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In the first episode of “Nobody Listens to Chasta,” Chasta and her husband John introduce their background as parents and longtime operators of Stage Door Dance Productions, then discuss why trophies, labels, and constant validation can undermine resilience, authenticity, and critical thinking by prioritizing product over process. Chasta shares how leaving dance competitions around 2013–2016 cost them most of their team but led to a later enrollment increase, and how that experience inspired her to write “Trash the Trophies” during the 2018 football season, published in 2020 and later seen as relevant beyond dance. They connect trophy-chasing to social media dopamine, argue rewards can be used to avoid discomfort, and suggest praising effort, persistence, and skill-building, normalizing losing, and using questions to promote growth.
00:00 Trophies and Validation
00:56 Meet Chasta and John
01:40 Brunch Advice Gone Wrong
05:07 Listening and Spirited Dialogue
06:02 Kids Today and Tech Shift
08:06 Burn It Down Rebuild Better
10:50 Pay to Play Dance Culture
17:54 Writing Trust the Trophies
19:18 Pandemic Book Launch
19:44 Beyond Dance Pressure
20:18 Trusting the Process
20:56 Algorithmic Validation Trap
22:35 Intrinsic Motivation Matters
26:12 Habits and Executive Function
28:12 Resilience Over Rewards
32:21 Normalize Losing Tips
32:53 Coach John Building Blocks
36:25 Final Takeaways and Farewell
Creators and Guests
What is Nobody Listens to Chasta?
What happens when someone says the things everyone else is thinking—but nobody is willing to say out loud?
Nobody Listens to Chasta is a counterculture podcast hosted by entrepreneur, speaker, and author Chasta Hamilton. With humor, candor, and unapologetic honesty, Chasta tackles the uncomfortable topics shaping modern life—from youth sports trophies and toxic achievement culture to entrepreneurship, parenting, grief, addiction, and the pressure to conform.
Drawing from her experience building Stage Door Dance Productions, founding Girls Geared for Greatness, and writing books like Trash the Trophies and Handle the Horrible, Chasta challenges systems that no longer serve us and explores better ways to live, lead, and raise the next generation.
Expect bold conversations, unconventional perspectives, and thoughtful debate designed to inspire healthier, happier, and more intentional lives.
If you've ever questioned the status quo…
you might be someone who actually listens to Chasta.
01 - Nobody Listens to Chasta
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Speaker 2: [00:00:00] trophies are not building resilient kids.
Speaker: Heard
Speaker 2: that maybe even humans, right, heard that like the labels, the awards, this, this need for validation. For recognition, the dopamine of constantly chasing like a prize or a win. We're losing that process because we're so focused on the product and in that journey, I think we're really losing authenticity and intellect and creative and critical thinking.
Speaker 2: This is, nobody listens to Chasta. We're here. I'm Chasta and I have a long history [00:01:00] of no one listening to me. Keynotes books. Family, including you? My husband.
Speaker: I guess
Speaker 2: I'm family. Very
Speaker: first
Speaker 2: guest.
Speaker: That's me. Yep. I'm John. I am lucky, lucky. Lucky to be Chasta husband and I have been accused a time of two, not listening to her.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's talk about one of the biggest, not listenings. This was pre. Pre-marriage.
Speaker: Oh, we're going right from the top.
Speaker 2: We're going right from the top. 'cause I, I wanna set this stage of like nobody listening to Chasta and why it's important to have you here because we are gonna talk about something that I'm so passionate about that I've spent a decade learning and researching in just a little bit.
But first, let's just give them a little glimpse into who we are.
Speaker: That will be really fun for me.
Speaker 2: So the year was fall 2016 and you said.
Speaker: Said that I was not doing too well and I wanted to figure out what to do with my life. And I had recently taken some aptitude tests, I believe, and I think I dumped a large file of aptitude, aptitude tests [00:02:00] and statistics on your place at Relish Creedmore Road.
Maybe you were having brunch,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't go to the place I first suggested because you didn't feel like its Google rating was high enough. That was the first time I ever even knew there were Google ratings for restaurants. So you actually taught me something that day.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, if you want me to teach you something else for everyone listening on our way here, like some kind of psychopath, if you wanna know how different Chasten I are, she was using the list of Google Directions to get here.
Like she had printed it from MapQuest. Not, I mean, maybe she doesn't know that there's an actual map now that can navigate for you, but that is just something that I still have trouble with.
Speaker 2: That's, that's actually diabolical because. One of my dear um, leadership staff members at the studio, we were traveling together recently, and she was like, what are you doing?
Why is there a list of directions
Speaker: pulled out? There's no difference between what you do in printing out MapQuest in 1999.
