Ep. 131: Mastering the Art of Leadership: Insights from Angus Hilsley

Travis Bader sits down with leadership expert Angus Hilsley. From his early days in the military to becoming a top-ranking recruit, Angus shares his journey and reveals the secrets to effective leadership. Discover how leadership can be both an art and a learned skill, and gain valuable insights into influencing human behavior to accomplish any mission. If you're ready to unlock your leadership potential, this episode is a must-listen.

Tune in now and embark on a transformative leadership adventure with Angus Hilsley on the Silvercore Podcast.

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
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ca.

Some people seem naturally inclined
towards leadership while others

find leadership thrust upon them.

Whether in the boardroom, the shop
floor, the sports field or the

battlefield, effective leadership can
easily make or break an organization.

When I was a child, I was told to
memorize the following leadership is

the art of influencing human behavior.

So it's accomplished a
mission in the manner.

So desired by the leader, it's an art.

Well, some people can find that they
have a natural penchant towards art and

it might seem to come to them naturally.

A lot can also be learned.

In the immortal words of Vince
Lombardi, leaders aren't born, they

are made, and they're made just like
anything else through hard work.

I'm joined today by a man who has
dedicated himself to providing

thousands of others with the
tools to be effective leaders.

Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Angus Hilsley.

Angus Hilsley: Hi,
thanks for having me on.

Travis Bader: It's good to have you.

It's about time that we
finally got you on here.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

It's been a while.

We got there eventually.

Travis Bader: You know, one
of the outtakes that I had.

So we both know Jamie, Jamie
Flynn, he's been on the

Silvercore podcast in the past.

And in my introduction and for me,
whatever reason it is, the introduction

is always the hardest part for me.

Just getting that, that first part out
and getting the conversation rolling.

And, And I'm saying he's a former
speaking to his military career.

And I accidentally say he's a farmer.

Ended up making that into a bit of a,
an outtake, but you actually did have

a bit of a stint where you're a farmer.

Just

Angus Hilsley: a little
bit short and sweet.

Travis Bader: Well, I'd love to hear
a bit about your background, what

kind of, what gives you street cred
as a person who could provide advice

on leadership and, uh, kind of start
getting into the, uh, And that's some

bolts of what makes a good leader.

Angus Hilsley: Okay, yeah, so I'll,
um, I'll go back to when I was 15.

That's when I left school.

And that's when I went into the Army
Foundation College in Harrogate,

back in the United Kingdom.

Um, and that's, uh, it's a year long
course for people transitioning out of

school, looking to join the military,
but they've kind of got that age buffer

where they need to kind of fill it in and
they use this time to kind of fill it in

wisely by taking you through education
and military training kind of thing.

So I joined Harrogate when I was just
turned 16 and I was there for a year

and you go through pretty much the
exact same as any normal army training,

but they also incorporate a lot of
education into it as well just to try

and kind of follow on from from school.

So I done that for a year.

which I absolutely loved.

I quickly realized that
the military was for me.

Mm hmm.

Um, I mean, me personally, I always
knew that I wanted to be in the army.

Yeah.

As a little boy, I was always running
about in the woods with camos on

and pretending to be a soldier.

Yeah.

Travis Bader: And

Angus Hilsley: reading lots of
military books and stuff like that.

And I just, I quickly realized that that
was the life I wanted to pursue, so.

And then once I got into this
uh, Training Foundation College.

I quickly realized that it was
definitely the right choice

and I had made the right call.

So We progressed through that.

I ended up doing very well through that.

That year long process ended up
graduating as the top recruit out

of the whole process So I think it
was just over a thousand recruits.

I managed to get the top top guy out of
that Which is they have a junior rank

structure So I got the junior regimental
sergeant major, which was quite a

big achievement for my first ever.

Travis Bader: That was what 16?

That was

Angus Hilsley: the 16, 16 years old.

So that was my first ever kind of

Entry into leadership and that it
was something that came maybe a

little bit more naturally to me.

Um, because I quickly realized that within
my platoon, boys would look to me for,

for help or guidance or boys would listen
to what I was saying and they would, they

would naturally start coming to me for
things that they were struggling with.

So then I started putting things together
and As I progressed through there,

yeah, it done very well and I managed to
graduate top of my class, which was huge.

And then from there we move on to
our phase two training, which is just

focusing completely around infanteering.

Um, and that's another four months
of training, pretty much the same as

what we're doing, but a lot more in
depth and a lot more kind of rigorous

training, a lot more fitness, a lot
more field craft stuff, um, and a

lot more kind of firearms training.

So do that for four months.

Progress to the same.

We moved through with the same platoon
as what we did in the foundation college.

So it was, it was very easy for me because
we had a platoon of boys that we all knew.

We'd already been together for a year.

So it helps.

Yeah.

Oh, it was, it was amazing.

So we already had an amazing bond as a
platoon when we moved on to ITC Catrick.

And yeah, we just kind of got
into it and everybody was great.

Like we all knew how to work
with each other by then.

It takes a long time to figure people out.

And by then we'd already realized how each
other work and what each other strengths

and weaknesses are and stuff like that.

So,

Travis Bader: so that'd be
infantry training center,

Angus Hilsley: Catrick, ITC.

That was ITC, So.

Um, yeah, went through there, smashed
through our, kind of, um, this side of

training and same again, progressed.

I managed to come out at the end with
the Soldier's Medal, which was, the

Soldier's Medal is something that's
not given to you by your instructors,

it's given to you by your platoon.

So the platoon do a vote, and it's,
um, on who looks out for everybody

the most, who helps people the
most, who do, who's the best.

people look to, to, to get guidance
from and they all voted for myself, um,

which was, which was really nice and
a kind of humbling experience for me.

So I got the soldier's medal and then
also I got, um, top recruiting fitness

as well, which was the first recruit.

So I got two, two awards graduating
out of ITC Cartrick, which was great.

So I got off to a good start.

Um, no kidding.

Yeah.

And my, in my military career and
Graduating from ITC Catrick, I realised

that this was definitely the career that
I wanted to pursue and I wanted to go as

far as I possibly could in the military
and get to the kind of highest echelons

I could and that was always my goal.

And that was always my aim, to go for
selection for the SAS, because when

I was younger, the first book that my
dad ever gave me was a book by Robin

Horsfall, um, an old SAS, um, serving
member, and I read it, and as soon as

I read it, I was like, That's the job.

Which book was it?

Do you remember the title?

I can't remember what it was.

It was pretty much his autobiography.

It was his whole progression through
his time in the Parachute Regiment,

then on to Selection because I think
he went through Selection two or three

times and then his career after that.

But it was the first ever book I read
and I was like, okay, this is the job.

This is what I want to do.

So, um, so yeah, moving out of, uh, So
I joined the 1st Battalion Scots Guards,

which is the ceremonial and household
division, um, for the British Army.

So we're, we're first of all frontline
soldiers, infantiers, but Our second

kind of secondary role is being posted
outside Buckingham Palace or, um, St.

James's Palace, Tower of London,
doing the Queen's Birthday Parade,

so those funny guys with the furry
hats and the red tunics, that's,

that's what I did for a year, which
was, honestly, it was a great time.

experience and I really did enjoy it.

It wasn't for me, but I made the
most of what it was and I was a

young guy just enjoying myself
in London and good for you.

Yeah, it was nice.

It was good, but luckily
I wasn't there too long.

I managed to get, I managed to get out
of there after like six or seven months.

So it wasn't, it was pretty good.

And from there I progressed onto my
battalion, which was based up in Cartrick.

So moved up to Cartrick and then I was in
battalion just doing basic kind of normal

routine training for the first six months.

And then that's when they asked me to
go on to my first leadership course.

So my junior NCO carder it's called,
which is your promotion to Lance Corporal.

And normally it's, it's something
that's, Asked of somebody after serving

maybe three or four years in the army.

And this, this was six months.

Travis Bader: So somebody in
their twenties years and you're

like how old at this point?

Angus Hilsley: Um, I was only
18 at this point, I think.

Yeah.

17 when I trained, yeah,
I was 18 years old.

Travis Bader: Wow.

Angus Hilsley: So 18 years old when
I first got put on that course and

it was, it was, yeah, it was crazy.

And I was like, I was definitely.

Not confident enough.

Like I knew that I'd done very well,
but to get put on my promotion course

at that age I was pretty unsure.

I was like, I don't know if
I can do this kind of thing.

Travis Bader: No kidding.

And you're probably in there with
a bunch of people who are maybe a

bit more seasoned in there along?

Angus Hilsley: I'm in there with guys that
have been in for like eight, ten years.

Some, some of them, like, they're
just, they hadn't focused their

career around, kind of, um, Promotion.

