# 166 AI agent focus groups are the future of marketing

Show Notes

I sat down with Justin Brooke, a 20-year advertising veteran who turned a $60 Google Ads campaign into a seven-figure agency — and then built an AI-powered prediction system that has since generated $260,000 for him personally. In this episode, Justin walks through his "predictive wear" framework: a multi-agent workflow that runs your ad copy and sales pages through a synthetic focus group of 13 detailed AI personas before a single dollar is spent on ads. We break down how the workflow is built in Mind Studio, why persona quality makes or breaks accuracy, and how Harvard, Stanford, and the New York Times have all validated this exact approach. By the end of this episode, you'll understand why running your marketing through a virtual focus group before it goes out the door may be the single highest-ROI move you can make right now.

Timestamps
03:29 – What "predictive wear" is and why Justin built it
05:00 – Why you need multiple personas, not just one
08:00 – How the 13-persona focus group workflow runs
09:00 – The prediction engine: picking the winning ad variation
10:00 – Harvard, Stanford, and the New York Times validate the method
13:15 – The ROI: $260K personally, 4 to 6X ROAS for clients
19:00 – What makes a persona accurate: the 1,400-word dossier
24:04 – The copywriter prompt and "embody" vs. "pretend to be"
33:00 – Sales page version: PDF upload and yes/no buyer scoring
41:00 – Why some personas are successful and others are struggling
45:00 – A $36,000 offer launched using this exact process
48:00 – Final advice: do the work on the persona quality

Key Points

The old way of advertising is learning by spending money — you write copy, run ads, and find out if it works after the budget is gone. Justin's predictive wear system flips this by running copy through a synthetic focus group of 13 AI personas before any ad spend, so you know what will convert before you go live.

Harvard, Stanford, and the New York Times have all independently validated this approach. The New York Times uses the same synthetic audience process to test headlines and found 92% accuracy compared to their human focus groups — meaning this is not a fringe experiment, it is becoming standard practice for major publishers and brands.

The cost is 13 to 20 cents per run. A top 1% copywriter charges $100 to $500 per ad. Justin's workflow produces three optimized variations in about 10 minutes for 13 cents, performs at or near the level of the best human copywriters for most use cases, and allows unlimited iteration — you run it until the copy converts.

The system is also a copywriting trainer. Even with 20 years of experience, Justin says the feedback regularly surfaces blind spots and teaches him better approaches.

Anyone can use this, not just expert copywriters. Because the workflow takes whatever you input — even a bad ad — and improves it based on real persona feedback, non-copywriters like a front-desk employee or a local business owner can now produce top-10% ad copy without prior training.

Join the Build With AI community built for non-technical entrepreneurs: https://www.skool.com/buildwithai/about

If this episode was valuable to you, it would mean a lot if you left a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps more entrepreneurs find the show.

FIND ME ON SOCIAL
X/Twitter: https://x.com/coreyganim
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coreyganim/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreyganim/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@coreyganim

FIND JUSTIN ON SOCIAL
https://x.com/IMJustinBrooke
Website: https://adskills.com

What is Build With AI?

Most AI podcasts talk about what's possible. Build With AI shows you how it's done, live. Each episode, host Corey Ganim brings on entrepreneurs and operators who share their screen and build real AI automations, workflows, and tool setups right in front of you. No boring slides. Nothing that hasn't been battle-tested. You'll watch actual implementations get built from scratch so you can follow along and do the same in your business. If you're a non-technical entrepreneur who wants to put AI to work without becoming a developer, hit play and build along with us.

Corey Ganim: Justin Brooke, what are we building today?

Justin Brooke: Hey man, ⁓ I've got a couple of prediction agents. I call them predictive wear. That's kind of how I sell them. But ⁓ I believe that this is the way people are going to be doing marketing in the future. Just like we all put tracking on our ads or our marketing. We want to track how many conversions, how many clicks we're getting. I believe this is going to be the beginning step of marketing. And I'm calling it prediction wear. So we can jump into those whenever you're ready.

Corey Ganim: And I've seen behind the scenes of these things and like they're crazy. So I'm going to go ahead and preface this by saying, this is one of those episodes you're going to want to rewatch two or three times. And I think people are going to get a ton out of this. So before you jump into your screen and kind of break down the whole thing for us, why don't you just give us your quick background? Like, why should people listen to you? I know you've got a ton of experience, but kind of tell us, us what that is.

