Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In the Catapult Network’s Supercharging Innovation podcast, knowledge experts and leaders from the Catapult Network talk with some of the UK’s top industrial and academic leaders and parliamentarians to get their views on science, innovation and technology. Together, they are putting UK innovation under the spotlight and exploring the role of Government, businesses, the research community, private investors, and other innovative organisations in strengthening the economy through collaboration. Welcome to the Catapult Network’s Supercharging Innovation Podcast, subscribe now.
The Innovate UK Catapult Network provides a unique combination of cutting-edge R&D facilities and world-class technical expertise to support UK business innovation. Catapults are a critical element of Innovate UK’s portfolio of products and services, where the application of research is accelerated, and where new technologies are further developed, scaled up and realised. The Catapult Network is made up of nine world-leading technology and innovation centres with more than 65 national locations.
Hello, and welcome to the second series of Catapult Network's Supercharging Innovation podcast. I'm Catherine Bennett, CEO of the High Value Manufacturing Catapult and this year's chair of the Catapult Network. Our network is made up of world leading technology and innovation centers established and powered by Innovate UK. This series explores how the UK must break down barriers to solve national and global challenges and how this can be realized through the power of science, innovation, and technology. I'll pass you over to our expert panel to find out what's captured our attention this week.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Katherine. That was great, and what a super introduction. My name's Kathy Bowden. I'm the skills manager at the satellite applications catapult. And today, I'm delighted to be joined by my catapult colleagues, doctor Martin Main, who's chief scientific officer at the Medicines Discovery Catapult, and Priya Goa, who's a non executive director at The Digital Catapult.
Kathie Bowden:Our special guest today is Debbie Johnson, head of innovation, talent and skills at innovate UK. Today, as part of the supercharging innovation podcast series, we're going to be discussing how we can break down barriers to shape future skills. Everybody is talking about the issues of recruitment, How we build those pipelines of the right skills that are going to help us. The media's full of shortages, particularly in STEM subjects. And we know that the problems widespread.
Kathie Bowden:It doesn't really seem to matter which sector you're talking about. All of us have problems. It affects the entire supply chain and the pipeline of people coming through who are candidates for our workforce. One way or another, it has a huge knock on effect, particularly for ourselves, but also with the pipeline coming through and ensuring that our training community, the teachers themselves are in short supply. And that means that all of us need to be thinking more innovatively about how we can support the pipeline and bring people through.
Kathie Bowden:It affects our workforce so much in so many ways. We need to collect the data at all stages of the pipeline to ensure that we are doing what we can, where we can, and make sure that we can capitalise on so much of what we do. We live in exciting worlds. We work in exciting places. And the more that we can do to share that excitement, the better things will be as we go forward.
Kathie Bowden:So with that, let's get to the first question. What's the role of science, innovation, and technology in bridging the skills shortage? And for this question, I start with Martin. Perhaps you'd like to kick off.
Martin Main:So I'm Martin Maine. So I work at the Medicines Discovery Catapult. We work with innovators across the Medicines Discovery Sector, helping them to shape and deliver their projects and and move the discipline forward. Drug discovery is a really highly multidisciplinary subject. So it's really critical to deliver work in this area that we have access to a wide range of skills.
Martin Main:Clearly, one solution to that will be to have a workforce that's got a range of different skills and the flexibility to move between different types of activity. But also one thing which is really critical deliver a drug discovery project, probably far more than one. Certainly, deliver a drug discovery project, probably far more than 1, certainly 1 individual or 1 small organization could achieve. So the example I'd like to share is around really a new emerging modality for drug discovery, which is around RNA therapeutics. I think everyone on this call will be familiar with the Pfizer and COVID vaccines, which were an RNA therapeutic, which is encapsulated in a drug delivery formulation.
Martin Main:So this combination of an active ingredient and a and a drug delivery system is really important with this type of medicine transport the RNA therapeutic and get it to its site of action in a stable way. But what this does mean is there's many, many different considerations when creating a drug. So material science and innovation in that space is really important in terms of developing a drug delivery system, formulation, manufacturing and also biological characterization of these medicines. So many different skill sets need to be brought to bear, but but quite a diverse set of skills. In the last, year or so, we've worked in very close partnership with CPI, which is another part of the Catapult network, along with 3 academic centers to actually address the challenge of developing these new types of medicines, and we've collaborated around what we call the intracellular drug delivery center.
