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The Home of Self Build, Custom Build & Renovation
• 67,000 sq. ft. year-round resource centre with 200+ stands
• Independent advice on everything from planning to plastering
• Self Build courses, exhibitions and Architect consultation days
• Free entry, plenty of parking and easy access just off the M4
These episodes will investigate various subjects in more detail, with expert guests, and previewing upcoming shows and events to help you with your potential or current self build and renovation projects.
Well, welcome back.
We're now here for panel
number two of the day of
the Self-Build and Renovation Show,
twenty twenty four, Friday,
October the eleventh.
So there is another day to go,
as I keep saying.
So if you're not here, get down here.
If you're watching this in the evening,
not live.
Seriously,
we were just sat here chatting
about the buzz that's out there.
It's just so heartwarming to
hear so much going on.
We did the Rome a moment ago
that really gave you an
insight into everything
that you can see here.
We've still got more to cover.
right panel number two this
one is pitfalls and
opportunities quite a wide
uh subject that one and it
really is to try and look
at some of those
possibilities the idea of
the panel is we've got some
experts in in different
angles and we're going to
then just let this
conversation go I'm not
from this environment I am
from the production company
so I get to ask questions
that you might think what
on earth how do I not know that
It makes sure that everybody
is on the same level.
The good news is I've got
guys here that do know what
they're talking about.
No pressure.
I've got Andrew Jones.
Introduce yourself, Andrew.
Hi.
As it's touched on,
my name is Andrew Jones.
And my specialist topic
today is going to be my foot.
No, sorry.
It's going to be VAT.
It is.
You're the hero for everyone, I'd imagine.
So it is about things that
we can claim VAT are back on.
Well,
hopefully I'm viewed after the build
as the nice fat man rather
than the horrid one.
That's the objective anyway.
I think that's a fair assumption.
I think you're on safe grounds there.
And then we've got Simon.
Introduce yourself.
yeah I'm simon orrells from
frame technologies um so
we're talking everything
timber frame um and as I've
always said if we if it can
be drawn we can build it in
timber frame so one day it
could catch me out we've
been close a couple of
times but we we love to
turn around and sort of
challenge the engineers and
challenge the designers um
into the sort of raw state of
People want to build something different.
And when they're building
their own home these days,
they don't want it to match next door.
They want to literally have something very,
very inspiring.
So we're using the latest technology,
latest materials.
So yeah, if we can draw it,
it can be built.
I've actually written that
down because I'm going to
see whether we can say true
to that by the end of this.
I'm not going to
deliberately try to trick you,
but I just want to see.
I've made a note,
and I might use that phrase myself.
And Nick, obviously,
we've got you joining us
because this is quite an
interesting topic from your perspective.
Yeah,
so some people have been maybe
watching throughout the day
or early episodes of the
series might know me by now,
or you might be tuning in
for the first time.
So if you are, then I'm Nick.
I'm Sustainability Manager
at the National South
London Renovation Centre.
And I've been teaming up
with Chris really on a lot
of our filming today and
throughout the centre and
chatting with a lot of our exhibitors.
And the point being is from
that sustainability manager angle,
this is ideal.
Absolutely.
So I've got my sustainability hat on.
I'm the NSVLC's first
sustainability manager.
That's a brand new role
that's been created in the
last couple of months,
which really shows the
direction of travel for the
centre and show that it's
really a through thread in
everything we do.
And I think where I maybe
I'm going to be able to add
a little bit of value into
this conversation of
pitfalls and opportunities
is from a retrospective perspective,
because that's where that's
our brand new project of
our new exhibit that we're
going to be building and
it's going to be launching next year.
So very exciting.
Makes sense.
I was really struggling there, though,
when you said that you were
the first sustainability manager.
And the last one so far.
Let's see how sustainable that job is.
And I went, don't go there.
I just did everywhere.
Hopefully.
I hope so, too.
I enjoy working with you.
I enjoy working with you.
Right.
First question then,
because obviously we get
thrown in a few questions
around this topic.
From your perspective,
I'm going to start with you, Andrew,
what are the biggest
project pitfalls to avoid
and opportunities not to miss?
