sometimes
it's a little taboo.
Well, it was a little taboo- Yeah.
Okay ⦠because he was going into the
service- Oh ⦠and was leaving in six
months, and they wanted to get married
within that six months as it turned out.
And the mom called me and
she goes, "I have a problem."
I said, "What's the matter?"
She goes You know, Cindy Lou
got engaged at, you know- Mm-hmm
Kathy's wedding, and she- they're
getting married in six months.
I can't afford to do another
wedding- Right ⦠to the
magnitude that we did this wedding.
Mm-hmm.
What am I gonna do?
And I said, "Come in,
we'll talk about it."
So we took focal points and jazzed those
up- Mm-hmm ⦠to make it look grand
and glorious, and repurposed everything
we could move and do to help- Mm-hmm
them move it to the reception to
make it look more grand and glorious.
Aw.
So that- That's really nice ⦠Cindy
Lou's looked as good as Kathy's.
Right.
And then turned around and within
the year, the third daughter got
engaged- Oh, goodness ⦠and
they pulled the same thing.
And that mama by then, she was
just like, "I don't care anymore.
Just whatever she wants to do,
we're just gonna make it happen."
You know?
So- Uh ⦠there's lots of fun
stories that- I'm like, my goodness.
Never been so happy to just have one girl.
Yeah.
That's awful.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, oh.
Yeah.
With Krystle, we did Krystle's
first, and then of course we've
got the five boys and- Mm-hmm
and, uh, those daughter-in-laws,
we've got great daughter-in-laws.
We've- Yeah, you do ⦠so blessed
with good daughter-in-laws.
And, uh, turned around and every one
of them was like, "Here's my colors.
I don't care if this is
some pictures I kinda like.
You just do your thing."
So it was fun doing those weddings.
Yeah.
You know, I, I enjoyed
all the kids' weddings.
Uh, I wanted to be more dad with Krystle
than- Yeah ⦠the, the, than the boys.
Than the flower.
Yeah, than the flower man or whatever.
Um, and I had floral friends that came
and did the entire reception- Nice
⦠most of the church, and- That's nice.
So it really helped me to be dad that day
and not be- Mm-hmm ⦠all over the place.
That's really a blessing.
That was a big blessing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll, I'll never forget
that, that- I've helped y'all
Valentine's Day, and that is- Yeah.
That's so, like, rewarding because you
get to deliver flo- make people happy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love doing that.
You'd ask about that
Valentine's while ago.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I don't have any one
particular thing to kind of-
Yeah ⦠clarify that while ago you ask.
Uh, I enjoy everything that I do.
Yeah.
I don't have any one particular thing.
Yeah.
Uh, the last two or three days we've
been doing funeral work like mad.
Yeah.
Today's just beenâ¦
I mean, I've been doing funeral
work since 7:30 this morning.
Yeah.
That's all I've done
all day is funeral work.
Uh, but it's rewarding
to build those pieces.
Yeah.
And we're getting to use a
lot of memorabilia stuff.
Uh- Yeah ⦠we had race car
steering wheel in a piece today
that's- Oh, that's incredible.
Yeah.
And, uh, and- It, it's just fun to
work with people's memorabilia- Mm-hmm
'cause there's a story behind it-
Mm-hmm ⦠or there's a, there's
something there that's- Yeah ⦠very
connecting to people when you're working
with their stuff, and I love that.
Yeah.
And I love setting it and watch them
come in and go, "Oh my gosh, look
what he did with," you know- Yeah.
⦠a quilt or a blanket or
a steering wheel or- Yeah
a saddle.
I mean, we've done everything.
Wow.
We've, we've done saddles on caskets, you
know, at funerals- Wow ⦠and did floral
either across them or under them or sort
of beside them or- Yeah ⦠tackle boxes.
I mean, just anything that you can do.
That's really interesting.
That is cool.
Yeah.
It makes it more
personable than just- Yeah
having flowers on something.
It certainly makes it feel more of
a memorial- Yeah ⦠and less of-
Yeah ⦠status quo kind of.
Like my dad's casket piece.
Krystle actually made
my dad's casket piece.
Mm-hmm.
And she put his Bible in there
opened up to his favorite verse.
Oh.
And so it was just-
That's really precious.
Yeah.
