In At The Deep End

This episode of In At The Deep End is sponsored by Brulo Beer.

Mermaid. Adventurer. Swim coach.

Lindsey Cole has cycled across continents, walked a thousand miles along the rabbit-proof fence in Australia and swum the length of the Thames in a mermaid tail to campaign against plastic pollution. Somewhere on the way she rescued a drowning cow and ended up on page three of The Sun. It sounds made up. It isn’t.

That Thames swim led Lindsey somewhere she never planned. Strangers began messaging with offers of a warm bed and a favourite swim spot, and Lindsey followed the invitations on a six-month journey around Britain and Ireland. Her new book, Swimming with Strangers, tells that story. In this episode she talks to Salim about the people she met, what the water strips away and why the wild swimming community may be one of the best things going.

Together, Salim and Lindsey explore:
  • How a Saturday coaching job at 14 grew into a lifelong love of teaching swimming
  • Why swimming as a mermaid is far harder than it looks, and what it takes to swim a whole river in a monofin
  • The unlikely chain of events that took Lindsey from the rabbit-proof fence to a plastic-filled sea in Bali and then to the Thames
  • How a cold-water swim community can turn strangers into friends, and how the invitations she received shaped her open water journey around Britain and Ireland
  • What the swimming world strips away, and why shared water can bring together people who might never otherwise talk
  • Why sewage in our rivers may be one issue everyone can agree on
  • Lindsey’s coaching approach, from pushing off the wall like a rocket to bringing play into your stroke
  • Taking the unscripted route through life, from Ironman triathlons to the Edinburgh Fringe
Useful Links
  • Lindsey’s website: lindseycole.co.uk
  • Follow Lindsey on Instagram: @stompycole
  • Pre-order Swimming with Strangers: Bookshop.org
  • Swimming venues and communities mentioned: Tooting Bec Lido, Clevedon Lake, the Outdoor Swimming Society
  • Book launch talk and signing with Lindsey and Salim: Oakash Lake, Sunday 8 November, around 1pm
Thanks to this episode's sponsor, Brulo Beer
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Produced by The Good Studio - thegoodstudio.co.uk



Creators and Guests

Host
Salim Ahmed
Master Swimmer and swim coach with 22+ years experience
Guest
Lindsey Cole
Mermaid. Author. Adventurer
Producer
Tim Beynon
Podcast Producer and Founder of The Good Studio

What is In At The Deep End?

Inspring journeys from the pool to the everyday. Hosted by Salim Ahmed, a lifelong swimmer and swim coach with over 22 years experience, the show dives into the human stories behind the sport. Not just times and techniques, but the moments when water became an anchor, a lifeline, or a turning point.

Each episode features honest, intimate conversations with everyday swimmers, Olympians, well-known names and unheard voices, all united by the role swimming has played in their lives. These are stories of resilience and reinvention, of grief and joy, of quiet victories and near-impossible comebacks.

From open-water epiphanies to childhood pool memories, In at the Deep End explores how swimming steadies us, challenges us and carries us through life’s waves.

If you love inspiring stories with depth, this is where you dive in.

Sponsor (00:00) This episode of In at the Deep End is sponsored by Brulo Beer and its award-winning alcohol-free IPA beer, All Good. Winner of the Grocer Champion New Innovation of the Year Award, All Good is the world's first high-fibre beer. And In at the Deep End listeners get their own All Good discount code. Just listen on to find out more.

Salim (00:34) Welcome back. You're listening to In at the Deep End. I'm Salim Ahmed, swim coach, and someone who genuinely believes that what happens in the water is never really just about the water.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please do follow the show on whatever platform you're listening on. It means you'll never miss a story.

And I'm so pleased to let you know that this episode of the show is sponsored by the awesome team at Brulo Beer, who I've known for some time and whose non-alcoholic beers have long been at home in my fridge.

Now, if you've not heard of Brulo Beer and you like the occasional IPA, their All Good non-alcoholic IPA has just picked up the Grocer Champion New Innovation of the Year award. So check out the discount code in the show notes to find out how you can get money off your first order.

And my guest on In at the Deep End today is Lindsey Cole, an adventurer, author, speaker and swim coach whose life seems to have been shaped by curiosity, unexpected turns, and a willingness to see where the next road, river or coastline might lead.

Lindsey has cycled across continents, walked a thousand miles retracing the rabbit-proof fence in Australia, and swum the length of the River Thames in a mermaid tail to raise awareness of plastic pollution. Along the way she even rescued a drowning cow. It's the sort of detail that sounds made up, but it's very much part of her story. That Thames swim also led to something she hadn't planned. Strangers began inviting Lindsey to join them for swims and offering her places to stay.

What started as a short trip grew into a six-month journey around Britain and Ireland, meeting people connected by cold water and discovering how quickly a shared swim can turn strangers into friends. There's so much to talk to Lindsey about, and I'm over the moon that she's joining me on the show.

So here's what's coming up.

Lindsey Cole (02:37) On the third day we came across a cow, and she was right up to her neck in water. We actually thought she was a plastic bag. She was all white. And then when we got closer, we realised she was a cow, and she was terrified, actually, because she was just hanging on by her chin.

Then we called the RSPCA and the police, and they sent six firemen down to pull her out. And then that evening I ended up in Oxford and I met a journalist from the Oxford Times, and he asked me what I'd found. I said, "Plastic bags, dog toys, mattresses, dinghies, and the drowning cow." And I was kind of joking about the drowning cow. He wrote a story, then the next day it was on page three of the Sun.