Now,
I'd imagine opportunities not to miss
is more relevant to you, isn't it?
Yes and no.
To qualify as a private
individual to reclaim the VAT,
you must be creating a new
dwelling in its own right.
Okay,
so that can't be an arm next to an
existing house.
You must be creating a new dwelling.
And that can be on a greenfield site.
That can be knocked down and
rebuilt on an existing site.
It can be bringing a house
that's been empty for over
ten years back to life.
So that could fall into the
renovation as well.
Yeah, so if...
If there's a house in your
town or city that's been
empty since the day you can remember,
I've got one in my local village.
There was a tree growing through the roof.
And as a child,
it was a shortcut to get to the park.
And I always used to worry
this place is haunted.
So you'd run as fast as you
can through there.
Somebody about three years
ago got hold of it,
got planning to reinstate it,
and they can get the VAT back then.
Right.
Is there an actual figure on that?
You said ten years.
Is that the actual figure?
It must have been empty and
you must have a paper trail
evidence in that it's been
empty for over ten years.
Wow.
But over and above that,
converting anything that's
never been lived in to a
habitable dwelling.
So that's the most
fashionable ones at the
moment are barn conversions,
churches and chapels.
You get a lot of building for your buck.
See,
I'd be thinking they're haunted going
back to their thing as a kid.
I'd be worried about that.
It's getting somewhat
fashionable a little bit
again now to move back into
the inner city.
So where your dentist or
solicitor is retiring,
if you were to purchase
that building and turn that
back into your family home,
that would also qualify.
Although the route to market
is different in relation to
what the project is.
Wow, okay.
Do they still,
I'm going off on a weird tangent now,
but I always used to have a
hankering for like an old waterworks.
Yeah, yeah.
Because they're big spaces, aren't they?
Yeah, I've done things like that.
Really?
Yeah,
ones with these turn wheel things on
the side.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think it's just because I
saw it on the TV program, to be honest,
and it looked amazing.
Yeah, but really wacky from the outside.
So, OK,
so in terms of of pitfalls is you
need to make sure that this
project truly qualifies and
understand your route to market.
Yeah, because it can be different.
And that's presumably where
your service comes in,
is that they're able to
come to you with the
situation and you're able to say, yeah,
your name.
Yeah, I'm very much so.
Having an early project chat
I actually spoke to someone
on the way up in the car
driving here today.
One I didn't touch on there
is where I said knock down and rebuild.
If you leave one facade standing,
that would also qualify as
a new build in the eyes of HMRC.
So I had a chap on the phone
just I was driving over the
Severn Bridge coming here.
He is putting in planning in
the next few weeks.
And he wanted to know what
his position was in relation to,
he had a bungalow,
he was going to put a house there.
He wanted to know what his
position was if he leaves X, Y,
Z standing.
And it needs to be basically just Y.
OK, so, yeah, he thought X, Y and Z. Yeah,
so he now, the conversation started,
I'm going to leave A wall,
which became two walls,
which became three walls.
And I said, well,
I like the first bit you said,
but not the two bits after.
So he's now gone back to his
architect and his
structural engineer to see
what exactly he can and can't do.
And then once they've come
up with a suggestion to try
and meet the criteria,
because with that being twenty percent,
It's a massive game changer
on his project.
So he's going to go back to
his structural engineer and
his architect and then send
me what he would like to do
or what they think is
doable to decide then
whether that would achieve
the criteria for him to be
zero rated on his project.
Wow.
Andrew,
that sparked another thought in my mind,
which I'm sure I've heard you talk about,
which is,
does it change your eligibility
for the VAT reclaim on a project like,
well,
any of those projects you just mentioned,
if you're doing that to resell,
as opposed to if you're
doing it to live there yourself?
The scheme that I specialize in personally,
which the vast majority of
the people out there today
would qualify if they're
meeting the right criteria,
would be building, doing a self-build,
building something for
themselves in the first instance.
You're not tied there forever in a day.
You can move on and so forth.
But it cannot be built
deliberately to sell in the
first instance.
Otherwise, you're a developer.
And the scheme is for private individuals.
People...
possibly working within the industry,
but as a norm, work in other industries,
have a day job and so forth,
building their own house.