It was more around other things
and it started moving on.

So I was working with some guys
that were Seriously, seriously, like

seasons within the military and we do a
specific um Leadership course, so we are

different from the rest of the infantry.

So the Guards Division and the
Parachute Regiment do ours together.

Mm hmm.

So it's called HTPRCC, which
is Household Division Parachute

Regiment Centralized Courses.

Okay.

So everything that we do in terms of
promotion courses, sniper courses,

anything like that, The parachute
regiment, a household division, do

them together and we do them completely
separate away from everybody else.

We use their own instructors and we
use their own kind of like curriculum.

It's, it's completely different.

Travis Bader: Were you kind of, I don't
know, uh, given a hard time or looked

down on being the young guy in there?

No

Angus Hilsley: end,
like every day, nonstop.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know.

I just took it like for what
it was like, I understand that.

There was definitely a lot of guys
that were probably quite bitter

towards it and they were like,
what's this guy doing on here?

Like he's not done anything.

He doesn't deserve to be here.

I got it.

Like I understood.

And then that's why I kind of voiced
my opinions to my platoon sergeant

when I first got to battalion.

I was like, surely there's boys
that are more qualified and

like, and they deserve it more.

And they're like, yeah, they do probably,
but we think you've got great potential

and we want to take a risk on you.

And we want to, we want to
put you on and see how you do.

It's a

Travis Bader: bit of pressure.

Hey,

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, huge.

Yeah, so it was, it was a lot to take in.

But yeah, we done, um, so before our
promotion courses, we do pre courses.

So I've done a two week
pre course in Battalion.

And, um, There was quite a
lot of us on it actually.

It was kind of like a selection process.

So I think there was about 20 or 30
guys and you kind of just go through all

the basic stuff, fitness, um, firearms,
um, medical, all the stuff that you

are going to get assessed on and use.

And then they just put it all
together and they kind of like give

you an overall grade at the end.

And I think there was 10 of us
that went down and then, so.

Wow.

So went down onto my, um,
junior NCO carder, got on it.

There was a big course.

We had, I think a hundred and 20
people, 130 people on this course,

which is a lot for just parachute.

Um, yeah, that's like a, a huge course.

Normally they're about 60.

So, so yeah, already we had a lot
of competition, but that's good.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

And yeah, everything went well.

And then we got into the course
and Yeah, I immediately started

realizing that age definitely doesn't
matter when it comes to leadership.

It's experience definitely helps, but
I think some people either take to it

a lot quicker than others do, and then
others need to kind of build on it ever

so much, but it was something that did
come slightly easier to me, I feel.

And I think that that definitely stood
me in good stead for this course.

There was a lot of things that I
needed to learn because I was so new.

I had boys that had done two, three tours
of Afghanistan and Iraq on this course

and they, they obviously knew so much more
about combat, leadership, basic skills

and drills, like all these little things.

I was just soaking it all in.

Like, I like, I just, I
never put my ego out there.

I just stay quiet, listen
to all these guys and just

everything that they were saying.

I was just taking as much in as I could
and it was one of the biggest educational

experiences that I've ever had.

Travis Bader: Why do you feel that
the leadership portion of this seemed

to come a bit more naturally to you?

Angus Hilsley: I'm not
too sure to be honest.

Like if I go right the way back
to school, um, even in school

it was, it was much the same.

Like we used to have.

Like different kind of teams in school
for sports events and stuff like that,

like I was always made the head of the
sports teams and these kind of different

things we've done in school, like
Burns Night for you and me first night.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, so we used to have Burns
Night every year at school.

I was always the chairman for the Burns
Suppers, like they're just something

just always was quite natural to.

Yeah, can it take control or maybe not
even take control, just having a demeanor

that people find at ease to come up to
me and be like, okay, I'm, I'm stuck.

I need some help with this.

Or like, he's a fair guy.

Do you know what I mean?

I think it was my demeanor
that was the main thing that

allowed people to have a kinda.

I dunno, an approachable connection to it.

Travis Bader: Maybe it's a confidence.

Have you always been fairly fit?

Like you're, you're always
being serious, seriously

Angus Hilsley: fat.

Yeah.

Like as a young boy, I was always
playing rugby, football, like doing

track and school and like fitness was
a huge part of my life as a, as a kid.

Like, and I think that a lot of it
came from when I was reading those

books about the military, when I was
reading those books about boys that were

on SAS selection and they were like,
Talking about the hells and it's just

like, right, you need to be a different
level of fat and it's all fine and well

being a footballer, but you need to
be like a robust, robust individual.

Travis Bader: Well, that's, that's
physically fit both heart and lungs,

but that's mentally fit as well.

Angus Hilsley: Mental.

Yeah.

That's another huge part.

And I think that kind of started.

Making things in my head turn.

Okay.

I need to start preparing myself.

And that's when I just, I always
pushed myself as hard as I could

go when it came to fitness.

Playing rugby is a pretty arduous
sport and that was always good fun.

Um, but it was always
tough going, but yeah.

So I think in my life, I think it
was probably just me as a person,

like in terms of, How people could
relate to me that made me maybe

slightly better at leading people.

Travis Bader: Did you have
strong leadership role models

as a youngster in your life?

Um,

Angus Hilsley: growing up, I
would say that I definitely had

a good role model as a father.

He was very old school, strict, old
fashioned, but how things should be done.

And he was a superintendent and.

the oil rigs and he'd done that for
35 years and he was always in charge

of a lot a lot of people and he always
used to come home and like me and

my dad are The only thing me and my,
my, my dad do is either hunt or fish.

That's it.

Yeah.

We don't do anything else.

no other, no other kinda things that we,
we both enjoy is either hunt or fishing

and we always used to, that's okay.

When he came back, he always used
to take me and we would go down to

the, the local L and we would get
on a boat and go fishing and he

would sit and tell me about all.

experiences that he'd had when he
was away working, having to deal with

people from different backgrounds,
different nationalities, different,

um, seniority levels and At that time
in my life, I probably didn't pay

too much attention to the leadership
side of things, but subconsciously, I

think it probably started to soak in.

Gotcha.

And he was, he was a very good leader.

He promoted up very fast
throughout the oil industry and

like, he, he got out of the top.

So, like, he done really good.

I think a lot of that
probably came from my father.

Travis Bader: Mmm.

Well, it's, it's good to be able to have
that, uh, you know, not, not nepotistic,

but, but that sort of bloodline of it,
where you just, if you're raised in a

certain way and your outlook on life
is a certain way, you're naturally

inclined to, to move in that path.

And it sounds like you've just embraced
that path and used what you had

and then take it with the military.

And then you've tempered that
for, for something yourself.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

It was, um, it's something that I
still thank my dad for every day.

That's cool.

Just how.

Just how he rubbed off on me as a father.

And when you're growing up, you
don't always think that I've got

your best interests at heart.

But he was always telling me all for
things, but looking back in it as

an, uh, an adult and a fully grown
man and having been through my own

personal experiences of, of having
to deal with people and leadership.

Yeah, it's, uh, I can't
thank him enough for it.

Travis Bader: That's pretty cool.

So you, you spent some time as a,
um, uh, platoon commander as well.

Didn't you?

Angus Hilsley: Was it
platoon or section commander?

Section commander.

So once I finished that first
promotion course at Junior NCO

Carter, that was to Lance Corporal.

Yeah.

And I finished that course with a
distinction, top, top award you can

get in that course, which was, which
was That's when I started to solidify

my kind of confidence in myself, and
that's when I was like, okay, right Maybe

maybe I do have the capabilities now to
do what I think I can do Still hadn't

been on tour at this point though, and
at this time, this is in the height of

Afghanistan So everybody had been on
tour and that was a big thing was okay.

It might it might be a good Lance
Corporal, but he's not been on tour.

He's never been under Like, the
stress of, of contact, so I was

like, okay, right, fair enough.

Went back to my battalion, um, and then,
I think it was only six or seven months.

I was 19 years old, anyway.

It wasn't long after.

Nowhere near.

And it just happened by sheer
chance that one of the guys that was

supposed to be on it was, He wasn't
confident in his fitness abilities.

He was like, listen, I want, I need
another six months to get ready for this.

I'm not ready.

He's like, do you want it?

And I was like, I don't think
I'm ready for it either.

I mean, I've only just promoted to lance
corporal and, uh, my company commander at

the time, he was like, nah, you're on it.

Go for it.

Get your bags packed.

So I was like, okay, and this was for
the next promotion to section commander.

So I was like, right, okay, fine.

Pack my bags again.

Headed down to Brecon and
jumped on, on junior Brecon.

That's a four month long course.

