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Our podcast features special guests and leaders discussing the many projects, partnerships, and innovations driving hydrogen adoption — starting in the Edmonton Metro Region, and expanding outward to Alberta, Canada, and the World.
Edmonton Region Hydrogen HUB is a collaborative initiative dedicated to advancing a thriving hydrogen economy in the Edmonton Region and beyond. Bringing together municipalities, industry, and associations, the HUB focuses on building a robust hydrogen value chain through collaboration, system integration, and policy advocacy. Leveraging the region’s world-class hydrogen production facilities and strategic infrastructure, the HUB drives innovation, promotes decarbonization, and stimulates economic growth, positioning the Edmonton region as a global leader in sustainable hydrogen development.
Welcome to the hydrogen two point o podcast where Alberta's energy story evolves. Join us as we explore what's changed, what's working, and what's next from Edmonton to beyond. Here's your host, Kessie Akopecke.
Kessia:Welcome back to Hydrogen two point o, our first episode of 2026. We're here today with Robin Hymens and Patrick Noben. They're both representatives of The Netherlands. And in this episode today, we're going to be talking about the connections and collaborations that are occurring and maybe the opportunities with those between those two regions. So thank you both so much for being here.
Kessia:Robin is the senior trade officer for hydrogen at the Consulate General of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in Vancouver. So good morning, Robin. And Patrick Nobun is the CEO of Hydrogen Architects, he's joining us from The Netherlands. So good afternoon, Patrick.
Patrick:Thank you, Kasia. Thank you.
Kessia:Alright. So we'll just get right into the conversation. Thank you both so much for joining today, and I'm very excited to have this conversation with you. I'd like to just start by getting some brief introductions and learning a little bit more about the both of you. So Robin, I'd like to start with you first.
Kessia:Can you just describe what your role is and how it connects to hydrogen development in The Netherlands and internationally?
Robin:Yeah. Of course, Kasia. Thanks for having us. And as you say, I'm a trade officer for the consulate general in Vancouver. And, really, hydrogen is my bread and butter, so I spend about 80% of my time on connecting the Canadian and the Dutch ecosystems on hydrogen.
Robin:I do that pan Canadian. So in Atlantica, Canada, we are ramping up the Transatlantic hydrogen corridor. And in the rest of Canada, that means that we try to develop our ecosystems in innovation, but also in the application of of the hydrogen economy. And, yeah, well, Edmonton has always been very much at the forefront of this, hydrogen economy and the the ramp up of it. So, yeah, I've been doing a lot with, with Edmonton recently.
Kessia:Patrick, same question to you. I'd love to learn a little bit about your role in hydrogen development and what you're working on.
Patrick:Yeah. Well, as the company name states, Hydrogen Architects, I try to create the architecture for Hygiene ecosystems, meaning that I want to bring together all relevant stakeholders, let's say, the production to the off taker side and everything in between, including the Nordics domain. So it's that's why it's called hydrogen architect. And the main main goal is that, but also in in very short, developing hydrogen valleys, and more specific, connects the valleys, connects the parties, connects the people. This is all about connecting.
Patrick:Hajjin is something which connects us.
Kessia:Perfect. So it's the architecture of the economy and the ecosystem really. That's interesting. Okay, so to set the stage, I'd love to talk a little bit about the long standing relationship between Canada and The Netherlands. Even since World War II, we've had a naturally collaborative relationship with The Netherlands.
Kessia:Robin, how has that history of collaboration continued to shape the country or both of our regions, respective regions as we work together today?
Robin:Yes. So Canada has really has liberated together with a couple of other countries, has liberated The Netherlands eighty years ago this year. So, yeah, we've always been very thankful for for Canada for doing that. Also, Canada was the country that our royal family moved to during the war. So our royal family always had a special connection and always continued to have that special connection with Canada.
Robin:One of our princesses is even born in Canada, so she is Canadian by nationality. But also, a lot of Dutch farmers after the World War two went to Canada to become farmers. And when I moved here, I was amazed about how many people actually are from Dutch descent, have a Dutch name, still have a Dutch or. So, yeah, you could say that The Netherlands and Canada really are at this natural connection. And also in this this hydrogen scene, this hydrogen economy that we are ramping up right now, Canada and The Netherlands, we we have a lot of values in common.