Speaker 2: So speaking of printing out MapQuest and the aptitude test, let's take it back to the brunch fall 2016. There's this list of your skills, you're feeling stuck. [00:03:00] People like to come to me when they feel stuck.
Um, and I think it's because I have a history of getting unstuck. Yeah. Um. Even if no one's listening to me. , We're sitting there and I'm looking through all of this and I, and I decided in that moment, you know, I was going through a lot of personal and professional changes at that time. Which I'm sure we'll get into on the show at some point.
But you know, I'm looking, and I really respected and admired you because we'd worked together on several shows. Performing arts are a big part of our lives, and I wanted to be honest. I was like, this is where I'm laying it all on the line, and I'm gonna be so honest and bold because oftentimes being honest is being bold.
And I said, there were two things that I really felt you needed to do. You remember those two things? Do you want me to tell 'em, or you want, do you wanna say them or you want me to?
Speaker: I don't wanna get it wrong. Okay. I know them. I don't wanna get it wrong, so I'm gonna let you say them.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, the first one was I felt like you needed to move to New York City and pursue your dreams.
Right? And then second, I said, you need to break up with your girlfriend, because I thought she was toxic.
Speaker: Are you sure it was in that order?
Speaker 2: I'm not [00:04:00] sure. I wanted to build the suspense for the podcast, but it might've been reversed on the day of,
Speaker: I think it was.
Speaker 2: And. You were just like, okay. And I mean, you're sometimes a man.
A few words except clearly when it's about how I googled the directions to get somewhere. Um, but in that moment you were like, okay, thanks. I went off to rehearsal 'cause it was a Sunday and you stopped talking to me for three months at least.
Speaker: That's about right. Yep. Sometimes when you hear jarring information, I know this is something you're gonna touch on, something that involves a big shift in your life, you have to think about it.
Speaker 2: There's a
Speaker: shock and you can be rattled. I believe I was rattled,
Speaker 2: but I think you were probably thinking about it over this
Speaker: once. Oh, I was thinking about it. I was thinking about it. I, I eventually, um, did, in that relationship, I did not move to New York.
Speaker 2: But now you go to New York all the time with me
Speaker: now I go to New York all the time with you,
Speaker 2: so it all works out.
Speaker: There we go.
Speaker 2: And [00:05:00] maybe you're living the dream too.
Speaker: Nightmare
Speaker 2: May. They're mirrors of each other, right? There
Speaker: we go.
Speaker 2: So anyway, what we are gonna talk about today, that's a little bit of our listening. Listening and learning journey because I do believe deeply like listening is learning. And we have to have ideas.
We have to have conversation. We can't live in echo chambers. That's something we talk about a lot, um, that we worry that we aren't engaging in enough spirited dialogue in the world. And I love having spirited dialogue. Would you agree?
Speaker: I would agree.
Speaker 2: And I was raised in a way where spirited dialogue was encouraged.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker 2: My aunt loves, loves Aunt Cheryl. Shout out. She loves spirited dialogue and we're teaching that with our son.
Speaker: Your son. Your son. Our son. Your son is as spirited as they come.
Speaker 2: He, he takes a lot after me.
Speaker: Yes. He, I would say he looks like me and he acts like you. So watch out World. [00:06:00]
Speaker 2: Spirited. So today we are gonna kind of take it to the children's sphere because one, we are parents, and two, we have also been blessed, um, to own and operate stage door dance production.
So youth activity space for almost two decades. So since 2009, John officially came on board in 2004, so he's a little newer to the the ecosystem, but jumped right in. For two decades, we've kind of watched children and their journey and I mean, I opened stage short dance at 22, so I was kind of just coming out of childhood on my own,
Speaker: in the middle of a recession,
Speaker 2: in the middle of a recession, 2008, nine timeframe.
So I. You know, we were doing it and I just realized that it could be more than kind of the stand standard that society had set. And I think a lot of our conversations are gonna go back to that of like, what, what are we getting wrong systemically that could be better to create a better world, not only for all humans, but especially for children, because that's the future.
Speaker: It is. And I [00:07:00] mean even if you just look at that timeframe from when you started Stagedoor dance until now, the way a child's journey in our society has changed is a little terrifying, especially since we've got a four, almost 5-year-old. Um, and that's a lot of the stuff we're gonna talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, technology in that time period.
Was not what it is now.
Speaker: Didn't have an iPad when you
Speaker 2: came
Speaker: out The Mbba?
Speaker 2: We were, I mean, we were still using CDs when the studio first opened.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I remember buying the high school musical CDs at Target,
Speaker: iPod, shuffles,
Speaker 2: iPod, bananas, ipo, shuffles. Yes. Oh
Speaker: man.
