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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Um, each and every week, I sit down with my friends and we laugh a little bit, we reflect, talk about the sermon, and also try to really figure out how to live out what it is that we're learning. If you didn't hear the sermon yet, no big deal. Go down to the description, find a link to that sermon, uh, watch it, listen to it, and then come back over here and listen to our conversation. My name is Stacey DiNardo, and I'm joined today by Mike Holwerda, by Lana Chilton, and by Jimmy Kozy. Hello, everybody. Hey. Hello. Good to be together. Good afternoon. Good to be together. So, to start things off, just to break the ice a little bit, question for you. What is something that you collect? Do you collect any items? And if you do not collect something, what's something that you wish you did or could collect? I'll jump in. That's the way to go. Lana. That makes me think of two things. One is, um, I like to collect recipes on Instagram that I will never go back and make. I was talking with a friend about this recently, so I need somebody to come make all those recipes. They're there if I ever need them. Uh, but the thing that I actually do collect is every trip we take, we get a Christmas tree ornament from where we go. Yeah. And so we almost are at the point of needing to have a tree just for those. Oh, that would be fun. Ornaments. Yeah, that's the goal. It's fun. And we, you know, decorate the tree together and talk about. Remember when we went. So love that. Enjoy it. I am, um, a minimalist. I don't collect really. Anything is its own thing we should talk about. Hardly at all. I mean, I think I heard you say you don't have any attachment. I don't have emotional attachment to objects. Um. Um, I will say, since my wife loves me so much that she doesn't listen to the podcasts, I. I'm on. I can say this out loud. My minimalism plays out in a lot of ways. One of them is we have a lot of stuff in our garage and often have a lot of stuff in our fridge. And so, um, for my own mental sanity, I have a practice of, uh, every day I will throw something out in the refrigerator. And then, so it's the opposite of collecting. This is de-collecting, de-collecting. And then every week, when I take the trash out to the curb, I will take an object from our gar that we don't need anymore and put it in the trash can. Hi. Out to the curb. There's Emily. I could borrow that. I think I could. You could do the two. Oh, that would. Wouldn't that. Would that help? That would make you happy. I feel like it would. My garage, this is a side tangent, is too cluttered. I would love to just throw away. We'll do it every week. So maybe in that way, what I collect is space and mental clarity. Space and mental clarity. Which is more valuable than anything. You guys, you derailed the icebreaker last week. I'm not gonna let you do it. This is what I do. This is what I do. Brings the chaos. All right. The one thing I collect is if I go to a really nice golf course. Okay. Uh, they give away free ball markers and free golf tees. And I will take too many. Oh, too many. They're called stealing. No, they're free. This is. But even if you take more than just one. Well, they're free, though. They're free. There. There's a. There's a box of teas. Like, on Friday, I was at a course, and I probably took 20 golf tees. That's not stealing if it's free. Yeah, it's free. I mean, it's part of. I like to collect pennies from nice things. You want? Yeah, I feel like. Well, that's like, in. Like, when you go to a hotel, are you. And you have all the samples. Throw it in the bag. Is there any point in which it's too many that you take? Yes, I would say. Yes. I would say this. Yes. The way you'd find that out is you keep calling the front desk and asking for more. See if they stop. And when they say no, then you've crossed over from enjoying the amenities of the hotel into stealing. I don't know what's happening. This is welcome. Welcome on in. Lana, we're here. Uh, I'll quickly answer the question. I'll say two things, because at first I was like, I don't even know what I'm gonna say for this, but my husband collects Philadelphia, uh, sports paraphernalia. So I would say I feel like he. Yep. It's a family affair. It's a family affair. It just becomes a thing. So shout out to him and to all of Philadelphia's sports. Wow, that's a big shout. Brotherly love. We're gonna talk about brotherly love today. I knew this would conn. Somehow. I'm just gonna. We'll Leave it at that. We'll have to leave the second thing up in the air. It's not that even something you collect. Some of your husband collects. Yeah, but that's good. We're one marriage. We're talking about marriage today. Two connections. Two connections. Marriage and brotherly love. Okay, so today we were in first Peter, chapter three, the first 12 verses. And this is where Peter is talking to wives and then to husbands. Uh, and we'll. We'll talk about that. And there were three points. And then to the church community, to the community in general. And so the, the three points were the trans. Transforming power of true beauty, the transforming power of true strength, and the transforming power of true community. Um, and there was a lot in there, I think it. Again, I, I. When I first heard the passage being read on Thursday night, I was like, oh, wait, we're gonna have to talk about this one. Because I think it's one that upon initial listening, I think, uh, women probably especially could go, wait a minute. I was