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That Transit Show is produced by Community Transit in Everett, WA. It highlights the people, services, and stories behind public transportation in Snohomish County, Washington.
From Community Transit in Snohomish County, Washington, you're listening to That Transit Show. I'm your host, Monica Spain.
Every month, we bring you the voices behind the scenes, the people who help you get from where you are to where you want to be. Welcome aboard.
Today, we're in downtown Seattle talking with Paul Comfort. Paul is the host of the top podcast on public transportation, Transit Unplugged, and Transit Unplugged TV.
Paul travels the world talking with transit leaders, riding the systems, and exploring trends shaping the future of the industry.
We'll talk about bus rapid transit, ridership, and what makes a successful transit leader. Welcome aboard.
Paul Comfort, welcome to That Transit Show.
It's awesome to be here. Thanks. And we're in Seattle, right up in your neck of the woods.
Here we are, and the monorail may even make an appearance right behind us here as we're sitting here chatting.
But, Paul, you have seen transit from nearly every angle, and I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about what you're doing here in Seattle,
and also just a little bit about your career in transit so people can get to know you a little bit.
Absolutely. Well, thanks again, Monica, for having me on the show.
I'm a big fan of Community Transit, as you know, and I think I saw one of your amazing-looking buses this morning.
A double-decker, probably.
Yeah. So I've been doing public transit in government.
It's hard for me to believe, but this is my 40th year.
40 years in public transportation.
So, like you said, I've seen it all, and that's why I'm here.
So I spent 30 years kind of in transit operations.
Small, medium, and large systems.
Started out right out of college in my home county, working for a Department of Aging, taking the elderly and people with disabilities to senior centers, doctor's appointments.
Remind me where we are now.
Where are we at?
Queen Anne's County, Maryland.
Okay.
Sorry, yeah.
Right where I started out.
It's right near Annapolis.
If people are familiar with that, on the Chesapeake Bay.
And so after that, my career kind of took off, and I was able to move around to various jobs, but all in public transportation or local government.
So I was CEO of the Baltimore City Transit System, but administrator of the whole state transit programs.
So we had, you know, tracks for trains.
We had commuter trains into Washington, D.C., and 350 commuter buses into D.C. and Annapolis.
And so that was kind of like the penultimate job in my career.
But all that time, I had this passion for the media the whole time.
Music, media, and politics and government are my three passions from when I was a young person.
So I was able to stay involved in media the whole time.
For instance, at MTA Baltimore, we started America's only FM radio station run by a transit system.
Is that right?
Yeah.
We did smooth jazz. You know, Baltimore City is the home of great jazz and blues players.
So and so we started a jazz station, smooth jazz all day long and five times an hour traffic and transit updates.
I had a great guy had a better voice than me doing it.
And yeah, I wanted to vertically integrate our marketing message to our passengers because I couldn't count on Channel 11 to give them the details about, you know, a shutdown.
We were having to do because we're working on the track.
So I wanted to give them good information.
We had a television show while I was there called Commuter Connections, and we expanded it.
It was on a million homes in the Baltimore, Washington area.
So I've always had this passion for it.
So when I retired as CEO of the MTA after 30 years in the business, I came to work for this company.
Now it was Trapeze.
Now it's called Modaxo.
And they basically let me do what I wanted to do, which was to create content for our industry and to showcase our industry to the public about the good side of transit.
Most times people only hear about public transit when it's bad news.
A bus has crashed.
There's a injury on a train, you know, in a big city or whatever.
I wanted to showcase all the good.
There's so much good stuff happening in transit.
So that's what the podcast was.
We started it now almost 10 years ago.
And the TV show we started after the pandemic.
The goal is our Transit Unplugged podcast.
I interview mostly CEOs of transit systems all over the world, you know, from Sydney, Australia to London to, you know,
it's the number one public transit podcast in the world.
And then we're heard in almost 100 countries.
And the TV show we started after the pandemic.
And we've shifted that slightly to make that an on-ramp to the general public to learn about how public transportation serves them.
So this is Transit Unplugged TV.
That's right.
Transit Unplugged TV.
Again, the goal is the average person is interested, like, food, fun, culture.
You know, it's Anthony Bourdain meets public transit.
That was actually my inspiration.
I watched a lot of Bourdain when we were all locked down during the pandemic.
