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In the first episode of the new year, Beth and Stephen co-host the first episode in our new four-part series around boundaries. Join them today as they discuss the "how" and "why" of four important boundaries every mentoring relationship needs to have.
Show Notes
In the first episode of the new year, Beth and Stephen co-host the first episode in our new four-part series around boundaries. Join them today as they discuss the "how" and "why" of four important boundaries every mentoring relationship needs to have.
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
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Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles
Speaker 2:and give
Speaker 1:you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Beth Winter, and I am here with my co host and coworker and boss, Stephen Murray.
Speaker 3:Hello, everyone.
Speaker 2:What are we talking about today, Stephen?
Speaker 3:Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries. Like the Rio Grande River, but in the context of a mentor relationship.
Speaker 2:Can you define that in a little more concrete terms for the listeners?
Speaker 3:Well, maybe not concrete, but definitely steel bars. Oh, gosh. The Rio Grande divides the United States of America from Mexico.
Speaker 2:And maybe bring it back central to why are we talking about it on a mentoring podcast?
Speaker 3:It's a very natural boundary. And for mentor relationships, you need to establish boundaries. Boundaries of the relationship. What you will do, what you will not do, expectations of your mentee, his mom, your mentor, boundaries are important. Because without boundaries, we don't know who we are and what's expected of us.
Speaker 3:That's why we have skin Woah. Is to separate me from you.
Speaker 2:What? K. Okay. Let's back that up a little bit.
Speaker 3:What? If we were just, like, a bunch of souls walking around, we wouldn't really know where I end and you begin. So the fact that we have bodies is very helpful. So I know what's me and what's you.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:That's a very philosophical way to put it.
Speaker 2:You've been doing a lot of philosophy today, so can't wait to see how this plays out. It's great.
Speaker 3:Well Mentors have bodies. That's what we're getting at.
Speaker 2:That's true. And so do mentees.
Speaker 3:And so we need boundaries.
Speaker 2:Great. Alright. Is that what you planned to say?
Speaker 3:Lightning round illustrations of boundaries, and and I don't know if they satisfied you. I don't
Speaker 2:Somehow, you brought up, like, a huge political issue as well as a freaky philosophical abstractism.
Speaker 3:I I think they both would be I can't think of 2 better examples of boundaries.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, I I personally hope that throughout this podcast, we do think of a couple more examples.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I know what you mean.
Speaker 3:Symbolic boundaries.
Speaker 2:It's great. We'll do some of that and some more, tangible ones.
Speaker 3:Did you know that there here's another. So in the book of Genesis, there's always, like, this these these pairings of things. It's like God separates the day from the night. He separates the land from the water. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so I think you could say, even from the beginning of the Bible, that boundaries are incredibly important in the creative order. Mhmm. Boom. There's number 3.
Speaker 2:There we go. 3rd time's the try. Wait. 3rd time's the trick? What's that saying?
Speaker 2:3rd
Speaker 3:The charm.
Speaker 2:There we go. 3rd time's the charm. It's great. We have come up with a few boundaries to talk to y'all about today that's gonna be helpful in your mentor relationship. And so there's a lot we could discuss, but we've narrowed it down to at least 4 that are gonna be relevant in all mentor relationships.
Speaker 2:So in healthy boundaries, what is number 1 healthy boundary that we need to think about with our mentor relationships? Steven?
Speaker 3:Great. So we're putting aside the Rio Grande bodies and the creative order. And we're we're just talking about mentor relationships.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 3:Okay. So in your mentor relationship, a healthy boundary to understand or something that would be helpful for you to understand your mentor relationship is that you are not a parent Mhmm. Or a replacement for a parent. I think that is helpful a helpful foundational would you call it a belief? Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm walking into this relationship with the understanding that I'm not a parent.
Speaker 2:I guess that's a belief, but it's also just
Speaker 3:Or assumption.
Speaker 2:Whether you believe it or not, it's still true. So it is just a fact.
Speaker 3:So I'm not a parent. What is a parent? It's a parent that I'm not a parent. Wow. A parent takes responsibility for their children eating, giving them shelter Discipline.
Speaker 3:Providing security. Yeah. Discipline. Maybe even having transportation. You can add that in there.
