Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
From natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes to pandemics, cyberattacks, and labor strikes, companies have to navigate so many complexities to get goods where they need to go.
What's their secret weapon to operating within the unknown?
It’s the people.
Welcome to Supply Chain Champions, the show that showcases the stories of those who keep supply chains running smoothly. We're here to highlight their untold stories and share lessons they’ve learned along the way.
Join us as we peel back the curtain on the people who make supply chains work and enhance your own career in the process.
Tune in. Get smart. Move forward.
Michelle Livingstone [00:00:00]:
Supply chain is hard. Transportation is hard. It's 24/7. It is hard. So I think it's really important to build a network, surround yourself with people who understand what you're trying to accomplish, who could potentially help you accomplish that. But you also have to be willing to give back. And you can't wait till network until you actually need it. You have to be much more intentional about it.
Eric Fullerton [00:00:23]:
Welcome to Supply Chain Champions, the show brought to you by project44, where we're talking to the people who make supply chains work. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Supply Chain Champions. I'm your host, Eric Fullerton, and I'm excited to welcome Michelle Livingstone today. Michelle is a longtime industry leader and supply chain executive. Michelle, thank you so much for being here.
Michelle Livingstone [00:00:49]:
Oh, thanks so much for inviting me. I'm so excited to spend some time with you today.
Eric Fullerton [00:00:54]:
Awesome. So you have had a really expansive career in transportation and supply chain. You've worked in retail, direct to consumer, consumer products. You know, some companies like Kraft Foods, JCPenney, Home Depot. You've opened your own consulting practice. You're also a professor at the University of Denver in an adjunct fashion. And I guess I'm curious, like, the through line, through all of these things that you do and focus on, is there like a motto or is there an ethos that you've kind of taken to all these different things throughout your career?
Michelle Livingstone [00:01:27]:
You know, that's a really interesting question. I would say that it is along of the lines of let's get stuff done. You know, it's. There's so much to do and let's just do it. Let's just make it happen. And that for me is kind of my motto. Let's. Let's get her done, as they say.
Eric Fullerton [00:01:44]:
Perfect. I love it. I mean, you have to execute. It's hard to talk strategy if you can't manage the execution part. So no matter where you are and what you're doing, gotta get stuff done. I like it. Whether you'd admit it or not, you're perceived, at least your reputation is that being a bit of a trailblazer, really, in supply chain leadership. And you've done so much work in the woman's side of this as well.
Eric Fullerton [00:02:06]:
But I'm always curious, like, how did you get into transportation, logistics and supply chain? Was there something that inspired you to step into the field or tell me a little bit of that story?
Michelle Livingstone [00:02:16]:
Oh, absolutely. I'm excited to share that. My dad was in trucking for the majority of my life, and the majority of his life and it is amazing how much I learned at the dinner table as he was talking about his day. And I might have been rolling my eyes, which I'm pretty sure I was about, you know, yet another story about, you know, the driver did this or we lost the straight or whatever. But I may have looked like I wasn't paying attention. But when I got to Indiana University, I knew I wanted to be a business major and I went down the accounting and marketing and all that route and frankly, it's all fine, but it didn't really make me very excited. And then I learned that there was a concentration of transportation. So I took the obligatory Transportation 101 class and voila.
Michelle Livingstone [00:02:59]:
Turned out I actually had picked up a few things along the way and the rest was history. The fact that there were only, I think 32 students in that program at the time and only six were women also seemed like a good opportunity to get engaged. And. And I've never looked back. I really have loved being in the industry.
Eric Fullerton [00:03:16]:
Yeah. So when you look throughout your career, can you look back at a moment or maybe it's a set of experiences that kind of was a seminal moment for you where like you can look back and say, hey, that, that's part of the reason why I am, you know, where I am today.
Michelle Livingstone [00:03:32]:
I don't know that there was any one particular moment. And I will also say that I tend to focus, focus on the here and now and not so much in the, in the past, but I love the fact that the industry is fast paced and that, you know, it's solving hard problems with very smart people and all of that. And I just knew that I was in the right place. I just knew it. And truly it's been such a great field to be in and I've loved every minute of it. So I feel good about my decision that I made and I certainly want to encourage others to follow suit.
Eric Fullerton [00:04:05]:
Yeah. So I think we can talk about that a little bit as well because you obviously have very demanding full-time jobs throughout your career, but you've also done a lot of work with women in supply chain. Women's link, Velvet Hammers. You're on the advisory board of AWESOME, which is a leadership community dedicated to achieving women's excellence in supply chain. So I guess the question is, how did you make the decision to prioritize that part of professional business practice?