Yeah, I thought that was the case,
but I also knew you'd be
much more eloquent talking about it.
I don't know if that's the case.
How long do you have to live
in it before you could sell it?
It's actually not the requirement by HMRC.
The requirement is you must
meet the criteria at the
point of submitting the claim.
but I would have thought
there'd be capital gains
issues and so forth,
but that's slightly outside my remit.
But as far as the VAT are concerned,
you must meet the criteria
at the point of submitting the claim,
and that's where it ends.
Makes sense.
Because it's an interesting
scenario with leaving
certain existing walls in
to turn around with the VAT,
because one of the
questions we get asked time
and time again is where, obviously,
with timber frame being so flexible,
people will say, right,
I've struggled to buy a lot,
but I bought this
bungalow and I want to turn
around and take the roof
off and I want to turn
around and go up on it so
I've got an existing
structure and then I want
to put a timber frame on
the top on the first floor
of it obviously timber
frame is very light so
obviously the existing
foundations will turn
around and easily take the
first floor construction
and obviously with the
amount of lightweight
cladding used these days we
don't need to worry about
cavity details and things
like that but I'll always say
All right, well, okay,
then you've got your existing one globe.
You can turn around and take that up,
but you won't be able to
claim the VAT back on it.
And so it's one of those then,
because obviously it's one of those,
if we do it as a complete knockdown,
you've got total claiming
on the VAT because it's all zero rated.
And it's surprising how many
times people don't realise
that what that cost can be
to turn around and convert
that bungalow into a into a
two-story house and what
the what the likelihood of
that that money that they
can't claim back that
something makes me realize
that can quite often make
them realize I need to
knock this down and start
again and and then because
I always say to them well
ultimately you're keeping
the existing ground floor
why oh yeah but I've got
half the house and that's
like yeah but you're going
to determine and change the
windows you're going to put
all new services in it
you've got to reclaim the
outside because the brickwork shot
you really need to
reconfigure the inside so
what are you actually
saving and by the time you
add all those costs on that
you can't claim the vat
back it makes it makes it
quite interesting so it's
quite good having people
like andrew on board for
people to actually
understand sometimes the
short-term answer isn't the
long-term solution and of
course you'd have consistency of
construction and so forth
which because obviously um
as Nick's saying from a
sustainability point of
view I said well yeah well
you've got you've got an
existing uh traditional
built masonry built ground
floor and then we're going
to put a lightweight timber
frame on top of it so the
problem one of the one of
the things you have then is
as Andrew says then it's
obviously different
construction types which
isn't necessarily a problem
but obviously heat movement
Because at the end of the day,
you want to control the
heat in that house as a complete unit.
And so you've got a first floor, very,
very energy efficient, zero heating unit,
and then a ground floor
that's leaking like a sieve.
And so you're upgrading that.
And so these days, again,
that short-term answer, quite often,
because...
Self builders are wanting to
do the short term pain for
the long term gain.
And so that's why quite
often and quite a few
debates we've had in the
build it theatre.
It's like my five whys of
why don't you knock it down?
Why are you doing what you want to do?
Because I thought
And it's just to get people
to think about that process,
because it's said it's
usually not the the
architect will sort of try
and take it down the road, obviously,
of keeping that existing,
because obviously there's a
lot more work to do and
obviously a lot more work
for the architects,
a lot more fees for the
architect and a lot more
cost for the client.
But what's the best solution
for the project?
And you're only as strong as
your weakest link within that entire
thing at the end of the day
like you were saying there
with the ground floor yeah
once you start thinking
well it's not like I'm
taking all the windows out
replacing them with the
same openings nine times
out of ten you're because
you're reconfiguring the
layout you're moving in the
openings so you're going to
fill that window in there
open the window up here
then you've got structural
issues your foundation
isn't obviously up to
standard so that's not
going to deliver the
performance as well and
obviously everybody now is
trying to not just get
thermal performance but
wants to get a very
airtight house as well
because obviously if you've
got air leakage you've got
energy leakage yeah and if
you've got energy leakage
you've got to replace that
which replacing that energy
back in and placing that
heat back in is going to
cost you money yeah so
you've got to really you've
got to think about it and
as I said the first first
answer is not can quite
often not be the best
And does that answer,
because obviously I asked
originally Andrew the question,
what are the biggest
project pitfalls to avoid
and opportunities not to miss?