And I want to show people what they've only been hearing on the podcast.
And I want to explain to them, you know, look at this amazing operations control center that controls all these buses.
Look at the dedication of these public servants who are here.
They're not here to make money.
They're here to serve the public.
And then we'll show you the food, fun, and culture of a city like this Seattle region.
That's why we're here.
We're filming with King County Metro and Sound Transit.
And you, too, now.
You'll be in the show.
And then we'll showcase all that.
And then how you ride transit to get to all that.
Like this, we're going to call this Travel Tips Using Transit.
Later today, we'll film us getting on here and say, you want to get to anywhere in downtown?
This is the way to do it.
Park the car.
You know, take the light rail like Cindy did out here from the airport.
And you can ride transit.
You never have to get a car.
You know, with light rail expanding north where we are, just north of Seattle, we are continually kind of optimizing our bus system to help bring people to Seattle, but also to other places they want to go.
We've been able to expand our in-county network because we're no longer taking people directly to Seattle.
And so I wanted to talk to you about some of the innovative things that you've seen that people are doing in other places where they're integrating systems that way in order to help people kind of make the most of transit.
So, Monica, in my mind, there are four cornerstones of a great transit system.
It's safety, efficiency, reliability, and world-class customer service.
And that's what we should be focused on.
That's what builds a world-class transit system.
So when it comes to efficiency, there's multiple ways to look at it, I believe.
One of them is financial efficiency.
Transit systems, you know, we don't have unlimited budgets.
A lot of cities are tight on money.
There's what was called the fiscal cliff, and we were using all this pandemic money, and now that's run out.
And, you know, the farebox recovery ratio hasn't returned for a lot of transit systems.
So we need to figure out how to do it more efficiently.
But also we want the service to be efficient, meaning I need to be able to ride this bus and get to my end point faster than if I was riding my own car, or at least faster than if I was walking.
Yes, yes, exactly.
We want the routes to be efficient, too.
And so what you're talking about, this integration of services between regions out here in the West Coast, there's a lot of that that goes on.
You know, the Bay Area has 26 transit agencies in the San Francisco area that serve that area.
So they're very integrated.
I've had some interviews with some of the CEOs there.
And up here in this area, of course, Sound Transit, Community Transit, King County Metro, they all combine.
And then you've got your own system within the county to serve people up there in your primary service area.
So I would say two or three of the ways to make sure that those efficiencies of operations continue is to have good communication between the leaders and the people who are actually doing the routes of the transit agency.
You don't want to have a lot of overlap.
You don't need routes overlapping each other.
I've seen a lot of places where there's too much service.
You said you just went through a rerouting.
We did that in Baltimore, too.
Yeah.
Jarrett Walker from out here has helped a lot of transit systems reroute their bus networks.
Matter of fact, pretty much every system in America now has gone through a significant bus route reconfiguration based on what the needs are of today.
Because what I found was that many cities, like Baltimore City, where I was CEO, they were still following the same routes the streetcars had.
So two-thirds of the routes were serving the central business district.
But that's where all the jobs used to be.
Now, obviously, there's been a diaspora around our cities. We've got suburbs and a lot of jobs.
And to go from one suburb of Baltimore County down, down, switch buses and come back out to go here, that didn't make any sense.
Don't do a V, go straight there.
So this is the thing that a lot of agencies have done.
So, again, that efficiency of the routes to help people get to where they want to go in an efficient manner.
So we're not just serving transit dependent, but it's a system for everyone.
We can grow that 5% to maybe 7%.
Even more importantly, we can demonstrate to the people that subsidize our service why it's a value to them.
You know, my friend Mark Aesch has done some big studies.
He has a company called TransPro.
One of the things he found out in surveys is that the general public is willing to subsidize public transportation under two conditions.
That it serves the elderly and people with disabilities because they feel like, you know, we've got to help them.
And secondly, it helps people get the jobs because they understand that economic development is a key backbone to their society.
And so we need to tell that story.
We need to show that story to people so they say, oh, yeah, this is exactly what public transit should be doing.
Even though I may not need it, it's helping people that do need it.
I'm willing to put some skin in the game.
Well, I can see that.
But the other part of it is wanting to get more people riding.
That's right.
So one of our most popular systems is our BRT system, bus rapid transit, our Swift system.
We also have microtransit.