Justin Brooke: Sure. Yeah. I've been doing this online business thing for 20 years since before it was cool, you know, um, but classically I'm a marketer. I'm I'm an advertiser specifically. got my start with Google ads back in 2007. turned a pathetic $2 a day Google ad campaign. Uh, was 60 bucks and I, didn't even, I couldn't even afford that. I had to pay half my electric bill to have this $60. Talk about a gamble. And, uh, but I, my, mentor was Russell Brunson, who's now the big founder of ClickFunnels. And he was still a millionaire back then. Not like a hundred millionaires, you know, is now or whatever he's at. Um, anyway, so I learned from him, I was an intern and I got to, I got the education of a lifetime there as an intern. And, uh, one of the things I learned while I was interning with him was Google ads. And, uh, That kind of changed my life because I always thought advertising was like magazines and radio and TV. was like call people, had to wear suits, you had to ask permission. It was just like this hard thing. And then Google ads comes around and it's like, holy crap, I can tell the world about my product for just five dollars a day in my underwear. And I don't have to ask anybody permission to do anything. I could just put my ads on people's sites. It was it was amazing.

Corey Ganim: Yeah.

Justin Brooke: So got started a long, long time ago, turned that $2 a day campaign, 60 bucks a month, turned that literally into six figures. I doubled my money every month for 11 months in a row, turned that into six figures, kind of became a traffic guy. People kept asking, how are you doing this? How are you getting traffic to your websites? Built an agency, the agency did seven figures. ⁓ I got sick and tired of ⁓ doing client work. I was traveling around the world. And, ⁓ I decided I was going to start a certification. You know, I spoke, I spoke all over the world. I traveled all over the world. I've been on over 30 different podcasts, but it did really, really well in the advertising space and then started a course. think some people are doing it the other way around. Yeah. They start a course and then they like become an expert, you know? ⁓ and so I started certifying and helping other agencies have their come up and,

Corey Ganim: The opposite. practitioner.

Justin Brooke: So that's who I am. Justin brooke from ad skills.com. I've trained tens of thousands of advertisers. And that's why my agents are related to advertising and sales pages. Cause that's kind of, when I look at AI, that's how I think about AI.

Corey Ganim: Right. And I love that you've been around the block more times than one. And that's what I love about the agents that you build and that you're going to show us today is that these are like direct ROI producing agents and automation. So let's get into it. Whenever you're ready, just share your screen and kind of jump in and see behind the scenes.

Justin Brooke: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, all right. I'm more used to using Zoom, so bear with me on here. Let's see. Go. Okay, we'll start with this tab here. Okay, so this is the first one that I started with. And I wanted to start on this screen. We'll dive deeper. I know we normally build stuff. I'm just gonna kind of reverse engineer stuff today. That way you guys can build it how you want. I wanted you guys to see this screen so you could see the average run cost and the average run time. Like when you see what this thing does. Remember what the average run cost is because the ROI is just bananas. Like I don't, I don't even want to do the number because it would just be, you know, the scene number, but essentially the way that I think about marketing, you know, is we want to, we want to have a persona, you know, today you guys call it an ICP ideal client profile. And we want to, we want to run ads. against that persona on Facebook or whatever. So we're going to take ad copy. We're going to drive it with Facebook ads to people that match our persona with whatever targeting. And then it's going to do good or it's not going to do good. And then we're going to kind of write variations of it and we're going to do it again. You know, that's advertising one on one. That is the, I believe the old way, you know, the, the, slow expensive way where you have to You're learning by spending money. You know, it's very expensive to test ads, right? And so with what I created, it was like, okay, well, if that's what we're doing, right? We want to run ad copy to people. We want to get feedback. We want to make it better. Well, AI is specifically designed to pretend to be a person, right? That's why we all say, you know, you are a copywriter or you are a blog writer, an SEO, like we tell it to pretend to be a certain type of person. Well, I'm just telling it to pretend to be my customer. And I started with one and then I met a guy named Raj who's amazing, Raj Jha. And he's amazing. He's a super mathematician, big business, had many different exits. Anyways, he clued me in.

Corey Ganim: Yep. Right.

Justin Brooke: to the math of why we need to have multiple personas, which was crazy to me. Because listen guys, I've got a, you know, it's a hard tattoo to show off on camera, but I've got a tattoo on my arm of an ink, of a pen, a quill, an ink and cash. Like that's how diehard copywriter I am. I've got copywriting books on the shelf back here, diehard copywriter. And in all of the copywriting, all of the sales books, tells you one.

Corey Ganim: love that.