Michelle Livingstone [00:04:39]:
Yeah. You know what, I think it's really important to attract and retain the very best talent in the industry. And I feel that even today there are underrepresented populations in supply chain. And I really felt like as I made my way up the ladder, that I had to give back. And Gail Evans, who was a professor at Georgia Tech teaching women's leadership after she had a very successful career at cnn, used to talk about, if you're not helping another person come up the ladder as you're going up, then you really have failed. And so I probably learned that lesson a little too late. So it became important to work with larger groups of people and make sure that I helped grow and develop them and share my life lessons to the best of my ability and hopefully something resonates and hopefully that will continue to help attract and retain particularly women in the industry.
Eric Fullerton [00:05:32]:
Yeah. Awesome. I want to shift a little bit, kind of talking about maybe a little bit more the current state of the industry and where we're at and get some of your perspectives there. So, you know, I think that we've seen over the past couple years, post-COVID times, there's an industry focus, maybe a little obsession on the concept and idea of resilience. And I know you have a kind of an interesting thinking here around the concept of control and controlling what you can control and the relationship between that and building a resilient supply chain. Can you share a little bit of that, that perspective?
Michelle Livingstone [00:06:07]:
Yes, absolutely. And you're right, I learned throughout the years that the more I could control, the better my end result would be. And becoming a little less reliant on others certainly puts things in a better position, you know, for success. But there are some things that are just better done internally and where you can completely control it. So I always say I'm not a control freak. I do like to be in control, though, and being able to do more within the group and rely more on our own internal resources, I think work to our favor in a lot of cases.
Eric Fullerton [00:06:47]:
Yeah. Another thing that you've focused on in your career is this concept of a shipper of choice. And I know that when you're at Home Depot, this is a priority for the transportation and supply chain org. Maybe it's not thought of as much or certainly probably not prioritized as much as it should. When you think about the importance of the relationship between shippers and carriers, why prioritize that? Why focus on that? Maybe why is it important to create that shipper of choice mentality?
Michelle Livingstone [00:07:16]:
As a shipper, you know, I still am very passionate about that. And transportation is cyclical. You know, some years it's a shipper's market, some years it's a carrier's market. And you have to have a strategy that's going to work in both markets. And the shipper of choice has withstood the test of time. And if you align yourself with the right people, you have common shared goals on what you're trying to accomplish and how you want to go about doing it, then you eliminate a lot of the pendulum swings that can get you in trouble. And I'll tell you right now, it's been a shipper's market for the past few years. I know you're well aware that truckload carriers have suffered a bit.
Michelle Livingstone [00:07:56]:
And some shippers are going to find themselves, I'm afraid, in not the best spot here as the market is starting to turn, and the market always turns. What goes around comes around. And I think carriers are going to migrate to the shippers that stuck with them during the tough times. They'll be the first to get the capacity. They'll be first to get the best people on their account. They'll be first to get the benefit of new services and all that. And the shippers who treated the relationship more transactional, I think are going to find themselves having to do a bit of a scramble there to get what they need. And a lot of that, in my opinion, can be avoided by implementing a strategy like shipper of choice.
Michelle Livingstone [00:08:39]:
And, you know, it's just really about collaborating. You identify the carriers that. And service providers that are most important, and then you work with that group first and then you blend in others as you need to. To help supplement.
Eric Fullerton [00:08:52]:
Yeah, absolutely. One other topic I do want to get your thoughts on, because I did my research, Michelle, I've. I've heard you talk about some of these big topics before, and sustainability is something where there's a lot of conversation about. There's not a ton of, I would say, money necessarily put behind a lot of those things. There's a lot of action or an increasing amount of action. There's a little bit of a slow burn there in terms of putting your money where your mouth is and making some claims. And all of a sudden 2030 is looking really close. But I think you've also spoken about the actual connection between sustainability and cost savings.
Eric Fullerton [00:09:31]:
Things that people, I think, perceive as being at odds, but they're actually not in many ways. Can, can you talk a little bit about that?