just called the weaker vessel, and all sorts of things like that. So let's jump in, uh, to maybe some takeaways. First of all, some things that we drew out from the sermon that stood out to each of you wants to start. Uh, I thought what Pastor Joe said about, you know, he said he had a whole set of points that he didn't use that were basically the same point, just applied to different situations. But the idea that, um, our focus should be on ourselves and not those around us. So, you know, uh, and I just think that's helpful for me because I think, um, it's easy to hear, like, hear scripture and, and start to think about how I would, you know, think about all the other people that I know that need to shape up. What is my wife thinking about this passage and all the things she should change instead of actually you thinking about you? I mean, I didn't think that, but. Right, of course. For instance. Yes. Uh, that's a for instance. Maybe someone would. Somebody could have. No, I thought. But that's helpful for me because I do think I have a tendency to, uh, avoid spiritual accountability by thinking about how things should apply to others instead of myself. Yeah, that's good. I think my takeaway was that the, the inner person, who I really am, the beauty, if you will, on the inside, it matters most to God and to every other relationship in my life as well. And culture does not tell you that. Culture would have me fixated on working on everything on the outside and the impression I give. And, you know, but really the person I am becoming through Christ on the inside, it pleases the Lord, but it's going to make the biggest difference in my other relationships as well. That's really good. I was struck by, um, the conversation he shared with him and his wife Karen about him really not knowing what it's like on a day to day, and then him going the next date, Tuesday at lunch with a notepad. I think we're in a season where home life is busy, church life is busy, and just feeling a lot of conviction that I'm not doing that with Christina the way that I ought to. And uh, that really resonated with me. Yeah. And you were thinking about you. There you go. Trying to. Good. Took me a while to get there, you know, two points in, but it got there. Well, I wanted to start off by listening to a clip, uh, from Pastor Joe towards the beginning of a sermon where he's actually setting things up and again, kind of addressing where we're at with our culture. So let's watch that real quickly. Culture is, to a human being, kind of what water is to a fish. It's so much a part of your environment, it's hard to tell the impact. But when you become a Christian, you realize that the culture has a current. It's like a river and it's moving you somewhere. And as a Christian, uh, sometimes that means not only that you are aware that culture has an impact, but yet you need to resist where it's trying to take you. And to do that requires you to have courage, to have intentionality. Yeah. So, you know, this has kind of been a theme throughout really all six weeks so far. And a starting point of saying we're looking at this book of the Bible because we're in an age where, uh, there times can feel like we have a hostile culture and we are feeling like we have to swim upstream. But I thought I would just ask the question and just out of curiosity, saying, man, where have you felt that? Where do you feel that in your life? Where your alignment as a follower of Christ is counter to what this culture is throwing at you? Stacey, I'll jump in. It was, this question was. Is a good one. And I think a few things come to my mind. Where it was maybe high school and college and what that looked like is unique. But what's most relevant to my life and where I am today, and I think a lot of us at CCC is the season that I spent as a stay at home mom. I had been working only in church ministry. And so My culture had been relatively, um, not hostile to Christianity. Right. And then I became a stay at home mom and was spending time with women in the neighborhood. And the most hostile experience was on the playground. Women talking about their husbands, women talking about their situations, the complaining and the negativity and the gossiping. And in that, that was my biggest invitation to rise up and to go. That's actually not who I want to be or who I want to become or how I want to be known. And I wasn't anticipating. I went into those relationships thinking, oh, we just, we all have the same thing in mind. We're going to raise our kids. And it really was a hostile situation, but one that the Lord allowed me to rise up and eventually see some differences made in those relationships. But, uh, that's what came to my mind. Yeah. Yeah. I think for myself even, uh, the passion starts with wives first and husbands second. And I think at least what I've, uh, wrestled with, I think other guys have wrestled the same thing of, um, the idea in marriage of who leads out in terms of serving and sacrifice. And I think the impression of the passage almost can be, all right, wives lead the way in submission, and then husbands follow suit. And I think I have to fight against that. That, uh, my wife's response to me comes after my sacrifice to her. And that becomes a really like a, I don't know, a pivot point for me. Because culture would say, hey, exert your leadership, your power, your authority, and then people will submit underneath. And I think the way of Christ and the way of the church is the opposite of where sacrifice comes first, submission comes second. Right. And I feel