I think you've kind of crossed into that,
but possibly being led by that topic.
Is there others from your
side that you would almost
kind of go avoid these
pitfalls and don't miss
these opportunities?
I think the big thing these
days is getting whoever's
doing the superstructure
and obviously from a timber
frame perspective is get us
involved in the project as
early as possible.
The traditional procurement
method used to be you find your plot,
you get your local architect on board,
you get planning,
you get the detailed design done,
and then it's like, right,
I've got my detailed design
building ready.
I'm now ready to build my
four-bedroom house.
What am I going to build it
out of to start with?
And then start to procure.
That's too late.
Yeah,
even down to basics is that suddenly
they go, actually, no,
that doesn't satisfy the
planning that we just got.
Well, the problem you've got –
These days,
there's lots of different build systems.
There's lots of different
overheating scenarios.
There's lots of different
things to consider.
And as I said earlier,
it's one of those where if
it can be drawn, it can be built.
People are pushing the parameters.
So whereas timber frame, for instance, ten,
fifteen years ago was a
case of you've got your architect,
he did the detailed design,
and then your timber frame
literally got designed off
those drawings.
These days now,
we want to be in the very early stages.
So it's a case of you get your architect,
you get your planning.
Pre-putting it in for planning,
we want to see those
drawings because we want to
sense check that design to say, one,
it's value engineered.
and two what that budget
cost is going to give you
because we can quite often
go back and then say well I
would I would reduce that
window I'd increase that
overhang I'd get rid of
that return there because
it'll save you money
because the minute now
they've got planning we
want to take over the
project and do the detailed design
And that's where it's
changed in the centre here
now so much that your
timber frame and your
package home provider is
actually giving you far,
far bigger package.
We're not just supplying
external walls and roofs now.
We want to deal with all these sort of
thermal performance,
structural performance,
foundation design.
We deal with that as well
because we'll have clients
ring us up and say, right,
you priced that job for us.
We finally got planning permission now.
We've done the foundations.
The foundations are in and
we're ready for you to come and measure.
Hold on a minute.
What part do you not
understand of me saying do
not drop a bucket in the
ground until you've got
your superstructure provider on board?
Because people always say
you can lose money in the
ground or you can make
money in the ground.
And depending on the
Nowadays, for your structural warranty,
you have to have a specific
soil assessment done for
the soil types in that foundation.
You can't just say as a local builder,
I've lived in this village
for twenty years and for
the last twenty years,
this is the foundations I've always done.
They always have to be plot specific.
So it's get us involved as
early as we can and also
It's one of those because
obviously access restrictions,
because obviously at the end of the day,
we make the panel.
So we can make the panel the
length of a lorry,
or we can make the panel four foot long.
So if we've got a project
where we had one in Devon a
couple of years ago,
where it had to be
delivered off the main high
street through and under walkway,
literally round the back.
And it's still that four
bedroom house was up in
four to five days.
But the locals were thinking,
you ain't going to get that
Arctic load the panels through there.
But if you if we're involved early enough,
you can design it to the
parameters of what you need to do,
which is why quite often
we'll do quite a lot of
extensions with timber
frame because you can
actually make them work and
the products quite light.
So if you have to obviously
normally we'd like to crane
erected forklift erected
mechanical handling.
But if we have to handball it,
then it can be done.
I am picking up with your
first comment about if it can be drawn,
it can be built in timber,
and with that as well,
you do like being challenged, don't you?
I can tell that's your way.
I'm quite passionate that that's the way.
I've done timber and timber
frame for a long time,
but we have one of the
other sides of the business
now with self-builders
struggling to find building
plots is we do a lot of class Q projects.
Class Q project means that
you'll get an existing
steel frame agricultural bar.
Then the farmer sold it off,
got planning on it for a class Q,
which is easier to get planning.
But from a self builder's point of view,
then they can get a plot in
open countryside and a
reasonable size by having this barn.