Michelle Livingstone [00:09:39]:
Yes, absolutely. Well, first of all, sustainability for Home Depot. I'll just talk about my Home Depot days because I was very engaged with sustainability. There was important, because it's important to our customers, and that was really driving the primary focal point was, hey, if this is important to our customers, we need to step up and make sure that we are offering the best products and doing everything we can internally in our decision making to make sure that we're a sustainable company. And I do have many examples of where being sustainable actually saved money. So if you use an optimization tool to make sure that you're routing your trucks in the most efficient manner, it's great because it reduces greenhouse emissions and it saves money because you're operating more efficiently than you were before. And that's just one of many examples of why sustainability can save money. Now, of course, you know, there can be some investments in equipment, some other things along the way too, but there are so many things that both shippers and carriers can do to be more sustainable that actually do save money.
Michelle Livingstone [00:10:42]:
I'm a believer.
Eric Fullerton [00:10:43]:
Yeah, it's an important part. And I think that that is probably what it's going to take in order to start to see more momentum on, on some of these things in areas, especially when you look at, you know, North America and things like that. You've had this, you know, very successful career in logistics and transportation supply chain. You probably could have done a lot of things. You could have probably gone to a new org, you could have, you know, brought in many, many different types of leadership roles and instead you started your consultancy, which I think, you know, makes sense. And then also you shifted into teaching at the University of Denver. So I keep asking you why, but I do think it's an important kind of question like why prioritize that,.
Michelle Livingstone [00:11:25]:
Right. Well, first of all, I would say that you have to know when it's time to go. And then I left Home Depot because I felt like I was blocking a slot and I had worked hard to develop team members and you know, you go through a couple cycles of finally getting to ready now candidates and you're like, wow, I could hang in here because I was having fun. I mean, I love what I did, love the team, love the company, loved everything about it. But I'm going to block a spot and didn't want to do that. And I also wanted to serve on boards. So I do have the good fortune of serving on the board of Warner Enterprises and Mastery Logistics and I'm on the advisory board of The Pasha Group. So for me, that kept me in the industry and still, you know, remaining relevant and still doing the things that I love. But the teaching, actually I've always had a passion for and I learned at a pretty young age that I was not Going to live the lifestyle I would like to become accustomed to on a teacher's salary, which is such a sad statement, but it was true.
Michelle Livingstone [00:12:20]:
But now, you know, I have an opportunity to really give back. And the transportation and supply chain Institute at the University of Denver is phenomenal because everybody that is in the master's program is actually in the industry. So it's been so fun to continue to connect and help these future leaders grow and develop in their career. And it's truly been fulfilling. So it's been a lot of fun.
Eric Fullerton [00:12:42]:
Awesome. I'm gonna. I'm gonna embarrass you a little bit here because I did hear about Michelle-ism's at Home Depot, and I heard about a plaque. It's a testament to your leadership style that you had kind of these consistent themes that you were driving into the team. But if you could give me one, maybe two classic Michelle-isms from your time there, I would really appreciate it.
Michelle Livingstone [00:13:05]:
Thank you. I appreciate that. Research and opportunity. Unfortunately, I had so many that it filled the entire plaque, which is probably meaning that I need to be a little more creative in how I say things. But one of them is deliver good news fast and bad news faster. And I think as a mantra within supply chain and transportation, that is key. For me, that one was really important. There are 9,000 ways to deliver a message.
Michelle Livingstone [00:13:32]:
Maybe you'd like to pick one of the other 8,999 ways to say that. So I think communication is really important. How you deliver the message makes a huge difference on how it's received. And so that was one of them. And I have probably too many to even count.
Eric Fullerton [00:13:49]:
That's great. I'm very happy that. That I asked and that you played along. So I appreciate that. So before we go into the kind of, like, quick hits for us to close the episode, I did want to talk to you a little bit about advice. Whether it's for young professionals, all young professionals, for women getting into supply chain, or looking for those types of leadership roles. Obviously this is an area you're passionate about. What would you say if someone asked you for advice?
Michelle Livingstone [00:14:13]:
Yes, Well, I mentioned that I am very passionate about attracting, retaining the very best talent in the industry. And it's hard. Supply chain is hard. Transportation is hard. It's 24 7. It is hard. So I think it's really important to build a network. And I know a lot of folks have a negative connotation with networking, and it's like, oh, you know, that's not me.
Michelle Livingstone [00:14:33]:
And I think what they're missing is that it's not being disingenuous. It's really being smart to surround yourself with people who understand what you're trying to accomplish, who could potentially help you accomplish that. But you also have to be willing to give back. You know, you can't just take, take, take. You have to be able to also give and help others when they need it. I'm very big on networking and I encourage those that are particularly new in their career to network internally as well as externally. And you can't wait to network until you actually need it. You have to be much more intentional about it.
