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Interviews with top marketers sharing tactical tips, strategies, and lessons learned to help you grow your business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt, founder of Exit Five, former CMO, and author of Founder Brand. Learn more at exitfive.com
Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt Show.
Dasha [0:00:17]: Hey.
Dasha [0:00:17]: The conversation you're about to listen to is one that was recorded live in Vermont for Exit Five Drive event.
Dasha [0:00:23]: I Sat Allen with Colin Kendall.
Dasha [0:00:26]: He's the CMO of SC&H.
Dasha [0:00:28]: They are a consulting and financial services company that is entirely employee owned.
Dasha [0:00:34]: And if you are a frequent listener of the show, you'll know that a lot of the guests that we have on the market in D Saas.
Dasha [0:00:41]: So I was extra excited to record with Colin to figure out what actually happens when you're not sling Saas and you're selling expertise instead.
Dasha [0:00:51]: We talk about what has worked for Collins team in twenty twenty six.
Dasha [0:00:55]: How they get their sneeze on stage at events and bets that him and his team are making for twenty twenty seven.
Dasha [0:01:03]: I hope you enjoy the conversation.
Dasha [0:01:05]: Enjoy.
Dasha [0:01:06]: We're rolling.
Dasha [0:01:07]: Heads up I'm with Colin Kendall.
Dasha [0:01:09]: First, I love a person with two first names.
Colin [0:01:13]: Yes.
Colin [0:01:13]: Kendall, I...
Colin [0:01:14]: I there was a friend of mine who had a a sister named Kendall.
Colin [0:01:17]: Yeah.
Colin [0:01:17]: Growing up, and they everyone always show up the way we get married and her name would be Kendall Kendall.
Dasha [0:01:21]: But it an, did not happen.
Colin [0:01:23]: No No.
Colin [0:01:23]: I met someone different, but, you know, would have been pretty funny.
Dasha [0:01:26]: They also know of.
Dasha [0:01:27]: Redundancy.
Dasha [0:01:28]: K.
Dasha [0:01:28]: Introduce yourself, Colin Kendall
Colin [0:01:31]: Kendall, chief Marketing officer, S and H, consulting and financial services firm.
Colin [0:01:35]: Kind of professional services.
Colin [0:01:36]: It's like a more boutique deloitte.
Dasha [0:01:39]: Just put down deloitte a little bit.
Dasha [0:01:40]: Like, we're deloitte, but, like, cute and small.
Colin [0:01:43]: Yeah.
Colin [0:01:43]: You know, like we're, like, hands on, like, we care about what we're doing.
Colin [0:01:46]: Yeah.
Colin [0:01:46]: No like No shade to deloitte.
Colin [0:01:48]: Gotcha.
Colin [0:01:48]: This is great.
Colin [0:01:49]: It's not gonna go over very well for them.
Colin [0:01:52]: No.
Colin [0:01:52]: It great.
Colin [0:01:52]: They do really good work, but it's kind of a cool model just because we have...
Colin [0:01:57]: We do compete with them in some services, But we're also, we rely on a lot of their recruitment, their development, like, their training.
Colin [0:02:04]: Yep.
Colin [0:02:05]: Because a lot of people will come from deloitte P.
Colin [0:02:07]: They'll come from a big four firm, which they do great work.
Colin [0:02:10]: Obviously, their growth is incredible, but it's a grind.
Colin [0:02:13]: And so SC&H is a firm where we can offer a little bit more of a work life balance.
Colin [0:02:18]: It's still a very much work hard environment, but it's a very good culture.
Colin [0:02:22]: It feels a little bit, like a family owned business, but it's actually an employee owned business.
Colin [0:02:26]: Oh my cool.
Colin [0:02:26]: We're in Es, so it's incredibly rare in the...
Colin [0:02:29]: We're still kind identifying the accounting space.
Colin [0:02:31]: So I think in the top one hundred accounting firms.