Justin Brooke: persona, one ideal client profile. You should never have more than one. But when he broke it down, a 20 year veteran, copywriter and advertiser submitted. I was like, ⁓ you know what? You're actually right. The math is math in here. And so we were at an event together and I think that was the best way to describe it. As I said, guys, look around the room here, right? We got men and women. got young and old. got local business owners, software guy. There was a There was a pharmacy guy in the room, you know, it's like, but we all are in business and we all follow that one same guy, right? I mean, that's the same way we would target our Facebook ads. We're business owners, we're fans of this thing, and so we should target those people and run ads. Well.

Corey Ganim: Yeah, yep. Mm-hmm.

Justin Brooke: That's multiple personas. so essentially what this agent does to kind of be done with the preface and what this agent does is we're going to put ad copy in at the user input level. I'm going break it down. I'm going show you the prompts here in a minute, but we're going to put ad copy in at the user input levels. Just a simple little form. You just paste in your ad copy. Then that ad copy is going to get passed around to all these different personas, ideal client profiles. and they're going to give us feedback. There's specific questions that they're supposed to answer to give us feedback about our ad. And then when all that feedback is done, it's sent to the copywriter. The copywriter then looks at all the feedback and the original ad and says, ⁓ okay, we should rewrite it like this. And I've given the copywriter some proven ad formulas. And so it writes three different new variations based on the feedback. And then finally, the last step that I do is I got this little prediction engine in here. This is a little bit of math that we do to kind of score which one of those variations. Cause I was like, all right, well, man, I got three variations. That's great. How do I know which one of these variations I'm going to run? ⁓ I could split test all three of them, but I would like to save more money. And so created kind of an algorithm that chooses which one of those variations I should run. based on all known best practices, based on the feedback, based on copywriting, blah, blah. And so it chooses, so it essentially says, all right, this one has an 84 % likelihood to convert. And when I first created this, people were like, there's no way that works because people just don't, they don't understand how the LLMs work and how they're designed for this. They don't understand my context of advertising. Like I've been doing this 20 years. I've read hundreds of books on this topic spoken all over the world. And so I can create a tool that can very accurately pick it. Well, since me building this and people thinking I'm just creating, you know, this is fairy tales and whatever. Harvard has come out with studies that show that this is accurate. Stanford has come out with studies that show this is accurate. The New York Times is using this and they found it to be 92 % accurate to their human focus groups. like. when they wanna test headlines or should they run this article or that article, they use the same process. I called it a virtual focus group, they call it a synthetic audience, it's the same thing. We're running it to AI-based audiences, personas, and we're getting feedback. And instead of the normal way you do marketing and sales is you build something, push it out with ads and a bunch of marketing, see if it converts or not. you you waste a bunch of money. Now we get the feedback virtually before we send it out the door. That's why I said, I believe this is going to be the way we do marketing in the future. We're going to use a prediction thing. Then we do our marketing. Then we do our tracking of our marketing, you know? So, all right, let's, let's dive into it. So that's what it does. Yeah. Yeah.

Corey Ganim: And so Justin, can I just like take a second to kind of like break this down? Because I like what you're saying, I think is truly the next iteration of marketing. Like what you're showing us now, like we're still in the early stages of this here very soon. This is going to be the way anybody who markets a product or service online or even physically, like this is going to be the process. And I want people to understand just truly how impactful what you're showing us is. Because I'll be honest, when you first demoed this at the event a couple months ago, when I met you, it took me like a couple hours for this to sink in. Like you do a really good job of simplifying and I'm breaking it down. But even at first I was like, it took me a couple hours to kind of grab, wrap my head around what you were saying. So for the folks in the audience, what Justin is saying is that in the old world, you write marketing copy and you send it out to your list and maybe you convert some people, maybe you don't. Right. You kind of look back exactly. Yeah, it's, was, it was back. It was reactive, but what you're saying, what you're about to show us is this agent, this workflow, instead of just using your copy and shooting your shot, you're, you're taking your piece of marketing and you are basically testing it in front of an AI focus group here, 13 different personas, which I'm sure are all slight variations of your ICP. And these little individual AI people are essentially saying.

Justin Brooke: But now you've already shot your shot.

Corey Ganim: Yes, Justin, I would buy that or no, Justin, I would not buy that. And here's why. then once it gets to the end of the line, your copywriter agent at the end of the line basically takes all of the responses from your little individual AI people and says, okay, now we're going to rewrite the copy so that it appeals to more of those people. Maybe only two out of those 13 people were going to buy. So let's tweak the copy so that, you know, seven or eight or 10 out of those people are going to buy. And then you keep rerunning it through that. AI focus group until you've got a, a statistically significant, ⁓ chance of your copy converting. And then that is the final copy that you then put into production and send to your list. And am I understanding that correctly?