Speaker 2: Not even shuffled. The big, the big, you know, the honkers
Speaker: Oh, the original version.
Yeah. OG that had all that memory and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, you know,
Speaker: takes me back.
Speaker 2: Mine didn't get thrown away until two years ago.
Speaker: And how
Speaker 2: was it a, a staff member actually came up to me holding it. Said, I think it's time.
Speaker: Oh, I thought you're gonna, that's better than I thought. You're gonna say they didn't know what it was like.
Oh, that's way worse,
Speaker 2: but No, no. I said it's [00:08:00] time. And I agreed. But yes, so we have journeyed a lot. We've seen a lot, two decades. A lot of things can happen. And in the midst of this journey, specifically within my sphere, one thing that I acknowledged, and this was kind of a well, let's. Burn down what we've done and build it back up better.
That's a big philosophy that ibel a philosophy that I believe if something is not working, it is okay to burn it down and build it back. And a lot of times you can build it back better. Oftentimes there's so much fear of change that people won't let that happen, but I really believe if we can be change persistent instead of change resistant.
We can have a much better world in life and ecosystem.
Speaker: 100%. And I think a lot of people, including myself, are, and as you noted, historically scared to do that. And so
Speaker 2: what is, what is the fear?
Speaker: I don't know. I, one of the things Chasta always talks about that just really resonates with me, I think it will with a lot of people, is if, if you take some of these most popular female characters like Elba or Elsa and [00:09:00] Frozen, people like that, and they're so, so.
Celebrate in the, in these movies. But if you think about
Speaker 2: the journey,
Speaker: the, the dynamic and the journey in our society, I don't think everybody would be celebrating them if they weren't, you know, part of this musical or part of this movie.
Speaker 2: They have hard lives. Yeah. They have to make hard decisions.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And oftentimes they're not liked and, but yet everyone will dress up as a Miss Halle. They sure will. But it's like, do you really want that responsibility? Leading is hard. Being a leader is hard. Making these decisions is hard, and I hope that the people that will listen and that will stay and grow with us are gonna feel empowered to make these really hard decisions in whatever sphere they work in.
But the one conversation, this is what I wanna talk about today, is that trophies are not building resilient kids.
Speaker: Heard
Speaker 2: that maybe even humans, right, heard that like the labels, the awards, this, this need for validation. For recognition, the dopamine of constantly chasing like a prize or a win. We're losing that process because we're so focused on the product [00:10:00] and in that journey, I think we're really losing authenticity and intellect and creative and critical thinking.
And that's what I wanna talk about today.
Speaker: Absolutely. I mean, when you talk about chasing that, that quick hit, it's as easy for kids and, and adults, especially adults these days. Just that like, or impressions on social media. Right. It doesn't even have to be a whole on trophy. Yeah. It could just be chasing those social media stats and that's
Speaker 2: good.
Trophy has become this very, like, metaphorical idea and it's, it's validation. It's a like, it's a follow, it's an object. It's a prize. It's a label. It's those initials after your name, which, you know, all those drive me crazy too. I just signed things, Shasta, or sometimes I'll put founder and owner. Yeah. But I only started doing owner because private equity started buying everything.
And I want people to know that I still have my small business episode later episode that's coming. Private
Speaker: equity's coming.
Speaker 2: So. It is just, you know, at some point along the way, and we noticed this in dance competitions, right? That's where like the red flags were really going off in my sphere. And [00:11:00] around 2013 to 2015 I was like this, we're getting it wrong.
Like, let's stop this right here. We are celebrating something that's actually the antithesis of performing arts. So I went to my staff and I said, I think we've gotta get out of this. And they were like, but how? Like this is what we do. This is what everyone does.
Speaker: It's what everyone does,
Speaker 2: Keith. It's what everyone does.
This is what has become normalized is like the standard of excellence in the industry. And I said, well, we have to find a way and I think we can. And luckily, you know, the majority stuck around to see what that would look like. But somewhere along the way, like this chase for whatever we're chasing, stopped marking accomplishment and started managing emotion.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: Right? Like, think about that. We give prizes because we are not Okay. Feeling uncomfortable. And why and, and why. Like why are we, and you know, I think about this and I'm like, why am I okay? I lose a lot and we'll talk about that in a minute. And I think maybe, you know, and I'm, everything [00:12:00] goes back to something from childhood, right?
And you know, both of my parents passed away and my childhood, so I'm almost wondering if like, my childhood was already kind of so uncomfortable that this type of discomfort doesn't really phase me.
Speaker: Could definitely be true. I mean, how many percentage wise of your clients, your staff, did you lose when y'all, when you, not y'all, you made that decision.