Michelle Livingstone [00:15:04]:
But I think it's a really important thing for folks particularly new in their career to get started on. And then hopefully, you know, I've been very fortunate. I have people in my network that I've known for decades at this point in time. And, you know, it's wonderful to be able to fall back on that when you need to.
Eric Fullerton [00:15:20]:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, that was great. Let's close with our quick hits here. So I'm going to ask you a couple questions and you know, try to keep it to maybe one. It doesn't have to be exactly one sentence, but maybe like one thought first. What is one thing that you wish everyone who worked in supply chain knew and the industry would be better for it?
Michelle Livingstone [00:15:41]:
I wish everyone knew that supply chain is a microcosm of business in general. We need supply chain it, we need supply chain hr, we need supply chain finance. It's not just operations, but all of the other disciplines are in supply chain and that makes it a great place to work.
Eric Fullerton [00:16:00]:
That was a great answer. What is one trait that all of the best supply chain professionals seem to have?
Michelle Livingstone [00:16:08]:
It probably is resilience. You know, you have to be willing to hang in there and work through hard problems and you can't just walk away. Resilience.
Eric Fullerton [00:16:18]:
Absolutely. I want to give you an opportunity to officially retire one overused buzzword in supply chain. If you had that chance, what would it be?
Michelle Livingstone [00:16:28]:
Unprecedented times. I don't know if you recall 2018, every carrier came in and they started the conversation about needing a rate increase with during these unprecedented times, I had a null sign on my whiteboard. No unprecedented times.
Eric Fullerton [00:16:44]:
If it's all an unprecedented time, then it's not an unprecedented time.
Michelle Livingstone [00:16:48]:
That is correct.
Eric Fullerton [00:16:50]:
So I have another question around kind of those principles. It's aligned with the motto, but a little bit different. Right. So you know, you've led supply chain operations at some of the the largest companies in the world. When you think about leadership principles. What's something that stayed very consistent across those different industries?
Michelle Livingstone [00:17:12]:
I would say what has stayed consistent across every company is treat your people right. Bernie Marcus, one of the co-founders of the Home Depot, I think said it best. If you treat your associates well, I'll take care of your customers and the rest will take care of itself. And I have found that treating the team right is absolutely the key to success.
Eric Fullerton [00:17:33]:
Yeah, absolutely. No matter how much technology there is this, it's still a people business at its very core.
Michelle Livingstone [00:17:39]:
Absolutely. And by the way, not only treating your associates right, but treating your business partners right, too.
Eric Fullerton [00:17:45]:
Cool. So let's talk a little bit about supply chain trends. You know, the industry is in a. Certainly an interesting space right now. There's a lot going on, there's a lot out there can be a little bit hard to parse through. So love your perspective. One supply chain trend that is overrated and why. And then maybe one that's underrated and why.
Michelle Livingstone [00:18:03]:
Yeah, you know what? I think the technology is phenomenal. The investment that folks are making, not just in AI, but in all forms of technology, data analytics, all that is great. Love that. The one thing that I was hoping would be further along, and I know this is a bit controversial, but autonomous trucking, obviously we need to adjust the infrastructure, but I just feel like there's a lot of value in terms of autonomous trucking. And not that, I mean, we love drivers. Absolutely love drivers, but I think there's value in terms of trying to figure out how we can do better with the technology that exists. And part of that's just getting public sentiment to come along with us, but part of that's also infrastructure. I don't know that there's anything overrated that comes to mind at the moment.
Eric Fullerton [00:18:45]:
Okay, last one of our quick hits. We're looking for hot takes. Michelle, what is your hot take on the supply chain industry today?
Michelle Livingstone [00:18:54]:
I am so optimistic for the future, and I feel that the industry is where you should be. And I really feel that the hot take is come join the industry and enjoy all that's happening and be a leader and make things even better going forward.
Eric Fullerton [00:19:12]:
Awesome. Michelle, thank you so much for taking some time to share your expertise, your perspective. I know it's. It's really valuable. You've done some amazing work in the industry and it's only continuing. So thank you very much for spending some time with us.
Michelle Livingstone [00:19:26]:
Oh, Eric, thank you so much for including me. I really appreciate it and you're a fun interviewer.
Eric Fullerton [00:19:35]:
Thank you for listening to Supply Chain Champions. To get connected and learn more, visit project44.com and click the link in the comments. To subscribe to project44's newsletter. Tune in, get smart, and move forward.