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In this podcast hosted by the trailblazing founder of RE/MAX, Dave Liniger, we discover the secrets of those who have overcome challenges, pushed past their own limits, and experienced the best life has to offer.
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You.
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Unknown
You.
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Speaker 2
I'm your host, Steve Lineker. And in each episode, we dive deep into the stories and strategies of extraordinary individuals who have faced adversity with unwavering ambition and grit. Today, I'm thrilled to have Dorie Clark, a leading expert in personal branding.
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Speaker 2
Join me for a compelling conversation that didn't sound right. I'll try it again. Okay. Today, I am thrilled to have Dorie Clark, a leading expert in personal branding. Join me for a compelling conversation. Dorie has worked with scores that Doris worked with some major clients like Deloitte, Boeing, Sony and Google. Dorie will share invaluable insights on how building a strong personal brand contributes to ambition, and the pivotal role grit plays in sustaining that brand.
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Speaker 2
Without further ado, let's jump into this exciting and enriching discussion with Dorie Clark.
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Speaker 2
Dori, in your work on personal branding, how does building a strong personal brand contribute to an individual's ambition? And what role does grit play in sustaining that brand?
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Speaker 3
I love that question. And you diving in with that, Dave, because I think it's so critical. Ultimately, your your personal brand is just, you know, kind of a fancy language for what people think of you or how they think of you. And of course, we all as as people have hopes or wishes about that. We'd like to be seen in a certain way by others.
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Speaker 3
But oftentimes there's a gap between how we would like to be seen by the world and how we actually are seen by the world. And there's a variety of things, that cause that sometimes it's that, other people just aren't getting it. they're they're missing something. Sometimes we're failing to transmit the information properly that we that we think we are.
00:02:08:16 - 00:02:32:15
Speaker 3
And it's important to get to the bottom of that, because as long as people don't fully appreciate who you are and what you're capable of, your opportunities are going to be limited. You're not going to be tapped for the promotions or the opportunities that you otherwise, could have been. And so I think grit really comes into play here because honestly, it can be a frustrating process, you know.
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Speaker 3
You know, you can do something. Why aren't other people getting it? it becomes the kind of thing where it would be easy to to quit or to give up or to lash out and say, oh, you know, they're all stupid. They don't get me. But instead, I think it's really a process where we have to start with first principles and say, okay, if they're if they're not getting me for some reason, I need to really solve this problem.
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Speaker 3
I need to figure this out because until I do, it's going to be hindering my ability to make the contribution I really want to.
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Speaker 2
That makes a lot of sense. Dory, you've successfully navigated various career transitions. How did grit and ambition play a role in those transitions, and what advice do you have for individuals considering a significant career change?
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Speaker 3
Well, thank you, Dave. I think for for almost everybody that has been around the block a few times, you really have to, embrace grit and resilience. And for me, you know, there were there were early examples and then, you know, frankly, it kind of continues. So I think we'd all like to believe that, that's, you know, there's some early setbacks and then you get past them and then it's smooth sailing.
00:03:48:16 - 00:04:15:09
Speaker 3
but the truth is, we we always hit headwinds, wherever we're going. Early on, one of the challenges that I. That I faced and had to overcome was it really took me, frankly, quite a while to find my way into my ultimate career path. I thought I was going to be a professor. And so I got a master's degree, and I was going to go on to doctoral studies, but I ended up getting turned down by every single doctoral program I applied to.
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Speaker 3
So I had to come up with a different plan. So I said, okay, I'll become a journalist. And I did, and that was great. And then after a year as a journalist, I got laid off and I couldn't I couldn't get any other journalism jobs because the industry was contracting. So I then went to work in politics and all my canned candidates lost.
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Speaker 3
So I was I was having some trouble there. So, you know, ultimately, you have to pick yourself back up. I mean, there were exigent circumstances. I, you know, I was in my early 20s. I'm like, okay, I need to pay some bills. I've got to figure this out. So I did become kind of scrappy in terms of picking up freelance writing gigs and things like that.