Justin Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. So this is the one for ads, but I have another version of it. We're going to show the second version that is for like full on sales pages, you know, webinars, scripts, whatever. Yeah. So, but yeah, that's exactly it. Yep.

Corey Ganim: like direct response. Okay. And so, and so, and I don't want to like spoil the surprise, but what are the, like, give us the math here. Like, what is the ROI? Like, is this something where it's like, ⁓ yeah, it's cool. Like it sounds cool in theory, or is this something it's like, no, I have genuinely made X amount more money because of this system.

Justin Brooke: I am at about $260,000 personally that I have made off of this, but everybody thinks, yeah, yeah, yeah. but people sometimes think, ⁓ well, you've got 20 years experience and blah, blah, blah. You've got some kind of magical powers that I'm not gonna have, you know? And so I've since I've sold this to clients. I've sold this to customers. We've got a group where I sell like the pre-made stuff and they just get my.

Corey Ganim: I love it. And I knew that was the answer. That's why I asked.

Justin Brooke: Every agent I make, get my agents kind of thing. Well, those people have started using it and I'm more interested in their results because now it's other people who don't have my level of experience using them. And so we've had crazy case studies. There's a wild case study where a guy, he got like 16 to 19 % or 16 X ROAS back on his ads, but.

Corey Ganim: Cheers.

Justin Brooke: It's a wild outlier. You know, we're seeing more like 4 to 6X ROAS. So for every $1 you put in, you're making 4 to 6 back.

Corey Ganim: That's still really good. And then, and one other thing I will say before Justin kind of goes through this and shows us this in action. So Justin and I are actually going to be hosting an in-person workshop April of this year. So April of 2026, we're going to come out with the exact dates here soon, but we're going to be hosting a two day in-person workshop, small group where entrepreneurs, small business owners are going to come to the workshop and we are going to build these agents and these AI powered marketing workflows alongside you. at this workshop so that Justin correct me if I'm wrong, but folks are going to leave that workshop with their own version of what you're about to show us. Is that correct?

Justin Brooke: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. It's not going to be one of those ones where you go and you just sit there and watch somebody talk. You need to bring your laptop. We're going to be transferring files. We're going to be writing prompts. We're going to be doing work and you're going to leave with actual things installed on your computer that you can go use in your business.

Corey Ganim: And like take notes. Yeah. Yes. And so for, for anybody that's interested in ⁓ attending that we're going to put a link in the description of the YouTube video and in the show notes, if you're listening on a podcast platform for the wait list for that event. So if you are even remotely interested, get on that wait list and we will communicate with you as far as exact dates and times of that event. I.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, it's an in-person, so there's a limited amount of seats. You know, there's only so much room in the house.

Corey Ganim: Exactly. Yep. So please continue, Justin. This is awesome.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, yeah. All right. So it starts now there's this, by the way, I use mine studio. You could do the same thing in N8n or make, you know, I just like mine studio because they give me access to all the models and I don't have to go get my own APIs and all that stuff. Right. So ⁓ they have multiple different trigger types in here. I could have this trigger off of the, can make a schedule or as a browser extension, email, web hook, telegram message. I can trigger it in many different ways. For me, on this one, I just like it to trigger on demand. just, you I wanna click run and then it runs, right? So I open it up, I click run, and then I'm presented with a little form. And this form just, it's, let me see, I wonder how I would be able to show you. I think I can show it here. So, yeah, there's a little preview there on the side. Enter your ad copy here. So you literally, ⁓ This, I built this one for like Facebook and Google ads kind of thing. I ended up actually using it on my like LinkedIn post, my organic content as well. And it makes my engagement go through the roof because I'm getting, yeah, I'm getting feedback. mean, really a LinkedIn post and a Facebook ad are very similar things, you know? So you just paste whatever your copy is into there. And then the next step here.

Corey Ganim: That's so smart. Right.

Justin Brooke: It goes into the feedback now these are in parallel and you know if you want to know how to run things in parallel This this took me a minute to figure out. It's actually really easy, but there's no Button you kind of have to know the secret, know, there's no button that's gonna do it So what you have to do is you have to kind of select multiple things and Then you can right click on them and there's a little group button

Corey Ganim: Right.

Justin Brooke: And then you got to click on this. can choose sequential or parallel. And I'm just going to go ungroup them just, you know, cause I don't want to mess up my thing here, but parallel saves a ton of time. So now it's not going one by one to each of these. They're all giving feedback at the same time, right? Cause we don't need this to happen. And then this to happen. And then this to happen. Like we need all of them to get the ad copy at the same time and all of them to give us feedback at the same time.

