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Future-proof your leadership with High Octane Leadership, a place where business leaders—whether by title or aspiration—share cheat codes for unlocking workplace excellence, lessons learned along the way, and insider tips for future generations of next-level professionals. With a career rooted in building people and businesses, Donald Thompson is an award-winning CEO, speaker, and author who empowers leaders to scale with purpose. Over the last 25 years, he has helped startups and enterprises alike drive cultural change, unlock performance, and deliver exceptional results through strategic leadership.
Find him on LinkedIn, and listen here to learn how you can become future-proof too.
High Octane Leadership - Episode 183
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Susie Silver: [00:00:00] It's very important to understand, especially from the business component, your, how your employees are feeling, what they're thinking, what they want. And so that could be anything from, we're always gonna hear about pay me more. We're always gonna hear that. Let's dive deeper into what development opportunities are there.
Do I feel like I belong here? Yeah. Am I heard? Am I seen? Is there a level of trust and we need to talk about it? We also need to collect data on that. Yeah. We can't run our businesses without our people.
Donald Thompson: Welcome to High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson. This season we're diving deeper with more solo episodes where I'll share the experiences that have led to recognition by ey, Forbes, fast Company, and others not as a boast.
It is milestones on my entrepreneurial path from growing multimillion dollar firms to successful business exits and building high performance teams with a global perspective. I'll reveal the insights and strategies from my journey and share them with [00:01:00] you so that we can win together alongside these.
So episodes will have industry visionaries and thought leaders.
Susie Silver: And we'll explore effective leadership ready to empower your leadership journey with real success stories. Let's embark on this transformational journey together.
Donald Thompson: Welcome to another episode of High Octane Leadership. I'm here today with a good friend of mine and work colleague Suzy Silver.
And Suzy is a phenomenal workplace consultant and she focuses on things in the area of psychological safety, uh, basically building a better workplace for all really at the intersection of business. And building human capital to create that strategic outcome for your business. One of the things that we're gonna do today is we're gonna talk about how do we really think about workplace wellness and health in the construct of business value?
And I've been, uh, a fan of Susie for many years and an opportunity to work together as phenomenal. So Susie, uh, welcome to the show.
Susie Silver: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Donald Thompson: One of the things that I want to jump [00:02:00] into is I want to give you the opportunity to just. Talk a little bit about your background, a little bit of what brought you into the corporate space, uh, as a trainer and a consultant and educator so that our audience can get to know you and then we'll kind of jump into some of the details that we wanna talk about today.
Susie Silver: Yes. Well. It's been five years, just a couple weeks ago we've been together, which is amazing to think about. Uh, the journey is an interesting one. I actually have a fine arts background. This, it's fun to tell the story of the how did you get here? And I have a fine arts background and, and background in education.
And so, uh, early in my career I. Really liked leadership and understanding what that meant within the classroom and within the school setting, and well into that teaching career, which wound up being almost 18 years. Uh, it's interesting to say that too.
Donald Thompson: That's awesome.
Susie Silver: Uh, I started multiple businesses, so I'm a serial entrepreneur.
As, as I know, I'm. Good company there. Good company. Uh, well, some businesses on the art side and [00:03:00] one in particular. I started consulting in the educational and corporate space for inclusion, diversity, equity, inclusion, LGBTQ plus inclusion. Uh, one from Spurs from my own experiences, and then learning more outside of myself.
And at the time that that business was growing and also the conversations were growing. I met you and the early team, uh, from the diversity movement, and we joined together and one of the things that brought me into the corporate space more formally was this transition onto the team, because I remember us talking about we can do the work bigger.
Together, faster together. And to me that was mission aligned. It was driven by helping people, helping business. I love the balance of, um, business and people. Mm-hmm. Don't shy away from that conversation either. So it's been an interesting journey. That's the quickest way I could say that whole. Story
Donald Thompson: that is, uh, one of the things I recognize when we were chatting with, with Susie many [00:04:00] years ago, there's a lot of folks that are really creative, uh, but can't translate into business outcomes.
And one of Susie's superpowers, and I've seen her do this in boardrooms, in C-suite, in leadership settings, is really to take the ability to look at the human-centric side of the work we do, but really translate that into to business results. And so, Susan, I wanted to give you some space. One of the things that we were talking about.