Robin:We know that we need to develop, technology to to really mitigate the climate change. And, yeah, that's that's where we are natural connectors.
Kessia:Awesome. Thanks, Robin. So that kinda leads me to my next question, which, Patrick, I'm hoping you can start us off with. For listeners that might not have the full picture, how would you describe the current state of The Netherlands' hydrogen economy today? Are there any key strengths, or what are the key strengths in the gaps?
Kessia:Like when we think about, for example, you mentioned hydrogen valleys. Also wondering maybe what motivated The Netherlands to start pursuing hydrogen at scale. What does that scale look like right now, and what does that look like and and translate to for long term energy sovereignty?
Patrick:Well, let me let me try to unveil the curtain a little bit, Kessia. You know, The Netherlands might seem a very small country compared to Canada, and it is. But still, it's, even in a small country, the distances can be fast. So when we started with hygiene that well, hygiene has started, let's say, many years ago. There were three waves of hygiene also in Europe.
Patrick:First first wave was somewhere in the eighties, and it suddenly disappeared for some reason. The second state second second, let's say, wave was in the nineties that also disappeared, but now we have a third wave, and we see that this one is there to stay. There's a lot of interest from all the places, for hydrogen for reasons of, energy independence, all of energy sovereignty. I wouldn't say that The Netherlands is sovereign on energy because we need we we cut from a net exporter from natural gas predominantly to a net importer. So we have to make ourselves resilient.
Patrick:But in our region, in my region where I live, it's in the Northeastern Part of The Netherlands. We have a very large natural gas field called the Groningen Field, which is world renowned. At the time of its discovery, 1959, it was the largest gas field in the world. But now it's still one of the largest onshore gas fields in the world. But we decided to stop the extraction from natural gas from that field because of induced earthquakes.
Patrick:And that was is is a very dramatic decision, actually, because if you look from the monetary side, a lot of value is still in the in the subsurface, which we decided not to extract. And there is still $506,100,000,000,000 euros of value underneath. But the given is we're not going to extract that. That's hard political given. But our region in the Northern part of The Netherlands, about 20,000 people, 20,000 jobs are involved in this energy value chain.
Patrick:So it's natural gas, it's also other kinds of energy production. And if we wouldn't do anything, we would have a dramatic decrease on regional economical, let's say, development. It would even go down 10%, and that is tremendous. That is dramatic. So we decided to build a plan like a Trojan horse, and the plan was called the green hydrogen economy in the in the Northern Netherlands.
Patrick:And one of the spin outs spin offs of that was to create a hydrogen valley called Heaven. And this valley is very interesting, not only because it's called Heaven, which is short for hydrogen energy systems in the Northern Netherlands. But in the execution, sometimes it's hell because hydrogen is a very difficult molecule. It's it's quite difficult to produce it, to maintain it, to store it, and to produce it, to bring it to other places. And we we can see that that is still the situation actually all over Europe.
Patrick:But I think we have we we there's no way back. We need the hydrogen. We need the molecules for certain applications like high temperature processes, steel, chemistry. We need that to also decarbonize our economies to comply with the, let's say, the climate agreements we signed. So coming back to the question, where is The Netherlands?
Patrick:We are on the forefront. We have the first hydro valley, if you recall, heaven. And many many other hydro valleys are being developed. But it is like a mammoth tanker. You need to navigate your economy towards sustainability, towards decarbonization, and that takes some time.
Patrick:And we we will not be there within a few years' time. This will take 2030, February, 2050, of course, as it is everywhere given the the political and the economic situation. So we're we're there. We're going going. We'll keep course.
Patrick:We'll keep on track. And we we need to do this, and we need to do this together. Working in in splendid isolation is no option. We need to reach out to other parties, and we want to also reach out to Canada. And we want to reach out not only to Canada, but more specifically Alberta.
Patrick:And within Alberta, of course, Edmonton, etcetera, etcetera.
