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You've heard the book publishing podcasts that give you tips for selling a lot of books and the ones that only interview world-famous authors. Now it's time for a book publishing show that reveals what actually goes on behind the cover.
Hosted by New York Times bestselling author Anna David, Behind the Book Cover features interviews with traditionally published authors, independently published entrepreneurs who have used their books too seven figures to their bottom line to build their businesses and more.
Anna David has had books published by HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster and is the founder of Legacy Launch Pad, David is the founder of Legacy Launch Pad Publishing, a boutique, founder-led hybrid book publisher that helps entrepreneurs turn expertise into authority-building books. In other words, she knows both sides—and isn't afraid to share it.
Come find out what traditional publishers don't want you to know.
[00:00:00] The show where?
So today my guest is Justin Breen, a one of a kind thinker. You shall soon find that out. He's the co-founder and CEO of the Epic Fit Network, which was recently named one of the top five Masterminds on the planet by business Traveler USA magazine. He has written. Several books and his next book, epic Journey will feature an intro from Dr.
Deepak Chopra. In this episode, we talk about how this new book, which hasn't even come out yet, has massively transformed his life. I mean, we're talking a full life overhaul, but we also talk about his previous books and how he went in charging $500 and, uh. After the book was [00:01:00] able to charge $30,000 for his services, how do you make a transformation that big?
Well, that is what Justin Breen is going to tell you. So now I give you Justin Breen. So Justin, we are talking about books, plural. Uh, but before we get into that, update me on your life because radical transformation since we last spoke. I think, uh, one, it's, I'm grateful to be here. Uh, two, you know, life is about, um, glitches and then evolution and figuring things out.
Um, I'm a big fan of Carl Young and he talked about liminal space. So, uh, liminal spaces like you're alive, but you're in between two life. So that's where I, I'd say I am right now. Um. Recently amicably divorced. Uh, not sure where I'm going to live next. Um, my kids want me to, uh, want me to stay close to them, um, and then [00:02:00] multiple companies on the horizon.
And then next book is, uh, coming out as well. So, and it's being turned into a, a documentary. I saw that. A lot of things, lots, lots going on. Am I wrong to say that? The book, this new book was sort of the impetus for all these changes. A hundred percent. Yeah. Uh, for anyone that has heard of and or, uh, read The Alchemist or The Little Prince, I would describe this book, which, uh, will be called Epic Journey.
I would describe it as those books, but real, um, I will not even look at the manuscript. It's too painful for me to look at it. Um, but. It is essentially a complete ego death, and I'm very grateful for it because I wouldn't be where I'm at now without it. And the other thing I'll say about it is, uh, since writing the manuscript, which was like, I would say March to [00:03:00] May of 2024, um, it's, it's been a really interesting journey about.
What's really going on in society and doing a deep dive into that. And I know, uh, it will help a lot of people. And even the people that have read the manuscript, it's been really interesting 'cause a couple people have gotten tattoos already. Like, what does that mean? Who, who got tattoos? And what did the tattoos say?
Yeah, so both the people that got tattoos are a plus sign and an equal sign, and one of the chapters in the book is about finding plus two individuals. Mm. And then I did like the history about what plus and two actually mean. The two actually started as an equal sign symbol and what the book's about is, um.
Essentially the rise of the divine feminine in that, uh, the world is being ruined by masculine ego regardless of whether it's a man or [00:04:00] not. And the plus and equal sign represent, uh, the merging of divine, masculine and feminine, which I never thought I'd be writing a book about that. But, uh, here we are.
And, uh, so people have been so impacted by the manuscript that they're like, oh, that it's a really good tattoo to get. Eventually I'll get one as well. Um, just not sure when I'm gonna do it. And so it was writing. Do you, do you believe you channeled it was writing this book? Oh, no. No, I don't believe. No, no.
You know, you did. No, no, no. Then none of this came from No, I was not, I was not this person before, uh, before writing this, for sure. Yeah. This was def one of the chapters, uh, talks about like, I would run every day and then I would list, literally stare at the sun and then, oh, here's what I should write about today.