In preparation with some of your superpowers. So talk to us a little bit about what it means to you to translate human insight into strategy.
Susie Silver: It's very important to understand, especially from the business component, your how your employees are feeling, what they're thinking, what they want. And so that could be anything from, we're always gonna hear about.
Pay me more. We're always gonna hear that. Let's dive deeper into what development opportunities are there. Do I feel like I belong here? Yeah. Am I heard? Am I seen? Is there a level of trust and we need to talk about it? We also need to [00:05:00] collect data on that. Yep. We can't run our businesses without our people.
Plain and simple. And so we have to understand from the analytical side what's going on there. You know, even from the application process, so not just when we, we have internal employees, but people wanting to work at your organization, what does your website look like? Mm-hmm. What, what do you have to offer as a culture?
People more and more, which we've seen for many years now, want a place that aligns with their values and provides career opportunity. So we have to understand the holistic process from beginning to even exit what's happening. And so how we translate that mm-hmm. Is into, oh, okay. Well people are feeling.
There's nowhere to develop or maybe get a promotion or get training. Well, that's from data and insights. We can help that in your business, which links to retention, which reduces your risk, which reduces the money spent to replace people. That's very business oriented conversation to [00:06:00] people Wanna stay.
They feel like they belong and they feel like there's an opportunity here. So it has to be an, it is an art form. I, I truly believe it's an art form using data both qualitative and quantitative, uh, to, to create that, that process of sentiment.
Donald Thompson: I appreciate that answer very much. One of the things that people talk about a lot is the word psychological safety and creating that space for people to be and feel seen and heard.
Mm-hmm. As a business leader, when you're doing all you can to create that space. Why do, sometimes I can feel as a bus leader, I want you to unpack this a little bit. That people don't take that space, but you have, right. We've worked together a a lot of, A lot of years. Yes. So what are some of the characteristics that allow people to really actually lean into their role when that space is trying to be created for them?
Susie Silver: Right. Communication is key. And that's not gonna happen easily overnight. As as you said, we, we, early on, we knew each other. Sure. [00:07:00] But we didn't work with each other yet.
Donald Thompson: That's
Susie Silver: right. And so you have to build a foundation of trust. So trust and communication and psychological safety, those are components that have to exist.
So communication is key. Learning communication styles. When is the best time to communicate? With you and, and that's from both sides. I know you are up early. So am I. We've learned that. So it's okay. We have, um, realistic boundaries in some of our communication. You can text me, I can text you at seven o'clock in the morning and, and some that does not work for every team.
That's right. Nor should it work for every team. And then there's a respectful boundary of, you know, that I'm chaotic at the end of the day 'cause of my kids' activities. And that seems. Outside of business right now, you know, that seems outside of business. That's the humanistic component of respect of the trust of the communication.
My style. Generally, we can go email to email, uh, if I want feedback. We're talking about a big idea, something that's really important to our [00:08:00] business. I want it face to face and usually so do you.
Donald Thompson: That's right.
Susie Silver: And so that takes that time and its intention and effort. I know, especially that mid-level manager we've talked about everybody's feeling that pressure from everywhere, that it's hard sometimes to make that time.
Yeah. And to take that time. But the foundational. Components of communication and building trust and knowing what trust is to each other.
Donald Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Susie Silver: And that can be from practice and that can be from failure sometime and learning and getting up and trying that again between leaders and employees and colleagues.
That really helps that psychological safety to end, to end, to your, your question and point. All of that makes me feel like I can say, Hey Don, I don't align with that. Here's why I know that if I say I don't align with this. For us and knowing each other, I need evidence. I need evidence. Fair enough. And that's fair.
That that's fair as well. From my standpoint, I wanna be part of a solution. I [00:09:00] wanna be part of something. Yeah. That helps us get to the next stage. And again, that's taken us time. It takes anybody time. And I think there's also a, a notion of, oh, I'm gonna come in and it's all gonna. Be okay. Right? There's
Donald Thompson: magic.
Susie Silver: You have to build that. But psychological safety really at its core is that you can speak up, you can speak out. You are not gonna have retaliation for that. In fact, it will be welcomed. You will be heard and there can still be disagreement. There can still be some emotion there. We can work through that.