I went to Bali and I learned to free dive. And then on one ascent, I felt a sting to my hand. I thought it was a jellyfish bobbing away, but it was actually a piece of plastic. And I was surrounded by all these tiny bits of plastic. And it was mortifying, because when you think of Indonesia, you think of tranquil, turquoise, clear water, but it was just covered in plastic. And then I was sat on a beanbag under a palm tree later that evening, scrolling through Instagram, looking at free diving accounts, and I saw that one was wearing a mermaid tail, and suddenly something in my brain pinged.

The thing I like about the swim world is that everything's stripped back. You're in a swimsuit, you're basically naked, and then you're with the elements. And it almost does that with the conversation as well. So you don't know people's job titles or relationship status, or where they live. You just talk about whatever's going on there and then.

Salim (04:21) Lindsey Cole has never seemed especially interested in taking the obvious route. She grew up loving swimming, and teaching it was her first job at just 14, but her adventures have taken her far beyond the pool. There have been long-distance cycle rides, Ironman triathlons, roller skating journeys, and a thousand-mile walk across Australia. Some of those journeys began at difficult moments.

After her dad died suddenly while she was travelling, Lindsey has spoken openly about struggling with grief and finding a way through it. Movement and adventure became a way to keep going, to find something to aim for when life felt very different from the one she had expected. Then came the River Thames. After seeing the amount of plastic in the sea while free diving in Indonesia, Lindsey decided to swim the length of it in a mermaid tail, using the spectacle to get people talking about pollution. The story took a very Lindsey-shaped turn when she rescued a drowning cow and the adventure caught the public imagination.

But the story didn't end at the river's mouth. The swim brought messages from people offering company, a place to stay and a stretch of water to explore together. Lindsey followed that invitation into a six-month journey across Britain and Ireland, meeting wild swimmers and discovering a community that seemed to offer something more than a cold-water challenge. Her new book, Swimming with Strangers, grows out of that journey. Lindsey, welcome to In at the Deep End.

Lindsey Cole (05:51) Hello, Salim.

Salim (05:53) All right. So our relationship, I mean, in terms of how we met, is quite peculiar. I came across you on social media at first as someone who's absolutely bonkers. All I knew was that you were this mermaid who used to go off and start swimming in wild, weird places. And every time I engaged on your social media, your genuine authenticity and sense of humour and absolute crazy madness was probably my inspiration for the day. It was brilliant. I thought, this person is really interesting. At some point our paths will cross. And they did. Now, a writer, a swimmer, an adventurer, a mermaid. I'm going to say an activist, and an all-round good egg, and quite a fantastic human.

So, should we start from where I think the beginning is?

Lindsey Cole (06:48) Yes.

Salim (06:49) Now, you said swimming was a big part of your life growing up, and you were teaching it as your first job at 14. Do you want to tell me a bit about your swimming background and how you ended up teaching at such a young age?

Lindsey Cole (07:01) Yes. So my brother had a lot of energy. My brother had ADHD, which I do too, but that was diagnosed later. And so he joined a local swimming club to expend some of that energy. And then I joined when I was eight. So I would be swimming seven times a week. It was competitive swimming, but I wasn't very competitive. It was my social life. It was where I had my first crush and my best friends. Amersham Swimming Club was my second home.

And then one of the mums organised for the younger swimmers, like fourteen to sixteen, to coach young kids at a nearby school pool. So I did that every Saturday for two years. And I loved it. I'd get in the water and take three-year-olds who would be screaming and get them used to being in the water. And then two years later I'd see them doing butterfly or something, and it was a really proud moment. And I just got back into coaching this summer. So I really, really, really like it. I think you're either a teacher or you're not, and I've got patience. There's nothing I enjoy more than seeing someone who can't do something, and then seeing them be able to do it, and knowing that I was a part of it.

Salim (08:19) Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. Absolutely. I just have to ask, when you did compete, did you have a favourite stroke?

Lindsey Cole (08:26) Breaststroke was my stroke. A hundred metres breaststroke. I hated front crawl. I didn't necessarily hate front crawl, but I wasn't fast. There are people who like, whew, and kicking wasn't my thing. But now I love front crawl and I love long distance. I like taking things in my own time, no pressure.

Salim (08:46) I can see that from what you've ended up doing in your life.

Lindsey Cole (08:47) Yeah.

Salim (08:49) I thought it would be butterfly because you ended up being a mermaid. No, obviously not.

Lindsey Cole (08:53) No. No. And I don't enjoy mermaiding.

Salim (09:00) You don't?

Lindsey Cole (09:01) It's really hard work.

Salim (09:02) You can't say that. Everyone sees you as this mermaid. I didn't even know you were human.

Lindsey Cole (09:06) It's not that I don't enjoy it. It's that it's a very different type of swimming. When you jump in the water to swim with friends in a river or sea or whatever, you can bob about and have a chat and fix your goggles, or put your hat on if it's not on right. Or you can just chill out and then go and do your session. But with the monofin, once the tail's on and you're in the water, you've got to go, because you can't tread water.

Salim (09:36) Yeah, that was the thing. I mean, that would make me freak out, the thought that I couldn't tread water. So when you stop, what do you do? Do you just lie on your back? Sorry, this is a technical question.

Lindsey Cole (09:47) Yeah, you do. You just roll onto your back. So if I got water in my goggles when I'm in the monofin, and I was doing a long river, I would lie on my back and fix them, but I'd still have to be kicking. Because you can obviously float, but the monofin's heavy, so it sinks. So you have to keep kicking to keep upright.

Salim (10:13) And you did a long swim as a mermaid, didn't you?

Lindsey Cole (10:17) Yeah. I did the length of the Thames and the length of the [Bristol Avon]. Yeah, quite a lot of marathon swims.

Salim (10:22) So, the mermaid and the cow bit, if we come to that. Can you tell me a bit about swimming the length of the Thames? Why did you do it? And why did you do it as a mermaid?