Corey Ganim: I

Justin Brooke: Cause otherwise this thing was taking forever to run. And then, you know, these AI machines, they only have so much, you know, horsepower behind them. So I had to split it into two parallel groups on here because it was, it was a little bit too much when all 13 was doing it. So they're running in parallel. do all this, they do all this feedback. goes over to the copywriter. Let's, let's look into the prompts a little bit here. All right. So this is the prompt.

Corey Ganim: Right.

Justin Brooke: Let me see. think I can open this full screen. There we go. All right. So this is the prompt for Sarah Chen, who is one of my personas and they're all very similar. The only sentence that really changes is we change the pretend you are a struggling female e-commerce store owner. So if I were to go and look at Marcus, Marcus is a struggling male SaaS founder. Jennifer is a excuse me, female life coach. So these are all my target customers, a male B2B consultant. We've got a female course creator. All of these people are buying the type of product that I sell, which is like advertising stuff, male local business owner. The prompts are, you know, same thing. We just change out that one part of the first sentence.

Corey Ganim: Right.

Justin Brooke: And then the data source, because the data source is how this model knows how to accurately pretend to be this thing. So what some people are doing, there's a little bit of a sales trick, marketing trick in this synthetic audience world, which by the way, guys, this is popping off. Like this is a real thing. You could Google it. There's other agencies, like it's exploding right now.

Corey Ganim: Yeah.

Justin Brooke: So kind of the marketing shenanigan is like we have 5,000 in our audience. have 50,000 in our audience, like bigger audience. Yeah. So you were going to get better, uh, you know, results back or something like that. But the problem is, is at scale. Remember these AIs can't do that much. Remember they have to run. It takes a certain amount of time. So if you really had 50,000 of them and you really had long.

Corey Ganim: ⁓ like a bigger focus group is what you're saying. Yeah. Right.

Justin Brooke: So you need a high quality persona behind it in order for it to be accurate. If you want that 85 % to 92 % accuracy that is coming back in some of the studies and the case studies, you have to have a high quality persona behind this, which I'm gonna show you here in just a minute. It's not just a prompt. You don't just get to say, pretend to be this thing and then give me feedback. It's not going to be accurate. It's going to be fake.

Corey Ganim: Right.

Justin Brooke: It'll be decent, but it won't be 85%, 92 % accurate. All right, so the data source, you can see over here in Mind Studio, you can put all kinds of data sources. My first data source, this is our own persona so that the copywriter knows how to write the variations based on our own customer product, all that type of

Corey Ganim: So that file right there, that's like your ICP, like your main ICP codified into a PDF.

Justin Brooke: This is my main ICP about the company, about our products, that type of stuff. That way the copywriter knows what to write about. All these other ones are the virtual focus group or the synthetic audience. So this is Sarah Chen's persona. So an ICP, we start off with demographics, who she is. Then we get into professional background.

Corey Ganim: Got it.

Justin Brooke: her experience, goals and motivations, secondary goals, pain points, emotional frustrations. And then we do something called an, yeah, right.

Corey Ganim: This is like in depth too. This isn't just like, Hey, act like a, you know, a struggling female entrepreneur or e-commerce business owner. This is like, here's all our demographics. Here's her background. Here's her pain points. Here's what keeps her up at night. Like super, super detailed.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, yeah. It's 1400 words, you know, so I mean, it's a detailed persona. And then the key here is this empathy map. you guys can Google an empathy map. There's lots of cool exercises. But essentially, what an empathy map is, is what is she thinking? What is she feeling? What is she seeing? What is she saying? What does she do? And then usually her pains and gains as well. The different platforms that she uses, her decision making process. Now, I had AI help me with this, you know.

Corey Ganim: Jeez.

Justin Brooke: So I use Claude and deep research mode and it helps me write these things. But yeah, so this, if you want it to be accurate, this is the kind of personas you need to have with each of these little things. And so some people have tried to recreate this, seeing some of my content and then all they do is the prompt and they try to run it through all the prompts and they're like, it's giving me garbage. Like, no, it's not just a prompt. You have to connect it back to a persona that's attached to each one of these. prompts, right? So if we go to David, you can see David's got a data source for David and he's got his own 1400 word dossier that pretends to be who he is, right? Making sense? Okay. All right. Let's take a look back at ⁓ Sarah's prompt here. So pretend to be, are now part of a panel of prospects reviewing ads as a focus group. Your job is to give your opinion about how the ads make you feel, what they could do better.