Donald Thompson: No, I really appreciate that answer. I, I think one of the things I would say to extend it and appreciate the component where you said, in getting to know me. When you have a concern or you disagree with an idea or a direction, what's the evidence? What supports that point of view? One of the things that, um, I see as a business challenge is a lot of the education is about what the manager or the leader should do different.
How do we educating our employees, our team members, to own the space they have. Mm-hmm. Right. [00:10:00] And I don't think, uh, a lot of times we. Trust our teams or empower them enough with the education. How to communicate in the language of leadership. Mm-hmm. Right. So they communicate from their perspective, they share how they feel.
Mm-hmm. But their leader is measured in financial terms.
Susie Silver: Yeah, that's right.
Donald Thompson: Right. So immediately there's a dis, there's an unintentional disconnect in that conversation, but the leader's responsibility is to share. What they need to actually make a change. And that is where you described, bring me how you feel, bring me what you're seeing, but also bring me the business case of how it's gonna move the business in a positive direction.
And so I appreciate that.
Susie Silver: That's exactly right. And actually a little tip, one of, one of the things I, I do with leaders, especially in the employee sense, is to one, the empowerment and to trust themselves first and foremost. And it is hard to bring something up to. A superior, so to speak. Right? That's right.
And and you're saying in that that business sense and, and what they have to deliver on as the manager or supervisor leader, [00:11:00] I, I think about the, the easy button, the red. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm gonna say, because I used as an example before, but to whatever level of leader you are speaking to as an employee.
One, where are my emotions out? Check your emotions. Not to disregard your emotions, just know it's self-awareness. That's a leadership component we talk about. That's
Donald Thompson: right.
Susie Silver: In all sense. So where are you emotionally? What do you really want? What are you saying? What are you asking for? What do you need? What do you wanna challenge?
That's that evidence. And then map it to what's important to the leader. We need to know that as well. I know what's important to you and, and that shifts, you know, what's important to me. That shifts, we have to continue to communicate. That's right. And then I, it's like a little formula. I write notes, I type it up.
And whether that is in an email or a conversation, it's then you can say key button. Got you, Suzy. Mm-hmm. We can do this. Or how about we shift this a little bit? So [00:12:00] that formula has very much worked for employees as well as other leaders because there's empowerment there and it makes sense. It's not so ambiguous.
Donald Thompson: Yeah.
Susie Silver: Yeah.
Donald Thompson: I wanna give a real example, um, of how this worked in practice between us and, and then I also wanna give. Suzy and, and the team a little shout out. And so maybe it was three months ago, um, Suzy and I had a one-on-one, um, we're a part of the workplace Options center of, uh, organizational effectiveness.
And Suzy had a new idea of how to package, uh, a new offering for our clients. And it was basically creating micro courses or micro training workshops. Right? Is that the right Yep. Way that we described it. And so she said, now we want to pitch you on this idea. And I said, okay. I said, gimme a thumbnail.
Right. Because as a leader before, I'm gonna take an hour meeting, right? I wanna know that like this matters in some way. This is significant. And Suzy basically described everyone's so busy [00:13:00] that we're finding that our longer form courses are not being as adopted as much because we need to create training that works in the flow of a busy professional's day.
Yeah. And I said, okay. And she said, Don, I think this is a significant financial opportunity that should be able to get to seven figures if we do it right. I said, go on. I said, go, go on. And so we had that mini conversation. I said, all right, send me what you got. And then we booked a meeting. And you and several colleagues, uh, walk me through it.
Tell our audience about the idea, these micro training courses you came up with it. Uh, you all have implemented a handful of places. I'm really excited about raising the profile of it as we've done some tests and seen it work really well. But I'd like for you to share that with the audience because we can bring it from idea many conversation to, we had some pitch meeting.
I then shared that, uh, with some folks that I'm working with at, at different levels in the company, and now we are in motion with marketing this new idea. And so before I give you the mic, what I wanna share with the audience is [00:14:00] this, what if I hadn't created an environment where Suzy and team could bring us new information, new ideas that we could, up or down, I potentially would cost myself millions of dollars in revenue.