Kessia:Yeah. Okay? Awesome. Yeah. It's definitely a marathon, not a sprint.
Kessia:Robin?
Robin:Yep. I was thinking back on the previous question. I would like to suggest that I sort of finish the answer to that question, if I may.
Kessia:Yeah, for sure.
Robin:To really ramp up, I think what Patrick is saying right now. So fast forward from World War two till now, Canada and The Netherlands really are quite active in the energy ecosystems of the world. Canada is a big producer of energy. The Netherlands is a big importer of energy. We are ramping up to become the hydrogen gateway of Northwestern Europe.
Robin:We have four big seaports, one of which is the biggest in Europe. We are right at the crossroads in between The UK, Germany, and France. So, we already have quite some infrastructure laying, that can be used to be retrofitted for hydrogen. So, yeah, there there's natural connections there. We've been connecting the Edmonton region and The Netherlands on pipeline infrastructure lately.
Robin:We see a lot of need for innovation to really get that transportation more safe, more efficient, cheaper. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to to keep on doing that with, the Edmonton Region Hydrogen Hub.
Kessia:Yeah. And you were both of you were just here in Edmonton. Well, I guess you kind of did a cross North America delegation tour. I think that was back in November that we had a chance to meet in person and talk a little bit about the opportunity here and do some exchange learnings on what's happening in The Netherlands, what are the opportunities. During that visit, you visited one of our offices at Edmonton Global, and we sat down to do a roundtable discussion.
Kessia:I luckily got to sit in on that kind of as a fly on the wall and listen to all the big brains talk about the very important work that they're doing. So yeah, I'd now love to talk a little bit about that roundtable, that delegation that you brought over and that experience and what those kinds of learnings presented during those conversations and during those tours. When you were here, both of you were here, what kinds of common themes emerged for you, especially when we think about, you know, when you're talking about the pipelines, we heard a lot about, how do we deliver to that last mile as well. What are those challenges? I know you can't speak for everybody that was in the room, but maybe you can speak to the themes that emerged and what your perceptions are that you came out of from those conversations.
Kessia:Robin, do you wanna start with that?
Robin:Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So my role really was to bring everybody together. So I think Patrick will be able to dive deeper into the matter than than I can.
Kessia:Okay.
Robin:But what stood out for me the most is that both Edmonton and The Netherlands, are very aware that, the hydrogen ecosystem and the hydrogen economy will get there, and we need to make pace now. And despite all the the setbacks that we're encountering lately, the hype that we have overgrown, right, more into that period of of realism, Disregarding that, we we are still very much we realize that that we we need to get there. And so I was very grateful to be able to get those players together. But one of the themes was, of course, pipelines. We've been doing that for for over a year now.
Robin:And yeah. Well, Patrick, maybe you can just dive into the into the specifics of it. I think you're you're more you're more of an authority than I am on this.
Patrick:Well, if I'm not an authority, I'm a very small authority. But taking taking it some further, I think what what stood out for me is, of course, first, very grateful that we were able to visit and to exchange because this is people's business, you know? Getting together with teams and telephones, that's fine. It's a very flat world then. Three d is better, you know?
Patrick:And what stood out is you have an ecosystem which is mature, maturing and even further maturing. And that's the Edmonton Regional Huncheonhub, which I found very refreshing because you can actually see that the challenges wherever you are in the world aren't the same. We need to harvest the renewable energy, all the energy. We need to transform the energy into hydrogen using, there's a complex technology like electrolyzers. And then from there on, you have the molecule.
Patrick:You have to capture that, store that, transfer that, and then bring it to use in industry mobility, build environments, etcetera. Actually, the hydrogen molecule can be used in very many applications natural gas is used in. And there this and there this pipeline system comes in because, you know, looking at The Netherlands, I think it's fair to say that we are a champion on infrastructure, energy infrastructure in Europe, fair to say. I'm not depriving anybody if I say that because we have a company like Carstenu developed all the pipelines in The Netherlands. If I go back to my previous answer with the the slaughter of the natural gas field, these molecules were brought were bringing natural gas to Europe.