like that is such a, uh. I don't know, that's a hard move to make for me, that wrestling through that in our culture, um, even the church sometimes I think is a big one. Well, and I think to that point, I think, uh, it's not just in marriage. I think the leading the way in that in every aspect of life and how you are interacting with your neighbors, with your friends, is this leading with surrender, with sacrifice, with service, in many regards is the first foot forward, if you will, uh, to then be followed by, you know, to lead others. Well, so, yeah. Do you have anything, Jimmy? Yeah, I mean, I feel like, uh, you know, the question was about where you feel the squeeze of, of culture. I think, uh, I thought of something different than, than those two. Just I think one of the things that I've personally felt is, um, like our culture is extremely divided and argumentative and like, I'm not active on social media in the sense that I don't ever post, but my goodness, I really want to. And uh, I think that um, one of the things that this message made me realize is that uh, I think, you know, if we want to hold out the witness of Jesus, sometimes it means avoiding the fray of the divisiveness that's in our culture. Even though it would be really fun to. I, My, my takeaway was similar. I actually put wrote down resist the polarization is. I think I can uh, I can tend to want to challenge people in, in. In an effort to. I don't know, I mean, just because there is so much arg. Like yeah, maybe it's like this weekend was politically hot with all the protests and stuff that were happening. And so like you're seeing stuff on social media where everybody's arguing with everybody about everything and uh, I just feel like something's wrong. Rise up. Yeah, that's. Yeah, no, that's good. Well, that there was, I mean we, we've touched on already there. Pastor uh, Joe in this passage was highlighting kind of what it looked like for wives, what it looked like, what this passage was saying to husbands. And so I just thought a starting point too would be to talk about, hey, how does that inform us? How does that help us when we think about our relationships? Um, what do you feel like God is maybe even teaching you out of. Out of kind of what Pastor Joe mapped out for wives and for husbands in the passage? I would say one of the biggest things that this has been over the course of, I think m. Weeks and months that God has been working out in. In me is that, um. You know, Mike, to your point earlier about leadership and sacrifice and what it actually means to be a leader of a family as a husband is just that, um, the ultimate responsibility of, of leadership is that you are responsible for the flourishing of every person in that family in every way. And when it comes to like my relationship with my wife, you know, that doesn't mean necessarily domineering or uh, it could mean a lot of things. One of those is probably going to have a highly sacrificial and service oriented element. That part of leading her or uh, uh, what it means to lead in that sense is to ensure that she's flourishing which way, which will likely mean me laying down some of my desire, my ambition, my whatever, in order to make sure that she has what she needs. I think that when Pastor Joe was talking about that, it made me think of that. Yeah, I mean in a lot of Ways I think it's, it was, it's messaged a little differently, but very much the same theme in both directions because, you know, I loved what Pastor, uh, Joe was saying about laying aside your personal desire. This was to the wives, um, to unleash the power of God. Right. And, and yet at the same time you guys are talking about the sacrifice and the surrender that you heard kind of speaking out to the husbands in that passage. And there is a lot of just laying down, becoming more like Jesus. I, um, know for me personally, I am, uh, I mean, you guys know me well. I'm a pretty strong minded, maybe stubborn person, so. No, no, you're not even great. Stacy, does it bother you that nobody made a joke to lighten that one up? Yep. So no. I mean, I just feel like God, uh, is constantly teaching me, but uh, what it looks like to continue just to surrender and say, like, it's not, not my will, but yours, Lord. And what that means in my relationships that are closest to me, with my husband, with others, is often not, you know, sometimes just wanting to speak out or just want my way or the highway kind of thing, but looking to the needs of others and looking to serve my husband. So, um, that's, yeah, that's something I'm constantly reminded of. Zach did this last weekend and Pastor Joe did it again this weekend. Just like bringing out the surrender and the power that Jesus, like the reason we are Christians is because Jesus surrendered and his own power down. This is the pattern since before time began. Right. Like this is such a great line. Right. And even bringing in the Garden of Gethsemane of saying submission will take struggle. Mhm. And struggle is not sinful. Right. Like if Jesus struggled through submission, then I think even for me, I just, like it's a reframing of what it means to be a husband. What does my wife need? Um, what are my kids need? Right. In the home, the culture of my home. And uh, letting that prayer life even be shifted. I'm saying, yeah, in this moment, I don't know if I have a lot of capacity. I'm not sure I have the bandwidth but to pray that differently. I think at least something that I'm starting to wrestle with. I loved that he kept pointing it back to become more like Jesus, that