I didn't create the, um, the environment for people to share what they're thinking. And so, Susie, give, give our audience a little taste of little taste of what you all came up with.
Susie Silver: So this, uh, this idea concept started in August, 2024 and with one of our partners clients, we wanted to reimagine what their.
Education looked like and live facilitation at for years, as we know, has followed the same format. And so we did talk about what, what, what are your pain points, you know that that's an important question for me to ask. As a consultant. Mm-hmm. What's going on Great. And what's not working so well. And this historically as an organization have.
Great culture and people are eager to learn. The format wasn't working. So, uh, in collaboration we came up with what if, [00:15:00] what if we do a series? Now with this particular first pilot, it was, uh, every Monday morning in the month of August, so there are four sessions, 30 minutes. Let's come up with the different topics and.
Just be quick about it. You know, I love to talk as, so we both do, but let's, we, we share that, let, let's, let's be quick about it. Let's introduce a topic, have some information, have an interactive activity, have the chat open. This is all virtual, uh, and, and interact as a community. And then we can implement right away that, that was a, a directive from me.
And also the, the client agreed. So we piloted. Very well received, high atten, uh, attendance, you know, um, great, uh, sentiment of, wow. I walked away with something that was in my workflow. So the half an hour was in the workflow, which was a big thing. And then we measured with them, their belonging scores increased as an organization based on the series.
Hmm. [00:16:00] We're onto something. August of 2025, we increased to eight sessions, Mondays and Fridays. And I'm, we're thinking, great, but. It's kind of a lot. Over 70% of their entire workforce attended these sessions, including their Cee o. And so we have actual data which helped, which the facts for Dawn that I presented, uh, Hey, we're onto something here.
And it was expanding the topics. The format was working, let's, let's maybe spice it up with some more activities and some more interaction. And what came about was then this just. Feeling inside. Right. Thus that we innovate, we know, we know we're working on something that's special. Mm-hmm. That's right.
And that's when it was, it wasn't time yet to bring it to you. I dropped some notes here and there. Sure. Maybe, you know, just, Hey, this is what's going on and add this time. We got the team together and said, we, we really need to, you know, present this to you. So it's been very fun. The reaction's been really great from the [00:17:00] people that are receiving it.
That's the point. And it's affecting their business. It's affecting the retention, it's affecting the belonging, and that we know affects the business in a positive way. And now we're on 2026, August, they're doing nine sessions.
Donald Thompson: That that is, that is awesome. I, I really love that story for a couple of reasons.
One. In the environment, business leaders are in, uh, if you're asking a business leader to have their staff mm-hmm. Spend two hours, four hours, two days in training, that's a pretty significant ask, both in hard costs for what that training would cost, and then also moving people away from their day-to-day tasks.
Um, but business leaders by and large really understand that culture and communication and ongoing education are important. But if you can give them something in a bite-sized kind of snackable. Level. Mm-hmm. It allows them to see the ability to implement it faster. And so we move from talking about education to testing it, and then once you test something, then the data and the feedback stands on [00:18:00] its own.
And so one of the things as we talk to you all and, and we all grow together in high team leadership, it's really about how do we implement leadership principles in the realities that we're all dealing with? And that means we have to introduce new knowledge in smaller increments. That's right. Uh, so that people can really manage that attention.
And then the second thing that is really important is before we try to roll something out, let's pilot stuff. It's not rocket science, right? One of the things that people will do is they, uh, and this is just a pet peeve of mines. Um, people will debate and debate and debate and have these who can be the smartest in the meeting moments.
Let's not debate what we contest. Let's just run some tests and then let the data show us the way. Uh, one of the, I wanna pivot a little bit, um, from the corporate to the family, and it blends back to business. But you're a mom. Mm-hmm. Uh, you have two boys. Super active. [00:19:00] All the different things that, that I know.
How is it being a parent in these crazy times? Right. Because, you know, we can't be naive that when we ask people to show up as their best self at work. Mm-hmm. Um, and people are parents, people, um, have partners, people have health things that they may be working through. People may be in their first job and they're learning how to be a professional.
There's all kinds of anxieties. We're at war. There's a AI tsunami, there's all, I could list all the different things we're working through. How are you managing and then how are you helping others manage that you're teaching and coaching?