Speaker 3:There are a lot of responsibilities that fall into the parent category that aren't necessarily in the mentor category. That doesn't mean you can't help with homework, or give them rides places, or meet some tangible need. But at the end of the day, you don't take financial responsibility for this child. You are not bailing them out of jail or cosigning on a loan. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Those are, like, things that parents should even pray about doing. But if it's going to be somebody, it's probably gonna be a parent. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I feel like that's a boundary that both the mentor, the mentee, and actually also the actual parent of the mentee all need to be on the same page about, which is probably true of every boundary, but I really see that one. Because I could see in some circumstances when, like, maybe it's a single parent who is seeing this mentor come in, and they're like, oh, this is my support that I've needed. And it's kind of in this moment of desperation, maybe putting more expectations than what is fair of a mentor. And if a mentor doesn't have a lot of clarity on what is a fair expectation of them, they might find themselves in a situation that, really, they weren't prepared for, weren't ready for, and isn't actually what they should be signing up for, to take on just more of a parent's level of ownership of a kid.
Speaker 3:Can you give an example of someone who's crossed that line?
Speaker 2:Do you have an example? I don't know if I do.
Speaker 3:I I I don't have a specific example. I I can tell you from my experience, like this weekend, hanging out with our friend's daughter who doesn't have a dad in her life. She's sitting in the back seat of my truck with Ben, and she just kept saying, I wish you were my dad. Mhmm. I wish you were my dad.
Speaker 3:I wish you were my dad. Mhmm. And on at her level, she sees relationship with me as something that she's not had before in a father figure. And she has a great relationship with her grandfather. But but still, there's a desire for a relationship with dad.
Speaker 3:And so what is my response to that? I mean, I can I can go spiraling and think through all of these things that I could do to fill that hole in her heart? I could get super intentional and every day respond to her Facebook messages, which are crazy. Like, yesterday, it was, would you rather find treasure or melted ice cream? And I was like, that is a very easy question to answer.
Speaker 2:Like, too easy to where feel like it's a trick question. I should go with the melted ice cream.
Speaker 3:And she she's painting me, like, painting me paintings for my children. Like, she sent me a picture of m m, which are the initials of my daughter that's coming in November. And she's like, well, you need to come over by 7 PM, because that's her bedtime. She's like, be sure to be here to pick these up. And I I'm just sharing that.
Speaker 3:That's my relationship with her, because we're good friends with her family. The temptation is very real to feel like I can fill this this gap of dad in her life, even though it looks different. Yeah. But really, for me to acknowledge, I can't fill that, but I can show up. I can be intentional with the time that I have for her, and I can help her deal with her emotions about that pain that she has.
Speaker 3:I just can't be her dad. Mhmm. Is that a good example?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, that's real. Yeah. I hadn't really thought I was thinking more of the perspective of what the mentor might be thinking and wanting to step into that role or even what, like, a single parent might be thinking of kind of looking at this mentor as a, like, a lifeline that's been tossed into their path. I hadn't really thought about it from the kid's perspective of seeing a mentor as a replacement parent.
Speaker 2:And then that even just makes me think about the kids in our program and how there is like this the kids compare their dads all the time. Kids compare like, well, my dad has a a lifted truck and has a TV in the back. Like, half of what they say isn't even true, but it's just like, I wanna be proud of my dad. I wanna show him off, and I want my dad to be better than your dad. And we see that same activity and same conversation happening with our kids, with their mentors.
Speaker 2:And I think it's just, like, the the seeking of wanting to have somebody to brag on in the same way that other kids are bragging on their their dad. They've got this mentor. And so I just I didn't yeah. I never even really connected that.
Speaker 3:For a mentor, the reason this is a healthy boundary is that you don't have to take on the weight Mhmm. Of being a parent, because that is a that is a responsibility. And and I think most mentors, they feel like a benevolent responsibility to take that on just naturally, because they realize the deficit that a kid may have Mhmm. Of whether he doesn't have a father figure or mother figure, and how can I engage and and meet needs? But there's there's a point where you've you've breached past health Mhmm.
Speaker 3:In in if if it's like a constant every single night, you're putting out fires in this kid's life, and which may be true for a parent of a teenager who is constantly walking through challenges and difficulties. I mean, we've even had mentor relationships where the mom the mom doesn't have anyone to process Yeah. Parenting with. Mhmm. And so they'll call the mentor Yeah.
Speaker 3:At 8 o'clock at night and start processing their day and things that are going on. And the mentor realizes, oh, wow. I I get to process with my spouse every single night about our parenting experience. Yeah. And now this single mom is looking to me to be that for her.