Patrick:Our molecules in the Northern Netherlands were pipelined even to northern to Northern Italy, still are. So we we know how to manage the methane molecule. And I think we have everything in place to tame the hydrogen molecule, to bring it from A to B. Netherlands has a fantastic position. As Robin said, we are the gateway, the energy gateway to Europe.
Patrick:Rotterdam, number one harbor in Europe. Not only the biggest, but also the biggest energy harbor in Europe. Energy comes in and then it's being redistributed to the Interland, predominantly Germany, which is our biggest market. If we put it like this, that's not only not only Rotterdam, it's also Amsterdam. It's Zenith, that's the southern part bordering to Belgium, very near to the Antwerp region.
Patrick:And we have the Northern Eastern part of The Netherlands where I live, the Imshaven, which is the biggest is also a very big energy port in The Netherlands where 33% of the Dutch electricity is being generated or transferred. So we have this position. And in order to to bring that to the market, we need to transform our natural gas system to be able to also transfer hydrogen, which takes time, and that has been it's actually by other European countries, and then it's suddenly named the European Hydrogen Backbone. So in the end, now we are getting some molecules from a part from a country which we don't name anymore. And these molecules came from the East to the West.
Patrick:It came all over Europe. Now we want to do the same with hydrogen, but bringing it from the West to the East or from the West to Germany and then further on. So we have this championship position and tackling, let's say, the value chain is hard work. You have to have the production transferred and then you have to go to the offtake. And the offtake is all about the last mile, how to get the molecules from a pipeline to an end consumer.
Patrick:If it's a big consumer, it is connected to this big hydrogen system. If it's a smaller one, damages come up because then the pipeline is too big to justify a small pipeline to a smaller off taker. So the last mile is really something we need to think on collaboratively. That would be a very interesting proposition. Let's put it like this.
Patrick:As being Dutch, are very brutal and direct, so I'm trying to be very moderately in my directness. So forgive me my bloodness in that respect. So the last mile is really a thing where we can work on together. And I saw aspects which justify that we can work together. We visited the University of Alberta.
Patrick:We visited several, let's say, high end energy technology institutes, which have a lot to offer. And we see that we have similar institutes in our part of the world, in The Netherlands, so combining them is really key. Working together on knowledge is essential because it's soft, nonthreatening. It is easy. And then we can bring in the, let's say, the investment components and maybe take a shortcut.
Patrick:You have a lot of potential in Alberta and in Edmonton if you can produce hydrogen. How can we bring this darn molecule into The Netherlands? How can we fix that? So we need to think on transformation options, transfer options, departure ports, receiving ports. We need to bring in the infrastructure.
Patrick:So maybe very, very blunt to say it would be very, very well and very interesting to develop a to join and develop a corridor study to bring the molecules from London, which is landlocked, to Europe. And, of course, if you bring to Europe, think of us first.
Robin:Yeah. The Netherlands being the hydrogen gateway to Europe. We are indeed a small country north to south. It's Edmonton to Calgary. That's basically our country, 20,000,000 people, but we are part of the European Union.
Robin:Right? So doing business with The Netherlands gives you access to a market of 450,000,000 people without tariffs. It is as doing business with Germany. It's like doing business with France. So I I think it it would be very, very interesting indeed to to do such a study.
Robin:I know political aspects about it. It won't be an easy job to create a pipeline. But five years ago in The Netherlands and Europe, we discovered how fragile it can be to be reliant on one big off taker or one big supplier. So we had to diversify our influxes. We have been paying a price.
Robin:We are paying more for it, but it is for our energy security and yeah, for the security of our economy. It has been a good thing, really.
Kessia:So it sounds like, you know, in order to really define what that corridor or that relationship would be between between Canada and The Netherlands, something like a study would be the first logical step or the first needed step. So it's kind of like, you know, we don't necessarily know exactly what that step would be to define it. First, we need to ask some questions and get answers.
Robin:Absolutely.
Kessia:Patrick?
Patrick:Indeed, if I may if I may contribute to that, it is about bringing people together. It's bringing the interest together identify the interests. Okay. That's there. There's hydrogen.