the power of transforming beauty was to become beautiful like Jesus. The power of transforming strength was to be strong like Jesus, to serve like Jesus. And so for me, I ca, you know, I was reminded that, I don't know, I think a lot of women can get caught up in, am I taking care of the outer person that 2 Corinthians 4 tells us is wasting away? Or am I cultivating with more intentionality the inner person? And is that beauty actually growing? I looking more like Jesus on the inside? And if I am, my husband's going to feel it. I was gonna say. And that's the thing that. The trick of it all is that even though when we have struggle in our interpersonal relationships, we tend to think, okay, what does the other person need to fix in order for this? The reality is, the way forward in fixing it is probably more connected to me becoming more like Jesus than it is anything that has anything to do with the other person. Yeah, yeah, I know. I, uh, Gene and I helped with marriage ministry for a period of time here, and I wrote this down this weekend, too. But just the phrase of stay in your circle. Do you guys remember that? Yeah, but it is. I do. You do, but it is the same concept. But I know for us it was super helpful. It's been super helpful as we've talked to other couples, because it is going. Instead of immediately pointing, it's so easy to point the finger at, well, this is what he's doing to me. You may not even be wrong. It's not correct. The point is not that. That's not true. You can't change the other person. All you can do is change yourself. And that's the point of it. And so it's not saying, oh, woe is me. It's going, no, what can I actually do? What is within my own control? And it boils down to humility, usually. And that kind of surrender can often be a catalyst for the other person experiencing transforming power in their lives, even if not. Even if it's not your own becoming more like Jesus and growth in Christ and intimacy with Christ in that is going to grow. I mean, this passage points to husbands at some points being transformed through. Yes, their wives. Surrender to Christ. Not a guarantee, right? Not a guarantee, but some. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, uh, that answered the question I think I was going to ask, which was, what do you say to the person who says, okay, I am, um, having a problem in this relationship. I've decided to focus on my own growth and becoming more like Jesus. And it doesn't seem to be doing anything, but it seems like the answer to them is that in and of itself is an end and is a joy to become more like Jesus. Us. Yeah, but still, that can be a really challenging. Yeah, you don't have to. You have to surrender the result. Yeah, Right. Like, you can't just say, all right, I'm gonna sacrifice so that my wife. Then. Even then, you're still trying to, uh, manipulate your own game, right? Yeah. The end game of becoming more like Jesus is so that you would be more like Jesus, not so that the person you're trying to get to change would change. Right, right. Let me turn the corner real quick. Cause I thought, uh, the end of that passage, or well, towards the end of it, verses 8 and 9, and the transforming power of community was super powerful. Um, so in that, again, we're looking at those around us, our neighbors and friends. And, um, there are five characteristics that are listed there, and they are just really, really powerful characteristics. So for us to be a church, for us to be a people that really are going to be able to transform culture, these are the things that Peter is saying should be true of us. A unity of mind, sympathy, tender hearts, brotherly love, and a humble mind. Um, and if you. If you missed that part of the message, maybe you need to go back and listen to even just that. Because even as Pastor Joe just unpacked those five different things, uh, there's just a lot of power in them, I believe, and a lot of challenge in them. So I was going to ask you, though, is there one that stood out or something out of what he said there that was like, wow, I feel like God can. Is challenging me in this. Or this is one that stuck out? Um, yeah, yeah. I think I'm challenged by the unity of mind. Right. Because, you know, his example of, like, pulling up next to a Cavs fan and like, wearing the shirt and the racial tensions and feel like you can see racial tensions, political tensions, you can see all kinds and be able to say, our unity is not based on politics. It's not based on race. It's not based on, uh. It's based on Jesus. That. That's right. Yeah. Like that, like, we need. We need a bigger Jesus. Like, that's what we need as a church. As a church, we need a bigger Jesus. There's still space to. To work out the other differences and talk those things through. Those are unimportant, but they're not most important. We don't really need a bigger Jesus is big enough, but as Christians, we need to see Jesus as more. And our issues, maybe a bigger vision for what? Bigger vision. That's right. I was agreeing with you, but I started to realize, wait a minute, someone could take that the wrong way. Not taller, you know, not taller. Jesus is perfect that we need. But no, that's so true. So I think for me it's the uh. Like if I could choose one of those to pursue, I think it would be the tender heart. Uh, I think that, uh, that's an area where, um. And maybe sympathy and tender heart are somewhat connected, but an area where I'm maybe is not a strength for me, like I tend to, uh, be. Maybe I'll put it this way. I'm much harsher in my evaluations of