It was really- Anything we can
do to make it more personable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, even like with infants and children-
Mm-hmm ⦠we love using their little
blankies that maybe they would've been
wrapped in or- Yeah ⦠little stuffed
animals or anything, or special clothing.
We love- Yeah ⦠doing that 'cause
it, it makes it- And he always
puts it in there in a way that
they can take it out very easily.
Yeah, it all- Right ⦠it
all comes back out.
But it's just, it makes it so
personable to people too, and,
and I think it's comforting.
Yeah.
You know, I, I hate walking into any,
especially funerals, and it's just a
bunch of- Cold ⦠flowers and it's cold.
Yeah.
It might be it's pretty, but, uh,
and how it's displayed is a lot.
Yeah.
A lot of it.
I set a lot of funerals for the funeral
homes locally- Mm-hmm ⦠just because I
know the people and I know, I know- Yeah
⦠you know, their visual, what they like.
Yeah.
And so I'll go to the funeral home
and they're, they're, you know,
they're very grateful that we come-
Right ⦠and do that, uh, because it
makes it more personable to walk in.
And we had a funeral, uhâ¦
Are we okay to talk about all this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
People find it in- I find it interesting.
I'm sure- Well, yeah ⦠other
florists do too.
We had a funeral just a few years ago.
Precious, precious lady
here in town passed away.
Um, very well-known lady, and,
uh, she loved all that blue
Delft china and all that- Mm-hmm
pottery and all that stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And she had scads of pieces of it.
Well, the girls come in and we're
talking about Mom, and I said,
"Did she have anything special
she loved to collect or do?"
And they said, "Oh, my word.
She had 9,000 pieces of blue
duh, duh, duh, duh, duh."
And I said, "Let's use some of it."
And they're like, "You can do that?"
And I said, "Absolutely."
Well- Ended up, we built everything
at that funeral in her stuff.
Oh my gosh.
And I went to the funeral home,
and we displayed all of it, and
we moved it to First Baptist
Church, and we displayed all of it.
Wow.
And the unique thing about that is that
when you walked in, every piece of that
pottery, china, whatever it was- Mm-hmm
had a story.
Yeah.
And those girls could walk along and, "Oh,
do you remember when mom bought that?"
And dad was telling her, "You
don't need another piece."
I mean- ⦠you know, it helps, uh-
Yeah ⦠it helps the emotional part of-
Yes ⦠uh, recovery, if you wanna say
it that way- Yeah ⦠uh, through that.
But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, funerals are,
are very rewarding in some senses as
far as, you know, what you do and,
and, uh, how you present it- Right
and such, as well as weddings or any
given parties or birthdays or whatever.
Yeah.
But, um, yeah, I don't have
any one particular favorite.
I love it all, and still, 50
years later, I'm still loving it.
Mm-hmm.
That's how you know you're doing
what you're supposed to do.
People, well- Yeah.
People ask me all the time, "When
do you think about retiring?"
And I really don't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, we talk every now and then.
I, I don't know what he would do if
he was retired- No, no ⦠because
he cannot just sit at home.
No, no.
And I'm a junker.
Yeah.
So, you know, even on Sundays,
go to church, go home and
eat, go to Funky Junky.
You know, go to Beautiful
Mess, go up to Dover.
Yeah.
I hit all the spots, you know.
I justâ¦
But I'm looking, not for stuff-
Mm-hmm ⦠but if something really
speaks to me that I think, "Oh, wow."
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes I find really
cool containers- Yeah ⦠at
a really reasonable price.
I take 'em back to the shop, and we clean
them up good, and I build silks in 'em,
and people come in, they're like, "Oh my
gosh, that's the most unique container."
And I paid $2 for it- Yeah.
⦠at Funky Junky or whatever.
Yeah.
Don't tell all your secrets.
Well, I won't tell, I won't,
won't tell all of 'em.
We can edit that out a bit.
Yeah, yeah.
Take out the price there.
But, uh- Yeah.
⦠but yeah, that's, that's fun.
You spent 200 at Funky Junky.
200.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've paid $200 for a container.
Yeah.
But that's fun.
You know- Yeah ⦠that's,
that's kinda my therapy.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, this Saturday
we don't have a wedding.
It's the first weekend in months
that we have not had a wedding, and
we're actually going to Mount Ida to
talk to a cousin about her daughter's
wedding, which we've already booked,
but we're going to look at their church.
Mm-hmm.