So that's what. That's what happened. Um, I take no credit for any of this at, at all, but was given a gift to do it, and so I did it. Do you, uh, did you have any idea, uh, that, that writing a book would transform your life so much? [00:05:00] Well, in this way, certainly not the previous to, um, the previous to transform life in terms of like interviews like this and.
Financial gain, which is great. I'm, you know, that's wonderful. This is a different, I don't even consider this a book. I, I'm not sure what to call it. Um, and then the fact that Dr. Deepak Choppers agreed to do the introduction for the book, like I, I'm, you know, I, I didn't expect that either. Um, but a full transformation, and again, what I would describe as an ego death, that's something that.
I would say probably most people don't experience in that in their lifetime. So I'm 48 years old in, in human years. So to be experiencing that now is, is super interesting. Well to, to delve into the previous books, which really, as [00:06:00] you said, gave you something entirely different, but is the focus of what we're talking about.
Yeah. Let's talk about that. So before this transformation, would you say you were far more focused on business and less on the emotional journey, or has it always been. Both? Well, it's certainly been both. Uh, for sure. It's interesting that the first book I wrote is called Epic Business, and in this latest book I looked into what the word business actually means.
It comes from the Latin word by zig, which means anxiety. So I wrote a book called Epic Anxiety, which is pretty, which is pretty funny. Yeah. So when people say the word business, they're talking about. Anxiety. So business coach, anxiety coach, small business, small anxiety. Wow. Um, and it's been very interesting.
Well, it's what it, the word sale by the way means dull and dirty, French word, sle. Um, so people say these words and um, uh, there's really no understanding of like where these things actually came from. So like. What I've [00:07:00] discovered, uh, certainly in writing the first two books, but definitely in this one, is like there's this entire human co-construct of things that are being conditioned or conditioning folks and, and they're really not aware of what's happening.
So like, it has been very difficult to go through this. Uh, I don't recommend it for anyone unless they're really ready for it. But if you are ready, it's a really fascinating journey and I'll be very curious to see, uh, where it continues moving forward. So back to this first book, what was, uh, was the reason that you did it to help your business?
Uh, yes. Uh, yes. At, yeah, certainly. Uh, at the time, uh, at the time I had one company, which was a global PR firm. And that was basically how to create a, a company from nothing with zero background in that world. Uh, just as background, I was a journalist for 20 years and then had job salary cut in half, [00:08:00] uh, couldn't find a job.
And then when I was working, uh. Full-time at half the salary, I reached out to 5,000 people. Well, it was more than 5,000, but it's easier to say 5,000. Reached out to 5,000 people to find first five clients, um, over six weeks. So that was like February 10th, 2017 to April, or it was June, I think it was June 2nd, 2017.
So like that was definitely epic anxiety at the time. Um. But then that book was about how that business, uh, scaled. And then also interesting, the second book, which is, is called Epic Life and that's how to build collaborative global companies while putting your loved ones first. And it's also very interesting since I.
Wrote that book, I've now gotten divorced. However, it was an extremely amicable divorce and I would make the argument that wa that the divorce is actually putting my loved ones first because what I've also seen is folks stay in [00:09:00] marriages where they really shouldn't be. Yeah. And that actually impacts the kids far more.
A hundred percent. Um, and it was really nice 'cause uh, our sons are 12 and 11. And, uh, the 12-year-old the other day, he goes, dad, are all divorces this easy and a amicable? I go, no, no, no, no, no, no. And um, and then the other thing is I'm really fascinated that anyone would deliberately hurt the mother and or father of their children.
But that is what I've seen, um, from so many people. Where I tell them like, oh, this divorce was very amicable. And they're like, uh, that's not how it's been in my situation. And they talk about their former spouse. So like, it's, again, it's very difficult, but very grateful to, to be in this situation right now.
And so, uh, I'm gonna keep hammering these books whether you like it or not. And I, I should say we have, well, that's what, but that's what they lead to. Like these, this is what a book really is. It certainly [00:10:00] helps financially and then figuring out your life and, and helping people with theirs and, you know, being a resource.