Colin [0:02:33]: We're in that.
Colin [0:02:35]: I think there's like one or two their es ups.
Dasha [0:02:37]: Cool.
Dasha [0:02:37]: A lot
Colin [0:02:38]: of them I feel like a huge drop.
Colin [0:02:39]: Especially in today's day age where private equity is taking over.
Colin [0:02:44]: Yeah.
Colin [0:02:44]: Space.
Colin [0:02:44]: So it's definitely a unique piece, but you know, it also has its uphill battles and challenges that we have to deal with, but it helps make a really good culture and give everyone a little bit more purpose.
Dasha [0:02:54]: We met last year at Drive?
Colin [0:02:56]: Yes.
Dasha [0:02:56]: Was that your second Driver or your first Drive
Colin [0:02:57]: First Drive?
Dasha [0:02:58]: Okay.
Dasha [0:02:58]: So this is your second Drive?
Dasha [0:02:59]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:02:59]: What brought you back to Drive this year?
Colin [0:03:01]: I tell people all the time.
Colin [0:03:02]: Drive was easily the best B2B marketing conference Ever attended.
Colin [0:03:05]: I've been to a lot.
Colin [0:03:07]: I was at an agency for seven years before SC&H.
Colin [0:03:10]: I've been in S for nine and a half.
Colin [0:03:11]: So I've seen a lot, and I think the Drive did a really good job at marrying really good speakers.
Colin [0:03:16]: Who have notoriety and have a little bit of cache and fame to them, but then you come to Drive and they're so approachable.
Colin [0:03:23]: Their takeaways are very actionable.
Colin [0:03:25]: It's not...
Colin [0:03:26]: It wasn't pie in the sky stuff.
Dasha [0:03:28]: Right.
Colin [0:03:28]: You could really get back to the team and The other part of it was, I bring it back to the team and a team that also follows Exit Five.
Dasha [0:03:35]: Right.
Colin [0:03:35]: So it was a lot.
Colin [0:03:36]: Like, they were excited to hear what happened.
Colin [0:03:38]: And then just met awesome people, including yourself.
Colin [0:03:41]: Stuff.
Colin [0:03:42]: And now here we are.
Colin [0:03:43]: One year later.
Colin [0:03:43]: Right?
Colin [0:03:44]: You're hosting pod.
Colin [0:03:45]: I'm joining you on it.
Colin [0:03:46]: So it's crazy what happens when you just meet really good people that like to do really good marketing, and it was just sort, like in an an infectious environment.
Colin [0:03:53]: So also we're in s.
Colin [0:03:55]: It's beautiful.
Dasha [0:03:56]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:03:56]: Not a bad.
Dasha [0:03:57]: First time podcasting is outside.
Dasha [0:03:58]: I would imagine.
Colin [0:03:59]: Definitely.
Colin [0:03:59]: Yeah.
Colin [0:04:00]: Yeah.
Colin [0:04:00]: I'm usually, I'm more of an indoor podcast.
Colin [0:04:01]: Cat.
Colin [0:04:02]: Yeah.
Colin [0:04:02]: Yeah.
Colin [0:04:03]: This is my my outdoor.
Dasha [0:04:04]: Yeah.
Colin [0:04:05]: Can't
Dasha [0:04:06]: but Colin actually on a leash right now?
Colin [0:04:08]: Yes.
Colin [0:04:08]: Yes.
Colin [0:04:09]: There's a little bowl of of milk next to Natasha.
Dasha [0:04:13]: Okay.
Dasha [0:04:13]: What is the CMO like yourself?
Dasha [0:04:15]: When you reflect back on twenty six, everything you've done and your team's done so far this year?
Dasha [0:04:19]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:04:19]: What is...
Dasha [0:04:20]: Would you say is the team's biggest win?
Dasha [0:04:22]: You're biggest win?
Colin [0:04:23]: Our growth as a team is a very easy one, and one that at an organization, like, professional services, like, a marketing team, it's tough.