Corey Ganim: Yep, absolutely. ⁓

Justin Brooke: for additional context on the role you are pretending to be, use the data source, right? And then when I give you ads to look at, I want you to give me your raw personal feelings about that ad. Does it relate to you? Does it address your needs? What about it appeals to you? What about it turns you off? What do you wish the ad said that would make you buy now? How could this ad get your attention better? Do not use generic information about copywriting or advertising. Stick to your persona and critique the ads based on your own desires, challenges, fears.

Corey Ganim: data source, yeah.

Justin Brooke: frustrations and goals, here's the ad. And I made mine to where I can look at images or ad copy. So if you want to run a banner ad or something like that. Any questions?

Corey Ganim: I mean, the only question I have so far is like, if you're an online advertiser, why the hell are you not doing this? Like to me, when you walk through it like this, I mean, this is such a no brainer. It's like, I mean, let's just continue because this, I just can't wait to see the output. This to me is so obvious where this industry is headed that if you're not doing this, you hate money. Like that's what it comes down to. So let's keep going.

Justin Brooke: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, ⁓ we run it. She gives the feedback. They all give their feedback. They all have very similar feedback. Have to answer those same questions. And then we take that, that over to the copywriter. So now the copywriter kicks in and the copywriter, you can see we're passing all the customer feedback to each one of these. Now, if I was doing a little bit better, I should probably separate each one of these with XML. I don't want to get nerdy in here. You guys can look it up, but there's a little tags around here. Because remember, when I'm passing that data in, that's, you know, it could be a thousand words of content. And so there's 13 of them here. So it could be 13,000 words of content that the copywriter just has to instantly read. OK, so embody a world class copy. And by the way, we're learning. I've been split testing different words and we're learning that embody a is actually working better than pretend you are. And I just need to update all my stuff. Yeah.

Corey Ganim: Interesting. ⁓ and in the prompt itself, you're saying when you say to embody versus act as a.

Justin Brooke: Right. so machines think differently than humans do. And so when you say pretend to a machine, it's like, ⁓ okay, fake be this thing. But when you say embody, you're the machine, no, no, no, really like, yeah, like become it. Yeah. Right. So, ⁓ you have 40 years of experience writing direct response copy from direct mail to emails and everything in between your assignment. I will give you an ad we ran.

Corey Ganim: Right, I see. become it. Yeah, I see.

Justin Brooke: that's the ad, the original ad copy. I'll give you the feedback from a panel of prospects about the ad. Consider all the feedback in the original ad, then use your vast experience with copywriting to write three new optimized versions of the ad. Make sure you can write the ad copy to use Justin Brooks voice, which is in ⁓ the customer research. My style and tone, do not overdo it. Do not make him sound like a Gen Z or a hipster because it was, it tends to overdo my accents.

Corey Ganim: Funny that you have to say that.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, it tends to overdo it. it gives me a lot of, you know, it's like, yo, lit fam, it's gas, skibbity, you know. Yeah. So I just had to tell it to chill out a little bit. He should sound the way his prospects need him to sound and clearly demonstrating his vast domain expertise on the subject. Format your response. This was interesting. So it feels better. So it was just giving me like a document.

Corey Ganim: No way, that's so funny.

Justin Brooke: You know, you know how AI does, there's always like a executive overview and then there's the summary and you know, that kind of stuff. Right. So it was just giving me that format. Which was okay. But when I said, you know, I wish it felt more like a team member was emailing me back. Right. So format your response, like an internal team email, quoting key pieces of feedback, giving your brief insights. Plus the rewritten versions. Right. And so.

Corey Ganim: Yep.

Justin Brooke: He sends an email, it's like, team, here's what I found, we got this feedback, here's some insights about the feedback, because I find that valuable. I actually learn a lot from the feedback. And when I read the feedback, it sounds just like I'm in my customer support inbox. Like it sounds really, really real. They're having same problems and things like that. So it gives me the feedback, gives me some insights, I learn a bit, and then it just gives me like, so there's the teach a man to fish, and then there's just to give a man a fish, you know.

Corey Ganim: Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Justin Brooke: And so it teaches me a little bit, but then it's like, all right, here it is, just copy paste this and run that. Okay. So it does that. Then what we do, the final step here is, it shows me the feedback. And then I say, you know, do I want a prediction? And then it goes over here to the prediction engine, the prediction engine. I'm just going to explain it. The only reason I don't want to show it. It's not that I'm trying to gatekeep anything. I don't want everybody to have the exact same scoring system.

Corey Ganim: Right.

