Who's the villain? What we're really protecting

Have you ever been completely blindsided by someone calling you mean, uncaring or unfair when you were honestly just trying to help? Have you ever labelled a hurtful action, a sharp word or an unwanted boundary as pure malice? 

We have a habit of dividing the world into heroes and villains but in the real world, "villainy" is almost always a matter of perspective. 

In this episode of Life in the Grey, we step away from the binary world of "good versus bad" to explore the messy middle of human motivation.

✨ Ready to be a little kinder to yourself? Download our free 5-day self-compassion challenge—with daily prompts, gentle exercises and tools to help you stop the spiral of self-criticism and start speaking to yourself like a friend.

Creators and Guests

Host

Faith

Faith is a Singapore-born advocate for holistic wellbeing, informed by decades of personal exploration into counselling practices, therapy and trauma recovery. Although not a psychologist, she has developed a nuanced understanding of emotional wellness through her healing journey. Married and living in Singapore, Faith shares her home with two beloved cats and nurtures a passion for jump rope, finding both joy and valuable life lessons in it. Her outlook embraces a blend of physical, spiritual and emotional health, allowing curiosity, compassion and intentional consideration to guide her as she navigates the gentle greys that lie between life’s extremes.

Host

Melody

Melody is a passionate advocate for empowering mothers through connection, faith and digital engagement. As the project leader for Mums At The Table, a vibrant community for mothers, Melody leads efforts to create meaningful content that helps mums navigate parenting while fostering deeper relationships with their children and local communities. With a background in media and communication, Melody uses her expertise to engage mothers in digital spaces, equipping them with practical tools for parenting and personal growth. She lives in Sydney with her husband and their primary-school-aged son.

What is Life in the Grey?

Life isn’t always black and white. Life in the Grey is a Mums At The Table podcast where we explore the psychological factors that shape our relationships, be that as a parent, a partner, or a peer. And don’t worry—it’s short because we ain't got time for fluff. Expect practical takeaways that you can apply to your own life, whether it’s navigating parenting challenges or finding balance amidst life’s demands. Join us each month as we share stories, insights, and reflections that encourage personal growth and foster a sense of connection in our community.

LITG Ep 019 COMPLETE 260603 AUDIO

MELODY:
So, you know the other day, for the first time ever, I was the keynote speaker at a women's event. Obviously, I was very nervous. I had to give four presentations, and before it, I told my son, and he very sweetly offered to be my audience while I practised.

FAITH:
Oh, that's nice.

MELODY:
Yeah, it was. It was very nice, except the problem was, we never made it past the first page of my first presentation. Because he told me to stop because he was like, it's too long, it's too boring.

FAITH:
Well, that's kids for you, right? I mean, they have this honesty about them that's just both aggravating and also very sweet.

MELODY:
Yes, and I was comforting myself that he wasn't the target audience, so I didn't change what I was going to say. I also didn't hold it against him. But what it is, was that it got me thinking about this disconnection between internal intent and external impact. It might be a bit of a stretch, and I will explain how I got there.

But before that, welcome to Life in the Grey, a Mums At The Table podcast, where we sit in the messy middle of relationships and growth. I'm Melody, project leader of Mums At The Table.

FAITH:
I'm Faith, and my background is in applied psychology. Parts work is where I geek out, and it's also where I gravitate towards in my own healing. And I also jump rope.

MELODY:
So, coming back to internal intent and external impact, perhaps it could be best summed up by, you know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You know how sometimes we categorise people as bad or evil, but then when you learn about their stories, you learn about where they're coming from, they actually have good intentions.

FAITH:
True. A lot of times context does give us a little bit more insight, and that insight might perhaps change the way that we feel towards someone or something.

MELODY:
Yes. And so, in the context of my son telling me that I was too boring, he was a nine-year-old listening to a speech that was targeted at adults. So, you know, context.

The other one that I was actually thinking about that may be a little bit more obvious is the story of Elphaba from the movie Wicked. Basically, for those who don't know, Elphaba is the Wicked Witch of the West in The Wizard of Oz. In that story, Wizard of Oz, we know that the Wicked Witch is, well, wicked and evil.

She's the main antagonist of the story. But then, in the story Wicked, we get to see a different side of her, her origin story, so to speak. So, this is a woman who's actually driven by animal rights or human rights, depending on how you see it.

And she's an advocate for justice. So, we realise the context behind why she does the thing that she does, and why she's viewed the way that she feels. And I just wonder, how often does that happen in real life?

People don't wake up in the morning wanting to be the bad guy. They're just protecting something.

FAITH:
Well, we all have origin stories to a certain extent. I was going to say to a certain extent, no, we all have origin stories, right? All of us have origin stories.

There's two different spaces here that I'm seeing. One is we're saying that when we try to protect ourselves, we are looking at ourselves and we see our reasons, we see our justifications, and then we have to grapple with the fact that maybe someone else, because they can't see it, they now paint us in their narrative as the villain. Then the flip side is because we can't see someone else's context, someone else's origin story, someone else's justifications and reasons, now it's our turn, because we don't have that information, to perhaps paint them as the villain, if we're only looking at the actions that they are presenting in the moment, in the present.