Colin [0:04:30]: You can be seen as a call center, you can be seen as overhead, but we've done a phenomenal job at building a team that really cares about marketing, really passionate and spent so much time with customers with clients, and with our subject matter experts getting in the minds of clients, And the biggest win for this year is translating that into revenue from events.
Colin [0:04:50]: We've really leaned in over the past few years, particularly since Covid.
Colin [0:04:53]: Once events started coming back, we've really been doubling down on that.
Colin [0:04:58]: And it's been something that each year we've been able to attribute a lot of revenue to those events.
Colin [0:05:03]: It's an investment in time.
Colin [0:05:04]: It's an investment in resources, but what's been really effective for us is we've been able to take, go beyond just the sponsorship.
Colin [0:05:10]: How do you make sure that you get your people an opportunity to speak at these events.
Dasha [0:05:15]: Yeah.
Colin [0:05:15]: And a lot of our events, a lot of the the ones we attend are more of like, the decision makers and finance, And they start to stack these events, and they start to really...
Colin [0:05:24]: Just like the way you guys do it.
Colin [0:05:25]: You start to have people that are speaking at multiple different events in front of similar crowds, different Right.
Colin [0:05:30]: Different people, but you start to accumulate a lot of credibility and a lot of thought leadership.
Colin [0:05:34]: And so what we found is that has helped to really create more of a magnet at the booth more of a magnet in our events.
Colin [0:05:41]: And I think that we are very scrappy and how we approach that.
Colin [0:05:45]: And so where it used to be, you you sponsor an event, you have an exhibit booth.
Colin [0:05:49]: People stop by, You just hope that the right person.
Dasha [0:05:51]: Stop you
Colin [0:05:52]: start to have speaking events.
Colin [0:05:53]: You start to have events with clients and prospects.
Colin [0:05:55]: And next thing you know you have four to five touch points with folks that never knew you before that are now seeing you at an event in February seeing an event in March.
Colin [0:06:04]: And what's been great is the team has done a really great job at being able to take that speaking event that content we're creating for it.
Colin [0:06:11]: And then repurpose it and distribute it after the fact.
Colin [0:06:14]: So it gives you a little bit more purpose, a little bit more meaning, and it's not just a one off event.
Colin [0:06:18]: It can really start to layer on it and create an experience where for a firm like SC&H where we're not a household name, we really have to fight tooth and nail to establish a brand and to become memorable.
Colin [0:06:30]: And so when you start to see that really big companies are starting to include us in Rfp, they're starting to reach out to us directly, they're starting to connect with our thought leaders on Linkedin, that's big for us.
Colin [0:06:42]: Whether we win that first opportunity or not, it's something where the S and H brand continues to grow.
Colin [0:06:48]: And for my team to be able to see the revenue dollars that come in because of that, it's huge for confidence, it's huge for you know, inspiring, what do we do next to really kind of build on that campaign or or build on that that experience that event?
Dasha [0:07:01]: Brand has been such a big topic of conversation at this conference specifically.
Dasha [0:07:05]: I feel like, that's, like, the biggest thing that I've noticed from last year to this year is how many more marketers are talking about brand and I think part of that comes from the explosion of Ai and Ai slot.
Dasha [0:07:15]: For someone watching or listening who's, like, you know, I wanna get my CEO or my thought leader on stage at an event?
Dasha [0:07:21]: And maybe we're not, like, a household name?
Colin [0:07:23]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:07:24]: What tactical advice do you have?
Dasha [0:07:26]: How do you get someone from your company to be seen as a credible thought leader and a potential speaker for an event.
Colin [0:07:31]: I think the biggest thing that has worked for us is Really working with those thought leaders to help them embrace the power of social media, the power of Linkedin.
Colin [0:07:40]: I mean, it and you need to be where your audience is, but we've really found a lot of success and resonance and impact on Linkedin.
Colin [0:07:47]: And it's not a walk in the park.