Speaker 2: Well, it was kind of you y'all. 'cause it was like a whole institution right? That I was tied to. Yeah. And had a personal guarantee on, but it was like a you y'all situation. Um, you know, we lost pretty much our whole team.
Speaker: Yeah,
Speaker 2: but do you know what happened the following year? Our enrollment overall, the team only represented maybe about 10% of the ecosystem.
They left the next year. Enrollment bumped up 25%. So people are willing if they can listen and learn and be educated. But that's the thing is like they just don't know. And what I do know is parents want what they feel and what they are taught is in the best interest of their child. [00:13:00] Every parent is doing something out of love, out of advancement, out of the drive for success for their child as they should, right?
Parents advocate for children, but this is where the trophy thing gets hairy, is that companies, like, for my instance, dance competitions, right? They have figured out how to capitalize on the fear of parents wanting what's best for their child. In places like dance studios have been positioned as the middle, the middle man.
That that funnels. And so then we create this whole ecosystem where maybe not everybody is happy or fulfilled or actually enjoying what they're doing or getting like the true joy out of it, but it's because we've been entrenched that this is what you do. You have to pay to play to be successful.
Speaker: Right.
And so just for the people that have not read trash, the trophies yet, major recommendation there, authored by Chasta Hamilton, the. Situation with the dance studios and the dance competitions, you are having to pay and ask [00:14:00] clients in, in that scenario. Mm-hmm. To pay so much money. But the dance studio is not making any of that money.
It all goes directly to the competitions. Right. In and out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: So there's no financial benefit to a client of that dance studio. To the dance studio itself. It's all. Just gone to the competition. Right.
Speaker 2: So much of that is funneled through. Yeah, and you know, it really depends on how the individual studio is kind of setting that up within their infrastructure.
But we did the trash, the trophies, white papers a couple years ago. I don't know if you remember where we surveyed, um, over a thousand people and we're getting all this response and when the studio questions, a really fascinating thing that we found is I think it was like 75 to 80% either were not.
Generating a profit on their competition programs or
Speaker: losing money.
Speaker 2: They didn't know.
Speaker: Oh, they didn't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were either not generating a profit they didn't know or they were losing. So I mean, there's problems in all three of those. All
Speaker: three of those, yeah. Are not where you wanna be. Yeah. Is, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I didn't realize [00:15:00] there
Speaker: was somebody that didn't.
Speaker 2: I, I saw something today that was just posted that said, um, that a studio had paid $115,000 in entry fees for one weekend, for one studio. They had 265 entries, but this competition as a whole was only gonna have 320 entries total since basically, and they're more than two.
It's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker: not great at
Speaker 2: math, but so make it make sense. Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It is a pay to play and so many things have become pay to play to get this dopamine hit. Right. Dance and beyond.
Speaker: I was gonna say, it's not just dance.
Speaker 2: It's not just dance. Like that's why I don't want this idea to be locked into dance.
Like that was my experience. But the shift that we had took place in 20 15, 16, and then a lot of rebuilding, right? Mm-hmm. And then, you know, I spoke at the conference in Arizona. People were coming up to me and, and they were saying, I wish I had the confidence to do something like this, to make this shift.
But they felt like they would lose [00:16:00] clients or they would lose their reputation. Like all, all of the fear that we've discussed. And I remember this lady saying in the hall with tears in her eyes and it just really made an impact. And so we, when we got on the plane to come home, 'cause you were with me on that trip, do you remember what I said?
Speaker: I don't, I remember how upset you were when we got there, and that's like kind of. Stayed with
Speaker 2: me 'cause I was so nervous. It was my first time coming back into the field after stopping dance competitions. Yeah. But I mean, even though you were clearly scarred the whole few days we were there thinking about, I was acting a little ridiculous when we got there.
Speaker: I was just trying to be supportive and so I, I must have forgot all the good things that, which is, that can happen in life. And I Remind me of the good that came out of it. I,
Speaker 2: well, I will, but I do wanna say that I typically am very confident. Yes. And that was, it was very unusual. Like even when I think back to it, I feel smaller than I actually am because I just, I don't know why I felt like I had already been on the outside of an industry, I guess.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] We're waiting. What did the lady say?
Speaker 2: Me? What did I say? Oh, the lady. No, so, so no, the lady said nothing. The Well, she said she wished she could. She had tears in her eyes. Yeah. And so I got on the plane with you,
Speaker: you told me,
Speaker 2: and I said to you, which, I mean, nobody, you don't listen to me. No, it
Default_2026-04-16_2: was
Speaker: to Chasta.
Speaker 2: What did I say? You don't know.