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Speaker 3
but ultimately, as I talk about in my book, The Long Game, overcoming obstacles isn't just, a nice story that we tell at, like, you know, a decade long, you know, arm's length of, oh, let me tell you about the hard times. And now everything is great. even even in recent years, there are opportunities that I've wanted that haven't come to fruition.
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Speaker 3
And I think it's important to be aware and to be honest about that, because if we're not, if we're not experiencing, some walls or some rejections, it probably means that we're a little too complacent and we're not reaching enough.
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Speaker 2
I do a lot want that. early in my career, I was turned off by the concept of networking. at the time, there were people, writing books and saying, put this person in your bucket, and then you've got this contact if you ever need it. And just sounded so funny to me. And yet, as I matured as a business person and started acknowledging the power of networking, I, I, I could have grown so much faster if I had harnessed that.
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Speaker 2
So networking is often emphasized in professional development. How can individuals leverage grit to build and maintain meaningful professional relationships? And how has networking contribute to your own ambition?
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Speaker 3
Well, I love that you're, you know, you've got you've got you've got the through line of your podcast, which I think is so important because grit is an overlooked factor, I think, in networking. I moved to New York in 2014, and, you know, I knew some people there, but I didn't have a robust network by any stretch.
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Speaker 3
I really had to build it. And something that I realized early on, which was, you know, both annoying and humbling because we would like people to be better. Is that it took a minimum, I would say on average of three invitations extended, sometimes up to five invitations extended, for people to reciprocate those, those invitations. you know, people are busy and that is that is true.
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Speaker 3
And many people don't think of themselves. They don't really identify as an organizer or a connector. You know, somebody who who does things. those are all just realities. I wish it weren't true because honestly, I find it rude. I, I think that people's mothers would be embarrassed, of them, but, but I found that it usually took 3 to 5 times of me extending invitations to people to to dinners, to events, to gatherings.
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Speaker 3
for them, if, if they ever did, to extend an invitation back. But that is what's necessary if you actually want to build friendships with people. And so you have to just kind of deal with that and say, you know what those are? Those are the rules of the game. And if I actually really want to get to know this person, it's not that I'm being insulted.
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Speaker 3
It's not that I'm being dissed. It's that people are busy. This is this is what I need to do to build the relationship. So it's a lot of grit and a lot of, humility, I think, along the way. How about how about you, Dave? I'm curious how you ultimately did kind of overcome your initial distaste around networking.
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Speaker 3
What what snapped it into place for you or what changed?
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Speaker 2
It was, dozens of events that I finally grew up and said, I get this. for instance, one of the NASCAR drivers was critically injured with, spinal cord injuries, traumatic brain injury. And, NASCAR takes care of its own. The they know it's a dangerous sport. And, they were trying to get them into a particular hospital, and, they were waiting lists 60 some people to get into that very, very limited ability.
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Speaker 2
And the fact that, I had contacts at that hospital, which was interesting. my wife had been injured in a plane crash and with a traumatic brain injury in 1983. And, they were miracle workers, and, we fallen in love with the organization. supported them very wholeheartedly. lots of donations, obviously, but, just a lot of support.
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Speaker 2
And the simple act of. I could help this fellow driver by making an introduction. And the people at that hospital were involved close enough to me that they said, this is a very serious case. We can reevaluate it and take him. And that started happening to me was the breadth and scale of Remax. And of course, now 140,000 agents nodded in ten countries or whatever.
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Speaker 2
The contacts are limitless. And, I've just realized that people like to help other people, and they need something that they really have to have. And so I don't see it as using somebody. I see it as everything is a relationship and relationship building ends up with both parties succeeding.
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Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that's really powerful. And I, I find it telling, of course, that the example that you cited is a is a wave of you using your network to help someone else rather than helping yourself. you know, that's the transactional part that I think throws off a lot of people. But when we understand that part of the reason we build networks is in moments like this where you actually can help someone in need, through the relationships you've built, that's, that's quite powerful.
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Speaker 2
You know, you know, the business landscape is continually changing. And in the real estate industry right now, it's it's unbelievable changes happening. basically on a daily basis. How can individuals cultivate grit necessary to adapt to change and embrace a new opportunities and the changes that brings about.