Martin Main:So in this collaboration, each different organization brings something very different but very complementary to the collaboration. 1 of our partners brings expertise in formulation. We very much focus on the characterisation of medicines. Another partner looks at, safety considerations. But what we find is by working in this way, we can bring together a very diverse set of skills around a common problem.
Martin Main:And I think, you know, equally important, I think the project team members really enjoy this way of working. We all learn a lot from each other. We operate as a very tightly knit team but each of us has our home organization where we've got more specialism in the different skill sets. In conclusion, I think just like to make the case for collaboration. So certainly we do need to develop those skills in individual people, but I think we could also be greater in the sum of our individual parts if we collaborate very effectively across the sector as well.
Kathie Bowden:Martin, thank you. I think that's a hugely important point. Could I hand over to Priya?
Priya Guha:Absolutely. Thank you. And just start, frankly, by agreeing with what Martin said. Of course, collaboration is absolutely fundamental to making this work. To recap, I'm actually a non executive director at the Digital Catapults and have lots of other roles across the technology and innovation ecosystem.
Priya Guha:So as you might imagine, Kathy, lots of strong views on the subject of how technology, science, and innovation can make a difference in bridging the skill shortage. The reality is we're not gonna bridge the skill shortage if we don't have the right engagement from the technology, sector in making the change that we need to make to support the workforce of the future. That is the case across the board. But in the case of the work that I've seen in my role at Digital Catapult, it's absolutely fundamental. A great example that we've worked on at the Digital Catapult is the work around advanced media production studios that Digital Catapult have done.
Priya Guha:The reality is we don't yet have a full range of skills and experiences in the UK to support this new industry of advanced media production. And so the digital catapult recognizes it needs to play a role in supporting this new talent, this emerging talent to come through in this space. So in the case of the digital catapult, we've established partnerships with Goldsmiths in the University of London, Gateshead College, ScreenSkills, and other organizations to really try and address the skills shortage in the sector and make sure that the talent that is coming through the sector has access to the right types of facilities they need to be able to learn and get the experience. So really, really important area, and so glad you brought it up, Kathy.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks very much, Priya. And, Debbie, your insight from an innovate perspective?
Debbie Johnson:Yes. I can't support the idea that we need to talk more enough, and I'm really glad today we've heard the example of the advanced media production therapeutics because they're both examples which we're currently using for the workforce for SightingHub. The reason it's essential that we think about it differently is, as well as within Science Innovation Technology, we experience skill shortages. And as Martin has pointed out, how we can do more around interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary through our education system is integral to that. But I think we also have to accept that the fantastic innovation that we have in the UK creates the skill shortages of the future.
Debbie Johnson:So that's something where we're really uniquely positioned in terms of not only are we responding to our own workforce needs, but the magic that the catapults are doing are in essence then affecting other businesses in creating those skill shortages. And so that's where the work that the catapult network has initiated through the workforce for SightingHub really does come to bear in terms of how do we really make a difference, and, potentially, it will bridge skill shortages. But in the longer term, it's about saying at the point that we're discovering all this amazing change that we can create in our science system, how does that really affect the workforce? And how do we then start talking about our education and skills system? Because the issue that we've had historically in the UK is businesses consistently say that they can't access the people they want from our education and skill system.
Debbie Johnson:And that's because we only talk to businesses at the point where they need people rather than saying, what's your business about, and what changes are you working on now that are gonna affect that workforce of the future? So I think for me, it is about bringing together education, technology, and business, and saying, what are we working on, and how do we want to see our skill system respond to that?
Kathie Bowden:Debbie, I'm really glad you brought up that point of the workforce foresighting hub because it, to me, the most important thing we need to be developing now is a rationale and a protocol for robustly looking at our people supply chain and making sure that we're clearly understanding what the delta is between what is being delivered today and what we're gonna need in 5 to 10 years time. And without that, we're not moving forward. And, I see that as being hugely important. Brilliant point. Thank you very much.
Kathie Bowden:So if we move on to our second question, Priya, I'm gonna put you in the hot seat first. Who is responsible for harnessing and shaping those future skills in the UK? How do we strive towards common talent and skills goals?
Priya Guha:So I think the quick answer to that question, Cathy, is literally that everybody has a responsibility here. There's a role for government. There's a role for business. There's a role for academia. There's a role for education at the K-twelve level as well.