Speaker: You have no
Speaker 2: idea.
Speaker: You thought it was
Speaker 2: the late,
Speaker: I would not be able to tell it, and I, I hate that because I know that it was important and insightful. So please. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna remind you. Okay. I have a really great memory. Do you wanna tell him about my memory?
Speaker: I would say that it is a great memory. I would say that it. May be even better than history of things that actually happened. You're able to remember things beyond what actually happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And tell
Speaker: like,
Speaker 2: like
Speaker: culture
Speaker 2: revisionist.
Speaker: Tell I Yeah. You are a bit of a revision revisionist when it comes to history.
Sometimes your memory is so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And you've passed it on to your son, so that's great.
Speaker 2: So I said to you, I never went, I said, I'm gonna write a book about this.
Speaker: And that's how [00:18:00] trust the trophies came to be.
every Sunday of every fall. What are you typically doing?
Speaker: I enjoy watching the National Football League on Sunday. I enjoy keeping track of my fantasy teams. Mm-hmm.
I now enjoy. And in
Speaker 2: 2018 you were 29, 18, 19. You were really tracking. 'cause we didn't have a child.
Speaker: I was too into fantasy football that season. Yes, I did win, I would like to say.
Speaker 2: Um, so you were busy. And I like to be busy as well, so I [00:19:00] decided on, during those Sundays, I would just sit at the table and write this little book.
You remember,
Speaker: I do remember you writing in our old, our
Speaker 2: old house and just probably being very quiet. Yeah,
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker 2: And I knocked it out in like three months football season. I wrote that book.
Speaker: Good job, John. Good job Football. The world is better
Speaker 2: because of it. And then I had a publisher as of December, 2019.
Everything was rolling January, 2020. And then. We were like, well, dance competitions even still exist. And then, 'cause you know the pandemic hit Oh '
Speaker: cause the pandemic,
Speaker 2: right? Yeah. In March. And the book was coming out in August. August of 2020. And I was like, will this still be relevant?
Speaker: Turns out big time.
Speaker 2: Turns out
Speaker: all over the world.
Speaker 2: All over. All over the world. Yeah. And I'll never forget, like right after release, remember I heard from somebody and they said, you know, this actually applies to the NBA too. And that's when, that was a moment like I was very in the dance sphere and I was like, this is so much bigger than dance.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: This is youth activities, [00:20:00] this is academics, this is college, this is the workplace, this is the corporate ladder. This is the pressure we put on ourselves internally. That may be the antithesis of happiness, of like joy of what we really want in our lives.
Speaker: The journey.
Speaker 2: The journey,
Speaker: which I know you love to talk about
Speaker 2: process over the product.
Mm-hmm. It has to be process driven. We're losing, we're losing the power of the process. And that really bothers me because I believe in the process, right? Like, let's think about some of the shows we worked on together. Okay. So we're gonna get into our community theater history at another point, but worked on several shows together.
And we did the performances right, but the stories we have to tell are from the process.
Speaker: They're from the process,
Speaker 2: the rehearsals, the journeys. Temper, tan tantrums, the auditions, tech
Speaker: weeks,
Speaker 2: tech weeks. It's a journey.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's where the growth happens. Like I think it happens in kind of that messy middle.
As a society, we wanna package everything so we can post it on [00:21:00] Instagram and get the likes and get the followers and get that validation. We want it to look so good. But we are recently watching a documentary about the Manosphere, which is a whole other conversation, right. That's, we're not gonna get into with this, but I loved at the end of that documentary that they called it Algorithmic Prisons.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like we get caught in these traps of like, what are we chasing? Are we chasing this digital reality? Are we, are we chasing these trophies because everyone we're seeing online is chasing them. They're not putting their struggle in the studio on there.
Speaker: It's crazy how fast it went from chronological timelines on your newsfeed of people you followed and people you knew to just this algorithm feeding you over and over what.
Somebody in Big Tech wants you to see, essentially. I mean, I'm a, I'm a conspiracy theorist. Might find out more on that later episodes too. But
Speaker 2: yeah, let's not get into that. I know that.
Speaker: Yeah, I know you're
Speaker 2: not throw fees, so you know, it's like it's process product. That's one of the things I always like to talk about.
Do you remember the other thing that I really like to [00:22:00] say? Um.
Speaker: 5, 6, 7, 8.
Speaker 2: Yes. I do love saying 5, 6, 7, 8. Yeah. One time you actually walked out of a rehearsal because of how I was saying 5, 6, 7, 8. Do you remember?
Speaker: No, of course not.
Speaker 2: Because you weren't actually listening. You just wanted take a break.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: You said you're saying 5, 6, 7, 8 with too much intensity.