00:11:05:07 - 00:11:28:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, it certainly feels like change is coming fast. I mean, we have, you know, macro things like AI disrupting everything. We have industry specific things like, you know, all of the all of the court issues around real estate. I mean, you know, whatever industry you're you're in, none of us is immune from, from developments that are or sometimes head snapping.
00:11:28:04 - 00:11:54:01
Speaker 3
And so it is really, interesting and sometimes problematic to figure out how to, how to navigate in an environment like that. I had a memorable experience once, a number of years ago. I was, it was about ten years ago, and I was at this book fair, supporting my my first book, which had come out, which is called Reinventing You.
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Speaker 3
And I was, I was manning the booth and there was a woman who came up and was browsing, and I don't think she realized that I was the author of the book. And, so she starts, you know, flipping through, reinventing you and, and, you know, reading the jacket cover. And at a certain point, you know, after maybe 30s, she sort of flings it down in disgust and says, well, I'm over 50.
00:12:20:05 - 00:12:47:16
Speaker 3
It's too late for me. And she just sort of stormed off. I'm like, oh my goodness, okay, you you have some stuff going on because of course, you know, if you are over 50 actuarially, you have decades and decades and decades of your life left. And to say that, you know, oh, it's over for me. There's nothing left for me is, is just such a, such a terrible, defeatist attitude.
00:12:47:18 - 00:13:22:07
Speaker 3
And so I think that we need to to, you know, straddle a couple of realities. I mean, one is that the way that we've done things in the past probably, probably will change. and you know, in some cases needs to change. Maybe, maybe there are better ways of, of doing things. but it's also true, you know, that if we, if we hold it lightly, if we understand that, you know, of course we can figure it out, you know, I mean, it's it's ridiculous to pin our identity to a specific way of doing things.
00:13:22:07 - 00:13:55:08
Speaker 3
You know, I, I understand it's true that there are some architects, for instance, that, you know, the the pride of their life was their ability to hand draw things. And once computerization came in, well, you know, I don't want to do that. That's ridiculous. of course those are architects that are not working now. but if we hold, if we hold the techniques lightly and are able to step back and say, yes, but you can create more, you can create faster, you can create different things, and you're still creating the strategy behind these amazing new buildings.
00:13:55:10 - 00:14:04:22
Speaker 3
you know, it enables you to, to preserve your identity and maybe even do more. so I think I think that's really the idea is how can we not cling too much.
00:14:05:00 - 00:14:21:07
Speaker 2
To take a little step further, speaking of reinventing you, how can individuals summon the grit to reinvent themselves professionally? How do they find the the strength or capacity to say, okay, I can change?
00:14:21:09 - 00:14:51:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, grit is is so important here because, you know, one of the one of the things that I unearthed when I was researching reinventing you, that makes sense, I guess, once you articulate it, but was nonetheless a bit of a surprise for me when I kept hearing these stories was oftentimes when we're in the midst of a reinvention, we assume, just, you know, kind of casually that the people closest to us will be the biggest supporters of our reinvention.
00:14:51:07 - 00:15:12:07
Speaker 3
And it turns out that that's often not the case. you know, a stranger is not invested. A stranger doesn't care. Oh, okay. Dave, you know, you you are you know, you're a businessman. Oh, you're an ass car driver. Oh, you're an astronaut. You know, whatever. They don't care. but your friends and family are are very invested, and they often can be the most critical.
00:15:12:07 - 00:15:35:08
Speaker 3
And that's really hard to overcome. So I do think that it's important to be aware of that, because otherwise we can sometimes be blindsided when the people that we thought would be allies and advocates actually turn out to be, critics, you know, not out of malice, but but because they think somehow that, you know, they're helping us or they're being devil's advocates in useful ways.
00:15:35:10 - 00:15:54:22
Speaker 2
I understand that, you know, setting ambitious goals is a key aspect of personal and professional development. How do you recommend individuals set and pursue goals that stretch their capabilities, and at the same time, keep them realistic?
00:15:55:00 - 00:16:16:13
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's it's certainly true that, we can very easily overwhelm ourselves if we, you know, set the, the moonshot goal that then we keep never actually, attaining. One of the things that that has been important to me with my own, principles around goal setting is just literally making sure that there aren't too many of them.