Priya Guha:There really is an obligation for everybody to to play their own part in making a difference to how the skills agenda shapes up for the future and playing their own parts in delivering the solution to that. That includes, of course, the Catapult network. And it's really, really important that the Catapult network is thinking about this as it thinks about the industries of the future and the skills that are going to be needed to support that industry in the future, irrespective of which Catapult we're talking about. In the case of the digital catapult, one of the ways that we really think about how to be central to that conversation around responsibility and how you shape future talent is around the industry collaborations. We've had almost 3,000 company engagements since 2018 18 at the Digital Catapult.
Priya Guha:And in all of those company engagements, we're getting feedback from the companies about the skills they think they'll need, but also making sure that through the collaborative conversations we're having with them, we're also able to play a role in supporting the development and cultivation of skills that align with the evolving industrial and economic landscape that we're going to see in the future.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Priya. I love that. You know, bringing back it's again collaboration. It's bringing everybody together. And like you, I completely agree that it's it's everybody's responsibility.
Kathie Bowden:We can't no no bit of it can do it alone. And certainly we can't rely on on government per se, or industry, or even education to do it on their own. So huge. Debbie, over to you.
Debbie Johnson:Yeah. I would, again, completely prescribe to this. I think we have strength in our individual responsibilities. I think that we have to look to each other more, but we also then need to find that common ground. I would love to think that people consistently talk to each other because the difference is is that, and I'm gonna use the government example here, the Department For Education in England have a really unique role to play, and it's a really important role to play.
Debbie Johnson:Equally, decent have a really important role to play. If I then started to think, well, should decent start really thinking about our education curriculum? No. Let's play to our strengths here, but let's make sure that actually we're understanding what we're investing in in the UK in terms of our favored technologies, which technologies do we see as being most important to the UK and changing how the economy and our society works, and then how does that affect our education system? I think because we constantly see things as somebody else's responsibility, everything falls into this gray space.
Debbie Johnson:But actually, what we have now, and it's been recognized consistently over the things that I'm gonna say have been created or confirmed within the UK. So we have proper jewels, don't we? We have our amazing universities. We now have institutes of technology really focused on technology focused education. We've got the catapult centers.
Debbie Johnson:When you think about the richness of the conversations that can happen, we have everything we need, I think, but what we do need to do is play to each other's strengths, respect each other's strengths, and come together to create those dialogues that move us forward. We do see that happening. Like, it's so exciting to see the conversations that are now happening. As I've said, within technical education, within sort of really thinking about how we play across the UK, really thinking about where this devolved responsibilities, actually, the model of foresighting works wherever you are. Yes.
Debbie Johnson:You'll play to your respective education system, but, actually, these are models that can be lent and borrowed and customized. And I think the more we share, the more progress we'll make.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Debbie. And Martin, any additions? Yeah.
Martin Main:I think absolutely. If we're if we're gonna achieve the government's aim of the UK becoming a science and technology superpower, that we do need that strong pipeline of talent. Very much agree with Priya and Debbie that there's a role for all of us in achieving that aim. So at NDC, we're we're trying to address this at a couple of different stages at the moment. So we've actually been starting very early engaging with schoolchildren between years 7 to 11.
Martin Main:This is a piece of work we've done partnered with the Cheshire and Warrington Local Enterprise Partnership on a school engagement programme. So this is both visiting schools, but also releasing a video that could be shared more widely across schools. And we've really enjoyed doing that and found that really fulfilling. We think we can really help in a number of ways in terms of nurturing interest and talent in science from that very early stage. And the reason we chose this age group is to try and get the message across to children before they start making career choices.
Martin Main:We've done a number of different things with the children, but one of the biggest things we try to do is tackle preconceptions. Really interesting feedback from the children. Quite entertaining as well. But also, I think really importantly, trying to open up the range of different careers there are in science. It's not just sitting at a lab doing lab experiments.
Martin Main:There's a huge range of different roles, which we've got MDC and and across the different catapults as well. That's looking early, trying to energize and infuse the children as they make their career choices. I think the other area we've done quite a lot, and I think the country has made a lot of progress in this space, is around supporting talent as it progresses through education, through academia. So we've been quite active actually in hosting PhD interns. These are typically students in their 2nd or 3rd year of their PhD studies.