Lindsey Cole (10:34) I had just walked across Australia following the rabbit-proof fence. I'd read the book when I was in Australia with a broken leg, and then my dad died suddenly three months later. So the girls in the book were really strong, courageous, resilient characters, which is what I needed to be. And each time I struggled with something, I thought about the girls. So eventually I thought I would really like to return to Australia to retrace their journey. And–

Salim (11:02) Yes, yes.

Lindsey Cole (11:04) It took me three months. It was all so beautiful and incredible. And outside of my world there, Brexit had just happened. So Britain was almost divorcing–

Salim (11:15) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsey Cole (11:16) –itself from Europe. But also, everyone in Britain was angry with each other. And then Trump had got in as president in America. So there was a lot going on in the world. And I just didn't want to go home. So I went to Bali to just chill out. And I learned to free dive. And then on one ascent, I felt a sting to my hand. I thought it was a jellyfish bobbing away, but it was actually a piece of plastic. And I was surrounded by all these tiny bits of plastic. And it was mortifying, because when you think of Indonesia, you think of tranquil, turquoise, clear water and white sands, but it was just covered in plastic.

And then I was sat on a beanbag under a palm tree later that evening, scrolling through Instagram, looking at free diving accounts, and I saw that one was wearing a mermaid tail, and suddenly something in my brain pinged. I had an idea that excited me to go home, because I knew I had to go back to Britain. I didn't want to. I kept crossing the border in Australia, going back and forth to Bali to delay going home, but I couldn't do that forever. And so I thought I would swim the length of the River Thames as a mermaid to campaign, or raise awareness, for this plastic pandemic.

Salim (12:37) Cool. There's a heck of a lot there. Some of the things I want to touch on, actually, because this is exactly why I wanted you on the show. Because what you've done is just so schizophrenic, in a really good way. And I love the way these things end up shaping what you end up doing. So for example, I've just suddenly put together that maybe the rabbit-proof fence is actually a swim book. Because indirectly it was the source, and one of the reasons why you ended up going down the route you did.

Lindsey Cole (13:08) Well, it's actually in my book that's coming out in a couple of weeks, Swimming with Strangers. It's the first chapter. We start off in the Thames, and I explain it took me so long to write the book because there are many starts to the journey. The journey is about me cycling around Britain, connecting with people, all the different wild swimming communities in Britain and Ireland, looking for somewhere to live. But the reason I did that was because of the Thames, and the reason I did the Thames was because I was in Bali, and the reason I was in Bali was because of the rabbit-proof fence. So there were many threads.

Salim (13:42) So it's more like a six-year thing, isn't it? That book has been in the making for six years.

Lindsey Cole (13:47) Yeah, it didn't take six years, but I kept putting it down.

Salim (13:51) The story is, yeah.

Lindsey Cole (13:52) Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was so beautiful that I wanted the beauty to emanate in the writing. And because the start was so convoluted, I just kept putting it down. So now I'm happy with it.

Salim (14:07) Yeah, brilliant. I think it's going to be a fabulous book, and we will be touching on it again later. But while we're at it, and you're at the moment with the mermaid adventure, can you just tell us a bit about the cow?

Lindsey Cole (14:20) Yes. So the purpose of the journey was swimming as a mermaid to raise awareness for plastic, because I thought if I was a mermaid it would be visual, so people would wonder why there was a mermaid in the Thames. Although I wore a black neoprene hood, so I looked more like a seal than a mermaid, potentially.

But my friend canoed beside me. She has a support canoe, and she's an artist, and her name is [name not caught in the recording]. She made a mermaid sculpture out of recycled plastic bottles. So we were towing that, and any plastic we found we put through Samantha's mouth. The sculpture's called Samantha.

And on the third day we came across a cow, and she was right up to her neck in water, and she was really deep in the riverbank. We actually thought she was a plastic bag. She was all white. Any cow I'd seen before, I maybe had seen a white cow before, but rarely. They're always black and white or brown or whatever. But she was–

Salim (15:24) Yeah.

Lindsey Cole (15:24) –all white, so she looked like a plastic bag. And then when we got closer, we realised she was a cow, and she was terrified, actually, because she was just hanging on by her chin. Then we called the RSPCA and the police, and they sent six firemen down to pull her out. And they actually had to make a swim to the other side of the river, because she was on the Oxfordshire side and she was actually from Gloucestershire.

And then that evening I ended up in Oxford at Port Meadow, and I met a journalist from the Oxford Times or something, and he asked me what I'd found. I said, "Plastic bags, dog toys, mattresses, dinghies, and the drowning cow." And I was kind of joking about the drowning cow. He wrote a story, then the next day it was on page three of the Sun.

Salim (16:15) That's a change, isn't it? Sign of the times.

Lindsey Cole (16:18) Yeah. Well, I think, with the headline "Mermaid Saves Drowning Cow"... I was in the water for eight hours a day, so I didn't really see this story grow, but my phone kept pinging with friends having seen it. But you can't buy that publicity. I think I was there because [David Williams'?] girlfriend of the time was on page three, and so they lumped me in with her. But she was there in her bikini and looking pretty, and I was there in my bobble hat and two wetsuits, swimming in the river.

Salim (16:57) So I've got to add that you made it to page three now onto my–

Lindsey Cole (17:00) Yeah.

Salim (17:01) –list. Can I just, I'm curious. The person who designed your plastic mermaid–

Lindsey Cole (17:05) Yes, sculpture.

Salim (17:07) –sculpture, did she do the big poo as well?

Lindsey Cole (17:10) No, she lives in France. So, after I again–

Salim (17:17) You have to explain to people why we're talking about a big poo.