Justin Brooke: If we all have the exact same scoring system, it's not going to matter. So you need to develop your math just like I'm developing my math, but it's very simple. Essentially the prediction engine is saying, Hey, we just got this feedback from the panel. The copywriter wrote these three variations. I want you to take all known advertising and copywriting best practices as well as the original ad, as well as the feedback, as well as the variations.

Corey Ganim: Exactly.

Justin Brooke: And then I want you to do a scoring. And so I just give it a scoring matrix. You just, you know, weigh this 50 % weigh that 30 % weigh this, you know, 10%. You just make a little scoring matrix in there. You can ask Claude to do it for you. It's very simple stuff. Um, if you really want it to be good, I, my suggestion is go hire a math professor who actually understands how to make scoring matrices and algorithms and things like that and have him, you know, it's, it'll be the best $500 you spend. All right. Um,

Corey Ganim: Yeah, for sure. And that you're talking about dialing it into, I mean, you know, even if that increases your ROAS by, you know, 0.1 % or 0.2%. And we're talking about at scale, like you are, that's that pays for itself many times over.

Justin Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. It's big. So spend a little bit of money on the prediction engine. This is the one part of it that, you know, I like to keep. So essentially it could be very simple. Take everything that happened and put a score on which one's the best based on our persona, the feedback, the copy variations that were written. And so for us, it then says, okay, this one has an 86 % you know, likelihood that this is going to be the winner. You know, it doesn't. We're not predicting lottery winners here. You know, it's just saying this one has a 72 percent. This one has an 86 percent. We think you should run this one. But I've done this a bunch of times now. And so I am now at the point where I'm like, OK, when it says it's 86 or 80 percent or higher, it's usually pretty dead on that that's the one that we should run. And that one's going to win. So as you run it, you'll get to you know, trust your machines and your agents a little bit better and do your math. So that's really the only thing. So this one is just picking which one of the three variations we should run.

Corey Ganim: us. So I have a question for you on that. let's say, cause obviously you've been in this industry for 20 years. Like you probably have developed a pretty gut fee, a pretty good gut feeling for what ads are going to perform well and which ones might not. So are there any situations where the prediction engine comes back and says like, ⁓ this is the ad that is going to perform best. And you just look at it you're like, ⁓ something about my gut tells me that the one that it predicts at say 60 % or Basically one that it predicts is going to perform worse. Do you ever end up going with one that it predicts is going to perform worse because your gut is telling you to do so? Or do you always strictly stick with the numbers?

Justin Brooke: I, I... I was actually really shocked with the first couple of times I made it and used it, that it was picking the same one that I would pick. And that was when I was like, oh, this is legit. This is, you know, I was like, man, I've got 20 years experience, read a lot of books, and this thing picked the same ad that I would have picked to have run. But then, you I don't to be all in my feels, you know? So I actually ran them to see which one won and it...

Corey Ganim: Right.

Justin Brooke: You know that one was the one that won, you know, not every single time, but it's now right more way more often than it's wrong that I just run it. And I know that like I'm it's like a nine out of 10 shot. I'm going to I'm going to win on this one. All right. I want to see if I can show you an output of this thing.

Corey Ganim: Right. Yeah, I'm super curious to see.

Justin Brooke: OK, so yeah, yeah, yeah. So here is. ⁓ Let's see here. know about that. this. Here we go. Yeah. All right. So I can't really, I don't think I can show you like the clean white version that it displays to me just because we're in the back end and it would take, it takes like 11 minutes to run it, you know, so it would be, you know, we're just live right now. So it's too hard to run it. But here's, here it is, you know, all right. Hey team, just got the panel feedback.

Corey Ganim: Mm-hmm.

Justin Brooke: This was a new thing that I came up with called a GCP. It was a new abbreviation. Some brutal honesty here, but exactly what we need. Let me break down the key insights and serve up three optimized versions. ⁓ Here's the key feedback that we got. It screams pure buzzword bingo and hype. Our auto shop owner, Bob, called us out hard on the dethroned language. Too aggressive, not credible. My main pain isn't low conversion. It's expensive, unpredictable advertising. Amanda, the e-commerce. girl, nailed our disconnect. We're seeing conversion optimization to people bleeding money on ad costs. Does it relate to me? Barely if any at all, multiple prospects. All right. So it didn't like the ad that I gave them. And then the copywriter then said, okay, well, based on all of that, we got seduced by our own cleverness. The ad reads like we're talking to other marketers, not struggling business owners. We need to lead with their pain. And I was like, yeah, you're right. You caught me slipping there. I was... And it took it back to best practices. Okay. So then it said, all right, here's version one, the problem first approach. Your marketing costs keep climbing while your results keep dropping. I get it. What worked last year is failing this year. Facebook ads that used to bring customers are now just burning cash. Your email campaigns feel like they're shouting into the void. Don't get me started on trying to explain your business in a 30 second video. Here's what I've learned after 15 years and 50 million in client ad spend. The problem isn't your offer. It's not your audience. It's not even the platforms. The problem is everyone's using the same tired approach. So it gives me new variations that are written. It's good copy. Yeah, so here's the thing. Is it better than the top 1 % copywriters? I'd say maybe it's as good as or it might win one and then the human will win one. But let me tell you.

