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Conversations with marketing leaders on how collaboration and creativity are completely free power-ups for their team.
Hello, and welcome to Building Creative. I'm Joel Carter, and I'm here to talk about how collaboration and creativity can be a free power up for your marketing team. Today, I'm joined by guest Anthony Matrone to talk about some key aspects of collaboration. Anthony, welcome to the show.
Anthony Matrone:Thanks Thanks for having me, Joel.
Joel Carter:For folks who are just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. So I am a pastor at a, semi large church in Springfield, Missouri, and, I lead large groups of volunteers. I lead large teams on our on our overall team at at Central Assembly where I work, and, yeah, I've been a pastor for 6 years. So it's, we at our at our church, we're we're all about team. We're all about collaboration.
Anthony Matrone:And so, and that's how I work best just personally. I I prefer to be working with people.
Joel Carter:Yeah. That's all first of all, I didn't realize it in 6 years, man. Time flies. Right? Oh.
Joel Carter:Well, what I hear from you there is is, like, 3 key points where you have to collaborate. What now whether you do it well or not, that's another story. But 3 key you said volunteers, you said teams, and then you didn't say it, but I'm gonna assume it, you know, collaboration with, you know, the leadership team because I know you are a part of that, that team. Absolutely. So you kinda have 3 different points of collaboration and yet they're wildly different groups.
Joel Carter:Just kind of starting off broadly, have you found any any ingredients or or action, like, behaviors in yourself that have made these moments go better, go worse, where you've you've kind of found better collaboration through certain actions or behaviors?
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. You know, I think where I try to start is just from a place of, relationship before you even start working on a project. I think it's important that you understand how people work and how people work together. Some people don't like collaboration, and so you need to understand who who's on your team that prefers to work alone, and who's on your team that is gonna have great ideas, but isn't gonna be able to execute them very well, and, who who are the people that are gonna poke holes in things, even in the brainstorm set sessions. And, and so how do you work with all of those different people, is the challenge.
Anthony Matrone:I think, you know, there's a there's a real great reason not to collaborate, and it's because it's way easier not to, in in general. Now you're gonna get way more out of collaborating, but, you know, I could sit down and just do all the things on my own, feel good about, you know, my thoughts and my processes and not have to put it bring anybody else into it. So I think that's really important is that relational piece is just in understanding, where everybody is at. You know, like like you said, there's kinda 3 aspects for me, you know, working with volunteers. I mean, that's gonna be totally different from working with the leadership team at at my church.
Anthony Matrone:It's just, it's just gonna be totally different thing. With volunteers, they can just say no and walk out walk out of the room if they're not enjoying you know, with with the leadership team, we we are a little bit more accountable to each other as well. Hope I'm answering your questions, and it's, it's pretty
Joel Carter:Absolutely. So I I got lots of things I wanna ask, but let's let's start with, like, the the weird one or the non fast one, which is you said that you find that that truly great collaboration is about relationship and that you find it important to build those before you you have that need or you come to that moment. So that stuck out to me because, you know, I think just yeah. Yes. Yes.
Joel Carter:You're in a nonprofit. Yes. You're a church. But, like, the speed and demand of of of your of the, you know, the the needs of your organization are are just as fast and as important as as those that I work with. And the idea to take the time to build relationship before you need to collaborate.
Joel Carter:It sounds slow. It sounds painful. It sounds like it requires, like, thinking ahead, which, you know, too many people don't we just don't have enough time to do. What is that I mean, do you do you kind of as you start to feel like you're heading towards a certain project and you know there's going to be people you're gonna work with, do you start to to, like, plant the seeds along, like, a relationship long before you get there?
Anthony Matrone:Absolutely. Always trying to yeah. I mean, for if I know who's gonna be on the team, I'll have individual conversations with each with each member before we, because I want generally, you know, I've been there 6 years, so most of the people I know well. But, you know, a lot of times we'll put teams together that are totally cross departmental and so, you know, some of those people have maybe have never actually worked on a project together. So, I'll take that time to say, you know, this is what we're working on.
Anthony Matrone:This is who else is gonna be on the team. This is kinda how they work, so just kinda be aware of that, and and just kinda getting and it's not to, kinda have, like, a a backdoor conversation, but to just be really upfront honest with with each individual, what what we're trying to accomplish and and who you're gonna be working with. I think it really, sets the table. And then when we get together, we can then, you know, have that relational component, get understand each other's strengths and weaknesses. And then at that point, yes, it is a slow process, but it's it's well worth it.
Joel Carter:You find it pays off?
Anthony Matrone:No. Big time. Okay. It it really, really pays off. Now here's the one problem.
Anthony Matrone:Because I'm I'm a highly collaborative person to the point where at times, if I'm not careful, I don't work well by myself. So there is a there there is a shadow side to collaboration for a person like me who I'm I'm more of an extrovert, and so I I would prefer to work with people than without. And so that's just kinda my nature. But, yeah, that that that that is the sense for me.