Lindsey Cole (17:20) Yeah. After I did the rabbit-proof fence, I went to Bali and I started writing a book about the rabbit-proof fence. And then I got the idea to come back, but I didn't want to live at home, because I was, I don't know, 34, 36. I thought I was too old to go back to my mum's. So I house-sat, and I went to a chalet in France, and then I got a job washing dishes, and that's where I met [Barbara de Murbray?]. And then I went to Spain, to live in a friend's shed to carry on writing. And then I came back to do the Thames.

So I drove back from Spain two days before I did the Thames. The first day I went into the Thames was the day before. And the Mediterranean was 17 degrees when I left Valencia, and it was six degrees when I got to the Thames. And I had to do it in November. We started on the first of November, which is funny, actually. Naivety is a blessing, because now, having so much experience of outdoor swimming, I would never dream of starting an adventure in November. But because [my friend] worked the canal boats, barge boats, in summer, she wasn't free until the first of November. So I just thought, I'll be fine.

But I was so cold that I was sick the night before I started. When I tried to eat, my body was like, nah. So then I wore two wetsuits, two pairs of gloves, two pairs of boots. I couldn't eat for two weeks, because my nervous system had just shut down. And any time I tried to eat, I'd be sick. So the only thing I could eat was ginger nut biscuits, for two weeks.

Salim (18:55) Ha.

Lindsey Cole (18:56) Yeah. I could eat sort of in the evening, but I was still sensitive.

Salim (18:59) Yeah. Crikey. Sorry, and where does the big poo come in?

Lindsey Cole (19:03) The big poo. So, after I did the Thames, I didn't like the cow at first. She annoyed me, because media weren't interested in what I was doing until I was on page three of the Sun. And then six months later, a school messaged me to ask for permission to turn my story into their school play. So I went along and watched it, and it was beautiful. And I thought, I should turn this into a book. And then the following year it was lockdown. So I turned The Mermaid and the Cow into a kids' book.

And then that summer sewage pollution was massive and in the news. My boyfriend and I had bought a house and then he left me three months later. And he had depression, and then I caught his depression. And then he moved back in and we were cohabiting, and we still worked together, and it was just an awful situation. So to deal with that, I swam the length of the Bristol Avon as a mermaid, with another campaign, to campaign against sewage. And a local artist helped me make the poo. It was a poo sculpture, and he makes installations, inflatable installations, with hot air balloon material, because Bristol's well known for hot air balloons.

And I took that, so I swam the length of the Bristol Avon in my mermaid tail. And there's an artist in North Devon, and she made a giant loo roll out of papier-mâché. So my mum towed the poo and the loo roll with my dog, and I swam beside them. And my dog, funnily enough, doesn't like being surrounded by water, so she buried her nose into my mum's crotch. And my poor mum hadn't canoed for maybe 40 years, or 50 years, maybe since she was a teenager, and she was canoeing, towing this big poo sculpture with a dog stuck in her crotch, and it was chucking it down with rain the first two or three days. Yeah. Yeah.

Salim (20:56) Your mum, I need to interview your mum, she sounds like a hero. And did you take all of this to the Edinburgh Fringe? Because you've also been at the Fringe recently, haven't you?

Lindsey Cole (21:07) Yeah. So once you've read a book a hundred times, you end up performing it to make it more fun for yourself. And then I had a friend who had just moved to Edinburgh, so I was like, I should come and see you. And then I was like, well, if I come and see you, I might as well go in August, because I've never been to the Fringe. And then two weeks before going, I was like, well, if I'm going to see my friend for a few days at the Edinburgh Fringe and to see some shows, I might as well do a show myself. So I organised to do it. Yeah, that's–

Salim (21:40) You do. That is brilliant.

Lindsey Cole (21:43) That's the good side of the ADHD brain. You just do something. So I did. I just turned The Mermaid and the Cow into a show. It was terrible. I made props. I sat my mermaid tail on stage and read the book, and I got kids to come up and act it out with props I made. And it was terrible, and I was only there for six days, but I just loved everything about the Fringe. I called it a cultural Ibiza, because people are flyering in the street, there's activity.

Salim (22:17) Yeah, yeah. I used to live there. I lived there for 10 years and I absolutely loved the Fringe, the whole atmosphere of the Fringe.

Lindsey Cole (22:23) Yeah. And it was horrendous. The first day was horrendous, because people tell you to go to the Royal Mile to flyer, but everyone ignores you, because so many people are flyering. So then someone told me to go to... actually, I panicked and ran into a cafe with my hair all stressed and big and wires hanging out of my bag. And then this girl sat beside me, and she looked all kept and beautiful, with orange-red curls. So I told her how beautiful she looked. And she said to me that I looked really fun. And we got talking, and I said I was doing a show and it was my first time, and she said she was the lead in the opera at the International Edinburgh Festival. And the opera, it was in Russian, I think, but it basically translated to "mermaid." So she was a mermaid. And then she gave–

Salim (23:18) God.

Lindsey Cole (23:19) –me a tip on what to do. She told me to go and sit outside someone's show that was similar to mine. So Julia Donaldson was performing that year. So I went and sat on a wall outside her show in my mermaid tail to flyer, and kids came up to me, and it was nice and peaceful. And then a few days later I saw Julia Donaldson in the street. So I went up to say hello, and I was working myself up over what to say. And before I said anything, she said, "You're the mermaid we walk past every day." So I was blown away. And then her husband had taken a photo of me without me knowing, and then he suggested we get a photo together.

And it's just like that. You're walking amongst stars, but you're on the same level, because it's so gruelling, the Fringe, that everyone's got so much respect for each other. And then it made me want to go back. So I went back with a better show, and I've improved my show since, and now I do the show of The Mermaid and the Cow, and a big poo as well.

Salim (24:13) And see, that's what I like about you. The more you talk, the more I start thinking, crikey, you've just done so many things. A lot of it's been unplanned. You've just done what you feel–

Lindsey Cole (24:22) Yeah.