Susie Silver: Yes, that's a, it's a great question and one I'm sure we could talk about for a long time.
You know, it's day to day, honestly, it's one in the context of being a parent and my kids are about to be 12 and eight. So yes, very active. We're, we're always out and about, which is great and actually a gift, you know, I don't take lightly and you know, something that myself and my spouse we talk about is.[00:20:00]
Right now in 2026 and then 2025, things have not slowed down for a long time, many years. That's right. And we're somewhat in, and not to say this naively, 'cause I know there's some repeated patterns of, of things historically, we are seemingly in an unprecedented time, again thinking about COVID hitting.
Donald Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Susie Silver: When our kids were even younger. Saying, well, okay, well where's the book for that? You know, where's the playbook? Where's the help for that? Where's the, what do we do? And navigating that with young children and figuring out how to keep them safe and how to keep them not protected again in, in some kind of naive way, but to also educate them of the world.
And now as. Continued and alleviated a bit the last couple of years, and right now especially, is very difficult. I have a child that's about to be 12 who's very aware of the world around him, ask great questions. We have very open conversations in our [00:21:00] house, especially the line of work that I'm in. And so it's not new to have hard important conversations, but again, we're finding ourselves without a playbook, you know?
Donald Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Susie Silver: The, the difference between right and wrong. Comes up almost every day in our house. And so how do we navigate it is day to day. It is finding pockets of joy. It is taking time when we need time. This actually goes back dawn to the conversation about psychological safety.
Donald Thompson: Yeah.
Susie Silver: And trust in the workplace because you know, we need flex.
We need flex, meaning we need the flexibility as professionals right now again. Yet in a different way than happened. Oh, we're gonna be flexible and pivot was the word of the year in 2020 and 2021. I don't want leaders to forget about that. I don't want them to think that things can be as is. 'cause we're not there.
Your people are not there. Whether it's me as a parent navigating caretakers for elderly parents, I'm in the [00:22:00] sandwich generation right now, um, with, with elderly parents, not even in town. And so. Going on as is and is just not possible. And now that doesn't mean, I always say this to leaders and I mean it, I'm not talking about lowering your expectations.
Gotcha. You and I talk about this a lot. This is about that discipline and trust within your team and how to continue building those fundamental things within your team to say, you know what you need. Maybe, maybe take. Take today off or take two hours off, or why don't we, as a team, we're gonna shut down for two hours Friday afternoon.
It can all wait. And when you actually demonstrate that as a leader, it gives permission to the team to say, oh, okay. I I thought they were just saying that. No, actually Don is telling me I'm offline this afternoon. Yep. And it, and I'm getting very specific from the broad question. No, I understand. But it's bringing it really into the importance of Yes.
As people being seen as [00:23:00] people first. And yes, I am. Employee. I am at a great organization on a wonderful team I care about, and so I. Tell a lot of my own stories to the people I'm helping. So it goes to your question. Yeah. I try to use real world examples. I don't know it all. That's why we need different perspectives in the room.
Mm-hmm. To help us understand what we don't know. Re reminding ourselves. We don't know what people are caring unless they tell us. And actually we will tell you as employees, meaning leaders, when we trust you.
Donald Thompson: That is, um,
Susie Silver: it's a little bit,
Donald Thompson: no, I really appreciate that. I, I would say from my perspective, as we think about leadership, as we think about growing organizations, people will use this phrase, people are my most important asset.
Our people are where our secret sauce comes from. And all of these things are in corporate speak across the land. But we have to live that. And the reason we have to live that is twofold, [00:24:00] right? One is the business value and one is the brand value, right? And what I mean by brand value is, as a business leader or as an organization, your brand is what measures, right?
How you follow through on the promises you make. So if an organization, I'll use Elon Musk for example, and, and he's not one of my favorite people, but, um, but I respect what he's done as a business leader. I respect what he's done as innovation and he speaks his mind when he went into act Twitter and then called it X or whatever, he said, I don't want to hear about this DEI stuff.
I don't wanna hear about work-life balance. If you don't wanna work 80 to a hundred hours a week, just go ahead and quit. Now that seems super harsh, super ridiculous, but it's honest. And then people made a choice if they want to be a part of that kind of organization. What I think is worse sometimes is when leaders think like that, but then their website talks about people first.