That's what you said to me.
Speaker: Hmm. I'll have to poll some of the others that were in that room and
Speaker 2: I think it was a private lesson.
Speaker: Oh. Just me then.
Speaker 2: And you still had to take a break. Okay. What's the other thing I said? Just take a minute.
Speaker: What's the other thing?
Speaker 2: Intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation.
Like are we waking up and living because of something? We're gonna receive extrinsically, which we have literally no control over. Are we waking up and living our every day because we are so intrinsically motivated to do so? There's a phrase I like to do, to use about. Going to stage store dance, being at stage store dance.
That is, what do I like to say?
Speaker: We're changing [00:23:00] the world. We're not working.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like to say that I don't like to use the word work because that already adds this like laborious con connotation. Like we're showing up to like schlep around and we have to be there because we're beholden to some bigger system.
But like the idea is like, no, we get to go in, we get to change lives.
Speaker: Yeah. And when you talk about the journey in my, the shorter two year time period that I have been officially part of stage door dance, just getting to watch the development of some of these kids and the way that they come out of their shells, their executive functioning, it's beyond just.
You know, the product of dance, like getting to see that is truly a reward.
Speaker 2: It's the skill. And, you know, one of the, you know, the thing that was so great about you coming on board is, well, first off, I did make a whole slide deck and I said, just think about it and let me know if and when you're ready.
'cause I, I wanted you to really feel self-motivated to do this. , And do you remember what you said? You said.
Speaker: I'm not sure what I said. I [00:24:00] know it took about like two and a half years after you had started pitching it.
Speaker 2: No, but I'm so glad it did. Um, I. But it was that you said that seeing our child thrive in the environment made you wanna be a part of environment, of the environment because you saw firsthand the power of this thing to believe in that was like bigger than a product.
It was actually changing lives, like changing the future. And that is something that I stand so strongly behind.
Speaker: Well, I do love it when you remind me of something good I said. So
Speaker 2: yeah, it was really, it was really powerful. So I think you know this intrinsic versus extrinsic is people are always looking outward, right?
They're looking for the trophy, the recognition, the praise, versus this concept of like a really powerful inner reflection of like, did I improve, did I work hard? Was I a leader on the team? Did I get up and do this because I was self-motivated to do so? Because a lot of the awards kind of go [00:25:00] away as you get older,
Speaker: they do.
Speaker 2: And I think we have to think if we flip the narrative, are we preparing children for a future that is not necessarily as award heavy? In their most developmental time as children, I think it's our duty as adults to say we want you to be equipped to be as successful as possible, to be as competitive as possible.
And I believe that if you are competitive at life, it is not based on trophies or awards, it is because you are showing up and you are getting it done every single day.
Speaker: 100%. This lady all, she shows up every single day, whether you want her to or not. She's gonna be there bell's on, um, trying to change the world.
And it, it really is inspiring as, as much grief as I give her, which is really just because I know she likes it and it's kind of fun. Yeah, she, she thinks it's kind of fun that I like to play foil to her. Um, you know, that sparkle in rainbows and I'm over here just kind of washing them away, [00:26:00] but. There you can learn a lot from this woman.
And Lord knows that I have, and we'll continue to,
Speaker 2: I hope, I hope we all continue learning from each other, right? And then it becomes things like the silverware starts going from the sink into the dishwasher.
Speaker: Oh my gosh, we're going here.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's, it's habits and it doesn't take that long to form really great habits 20 times is what they say.
Speaker: That's what they say. That's what you say?
Speaker 2: No. I read
Speaker: it. Who's they? You read it somewhere?
Speaker 2: I think it, I don't wanna quote it because Is it Al
Speaker: go?
Speaker 2: No. I think it might be Malcolm Gladwell. Oh. But I'm not entirely positive. Okay. But it is, it is like a tested, studied thing.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker 2: Of like habit forming things.
And then, you know, we're talking about the trophies and the children and the habits, because for children it's executive functioning too. Like I remember during the pandemic saying, um, okay, everybody just, let's put some laundry away tonight. From one of our Zoom [00:27:00] calls. 'cause we were doing all the studio on Zoom.
Speaker: A zoom call with, with all your students.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I said, all right, we've done our dancing, you know, now let's just try to help our home communities and let's do a little bit of laundry. So, you know, we hung up, we got back on the next day and I got an email from a mom and do you know what she said? She said, for the first time ever, my child put their laundry away.
And I know it sounds small, like these are such small things, but small habits become bigger things.
Speaker: That's the biggest thing people talk about at the studio is the executive function component. Yeah. And I think it's, it's not talked about enough that I, I think as a society in America as a whole, especially, you know, in traveling to some other places, like we might be failing our children that we're trying to raise in the executive functioning category.