Speaker 3:Do I have capacity to do that? And is that what I signed up for? I don't think most mentors have signed up for that. They I I think most of our mentors love doing that to an extent. If it's
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:A weekly thing, that can get very tiresome. And and so establishing a healthy boundary of, hey. You are leading your household. I am here to play support. I'm here for mentor to for mentoring, and this is what I'm committing to.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Establishing that boundary is very helpful. I'm not a co parent. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well and I'm I I think that's, like, has to actually be said. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And I'm
Speaker 2:not sure if that's something we actually listed out to talk about, but, like, that at the beginning of a mentorship, these are things that should be established and, like, talked about with parent and mentor of, like, this is what I'm here for. This is what you can expect from me. This is what I expect from you, and even of the mentee. Like, it can't really be healthy if it's never been Yeah. Said.
Speaker 3:And isn't that the cool thing about boundaries is that establishing that boundary honors the mentor in their role in the kid's life, but it also honors the role of the mom Yeah. And says this is your responsibility, and I'm not I'm not coming to take your responsibility away from you. I'm coming to support you in your responsibility for your child. And I think that that's powerful.
Speaker 2:And even honors, like, the feelings of a kid who is missing a father figure or a mother figure that's not present, and that those are not shoes anybody can just walk in and replace. Like, there's a true honor around that role, and so it's also a good just thing to be spoken and understood of. Like, I am not coming to be your mom or your dad. I'm not replacing them. That's not what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 3:I I talked to Samari about that on multiple occasions saying, hey, man. You have a dad. Your dad lives a few 1,000 miles away. I will never be him for you, and I wanna encourage your relationship with him. And anytime you get to go visit him, I am excited about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And and and so making that clear to the kid that I ain't your daddy. I think that's that's important. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well and even I'm like, there might be people listening to this podcast who are running organizations that it's there's not a missing parent in the picture. Maybe it's a mentorship that's additional. And so in that case, it's definitely if a parent is confused about why does my kid need a mentor, I've we're both here. It's even more necessary to say, like, I'm not trying to step on your toes.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying you're not doing your job as a dad or you're not doing your job as a mom. This is what I'm here for, and just really clarify that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I have been listening to Greenlights.
Speaker 2:By Matthew
Speaker 3:McConaughey? McConaughey's, like, memoir.
Speaker 2:Does he record it himself? Yes.
Speaker 3:It's him. It's it's awesome. Well, I drove to Fort Worth the other day, so I was like, what am I gonna listen to? I chose Greenlights. And he can I share this?
Speaker 3:Is that copyright infringement? Anyways, Matthew McConaughey was selected to go on this trip to Australia as a foreign exchange student. And he thought he was going to Sydney to hang out with all the Aussies, and he thought it was gonna be, like, your quintessential city, a foreign city kind of experience. And he ended up getting matched with his family that lived in the boonies way away from the beach or civilization, and he just had a very traumatic experience. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Well, the parents that he was staying with, they scheduled a meeting with him and said, Matthew, for the rest of your for the duration of your time here in in Australia
Speaker 2:Oh, dear.
Speaker 3:You will be calling us mommy and daddy. And Matthew McConaughey was like, heck no. I have a mom. I have a dad. And, I mean, he was pretty much like, no.
Speaker 3:And so I I think that was a funny kinda deal that illustrates the same thing of anytime anytime you're in a mentor relationship or you're taking on a relationship with a kid who's maybe away from their parents or is disconnected from a a parent, don't be the Aussie guy that's saying, from now on, you'd be calling me daddy. My Australian accent has changed a few times in this conversation, but I thought that was a funny a funny kind of anecdote.
Speaker 2:Not the best accent, but not the worst. Not the worst.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Alright. What's what's what did you just have something else?
Speaker 2:Well, I did just remember and thought about almost like the there is almost a pride that comes up or is a temptation to come up with being needed on that level. Like, as a mentor, there could be even a temptation of, like I'm just thinking back to whenever I had one girl that I mentored who she had a difficult relationship with her mom. Dad was not in the picture. And whenever I would call her, she would answer the phone by saying, mom? And and to some, like, level, that was very honoring to me.
Speaker 2:Like, wow. And she's also just being a little lighthearted and, like, just it was her way of connecting. But, you know, to some extent, it's also like there's a real temptation there for me to be like to have an a sense of inflated importance in somebody's life. Yeah. Because I'm not her mom.
Speaker 2:And, like, I had a important role in her life for a season, and her mom has an important role in her life, period. And so it was just a good reminder for me to just kind of check my own pride of, like, I am not even close to being able to fill the shoes of who actually has that title in her life.