And speaking of that, we, uh, when,
when COVID hit, we always kinda go
back to COVID, because prior to COVID,
we had quite a few church weddings.
Mm-hmm.
But when COVID hit, everything stopped,
and people got so non-complacent
with- Yeah ⦠their lives-
Mm-hmm ⦠that they quit going
to church 'cause they were afraid.
And then consequently, you know, that
just, for a lot of people, they just
kinda never went back, or if they did-
Right ⦠they just sorta went back.
Mm-hmm.
But the wedding industry, uh,
f- for our area as a whole,
weddings in churches ceased.
Mm-hmm.
And that's been Six
years ⦠six years ago Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
And this year, for the first time,
I think we have five in churches.
Wow.
Yeah.
Which we just had three back to back.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but this week we don't have
a wedding, but- Yeah ⦠next
week we're back in a church.
And so it's refreshing to see that-
Yeah ⦠some of the weddings are
going- Coming back ⦠back to churches.
Yeah.
Yeah, I really, really appreciate that.
Yeah.
And we've got some beautiful churches in
the area that really- Heck yeah, we do.
Really- We do.
Yeah ⦠decorate beautifully, or
some of them don't even need much at
all- Yeah ⦠'cause it's so pretty.
But anyway, it's good.
So whenâ¦
Before we ask our last question,
so what would be some advice
you would give to couples?
Because w- everybody's
gonna go through hard times.
Yeah.
Um, if you could give a piece of
advice to, um, younger couples.
I would say- Okay ⦠don't give up.
Now I, I feel like nowadays
it's so easy to say, "I want a
divorce," and go get a divorce.
Mm-hmm.
But don't give up.
If that's what you want, fight for it.
Yeah.
And the best way to fight's on your knees.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Really, the only way to
fight is on your knees.
That's true.
So I would say don't, don't give up.
Don't settle.
Yeah.
But fight.
That's good advice.
Yeah.
I'd, I'd agree.
Yeah.
Draw a circle.
Yeah.
That's, that is- Mm-hmm.
I bet a lot of people after they
listen to this will go out and do that.
Draw a circle in the sand or in the
dirt- Yeah ⦠or wherever you're at.
Chicken house, draw a circle
in the shavings and- Yeah
step inside and say, "God, I
dare you to get in here with me."
Mm-hmm.
"I need you.
I dare you."
Yeah.
And he's gonna tell you, "I was already
in the circle before you stepped in."
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's good.
Yeah.
It's gotta be the title.
All right.
Yeah.
That's really good.
Okay, so we asked Pam, I don't know if
it's changed, but if you, if it has,
you can, you can add it if you want to.
Um, if you could go back in time and
be part of any Bible story, besides
the crucifixion and resurrection,
'cause everybody would say that,
I feel like, um, what would you
want to go back and witness?
Being involved or not being
involved, just watching it.
You could take some
time to think about it.
Well, yeah.
Or you can use some time.
Well, no, I th- I have a good one-
Okay ⦠that just come to mind
just because- All right, go ahead.
Okay.
Yeah ⦠it's something maybe kinda
silly just because part of that
I didn't share with y'all today.
I had a dairy goat farm all
through those- Ah, okay ⦠junior
high, high school years.
Mm-hmm.
200 head.
We milked 100, 50 in the summer, winter,
50 in the spring, you know, up to summer.
Uh, I would love to have been in
the shepherd's fields- Really?
⦠with the sheep.
Really?
Yeah.
I would've been the one chasing after
that one sheep that- ⦠you know.
Yeah.
That, that would've been me.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
I, I would, I would've been
totally, totally, you know, happy
and- Yeah ⦠whatever to have
been with the shepherds and- Yeah.
Been, been- So would you
wanna be with the shepherds?
Like, would you wanna hang out
with David while he was a shepherd,
or would you rather do, like-
No ⦠shepherds that saw the- No, I'd-
proclamation about Jesus ⦠David, David.
Yeah.
Okay.
I would've been, wanted to be right
there in the middle of the sheep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, when, uh, back, back,
back story just a tiny bit, um, and
you tell me when we need to quit.
Oh, it's fine.
Uh, Dad, when Dad decided he was leaving
my mom, and I had the dairy goat farm
at that time and on that property,
um, when there was issues with Mom
and Dad, I went to the goat barn.
Yeah.