So you then take all the cladding off it,
and we then infill that
barn with a timber frame solution.
And people are like, well,
how can you have a barn
that was built for agriculture?
Thirty years ago,
put an offsite timber frame
that's designed on computer
fit inside it.
And we had that exact
situation on a project in
Stratford back in the
spring where the plot was a
parallelogram.
So it's completely out.
There's no square wall in it.
And the roof is a double barrel curve.
The ground workers took
three attempts to get the
groundworks incorrect.
And he said,
You're mad, or might well be mad,
but what do you mean?
You're never going to design
that in a factory in North
Herefordshire and deliver
it to site and it all go up.
And we did.
And we never altered one panel.
And so that just shows
you've got to be involved
early enough to steer the
project because we've got
all our sort of designers
and engineers and everything.
This is what they live and breathe,
to just steer that to get
the best result.
and was uh andrew was that
sufficiently changed then
to qualify for the it would
it would now a class q
would qualify for five
percent vat from
contractors in the first
instance rather than zero rating
And a common error is that
people think that, or barn conversions,
and we say that that was a
barn conversion,
although it was just the steels,
it would still probably have,
the planning would still
have read conversion of
existing farm building or
something along those lines.
Then the common error there
is that people either,
obviously it wouldn't be Simon,
but someone with less
knowledge would zero rate
the invoice because it's a new build.
but it's not a new build,
it's a conversion.
So somebody such as Simon
erecting on site the
superstructure should be
charging five percent VAT.
Wow.
They make it easy, don't they?
Yeah, yeah.
I think they do it deliberately.
Because if you don't get this right,
you don't get your money no
no exactly so uh the
contractor charges five
percent when you go and
shop yourselves you buy you
buy your kitchen if if
you're buying blocks sand
cement whatever at juice
and travis perkins and so
on other shops then you pay
twenty percent
as you would normally now
then come the end of the
build and this is another
common error people don't
realize you can actually
claim the five percent from
your contractors as long as
you've been charged five
percent plus you claim the
full twenty percent on a
conversion for your
purchases so you get all
your vat back but it's
quite commonly thought oh
barn conversions five percent
where it ends no it doesn't
you've created an
indwelling at zero but you
get there on a two-tiered
type system but knowing all
this from the outset is key
it is it is and I mean
picking up simon on your
comment nick we've had it
multiple times in the
episodes we've done already
where the amount it seems
doing different things
within this center and it's that cut
get more of it covered early
because as early as you can
because as as andrew said
there one of the one of the
pitfalls they have to watch
there's a lot of class cues
that we have to say at all
the stage we want
confirmation that it's
going to be charged at five
percent well not being
funny simon if you were to
charge the wrong rate the
vat you'd be liable for it
so you have to make sure we
have to make sure that
you've covered yourself and
that you're charging the right thing
Because people say, oh,
I'm having difficulty
getting XYZ trade to do this.
Yeah, they're only covering themselves.
And with all due respect,
you make timber frames.
You're not an accountancy company.
So it's a bit unfair.
It's a bit unfair.
But you also have to watch
that now Class Q has become
so popular that you're also
getting what they call
betterment on Class Q. So
people will get a Class Q.
They've then got three
years to get their plan in.
and get it completed but
what they will do is turn
around and actually go back
in for full planning so
then it doesn't become a
class it doesn't become a
conversion it is then a new
dwelling so it's then zero
rated but if they take
eighteen months two years
to get that planning they
then only got twelve months
to actually build their
class queue if they get
failed it failed on their
planning so it is you the
devil's in the detail but
it is it is talking to us
guys as early as you can
I'm conscious that we're now
within our last sort of
five minutes of this.
The problem indeed,
you picked two people that like to talk.
Honestly, as Nick will testify to,
it's absolutely perfect.
And it's great.