Joel Carter:How do you you talked about kind of understanding how people work. How do you how do you find that out? Like, what are there are there, very, you know, quantitative ways you find that out? And are there more qualitative, like, you know, instinctual ways you find that out?
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. I mean, I think it's probably more instinctual. I think it's watching, it's watching people and watching. And and, again, I have the benefit of I've been on staff for 6 years. So, you know and there's even new people on set.
Anthony Matrone:But I I have the benefit of watching how they work, outside of the the particular team. So I do think it's probably more instinctive, but it you'd be surprised at how quickly you you figure out who's who. And I it's hard for me to to quantify that, but it but it is interesting how you you quickly you you can very quickly find out who who's the who's not the brainstormer in the room. Right? Like, that's pretty easy.
Anthony Matrone:Now the one that, like, is gonna execute everything for you, that that can take a minute because you're, you know, you gotta get to that point of the project. But then you're gonna know you're gonna know the people that are highly creative, love to bring ideas. So I think just within a few couple of meetings, you're you're you're pretty quickly figuring out who's gonna be good at what.
Joel Carter:Makes sense. As you think about working on projects with with, the team directly under 8th of you, and and and you you kind of already hinted, and I wanna dig into it in a minute though, just about the power of, you know, it's it's when you have more when you work together, there's always magic there. But how do you what do you do or are there certain behaviors you do to to create a safety with your team, those that you lead, to make them feel like they can be creative, they can come up with ideas that might seem silly or stupid or, you know, just a little too loose because often those ideas lead to the better ideas. But what do you do to make them feel safe and comfortable?
Anthony Matrone:You know, I think number 1, is really just stating the mission of that group, whether it's you're meeting for a couple weeks or you're gonna be meeting ongoingly, you know, what is it that we're trying to accomplish? Because if you can't state that in a single sentence, no one's gonna feel really clear and when people are unclear, they're uncomfortable. People don't work well in ambiguity. And so you have to be really clear and concise when you walk into meeting number 1 saying, this is the mission. We are trying to accomplish this by this time.
Anthony Matrone:Right? So I think that's number 1. I think that that creates a safe environment because now, okay, well, I understand what we're trying to accomplish. This is how I can input myself into the process. Ask that question again.
Anthony Matrone:I I I I think that that's kind of my first point, but ask that question again.
Joel Carter:Just are there any other things you do to create a sort of psychological safety for the team? Because, I guess, we we could have maybe taken a minute to define what creativity is at the beginning. But creativity, especially through collaboration, you know, is the idea of creating novel or new ideas, you know, connecting things that that don't or that normally aren't together for, you know, a new solution. To do that requires bravery and it requires, you know, saying a thing that no one's ever heard before. So that safety is important and I'm just curious if there's other things you do to create that psychological safety.
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. I mean, I think I think also you have to you have to model it. Right? So, I I am not the type of person that's afraid to come up with crazy out of the box ideas. I I'm I'm constantly thinking in that way.
Anthony Matrone:And so I think me as the leader of that group, when I come up with a ridiculous idea, I think it says to the team, oh, okay. So, like, we can kinda say whatever we want in here and it's gonna be okay. So you gotta model that. It's not just enough to say, hey, there's no dumb idea. Actually, when you say that, it kind of implies that there might be.
Anthony Matrone:So you have to be careful with that, but you but modeling it. And then and then if you know that there's gonna be somebody in the room that is is gonna poke holes in things on the very early stages, I think it's not bad, especially if you if you have at least a decent relationship with that person, to have that conversation going with privately with them and just say, hey, listen, you know, you're on this team for a reason. We need your strategic mind. We know that you you think ahead on on certain steps. But today and maybe the following week, we need to really just be open to whatever, and I think that's just really important that creates a safe environment.
Anthony Matrone:And then I think I I think the relational piece, again, I'll go back to that. I think that's really important. You know, I'm not a big, like, on, like like, going out team building sort of sort of things. I mean, I think, you know, always eating together is a is a great thing, but, like, you I'm not gonna take my team ax throwing and that kind of stuff. I think that some of that stuff's just a little bit overdone.
Anthony Matrone:But I think, you know, break breaking bread is always something where where we can get around the table and and eat with one another and have some moments of of lightness, in in the conversation to where it's not all so work heavy, and pushing forward so seriously.
Joel Carter:That makes sense? It does, and I loved it. And yeah. Because the the the the folks listening, they're they're not seeing, you know, me pump my fist in the air. I I got all sorts of excited when you talked about modeling it and not just saying no dumb ideas, which I never thought that saying that it suggests there is.
Joel Carter:Right? So listen, it's so easy to stay in this conversation real high level. But I feel like everyone might be aware of some of the high level stuff. So to get tactical and you were talking about modeling to throw out an idea, you know, that's dumb or silly or out there. Is there is there a sort of race in your head, not a race, but when when the sort of meeting kicks off and you're you're, you know, you're working on creative solutions, are you is it more subconscious of just because you've let enough groups that you know you need at some point toss out an idea to loosen them up?