It's.

very arduous first two months is
all about firearms instructing.

So you learn, I think it's about
15 different weapon systems that

you'll use within the military.

Um, and you learn how to
teach that to recruits.

Um, so that's your first two months that
you then go through all your range safety,

how to be a range conducting officer.

Um, and after that you progress on
to your two months in the field,

which is all field craft stuff.

So,

doing section attacks, all the kind of
basic skills and drills of an infantryman,

and it's going through the leadership
side of those environments, so that's

taking you as a section commander
with your second in command, which

would be a lance corporal, and putting
you under stress of fire, and under

stress of time constraints, and all
these different sorts of experiences,

and that's where they kind of put
you to the test to see if you've got

Travis Bader: And four months later,
they looked at it and they said, what?

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, four months
later, progressed through it,

got a fine, got an instructor's
recommendation at the end of it.

So an instructor's recommendation
means that they, that you've done that

well, that they want you to come back
as an instructor to the Brecon School

of Infantry, which is a big thing.

No kidding.

Yeah, so that was awesome.

So very happy with that.

You don't promote straight away.

So once you pass your course, you
need to wait a couple of months

till you can set the board.

So I finished my course and then from
there I deployed straight on to Headache

17 in Afghanistan, which was great because
this was now giving me the, the kind of

backing that I needed to everybody else.

Cause everybody else, that was their
one gripe was, okay, yeah, fine.

It might be passing these courses,
but can I actually do this when

it comes down to like the actual
What we need to do for a job.

Like when it comes down to
contact and we're like, okay.

So I was very excited to get out there.

I really wanted to go
out and prove myself.

And we had a great team of boys.

Went out, had a great tour.

Tour was, it's what it is.

But as a whole we, we
worked really well together.

Um, I had to step up and be a section
commander even though I wasn't

promoted to a section commander.

I stepped up to a section
commander, um, and I led.

Multiple patrols as a section commander
going through the thick of it, sometimes

I had to step up to a platoon commander.

You'll have, um, sorry,
a platoon sergeant.

You'll have one platoon sergeant.

So when he was away, other tasks?

Mm-Hmm.

to step up as a platoon sergeant.

So that was 20 years old and I was
stepping up to be, uh, an acting

platoon sergeant on operations.

How was that received?

Hmm.

So the boys of my peer level, it was
received very well because I had the boys.

My kind of age group and that
I used to like socialize with,

they were all like, yeah, Angus
is the man for the job for sure.

Like he's brilliant.

But the, we did have a couple of
older Lance corporals and stuff that

had been in for like 15 years and
yet they weren't happy about it.

Travis Bader: Cause that's going to
be a common thread amongst anybody

who's finding themselves thrust or
Into a leadership position or growing

into a leadership position, they're
always going to have those who look

at them and say, who is this person
to tell me what to do or to lead me.

And to be honest,

Angus Hilsley: that's one of the
great things about being a leader is

if you have the ability to be able to
communicate with people that feel like

that and still get them to do what you
want them to do, then you know that.

you're doing something right.

So I definitely had a few of
those types of people or a couple

of those types of guys in my
platoon, but it didn't bother me.

Like, I honestly didn't care because
I know that I'd been in my courses,

I'd passed it, I'd been out, I'd done
patrols, I'd proved myself, like,

if these guys didn't like it, that
was their problem, not my problem.

But being able to have the ability
to speak to them in a way that, you

know, brings you down to the same level
and you take both your egos out of it

and having that skill to communicate
with them and still being able to be

operationally effective was massive.

And I learned that very
quickly in Afghanistan.

Can

Travis Bader: you talk to me
about ego in a leadership role?

Angus Hilsley: So this is a
huge thing that I, um, talk

about in the, my business, Stoic
Leadership Academy as the ego war.

So, we can take this into any type of
environment, it doesn't have to be in

the military, but we're always going to
have people we don't get on with, always.

There's always, it doesn't matter if
they're different departments, same

department, they're more superior to us,
they're, it doesn't matter, like we're

always going to have people that we just
We don't see eye to eye with and it's been

able to have the skills as a leader to
be able to communicate with these people.

And sometimes you have to take a big
bite out of your own ego and just

accept it for what it is and say,
okay, maybe this is more my fault, even

though it's not your fault, but given
them the moral high ground or making

them feel as if they've got the moral
high ground is a huge step into canal.

Can I like deactivate, or sorry,
that's not the right word, can I?

Travis Bader: De escalating?

De

Angus Hilsley: escalating
the kind of situation.

Nullifying?

Because I think that the egos
is one of the biggest reasons

that things won't get done.

Is, oh, I'm not speaking to him because I
don't get on with it, I don't agree with

what he does, I don't agree with him.

But as a leader you need to have
the ability to be able to, see it

from their point of view, because
that's the problem, is we all think

that we're right most of the time.

Travis Bader: Of course.

Angus Hilsley: We always think that
this is the way it should be done,

because this is the way that we do
things, and this is what I've learned,

and through all my experiences, I
feel that this is the right way.

But if you look at it from
their perspective, they've had

completely different experiences,
completely different, and it's,

They've developed their own concept
of how things should be done.

They might be completely opposite, but you
need to be able to take a step back and

think, Okay, why does he think like that?

Why does he think that this
isn't the right way to do it?

And once you can start putting yourself
in, And, and those shoes, I think it's

very easy for it to be like, Okay,
listen mate, I understand that you feel

this way, I understand that I think
differently, I probably should be a little

bit more open to the way that you think.

And once you start kind of de
escalating that conflict, Things

can work out a lot, a lot easier.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

And it's funny because as a
leader, you look at something and

say, this is the way it's done.

I know this is how it's done.

I know this because of my
experiences and how I've applied it.

This is the right way to do it.

And you can have that in your head.

But I think it was general Patton
who said, don't tell a person.

How to do something, tell them
what you want to see accomplished

and let them surprise you with the
results and let them just go for it.

Angus Hilsley: Right.

Yeah, for sure.

Travis Bader: And a person can
succeed or fail in their own right.

Yeah.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, a hundred percent.

And that's another big thing
that I teach as well is, um, you.

You get, this is why I teach
anyway, you've got three

different types of leaders.

You've got power leaders, inspiring
leaders, and pleasing leaders, because

everybody's always going to have
their own approach to leadership, and

it depends what environment they're
in, depending on depends on if they

will thrive or if they will not.

So some people that are power leaders
will thrive very well in, let's say

military environments or whatever,
and then inspiring leaders will thrive

completely differently to, to those guys.

But it all depends on what
environment you're in and also

what type of leader you are.

But as you say, it's completely

If you start micromanaging
people, that's when it's just

all going to start going wrong.

Travis Bader: I found when I reached
a point where I have somebody around

me that requires micromanagement.

And then some people are just like that.

They will consistently put themselves
in a position where they need to

be micromanaged because they don't
want to accept responsibility

or whatever it might be.

I find I have to identify that really
quick and early and adios, right?

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

Cause that's, that's.

Like you're a busy guy.

Leaders are busy guys.

Like you don't have the time
to be doing stuff like that.

Like, unless they've got the willingness
to learn themselves and better themselves,

like you can't hold their hand and it's a
very, very hard thing to do, but you need

to sometimes just take that kind of step,

Travis Bader: you know, one pitfall
as a, so I started my business when

I was, I started teaching basically,
uh, the, Uh, the main parts of what

we do in Silvercore around 1994.

I was still in high school at the time.

I went through the cadet system.

I learned their, uh, version,
which was borrowed from, which is

the department of national defense
leadership training, which of course

Canada borrows from the Brits.

And, uh, uh, I, I, I learned that from
And, um, I, I put into play the little

pieces that I knew and what I'd learned
from, uh, from different places and

wanting to build people up was one of
the, uh, difficult lessons that I learned

is how to properly build somebody up.

Because you can correct a person
to a point where they're just

incapable of doing anything.

You can, uh, over praise somebody
to the point where it builds a

level of resentment in them because
the next time they do something

and that's wrong, they're like,
well, I did it so great before.

What do you mean?

Right.

So, so that, that whole balance,
that dichotomy of, of, uh, Corrective

and instructive leadership in a way
that's not micromanaging, and it's

also not providing sort of a false
confidence in the individual was

something at a young age that I found.

I had a difficult time juggling.

Is that something that
you've seen that others have?

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, it's, I noticed
it the most when I went to, so, At

the end of my career in the military,
I went to the Infantry Training

Centre, Kachik, as an instructor.

Um, and I spent the last five years there,
instructing recruits to become soldiers.