Salim (24:23) –like doing, and then it's led to other things. And I think it's a great way, if you can, to live your life. If you've got the guts to take that chance and just go with what's in your heart, other things will follow. And they won't be what you thought about or planned. They'll be completely unexpected. They'll take you down new avenues and routes, because your career path is as unscripted as you can possibly get–

Lindsey Cole (24:47) Yeah!

Salim (24:49) –which is great. I think it's absolutely brilliant and that's why it's so inspirational.

Going back to the book, which I think is brilliant, and I think it's the theme of it. So Swimming with Strangers is you, because your life has been about meeting up, human connection and swimming. And the book sums all of that up. And you've met some very, very different people on your journey, which is why the–

Lindsey Cole (25:16) Yeah.

Salim (25:16) –book is going to be absolutely fascinating. And it's a different take on a swim book, because a lot of people just talk about epic swims they do, or cold water, or whatever, or swimming around the UK. And yours is about the connection. I'm a very, very big fan of connection.

So if you could just tell us a bit about the book and some of the people you met. And then what I want to do is move on to the next aspect, which is marginally controversial, which is the whole bit about, you touched on Brexit, which was, what, 10 years ago, but the start of a lot of division and stuff that's happened in the country. And you haven't remained silent on it, which I've really admired you for. But I don't want to jump onto that first, because I think the two are related in a way. You highlight in your book the best things about humanity and connection, why it's so brilliant and why you can't lose your faith in human nature. But then you've got all this other stuff happening, which we'll come onto after that.

So if you first of all just want to say a bit about the book itself, which is when it's coming out and what it's about, et cetera.

Lindsey Cole (26:34) Sure. Yeah. So Swimming with Strangers is out two weeks yesterday, the 5th of November. And it's about my accidental six-month odyssey through Britain and Ireland's wild swimming communities as I searched for somewhere to call home.

So once I'd done the rabbit-proof fence, that was the big thing that had been holding me back from settling down for so many years, because I just couldn't stop thinking about the girls. I couldn't stop wondering what the land was like. I felt so compelled to walk in their footsteps, because Molly had been a beacon of inspiration for me for so long that I wanted to almost pay respects, or homage, to their journey. And once that was done I was ready to settle down. But I had no idea where. So I did the Thames, and I thought, yeah, okay, I'll settle down. And then I stayed at a friend's house, and she was my last best friend to be engaged. So it was always me and her hanging out. Whenever I was in London, I'd call her last minute and I could stay at hers, and we'd sink two bottles of wine, and she's a deputy head teacher, she'd go to school the next day. And so I knew things were changing. I knew change was imminent.

And I get sad in January, and my birthday's in January, so I get a year older, it makes you reflect more, but it's grey, miserable, people hibernate, you don't see people, I have less work, and it makes me think, what am I doing with my life? So I was really depressed. And then a message popped through saying, "Hi Lindsey, I loved your mermaid Thames mission. You've always got a warm bed in [Lytham St Annes?] up north, and I can take you to our swim spot." I was like, whoa, wow, that's quite nice. I'm ADHD, obviously, but I think recently I've thought I'm all ADHD because I take things very literally. So if I get an invite, I feel obligated to go. And I pulled it up on a map. I was like, that's really far. I've travelled all around the world, but I'd not travelled much in my own country. And so the north is really far away when you don't travel much in Britain. So I sort of put it aside.

And then I did a talk at a school in Windsor. A mermaid did pass Windsor Castle, so I went and did a talk there. And the day before, I wrote a post on the Outdoor Swimming Society to say I'm doing a talk in Windsor, if anyone wants to join me for a swim, please do. And then loads of people did. And then I wrote a post about it, and then people commented afterwards, inviting me to swim where they swam. So I was like, my gosh, there's this network of people that you could just turn up to. So anywhere I went for talks, I would connect on the Outdoor Swimming Society and ask if anyone wanted to go for a swim, and then they did.

And then I went to Tooting Bec Lido for the UK Cold Water Swimming Championships. And I did the crisis dip, which is a width, and then you warm up in a hot tub afterwards. But it was like, have you been, Salim?

Salim (29:47) Yeah, yeah, well, I swam in it once, and yes.

Lindsey Cole (29:50) Yeah, it's incredible. It's fancy dress, it's January, there's music–

Salim (29:55) That's brilliant.

Lindsey Cole (29:56) –blaring. There were 600 people poolside.

Salim (29:59) Yeah.

Lindsey Cole (30:00) There was an octopus. When people were cheering, there was an octopus tentacle swinging in the air. And the guy who was calling out the races was dressed as Elvis, and then music would blare and he'd be dancing on his stepladder. I was just blown away, so I couldn't wait to go the following year, and someone in the hot tub said, it's only on every two years. So I was like, no. And she said, "Why don't you come to the inaugural Scottish Winter Championships in March? I'm driving, you can have a lift." And I'd been that day talking to all these people from all over the country, and they were saying, you should swim here, you should swim here. And then I thought, if I cycle to Scotland, then I can stay with all these people who have been inviting me to stay with them along the way. So I did.

Salim (30:48) I just love the way you have this natural thing about upping the ante for no good reason. You've got a lift. Life's really easy and simple and straightforward, or relatively. And you decide to just cycle up to Scotland instead.

Lindsey Cole (31:05) Well, you know what? You sort of hit the nail on the head, because you said life's simple and easy, but it's not for me. When I'm in everyday life, I really struggle. I was teaching English at the time, online. It enabled me to travel for so long. And when I was away it made sense, because it was ten pounds an hour, I could do an hour here or there whenever I wanted. But back in England, things are more expensive. And I could stay at friends' for free for a short amount of time, but it wasn't sustainable. And it wasn't inspiring either. So I had to get a proper job, I didn't know what I wanted to get. Whereas moving, cycling to the other end of the country and staying with strangers, easy. I can do that, no problem. And yeah–

Salim (31:55) You know what you're doing day to day.