So the question then is, what does understanding the context behind the impact mean for the person who has been hurt?

MELODY:
Exactly, this is where I'm struggling, right? Because on the one hand, you are actually hurt, you do feel hurt. So say, for example, I'm the one that's seeing someone as a bad guy because I don't realise their intent and I don't realise their justification, correct?

So I'm seeing them as the bad guy, but then I come around and go and understand, oh, actually, they have a reason for what they're doing, and so I should give a bit more understanding, I should provide a bit more grace, a bit more forgiveness, which is the kind thing to do, correct? But yet at the same time, where does my hurt stand in that context then? Where does my hurt stand?

Does this mean that I should stop feeling hurt? Or does this mean that I can still feel hurt? But then if I'm still feeling hurt, are they the bad guy? It's all a bit confusing, isn't it?

FAITH:
Well, it's looking at the gap between intent and impact. Because understanding someone's context is an informational tool for you, but it's not a relational path for them. Does that make sense?

MELODY:
Yeah, I like that. I like the whole informational. So you understand, but it doesn't affect the relationship. Well, it affects the relationship because it doesn't hurt, but it doesn't excuse the friction that's caused in the relationship.

FAITH:
Adult relationships require adult boundaries. We started off this conversation talking about yourself and your nine-year-old. It is your job to consistently look at his potential and consistently reframe for him because his brain is a young brain.

It's your job to hold his intent because he is nine. The trap occurs when we take that exact same maternal instinct and we try to apply it to another adult because we are responsible to them. We are not responsible for them.

We are responsible to make sure that the things that we say reflect our honesty, is aligned with our values, to apologise, to understand. We are not responsible for their own unresolved issues and wounds that are now perpetuating in their actions because they are lashing out, because they have no idea what's going on and they are trying to protect. Yes, it's like saying, I understand you're protecting yourself.

Until you can do so in a way that does not cause me hurt and harm, I am going to remove myself from this room. I can still care and love for you from a distance. From a distance because adult relationships require adult boundaries.

Because a child is still learning how to manage their impact, whereas a chronically careless adult does not need me to consistently audit their intentions. What they need is a firm boundary.

MELODY:
But I guess, you know, I get what you're saying. And yes, when it comes to long-term relationships, definitely patterns, boundaries, etc. exist.

But maybe, potentially, what I'm trying to say as well is maybe we need to consider, like say, for example, it's just like a one-off with a stranger kind of thing, right? I don't know. Maybe it's to think about the gray as well, about, you know, if it's just a one-off thing, do we need to villainise them to the point of no return because their version of doing their best is different from ours?

Maybe it's time to give that little bit of grace for a one-off event. If there is a pattern, then yes, we definitely need to have further conversations and further boundaries.

FAITH:
What's the purpose of giving that grace though? I'm sorry to interrupt you, but what is your intent in wanting to give that grace?

MELODY:
I think my intent of giving that grace for a one-off is so that the world isn't full of conflict.

FAITH:
How is the world conflicted if you think this person did this and that's not right? It hurt me and that's not right.

MELODY:
But that's requiring talking about it as well. So it's like, okay, so there's a difference, right? It's hurt me and it's not right, but I'm going to give them a chance.

I'm going to have a talk to them about it and saying that, you know, this has hurt me, what you've done, rather than going, snarling back and never talking to the person or punching the person in the face.

FAITH:
Okay, so it's really about finding out what's aligned with your values, right? It comes down... Okay, I'm trying to really avoid being...

What's the word I'm looking for now? Prescriptive about this. Because there's so many different contexts here. If this were a real situation, I would ask you for more in-depth detail. But if we're talking about generics here, then to me, the intent matters. So does the impact. And I'm not as altruistic as you are. But the reason for understanding them better is simply so that we can move on with our lives.

MELODY:
Yeah, potentially.

FAITH:
We can just move on with our lives without holding on to a grudge. We can recognise that what they've done is not right. Or we can also recognise that maybe we don't have enough context and we don't know. But at best, we stay at neutral. I'm just going to stay neutral. Neutrality until information comes along the way.

It's like whatever happens is data, it's information for me to decide how I want to live my life in alignment and how I want to live my life integrated and coherent with the community that I want to be in also.

MELODY:
Yeah, where I was going was basically just having that peace. And having that peace, I guess, is as you've described it, is neutrality. It just means to give yourself a bit more of a peace of mind as well and to be able to get on with your own life.

FAITH:
Well, understanding someone's story, their inner Elphaba, gives context.

MELODY:
A person's action, whether it's someone else or whether it's us, it doesn't immediately make us the Wicked Witch of the West. Yes, the impact does hurt, but it still doesn't make us the Wicked Witch of the West. We're not so black and white that we're definite villains because of the actions.

FAITH:
We do carry all these sides of us. And for me, I try to figure out which side is showing up by asking a question. What am I frantically trying to protect at this exact moment? Because what we're trying to protect reveals so much more than we realise, especially if we're really willing to face it.

Has this conversation made you look at conflict in your life a little bit differently? If it has, let us know in the comments or reach out to us by emailing [e-mail] or through any of our Mums At The Table socials. Life in the Grey is a monthly podcast brought to you by Mums At The Table. See you next month!