00:16:16:17 - 00:16:40:07
Speaker 3
Now, you know, I know that's sort of a standard thing, you know, I'll limit them. You can't do 100 things, but I mean sharply limit it. specifically, every about I try to do goals in six month increments rather than 12 month increments. because for me, that allows me a chance to either voluntarily re-up on the goal if there's more to be done, or if I want to continue with it or to change to something else.
00:16:40:12 - 00:17:02:12
Speaker 3
But ultimately, aside from what I would call the sort of day to day maintenance activities that have to happen, you know, answering emails or paying bills or things like that, I try to set one personal and one professional goal per six month period and and that's it. You know, I would say that that that becomes the focus above.
00:17:02:12 - 00:17:26:17
Speaker 3
And beyond the day to day tasks. And so it might be, you know, doing a relaunch of a course, or it might be finishing a draft of a book or something like that, but all of the discretionary time and energy goes to that task and nothing else. That's not to say you can't ever do other goals, but it really helps to to put on the blinders so you know where you're focusing in this time period.
00:17:26:19 - 00:17:31:08
Speaker 3
I'm curious for you, Dave, how do you think about goal setting in your world?
00:17:31:10 - 00:17:41:10
Speaker 2
I think it's, systematic. I first figured it out by, famous by the name of Thinking Grow Rich.
00:17:41:12 - 00:17:42:09
Speaker 3
Yes.
00:17:42:11 - 00:18:05:20
Speaker 2
And I've read it 50 some times and 50 years. Wow. half of the book is worthless, but, a few pages are absolutely worth their weight in gold. And it was basically, you have to set yourself an achievable goal, and the word is achievable. the second thing is, write it down, make it an obsession.
00:18:05:22 - 00:18:30:17
Speaker 2
build a blueprint. get yourself a mastermind group that will encourage you on your Devers. periodically follow up and say, where am I going? How am I achieving this goal? And just basically never, ever quit. And it's an interesting aspect not to put the light on me. I want to interview you, but to put it in perspective.
00:18:30:19 - 00:18:55:22
Speaker 2
when I woke up coming out of my coma after three months, I had the mental ability of a six year old, and, the psychologist would ask me, do you know where you're at? What city? What's the name of the hospital? do you know who the president of the United States is? And, I started getting it a little bit more and more, and eventually cheated.
00:18:56:00 - 00:19:29:03
Speaker 2
I put the answers on the ceiling with my kids and lay in the bed, and I knew where they were. I think the doctors knew I was cheating, but that's okay. So I'm laying there and they did all these nerve tests and they said, we're sorry to tell you this, but it's impossible at your age. You're never going to get out of the condition you're in and that we're here to teach you that there's always hope, but we're going to teach you how to cope with what has happened to you.
00:19:29:05 - 00:19:52:12
Speaker 2
And I said, nonsense, get this straight. I'm going to walk out of this hospital. And they said, the nerve tests show you never will. Wow. I said, I don't care what the nerve tests. Oh, yeah, I'm telling you, I have succeeded at everything I've tried in my life. And I failed many times on the way, but I never quit.
00:19:52:14 - 00:20:16:05
Speaker 2
And you're going to kiss my butt? Yeah, and say congratulations. I worked harder than anybody in that hospital in history. And they they, they still brag about it. I went through so much pain. I had to figure things out. They had to do me with braces, whatever it was. But the day did come. I went on the quad.
00:20:16:07 - 00:20:36:08
Speaker 2
I came back for, outpatients. six days a week, ten hours a day. And I worked out every night at home and every day on Sunday. And the day came when I started to be able to walk with double crutches. And then I could walk with a cane, with braces, and then I could walk with a cane with no braces.
00:20:36:10 - 00:20:58:13
Speaker 2
And I threw a party at the local steakhouse, 200. And some of my caregivers had, including eight sets of different doctors. And I was in my electric wheelchair, and I said, I owe you an apology. My language was uncalled for. I'm a bit rough on the edges, and I promised you that I would walk out of that hospital.
00:20:58:15 - 00:21:13:21
Speaker 2
And they all nodded and smiled and and I said, well, I didn't make it by the time I got out, but I can walk across this room now, and got up with my cane and walked across the room, and the doctors cried.