Patrick:There's a need for hydrogen. We just need to get the molecule in in our ecosystem. And to do that, you need to, let's say, create a roadmap, bring the relevant stakeholders to the table, how to get the molecules from the production site in Edmonton to, for instance, bought on the Baffin Bay and from there on how to get it further on. These are challenges which are complex. But if you have two highly advanced countries and we have, let's say, Europe on our side with 27 countries with a lot of technology potential.
Patrick:And I think, you know, from from the size, I think Canada is is is larger than than Europe. But if we bring these two major technology hubs together, we do know a lot. I would say we know a huge lot. And that opens up the potential. Bring the people together and bring the interests together, put it on paper, and do it on the paper, make it better.
Patrick:It's like it's collaboration. Straight, simple collaboration. And, Joe, you mentioned beforehand, let's say, this huge bubble, which seems to be. And now there is there is some trouble, but that's okay. You know?
Patrick:We have a lot of projects. And if you have a big part of projects, some projects are mature. So what's happening now is a kind of a shakeout. I'm not saying that the small projects who are shaking out are bad projects are not mature, but we need to have the best projects. And if we can bring that together, the opportunity is there.
Patrick:This market, as Robin said, is four fifty million people. It's a huge market, and you only need to have one entry to open up the market and use that opportunity. No tariffs, just one entry point. And from there on, you can access 450,000,000 people of economy. I think that's that's an interesting proposition for a business like environment like Edmonton.
Kessia:I like the way that you kind of deliver that. It's almost quotable. Robin, do you have anything that you'd like to add to this one?
Robin:No. I think we've covered we've covered it pretty pretty much. Awesome. Maybe I allow me to to just conclude with how amazed I and also my colleagues have been with with how proactive the Edmonton region is, not only on hydrogen, but also in in the other sectors, how open for business you are, how eager you are to to receive international delegations, what the opportunities of the Edmonton region are industrial, but also in services, in agriculture, in life sciences and health, in technology with your AIMEE, for example. It's really something that we've been very, very amazed about, and we'd like to continue our fruitful collaboration.
Kessia:That's very kind of you to see.
Patrick:I think we could add another thing, Kesha. We saw a lot of things, you know, like the institutes, the university institutes, and maybe that could be edited in some way. But it's also we saw also some real life projects like the airport, which I found exhilarating. This is a twenty four seven airport. We do have some problems with our airports, as you may know or may have found out, but reducing SAF, so sustainable aviation fuel, to fuel these planes, that's a tremendous opportunity.
Patrick:That the big one that stood
Kessia:out for you at the airport, was the SAF? Anybody that doesn't know what SAF is, it's an acronym for sustainable aviation fuels.
Patrick:Yeah. That stood out because, you know, it's a big airport, twenty four seven operation. Some major carriers are using it as a hub. I think one of the there's a cargo parties like Amazon, etcetera, uses it in a I think it's Amazon or DHL or something, uses it as a hub. But what I found very interesting is that it isn't only the operation of the airplanes.
Patrick:It is also the ground operations which are there. You are transforming the snow sweepers from diesel fuel to hydrogen, which is fantastic. That's a very tangible thing. Every airport in Europe has sweepers. Well, Maybe not in Spain because it never snows in Spain, but in in in the rest of Europe, there is snow.
Patrick:And sometimes there's a dramatic amount of snow. And these sweepers operating them on hygiene bring something interesting to to the forefront. They they clean up the the the the the, let's say, the the runway, make the the the airport keep the airport operational, but it can be replicated all over the place. So these learnings are very interesting to come combined with learnings in Europe, especially our airport here in the northern part of Europe, of The Netherlands called Groningen Airport Eilde, which we renamed into Hygiene Valley Airport. So why not connect our Hygiene Valley Airport with, let's call Edmonton Airport, Hygiene Valley Airport Canada or something.
Patrick:Bring it together. It is very interesting to see that, and there are many of these examples to be found, I'm sure. We visited a short time three days, I think, Robin. And three days isn't enough. It's not enough to create a sustainable relationship.