Colin [0:07:49]: Clay had a really good article that came out in the past couple days that talked about how much they're investing in personal branding.
Colin [0:07:56]: And executives, folks that are out in front of clients, they don't always have time, even if they're really good at it and have a really good way with words, they don't always have time to invest in.
Colin [0:08:05]: But once they start to see their colleagues have success, once they start to see others really get out there.
Colin [0:08:12]: Oh, boy.
Colin [0:08:13]: Hold the tent.
Colin [0:08:14]: Dominic.
Colin [0:08:15]: Hopefully, you can still
Dasha [0:08:17]: hear, The audio is the...
Dasha [0:08:19]: As long as you're here, and we don't blow away.
Dasha [0:08:21]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:08:21]: The show will go on.
Colin [0:08:22]: Okay.
Colin [0:08:22]: Alright.
Colin [0:08:22]: Well, you know, like, twister three here on the on the patio.
Colin [0:08:26]: I think it's really powerful when you start to see your colleagues have success.
Colin [0:08:29]: And everyone likes to feel, like, what they're doing and what they're saying is making an impact.
Colin [0:08:34]: Seth God said it yesterday, Like, people like us do things like this.
Colin [0:08:39]: Mh.
Colin [0:08:39]: And when you see others, it becomes really infectious.
Colin [0:08:42]: But it's not easy.
Colin [0:08:43]: Kudos to my team, they spend a lot of time with people what we call like our service lines, our practices.
Colin [0:08:48]: They spend a lot of time with the leaders of those practices, understanding who within their practice has a really good point of view has a really good perspective and we'll put themselves out there.
Colin [0:08:57]: And sometimes that's the leader of the practice.
Colin [0:08:59]: And sometimes it's a first or second year employee.
Colin [0:09:02]: And so that kinda goes into the Ai slot, and it goes into the fact that you really do need to have a point of view.
Colin [0:09:08]: You need to have a perspective and a take.
Colin [0:09:10]: And it's not always gonna be unique, but it needs to be uniquely yours.
Colin [0:09:13]: I mean it needs to have your voice, and I think what has been really cool to share for our organization is I've seen the pendulum swing on Ai.
Colin [0:09:22]: At first, it was like, oh my God.
Colin [0:09:24]: It's the greatest thing since sliced brad.
Colin [0:09:25]: Yeah.
Colin [0:09:25]: I'm not a writer.
Colin [0:09:26]: I don't need to be a writer because I can just put into Claude and I sound brilliant.
Dasha [0:09:30]: Yeah.
Colin [0:09:30]: But then you start to see everyone else putting the exact same things out there.
Dasha [0:09:33]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:09:33]: Every single post starts with and honestly.
Colin [0:09:37]: Every single.
Dasha [0:09:38]: Single one.
Colin [0:09:39]: And unfortunately, folks that use really good grammar being crucified because
Dasha [0:09:43]: Yeah.
Colin [0:09:44]: Claude and and all the Ai use really good grammar.
Dasha [0:09:46]: I'm literally wearing a bracelet that says m dash forever.
Colin [0:09:49]: There you go.
Colin [0:09:50]: See you're you're an M dash o g.
Colin [0:09:51]: And, unfortunately, those of us who who know that you use those appropriately.
Colin [0:09:56]: We're getting dragged a little bit.
Colin [0:09:58]: But, yeah, it's been cool to see folks figure out how to use it, but not have it become you.
Colin [0:10:04]: Yeah.
Colin [0:10:05]: And use it as an advantage.
Colin [0:10:06]: And so our organization and my team has been really grateful for this is we've leaned in and we embraced using Ai to help us but we were not believers that it was going to just be the end all be all.
Colin [0:10:16]: And I think that those of us that really stood strong and embraced that mentality have benefited from that.
Colin [0:10:22]: So it'll be interesting to see what happens next.
Colin [0:10:24]: But events getting people out there.