00:21:13:22 - 00:21:15:21
Speaker 3
Wow, that's amazing Dave.
00:21:15:23 - 00:21:46:22
Speaker 2
So when you start talking about goal setting, that's that's the difficult part is finding that mentoring group that will help you. And if my spinal cord had been totally separated, I wouldn't walk. It's just scientific fact. But as it was, I had extraordinary nerve damage and I worked my way through the pain. So many ambitious individuals grapple with imposter syndrome.
00:21:47:00 - 00:21:56:16
Speaker 2
How can one overcome self-doubt and continue pursuing ambitious goals, especially when they have these feelings of inadequacy?
00:21:56:18 - 00:22:21:18
Speaker 3
So I'm always fascinated by imposter syndrome because you know what? What tends to cause it, or exacerbated at least, is looking around at people who are further ahead than you, people that you admire and say, oh, you know, they're so amazing. They're doing so well. I could never do that. And it's it's true. There there are many amazing people doing amazing things.
00:22:21:20 - 00:22:42:11
Speaker 3
But the first thing to recognize is that most typically, the people that you're looking at and admiring have actually been doing it much longer than you. It's really not fair to compare yourself if you've been doing something for a year or two to somebody who's been doing something for 20 years, you will be better. In 20 years, you will absolutely be better.
00:22:42:13 - 00:23:00:19
Speaker 3
but it's it's a tough comparison when you're trying to go head to head with somebody who has so much more experience on you. But I think that what we often forget and, and I think, you know, for me, I find this to be kind of helpful is okay, there are some people out there that, you know, certainly are probably better than you.
00:23:00:19 - 00:23:19:02
Speaker 3
Okay, let's acknowledge that there are 7 billion people in the world. There are a lot of people that are worse than you, and they're actually doing just fine. I mean, I think most of us have probably, you know, seen a speaker or read an article in a magazine or something like that and said, I can do so much better than that.
00:23:19:04 - 00:23:36:12
Speaker 3
And the truth is, you probably can. And so the fact that that person is up on the stage, or the fact that that person made it into the into the magazine actually is a great sign that you are capable of it, too. If they can do it and they're not that good, then of course you can do it.
00:23:36:15 - 00:23:51:03
Speaker 3
So I think it's important to realize you don't have to be the best in the universe. Like don't set an impossible standard, but you're probably pretty good, and you're probably better than a lot of other people who are succeeding. So let's lean into that instead.
00:23:51:05 - 00:24:04:06
Speaker 2
Awesome. You recognize as the thought leader in your field, how does someone build a thought leadership platform, and how can grit sustain that position to get to that point?
00:24:04:08 - 00:24:31:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, you're touching on something near and dear to my heart, Dave. I've spent a lot of time really trying to study the question of how we can become recognized experts in our field, because I think it's it's so important. I mean, there's always a push toward commoditization. And if you are just, you know, if you're perceived in the marketplace is just one of many, you know, one of many coaches, one of many speakers, one of many realtors, one of many, you know, whatever.
00:24:31:13 - 00:25:07:10
Speaker 3
Then you might be able to do okay for yourself, but you're never really going to do that. Well, because, your, your ability to earn income or to have business come in is, is just going to be kind of luck based. It's not it's not going to be people seeking you out if you're just one of many, if you want people to seek you out and have business development, be easy and fun and has people coming to you without you having to work so painfully hard at it, what's necessary is to cultivate an expert reputation in the marketplace.
00:25:07:12 - 00:25:27:11
Speaker 3
And so I, I've, you know, spent a lot of years developing a recognized expert methodology and briefly, it consists primarily of three things. Three levers that we have to, you know, push. the first one is content creation. Somehow we have to share our ideas publicly so that other people know what they are. That could be writing a book.
00:25:27:11 - 00:25:46:12
Speaker 3
It could be doing a podcast like this. It could be a video series, it could be speeches. It doesn't really matter. But what matters is that you're sharing your ideas publicly so that people know that they're yours, and they know how you think. Number two, as we were talking about earlier, is your network, because you need advocates, you need people, you know, who are ambassadors spreading the word.