Their website talks about people are our most important asset. We want you to [00:25:00] come to us and bring anything to us, and they don't mean it. I actually prefer when people live their truth, and then people can decide if your organization culture aligns with where they wanna be, where they wanna work, where they wanna build a career.
And so I think it's really important for business leaders to be the person they say they are. And that also means when you make a mistake, when you have a misstep, that you own it, that you fix it, that you correct it. No one's looking for perfection. But we are looking for consistency, right? And that's what I try to model with my leadership.
But more importantly, the, the people that I work with, that I coach, that I counsel, the, the clients that we have is perfection is an unattainable thing. But you can keep your promises. And then if you cannot, then you do everything you can to fix it and own it and do better the next time. And so those are some of the things that I, that I, I share.
Uh, question. [00:26:00] That I've been, been meaning to, to ask. And this is more on, um, how do you learn and grow? And this isn't on the script, so take as much time as want. What do you read? What do you, how do you learn? How do you take in information? Because one of the things that I know and I appreciate is Susie will always send me new insights, right?
Like she'll say, Hey Donna, I think you'd be interested in this. And she'll send me this white paper. Hey Donna, I think you'd be interested in this. Here's this article. Right? And I love that, right? Like, because there's so much information out there. I really appreciate my colleagues and my friends that send me what to me is curated content because they know me, they know my goals, they know who I'm as an individual and they've picked this for me.
And I always read those things first. Talk to me a little bit about how you consume information, how you learn, how you grow and stay current.
Susie Silver: Yeah. Uh. That is, that's funny.
Donald Thompson: It's true though. Soon as you have lots of ideas I do like you,
Susie Silver: I'm gonna answer the question. Okay. Lemme say about my ideas and this is, this is an example.
I'm gonna answer the [00:27:00] question, but this is a great example of our, our relationship that's grown. 'cause when I first started on a team. I have a lot of ideas. I start many businesses. I got ideas every day. In fact, I get a certain look on my face at home and it's like, what are you gonna say now? Which business do you wanna start today?
And we actually learned, I would come, come to you with 10 ideas and you just. I, I see these, these are great. How about next time we bring three, you know, with, with the evidence? So I, I love that you said that. Uh, but that curation of, of information to send it is important. The things I send you is different than somebody else, and on the team, sometimes it's, this is business development.
I'm sending it to. All of our team, I try to consume in various places. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's mostly online, although right now I'm missing holding things, you know, getting back to a magazine or getting back to newspaper, you know, I think especially in the last year or two, it's very hard to trust your sources.
So what I would say, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna name specific names of [00:28:00] sources I, I go to, but I do even more so now try to. Double triple check items.
Donald Thompson: Mm.
Susie Silver: Because I'm not sure, even in things I've trusted in the past
Donald Thompson: Yeah.
Susie Silver: That I trust them anymore. And so, um, my, my brother, uh, which, you know, he's in employment law, so that side of things very important to me and Interesting.
So I'll get reports, you know, that I. This global law firm, I, I take from that source. Mm-hmm. I do a lot of online publications and then I do double back and say, okay, what do I trust? What do I not trust? And then if I feel like it's valid, I'll send it along. I also, this year in consumption, I've had to limit my consumption.
So,
Donald Thompson: mm-hmm.
Susie Silver: It's not that my learning has slowed down, I just try to find different sources. Not to give myself overwhelm, 'cause that can get overwhelming in itself, but what am I trying to learn? So, right now there's a lot on ai. I'm researching what I can learn on ai, you know, on leadership development, organizational effectiveness.
So for [00:29:00] what I do every day, I consume to help me be better. For one, myself and two, my, my family, of course. And then, then my job, uh, we have to limit sometimes for our own health. And so I've put boundaries on times. There's certain things. Um, I don't like videos of certain. Things, I, I won't listen 'cause even the audio can be a little bit upsetting.
And so then I tend to read articles more on something than listen or watch a video. So the learning occurs. My learning has shifted this year, uh, and it's been, uh, structured in a way that makes me better and also keeps me healthy.
Donald Thompson: Good stuff, and I appreciate that very much. I talk to a lot of women leaders and I hear things like, be your full self at work.