Martin Main:Some really good doctoral training programs now running in the UK, which actually have the funding to send students out for industrial placements. So we've now hosted, I think, around 10 interns across the last few years. Now we've found that a really great thing to do. I think for the students, they get experience of working in industry and exposure to an industrial R and D. But for ourselves as a catapult, it brings really smart people into the catapult.
Martin Main:It helps enhance our capacity to carry out novel science, bringing these early career professionals through the catapult through the lab for a few months with examples of things we're doing. But I think, you know, right across the different age group and different stages of people's careers, we can really make a difference by developing that talent.
Priya Guha:Well, I was just gonna come in, if I may, Kathy, with a compliment to what Martin just said actually because that point about thinking about the full career journey is so vital. And I think from where the catapult sits, you know, one of the key roles we can play in addition to what Martin just talked through is actually at the early career or indeed apprenticeship stage because those are really important segments of the population that we need to encourage into the sort of science and technology innovation space, give them the skills space to then build a career in that sector and go on to exciting things whether, you know, within our organizations or frankly elsewhere. And I think just from a digital passport perspective, we found 2 really exciting things to get involved with in this area. 1 is around the apprenticeship schemes run by organizations like Ada College, where we have an apprenticeship scheme supported by Ada College to bring people through technology apprenticeships at the cathodes. And then the other thing that I wanted to flag, which I think is also a great scheme to get involved with, is, something called the 5% club.
Priya Guha:I don't know if anyone's heard of it, but it's really around, supporting early career professionals and giving them the opportunity to really build an early stage career in the technology space. So those are just 2 things I think are really important additions to what Martin was just talking about for a full career journey.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Priya. And I think from my experience, what I've also seen, I've been lucky enough to work very closely with the UK Space Agency. Well, I worked for them for a while before I came to the Catapult. And we had a very strong collaboration with STEM Learning, with the development of resources that have ensured that we're influencing students from as early as key stage 1 all the way through into the workplace. So that's been great.
Kathie Bowden:We just need to keep doing it. And the number of people that I've seen, you know, the skills has suddenly become the topic that everybody talks about. Well, about time. Because I've been working in this area for 10 years and there used to be 2 of us at a meeting. And now there are 100 of us going, this is what we should be doing.
Kathie Bowden:And we are doing it because we're all collaborating and bringing things together. So I do think it's hugely important and very exciting and increasingly also with the space placements we do, we're now working with a space agency. So next year, we'll be delivering on their behalf a further 120 placement opportunities for industry across the sector, which is really exciting. Hard work, but it's a great way of getting young people into the sector. So if we move on to the next question, I'm gonna kick off with Debbie this time.
Kathie Bowden:Debbie, we call the UK a diverse and multi skilled nation. There's no question about that. But what inherent biases do you think we need to eliminate to really take advantage of our unique workflows?
Debbie Johnson:So I think this is a really complex question, obviously, because of the multitude of places where biases can occur. And Martin's given a really good example of how scientists are perceived, and STEM learning is doing a fantastic job in really working with schools and colleges to help people understand that we don't need to limit ourselves by our perceptions of what occupations and sectors look like to us. And I think there's something really important that we do need to do within our education and skill system to help see the multitude of opportunities. But I also think as businesses, as the Catapult network, there's also things that we need to challenge ourselves on. I think that for me, what we constantly see is, I'm gonna call it the recruiting your own image.
Debbie Johnson:I think if I was to say what one thing could we do is as individuals to take away, I think it's considering our own
Kathie Bowden:that's what I want to see in other people. So one of the
Debbie Johnson:things since moving to innovate That's what I want to see in other people. So one of the things since moving to Innovate UK, and I would say before this, I worked in the construction sector. And if you can imagine the difference in career pathways and in education levels. One of the things I've noticed is is a lot of roles have a requirement for PhD, and I find that really challenging. There are absolutely roles without a PhD, I can see why you can't do them.
Debbie Johnson:But there are so many people that when you talk about, right, how do we build this workforce of the future? How do we really think about where these people are going to come from? The immediate is, oh, well, they'll all need to have a PhD, and you're sat there saying, let's talk about flexible if it's about having a level a education attainment, let's talk about that, but why is it always a particular pathway? If I were to think about given the complexities that do exist and given the great things that are already going on across the UK to help raise people's aspirations, and help people understand that these opportunities can be available to them. I think the next thing we need to do is make sure that those businesses are welcoming and inclusive in their own right.