And let's be honest,
is that if we were given a free reign,
we could probably sit here
and chat for about two hours about it.
and the the key point I
would pick up on that's
because there is an awful
lot that needs to be
discussed to be considered
and I'll come back to the
comment nick that we've
been saying all day and in
every episode in fact is
that the nsbrc brings all
of you together under one
roof to come down to this
facility and I'm not
employed by them I'm not
saying this with the bias
it's just blown my mind
is that you can come here
and speak to all of you as
experts at these shows and
the fact that your your
stands are here at all
times to be able to get in
contact with you whether
you're here or not and it's
have those conversations
and nothing's a silly
conversation is a fair
statement isn't it no yeah
no no no there is no such
thing as a silly question
yeah people knowing nothing
at all this very much
should be their stuff yeah because
Yes, myself, Simon,
we're all here to make
money and do business at
the end of the day.
But we're totally aware that
the people coming through
the door are here to be
educated and are here to
learn and to be able to
make knowledgeable
decisions from a position
of power rather than just guesswork,
which is where you make mistakes.
And we've had many of the
guests that have turned
around and said is that
they could come and speak to you, Simon.
And you go, do you know what?
It's not us you need to speak to.
Come with me.
Yeah.
This is who you need to speak to.
Yeah, because you work as a team here.
And we've been here for
twelve or thirteen years in the Centre.
So we're one of the very originals.
And we've seen it evolve over time.
But the Centre is very much
a family atmosphere.
And one of the new
exhibitors said to me this morning,
What's it like from a network here?
How far do people travel?
I said,
you'll get people from all corners
of the UK here will come to Swindon.
And I think once they...
There's a lot of people
still don't know about it,
but it's growing massively.
And I think as exhibitors,
we always keep pushing out
to everybody pre-show to say,
come to the show and see.
Once you've been here,
you just realise that
you've got a... It's a
go-to place that...
any self builders got to
come three or four times
before they start their their journey,
because it isn't just
looking around the show as
well as the courses.
There's all the other things
to do that because as a self builder,
they want to try and keep
the cost down as much as they can.
They want to do as much of
it as we always say.
You get sort of dirty hand
self builders and clean hand.
There's a lot of them that
are trying to save money,
want to be hands on as much
as they possibly can.
So they'll come in here four, five,
six times before they'll
actually start their journey.
And the fact that it's open
six days a week as well.
So whether it's one of our
busier events or it's on a
quieter day when you just want to go and
see something specific and explore.
That I think is the golden
nugget for the centre
compared to a lot of
commercial exhibitions,
that it's that environment
that people feel more
comfortable with and more at home with,
that they can just sort of rock up and
go through and like this
weekend now it's surprising
how many you'll see of
people here now over the
two days they're here for
the two days and when we
come back in January you'll
have people here for three
days and you're like how
can you be here for three
days but there's that much
information to take in and
self-builders that come
here are like sponges for
information yeah
because it's their money
yeah all at different
stages all at different
levels of knowledge and you
guys just literally cover
you know cater for them
accordingly uh and
obviously the other big
thing with these uh these
these exhibitions I'm not
supposed to put an
exhibition that might but
it is isn't it is that okay
you can call it an
exhibition I wasn't getting
in trouble then you know um
is that there are two
theaters running a whole
sequence of presentations
over the two days uh
Andrew,
you are presenting both days in the
Build It Theatre at three p.m.
Yeah, thanks for that.
You're welcome.
I'll make sure I'm there now.
And Simon,
you're also doing both days in
the Build It Theatre at two p.m.
Yeah.
So it's warm up time.
Give me a shout when you come off.
So something that came up
this week before we move on the topic,
a client rung me, never spoken before,
but he said to me that he'd
attended my talk two years ago.
right yeah but some because
I said I tend to say you
know have we met et cetera
et cetera and he said no
but I've been following you
on youtube I followed all
your instructions and
everything you said on
stage he said I actually
went to the center at
swindon on four occasions
and I did two of their courses,
a three-day course,
and a day or a two-day
course on something else.
This chap lived in Kent,
built at the top end of Scotland.
So where you said about they
come from far and wide.
It's a no-brainer.
There's hotels on site.
But if you're undertaking a
project of this size, this magnitude...
you know,
you can actually make it happen
without a disaster.
This is the biggest thing
you're ever going to do or
buy in your life.
And for many, it's their forever home.
Which is why the benchmark
thing from you guys has come in.
I've only got a minute to go,
but I did think that's a
good segue into that.