Lindsey Cole (31:58) Yeah. And even if I didn't have a free place to stay one night, I could source it, I could find it. I've got good tools to be able to get [stuff?] for free.

Salim (32:10) Right.

Lindsey Cole (32:11) So, each swim, it took two weeks to get there. And each swim was so uniquely different, and the people would just greet me like it was my birthday and we were old friends. And it just became so addictive. I felt alive. It was a really beautiful time, because I was so low, so depressed, and I was really trying hard to want to settle. And this journey just happened, and it made me like myself. It made me find my people as well.

Because all my friends... I'd spent so many years travelling and I had communities spread out around the world. And then in England my friends had dispersed around the country. So I didn't have one place to move to. And then when I did this journey I realised, my gosh, I'd been longing for community for years and I didn't know how to find it. I thought you had to go to one place to get it, but I didn't know how to go to that one place. And then I started to realise actually my people are everywhere.

And so when I got to Scotland, the person who offered me a lift to Scotland also offered me a lift back down south. And I said, actually, I'm going to carry on. So I carried on. I had no idea where I was going to go first, north, south, east or west. She left, it started dumping down with sleet, snow. I was like, shit, my vehicle is a bicycle. No one was offering me any places to go to. And then a message popped through and said, "Lindsey, I've just seen you're in Scotland. We're here too. We're in [Mallaig?]. We're in a tiny cottage, but a cosy cottage, but there's room, always room for you." So then I was like, right, west it is. And that led to Skye, then the Isle of Harris.

Salim (34:09) Which parts I absolutely love. So in the process of doing this, the recurring theme is, one, you found your tribe. And two, everything you've said to me suggests that the people you met restored your faith in humanity. You also learned a bit about yourself, because it's reflected, isn't it? People are giving you such warmth and love and hospitality, which kind of reassures your doubting self that actually, I must be all right if other people are doing this. Great, brilliant. I would have said you need to write a book, but that's exactly what you've done, because it's a fabulous story.

However, there's this other side. Over the last 10 years, things have been a bit weird, to say the least, in this country and in other countries as well. And you haven't been holding back in terms of how you feel about it, and how you feel about the ugliness out there, to do with whether it's racism or migration or asylum seeking or whatever it is. There are a lot of things that are fairly well related there. And you stuck your head up. And I wondered, did you get a lot of flak for it?

Lindsey Cole (35:20) No. I think people can get annoyed with people sharing, like friends, not friends, but I think it can be very confronting for some people. I have had uncomfortable conversations with old friends that I've discovered vote a certain way that I would never have expected them to. I have spoken to friends about this as well, that before Brexit, you would be friends with people who would have voted Brexit, but you wouldn't have known they voted Brexit. They might have said the odd remark here or there, and you might not have been surprised that they did, but I would have felt comfortable going into any pub in the country before Brexit.

In fact, one time I had a very awkward moment where I was roller skating to Bude in a nude suit, and I had to have a friend cycle beside me so I could use him to brake. At the beginning I wasn't going to make it to the end of the first day, so I had to get on a bus, and he wasn't allowed on the bus. So I said, I'll meet you in the pub next to the train station. I didn't know, I think it was Bridgwater. I didn't know Bridgwater. But there's always a pub next to the train station. And I went in there and it was a bad pub. They were talking about a fight the night before. No one looked at me. I'm in a nude suit with a helmet on and roller skates on my feet and pads. No one asked me what I was doing. But that felt okay then, whereas now I'd be more wary going into the wrong pub, just because it's us and them. Each side is... and it can be antagonistic. And yeah, it can get you down, because there's a lot of hate. And I'm someone who feels like an empath, and it's a privilege for it not to affect you, you know what I mean?

Salim (37:15) Yeah.

Lindsey Cole (37:19) I will say though, the thing I like about the swim world is that everything's stripped back. You're in a swimsuit, you're basically naked, and then you're with the elements. And it almost does that with the conversation as well. So you don't know people's job titles or relationship status, or where they live. You just talk about whatever's going on there and then. But there are a lot of different people across the political spectrum and you wouldn't know. So sometimes I can find it hard when you then discover how someone views things.

And recently I organised a swim for Swim with Gaza. So there's an international swim festival, to raise money for this guy in Gaza to teach kids to swim, because they've got this sea, and as we know swimming is great for mental health, and when they've lost everything, for them to be able to jump in the sea and have joy is beautiful. And I'm really late with doing stuff, so I did organise it last minute, so not many people came. Well, no one came, it was just me. But I left a board down at Clevedon Lake to encourage people–

Salim (38:25) I would have come had I known.

Lindsey Cole (38:28) I left a board to encourage people to read about it. And then I took a photo and I got a message from someone that I know who said, "Can I take the photo down, for a particular reason?" And then they said how all funding raised for Gaza actually goes to Hamas, and this and that. And she said that–

Salim (38:51) Yeah, yeah. The usual.

Lindsey Cole (38:53) Yeah. And I was like, you know what? This is a swimming lake. The charity was raising money for kids to learn to swim in Gaza. The only reason she didn't like it was because it was Gaza. But I thought, that affected me, actually. I was like, hmm.

Salim (39:12) I mean, the thing you touched on there was great, which is that swimming is the great leveller in so many ways. It doesn't matter what shape, size, background you are. Once you're in the water, you've all got the same, you're all equalised, effectively.

Lindsey Cole (39:28) Yeah.

Salim (39:29) And I know for a fact that I've got a lot of clients and people I swim with who are from all sorts of different political persuasions, but we've got that common thread. And the best way to look at it is, we know that we're coming at this from very different backgrounds. If you looked at our lives, but here we are with some common ground. And if you start with common ground, then things can sort themselves out a bit. It's the opening to dialogue.