other people than I am in my evaluation of myself. And I think that comes from a lack of tenderness in my heart. And I think that, um, if I could grow in one of those areas, I would choose that. That's really good. And another, another piece that he talked about with even that one was. And so yours is completely great on its own, Jimmy. But separately he talked about just how pain and hurt can do one of two things and they can make you softer. And I think he read from a book here. Or they can harden your heart. And I know for me that was one that stood out to me as well. But even just praying and saying, man, I want those things that are really difficult, my heart to always grow softer. It's interesting because, uh, I remember my wife and I had a conversation about this maybe like two weeks ago, just talking about how, uh. Sometimes it's interesting to see that difficult, uh, circumstances. We were just observing some things that were going on in lives of friends around us. And difficult circumstances seem to either you see people who it, ah, drives to the side of Jesus where they seem to be, or the exact opposite happens where they walk away from him or maybe abandon their faith altogether. And I think we were just trying to figure out what's the, what's the. The difference between somebody for whom that challenge drives them to closeness and intimacy and, and character that grows into what Jesus has made us to be. And why is it that in some cases the opposite happens? And I don't know if I know the answer. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they were all so good. I, I think I'll just. I could feel convicted about all of them. I, I though really what Pastor Joe said about a humble mind being a healthy self. Suspicion. Yeah, Healthy suspicion towards your own view. Yes. Like being willing to question even something you feel so strongly about. Being willing to hold that with an open hand and allow Jesus to transform your mind towards something or someone. You know, I think that that is a continual growth process for me. I would hang on to that one too. I think that's One I would want to pursue as well. But, uh. Um, yeah, no, this has really been good. I think each week we are sometimes trying to point people to a way to kind of live out. If you grabbed a handout at church this week on that, there's even a place to write in. How are you going to live it out Challenge this week, I'll just state, I think that could be a great one. Is to read through verses 8 and 9 and even to ask yourself, man, God, where do you want me to grow? What's one of these you want me to pursue? Even Jimmy, to use your words, is a humble mind, brotherly love, tender heart, sympathy, unity of mind. But what are other challenges? I think there's a lot in what we heard today that could be, uh, things to encourage people to think about. As we head into our week, I think I might echo what Mike said earlier. I think what Joe said about personally, for me, about how he interacted with Karen was just. Was challenging. And I think, you know, if you're a husband listening to this and, you know, you. You. I feel like you underestimate how powerful it would be for you to interact that intentionally with your. With your wife. Even if it feels clunky at first, you know, Joe gave the image of him pulling out a notepad, and it's like, well, I'm not gonna sit with a notepad at lunch, but m. Maybe pushing through that awkwardness could yield results that just called Joe clunky. I didn't say that. I feel like you're putting words in my mouth. It's a good picture, though. It is. Start somewhere, though. I think that's good. That's really good. Stacey. I think these verses that we were just talking about, verses 8 and 9, the power of transforming community. I guess for me, I was thinking those things are not developed amongst ourselves. In rows on a Thursday night or a Sunday morning, we hear the powerful teaching that we're discussing right now. But in order for community to be a part of shaping me, to develop a tender heart, to develop brotherly, sisterly love, it's being in the community. So I would just challenge someone to, hey, take a step beyond being here on the week, Whether that's to a Bible study or circle or, you know, coming to a men's event or a women's event where you're entering into a space where you can be shaped by the body. Yeah, that's good. Anything, Mike? Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing of the notepad. I think it's almost this whole passage, I think is like the backdrop is Jesus has a better way for marriage than what we have learned. Right. Jesus has a better way for our relationships than. And so on some level, just taking a step back from the passage itself and saying, do I trust Jesus as a husband, that this way is best? Do I trust Jesus this way as a part of this church, that this way is best? And some of those things I think will be, um, helpful for me. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for this conversation for this time. Let's, you know, this week, I hope, will be one where we're living out one of these things or some of these things, and God is just continuing to work in our hearts. Thanks so much for tuning in to beyond the Message. Before you go, just make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on any content in the future. And also, we have content for you all week long on our CCC app, YouTube channel, or even on our website so that you can grow where you are all week long. Share that with friends and with family. Until next time. We'll see you soon.