Speaker 3:That's really good, Beth.
Speaker 2:So that's our point number 1. You are not the replacement painter.
Speaker 3:Been an entire episode. That was awesome.
Speaker 2:Number 2, you are not the solution for everything. Unpack that, Steven.
Speaker 3:Well, since you asked I
Speaker 2:don't know if I asked nicely. Like, that almost was more directed than I asked.
Speaker 3:You want another try at that?
Speaker 2:Could you unpack that for me, please?
Speaker 3:I would love to. Thanks thanks for asking. Solutions are they're trendy. They're sexy. Like, fixing things is, like, one of my favorite things to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so
Speaker 2:You are an Enneagram too, supposedly, allegedly.
Speaker 3:Yes. And so it's very easy for me to approach anything I do in that mentality, the fixing mentality. And so for any issue that surfaces in a mentor relationship, my mind is automatically geared to think about how do I resolve this tension, or how do I solve this problem? So usually, when you solve one problem, another problem inevitably is right behind that problem, and then you solve that one, and then you create one. It's like in a boat where you, like, you solve a hole in one area, but then it the pressure pops out in another spot.
Speaker 3:And all of a sudden, you realize you have you don't have enough fingers to cover all the holes that are coming out. Yeah. I thought
Speaker 2:you were going with the if you teach a man to fish analogy for a second there.
Speaker 3:It was more of if you are in a boat that's sinking,
Speaker 2:Get out of the boat.
Speaker 3:Don't use your fingers. Get get that tape, that crazy tape that they sell you on the Internet that that, like yeah.
Speaker 2:I know what you're talking about. We'll put it in the show notes.
Speaker 3:Yes. Perfect. It's got it's like the ShamWow guy, but, a larger version of him with a beard. Yeah. But so for instance, I had a mentor I was talking to last week.
Speaker 3:His mentee, his tire was flat, and he said, oh, okay. Well, we'll go fix the flat tire. So they go to the store. They get the flat tire fixed. Then the mentor recognizes, wait.
Speaker 3:Do you have a helmet? Am I encouraging you to ride a bike without a helmet? Let's get you a helmet. He gets him a helmet. Well, instantly in this relationship, there has become this transactional, my mentor is mister Moneybags.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And so this mentee's first response to getting the helmet was picking up a Camelback and being like, oh, well, I've always wanted one of these. And so then the mentor was, like, well, crap. Now I Now I
Speaker 2:have to set the boundary.
Speaker 3:And fixing the flat tire was not wrong. Getting the helmet was actually fairly wise. But now I'm establishing this pattern that I am the I'm the solver. I'm the one that can fix all your issues that you have. And so maybe this kid doesn't just have a flat tire, he has some other issue that's that he's facing.
Speaker 3:Maybe his Game Boy kids don't have Game Boys these days, do they?
Speaker 2:Nintendo Switch.
Speaker 3:My phone my phone like, I got a iPhone 6, and Steve Jobs has discontinued the battery after they released the latest phone, which that's a real thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 3:That's super frustrating. But maybe the kids like, well, can you get me a new phone? Mhmm. Oh, well, can you get me the hotspot plan where I can, you know, have Wi Fi at home? Or well, can you well, maybe you could give me an iPad because I'm trying to be an artist.
Speaker 3:And maybe and Yeah. The list just keeps going. And I know most of those examples were financial. Solving problems isn't always a financial deal. It can it can be I
Speaker 2:need a ride to the airport.
Speaker 3:A number of other things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And it's just when you establish yourself in solving every issue that is brought up Mhmm. You are creating an expectation for how to relate with you. So Yeah. If you pay for the first meal, more more than likely, you're going to be expected to pay for the next one unless you say something. That's just how it goes.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, and that's not even just mentorship, but, like, that's even as I've been growing in my role in management, that's a management thing too of just whatever expectations I continue to allow to be set is what is going to be I can expect to continue happening. And so, like, if I fix all of my team members' problems for them instead of teaching them how to problem solve on their own or use this software on their own or whatever it is, I will continue to be the bottleneck of solutions rather than really empowering them to grow beyond just me.
Speaker 3:Some problems you should solve.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Some problems you should say, oh my gosh. What are you gonna do about it? That is that's a great question to push it back to them to make them into the problem solver, them come up with a solution rather than you just being the one with all the solutions. Yeah. The other side of this, you're not the solution for everything.