And that's one of the things I'm, I'm so thankful to keep exploring and, and something we put. Such a big emphasis on
Speaker 2: such and so much thought behind of like, are we [00:28:00] preparing these children? If they wanna dance longer than their time at the studio, great. But if they don't, I wanna see them be so successful in whatever field they choose to go into.
And I want dance to be that skill that gave them that launchpad to succeed. And I think a lot of times, like these rewards are used to protect. Disappointment. Yeah, right. They're used because, um, so there aren't tears. So we don't have frustrations, we don't have comparison or hard conversations. But that, like, that's where we get to like a lot of great truth and reflection and self-awareness and self-discipline and resilience.
Right? Like we, if there's one thing we know, it's that we have to be resilient.
Speaker: Gotta be. It's the only choice. You gotta
Speaker 2: be
Speaker: resilient or passive. Make the right choice.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And we were even talking about this idea of complaining the other day of complaining is a victim mindset.
Speaker: Talking about that with our son,
Speaker 2: we were Yes.
Yes. He was complaining and instead complaining is a victim mindset, not a [00:29:00] growth mindset. So how, you know, and it's not just when you're in the swimming pool or you're in the basketball game or you're dancing, like these lessons happen every minute of every single day. If we're willing to stop and teach them.
And that's the opportunity, right?
Speaker: That's the opportunity.
Speaker 2: So because we don't want children to believe that their worth is tied to applause, placement medals, likes, follows, right? Like this ripple effect has expanded from like participation trophies and ribbons to AP scores to follows to how many stories can I post in a day so that I stay in the algorithm and that I keep getting these dms or the Snapchats, or.
All this influx of media and information.
Speaker: Glad I did not have to deal with it. 'cause I do not think I would've done a good job.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The, the, the, um, the validation world and how it feeds the dopamine hits. I remember being at a [00:30:00] conference a couple years ago and at the end of the night a lady said to me that she needed to go scrape some dopamine out of her inbox.
And that really kind of shook me.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Because it's like, is that where we want? Is that, where
Speaker: we're you think she, you think she says that like often?
Speaker 2: I dunno. I mean,
Speaker: are you still in touch with her?
Speaker 2: No. No,
Speaker: that's wild.
Speaker 2: That's another topic. But. Do we wanna be scraping our dopamine from our inbox? I wanna get it from like the sunshine or like a theater show.
Speaker: I mean, I was trying to get some dopamine riding my bike yesterday and ended up scraping my entire body. So depending on how you wanna scrape it
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Come many ways.
Speaker 2: And you were so resilient about it.
Speaker: Oh, thank
Speaker 2: you. Like I feel like you were actually modeling a really, a really great lesson in bravery to our son.
Speaker: I was trying, he wouldn't look at me while he was eating because there are apparently some scrapes that I still hadn't covered. Yeah. But he's getting there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I
Speaker: mean, I do, I do think that having him and having you has made me far more [00:31:00] resilient as a human being. And I know, you know that I, because I've known you for so long, but Yeah, I appreciate the, the compliment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I just think it's like, you know, that probably felt like a loss to you. You had a plan and the plan
Speaker: did not go, consider happens seven seconds into the bike ride when I had just tuned the thing up for spraying. Paid about $440. Yes.
Speaker 2: I mean, you had it a loss. You had planned this ride for days I had.
Which you don't always do.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: Like you really were organized. I was so proud of. You're like, I'm waking up. I'm gonna be there when the gate opens, and then a few minutes in when the phone was ringing. I knew that.
Speaker: It's not good
Speaker 2: phone, phone call, so something did not go the way that it had planned, but you were change persistent.
Speaker: There we go. Bringing it back
Speaker 2: around, not change resistant. And I think that's what we have to do. We have to normalize expecting things to go wrong. Like I think we live in a culture where it's like, oh, this has to be perfect. This has to be right. This has to be at the top, the grade has to be incredible.
And it's because we live in such an assessment driven world. Like [00:32:00] why is our pre-K son getting a six page assessment where it's asking if he can, you know, assess bar graphs. Right.
Speaker: I think that's a great lead in into episode two. Yes. Coming up, yes. Where we are gonna talk about the kindergarten and pre-K situation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The production of parenting. But, you know, the bottom line. Let's talk about a few ways people can really take this knowledge and use it in their day to day. Let's do
Speaker: that.
Speaker 2: I, I think we need to normalize losing. We're gonna talk about how I love being a loser. I throw myself out there far too often and have lost time and time again, but I still look at every day as a win.