So yeah, that's what they're, that's what they're supposed to be. So, keep going. Well, so, so you write this, the first book, epic Business. Yeah. And tell me what that did for your business. Well, it certainly helped its scale. Uh, uh, brought it to speaking engagements. Um, I'm in an entrepreneur group called Abundance 360, and, um, they featured it there.
Um, featured it there as well. So I was, uh, very grateful for that. Um, but it's always, I would say, to simplify it, most people when they first meet me, um. They, they bring up books and, and they're like, oh, the, the thing, I don't know if you've heard this, I'm guessing you have, but the, usually the first thing I hear in regards to a book is, oh, I wish I had written a book, or, I've been wanting to write a book for 10 years.[00:11:00]
I haven't done it yet. And then they say, it's always really cool that you've done three of them. Yeah. Uh. Yeah. And then, uh, that book, just because you're asking like that one did very well on like the Amazon bestseller list. The second book made the Turner Journal and the SA today and, and um, it was number one overall for sales on all of Amazon Kindle for a little bit.
So that stuff's great. It's good to put that on like LinkedIn or, um, you know, your social media, which is, which is also great. But I think the main thing I hear from people in regards to that is. They wish they had done a book or they're, they've wanted to for a long time. Oh, I, I certainly hear that in the New York Times reporting.
I'm sure you hear it all the time, every day, every day. Joseph Epstein in the New York Times many years ago wrote a story that 81% of people believe they have a book in them. Studies show roughly 3% do it. So only three. So I'd say a hundred percent. Um, a hundred percent have a, I mean, I was a [00:12:00] journalist for 20 years.
I haven't met one person, regardless of whether I interviewed them or not. That doesn't have a good story. I, I haven't met one. I'd be surprised if there is. So I, I'll always say. Everybody's got a book in them. I'm not sure they should all write them themselves, in fact. Uh, well, so that's the other thing, like, um, so like things a child can do, like hold a pencil or tie their shoes, I have a hard time doing, that's not a joke, but writing a book's actually real easy for me.
Like this last one, it took, I don't know, 30, 30 something days, it would've been done faster, but I had to go to France to finish it. But like, no, most people. And I don't like to use the word should, but most people probably should not write their own book. They, you know, they should hire someone that who's much better at it than them.
But writing a book for me is really not that hard. I always say, if your life dream is to be the person who who wrote it, do it. But if you want the highest quality book and you don't write every day, you know, eight hours a day and haven't for 25 years, no, it's probably gonna be not as good. [00:13:00] Right. And if your goal is to have the best book possible.
Which I believe it should be. Yes. Um, that's the way to go now. Um, so you had these sales, uh, got these accolades for that. Yes. Uh, had it featured at Abundance 360, let's talk specifically what did it do? Uh, you were working as a publicist, as a, you know, ah, yes. Yes. Yeah. Right. Correct. And, and, uh, did, did you raise your prices?
Did it bring in more clients? Ah, okay. Yes. Yes, uh, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll like, uh, I don't really do much of the PR firm anymore, but minimum to get in the door, there was 30 k uh, a year. Um, it was definitely not, uh, it was definitely not that before I wrote the first book or second. I remember the first. Check. I actually got for the PR firm was $500.
And by the way, I was really happy about, I was like, really? Oh. I was like, oh wow. This is like, I actually have a company. [00:14:00] Um, but yeah, so raised the rates to, to 30 K for that. Uh, I would say both books helped start the second company, uh, which is a, a global mastermind, so it definitely helped with that. And then, uh, mentioned Abundance 360.
Uh, Dr. Peter Diad, uh, he actually wrote the Forward for my second book, so he runs Abundance 360. So having the first book led to the second book and then that validity, um. Enabled me to ask, uh, him to write that. And then both of those books, that type of credibility and those accolades led to me eventually asking Dr.
Deepak Chopper and his team to write the forward, or excuse me, the introduction for this book. So it led to that. So it's like, um, one of my favorite quotes is success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. So like all these things are like.
Staircase steps onto that. Yeah. Do the domino effect. A hundred percent. Yeah. [00:15:00] And so you raised your prices. How did, how did the second book or both books lead to the success of the Mastermind, which by the way, transformed my life? I, I was in it and it, and it was, it was truly an epic experience for me.