We'll catch up with
Christina in our next round.
But it's the perfect place
for that exact thing where
it's that repeat thing.
Right,
final thing then to wrap up before I
get in trouble is to both
of you the same question.
Why should someone come and speak to you?
What can they get from
coming and speaking to you at this show?
Do you want to go first, Simon?
Thank you.
It's live information.
And as we said,
getting us in front of them
as soon as we can to get
them thinking about the
different options they've got.
Because as we said earlier,
if we can draw it, it can be built.
I just love that one.
I do love it.
I want to get it back in again.
I do want to put that to the
test because in May when we
did the Festival of Sustainable Homes,
we had a little activity
for kids to draw their
dream sustainable home.
Maybe I should have brought
some of those along.
There we are.
Blue Peter from back in the day.
Blue Peter.
We've done the demos here so
we can turn around and you
draw it over there,
we'll build it over there.
But even if they haven't
decided that they're
definitely going timber yet,
that's another reason why
they should come speak to you.
They should come and speak
to us because at the end of the day,
seventy five percent of
self builders are building
in timber frame.
So at the end of the day,
sometimes they don't
understand the superstructure.
Sometimes they don't
understand the advantages.
And it's like everything else.
There's numerous systems in the center,
and not one system suits a
hundred percent of the projects.
But timber frame will suit
seventy five percent of them.
And that's where if we need
to hybridise it with other
systems underground or whatever we can,
but it's one of those where
come and speak to us that
we actually give you that
sort of live information
and actually throw the whys
back to you of why are you doing this?
Why are you doing that?
Why did you say you want to
use that insulation?
Do you realise if you use
that insulation that this could happen?
And really, because as Andrew said earlier,
there's massive knowledge
in this place of the people here.
we just want to keep talking
to people as you found this
afternoon we can't you
can't keep us quiet okay so
I'd like to speak to any
self-builder early doors to
make sure that they are
being charged the correct
rate of vat that they
understand where they
should be paying that if
they should be paying that
what rate of vat
and in relation to just
things such as the names on the invoices.
You quite often see people
who are self-employed in their own right,
or maybe have a property portfolio.
So in my instance,
I've got my Screwfix
account in the name of
Andrew Jones Lettings,
which is just something I
made up when I opened my
Screwfix account.
That now would be a problem
if I wanted to go and claim
my VAT back as a self-builder,
because it gives the
impression that it's a business.
As a self-builder,
it cannot be a business.
It needs to be in your name personally.
making sure that when Peter
the plumber says to you,
I don't do this VAT-free mumbo-jumbo,
I'll give you a VAT receipt
and you claim it back,
that's not the case.
If you're going to pay VAT
to Peter the plumber
because he's not sure of
the rules and so on,
and you will not get that VAT back.
So at that point, you need to decide,
are we happy to pay Peter a
twenty percent premium?
And also, are we happy to use Peter,
someone who
is oblivious to the rules or
doesn't want to know the new rules.
Because things change, don't they, Simon?
And we need to be keeping up
to date with these things.
So you need to decide then,
is maybe Peter the... And the thing is,
regulations and everything
are changing all the time
in this industry.
So coming here,
talking to people like ourselves,
you're actually going to
get that live information, not historic.
That's the point,
you're all over it all the time.
Yeah, exactly.
Because we live and breathe it.
So it's...
right I'm going to stop it
there because we can carry
on talking forever we've
already everyone gentlemen
thank you so much for
coming in the big problem
thank you very much thank
you guys and you won't have
that limit on the time
you'll be able to keep
speaking to them it's
absolutely brilliant so
thank you both for coming
in for that one we're going
to be taking a little bit
of a break and it's our
next one isn't until two
o'clock and that will be
we'll do a bit of a roam round and then
Absolutely.
Yeah,
we're going to start with Christina
telling us all about Benchmark,
our new membership,
and then we'll have a bit
more of a roam around the Trade Village.
Perfect.
We've got another half to do
of that one in the Trade Village.
And then at three p.m.,
we're back for panel number three,
which is navigating
regulations and shaping your vision.
Crikey.
It sure is.
See you later.
Cheers.