00:25:46:14 - 00:26:07:22
Speaker 3
You also need people who are smart and out there in the field who can help make your ideas better. And the third piece is social proof, which is a term in the psychology world, which basically means, what is the credibility that you are manifesting at a glance so that busy people can understand that you are worth listening to.
00:26:08:00 - 00:26:22:14
Speaker 3
It could be affiliations. It could be, you know, your sort of success stories, it could be endorsements you have, it could be awards you've won. But somehow you need to be able to show people, all right, you know he knows what he's talking about. Let's let's listen to him. Let's give him a chance here.
00:26:22:16 - 00:26:29:08
Speaker 2
So I get away with that because everybody says, well, he's been in the business for 55 years.
00:26:29:10 - 00:26:34:13
Speaker 3
That's right, that's right. I mean, experience is a form of social proof, that's for sure.
00:26:34:18 - 00:26:48:11
Speaker 2
For sure. grit often involves a willingness to learn and improve. How do you approach feedback and how can individuals use constructive criticism to fuel their ambition?
00:26:48:13 - 00:27:16:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, this is such an important thing because of course, you know, nobody comes out of the womb knowing everything. We we have to get feedback so that we can get better. For me, I think the most important distinction is understanding who we should be listening to and who we shouldn't. Because you can often get really off course because, you know, I mean, there's a lot of people out there and everybody's got their opinion, but oftentimes it comes with an agenda.
00:27:16:04 - 00:27:35:06
Speaker 3
You know, maybe it's sort of a frenemy type person who kind of wants to tweak you or mess with you a little bit. And so a sort of typical rule of thumb that I have is if you didn't ask for the advice, then you don't have to listen. You don't have to listen to every rando on the internet, you know, they probably don't know what they're talking about.
00:27:35:08 - 00:27:59:07
Speaker 3
But if the advice is coming from someone where you you asked for it, and or they or someone that you respect, you admire, and you understand that they actually have standing to offer that advice, you know, okay, you want to be an entrepreneur. Well, you know that Dave has been a very successful entrepreneur. That that probably stands to reason he would know something about it.
00:27:59:07 - 00:28:17:20
Speaker 3
All right, I will I will listen to Dave. you know, I, I think that those are the criteria we should be using. Otherwise we, we tell ourselves up in knots, when we are just focused on listening to everything from everyone. How do you think about feedback, Dave?
00:28:17:22 - 00:28:41:21
Speaker 2
when I first started Remax, unfortunately, I did not have a formal education. I proved myself, as a very successful salesperson and, I think fairly decent at leading. And so those two roles were okay. I didn't know how to run a business. I was going to build the largest real estate company in the world.
00:28:41:23 - 00:29:08:21
Speaker 2
I believed it, it came through, and so, I knew I needed an assistant. And so I looked for an administrative vice president that was, formal education. Had some experience to, you know, leased the offices, hire the secretaries and bookkeepers, set up chart of accounts and accounting systems and, all those things. And I found a godsend.
00:29:08:21 - 00:29:29:11
Speaker 2
My, Gail Main was her name. She was the 28th person I interviewed. she was brilliant, charismatic, very, very confident in her ability. I knew five minutes in the interview. This is the one. And so it ended up, I lied to her. I told her I was going to build the largest estate company in the world.
00:29:29:12 - 00:29:48:06
Speaker 2
By golly, she could run it someday if she wanted to. And, we built it as a team and a thousand things. It works. So we didn't have overnight success. But the end result was, we were partners for ten years, and then we've been married for 40 some years.
00:29:48:07 - 00:29:49:23
Speaker 3
It's a very good partnership.
00:29:50:01 - 00:30:15:03
Speaker 2
And the marriage came after the partnership, but, we were doing so poorly and the business was trying to put us industries trying to put us out of business, that we were failing. And I sat down with my managers. They were all 20 years older than me. And I said, one woman, six guys. I said, be honest with me.
00:30:15:05 - 00:30:35:21
Speaker 2
We love the concept. We're doing okay, we're struggling, but we're not making it. What do you like best about the company you used to work for? What did you least like? What do you like best about Remax? What do you least like? What do you like best about working with me as a leader? What do you least like?