Tell me how the books led to that. Yeah. Uh, great question. And then, uh, you know, full disclosure, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with the Mastermind. There's a lot of folks that wanna be, um, wanna partner me, partner with me on that, but my ex-wife ran the company, so like, who knows? I mean. Um, but there's a lot of really interesting things happening with that as well, including like AI things where they wanna, like ai my brain, which is kind of weird.
Also. Terrifying. Yeah, terrifying but weird comes from the word WYRD, which means following your purpose. So like, again, I didn't expect that, but who, who knows what's gonna happen? But, but the, um, [00:16:00] the second book talked a lot about, um, how I connect. People. And then what that led to was, uh, connecting to find a former partner for that company and then how that company was starting to scale as well.
So like, um. If this answers your question, let me know. If it doesn't, I'll, I'll double down on it. But what I found is writing these books, it almost like manifests what's going to happen in the coming months or even years in terms of like, oh, writing about having a second company and then that scales. Um, or writing about the first company and then that one scales.
Um. I certainly did not expect while writing this third book that my life would be, um, completely transformed in this way. However, it is about, um, it really is about, um, your life [00:17:00] changing completely. So I didn't expect it to change completely like this, but I did expect it to change completely. So does that answer your question?
It does. It does. And, and brace yourself for your fourth book. Imagine what that's gonna do. Well, that's a good question and good point. Um, so I, I mean, who knows what's gonna happen, but, um, well, I'll, I'll call her a good friend. Uh, her name's Melissa Bernstein. So she co co-founded Melissa and Doug to, and she's in the, she's in the, the Epic Journey book.
So she wants to, I mean, I posted this about a year ago, but she wants to do a book with me, uh, about the drawings that I do. Uh, 'cause like, they're very like, um, I don't know how to describe them. She'd probably be better at describing them, but they're like very rudimentary, but like also very powerful. So she wants to do a book with me called, uh, drawings for the Cave, drawings from the Cave.
Um, and then again, just as background. So she had a, a, a billion dollar exit, [00:18:00] Melissa and Doug Toys is one of the top wooden toy. It's the top wooden toy company in the world. Uh, she's been, uh, suicidal for most of her life. She openly talks about that. Um, and then she created that company to keep herself from committing suicide.
So like, and she has five children. Um. Then she's just like, for all the people, types of people that we talk to, like these great visionaries, she's right at the top. Like she's an old, old, old, old, old ancient soul. So that will probably be the fourth book, but I don't, I mean, who knows? I mean, after, uh.
What's happened in the last 18 months? This'll be, this'll be a really interesting, it'll either be something like that or it'll be like updates on like, what's happened in my life since then. Either way, it'll be a good book for sure. Yeah. Melissa, first of all, I have a 2-year-old, so very familiar with her toys.
Yes. We play with them all day long. Yes. And she is in, there's an interview with her in, uh, mark RA's [00:19:00] book, which my company is releasing. And maybe out by this time called Beyond the Hustle, which is all about depression post exit. And it's fascinating. So, so in terms of the, yes you are, I can attest to what a connector you are.
How does the book play into being a connector? Do uh, you nurture higher quality relationships because people have read your books or because they look at you in a certain way for being a bestselling author, I. Well, I think that's a fair question. Um, I would describe myself as a very, uh, unique, unusual, many people call me weird or strange, which I take as compliment.
So I guess people look at me in a different way because of books. Um. I, I would say for me, writing these books is a way for me to humanize myself. Uh, [00:20:00] I don't fit at all in traditional human society. I just don't, I try to for a long time. Um, these books are my way of simplifying how I feel most importantly, and then translating that into how I think and act and doing it in a way that hopefully, hopefully translates to.
To most people. Um, and if it's helpless context, um. Uh, I'm very grateful to like editors and publishers, and I was a journalist for 20 years, but I'm grateful for them in this case because, like, I'm floating. You can't see this. I'm floating around up here. The books and then the editing process. It, it brings it more, it makes it more accessible to everyone.