And I would sit with the goats, and that
was my therapy, was just, you know, up
there praying- Yeah ⦠or whatever,
uh, talking to the goats, you know.
Yeah.
Just wishing, you know, "Okay,
if you're leaving, just leave."
I mean, you know, I was mad
at him and- Mm-hmm ⦠I was
protecting Mom and mad at Dad.
And- Yeah ⦠um, you know, and God has
a funny way of turning that all around
because my dad, we went through so much
with my dad over a period of years and,
um, uh, he had numerous wives and numerous
girlfriends, and, uh, I have brothers and
sisters outside of biological, and- Mm-hmm
I'm aware of them, and some of them-
Yeah ⦠were close and very close.
Um, but I about to lost my
train of thought there, what I
was gonna say about all that.
Uh- No problem.
Yeah.
Oh, what happened was here I am
not even speaking to my dad over a
period of seven, eight, 10 years.
Mm-hmm.
Didn't care 'cause I was so upset with
him of what he had done to my mom.
And as it turned out, my dad's last wife
left him, and I went over to check on him.
He lived down around Waldron,
and I went over to check on
him, and it was a disaster.
And I said, "Dad, what's
all these bills and mail?"
And, "Well, I just haven't got to them."
So long story short, over all those
period of years of no connection,
God put us back together, and
we moved him to Russellville.
Mm-hmm.
And I took care of him.
Mm-hmm.
And my mom even, during this time, one
time I was over visiting her and she said,
"Can I ask you something about your dad?"
And I said-- 'cause she never talked
about my dad And I said, "Sure."
And she said, "Did you ever dream that
you'd be the one taking care of him?"
And I said, "No Because all those
years of what he had done to her,
I was so bitter about it that I,
I didn't speak to him for years.
Yeah.
Uh, but through those five
years that he was here- Mm-hmm.
Uh, he died real unexpectedly one day.
I was actually on the phone talking
to him, and he was washing dishes.
Oh.
And he told me he didn't feel good.
Oh my gosh.
And I said, "What's the matter?"
And he said, "I don't know."
He said, "My back's hurting really bad."
And in a matter of 20, 30 minutes,
I had an ambulance there, and within
five, six hours maybe- Yeah ⦠he died.
Wow.
Yeah.
Uh, had blood clots, went through his
liver and kidneys, they determined.
Oh.
Yeah.
Wow.
But, you know, I had a
lot of peace about that.
I know.
Uh, just because he and I
had mended a lot of fences.
That's good.
You know, it was just, you knowâ¦
But, um, yeah, it was, it
was quite a, quite an ordeal.
It's interesting how God
can bring stuff full circle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, bring it back around.
Restore.
Yeah.
'Cause I, I would've never dreamed or
thought- Mm-mm ⦠that I would've beenâ¦
Because when he told us that he wanted
to leave Waldron, he lived on the lake
down there, that he wanted to leave,
my youngest brother wanted to take him.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, that would not
have been a good situation.
And I was okay, and Pam and I
talked about it, you know, if he,
that's what he wants to do- Mm-hmm.
Exactly ⦠I, I'm fine
with that, you know?
Yeah.
But then God kept tugging at
my heart about it, and I'm
like, "Oh, crud, here we go."
And I told Pam, I said, "If
he moves up there," I said,
"that's gonna be the worst."
You know, my dad had a little
bit of money, and I thought,
"That's just gonna be the worst."
Mm-hmm.
And so, I, that's when I went
down there to talk to him, just
to- Mm-hmm ⦠say my piece.
And when I finished talking to him about
all that, he looked at me and said, "I
actually know that you're right-" Mm-hmm
"⦠about that, and I don't need to do that."
'Cause he was, he was going.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
He'd made up his mind, but I just
wanted to tell him what I thought
about- Yeah ⦠that situation.
And, uh, but he agreed,
so we moved him over here.
Yeah.
Had his own little house, and,
you know, he lived by himself,
and he was, he was fine.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
But, um, but never would've dreamed
through all those years that- Is that the
one Krystle's told me she's checked on?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, got it.
Krystle was so good.
When we were out of town, Krystle
would go by and check on him,
and he loved the kids, you know?
Yeah.
And it was funny because we, when he
passed away, we moved all of his stuff
into a storage building, and we'd
been going through it when we could.
And not too long ago, we were
going through that stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And we were finding pictures
after pictures after pictures,
and I was like, "How did Dad get
all these pictures of the kids?"