So that helps with that first mile, last mile trip that people are trying to make that makes transit maybe a little more enticing.
These are services that come often.
The microtransit comes on demand.
And how are you seeing those kinds of services fitting in with kind of what already exists?
Yeah.
They are the two leading trends right now in 2026 in America.
Bus rapid transit for New Starts programs from the federal government.
They're funding more BRT than anything else.
Light rail.
There are some like where I'm at, you know, the Purple Line in Washington, D.C. that I helped get started 10 years ago.
That's nearing completion.
It's a $5 billion light rail project.
But BRT is where it's at.
Bus rapid transit, you know, the country of Colombia did it really well.
Curitiba and all these places down there.
They really mastered bus rapid transit and America has adopted it.
And it is simple for people to ride because you don't need to master the schedule.
The bus comes at peak times every 10 to 15 minutes.
So you just stand there like you would a subway system and it will just come.
And it is a great way to expand service.
Acknowledging that sometimes things change.
And if you lay down 10 miles of track, you're never going to be able to change that.
And cities move and cities change.
And so a lot of places are doing bus rapid transit.
It's a great way to give people a reason to try transit.
And then microtransit is another beautiful way to be efficient.
People say, what do you mean efficient?
You're sending a car.
It's like a taxi cab.
It can't be any cheaper than a bus.
Oh, yes, it is.
Ask M.J. Maynard.
Tell me more about that.
Ask M.J. Maynard in Las Vegas.
So they figured out there are parts of their service area that did not warrant a 40-foot
bus coming out.
But they didn't want people to have to not have any service.
And so, you know, 10 rides a day in a certain area, how much would it cost to run a bus up
and down there versus run a subsidized Uber or Lyft or a taxi cab service?
It's a lot less to use microtransit.
So microtransit is not only a first and last mile solution, meaning it takes people from,
you know, the hub, the train station, the bus stop to where they're going to go, but also
serving unmet areas.
And the third way it helps that I've seen it used really creatively is nights and weekends.
When service is picking up now for commuter rail at nights and weekends, but for traditional
bus going out to a certain spot at night, they may not need a bus very often.
Even dropping your service to one per hour, your headways to one hour, you may not even
need that.
And so you're able to actually pull buses off the street at night, supplement them with
taxi cabs or Uber or Lyft or your own fleet like LA has done and send out when needed on
demand, not the one to seven days in advance that ADA traditionally has required, but, you
know, real-time service.
And it is a fascinating way to reduce fixed route if you need to make sure people get actually
even better service because it comes pretty close to their house.
And so it's great.
Both of those, that's why, that's why they're working.
That's why everybody wants to do it because it does.
Because you and I were talking just before we went on the air, I'm a strong believer in
the seven habits of highly effective people, Stephen Covey's book.
One of the key principles is begin with the end in mind.
Simon Sinek calls it our why, right?
Why are we doing what we're doing?
So when you drill down through what public transportation is all about, in my mind, it's
about mobility.
Mobility is life.
If things aren't moving, it means usually they're dead, right?
A rock doesn't move.
A piece of grass does, right?
The grass is alive.
Mobility, rock is dead.
But cities and regions need mobility to stay alive.
People need mobility.
We don't want them to be homebound or stuck in a facility.
We want them to be able to get out and move and participate in life.
You know, none of us are getting any younger, right?
There's my age group and the one just before us.
We're all getting to that age where, you know, we need mobility and we may not be able to
drive ourselves anymore everywhere.
So this is the solution.
Really public transportation, it's not politically correct to say anymore, but it's the silver
bullet.
It has so many, the economic development angle, right, that we've already talked about, getting
people to jobs, the social services angle, but also just the mobility, getting people
to the grocery store and visiting, you know, your mom in the hospital, all those things that
we do in life.
So, yeah, microtransit and BRT are great ways to accomplish that end goal, mobility, moving
people around.
You've seen some creative things, I think, in Dubai with even things like scooters, transit
agencies adding other things.
That's right.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
Well, there's good and bad to all that, right?
So I remember being in a city that I won't mention, but remember when they first brought
scooters into cities?
Yes, I did.
Maybe eight, nine years ago, and they just dumped them everywhere.
These private companies did, and I remember calling the CEO of one city saying, Gary,
I see a scooter up in a tree.
Let me send you a picture of it right here.
You got to get this under control, man.
This is not good.