Speaker 3:I'd love for you to share about the training you just gave our staff and how this would relate.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I just did a training with our staff on our or on our suicide prevention plan. So came up with a plan of how we're going to identify possible risk with our kids who might be dealing with depression and suicide, and what's our role in intervening in that. And part of, I think, what you're getting at is just the the reality of there is there are things that we are responsible for, and there are things that we are not responsible for. And that's a reality that we just have to accept.
Speaker 2:One of the things in the training is that we have a responsibility to act and get help for kids who we see that are at risk, but we actually are not able to provide counseling. That's not our training. That's not our licensing. And so for us to be the solution for all of that would actually be irresponsible because I don't have training, you don't have training, of how to be a counselor walking with a kid through major depression and self harm and things like that. But what we are responsible for, what we are trained to do is outsource and get the help that somebody needs.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. I can do CPR.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 3:But it's only unto waiting for the professional to show up and actually save your life.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And understanding that, for us as mentors, we have a specific responsibility, and it's mainly mainly to be a resource, to be an ear and to be a resource
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And not necessarily just to be the fixer.
Speaker 2:Yep. Yeah. Which is just really important because I and, again, I'm just seeing, like, how pride could play into this too. Like, I was the mentor, and I don't know if you've ever experienced this, Steven, but I know that in ministry, when I worked in college ministry, there was always this, like, kind of ugly inner temptation of, like, wanting to be, like, the person that everybody goes to and, like, the one who was in all the action. And I think that that can really that can be, like, an ego that's stoked as a mentor of like, anytime something goes wrong, like, they call me, and that feels really good to be a person that is called upon.
Speaker 2:But it's also not necessarily sustainable because, like, you may be a resource in this season, but you may not you may get called to move across the country in 6 months. And when you're gone, what have you done to set them up for success in your absence? Because if you are not a parent, then you are not tying yourself to this family for a lifetime necessarily. You don't have that level of commitment. So it's actually more kind and loving to help empower them in your absence, not just be relied upon for your presence.
Speaker 3:That's really good. So are you saying teach a man to fish? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2:I think that is what I'm getting at. Yeah. I don't know how to fish, though. So let's come up with a better analogy. It's more relevant.
Speaker 3:Teach a woman to fish. That's that's the problem is that the patriarchy has coined that idiom. And Yeah. That's true. That's why you don't know how to fish.
Speaker 3:It's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's great. Any other any other thoughts on that one?
Speaker 3:I mean, it would be great to be the solution for everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But then who are you imitating? Who are you trying to be?
Speaker 3:And it well, that that and in a way, you are modeling a poor picture for what this kid should do when he grows up. Because if that's what you do, that's what he's going to do. Yeah. So wouldn't it be cool if the kids that you mentored actually were humble enough to point people in another direction in a a skill or a need that someone brought to them? On on one side, I mean, that is humbling for me to say, hey.
Speaker 3:I could teach you that, but you know what? You know who would be a really good person to teach you that? My my friend over here who runs a business all about that. So he could speak into that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That expands your mentee's exposure to more opportunities and maybe a greater a greater level of I mean, that that's just intentional mentoring where you decenter yourself
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:From being the solution for everything.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Well and, also, like, we hadn't even really thought about or talked about just the spiritual truth of you can't solve everything for every hurting person. Like, there are gonna be on unsolvable thing. There's even in our own lives, there are pains that are not being solved for me and for you, and it it's unfair for me to expect anybody to solve those for me, and that's just not the reality of the thing. But what is reality?
Speaker 2:What would be a great lesson for us to teach our mentees is dependency on God to solve the things that nobody else is gonna be able to solve and provide even things that are like, maybe it's, maybe there is a huge financial need in the family that you're serving that you can't solve that issue for them. But what you can do is walk with them through praying for breakthrough and praying for provision or praying for just their their trust in the lord to grow. Like, there are things that we can do that we are responsible for to lead in those situations. But this particular issue, I just really see as an opportunity to deepen their faith and trust in the lord.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright. So that was number 2. You were not the solution for everything.
Speaker 3:K. Fine.
Speaker 2:Number 3. You can only carry what is yours to carry. You want me to get that one? So this is just getting to the the boundary. I think this is more of an emotional boundary of there are going to be things that are hard, that we're gonna hear from the lives of our mentees.