Take your agency, be bold, and I want your perspective on this statement. I think a lot of times women leaders being lied to, 'cause sometimes if you're [00:30:00] being bold in the wrong setting, you get typecast if you speak up in the wrong setting and you don't understand the power dynamic in the room. Right. Your boldness can be taken in a way that actually hurts your career.
Am I wrong in thinking about it that way? How would you have me unpack that as a woman leader, as a perspective? I have a point of view, um, but I want to hear yours, right, because sometimes I hear these buzz phrases and I'm like, don't do it that way, right? Yes. But I'd love your perspective.
Susie Silver: Yeah. Uh uh, it's unfortunately true.
I wish we could say things are progressed more so now and And they are in a sense, sense of course. That that happens every day of oh, you know, we hear be your authentic self people. I wanna use your words, be empowered. And, and we say this a lot in our, uh, consulting of, you know, we want everybody to bring their [00:31:00] authentic self so we can speak to about women, which we will.
And then think in the perspective of many other identities. Mm-hmm. We're a culture, bring your authentic self to work. That is easier said than done. That's right. And often to a previous point you made. It is an unfortunate lie. Do not state that unless you are ready for it. That that, and then I'm gonna explain a little bit further.
Donald Thompson: No, please. I'm, I'm super interested.
Susie Silver: That is the statement there. And that right there for leaders has a great self-reflection and self-awareness exercise to do. And we could insert any type of statement or culture performance statement here. Be bold, be authentic, bring yourself. Am I ready for that? And what comes outta that answer?
Why, why not? What's coming up for me? Am I gonna feel threatened? You know? And yes, we are typecast as women of being difficult, of being too emotional.
Donald Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Susie Silver: Of being distracted because we have so many other things. We are the. Best ones to hold all the [00:32:00] things, you know, I, I, not as a biased statement.
Donald Thompson: No.
Listen, I'll say speak your truth. Listen,
Susie Silver: I, I feel like I, and, and somewhere on a podcast a long time ago, somebody equated, um, and spoke to me of like the NASDAQ ticker, you know? Yeah. That is what my brain is like every day. And that is not to discredit the. Other people's brains work like that for women, women in business, women in leadership.
It's going all day long, and we can hold a lot more than people think we're capable of. And that emotional sense comes up. So if that happens, right? If you are a leader in a room, and it goes back to what I said just a minute ago of, huh, you know, Suzy's talking too much. Or, wow, she's, she's real emotional today.
Or Why is she, she's so difficult? Or whatever it might be. That is, uh. So what's happening there? And it's, it's a simple question of why, what's happening to me? What has happened before? And I'm distracted, so now I'm not listening to this person who [00:33:00] very well will bring something valuable mm-hmm. To the business, to the team.
And so that's how I work with a lot of leaders. We have to face a lot of, um, perceptions, a lot of assumptions that that happen. And so not only for yourself. The second challenge, when you observe it, interrupt it. And that could be a simple, a lot of times it's the interruption of women in spaces being spoken over.
Mm-hmm. Cannot tell you how many times I've been spoken over in my career. I'm not saying of our team because we, we actually catch each other. Hold on a second. But it's that if you, if I was saying something and you interrupted me, okay. Sometimes we're in the flow of a conversation, right. I know my team, but if it's a.
Hey, Don. Susie was saying something. Can we come? We're gonna come back to you in just a minute.
Donald Thompson: Mm-hmm.
Susie Silver: And sometimes leaders that CEOs feel not empowered to do that. They don't know how to do it. It's in theory. Oh yeah. I would say something, but when it comes time we don't. [00:34:00] Or it's a side conversation. We just got out of that meeting.
Sue. She was really emotional today actually. Was she emotional or really passionate about what she was talking about because she, she cares about her team and business. And that's not confrontational, that's not highly emotional. It's, I'm gonna break the cycle of what happens. So, yes, does it happen? I wish it was different.
It's what happens in the moment. And then after that will actually change things for, for people.
Donald Thompson: I, uh, I appreciate that very much because I have a perspective, but I like to. Balance my perspective with insight from people that they're living that experience, right? And so I really appreciate that, that feedback.