And that's when I really seen, seen that,
was when you're getting people coming

from all different experiences, all
different backgrounds to life, and you're

taking them through the same rigorous
training, and you're, you've got time

constraints, you've got, they've got to
pass certain tests, like you've got to

progress through the curriculum, because
it's, You've got six months, that's it.

It's not like you can just
keep dragging this out.

And that's when you really start
to see that some people just don't

want to help themselves, right?

They really just want everybody
to do everything for them, right?

And we used to get, I think it was
platoons of about 30 to 40 guys, and

we would take them through Obviously,
we'd literally teach them everything

from making a bed and brushing their
teeth all the way through to firing a

weapon system and doing bayonet training.

Like, we used to take them
through absolutely everything.

But you would always get two or
three people within one platoon.

So I went through at least
four or five platoons.

Mm.

Whatever.

as an instructor.

But you'd always get two or three people
that just didn't want to help themselves.

Like they just, no matter what
approach to coaching you took.

So depending on how, because you obviously
have to adapt as a leader and say, okay,

I'm going to try this approach first.

Okay, it doesn't work.

Okay, let's try this approach.

Okay, it doesn't work.

Okay.

But you can only try so many approaches
until it gets to the point where,

okay, I'm sorry, but this person
just doesn't have the will to,

Travis Bader: Yeah.

And it's detracting from everyone else.

If they're setting a low standard
and that's viewed as acceptable.

Angus Hilsley: Well, yeah.

And it's like, I was always very strict.

I've always got high standards.

I was very strict and I think
that they should have the highest

of standards at all times.

And my section that I had were great.

They always, they always used to try
and put so much time into the struggling

members and stuff, but I could always
see the point in which it turned.

So I would say the first two months.

It was a case of, I would go and show
them how to do things, I would speak to

the rest of my guys, and then they'd be
like, okay, and they would get on top of

the one person that was struggling, they'd
be like, okay, what can I do to help me,

like, do you need me to take you through
this, do you want me to show you how to

do this again, and they would always get
around them, but I could always tell the

one point in the section where everything
changed towards this person, because they

just wouldn't help themselves, there's
only so much that they could do and I

could do, and then this person was kind
of like, Is that a recourse or a bin?

So if that's the case and they, and
they're not passing requirements,

they'll get what's called back squatted.

So they'll go to the platoon
behind us, which is probably

about six to eight weeks.

They'll go back, retrain everything again.

The other thing, they'll
get one more chance.

And then after that they get brown layered
and they'll just get told to leave.

Yeah.

Which needs to be, at the end
of the day, you're training for

something that you can't really have
There's no much margin for error.

Do you know what I mean?

When it gets down to it?

So,

Travis Bader: you know, I used
to spend a lot of time trying to

research ways to bring the best
people on that I can on the team.

Uh, how, how can I write the best
copy for a, uh, uh, helped wanted

at, how can I do the best interview
to kind of weed people out?

How can I, and I go through all these
different things, uh, And I've learned

that some people that just wouldn't pass
the bar on this, uh, testing system that

I'd created prior could actually be really
good people to work with and other people

who could just do phenomenally, like I'd
look at CVS of a law enforcement come

through and they'd have Four pages of all
these different little two day and three

day courses that they're an expert in.

They go through and it's like, man,
this person looks great, but if they

didn't have those core values that their
mother should have taught them, right.

Yeah.

It was your loss.

So instead of getting very good at
hiring, I took a different mindset.

And get very good at firing, which
has always been a very difficult

thing for me, because I want
to see the best in everybody.

I want to see everyone succeed, but I
kind of changed my perspective on get

good at firing and it's not like the
Donald Trump apprentice you're fired.

It's look at you're not working out here.

Um, it's clear you're
passionate about other things.

You know what?

I know people who work in the
area that you're passionate about.

Let's get you over into a different area.

Let's make sure you've
got a positive reference.

Let's make sure you got a little
bit extra money in your pocket

as you go out of the door.

And just, I mean, when I first
started, I was like, why would

I pay a person who's absolutely
just humping the dog here, right?

A bit extra to get out.

And in the long run, I've found it
creates a much Better environment

and I'm still learning every day.

I've learned it

Angus Hilsley: for sure, though,
but it is the right way to go.

I mean, you can only
take something so far.

And then you need to start thinking of how
you could best help that person move on.

And a big part of, um, well,
stoicism, what I My business

is Stoic Leadership Academy.

One of the virtues of Stoicism is justice.

And with justice, that's
what it's all about.

Even though you might not agree
with somebody or see eye to eye with

somebody, you're still gonna have basic
kind of level of understanding as a

leader that this person isn't for me,
but I still want to see them do well.

And it's all about helping that
person that might not came from the

best background or they might not
be that nicer person in general.

Like you might not think that actually a
good person, but you still want to provide

them with as much help as you possibly can
and kind of give them that direction that

when you can, uh, when you Once they leave
your environment, you can say, I did as

much as I possibly could for that person.

Travis Bader: I agree with that.

And I think, and it might not be the case.

Everyone's perspective is always
going to be different and be like,

well, I'll go 50, 50 with you.

Right.

We did, it didn't work out.

Here's we've split it down the middle.

And I found.

I have to take a mindset where
I'm giving 60 percent or 70%.

Yeah.

And you just, you're taking the
high, high ground, which is beyond

reproach and in the other person's
head, maybe they're thinking it's

50, 50, even though in your head,
you're like, no, no, this isn't right.

Angus Hilsley: It's true though.

Yeah.

It's so true.

Right.

And.

Yeah, it's a hard one as a leader, it
is, it's very hard, but that's something

that all you can do is, is grow as a
person from your own experiences and,

and kind of try and better yourself and
approach things a little bit better and

it comes to people eventually, I think
having that kind of broad dynamic of

having all these different leadership
types that I talked about earlier on.

So I've, I've got a chart that I use
that I teach and it's not about being

a power leader or being an aspiring
leader or being a pleasing leader.

It's about having the right ratio
of your pie chart of all three.

You need to assess the situation.

You need to assess the person that
you're looking at and you need to say,

what, who, what leader do I need to be?

For this person to make it work
and I think just having that

flexibility and adaptability in
your Your skills is, is one of the

best tools you'll learn as a leader.

Travis Bader: Do you have any examples
of some particularly inspiring leaders

that you've encountered or times when
you've applied your leadership principles

in a way that you look back and like,
man, that worked out really well.

And, uh, conversely to that, any examples
of times that everything kind of went

Angus Hilsley: wrong.

So it's first starting off on good
leaders, um, that I've had within my

life when I very first turned up to my
battalion we had this company commander

and He was to this day probably the
best leader I've ever seen in my life

Travis Bader: Hmm,

Angus Hilsley: and I never realized
he was the best leader until we got

our next company commander who was
the worst leader Like, I don't know

Travis Bader: Was it just because of
the comparison this guy was saying?

So good that the other
one looks terrible or both

Angus Hilsley: of them renowned for
their respective kind of positions.

So it wasn't just our
judgment as soldiers.

It was, it was the truth, but
the first company commander we

had, he was literally everything
that you would want as a leader.

He was.

Just inspiring, fit, robust,
knowledgeable, like, very compassionate,

empathetic, like he was, he had it
all and it was just natural to him.

He was one of those people that just
people would, would want to follow.

And he was kind of, I would say one
of my mentors for the, probably the

first five years of my army career.

And definitely the
reason to where I got to.

Um, Yeah.

On the flip side to that, the
one we got next was horrendous.

Morale was at an all time,
all time low with that guy.

But because, what would he do
that would cause morale to be low?

Always thought about himself
and never about his men.

So when I was talking about my three
types of leaders, power leaders,

and each type of leaders, roles.

They've got good and bad.

And with power leaders, a lot of
the time, it's for their own ego.

Everything they do is for their ego.

It's not, it's not for their men.

It's for, okay, I want to make myself
look good, or I want to get some

sort of gain from what I'm doing.

And that's what it is.

And that's all he ever did.

Everything was always
to make him look good.

But the rest of the boys measurable.

Like if he would, He would make us stand
outside for hours and hours and hours

just while he was sorting something out
in his office where he could have just

told us, okay, go away, lads, go and
get some food or whatever, small things

like that, small, small things that
over a course of two years, that gets to

the point where guys are just like, I'm
not, I'm not doing what you want, like,

Travis Bader: isn't it funny how, when you
start putting others ahead of yourself,

all of a sudden it builds you up.

Angus Hilsley: So that's
one of the biggest things.

I believe as a leader, if you start
putting people's futures as a forefront

of what you're trying to achieve, and
don't think about anything else of your

own personal gain, just really want the
best outcome for that person, everything

in your life will start just automatically
following the way you want it to follow.

That is brilliant advice.