Speaker 2:There's gonna be this isn't even just in mentoring. This could be you on the phone with your parents or your friends where people are gonna go through hard things in life. And we've gotta be able to love well by having an emotional boundary of just drawing the line of this is something that I'm going to take psychological ownership of and really be up at night worrying and tossing and turning, and I can't even be present with my family right now because my mind is at work still. My mind is at is with my mentee right now. My mind is not on the family that I'm sitting with at the dinner table right now.
Speaker 2:So this is, like, the emotional boundary of knowing when to put something down and knowing what is yours to carry home with you.
Speaker 3:That's hard.
Speaker 2:All boundaries are hard.
Speaker 3:Yes. Because it is a relationship.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, I struggle I struggle with that because, you know, I'm not very good at I think a word for it would be disassociating. It's like Yeah. Or compartmentalizing. Nurse in the ER. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You cannot carry the weight of all the problems being rushed into your world on a night every night basis. Mhmm. You have to let things go. And I've heard from many people in that world that it's an emotional roller coaster to just try and shut it off Yeah. And not not stay warm.
Speaker 3:Because in in the moment, you have to be warm. You have to be understanding. You have to have good bedside manner. But Yeah. Like, the boundary for a nurse is, okay, once you're healed up or you're gone, that sounds very morbid, but that's just the reality of being a nurse in the ER.
Speaker 3:You have to let go Mhmm. And move on to the next patient. And so for a mentor, you could hear something difficult or challenging, and it could be an emotional a spiritual burden. And what do you do with that? Do you just let it pile up, pile up, pile up?
Speaker 3:Where are your moments where you're letting that go in not holding on to the burden that Jesus wants to carry? I think that's the concentric circles. It's like, what's mine to carry and what's God's to carry? What what am I responsible for, and what is God responsible for? I don't know where that concentric circle shifts.
Speaker 3:Do you know? I yeah. I mean I
Speaker 2:mean, I don't I don't think there's a one size fits all answer to that. I and even even with the I think people are just wired differently, and I think some people are more naturally able to compartmentalize and are better equipped for roles like nursing or social work that require some of that. And I think that just requires a lot of self awareness to know coming into something. This is probably gonna be a hard one for me, or this is one that I'm gonna have to really watch for red flags on.
Speaker 3:Can we make this even more simple? Like, I guess, for if you're mentoring a kid that's in 2nd grade, like, you as a mentor, you're thinking about college and, like, how do I get this kid Yeah. Into so and so school? It's kinda like you're you're carrying so much of your design for this kid's future into this relationship when really you just need to play tag. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you've created these designs for this kid's life that aren't even his own. Yeah. And you need to check yourself. Is that is that a similar boundary here of saying that if you if you are extrapolating and have this dream and vision of this kid's future because of your relationship with them, then in a way, you're you don't have a healthy boundary because you've written a narrative that you want this kid to to fall into. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And everything that you do in your mentor relationship is unto this kind of expectation that you set.
Speaker 2:Well, that's true even in just parenting in general. Like, I talked to a parent today who was just wrestling with, like, letting her son walk the path that he's gonna walk and not feeling this pressure, this need to redirect the path to what they think is where he needs to be. And so I think whether it's with your mentee or just parenting in general, that's a that's a reality of there's only so much that we are actually able to control or should even be attempting to control. Like, these are the lord's kids. These are stories that god is directing, not us.
Speaker 3:It's kinda like this image of of the the mentor coming in and taking the burden of the child, but then at the same time, placing their own burden on the child. Oof. Is that a sad image?
Speaker 2:I mean, it is, but
Speaker 3:it's essentially what can happen Yeah. Is that we feel, well, I bought you a bike. Well, I took you to practice. Well, I helped you with your math homework, and my expectation is now you are more relationally connected because of the social things that I I enabled you to be a part of. You excel in the classroom that leads to you getting a a job or excelling into some form of of college or a continued education.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And it's like, in our mind, we've removed a burden and given a direction, but, really, sometimes we can just put another burden on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. This, like, transactional expectation. Yep. That's real.
Speaker 2:Oh,
Speaker 3:so it's not only you can only carry what you use yours to carry, but they can only carry what's theirs to carry.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Mhmm. Well and and then just looping parents in as well. Like, it's just an important, again, clarifier for the mentor and the parents to to understand this is what I can help with. This is what I can't help with.
Speaker 2:And that being okay, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Good. Number 4.
Speaker 2:Last one.
Speaker 3:This has been a great episode, Beth. Even without this one, this is just should
Speaker 2:we should we just end here? This is
Speaker 3:like the marshmallows the the toasted marshmallows on top of a sweet potato.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. I was thinking hot chocolate. So Sorry. That really that's good too. That's good too.