I mean, I've coached women who've turned up with headscarves to swim, and watching them interact with people who I know for a fact, under different circumstances, in the wrong pub, would be at least politely dismissive of them, putting it politely, are suddenly really quite friendly and affectionate to them at the lake. And it's as if they're not Muslims, they're not fundamentalists, they're human beings, and everyone is getting on, and it's beautiful to watch.

Lindsey Cole (40:33) Yeah.

Salim (40:34) Around an open water venue, when you see people of so many different backgrounds and cultures. I mean, that does happen at [Shepperton?]. You get people of all persuasions, backgrounds, et cetera, coming together and getting on so well in that environment. And I think–

Lindsey Cole (40:48) Well, people do when they've got a shared common interest.

Salim (40:52) Yeah, exactly.

Lindsey Cole (40:54) And similarly with sewage pollution, that's probably one issue–

Salim (40:58) Yes.

Lindsey Cole (40:59) –that I think everyone across the board politically can agree on, that we don't want poo in our rivers.

Salim (41:08) Yeah, we can all agree on that. I mean, whether we get rid of fossil fuels and do fracking, or how we go about managing climate change, is another matter. But it's funny how when it comes to water pollution, and you have to swim in that water, suddenly we're all on the same side.

Lindsey Cole (41:28) Yeah.

Salim (41:29) And that's what I like about swimming. It does bring so many people who would normally never get together, together, which is great.

So now that you're a swim coach, as well as an author and environmental campaigner, when someone arrives nervous about open water, what do they discover beyond being a strong swimmer? Well, first of all, where was your dream swim destination, if you've still got one? Where would you like to go? Those are two completely separate questions. But how do you deal with a swimmer who's coming to you and looking for that next challenge when they are learning to swim?

Lindsey Cole (42:03) What do you mean, next challenge?

Salim (42:06) Well, they come to you and they usually have, they want to improve their stroke for a reason.

Lindsey Cole (42:10) Right.

Salim (42:11) Those reasons can vary. I get a lot of people saying, "I've accidentally signed up to a triathlon and I hate open water. How do I deal with it?" And occasionally I get someone who says, "I've just signed up for a Channel relay," or whatever.

Lindsey Cole (42:26) Yeah.

Salim (42:27) What do you come across?

Lindsey Cole (42:29) It varies, actually. A guy was doing an Ironman, and he was a good runner and cyclist, and swimming was his weakest thing. And it's funny, I had a friend who, whenever I had an issue with my laptop, he'd come around and help me and it would take hours. But he loved problem-solving with my laptop. I was like, my god, I can't think of anything worse. But I'm like that with swimming. I love working out what's going wrong. And he just got in and went. I was like, whoa, you need to slow down. You'll go the same distance at the same speed, but you'll save so much more energy. And that was an easy fix, but getting him to do it was work for him.

But then I had someone recently, and I've never seen a stroke like that. She wasn't slow, but she just did this. It was like she'd been told to do high elbow. I've got a nineties retro stroke, so I've got really high elbows. But hers was so high that her hand went in, like, almost down. And she was stuck in that. But I always get people, I take them back to basics. So the guy doing the Ironman didn't like doing this exercise. He's like, "I don't think I need to do that." I was like, no, absolutely. I always get everyone to push off the wall, because I've taught kids. And I taught skiing to three- and four-year-olds. I often wish, when I've picked up a new hobby and taught myself through YouTube or whatever, or cheats, I often wish I'd started from the beginning, because then it's ingrained in you.

So I get everyone to push off the wall like a rocket, I call it the rocket, with their arms up like this to be streamlined, and I get them to repeat and repeat and repeat until they perfect it. Then I add kicking, then I add arms, but with no breathing, then I add the breathing. And I do it till they get bored, but the amount they improve in that one session... And then I dictate that they need to do it every time they go swimming. So whenever they go swimming, instead of just walking down the steps and plopping in, they push off the wall. Because I don't think people understand the sensation of being streamlined. And when–

Salim (44:42) [Nice, quite?]

Lindsey Cole (44:44) –you are streamlined, you don't have to do much work. You just move.

Salim (44:48) Yeah. And everything you're saying there is exactly how I coach, because one of the things I do at my retreats is I take everyone back several steps to the beginning and we do the push and glide. We talk about body alignment, and it's giving everyone permission to just stop for a second and think about what this process is about. It's not just, can I get in there and do A to B in the fastest time possible? It is, why are you in there? How do you get from A to B using the least amount of energy, and enjoy the process? And that really is having to say, look, I'm giving you permission, by forcing you to stop, go underwater, come up, just work on relaxing and controlling your breathing, and then pushing and gliding and doing nothing but just seeing how far you go.

Lindsey Cole (45:44) Exactly. And everyone is able to stand, I mean, if they're able-bodied, but stand straight. But when people get into the water, weird things happen. People become so... I'm lucky because I grew up as a swimmer. When I did Ironman, I think the first time I did it, I only went swimming six times that year, because I'm lazy and I know I can swim. I focused on the cycling and the running and I still came up quite high in the swim, because when I say I'm a good swimmer, I'm competent, I'm not fast, I wouldn't win anything, but I don't get stressed. Whereas people who are anxious get in the water and then they get stressed, their body stiffens, their legs drop, and their body alignment goes away. But if they push off and learn to be nice and tall, like they stand... everyone can do that, but they need to be told to do that.

Salim (46:40) Yeah. I mean, I think it was two episodes back, I talked about just connection and how important it is to feel connected with the water–

Lindsey Cole (46:49) Exactly.