Because I'm trying. So how does it, how do you get through not being selected? How do you handle feedback even when it's feedback you don't like and how do you continue working at your best without immediate awards? So how, how, you know, can children use this? Like what would you say is your number one tip?
Speaker: So for me, you know, I'm known as Coach John at the dance studio. And I don't know if that's because I'm [00:33:00] not a trained. Dancer, um, willing to, to have the mister or misses that everyone else seems to have, but,
Speaker 2: well, you actually asked for that on your name tag. That's why you're known as Coach John.
Speaker: See, I forgot that too. But the other reason it could be is because of my affinity for sports, which you may have already heard a little bit about from Chasta. But when you're talking about, you know, how can I do that with my own child? You know, when Sebastian and I are out playing sports, we play basketball, football, soccer, baseball.
I am so focused on. His building blocks for those sports. And I know we've talked a lot about these youth sports that are out there, especially for someone that's between like two and four.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker: You know, and soccer. It's just the big blob of all the kids running together. Um, and so the way I try to do it with him is, Hey, we're just working on one thing at a time.
Today we're gonna work on our passing in soccer. Today we're gonna work on our dribbling. Um. Breaking it up. Yeah. I think that's the way you can, it's
Speaker 2: okay to go slow. Yeah. Like we live in a fast food world and I think that's one of the things that [00:34:00] I wrestle with with dance is dance is a slow burn. It is an art that is, takes years and years to achieve, but that will give you lifelong joy if you stick with it.
And same with these skills and these building blocks, right? So I think we have to teach children and people, even adults, understand that the struggle is okay. That's where we learn. That's where we grow. And sometimes it's easier to let that happen without overexplaining it. You know, I've been big on stoicism the last few years since we went to Rome, and part of this Socratic method that I've been trying to employ is asking more questions.
Why does it feel that way? Why do you think you're feeling this way? Um, really digging deeper and then not rushing to reward every effort, right? Letting, letting there be a little bit of struggle and discomfort and tension. I think that's okay. Do you agree?
Speaker: I do. I'm thinking maybe our son's middle name should have been Socrates.
We were talking about these questions because that's all he ever does, which is good. That's in
Speaker 2: mind. Yes. He's very good at the Socratic method.
Speaker: I wouldn't call him stoic, but he's getting there.
Speaker 2: And I also think we have [00:35:00] to, when we're thinking about praise, to make sure that we are praising the process.
Yeah. Over the outcome. Praising persistence, showing up, leading kindness, these, these things that we do wanna see more of versus like a flash of a moment. 'cause that's just a very small representation of a journey. And you know, when you think of an AP exam, it's a score. Versus like, you don't actually get to see what that person wrote.
I would love for it to be more content driven versus numerically driven, but that's, you know, a conversation for another day too.
Speaker: Step one, be persistent. Step two, overhaul the education system. Oh God. There you go. Well,
Speaker 2: okay, that's, that is a big task. But, um, certainly when we could discuss, and maybe we could bring people on to jump in that conversation, but, you know, asking people questions too, like, what did you learn?
Why was it hard? What's next? I always think thinking ahead is growth mindset too. We don't stop, we can't stand in the frustration or the discontent or the [00:36:00] loss failure. Um, how can that be a launchpad for the next thing?
Speaker: All right, so it's okay to lose. It's okay to lose. Be persistent.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker: Growth mindset.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker: What was the la I so
Speaker 2: close. Keep going. It's keep going. Keep going. That, keep going. That is the win.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: The win is to keep living. The win is to keep living and being at your best every single day. The. Right. I'll give anyone a trophy for that. But what I'm gonna say final words, bottom line. If the trophy has become a tool to avoid disappointment, it's teaching children or people to expect recognition before they've built anything.
And I think we need to teach everyone to be builders.
Speaker: I agree. And I would say to take it a step further, you're not giving them a chance to experience disappointment, which is going to happen. It's going
Speaker 2: to happen.
Speaker: Make your life, no matter how hard you work,
Speaker 2: personally, professionally, all the ways disappointment will happen.
Alright. Well if you stayed with us this far for episode one, we're happy [00:37:00] about it. We have so many more things we're gonna talk about, right?
Speaker: We sure do.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, thank you for being the very first guest on. Nobody Listens to Chasta. I'm sure you'll be back.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker 2: Alright, thank you. Listeners, feel free to subscribe.
We would love to have you join us. We know a lot of people don't wanna listen or have conversations about hard things. That's what we are here to do and we hope you'll stay with us. We welcome your comments, your ideas, your suggestions, your feedback, your counterpoints. We are willing and eager to listen because I am someone that is used to not being listened to.
But I do wanna listen to you. Thank you for being here, and we'll see you in the next episode.
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