And I think, you know, one of the things I'm working on in this particular topic, in, in an article, but I want to take some of the, um, hype terms is what I'll call 'em, right? The pep, pep rally leadership terms. And how do we actually execute those in practice? Because one of the things [00:35:00] with underrepresented communities.
Is we're not typically taught how to manage the power narrative In every meeting we're in, we're taught how to be an engineer. We're taught how to be in computer science, how to be in communications, all of the things. But we're not really teaching people how to manage that environment so they can really read the room, right?
What things need to be said in the room, what need to be a follow-up email, what needs to be a personal sidebar conversation, and basically understanding the temperament and the tonality so that you can be effective. Being seen and heard is still a broad statement, so we need to narrow that down in our communication as as people in terms of how do you be effective when you're talking with people that are not like you?
How are you talking to people that have a different business goal than you? So you may have a goal as a corporation, but you've got different departments, different responsibilities, and how you get to that goal. Collaboration's another one of those big words, but what does that really show up? And to your point about when you see [00:36:00] things, being able to call them out, it's really about how much do you care about your teammates to where you can do the financial engineering to grow your business and you can build your culture at the same time.
I enjoy working with leaders that are chasing the ability to do all. They're not just focused on the fiscal numbers, which won't be as enduring if you don't have the culture right. Or people that over index on the culture. How do you do both and how do, how do you manage those things? So as we land the plane, I could talk to you literally all, all day, but, but we, we got other things we gotta get to.
Um, what would you like to share with our audience that I didn't ask as we, as we have this, this platform together and, and talk about building culture and performance?
Susie Silver: It's not so much about what you didn't ask. It's reiterating points about people are important. We know that we need to continue to practice that.
And as fast-paced as everything is in business, which we know and I love a successful business. [00:37:00] It is worthwhile to take the time to have these types of conversations. Mm-hmm. To define, even as you were talking, uh, just a minute ago about we don't know what collaboration means, define that as a team. Take the time.
It doesn't have to be an hour. You know, take the time with intention to marry. The culture and the performance and really define what that is and not to forget about it because we're moving so fast in different places and we are distracted because of other things we've talked about. Yep. Taking that time and, and really understanding that all of us as humans right now, regardless of how you feel about anything, we're holding a lot.
Donald Thompson: Yeah, that's
Susie Silver: right. And not to forget about that. Again, not to. Take away from performance, take away from the goals and the business outcomes, understand what it means to make all of that successful through your people and, and just not to forget those, those items. So it's, it's not so much what you didn't ask.
It's reiterating those points because they're so important, uh, to, [00:38:00] to business and people and, and this whole conversation.
Donald Thompson: One of the things as we end, and I really appreciate this conversation, is you don't have to choose between empathy and economics.
Susie Silver: That's correct.
Donald Thompson: You can do both. And, uh, one of the things that I try to do and is help me over my career in immensely is I talk to a lot of really talented and bright folks.
And, uh, I was talking to one of our partners, uh, this morning and you know, Eric, uh, at Alps Yes. That works on our technology, our data analytics and, and all the things. So Eric, Dr. Eric Surface, a great friend of ours in, in the organization, but he said something on a call we were on this morning as we were reviewing some, some data.
He said technology is changing at a faster pace than ever before, but the pace of human change is still the same. You need to make sure you're balancing those things, and I thought that was very wise, very thoughtful. And one of the things that we're all striving to do is managing how we deliver, uh, a better [00:39:00] workplace for all.
And so Susie, I'm very, very proud to be in business with you, partnering with you. Um, we are now part of a much bigger, uh, organization at Workplace Options and launching the Center of Organizational Effectiveness, uh, together and having a great time doing that. Um, but thank you for spending time on, uh, on hi Octane leadership and until next time, uh, DTO are out.
Susie Silver: Thank you for joining us on High Octane Leadership with Donald Thompson.
Donald Thompson: Today's episode is a step in our collective journey towards leadership excellence. Remember, every story we share and every insight we gain is a piece in the puzzle of our leadership journey. For more insight and detail, hit the subscribe button so that we can stay connected.
For deeper information and more episodes, go to donald thompson.com. Continue to lead with vision and purpose, and until we meet again, embrace your role as a high tane leader in the ever evolving world of [00:40:00] business.