Colin [0:10:27]: In order to get those speaking experiences in those engagements, you need to have something out there.
Colin [0:10:33]: Yeah.
Colin [0:10:34]: And your Linkedin profile is just one of the most approachable easiest ways to get started.
Colin [0:10:38]: I feel like it's the modern day blog.
Colin [0:10:41]: Right?
Colin [0:10:41]: Like, you everyone had a personal blog.
Colin [0:10:43]: People have subs now things like that.
Colin [0:10:45]: But you need something that you own and that when folks are seeking out expertise like yours, you're one of the first people to come to mind.
Colin [0:10:52]: And then you build partnerships, you build connections, you you network, and next thing you know, you're the one that is being referred into these opportunities because of what you've been, you know, comfortable putting out there.
Dasha [0:11:04]: It's a slow drip too.
Dasha [0:11:05]: Like, it's not overnight.
Dasha [0:11:06]: I found our company, our CEO's name is Ben, and we have this hashtag scale bench initiative, which is, like, scaling his likeness.
Dasha [0:11:13]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:11:13]: Because he's known in the space that we sell into.
Dasha [0:11:16]: So he's credible, but he doesn't always have time to post, but he has opinions and he shares them all the time, but he might not think to share them specifically on, but I'll share them on Slack.
Dasha [0:11:24]: Like, last week, he shared something in our hashtag random Slack channel.
Dasha [0:11:28]: Yeah I pointed by Claude agent towards it, and I said, hey, Can you just turn this exact thought in his words into a linkedin post.
Dasha [0:11:35]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:11:36]: And it was live the next day.
Dasha [0:11:37]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:11:38]: The folks say your company, They have opinions.
Dasha [0:11:39]: They just are not always thinking.
Dasha [0:11:41]: Like, they're not marketers.
Dasha [0:11:42]: They're not thinking, oh, this opinion, like, let me post that on Linkedin, but that's our job is to say, like, oh, this thought.
Dasha [0:11:48]: Like, let me just package it up.
Dasha [0:11:49]: And get it out there.
Dasha [0:11:51]: Yeah Okay.
Dasha [0:11:52]: Before we run to our next session, Yes.
Dasha [0:11:53]: What are you betting on in twenty twenty seven?
Colin [0:11:58]: Perfect transition, I I am betting on employee advocacy and personal branding for our leaders.
Colin [0:12:02]: We absolutely took a step in the right direction.
Colin [0:12:06]: And by the way, this is not like, a, I'm putting myself out there on some crazy bet.
Colin [0:12:10]: But in our world, it is still something that is a little bit less familiar and comfortable.
Colin [0:12:16]: Mh.
Colin [0:12:16]: Obviously, in the marketing, I think we we all understand and we all are comfortable we're putting ourselves out.
Colin [0:12:21]: We're thinking like marketers, but we are still seeing a lot of people embracing it, adopting it and what we're gonna do next year is make bigger bets.
Colin [0:12:29]: Not just in the time that we're spending and the budget that we're spending, but how we're helping them put themselves out there.
Colin [0:12:35]: But one of the things that we really believe very strongly is that we need it to be theirs.
Colin [0:12:39]: How can we help you gain confidence, inspire you come up with ideas but you have to be the one that's crafting this.
Colin [0:12:47]: Because when folks meet you in person, you want to make sure that the online persona matches the in real life persona.
Dasha [0:12:54]: Totally.
Colin [0:12:54]: And figuring out how you make it easier for thought leaders that are strapped for time, is something that is just not a a perfect science, but the more that we can invest in time in training and in dollars.
Colin [0:13:05]: That's a bet that we're gonna make next year because that's gonna lead to more speaking events.
Colin [0:13:10]: It's gonna lead to more prospects and clients knowing who we are.
Colin [0:13:13]: And also, it's gonna help with clients understanding, like, and being proud of the people that they're working with and understanding their perspective and that it transcend just their engagement.