It's once we stop looking at ourselves
and start looking at other people and

just really wanting the best out of
everybody that we're working with.

I think all the other things that we
worry about just kind of start fading out.

And before we know it, we'll look back
in 10 years and be like, Oh my God, like

I'm actually the person I wanted to be.

And all I've done is help
people wanted to help.

Do you know what I mean?

I think it's, Such a simple tool that
people forget about because it's only

natural that we want to think about
our own best interests but once you

start thinking about other people's
more than yourself, that selflessness.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Well, when you're, when you're
running a sports team, or you're

running a business, you're running an
organization, what's the best interest?

Well, for a sports team, it's where
we're cohesive and we're winning

games and we're, we're progressing
and everyone's doing well, right?

The business you're, you're making money,
you're working together as a team, right?

So people might not necessarily look
at an individual's best interest.

They say, well, this isn't the
best interest for the company.

We want to get from point A to point B,
we want to be able to earn more money.

And they kind of lose sight of the,
the Individual that's involved,

that's required to take you there.

And they'll say, well, come on,
let's, let's put some more in.

Cause we've got to get
wherever it might be.

But I think it takes a keen individual to
be able to identify another individual and

what their strengths or weaknesses might
be, because if they're really struggling

and they're having a difficult time.

And you're putting that pressure on for
them so that your sports team or your,

your business can get to the next level.

Um, you're not thinking about
them as an individual anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And maybe the best thing you
can do for that person is say,

this isn't the place for you.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

Right.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

Could not agree more.

It just all depends.

It's your, your, your decision as a
leader where you need to make, and

it's a, an example I've got of this is.

So when we were instructing recruits, we
used to have people from some horrendous

backgrounds, really bad, like literally
this was their last chance in life, and

you know the funny thing was most of these
people were always the best soldiers.

Travis Bader: It's funny
how that works, eh?

Angus Hilsley: Always the best.

Why do you

Travis Bader: think that

Angus Hilsley: is?

Because the

, they've just got everything to gain.

They've got nothing to lose.

Mm.

It's just they've got,
they burnt the ships.

Uh, and they're humble though.

They're like, right.

They were always the humblest.

Like we had people that used to
live in the streets that were drug

addicts that used to go through
horrendous forms of, um, abuse.

And they were always the best.

They were always, I think just having
the cohesion of having friends around

them for the first time, having.

some form of kind of not rank
structure, but people to look up to

having food, like just basic things.

I think to them it was everything.

And they, they, they just, they
appreciated everything they got

and they really made the most of
the opportunity that they had.

But going back to the example that,
um, that we were talking about before,

when you're dealing with these type of
people, um, it really does make you.

When you're focusing, like, cause I, it's
hard to say but I, you end up kind of

picking your favourites within a section,
not that you'd ever say that, but you

always kind of see like, And it was always
the people that had the worst backgrounds

that became your favorite, I feel.

I feel like people that came from
privileged backgrounds were always hard

to deal with, they, like, they just, they
thought they were better than everybody

else and you had a lot of things that you
needed to kind of break out of them, so

you could kind of remold them as soldiers.

Whereas these guys were just, you
wanted them to do well, because they

knew that this was their last shot.

Travis Bader: Maybe a bit of it, have you
heard of the Sports Illustrated curse?

No, they say you get on the cover
of sports illustrated and all of a

sudden you're going to go downhill.

Yeah.

Well, if you're on the cover of
sports illustrated, it's probably

because you're top of your game.

Where else do you have to go?

Right.

Angus Hilsley: Exactly.

There's no, there's, there's
no, there's nowhere else to go.

Travis Bader: Right.

You can, you can maybe maintain for
a while, but at some point you're

going to start going downhill and.

Angus Hilsley: Exactly.

And what we were talking about before
though, like seeing these people.

So when you focus your attention
on these people and take yourself

out of the equation, because in
the army, there's no personal gain.

You're not getting anything
from this apart from your

fulfillment at the end, right?

That's it.

You don't get any more money.

Like you don't get respect of your peers.

You get your spectator peers.

Yeah, that's true.

And that's, that's what ended up
happening with me after my second

platoon was I got the top instructor
out of the whole battalion.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it was, I was dealing with these
types of people and focusing all my energy

on these people and you don't realize
it at the time, like you're just focused

on, okay, I want to get this guy through
the next stage of training, I want to get

him to pass out, I want to get him to be
a soldier, move on his battalion and you

don't think about your own personal gain
at all because in the military there's

not really much to gain, but that sense of
fulfillment at the end when they pass out

and they're passing out parade, one of the
best feelings I've ever had in my life.

Travis Bader: Well, doesn't Simon
Sinek say something about that?

Do you ever, do you ever,

Angus Hilsley: I'm the Bitcoin reason why.

Travis Bader: Right.

Okay.

That was good.

That was a good one.

And he talks about, you know, true
leaderships are there to look after

the people that they're leading.

That's, that's their role.

It's not to, uh, you know, It's
not for you to be awesome and

look at, look at this great job.

Your, your job literally is
you're, you're a humble servant

for them to make them awesome.

Angus Hilsley: You need, you need to
be, you need to think about your guys.

And if you just think about your guys,
you will be a good leader in some respect,

like maybe not in other areas, but if
you just put your men or your women or

whoever, like an army, it was always
had my boys in front of everything

else and made sure that they were okay.

everything else was normally fine.

Like, and it's, that was one thing
that the army does teach you very

well because they give you, the
army love acronyms and formats and

those, and it's literally, as a lance
corporal or as a section commander,

before you do anything to yourself,
you've got to go around sectional

platoon and make sure they're fine.

So before you change your
socks, before you your own food

before you clean your own rifle.

Before you do any of this, you're
going around all your, all your

guys, making sure that they've
got all the things that they need.

They're all doing fine.

Their morale is okay.

Once all that's done, then you
start focusing on yourself.

Travis Bader: How do you
turn around poor morale?

I've been in it earlier.

We're talking about some of the
work that I've done across Canada.

At one point I was doing all of
the armor car companies for British

Columbia, their firearms, repair and
maintenance, and, and Uh, a couple

of different multinational ones.

And one of the multinational
organizations, uh, had gone

and turned over numerous times
and numerous, uh, name changes.

And you could see for years, the
morale sliding and sliding and sliding.

Uh, if you were to come into, let's
say, an, in a, you come to a platoon

that you've watched the morale just go
straight downhill or a business where

the morale has been having been an issue.

What would you do to try
and, uh, Change that around.

Um,

Angus Hilsley: so whatever environment
it was that was coming into, if it

was a platoon or a section or if it
was whatever, a business, sports,

whatever it would be, if you're coming
into work with a team, um, there's a

progression system that I use on my
course and principles that I use, but

you need to, first of all, observe.

So you need to just step back and
watch a day in the life of this team.

How do they work?

Who speaks to who?

Who doesn't talk to who?

how do they communicate?

How do they work?

What's their efficiency?

Like you need to just step back and
watch them and from there you'll be

able to gauge what's wrong and then
depending on what's wrong that's

when you need to start as a leader.

You need to start thinking about ways
you need to start problem solving.

Problem solving is a huge
part about being a leader.

You start problem solving your way
around how you're going to do that.

I feel that bond and interaction
is the biggest thing for morale.

It's huge.

In the military, the bond that
you get with the people that you

work with is like no other bond
you'll ever get with anybody.

It's crazy.

Like, I still speak to guys
every now and then after years

and it's just like, we've Yeah.

spoke yesterday, do you know what I mean?

Like you create a bond
that's unbelievable.

And when you can create a team that's
got such a strong bond together, it

doesn't matter what job you're doing or
how bad the job is or how horrendous the

task is or whatever it is, it doesn't
matter because if you're in it together,

you just laugh and joke about it and
you just help each other through it.

So I think, Bond and team cohesion is
the first step to having good morale.

If you, if people don't get on and you're
just arguing and bickering and all these

egos that we're talking about before, if
there's too many egos in there, if you

can't create a team that works, you're
never going to have a team of morale.

Travis Bader: Uh, a shared
adversity I found is, is something

that's pretty effective as well.

Huge.

It's massive.

Angus Hilsley: And once you start, once
you start having a team, that's kind

of, let's say weathered and they've
been through experiences together

and they start going through hard,
hard situations, then it's going

That team will just be unbreakable.

They'll go through anything you
want them to go through and it

doesn't matter how good or how bad.

That bond that they have, as a leader, you
probably won't even have to do very much.

Because their bond will be that good
that they can just work with each other

and their morale will always be good.

That's one thing that I always really
loved about the military, was no matter

how bad things were, it was just,
there's always a way to make fun of

somebody or have a laugh and like, you
just, you don't take things seriously.