Joel Carter:Or is there a little bit of like a countdown clock in your head of like, I need to come up with an idea fast and an idea that is silly and stupid within the first 3 minutes or something, to to to grease the wheels before 20 minutes have passed.
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. I think I think you don't wanna you don't wanna let it go too far. And maybe it is, you know, 3 to 5 minutes. You you want to see if somebody else will will step out first because I think it's actually more powerful if somebody in the group steps out, says something that's a little bit out there, and then me as the leader accepts it or or asks more about it. So that that gives you, like, this moment of, not only am I, you know, modeling it, but I'm I'm showing I'm I'm modeling also how to respond to the maybe crazy idea that's in the room at the time.
Anthony Matrone:So but if it's not happening, yeah. I mean, you gotta you gotta step out there because, you know, in in some there's honestly been times where I'll just say just something that I don't even really believe, like, just to see what will happen. Right? Because you you have to keep it loose, especially early on.
Joel Carter:I love that. I love that. Is there, is there a way that you have found to coax that looseness and that silliness out of people who are traditionally pretty reserved or tight or introverted or, you know, there's a number of different ways we could define that. But have you have you found any tactics to sort of kinda kinda coax them out a little bit?
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. You know, you gotta be careful because, you know, I I create a pretty loose environment, on teams. The the issue, though, that can sometimes happen is that, number 1, there's just people that are completely uncomfortable with that, and they shut down in that. So you have to, you know, I I I like to tease. You know, Joel, like like, we like to banter, go back and forth.
Anthony Matrone:I got some people on my team that love to do that. But you gotta be careful. And and the other downside to that sometimes for me is that, it can quickly people see me acting that way and quickly, take don't let me say this right. They don't they don't take me quite as seriously as they should. And not that I deserve any sort of respect, but but just the the process.
Anthony Matrone:We're not taking it seriously now because we've been laughing for the last 30 minutes and just talking about this and that. I think give some time to that. You know? 3 to 5 minutes of just a little bit of silliness, a little bit of banter, and know when to quickly, bring it back. And sometimes that's hard because sometimes if you let that, you let that go, the other members of the team will try to, you know, really take that on.
Anthony Matrone:I have one guy on my team that is just like, if you give him an inch, like, he's gonna be the class clown for the rest of the hour, and you don't you're not gonna get it back. And so you have to, like, know when to pull the reins back. And sometimes, honestly, that's like like, I just stop laughing. Like, my face just I I like, and I won't smile. And and people quickly realize, okay.
Anthony Matrone:Now we're we're coming back to business time. Right?
Joel Carter:Like Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Some
Anthony Matrone:actual work done here. So that that's a tactic that I that I use at times.
Joel Carter:Sure. Have you have you found, that there is a difference in the quality of solutions that you and your team or you and your collaborators collaborators develop when there is that safety that we've talked about quite a few different ways and and that humor and that levity versus when it's all business from the minute go, no time for dillydallying or silliness or anything like that?
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think I think when you dive right in, and everything's serious, I think you, let me put it this way. I think I think laughter and goofiness actually brings out creativity in us. It loosens us up, and and gets us ready for some of that.
Anthony Matrone:So I think when you dive right in, and make the the the room feel tight, you can take the air out. And I've been in some spaces where I where I haven't done this well, or I'm I'm I'm really stressed about this project, and I I'm I just come in, and I'm like, let's get to work. And I can tell from those meetings, I and I could probably go back to meeting notes and and show, like, the the work has has just suffered because because we weren't enjoying the process because you got to enjoy.
Joel Carter:Oh, so good. Alright. Making a couple notes. So listen, I I didn't I didn't imagine this is where we are going to go today about collaboration, but it seems like there are just some incredibly strong ingredients for psychological safety on a team. If I could try to see if I can kind of recap it real quick.
Joel Carter:State the mission. Right? Because in that in that mission, there's clarity and then the lack of clarity is uncomfortability. Second would be model. Right?
Joel Carter:Model how to to to be loose with ideas, how to be, silly, inventive, creative, just model so that way it helps, show people that there's there's no fear of, you know, of a bad idea or a wrong idea. Set expectations with those that might be a little bit more, a little more restrictive on ideas or, you know, a little bit of that negative Nancy. And boy, this one, I don't know, we'll have to come back to in the future, but eating together. Man, there's something about eating together. It builds that relationship long before you need to draw on it.
Joel Carter:And and just being very careful not to suffocate the energy. Man, I I love it. I love it. I appreciate I appreciate you sharing those thoughts.
Anthony Matrone:Yeah. Thanks for letting me do it. It's been fun.
Joel Carter:Well, this has been great. Where can where can people find more about you online?
Anthony Matrone:Oh, man. Where can they find me? I'm not a big social media guy, so you can find me, my Facebook page. I mean, people still use that. I don't even know.
Anthony Matrone:I mean, I don't really. You can Facebook message me if you wanna talk to me. Well, I might answer. Yeah. You're you're not gonna really find much about there.
Joel Carter:No. No problem. Well, thank you for joining me and folks, that's it for today. I'm Joel Carter and I hope you join me again for building creative.