Debbie Johnson:So for me, I think it's about saying, what are we doing about we've talked about it today. What are we doing about placements? How can we introduce new thinking into the way our businesses operate? Are we committed to the 5% club? What's our graduate recruitment like?
Debbie Johnson:What's our apprenticeship recruitment like? Are we looking at all the different types of talent we can welcome into our business? And are we attracting and retaining them? And I think that was the important thing I learned in the construction sector. And I'm beginning to hear murmurs of it in some occupations, which is we did our best, and the construction sector continues to do amazing job to demonstrate that it can be inclusive.
Debbie Johnson:But the minute somebody has a bad experience in that workforce, they could have done a 4 year apprenticeship. If they go and have a bad experience, they will leave that sector. So we also have to think about how we retain people. So I think there's so much we can do, but I think we should each be targeting ourselves as to what can we do differently.
Kathie Bowden:Really good points. And interesting on that one, we've with Space Placements in Industry this year, we are utilizing and applying blind recruitment platform for all of the companies across the sector who are using the programme. Which means that they're getting a soft trial of how it works, which hopefully will be positive experience. My fingers are well and truly crossed. Martin.
Martin Main:So maybe just like to say a few words about geographical or or regional bias. Was a slightly different aspect. So I think where we were very much focused on early stage R and D, I think there is a regional bias towards the southeast of England is where a significant number of early stage businesses are emerging from the southeast of England. Just to get a few comments around that, really. So I think practically what we've done at MedAssistica for a catapult is we've we've actually chosen a region away from the southeast.
Martin Main:We're based in the northwest of England in Cheshire at Oldley Park in a life science innovation hub. But what we found practically is even though we're based in northwest, which is geographically a few miles away from many of our constituents, we can work with companies across the whole of the UK and we've got active projects in Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England. But then maybe just to say a few words about post COVID working both in a positive and negative. I'm sure what we're all finding is that online meeting platforms have become so embedded today, Teams, Zoom, etcetera, in day to day work in that physical location is much less of a barrier than it used to be. And I think we're all working very effectively in that world.
Martin Main:I think there is a risk of working in that way in that because we're having less physical interaction, you know, or we're gonna lose a sense of community, shared purpose in each of our sectors. So I think there are things we need to work really hard to do. So where there are key industry conferences in the UK, we tried to really kinda do a lot of pre work, attending those meetings, making those connections. We also do state of the nation opinion pieces annually. We run webinar series.
Martin Main:So I think we do need to put the work in to making sure we stay connected now. We're in this slightly more remote working world. So just a few few thoughts there around the regional bias.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Martin. Good points. Priya?
Priya Guha:I think what both Martin and Debbie have talked to is actually really the wide range of factors that we need to think about here. And the reality is this isn't a zero sum game. We can't just focus on one one day and then focus on the other the next. We need to think about the whole range of inherent biases that are there in the British economy, in the British society to then actually look at where the opportunities are. I've worked a lot over my whole career on the area of gender bias and also bias on the basis of minority status.
Priya Guha:And the reality is, is that these are still really all pervasive areas. The digital catapult itself has done some research on this. They released a report in 2023 last year on called the diverse founders in advanced digital technology, which really looked at sort of what factors affected the ability of diverse founders to scale their businesses. And unsurprisingly, all diversity metrics, all of the things we've talked about so far, really made a difference in their ability to get finance and therefore scale their businesses. This is particularly relevant in the context of gender bias for funding.
Priya Guha:What we found is that in 2022, all male founded companies with a focus on distributed systems technologies like blockchain, they secured a staggering 93.2% of all equity investment related to that technology. So that's a really stark representation of how that gender bias is still playing through. There's 2 things, though, that I wanted to pull out in relation to this. I think, 1, we need to think about how data can really play a role. We can't do much about this area of diversity and lack of representation if we don't have the data to back it up.
Priya Guha:And so all of us in the Catapult network really need to think about sort of how are we tracking data relating to underrepresentation and the impact that has on the sector, on the research and innovation, on the company's ability to scale. But also, how can we play a role to showcase the best of the best, irrespective of where they come from? And sometimes this is about shining a spotlight on underrepresented groups, and the Digital Catapults had an amazing program called FutureScope Black Founders, which is really giving black founders the opportunity to get the spotlight shone on them and increase their ability to get equity funding from the private sector as a result. The key point, though, that I wanted to end on in relation to this, Kathy, is the why. We often spend rightly a lot of time going, you know, this is important.