Yeah. Uh, and that's very, that's very important to me because otherwise I don't wanna like, like talk. In a way that people can't understand. Right. Um, so the book is a really good way of translating how I see the world into a, you know, more [00:21:00] simplistic form that people can understand. Yes. Um, so in terms of relationships, perhaps people who would not have understood you did.
Yeah. Or they had sort of a manual to Justin Breeden's brain before they interacted with you? Yes. Well, not just mine, but people like us. Like, 'cause people like us are usually aliens within their own family, community, and verticals. Um, they're just not understood. Um. And what I hear more than anything from one-on-one conversations, I hear two words more than anything.
One is refreshing and two is nourishing. And, and I've, I've talked to people who are in their sixties and seventies who said they've never had a refreshing conversation like that because they've had to communicate in a way that everyone understands, but not who they really are. And so that's what the book is.
To me. It's a way of communicating who I really am in a way that hopefully many people can understand. And so what did you actively do to [00:22:00] get your book out there? It hit the bestseller list, but in terms of acquiring new clients or raising your prices, or did you send out copies? What did you do? So most people, I would guess, would say yes to that.
I don't really do any of that stuff. I don't really, it's been all, um, it's been all organic and then I just kind of float around and then if something is supposed to happen, then I'm like, oh, that's a good idea. I'll do that. Um, and like I can't announce it publicly what, what else is happening with the book, but as I was writing it.
Like in terms of what else will happen with it, it was happening on at the same time. And then it's just like this perfect alignment and then like, I didn't expect it to be turned into a, a documentary that Gary Sinis is gonna narrate, but I'm like, oh, this book should be a. A movie and then, uh, you know, somebody reached out [00:23:00] about documentaries and then he partners with Gary Sinis and Gary Sinis agreed to narrate it.
So I'm like, okay, I'll do that. But like, um, I. No, I I the traditional, like, um, I think one of my favorite, well, no, I know one of my favorite books is, um, uh, uh, by Dr. Wayne Dyer, his, uh, his memoir and he talked about like his strategic like process, uh, his book that book's called I Can See Clearly. Now, I strongly recommend folks read that book.
But I would say he was far more of a genius at the business, like, um, strategic part of it. That, that's just not me. It's tried, I've tried to have that be me, but like, I'd rather just do it organically and whatever is supposed to happen happens. And so, because you were doing it organically, um, and you know, my forum talked a little bit about this, but your number of speaking opportunities and media opportunities did, would you say they.
Quadrupled after the book More than [00:24:00] that. Uh, hard to quantify. Um, uh, but I would say, um, I do at least two interviews like this every week. Um, so that's, I don't know, a hundred a year. Um, I don't know what it was before that. Um, and then if it's helpful as well, like, so with the PR firm, um, what usually would happen is I would do the interview first and then develop, uh, a relationship with the host and then that would benefit the PR partners 'cause the host would want to interview them as well.
So it was a, you talked about the domino effect, which is really smart. It, I would say there was a domino, uh, effect in regards to that as well. But like the actual numbers, I, I mean. I have no idea. Um, well, I'll get into that then, because I've, I can't imagine you were doing a lot of interviews before your book came out because [00:25:00] nobody wants to just have an entrepreneur on their podcast.
They wanna have authors, so Yeah. So if you're doing a hundred a year, I'm gonna guess, what were you doing? Two or three? Two or three year? No, I, well, so normally I would agree with that, uh, because I was a journalist for 20 years and then, uh, when starting the company, people wanted to interview me. Um, and then like, um, I don't know.
I would post some things and people would be interested in that as well, but certainly not a hundred a year. I mean, it was much less than that, but I don't know, maybe a couple a month. So that, I mean that, that is rare that somebody, a journalist or a podcaster or whoever would wanna reach out when someone starts a business.
I just see so many entrepreneurs pitching themselves. But you know, if you have the relationships that Yeah, that could happen. Yeah. And so you would go on to, you'd, you know, you've been doing roughly a hundred. Podcast interviews a year since your first book came out. Yeah. And you would [00:26:00] come on and tell me about, so then you would have a relationship with the host or the producer, and then you'd be able to say, you know what, I've got these clients.