00:30:35:23 - 00:31:00:04
Speaker 2
Teach me, tell me. Show me. Through your maturity and your experience. Show me how to grow up to be the leader you want me to be. And it was brutal. You better have thick skin. But I asked for it. It wasn't crammed down my throat. Yes, and I didn't just ask for it and say, okay, okay. I wrote it down and I said, okay, this is what I got to fix.
00:31:00:06 - 00:31:24:13
Speaker 2
I can't fix 15 things at one time. What's the priority today? And because of that, I picked up in this continual feedback from the entire company for the entire time we've been here. And I'll tell you right now, every single great idea that has come out of this company has come from the field and hasn't come from the ivory tower.
00:31:24:15 - 00:31:39:06
Speaker 2
These are the frontline soldiers. They're the ones doing the job, and they're the ones that will bring you the ideas. Now, some are wacky. You've got to judge and figure that out as the owner, but some are absolutely brilliant.
00:31:39:08 - 00:31:42:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's great. I love that.
00:31:42:11 - 00:31:56:11
Speaker 2
final question. What advice do you have for emerging professionals looking to cultivate grit and ambition early in their careers, and how can they position themselves for long term success?
00:31:56:13 - 00:32:22:06
Speaker 3
I, I, I especially appreciate that question. in about an hour, after we conclude our, our conversation, I'm actually, doing another webinar where I'm presenting to an, to a group of sort of young emerging executive coaches about exactly this topic. So it's, it's certainly dear to my heart. My most recent book is is called The Long Game How to Be a Long Term Thinker in a Short Term world.
00:32:22:08 - 00:32:50:07
Speaker 3
And I know from spending a lot of time thinking about that question that it's not easy because pretty much all of the of the, the forces of the universe are pushing us in the direction of short termism, you know, short term actions, short term results, because it's something that gives you a result, even if it's not a great result or even if it's not the result that you want, it gives you a result in the near term.
00:32:50:07 - 00:33:23:03
Speaker 3
You can see what it does, but it's also true that for some of the most important things that we want, you know, building a reputation for integrity, building a lasting career that leaves a legacy, building successful relationships and perhaps, of course, you know, building something like you with a, with a large entrepreneurial venture or rising, in the ranks of a company, you know, whatever it is, these are things that just literally can't happen overnight.
00:33:23:05 - 00:33:51:06
Speaker 3
there's there's not a way to make the crops grow faster, even if we want them to. They just kind of do take time. And so for younger professionals, I think the the good news is that, if you have a pretty long horizon on your career, you can afford to take risks, you can afford to take bigger swings, because if it doesn't pan out, you know, that's too bad, but you have time to try something else and to make it, to make it work.
00:33:51:08 - 00:34:15:08
Speaker 3
But some of the best goals that you can aspire toward are ones that that take some time. And so being willing to invest for that means that if we keep our eyes on the prize, you actually can have, kind of an amazing payoff, whether it is literally, a financial one or a, an emotional or reputational or impact payoff.
00:34:15:10 - 00:34:24:07
Speaker 3
And so understanding that can can help us make the right decisions even when there's a lot of pressure for short term thinking.
00:34:24:09 - 00:34:56:15
Speaker 2
Wow, that's awesome. Adoring. You're a fascinating person to talk to. I could listen to you for hours. I've only read part of one of your books, but I'm going to look at the long game. I'm fighting a problem right now. I'm a public company, and, often the board of directors and, everybody on Wall Street wants to look at quarterly results and not of what you can accomplish if you make some sacrifices here for, wild success two years from now.
00:34:56:17 - 00:34:59:23
Speaker 2
So I will study your book and I may call you back.
00:35:00:01 - 00:35:16:00
Speaker 3
I love it, Dave. Thank you so much. I'll just mention for anyone who wants to go even deeper, I have a free resource, which is the long game Strategic Thinking self-assessment. You can get it at Dorie clark.com/the long game. And Dave it's such a treat to get to speak with you today. Thank you.
00:35:16:02 - 00:35:17:15
Speaker 2
Thank you. Best of luck.