So, but it seems like most cities have gotten control of that now.
Yeah, but in Dubai, it's fascinating.
They have integrated, the transit agency operates, I don't know how many, 6,000 cabs themselves,
taxicabs.
And then the rest that are privately held or whatever, they integrate them in.
So the same dispatcher just sending-
You got it.
Buses.
The buses?
Are sending taxi cabs.
Yeah.
They say, send 1,000 cabs over here.
You know, the Seattle Seahawks game is about ready to get out.
We need to pick everybody up, you know?
And they have identified key locations, you know, but it's close by.
There's common drop-offs.
They use them like a microtransit, which I think we should do more of in America.
I don't see why we're not integrating taxi cabs more into our system.
Even if we don't own them like they do in Dubai, they're sitting out there.
They've been gut-punched by the pandemic.
And we want to keep that industry vibrant, in my opinion.
And a way to do that is to integrate them a little bit more, whether it's in paratransit,
to have them like I did when I worked at Washington Metro for MV.
I had a red-top taxi cab in Montgomery County and other taxi cabs in, I'm sorry, Northern
Virginia and others, Regency cab.
And they were integrated right into our network.
And our software would see them just like a normal vehicle.
We knew what the capacity was.
We knew it didn't have a wheelchair lift in it, but two-thirds of the people didn't
need a wheelchair lift.
So we could deploy them.
And the cost is low.
That's why companies like SilverRide and UZURV and Uber or Lyft are getting more and
more involved.
The cost is much lower because the model is Aunt Susan uses her own car to go pick somebody
up for three hours a day while her son is in kindergarten.
And she can go out and make a little bucks, help people she's been trained.
And we don't have to have a uniform driver coming in, you know, going through all the
stuff that they have to go through.
So it's a model that recognizes the society that we're in today.
You mentioned accessibility and the disability community.
And I'm wondering if you can tell me how are we doing there?
There's always room for improvement.
But I'm wondering what you've seen in terms of those improvements and what direction we
need to go there to really help people.
I think that our highest and best effort needs to be given to people who need it the most.
People that need the best hand up, we need to go the extra mile to help them.
And that's what paratransit, the civil right that was created by the Americans with Disabilities
Act creates.
You know, as they say, there before the grace of God go I, right?
And so we need to make sure that we're taking care of the people that need it most.
Now, the system was set up with rules and regulations from 30 years ago.
We haven't adapted fast enough.
One of the issues in government is we're very slow to adapt.
So there still is one day advance required to seven days where you can book a trip if you're
a person with a disability.
Well, that's silly.
We ought to be able to go to real-time service right now.
The technology is there.
Companies like the ones I've already mentioned, they have that ability.
And someone may not know I need to go tomorrow.
They may need to go today.
And so to make them wait.
So I think we need to adjust those rules and allow for that.
The other thing, there was pending regulations at the Federal Transit Administration at the
end of the last administration that could limit some providers as to whether or not they could
be used as ADA or kind of an alternative service.
And so that needs to be worked out so that there's clarity in the marketplace.
Most transit agencies now are outsourcing some or all of their paratransit service.
And so whatever we can do to be nimble and to serve the customer best, that's where we
need to go.
We're a lot better than we were, but we have a long way to go to still be there.
I mean...
Paul, where do you see transit going based on federal priorities right now and policy?
And what are the opportunities?
How can we make the most of what is going on right now?
Yeah.
So number one, we have a big unmet need in our country, in my opinion, and that is high
speed inner city rail.
I just got back from a trip to Italy, our Transit Unplugged TV show.
We went there for a week and we went between a bunch of the cities using high-speed rail.
And I've ridden it before, but I was so impressed.
And for the distances, which are really too short to fly, but too long to drive, like Brightline
has done between Miami and Orlando, but it's not true high speed yet, right?
It's not over 180 miles per hour.
And so they're trying to do that in the Western part of the US where they're going to go from
outside of LA to Las Vegas.
I'm a strong proponent of that.
Of course, it's the private sector doing it.
Interesting, huh?
Yeah.
The government, we haven't been able to get out of our own way, it seems like, on some
of these things to get it going.
But we really need that.
That would be something that everyone would love to use.
It's so much fun and so much quicker to get on the train.
Try Brightline.
You'll see what I mean.
It's high end.
So federal policy, they are giving money.