Salim (46:50) –and any exercise that promotes connection with the water is going to get your heart rate down. And if you get your heart rate down, then you've achieved the holy grail, because then you can technically swim forever, because you've managed to hold your heart rate down, which controls everything. And as you said, it stops you being tense, et cetera, et cetera.

So I love your approach to swim coaching. It's just really annoying that you're so good at so many things. You so–

Lindsey Cole (47:18) I'm not–

Salim (47:19) –are. You've got writing. You've written a book. You've published two, at least two. I don't know if you've published more. You've done an Ironman. You've travelled the world. You're a free diver.

Lindsey Cole (47:28) Done four Ironmans.

Salim (47:29) You're, I mean, the list is endless. You've been at the Edinburgh Fringe.

Lindsey Cole (47:32) But banking, admin, finance.

Salim (47:35) Yeah, blah, blah, banking, smanking, you know, who needs that? It's all the things that matter in life and are good for your soul, you have in spades. So I'm not trying to big you up for no reason. I'm just–

Lindsey Cole (47:47) Thanks, Salim.

Salim (47:49) –saying this because anyone listening out there needs to get on this. And if there's anything that they're going to pick up from this podcast, this interview, it's how to approach life. Now, you might think, I've got no plan, it's a bit schizophrenic and I just see how it goes. Actually, that's not an appalling way to approach things. And you'd be surprised how many people admire you for it. So.

Lindsey Cole (48:17) Well, I will actually just say though, because during my show, my kids' show, I had no performance background. So I had to almost train, and I did improv classes, and they teach you how to play. And as an adult, gosh, we've got so many inhibitions. That's why we drink, and then you lose your inhibitions and do whatever. But that encouraged me to learn how to play as an adult. And then I've taken it into swimming, with my coaching.

So with people who couldn't breathe, who were stressed about breathing, or who crossed their arms, things like this, or who didn't stretch their arm properly, I would do a thing where I'd get them to, number one, play underwater. Because when you are a kid and you swim underwater, you understand–

Salim (49:07) Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsey Cole (49:08) –how to scull and scoop. It's just when people overthink. And then I do this thing where they do one stroke, two strokes, then flip on the back and just rotate, keep going. And they laughed, and they found it hard but fun. But by doing it, they would be sculling and catching the water, which they don't do when they're doing front crawl, because they're overthinking everything. So bringing play into coaching was really fun for me, and a really good transferable skill, but also a good way for them to learn catch.

Salim (49:46) Yeah, I think that's brilliant. Play and the catch and the technicalities of connection are all related, because when you play, you stop overthinking things. You–

Lindsey Cole (49:55) Yes.

Salim (49:56) –stop being an adult, you start being a child and doing things instinctively, which is the secret to mastering something, because you want it to become a reflex. You want it to be something you just do naturally without thinking. And if you do something like that, you're relaxed. You then perform so much better. And I think a lot of adults and grown-ups and very, very competitive swimmers could learn a lot from taking that approach, or building that into their training.

Lindsey Cole (50:22) Yeah.

Salim (50:24) Going back to, I mean, we're working towards why people have to go out and buy this book, because it's just going to be bloody brilliant. We are going to do an event.

Lindsey Cole (50:36) Yes.

Salim (50:37) We've only just talked about it in the last couple of days, but we might as well mention it here on the podcast because it's an opportunity. We're going to be doing a talk and a book signing at Oakash Lake on the eighth of November. Is that right?

Lindsey Cole (50:55) Sunday, yeah.

Salim (50:56) Sunday, the eighth of November, at Oakash Lake, at about 1pm. So details for that will be sent out, but if any of you listening to the podcast want to come along, we'll both be there, and Lindsey will be talking about her book and signing it, and you can pre-order it, and the link will be put up on the podcast and on all the usual socials. So do come along.

Lindsey Cole (51:21) And please do pre-order, because pre-orders really help writers.

Salim (51:25) Exactly. Lindsey, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you and I look forward to swimming with you and being at the book launch with you. Lovely to meet you.

Lindsey Cole (51:34) Thank you so much for having me, Salim. I've really enjoyed it.

Salim (51:37) That's a pleasure.

Salim (51:43) Lindsey is mad. She is one of the most genuinely crazy, authentic, multi-talented, resilient people I've ever met. She is not only an incredible, selfless, caring human, she's a damn good swimming instructor too. You all need a strong dose of this mermaid in your life. And I suppose that's one of the fabulous by-products of having ADHD. Lindsey has recognised it, managed it and channelled it into her life, and as a result into all the people who have been fortunate enough to meet and benefit from her books, theatre, coaching, charity work and pure joyful, energetic company. Go to Bristol and find an excuse to meet her, or better still come down to our book launch event at Oakash Lake on the 8th of November. Details in the podcast notes.

If Lindsey's story has brought a memory or a thought to mind, I'd love to hear from you. You can send a voice message or email me at inatthedeependpod@gmail.com. Tell me about a time the water helped you find confidence, connection, or a sense of belonging.

That's it for this episode. If you've enjoyed listening, please subscribe to the show. And if you have 30 seconds to spare, leave a review. It really does help other people discover the show. I'll be back in a fortnight with another Coach's Corner. It's the third instalment in this new monthly series where I get to the training challenges, tips and techniques that can help you become a better swimmer and get closer to your own swimming goals.

Thanks also to Brulo Beer for sponsoring this episode. And don't forget to check out the show notes for our exclusive discount code off your first purchase. And I'd love you to become part of upcoming shows too. You can email me or leave a voice message with your ideas for future Coach's Corner episodes, or send me a swimming question you've been meaning to ask me for ages. And if there's someone you'd love to hear me chat to on the main show, let me know. You'll find all the details in the show notes.

Until next time, look after yourself and get in the water. You won't regret it. I'm Salim Ahmed. This has been In at the Deep End. See you soon.