Speaker 3:Yep. Number 4, you have your own life, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:That is okay. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So whatever you are planning to do on Saturday Mhmm. With your family, maybe it was going to the arboretum,
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Or eating a burrito.
Speaker 2:Does that take a whole Saturday?
Speaker 3:I'm just wondering, like Depends on the size. But but maybe you had something scheduled and some opportunity pops up for you to interact with your mentee. You do not have to cancel your plans in order to do it. That's that's fine. You can, but you don't have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That, I think, is I've just heard a lot of stories about how relevant that is of you know, it's I think even something we face with just the the closeness of, like, texting people, calling people. Like, we we have so much access to other people, and it's so instant that there can be just this pressure of, well, they texted me. I've gotta respond. Like, I've they they called me twice.
Speaker 2:Like, I have to call them back today. And I am saying you don't have to because, like, there are going to be set expectations by your organization that you're working with of what you are supposed to do, what the the minimum, but also just the health of some maximums of what communication looks like, what interactions look like. And if you're meeting your expectations, everything else is really up to you of if you pick up that phone or not. But I think it's really easy for Shane to just come in and be like, well, I'm I'm a bad person if I don't take this call. I'm a bad mentor if I don't answer this text, but that's not that's not operating out of love.
Speaker 2:That's operating out of shame, and you will never be the mentor that you you need to be, that you're called to be if you're operating out of shame because that's just not what that's not how the Lord moves. So
Speaker 3:Wow. Man, that's a that's a strong word there, Beth, operating out of shame. I'm a have to shoot 2 on that one because I wanna be the mentor that is available. I wanna be the mentor that will drop everything and and derive some kind of meaning out of Yeah. Like, do you see how important you are to me?
Speaker 3:Or Mhmm. How well, maybe that's what's set on the surface. But underneath is like, do you realize how big of a deal it is that I went out of my way? Yeah. And I want you to acknowledge that.
Speaker 3:And that can lead to resentment Yeah. Where you do that too many times, and you don't feel like it's acknowledged. You just begin to feel like, is every is anything gonna be enough Yeah. In this relationship? And I I know for some of our mentors, they feel a pressure because of, there being complications and trying to do a regularly scheduled meetup that anytime they get a text or they get a communication or an invitation, there's a pressure of, like, I have to take what I can get.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And if this is if this is a bid, I gotta say yes to it. And I get that, and that can be challenging. Yeah. But the real the real issue is not the one offs.
Speaker 3:It's finding a consistent way to be in their life. And so in a way, you may you may perpetuate the thing that is killing you on the inside if you just only do the spontaneous things and not the things that were planned. I remember a mentor. He drew a boundary and he said, hey. Every Thursday at 4, I'm going to be here to pick you up.
Speaker 3:And so I'm not coming on Friday. I'm not coming on Wednesday. Every Thursday at 4, I will be here to pick you up. And whether you're there or or not, we'll we'll determine whether we hang out, and that's just how it's gonna be because that's what I can do. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so that sounds harsh. But in reality, that just established, okay, this is what we're gonna do. Yeah. And I know that that guy's mentor was there at 4 more consistently than before. They met more consistently after he established that than in in the months prior.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well and with all of these boundaries, like, it's just the mentoring that you're doing isn't just when you show up and you're hanging out face to face with your kid, but, like, setting these boundaries is mentoring for them. Exactly what you were saying earlier of just it is teaching them whenever you choose to to maybe you reply to the text and you say, I'm with my family right now, and we're doing no phones while we're having dinner, but I'll connect with you tomorrow. And that is communicating a value to them that hopefully they model for their family in the future of, oh, wow. Like family is really important to my mentor.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And it was so important that he's not gonna answer his phone during family dinner because he wants to really listen to what his kids had to say or whatever it looks like. But you can really actually mentor through just modeling your boundaries.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:So that's why it's important.
Speaker 3:Would you also say that I mean, what did what would Jesus say about us saying, well, I have my own I have my own life, and that's okay. I feel like Jesus would say, your life is not your own. It was bought with a price.
Speaker 2:Well okay. No. But, I mean, all of these things, I think, is one, you can't just listen to this podcast and apply this perfectly to your relationship. You're you should be praying about your mentor relationship, really all your relationships. But you're gonna go through seasons, and you're gonna go through times when maybe you can do the additional things.