Colin [0:13:22]: And I think that that's something that we're gonna double down on and triple down on next year and think we could take a lot of playbook from the Exit Five team too.
Colin [0:13:30]: Right?
Colin [0:13:30]: Like, what you guys are doing right now.
Colin [0:13:31]: I know you're not on the Exit Five team, but, like, you are absolutely an extension in the face of that in some ways now, but the challenge that they're going through to really, like, become more comfortable putting some...
Colin [0:13:43]: Themselves out there and being the thought leaders they are.
Colin [0:13:46]: That's what I wanna see us c in Do.
Dasha [0:13:48]: Yes.
Dasha [0:13:48]: If you're listening and you don't know what Colin talking about, the Exit Five team currently has this competition called the Claude competition or Claude cup, Everyone's encouraged to post, And then there's gonna be a winner.
Dasha [0:13:59]: Yep.
Dasha [0:14:00]: And that winner is determined based on who grows their following by the highest percentage.
Dasha [0:14:04]: So it's fun, and everyone is Yeah.
Dasha [0:14:07]: Think...
Dasha [0:14:07]: Making things a competition.
Dasha [0:14:08]: I feel like has marketers were, like, kind of, like, all competitive.
Dasha [0:14:11]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:14:11]: So if you can tap into that.
Colin [0:14:13]: If you can ga it
Dasha [0:14:14]: it just like that yes.
Colin [0:14:16]: Everyone, it just...
Colin [0:14:16]: It kinda gets the juices flowing a little bit.
Dasha [0:14:19]: Right.
Dasha [0:14:19]: You
Colin [0:14:19]: know?
Colin [0:14:19]: And I think that it is some friendly competition at the end of the day, like, we all win.
Colin [0:14:23]: Kind Right.
Colin [0:14:23]: Everyone will win in that.
Colin [0:14:25]: Yeah.
Colin [0:14:25]: That's the...
Colin [0:14:25]: No matter who picks home the Claude cup.
Colin [0:14:27]: Everyone's following is growing, and And they're helping to kinda grow the overall brand and that's the name of the game.
Dasha [0:14:34]: Love it.
Dasha [0:14:34]: Cool.
Dasha [0:14:34]: Well, thanks for coming on the show.
Dasha [0:14:36]: I wish we had more.
Dasha [0:14:36]: I feel like I can talk to you forever.
Dasha [0:14:38]: I was telling you off offline.
Colin [0:14:39]: Yeah.
Dasha [0:14:39]: I love seeing you at events.
Dasha [0:14:40]: Ironically, we talk the least about marketing at events because you would just have, like, such a great personality, and I can talk to you forever forever.
Colin [0:14:48]: At right back at you.
Colin [0:14:48]: This was fun.
Colin [0:14:49]: Thanks for inviting me on.
Colin [0:14:50]: And m dash forever.
Dasha [0:14:52]: And dash forever.
Colin [0:14:53]: Alright.
Colin [0:14:53]: Thanks.
Dasha [0:14:54]: And that's a wrap.
Dasha [0:14:58]: Hey.
Dasha [0:14:58]: Thanks for listening to this podcast.
Dasha [0:15:00]: If you like this episode.
Dasha [0:15:01]: Do you know what?
Dasha [0:15:02]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.
Dasha [0:15:06]: I have something better for you.
Dasha [0:15:07]: So we've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating a review.
Dasha [0:15:15]: Go check it out right now.
Dasha [0:15:17]: On our website, exitfive.com.
Dasha [0:15:19]: Our mission at Exit Five is to help you grow your career in B2b marketing, and there's no better place to do that than with us at Exit Five.
Dasha [0:15:26]: There's nearly five thousand members now in our community, People are in their posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so to have a peer group, or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest.
Dasha [0:15:47]: It's a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free, and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year.
Dasha [0:15:56]: Go check it out, learn more, exitfive.com, and I will see you over there in the community.