The last administration gave them, I think, a billion dollars.
And I think the current administration just dropped another one and a half billion on Amtrak,
helping them improve.
I'm a big supporter of Amtrak.
I love Amtrak.
Amtrak, that's what we currently have as our national railroad, inner city rail, between
cities.
So that's, I'd say, our number one priority.
And I think we will see that.
You say, where do I see it going?
In the next five years, I think we'll open up America's first truly high-speed rail there
in those two cities.
And hopefully, we'll get some more going.
Will they be sharing tracks with freight?
I mean, how will that work?
I don't think so.
No.
Because that would really slow things down.
That's what's wrong with Amtrak, I think.
It is.
The Northeast Corridor.
We were just in Chicago filming there with Jim Derwinski, who heads Metra, trains there.
And he was showing us.
It's the most congested.
It's where all freight and passenger rail for the country kind of goes through.
It could be a choke point sometimes.
You're waiting for this, that.
Kind of cool.
We were there.
They still have some equipment in their A-4 tower that is from the 1930s, 100 years ago,
track switching with pneumatic pressure.
And it works like a charm.
And it's foolproof.
It won't go one way or the other.
So anyway, I think the other thing that we're working on in America that makes sense is measuring
how we succeed differently.
Oh.
Tell me about that.
Yeah.
So the number one key performance indicator, or KPI, as we call it, is ridership.
You know, ridership is what we can tout.
Hey, increase.
But we've not recovered from the pandemic, really.
And I don't see us recovering fully in most cities at our peak periods because we've all
gone to remote work, right?
The bulk of ridership in most cities is commuter-based.
And, you know, you go to cities like San Francisco or high-tech areas like even here in the Seattle
metro area where there's a lot of workers and private buses going out to Microsoft and other
places like that.
And so we may not reach the glory days.
When I was at MTA, it was before the pandemic, just before, we had 130 million trips a year,
I think, the last year.
I mean, it's phenomenal.
Now they're like at half that total.
And so why are we always saying, well, compared to my pre-pandemic numbers on ridership, you
know, from 2019, no.
We need to get past that and get on to what are we really measuring here?
And again, I think we need to measure our impact.
How do you measure that?
Safety, efficiency, reliability, customer service.
So you identify what your core metrics are in those areas and your benchmarks.
We want to have 92% of our trips be on time.
That's a good standard for paratransit.
We want to have no more than two preventable accidents per 100,000 miles.
We want to make sure that our customer satisfaction surveys, like we were just in San Antonio at
Via, they have the highest customer satisfaction in the country.
And they have a great system there, VIA Metropolitan Transit.
Why?
Why?
So you dive into what they're doing and they're focusing on the customer is the bottom line.
I think sometimes people that work in transit don't ride the service.
And I know some agencies now are starting to make it mandatory for their key employees to ride at least once a month to see people that work in transit sometimes are stuck in offices.
I remember when I was head of the MTA, I started a different type of new employee orientation program.
And on the fifth day, Fridays, it was field trip day.
And everybody from somebody that worked in finance to HR to IT to procurement to drivers to mechanics to everybody rode the bus.
And we went to a bus garage, a rail garage, you know, a light rail garage.
We made sure we visited every service.
We went in and met the employees there and we rode the service.
We rode the light rail.
And it became, you know, obviously the most popular day of the new employee orientation.
But the goal was to make people familiar with the service they're providing.
So I think that's a key improvement that every transit system should try to implement.
Get your employees riding.
And then you'll see when you make that service change, like today I'm meeting with Tom Hewitt.
Tom used to be in charge of the service development office of Baltimore MTA.
Now he works here for the city of Seattle, working with Americans with Disabilities Act infrastructure.
And, you know, his adjustments three times a year to the routes had a big impact on a lot of people.
It shouldn't just be done by some statistical ridership analysis.
You should also see the impact it has on people.
That's why public meetings are so important.
When we did our bus reboot called Baltimore Link, we had 200 public meetings.
And we thought it all makes sense.
Okay, there's two bus stops on this city block.
It's ridiculous.
We're going to take one out.
We're going to make it so there's no bus.
You can't have a bus stop any more than, I forget, 400 meters between the one.
But then you get out there and you ride it or you have a public meeting and you see,
oh, now I see why they have it here because X, Y, and Z.
So you need to take into consideration the common sense that you get from experience.