And I guess we gave them to him, but- Yeah
⦠we had to have, but didn't realize it-
Mm-hmm ⦠I guess, through the years.
And I'm sure a lot of it, he had moved
from Fayetteville area where he lived.
He had- Mm-hmm ⦠moved those to Waldron.
He'd lived at Waldron for years,
and- Yeah ⦠and then he moved
them to Brusly, and I just didn't
realize he had all those pictures.
Mm-hmm.
So we've got boxes of pictures of
kids when they were little bitty that
we'd sent to him 'cause we were always
good even though we weren't speaking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We would keep him in the loop of the kids
and, you know, and such and, uh, but,
you know, my dad was one of those, too.
We'd go see him.
When we finally kinda started
going back seeing him a little bit
once or twice a year, we would go
in July and he'd have Christmas.
Mm.
Mm.
"Oh, I have the Christmas
gifts for the kids," you know.
Yep.
And we're like, "Now, Dad, it's
July and you're," you know.
Yep.
Christmas rolls around,
he never mentioned it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you go in July and
they were wrapped gifts.
Yeah.
That's hilarious.
Yeah.
It is hilarious.
But, you know, that was just my dad,
and you just had to know that, you
know, he meant well, but he never
got around to doing anything- Yeah
on time when it should've been.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, uh, he loved to dance.
Really?
I got him going to the, to the
senior citizens and he'd go, he
wanted to go to the dances, and
I hauled him to all those dances.
Oh my gosh.
And, and 'cause he could, he could dance.
Was it two-step?
I can't remember.
I can't remember.
Or waltz?
No, maybe the waltz.
I can't rem- I think it
might've been the waltz.
Maybe the waltz.
And he was the only one
there that knew how to waltz.
Well, all them little
widow women were like, "Mr.
Bob can dance."
I bet they loved it.
Oh, they loved it.
And they were, "Could you teach me?"
And then he even hadâ¦
I would go a few times just- Mm-hmm
to kinda, 'cause I'm like-
Like, what's happening here?
⦠'cause I didn't even know he danced.
Yeah.
And so I would go and I would sit back
and watch and thinking, I mean, he, you
know, he can move around that floor.
He can hang out.
Yeah.
Okay.
And some of the men would even come
up and say, "Are you Bob's son?"
I was like, "Yes, sir, I am."
"Oh, your dad taught me and my
wife how to do the waltz and toâ¦"
I mean, gods up he- Wow.
I mean, he was kind of- That's
crazy ⦠the, the teacher
of waltz over there, yeah.
That's funny.
But, uh, that was prior to COVID.
When COVID hit, we wouldn't let him
go for the longest 'cause- Yeah.
You gotta be careful.
And then after, even I think after COVID,
he, they quit doing them for a long time.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Just because they didn't want all
those little people connecting-
Right ⦠you know, 'cause they still
wanted to go, but- Mm-hmm ⦠you
know, he got dressed one night and I
went over to his house, check on him.
I was like, "What are you doing?"
"Well, I was going to dance."
"No, you're not."
This was early on COVID.
Yeah.
And I was like, "No, Dad."
That's funny.
"No, you can't do that," you know?
So anyway.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, this was very, very good.
Did your story change?
No.
Okay.
I would still go- Okay,
yeah ⦠watch Esther.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
Okay.
Well, thank y'all so much-
Yeah ⦠for having me.
Thank you.
It was so good.
Thank you.
We've enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I have too.
Of course I have.
Y'all were- I know ⦠y'all
were a blessing.
Yeah.
I mean, I reallyâ¦
And if you ever wanna come back.
Yeah.
If you have another
chapter you wanna share.
Okay.
You know?
And I, I mean I mean that, 'cause
you're our- Yeah ⦠you're
our second-timer here.
Okay.
First second-timer.
First second-timer.
Okay.
I'm sure I can think of something.
Yeah.
There's all kinds.
She can tell you about travel.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, 100%.
If you, if, I think I said this last
time, but if you need a travel agent-
Maybe, listen ⦠you need to call Pam.
Maybe we need to do like a
bonus episode of all about like
travel and hacks and stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'd love that.
Me too.
Yeah.
Be fun.
Anyway, well, thank y'all so much.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Thank y'all.
Bye.
Bye.
That was fun, girls