Priya Guha:We need to do it and therefore looking at what interventions we can make. But we should never forget why this matters. And if we look at a science and technology ecosystem in the UK, we will neither reap the economic benefits of those technologies nor harness the full scale of potential solutions out there if we're not having a diverse workforce at the table. And that's absolutely fundamental to our collective success in this space.
Kathie Bowden:Priya, I think what you've just said about the power of that diverse ecosystem driving innovation is absolutely imperative. I mean, there's so much evidence for that. To me, it's an absolute no brainer. We cannot dismiss any portions of the workforce without losing elements of that. I think you're absolutely right about gathering evidence In 2021, I think it was, we, across the space sector, we ran a census, collected data on, on various protected characteristics across the workforce, which has given us something that we can now measure ourselves against in ways that we didn't have before.
Kathie Bowden:And I think, you know, continuing that, measuring ourselves, doing the monitoring and evaluation that we're constantly being exhorted to do is absolutely imperative. And I also love the point you made about enabling more women in this case, or, or, or minority ethnic communities, to be able to access the funding to drive forward their businesses. I've been exposed just recently through a neighbor of mine to a new organization that's driving forward top level support for CEOs in software companies, particularly in startups. And I think that kind of thing is so important, making sure that that ecosystem So last question, I think. What is the one single technological breakthrough or policy initiative that you believe will help the UK to shape future skills?
Kathie Bowden:Martin, you can kick off first.
Martin Main:So I think in the medicines discovery sector, and I suspect in all of our different sectors, There's a huge change ongoing at the moment in terms of an enormous increase in the availability of data related to drug discovery. And the real challenge is how we use this data to make drug discovery more predictive and more successful. So I think the win there is gonna be having the technologies and having the skills to really unlock this data and and make it work for us. To give you some examples in our sector, there's been a huge increase in availability of consented personal health data and samples in terms of patient records, really huge initiatives from the UK Biobank, Genomics England, Our Future Health, trying to collect physical specimens, for example, blood samples, but also doing questionnaires, etcetera. There's new technologies available to generate incredibly rich data from human samples.
Martin Main:And there's also the advent of digital biomarkers where we're using digital technologies to measure indicators of of biology, just heart rate monitoring, glucose sensing, etcetera, etcetera. So we got this vast, vast uplift in data available in our space. So that it's what do we do without data? How do we get value from that? So I think for me without having an absolutely crystal clear outcome, the skills we need clearly skills in data science, in AI, and that broader theme are gonna be incredibly important to to really move the dial in this space.
Martin Main:It's a really exciting time, but I think it will be a different set of skills. And I think this area will evolve incredibly rapidly in the next few years as well. So it's actually gonna be having the skills, but the mindset to continually evolve those skills as the area moves forward.
Priya Guha:Thanks, Martin. Priya? What Artyom was just talking about there is about the sort of horizontal technological innovations that are really going to impact our world. Talked about AI. I think it's really, really important to focus on those horizontal areas because if we crack that from a skills perspective, we can then look at the application of those technologies in lots of different verticals.
Priya Guha:Obviously, you know, Martin's talking about it from a sort of medicines discovery perspective, but the reality is all of the areas he described could be equally applicable for the world of studio production, as I was talking about earlier, or our ability to make differences in the construction sector, which Debbie was talking about earlier in the program. So I think it's really, really important to think about those horizontal skills. And the other area that I think is going to be fundamental to the future, and when I'm talking about the future, this is probably in the sort of decade, hence, time frame, is quantum. Because once we're able to really get a skills base in the UK that can support the quantum industry of the future, we're then at the forefront of being able to reap the benefits of this sector, which is likely to be somewhere between £20,035,000,000,000 sector by 2027. That's the UKRI estimate.
Priya Guha:So if we can get that right in the UK, we're whole positioned to really reap all the benefits of a new innovation like quantum computing.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Priya. I can see a nice building block here. Debbie, go over to you.