What about the tensions around land use?
I mean, I'm thinking about BRT.
And in other places like Brazil, it works really well.
They have these wide boulevards.
They have center-running lanes.
Yes.
We've been able to do that a little bit here in Seattle.
We'd like to do it in Snohomish County with the Swift Gold Line.
That's what we're working towards.
But I'm wondering how those tensions here, how can we work?
I don't want to say work around that, but how can we work with the land use, the expectations
that we have here that cars are really, cars, we don't want to take away anyone's right to
drive or anyone's lane, right?
Yeah.
We were in Australia a couple of years ago.
We're going back this year to film.
And in Brisbane, south of Brisbane, the Gold Coast, there's a center lane light rail line.
It's just beautiful.
You know, it goes along the Gold Coast where all the beaches are and people can jump on
and off and go to the beach and everything like that.
Yeah.
When it's done right, it's beautiful, isn't it?
And you could still do that with BRT.
My friend, Frank White III, who was CEO of Kansas City Area Transportation Authority, now he's retired,
has a consulting practice on TOD, transit-oriented development.
So it's another way you can kind of preach the gospel of transit, right?
It improves property values.
Look at MTR in Hong Kong.
They basically run their service without any subsidy because they have the real estate that
goes with it.
And the increase in real estate, the value capture you can get from that.
When you do TIFIA loans and those kinds of things, you can sense, you can see the property
values go up.
It doesn't always work.
In Baltimore City, where we had the light rail line go down Howard Street, it did not increase
the values.
So it has to be managed correctly.
It can't just be left to itself.
You need somebody on top of that, making sure that the property owners and especially the
developers see the value of it.
When it's done right, like it was in Kansas City, they're building hospitals and apartment
complexes and all that on these lines because they see the value.
Now, there's some school of thought that says that it's easier to get businesses to commit
to develop property around a rail line like that because it's fixed and they know it's
not going to move.
Whereas a bus line or bus rapid transit even, that can be moved.
So they don't want to make their, you know, like we were in Kansas City again recently and
there's a hotel there with no parking because they're on the light rail line, Tom's light
rail line out there.
And so they felt confident that they could develop this and the city gave them, you know,
normally there's parking requirements when it comes to a hotel.
They gave them some kind of dispensation for that because they were on the city's light
rail line.
So it really needs to be managed up front.
But I think the value it can bring to the community by increased property taxes helps the city
and it allows people to say, hey, I'm going to ride transit.
So I want to talk about your book, Find Your X Factor and how it connects with transit.
So I've seen that in our industry, the people that are self-actualized, it's in any industry
really, right?
Where you feel like I'm operating at my peak potential, you're going to deliver more for
that agency, right?
If you are unhappy, you may not.
So what I want for our industry is for leaders and employees, those who are here to serve others,
to find their X factor.
And I've defined it as this.
It is the intersection of your interests and abilities.
It's that simple.
So it's a skill set and it's your interest.
If you can find a way to put them together in a job where they intersect, you will wake
up every morning like Thomas Edison said.
I've never worked a day in my life.
It was all fun.
And you'll feel like it's fun.
But obviously he did a lot of work, but it didn't feel like it.
Don't you want to feel that way?
Yeah.
I feel that way now.
Every day I wake up with a fire in my belly.
I'm excited about what I'm doing.
I'm making a difference in my world and I'm good at it.
I know transit like the back of my hand.
You know, I've been doing it for almost 40 years.
So I can put those together and do what I'm doing.
That's what I want for everyone in our industry.
I want us to have the best, brightest leaders who are fully engaged, who aren't looking out
the window during staff meeting and saying, ah, I can't wait for the weekend.
You know, I want us all fully engaged.
We're going to have better service delivery for the public and better outcomes for our
employees and the people that use our services if we're operating.
So that's what the book is about.
Well, thanks so much for being on That Transit Show.
It's great to meet you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Likewise.
Give a call out to Ric, your CEO, Ric Ilgenfritz.
Great guy.
Great program you all have up there.
I think you are one of the best operating companies in America.
And I wish you the best as you continue to spread the gospel about transit there.
Thanks, Paul.
Really appreciate it.
This has been That Transit Show from Community Transit.
Be sure to subscribe and follow That Transit Show and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Monica Spain.
Thanks for being here.
We'll see you at our next stop.