You just, you just do it together
because you're in it together

and you just get through it.

And the thing is you do it for each other.

That's a very hard thing to do
outside of the military though.

How do you make people work for each other
and not make them work for the company?

That was going to be

Travis Bader: my question.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

That's the hardest thing.

So in the military, you work
with each other because.

When it comes down to it, your life's on
the line, and you're looking after their

life, and you're looking after the guys
left and right here, or behind you, or

whatever it is, but at the end of the day,
you're looking after each other's lives.

So, when it comes down to it, like, the
bond that you build is with each other,

because, you know, if you get it wrong,
then it's gonna have serious consequences.

So you take things very seriously,
but when you come out, And, uh, kind

of the business world or whatever
it may be, it's very hard to make

people work for each other rather
than think, Oh, well, no, this is

just for the company's best interest.

Like they just want to make more money
out of us or do you know what I mean?

You need to focus the gain as a team
rather than outside of that team.

And for the company, it needs
to be more towards how are we

going to better each other?

How are we going to.

What are we going to get out of this?

Do you know what I mean?

Travis Bader: Well, maybe, yeah,
by within a company rewarding.

Maybe it might not be the top earner
that's getting the reward that month, but

as a person who's provided that top order,
the ability to all the leads for their

sales, or they busted their butt to make
sure that they had everything in order.

So the other person could go out and do
whatever it might be, and maybe changing

that reward structure of for sure

Angus Hilsley: that like, and you read
all about it, as you said, about Simon

Sinek with his leadership, but he uses
Costco as one of the main example,

because they've got one of the best, um,
uh, Kind of reward system in the world.

And like, when you look at their company
growth from way back in 1980 or 90, when

they first started, and then you look
at their growth and everybody was like,

oh, there's no way that's going to work.

Like that's crazy.

And then you just see
it gradually over time.

It's just like, what do they
do for their reward system?

So they, they give them.

Shares in the company, they give them,
I think it's an unbelievable benefits

package that's like the best you can get.

Um, they give them, I think more
time off than any other company.

They pretty much give them more perks
than what most companies do, but it works

because people are happy to work there.

Travis Bader: I think there's got to
be a, um, a balance to that as well.

Angus Hilsley: For

Travis Bader: sure.

Angus Hilsley: You need to figure
out what works for you in terms of.

Like productivity and you're
not going to start losing money

Travis Bader: because you look at Twitter.

Remember when Elon took
over Twitter and he's

Angus Hilsley: like, it's
got 80 percent of it, and

Travis Bader: it's still running
and doing what it's got to be doing.

It shows you

Angus Hilsley: that doesn't it?

Like you can be very brutal and things
can still work, but it's, I think it's

just all about your, Your business
though, and your kind of people that

you have working for that business and
how you want the image of your business

to look like, for instance, Elon Musk
didn't care at all about censorship.

So he's just like, okay, I'm cutting 80
percent of the people that check that.

So it's, it's all about how you
want your company to look and Costco

have nailed it the way that they
do it and people are happy to work

for them for a long period of time.

And another one that Costco does is
they've got a great leadership program.

Okay.

So taking people from when they first join
and working with them and educating them

and coaching them up through the kind of
seniority rank structure of the company.

And yeah, it works.

And you look at the figures and the
charts that's in that book and it's,

it's unbelievable because for somebody
to look at that kind of business idea

right at the very start of launching a
business, you'd be like, that's craziness.

You're, you're, you're just
going to be bleeding money.

Like, but it works.

Like if you give people That
a little bit more and show

them that you care about them.

They'll give back a little bit more.

Travis Bader: And they have those amazing
hot dogs that always stay the same price.

For one, 1.

50.

That's right.

Angus Hilsley: Crazy.

It's a, it's dangerous
game going in there.

I love it.

I love

Travis Bader: it.

Um, I was researching those hot dogs.

I thought they were like Nathan's hot
dogs, which I like as well, but, uh,

they make their own, they got their
own operation to keep costs down.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

Oh, they're so good, man.

It's just, it's a highlight of my day.

Whenever I go to Costco.

I

Travis Bader: don't know how a person
could ever go hungry between Ikea

breakfasts and Costco hot dogs or lunch.

It's

Angus Hilsley: the dream.

It's so good.

Not good for the

Travis Bader: waistline.

No, no.

Um, So yeah, Steve jobs, he, I forget
who he was talking with, uh, but there

is an interview, I think it was in Forbes
and they're just talking about how you

can take a highly productive, highly
motivated individual and you put them

into a team environment of underachievers
and how quickly that person can.

It just becomes an underachiever
with the rest of them.

And likewise, you take this
underachiever, put them into a

highly productive environment,
how quickly they turn that around.

And all of a sudden they might
not be ace number one star, but,

Angus Hilsley: but they're,

Travis Bader: but they're
higher than what they started.

Exactly.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

And it's like, that's
the influence of a team.

Like if you've got huge, yeah.

If you've got a team that's down
in the dumps all the time, morale's

low guarantee that there's, they're
not going to change their ways.

It takes somebody very, very.

Powerful or inspiring or just an all
around good leader to change that.

There's a good example that um,
Jocko Willink uses when he was a SEAL

instructor and they had these They do
the boat races and there was, I think

it was boat two was always winning.

They had a, uh, a platoon commander
who was just an astounding leader.

So good.

Always front of the pack.

Always the first ones to win every event.

It's just unbelievable.

And then they had, I think
it was boat six or whatever.

Always last.

Morale was low.

Just never won anything.

And then they swapped leaders.

And I think it was boat
six won the next one.

Really?

So it just shows you, like, even
though a team's I think the most

important about having a bond, if
you've got the right leader, they

can make the, all the difference.

Travis Bader: And there's a
psychological component to that as well.

The individuals will say, well,
we got the top leader on our team.

We're going to do better.

It's like the Nike effect.

If you're wearing Nikes,
you're going to jump higher.

You're going to run faster, right?

Angus Hilsley: Exactly.

Like it's sometimes it's all just
a kind of placebo effect, but at

the end of the day, it's like those
guys that were coming last, their

fitness didn't change in the space of.

Like 20 minutes, I mean, they were
already capable of winning that they

just needed the right leadership.

So it just shows when, when you've
got the right person for the job and

they're, they can always change a team
regardless of their, their output.

Travis Bader: Now, one thing I've always
kind of wondered about, cause you talk

about like bonding, morale, it's like
in the military working with the troops

and the respect you have for, let's say
a section commander who's looking after

You before looking after themselves.

Cause of course they're going to get
in crap of their immaculate, their

kits immaculate, their weapons in
order and nobody else's is right.

Because that's, that's a poor leader.

Oh, it works.

Um, but there's going to be a
close sort of bond between the

section commander, their section.

Yeah.

Platoon commander is going to have less
of a bond company commander is going to

have less of a bond with that section.

Right.

Battalion commander.

And the further up the food chain, it
goes, there's a more detached, uh, role.

It's like, just like, that's why you have
Uh, an officer's mess and you got the

general ranks mess and they, they kind of,
kind of keep the different ranks apart.

Yeah.

Um, that can be difficult in the
workplace to the, what, to an individual

who, let's say he was in the section
commander position and he's being

promoted up, but he's still in that
same, or she is still in that same

workplace in the same environment.

They don't have a separate
mess that they're going into.

They don't have a separate group
structure that they're dealing with.

Yeah.

Um, is that something you've ever seen or
dealt, had to deal with, with people or

like, how, how are those interpersonal.

Uh, relationships going to change
as they progress as a leader.

Angus Hilsley: Um, I think
it's all about staying humble.

I think it's with a lot of
people, power goes to their head.

So when they start promoting up, they're
like, oh yeah, I'm a sergeant now.

I'm not going to speak to a
corporal or I'm not going to

speak to a lance corporal.

There's no way to speak to
a private outside of work.

I think power for some people is.

It has a very negative effect
on them as a leader, and I think

I would say majority of people actually
kinda sometimes let it go of their head.

Mm-Hmm.

. But you need to have that outlook that
if, if your privates aren't working

for you or don't respect respect
you, you're not gonna get the desired

effect of what you want to achieve.

Like Mm-Hmm.

, you need to have the same
relationship even though you might

not socialize with 'em as much,
or you might not see them as much.

You still need to.

Know their first names.

You still need to be able to walk
up to them and have a conversation.

You should know Roughly what's going
on in their life, maybe not in depth

But you still need to know how they're
doing like if they've just had a baby.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, doesn't matter how far up you go.

Like I've worked under some unbelievable
leaders that are in charge of 100 plus

men and they could tell you the first
names of every single one of them.