Patrick:We need to mature that further. And the corridor study could also address these topics. It's not only about bringing the molecules, it's also about developing and demonstrating technology. You have a very, very strong university, which I think, if I understood it correctly, was at the forefront of acting to show all potential, which is very good. So this university knows knows its business.
Patrick:They know energy. Why not combine this technology knowledge, this deep knowledge with universities and knowledge institutions we have, which also have deep knowledge? Then it starts. And I wouldn't also like to use the phrase, let's conclude, Let's start. Let's start this journey.
Kessia:Yeah? Robin.
Robin:Yeah. And with respect to that fantastic university you have, let's not forget that Canada is now a partner on Horizon Europe, which is a very, very, very big sum of money. Patrick, help me out. I think it's €90,000,000,000 which is 120, 130 Canadian billion. And
Patrick:Yeah. That's all of my experience. It's it's it's it's huge. Yeah. It's enormous.
Patrick:And, you can tap into that potential now as Canada, as Canadian parties, Canadian universities, and it all starts with talking and communicating to each other and finding opportunities. And actually, one of the calls of Horizon is the submission deadline is the April 15. So if parties are there on your side of the screen or your side of the, let's say, the podcast, and they want to know something, reach out to us. Reach out to to, let's say, the business office where Robin works, reach out, make yourselves known, make yourselves heard, then we can find connections.
Kessia:So looking ahead into the next twelve months or so, even further, next big thing, I guess, would be when you especially when you talk about, you know, reach out to us, connect with us. Are there any events happening in The Netherlands that maybe some Edmonton business community members should be thinking about or having on their radar. On that note as well, hopefully, we'll see both of you as well as some from your delegation at the Canadian Hygiene Convention this April.
Robin:Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Akashia. So first first of all, in April, the Canadian Artisan Convention. Last year, we had a big Netherlands booth there and some some presence of presence of Dutch companies.
Robin:This year, we're looking into that again. And also good to mention is that the International Energy Agency, their technology collaboration program will be in Edmonton during that conference. So there will be some high level innovators and policymakers from The Netherlands coming over to Edmonton to talk about how can we move the needle on innovation in the hydrogen sector. And only a month later, there is the World Hydrogen Summit in Rotterdam. I think that has grown to be the biggest and most important.
Robin:Humbly, I I will say this, and it's coincidentally in Rotterdam, but it is the most important hydrogen event in the world where Canada historically has the biggest pavilion of of the whole the whole exhibition, really. So we're currently looking into, collaborations and, how we can connect our ecosystems there.
Kessia:Perfect. We hope to have some Edmonton representation at the event. I've heard of World Hydrogen Summit. We've had people from my team go over the years. I've never had the pleasure, but I've heard absolutely amazing things.
Kessia:It's always been on my list of conferences to check out. Seems like a lot of the technology there is very innovative. It's sometimes where you'll walk the trade floor and it's the first time you'll see or hear about something. So from what I've learned about it, from what you two have also told me about it, I'd highly recommend it from somebody who hasn't been. Hopefully, I'll get to go one day.
Patrick:Maybe you could add, Kasia. If artists would like to make something make an announcement, invite them to do that either on the the, let's say, the conference in the Edmonton or at World Hygiene Summit. I would say be very proactive in fighting people if they want to announce something relevant in the hygiene domain. Use these events. This is like talking to the hygiene community over a big microphone.
Patrick:Use it.
Kessia:Exactly. That's when everybody in the world is paying attention. Well, thank you so much, Robin and Patrick, for joining today. Good night, Patrick. Have a great day, Robin, and really appreciate you coming on to have this discussion, and looking forward to seeing what work you guys are doing in the future and connecting with you at these conferences.
Kessia:That's it for today's episode of hydrogen two point o. If you are looking to learn more about the Edmonton region's hydrogen economy, learn more about the Edmonton Region Hydrogen Hub, or get in touch with us, you can visit hydrogen.ca or send us an email at hello@hydrogen.ca. Also, feel free to follow us on LinkedIn, the Edmonton Region hydrogen hub, to stay up to date on all the news and all the activities happening in our hydrogen economy.