Debbie Johnson:I pondered this question for a while because it was, there are so many exciting technologies, and it's and there are so many things we can harness in the UK. I ended up coming back to the policy initiative of, for me at the moment, the National Science and Technology Council, because again, harnessing those breakthrough technologies. But again, it takes us back to our earlier conversation. For me, the difference that we're seeing at the moment with NSTC is the ability to create conversations. It can be really frustrating at times working with government departments who are so frantically busy, all trying to strive to absolute things that UK needs, but failing to talk to each other, and therefore missing key opportunities to take key advantage of things that really can help build the workforce in a faster way to realize our technology goals.
Debbie Johnson:The NSTC now has delivery plans both associated with those technologies, including quantum and engineering biology, but also about STEM skills. So it's the first time we're seeing all of, as Priya mentioned, these horizontals and verticals really coming together. And I'll be frank, I don't care what it's called. What I care about is the fact we continue to have conversations like today, whether the across the Catapult network, across businesses, with government, any mechanism, policy initiative that can help that happen, I think will only move us forward to making sure that we're realizing the true benefits of those technologies that we want to see embedded in the UK.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks, Debbie. And I think that rales things off pretty effectively. You know, the the point you made, Priya, about those those horizontals, the building blocks that Martin talked about and and Debbie, you've also highlighted. They, to me, also highlight the the absolute importance of making sure that we are supporting the entire pipeline. We blithely talk about supporting key stage 2, 1 up to wherever.
Kathie Bowden:But more fundamental than that is making sure that we have the teachers with the right skills and the inspiration in their bones and DNA that will make sure that those young people are there for us to nurture and mould and take to the next level. Because at the moment we've got a problem with that. Priya, please.
Priya Guha:No. I was just going to come in if I may, Cathy, and make a little plug for a charity that I'm a trustee of called Tech She Can. And the role of that charity is really to do exactly what you talked about, help teachers both prepare and and deliver lessons that showcase the breadth of the opportunity technology can bring, but also give that level of inspiration, particularly for older children, to realise that there's a place for them in the sector. So Tech She Can is a great charity doing some really important work in this space.
Kathie Bowden:Thanks. And I think that's really smart, Priya, getting stuck into those, all those extra, if you like, extracurricular activities that do inspire. But I can't get entirely away from the problem that we have. When we looked at the census, the statistics for the number of women coming into the sector are very well aligned with the number of girls doing physics a level. So until we affect that level, we're not gonna make a huge impact further up the chain.
Kathie Bowden:We can't ignore any one bit of it. We've got to get stuck into all of it. Has anybody else got any final comments that they'd like to make?
Martin Main:Maybe just to reiterate on on the horizontals. I really like the way Ria described that. And I think we have had actually just kicked off some work to cross catapult network, actually looking at how each of the catapults are positioning AI and quantum in our sectors, then how can we work together as a cross catapult network to actually move the area forward. So I think just a really great real life example that we're just kicking off now where we're saying there are all these commonalities of technology which will influence right across all our different sectors. And how do we work together to move them forward?
Kathie Bowden:Yeah. I I think that's a really good point, Martin, because actually, as long as people come to the bottom with the right building blocks, They can go wherever they want to go. But we also need to make sure that we're making our sectors as visible as they can be. And I particularly think medicines have had an incredible- I would hope- uplift because of the past few years. And space tends to have that 'gewizz wow' pizzazz that comes from being space.
Kathie Bowden:And I often say that there are things that inspire kids. One of them's space and the other's dinosaurs. And dinosaurs are dead, so, you know, let's stick with space. But even talking to school kids tomorrow, I can safely say that probably a huge proportion of them would have no idea that there'd been a big launch today. The role of the media is so different from when we were students than it is for them.
Kathie Bowden:On which note, I suspect we should wrap up. I'd like to extend a huge thank you to all 3 of you. You've been absolutely stellar. The discussion's been enlightening. It's been fascinating.
Kathie Bowden:We've explored various ways in which we can begin to break down those barriers that we all see. I'm sure this conversation will continue because by no stretch of the imagination, are we there yet. You've been listening to the Catapult Network Supercharging Innovation podcast. Thank you for listening.
Katherine Bennett:I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Catapult Network Supercharging Innovation podcast, powered by Innovate UK, available wherever you get your podcasts. If, after listening to this episode, you have questions, suggestions, or simply want to tell us your thoughts, get in touch with us via our website, catapult.org dotuk, our social media channels, or via your podcast app. Help us put UK innovation under the spotlight.