And they can probably tell
you a little bit about them.

So it's all about, it's all
about how much you care.

Like, and as long as you care
and you care about your men,

regardless of what position you're
in, they'll always work for you.

They'll always understand that you can
never, you have the same relationship

as when I was a Lance Corporal
hanging out with all my privates.

They know that I can't hang about
them in that sense because I've

got to uphold myself to certain
standards and a kind of a position.

But as long as I care about them
and as long as I still interact

with them with a level of respect,
they're always going to respect me.

I think once as long as I care about
them, Letting things go to your head

and you start not respecting people
is very quick for you to lose that.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

One thing I noticed, if someone's going
to tell me that they're the boss, that

they're the leader, they've already lost.

Angus Hilsley: They've already, exactly.

Straight away.

Like sometimes the best and the highest
leaders are the most humble people in

the room that you would never expect.

Travis Bader: I very often, I find
that the, just salt of the earth.

You'd never expect, it was like,
I flew into, um, Uh, Terrace and

was at a friend's, uh, lodge area.

He's got Skeena Spade fly fishing lodge.

And, and, uh, we're
talking back and forth.

He's like, you know, actually the
owner of Patagonia is in town.

He's doing, he's doing a talk with
a local store because they have

some world class fishing over there.

I'm like, oh yeah, owner of Patagonia,
they're talking all about this guy.

And then they start describing him.

I'm like, wait a minute.

This guy was on the flight
that I flew in with just flying

business class, going in, right.

Wearing old Patagonia clothing, old stuff.

That's all good.

Like you would never even notice it.

Right.

It's just, just regular dude.

Right.

And sure.

Multi multi multi millionaire.

Right.

Angus Hilsley: Just shows
you that doesn't that.

Right.

And it's, I've guaranteed he's probably
one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet.

Travis Bader: I'm sure.

I wish I had a chance to talk to them.

I even knew who he was.

I just thought odd.

Cause I'm always profiling, I get on
the plane and especially when you're

going over, it's like, okay, so
that one, this person is an angler.

They're going to be, Oh, this
person is going to be working out.

Angus Hilsley: But, uh, checking
out your surroundings always.

Of course.

Yeah, definitely.

No, honestly, I couldn't agree more.

I think if we, if we want to talk a
little bit more about role models that

I had, one of my dad's best friends
was, um, they were very close together.

He was a big part of my life growing up.

Still is a big part of my life just now.

And, uh, And he left, I live in a
very rural place in Scotland, left

there, went to business school in
London and progressed through it.

Now he's the president of one
of the biggest companies in

Hong Kong, like huge, huge.

And this guy is still wearing the
same jeans he wore 20 years ago.

Like, if you looked at him, you
would think that they had no money.

I don't, and that's probably another
guy that I like to kind of use as a role

model is just the most humble, pleasant
down to earth guy you would, you would

ever meet and he would, he would buy
a drink for anybody in the bar, you

know, he's just one of those types of
guys just, and he would sit down and

speak to them, but he's actually just

Travis Bader: huge guy, inspiring
leader, doesn't have to show it,

doesn't have to put it in your
face and rub your face in it,

Angus Hilsley: and it's, it does instantly
make an assessment on some day based off,

Travis Bader: So there's also, um,
the wing I've been watching the wing,

um, that, that looks interesting.

Can you tell me about what the wing

Angus Hilsley: is?

Yeah.

So it's, uh, my new business
endeavor, um, so I originated

from one of my best friends.

He unfortunately lost his five month old
daughter, um, and lost her a little Iris.

And, uh, when he was going through
that grieving process, it had just,

uh, overwhelming kind of amount of guys
reaching out to him, just offering support

and just being there for him to, to help
him through that kind of rough time.

And from that, you got this idea thinking,
okay, men need more of a support network.

Like we need something as a collective
where men feel comfortable to

speak to other men about similar
situations that there have been in.

And And from that he, he came up with
this idea of the wing and he came to

me and he's like, what do you think?

And I was like, yeah, I think it
sounds amazing to me personally

or something that's very close to
my heart is men's mental health.

And I think that men should have
as much, um, resources and they

should have as much support as they
could possibly have available to

them in terms of mental health.

And we've got a massive problem
in today's society with suicide.

And I think that once we talk this over.

We, um, we came up with this kind of
forum now that we've got, there's six, six

guys in there that they're all qualified
and, um, we've got a counselor, we've

got a nutritionist, we've got a personal
trainer, mental health and addiction

coach, I'm doing leadership, um, and
then we've got one more on mindset.

And um, These are all certified guys
in loads of different areas, loads of

experience, like over, I think we've got
90 years experience or something in the

military alone, and then they've got all
their other things, and then we've pretty

much just created a community for men that
provides them with all this support and

help in one, you know, um, school network
and it's literally a case of you sign up,

comment, and you've got access to all this
information on all those things that I've

just, um, said to you and it's just a good
way for men to be able to take control

of their lives a little bit better.

So in terms of if they're feeling
depressed, they could maybe

start changing their nutrition,
because we all know nutrition is

a huge part about how we feel.

Start changing your nutrition,
maybe a little bit more awareness

to your nutrition side of things.

But not only that, it's also got an
open forum in there where anybody can

post, and it's made to be relatable
for men to be able to find other

men in the same situations as them.

So, let's say for instance, you've got
an addiction problem, I had an addiction

problem, I've been in the wing for
six months, I've went through all the

videos and the kind of training that's
in there, I'm now doing really well.

I've came out the other side of it.

I'm now posting about all
the progress that I'm making.

It's for you to be able to come and
read my posts and be like, okay,

that's exactly where I am just now,
but I know that this is achievable

and you can reach out to myself and
you can say, okay, how was this?

How did, how did you do this?

Blah, blah, blah.

And you can kind of just create
some really good relationships

with like minded people.

And at the end of the day, We all know
that it's hard for men to actually

reach out and to say that they've got
a problem and I think when you go to

a counsellor or you go to let's say an
addiction coach or anything, you're kind

of admitting that you've got a problem
but with this it's just a nice relaxed

open forum where you come in you've
got six areas that you can improve your

life with and it's just a very easy
Nice network that I think will really,

really be beneficial for a lot of guys.

Travis Bader: You know, I, I find
some interesting things in there.

So I've, uh, We're going back, Neil
Smith, um, did a podcast with him,

uh, he and Bear Grylls are the co
founders of a, uh, an app called

metal and it's men's mental fitness.

They call it, and they've got
different things and they trying

to gamify and amplify it and have
peoples where they can, uh, check

into these different things.

And he's saying that the number one
killer of men in the UK between, I

forget what the age span, I think it
was like 25 and, you know, I think

45, or maybe it was a larger gap.

Number one killer is
men killing themselves.

And he says, I think he
says, don't quote me on it.

I think those stats apply
throughout the world.

Yeah, definitely.

For sure.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah.

I was looking at Canada.

Canada is pretty much the same.

Travis Bader: Is it?

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, it's, it's crazy.

Travis Bader: So there's an issue
there and people are identifying that

there's a problem and people have
generally treated, um, you know, Men's

mental health in the same way that
they treat women's mental health.

Okay.

Let's sit down.

Let's talk about it.

Let's like you say, admitting
that you have a problem, men don't

want to admit they have a problem.

I got it sorted out.

I'm supposed to be strong.

Angus Hilsley: Exactly.

Yeah.

And that's, that, that's what
we're trying to kind of like

disarm is the fact that men aren't
admitting they've got a problem.

It's just that they want to do
better than what they currently are.

So it's not a case of.

Me admitting I've got an addiction
problem, it's just, okay, I know that

I'm not doing well, I would like to
improve my life, I'm going to join

this, start improving these areas
of my life, and then, when they look

back on it, they'll be like, okay,
yeah, I did have an addiction problem

that I've now managed to solve.

Travis Bader: One of the things that
really struck me about what you're

talking about here, as, as a huge
positive, Is, um, that sense of

community talking with other people.

I mean, uh, bill W did it with
his 12 step program, right?

With, he got your, after your 12 steps
and he'd find someone else and you're in

with, but the, I believe it was the same
podcast with, uh, with Neil, I did there.

And he's talking about, you know, you
got that one person in your life that

you can talk to, or you can confide
in, or as a man be able to turn

around and, uh, you know, Talk about
these things that are vulnerable.

Yeah.

And the number of people who private
messaged me personally, uh, or posted

on social media or through YouTube or
different places or emailed our office

and said, that was a really cool episode.

Um, I don't have anybody.

It'd be cool if I had somebody, I don't
have any, the number of people that

have come up and said, I have nobody.

Angus Hilsley: It was, it

Travis Bader: was, yeah.