Well, yes, and, and, um, by the way, like, this is helpful for me because, um, uh, it reminds me of like when first starting the first company or even the second, like how I would kind of strategize, but not really, but it, it's helpful to like. Reengage my brain in this way. The other thing that happened that was super interesting, uh, it happened at least, uh, I wanna get this right for you because of the way you're asking me these questions, but I would say at least 12 times.
And I did not expect this to happen even once, but at least 12 times. The host interviewed me on their show and then hired my PR firm. So whether it was 30 K or uh, it was 10 k, then 20 k, whatever that number was, like these interviews actually resulted in direct, [00:27:00] um, you know, revenue for company. I had never expected that.
That's amazing. That that is, um, that's a kind of genius strategy. Even though it was not a strategy, it wasn't as well. Right. So that's my point. I don't, um, um. I have to, in a good way. I have to partner with people that are good at that because I genuinely don't care. Like I am not here on this planet for money making strategies.
I'm here to write about like what love actually is and like write a book like what the Alchemist and little prints are. Mm-hmm. So I'm guessing. The people that wrote those books also were not concerned about the financial ga. I mean, I don't think they were, the Alchemist didn't make money for years and it was, it was like sold zero copies for uh, uh, I will say the um, Eckhart's book, the Power of Now, I think it took two, three.
I think the original production had 3000 copies that they printed it, and [00:28:00] it was certainly not intended to make money. I mean, he had a two year existential crisis where he basically sat on the couch for two years. So I don't think his goal during that time was to make money. Um, and that's not, I'm not saying I've gone through something like that.
However, I think to create something with that level of impact, I think you kind of have to experience something like that. To like really have a full ego death. Um, because you start to see what actually is happening in society and what really matters. And then, and then you do see the byproduct. And I, I know I will.
This book is that powerful. Like it, if, if you read it, it's horrifically painful. That's really what it takes to, to do something great, um, and really impact people at the hardest, like heart level. So that's really more important to me than the financial aspects, although it's good to do that other stuff too.
Well, and I will challenge you that nobody wants. To write a book that nobody [00:29:00] reads. 'cause that's a journal. And so even if Yes, that would be pointless. Yes. So even if, you know, we're making up what Eckhart Tole and, and you know, uh, other authors did going in, we have no idea what their motivation was. As you said, Wayne er, um, who appeared to write books that were just there to change the world was a brilliant strategist when it came to business.
He was an exception. He was, he was the combination. Like, if you took me floating around and like the greatest brilliant, most brilliant strategist, it would be him. Like, that's, but that's extremely real. Like that's his, I mean, he was a unicorn among unicorns, uh, from day one. If you read that book, like he was.
He was like a savant as like a 2-year-old. So yeah, I just know, uh, from being on this planet that sometimes it looks like somebody just had sort of, oh, it just took off and there's just no explanation except it was brilliant. That's never the case. [00:30:00] Um, I haven't seen it. I, I've never seen it. Yeah. I mean, I've interviewed like, how many people have you interviewed?
About tens of thousands. I've talked to tens of thousands of people I've never seen, uh, even with the silver spoons, I know a lot of silver spoons. Even in that case, I haven't, I haven't seen it, so. Yep. Well, so, uh, we gotta wrap up. Uh, where can people find out more about you? Well, uh, for now I would say the best place is LinkedIn, Justin Breen on LinkedIn.
Um, the other company I'm. Mostly focused on right now is called COR v.ai, CORV a.ai, that we're teaching people how to make, uh, music through ai, which never thought I'd be doing that, so, so that's a really, really fun company. I'm excited to watch that one scale as well. Well, I should say that the intro to this podcast is music that was made by AI, and it's far better than any music I could make.
So. Oh, did you write the lyrics? Yeah, [00:31:00] wrote the lyrics. I mean, they're very short and, um, yeah, no, I'm a musician as it turns out. Thanks to ai. Of course. Yeah. Uh, so thank you so much Justin, and thanks you all for listening.
Thanks for listening to Behind the Book cover. If you loved it, I hope you'll consider liking and subscribing because it helps more people find the show. And look, you can like and subscribe even if you only liked and didn't love it. But if you hated it, you can skip the review. Or who am I kidding? I'll take one from you too.
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