Speaker 2:Like, maybe you can buy the bike tire, not the Camel pack, but the bike tire, you know, or maybe you can. You get a text and it's not on a day you aren't really hanging out with your mentee, but you have the capacity and you have the time in your schedule. And so you're gonna say yes to that. But there's also gonna be times when you're gonna have to stick to more of the the the foundational, the minimum, and all of that is something that you're gonna have to be aware of in yourself. And that comes from reflection, that comes from walking in step with the holy spirit, and and knowing, is this a time when I need to spend more time alone in the wilderness praying?
Speaker 2:Is this when I need to pull back in Sabbath more, or is this a time when I'm really cool and I need to go pour out my cup on someone? Yeah. But as far as what Jesus did.
Speaker 3:Don't avoid Jesus, Beth.
Speaker 2:I I think he did both. I mean Yeah. I think there were times when he was in the center of the crowd. There was times when he was just inviting himself over for dinner to, like Zacchaeus might not have been ready for dinner, but Jesus was like, I'm coming to your house today. And then there were times when he was retreating from the crowd, and it could have been seen, like, in our eyes as, oh, what a bad pastor.
Speaker 2:What a bad mentor.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:He these people are seeking him for healing, and he is the only solution for them for healing. And he still is retreating to be alone and to spend time with his father, and that can be hard for us to reconcile of how is that loving. But if that's the model that he set of in order to love well, you have to take time for yourself, then that's the model we have to follow. I mean, period.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, it it also seems like Jesus had a plan, and so it it wasn't like an excuse to get out of meeting the the crowd's demands. He was just like, I'm gonna I had a meeting scheduled with the father out out on that mountain over there, and I have a plan. And and maybe that level of intentionality includes, like, planning is in itself a boundary. If you made plans with your family, that's a healthy boundary for you to say, no.
Speaker 3:I already have plans. And just plans are very healthy.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Like, even just for the structure that a child needs, a child needs a a schedule, a plan. And and so you modeling what that looks like, even by just you, daddy o, with your little family over there, having a plan for your Saturday, that's a great thing
Speaker 2:to
Speaker 3:be modeling for the kid that you're mentoring, even if it means he doesn't get to hang out with you because of it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I don't
Speaker 3:know if Jesus kept the calendar, but
Speaker 2:I don't know either. I mean, if you're a nomad, is that gonna make the satchel, like, if you're having to carry all your belongings? Do you think, like, Matthew was keeping up with his agenda for him?
Speaker 3:Or would Jesus just look at the sun and be like
Speaker 2:It is time.
Speaker 3:Like, even before you were made sun anew this moment. I yeah.
Speaker 2:That sounds right.
Speaker 3:That's pretty crazy to think about.
Speaker 2:Alright.
Speaker 3:Oh, Jesus. We love you. Alright. Wrap wrap this episode up, Beth.
Speaker 2:Alright. So this started our conversation on boundaries, which is a bigger conversation than I think we even realized.
Speaker 3:Anticipated. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes. As we often do. This episode, we were talking about healthy boundaries. What are some of the things that are required for healthy boundaries? And we narrowed it down to 4.
Speaker 2:You are not a replacement parent. You are not the solution for everything. You can only carry what is yours to carry, and you have your own life, and that's okay. And you can mentor. In conclusion, this is our closing guideline for you to just consider with your mentorship.
Speaker 2:Mentorship is not save your ship. You can't be their answer to everything, but you can be a crucial support system as you empower them to problem solve and persevere on their own.
Speaker 3:Amen. Amen. We we will continue the boundaries series. This is the episode that is the beginning. This is the first episode of the boundary series.
Speaker 3:The next one will be signs you have a boundary issue. Mhmm. So if you're that mentor that's, like, feeling it
Speaker 2:We've all been there.
Speaker 3:Next week. Yep. We're gonna talk about, in a couple weeks, your role in boundary setting as the mentor. Laying down the law. And then also as a as a to finish the circle, to complete the circle of boundaries, we wanna have the conversation about when a mentorship mentor relationship should end.
Speaker 3:And so we're gonna talk about ending a relationship well and closing closing that relationship with help. How does that sound, Beth?
Speaker 2:Sounds great.
Speaker 3:So one whole month with Beth and Steven. I hope you're ready for it. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode or are horrible at boundaries and just want everyone to know, share this episode on your social media and confess.
Speaker 2:Or if you just think boundaries are really important.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That too. More than anything, want you to know this. You can mentor.