And I, and honestly, as I look at it,
cause I'd follow up with these people

and the thing that I found over and over
again, it wasn't that they had nobody.

It wasn't that they didn't have anybody.

It was that they didn't feel they could
reach out and talk about these things

because I'm can almost guarantee you
those other people in their life would

turn around and say the exact same thing.

I don't have anybody who
I can say these things to.

Angus Hilsley: And it's, yeah,
it's crazy just how, how little

support they think they have.

Right.

When, when they do have support, but
it's just how they approach that support.

Travis Bader: Right.

And, and even if you don't think you
have the support within your, in your,

your circle, uh, David Ward, some
people who follow, uh, Myself or other

people within the same social media
circles, uh, will know David Ward.

I think his, uh, Instagram
handle is bushwookie.

Yeah.

Um, XPP CLI.

And I was talking with a friend
of mine on Christmas, uh, sub

Lavois and said, how you doing?

Not good.

He says, what's going on?

Oh, one of the guys starts going
through telling me about David

here, tried to take his own life.

Right.

Um, Ended up, uh, not succeeding and,
uh, he's got some life changing, uh,

repercussions from this, but an individual
who was under the influence of alcohol

at the time, during a dark time of the
year, both literally and figuratively

for a lot of people, uh, feeling like he
didn't have support or others in his life

he could reach out to, uh, And the massive
amount of people that have rallied around

him and continue to touch base with him
and the people's lives he has touched in

a positive way, despite that negative,
um, dark moment in his life has been able

to turn into something very positive.

So even if people don't think they have
it directly in front of them, there's

others out there, maybe something
like the wing is a perfect place to.

For sure.

I

Angus Hilsley: think that's a
perfect example of, of, of what's

going on out there in the world.

And at the end of the day, I don't
think that we can have enough

support for it, you know what I mean?

I think as long as we keep approaching
this in different ways and providing

loads of different kind of, um, areas for
men to kind of try to improve themselves

mentally or physically or whatever it may
be, spiritually, like as long as we've,

We're trying to develop as many ways as
possible to try and solve this problem.

I think we'll, we'll make,
make a big difference.

Travis Bader: And I think the other
part is being able to surround

yourself with other people who
have like, uh, aspirations.

Yeah.

I mean, if you're sitting in the
pub and you're like, I'm going to

be physically fit, I'm going to
be mentally, I want to work on my

spiritual side, whatever it might be.

And all your mates are looking
at you like, Who is this guy?

Right?

Oh,

Angus Hilsley: for sure.

Like if you're hanging around
people that don't want to have any

ambition in their life and they're
quite happy doing things that are

having a detrimental effect on you.

You'll never change your life.

Travis Bader: And oftentimes you don't
know that detrimental effect that's

happening when you're in the thick of it.

Angus Hilsley: No, you need
to get outside of that.

And you need to be around people
that are doing the things that

you want to do for you to realize,
okay, right, wait a minute here.

There's the, I need to make a change.

Yeah.

And that's not saying that
you need to start cutting out

your friends in your life.

Sometimes you do.

Maybe you got to pull the weeds.

Sometimes you need to, but sometimes
you just need to prioritize how much

time you spend with certain people.

For instance, I'll have people in my
life that don't have any ambition or

any desire to do anything better for
themselves, still love them as a person,

still love hanging out with them.

But if I'm wanting to actually grow
and improve myself, they're not the

types of people I'd hang around with.

Travis Bader: Totally.

Angus Hilsley: I've got my
group of friends that I'd hang

around with that are hustlers.

Yeah.

They're always after it.

Yeah.

And it's, yeah, it's honestly,
I'm very excited for it.

Will.

B.

M.

We'll be going live on the 13th of May.

Right now we're just
having a waiting list.

So it's, if anybody is interested,
it's just the wing on Instagram,

just underscore the wing
and you can follow the wing.

And when we do go live, people
can come and have a look at it.

But right now we're just building
building all our content.

So it's going to be a case of once you
join it, jump in, you're going to have

um, three videos from each person that you
can work through and then there's going

to be little bits of homework, there's
going to be recommended books that we

recommend you read, um, there's going to
be fitness challenges, there's going to be

loads of different things in there, loads
and loads and it's, yeah, very exciting.

Travis Bader: Um, and what
about for, um, stoic leadership?

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, stoic
leadership is going well right now.

I'm still moving through my
proof of concept for my business.

Um, so predominantly I'm targeting
my, um, business towards corporate.

Um, and I want to be trying to focus on
taking all my experiences from a military

side of things and converting it into
kind of relatable and usable tool in the

corporate world because I've been through
quite a lot of leadership courses outside

of the army and with businesses and these,
but these leadership courses are good at

allowing you to improve certain outside
skills to make you a better person.

So let's see if that's body
language reading or communication

or all these types of things
that refine you as a person.

I think that.

these courses are very good at, it doesn't
give you a step by step plan of how to

be a better leader in the thick of it.

Do you know what I mean?

In terms of if you're walking into
a new job or a new environment or a

stressful environment, you need to
have a layout in your head of how

you are going to be a good leader.

And yes, like all these things, Improving
all these things are going to make

you a better person, but sometimes you
just need to be able to think back.

Okay, on that course I learned, I
need to do this, this, this and this.

And going through that process
will allow you to make your

team the way you want it to be.

Travis Bader: If there's one thing
the military is good for, it's

been able to systemize things

Angus Hilsley: massively,

Travis Bader: get a lot of top level
information into a very simple format.

Angus Hilsley: Simplicity is key.

That's one of the, one of the
main things that I talk about

as well as stoic leadership
academy, it's simplicity is key.

Like if you start taking things just
completely until the realms, you

just need to keep it simple and just.

Just go through a step by step process
and don't get me wrong You can bolster

loads of different things onto this step
by step process to improve it But you

need to just have a format that you can
use as a leader because some people that

I've seen just get Putting management
positions just because they've been

at the company for five years, right?

They've done absolutely
zero Training as a leader,

Travis Bader: but it's

Angus Hilsley: just because they've
been at the company for five years.

Okay.

Right.

You're ready for management.

Travis Bader: Yeah.

Angus Hilsley: And it's like, well,
have you ever done any management?

No.

Do you know anything about leadership?

No.

Very often.

That's the case a lot.

And that's what I'm trying to target.

So Now with my business,
that's who I'm working with.

I'm working with a few companies
in Vancouver just now, um, on

how they're going to change that.

So it's going to be a case of the,
they'll go through my curriculum

and they'll go through my training.

And once I've done that, then it'll
be a year thing where they'll come

and do just a little refresher, not
as in depth as what I first did,

but a little refresher to see where
they're at and how they've put it into

practice and how they can change it.

And then eventually I'm going to be
moving into actual leadership days.

So I'm going to, once I've got it
completely established, it's going to be

a case of businesses are going to send
their teams to me or their leaders to me.

And then we're going to go through
different, um, experiences, different

environments, different scenarios.

And they're going to put everything
that I've taught them in the

theoretical side into practice.

Travis Bader: That sounds amazing.

That sounds like a lot of fun.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, that's,
that's the, the main goal.

So if we're just, now, I'm just delivering
the theory side of Stoic Leadership

Academy to, to these businesses and
we're gonna move on to the online,

online side of things pretty soon.

Uh, right now it's just physical,
but that's the end goal is working

actually in person with these leaders.

After they've learned the
theoretical side, they're gonna come.

Come to us.

We're going to take them through all
these different scenarios, and then

we're just going to observe them and
then we're going to give them kind

of an after action review on how they
did, and then we're going to start

coaching them on how they can improve
the skills that they've already learned,

but just start making it better.

I'm looking forward to seeing

Travis Bader: that.

Angus Hilsley: Yeah, it
should be really good.

It's exciting.

Travis Bader: Is there anything
else we should talk about

that we haven't talked about?

Angus Hilsley: Um, I think we've
got it all covered to be honest.

Yeah.

In terms of a little bit about
me, a little bit about leadership.

Stoic Leadership Academy in the wing.

That's pretty much all that's taken
up my, taking up my time just now.

I'm also training for a
triathlon that I've got as well.

I saw that.

I saw that.

Yeah.

I'm a first ever triathlon.

That's a, it's exactly a month today.

It's happening.

So never mountain bike before
my life, my swimming is abysmal.

So it's going to be, it's going to be a
kind of fun experience, but we're doing

it for charity, so it's a good cause.

That'll be

Travis Bader: good.

Yeah.

Angus, so much for being on
the Suffolk World Podcast.

You're welcome.

Anytime.

Angus Hilsley: No, thank you very much.

It's been, it's been great fun.

Thank you.