Corey Ganim: I'm reading this and like, this is pretty good. Yeah.

Justin Brooke: is definitely better than the bottom 95%. The average person who doesn't have a lot of copywriting experience, the restaurant owner, Bob, the auto shop owner, most people, unless you're highly trained in copy, this is writing better than you. But then even with the person who's better than, let's say the top 1 % copywriter, this is going to present

Corey Ganim: Yeah. Right.

Justin Brooke: new ad copy every 10 minutes, three new variations every 10 minutes. It's gonna outpace even the best of the best. And remember, it cost me 13 cents.

Corey Ganim: Right. Yeah, it would cost I mean to how much would it cost you to pay? say like a top 1 % copywriter to even give you like three basically three ad variations that you have here that cost you 13 cents, I mean hundreds out like

Justin Brooke: Yeah, so it's usually like a hundred to five hundred bucks an ad. Right. And so this is 13 cents for three ads. And it's about as good as a top one percent copyright.

Corey Ganim: Right. So, I mean, when you think about it from like an ROI perspective, it's like, all right, maybe it's 90 % of as effective as like the best human in the world at this, but it's costing me 0.001 % of what it would cost me to pay that human. So from a pure ROI perspective, I can just run more of these ads and make more money. Like that's, it's pretty cut and dry to me that this is the obvious choice between those two options.

Justin Brooke: But here's the big thing, and I didn't even know this benefit until I ran it a few times and started talking on the phone with clients and things like that. This makes an all love to anyone named Nancy. I think you're special and you're amazing, right? But this gives Nancy who answers the phones the ability to now be your Facebook ad person because you could put gobbledygook in the front end, right? I put a bad ad. I was slipping, you know?

Corey Ganim: Yeah. Right.

Justin Brooke: You could put a bad ad in there and then the feedback is gonna be, this is a bad ad. The copywriter is gonna go, this is a bad ad. Let me write you a good one instead. So now anybody has the ability to be, maybe I won't go top 1%. Let's say a top 10 % copywriter, Facebook ad writer. And I know we're getting a little long in the tooth. There's another one I wanna show, another variation of this that I do wanna get into. But any questions or anything on this?

Corey Ganim: Right. I mean, no, think this is, it's very straightforward to me. I see the ROI. it makes sense. Again, if I'm, if I'm in the audience here, I'm, and I run any sort of paid ads or even like you said, like you could apply this to your social media content. Like I'm thinking to myself, how the heck do I immediately replicate this for myself? And obviously that's part of what we're going to be doing at the workshop in April, but just in general, like I would be starting to think along these lines. If I'm a business owner watching this.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, yeah. Right, have AI create your content, your ads, whatever, but then run it through something like this before it goes out the door. Because if you run it through something like this, it's actually gonna enhance it, it's gonna improve it, it's gonna wash it a little bit, right? You wanna wash it before you go out the door, that way you have a higher likelihood. And I use it on my LinkedIn post, my Twitter post, I get more engagement, I get more comments when I do it. So, all right, so that was the ad version. I created that one because I...

Corey Ganim: Right. Yep.

Justin Brooke: I work in advertising. But then one day I was writing a sales page and I'm halfway through the sales page and I'm thinking to myself like, does this suck? Like, am I just going in the complete wrong direction? Is anybody gonna, oops, hold on. Let me share this tab instead. Sorry, sorry. All right. So this is the sales page version of it. So I'm writing a sales page one day and I'm realizing like, man, I wish I could have feedback. And I'm thinking in my head, I wish, my Twitter followers would just be so cool that I could send out my halfway done sales letter and they could let me know like, ⁓ yeah, dude, I would totally buy from that or no, man, that's horrible. I would get a bunch of trolls. They would say it's half done. They would ignore it. It wouldn't go viral. The algorithm would hate it. It just wouldn't. So then I got to thinking, I was like, ⁓ crap, I can, I could go use.

Corey Ganim: Right. Yeah.

Justin Brooke: My virtual audience, you know, I don't have to go like find a real audience. I have a virtual audience that's already trained on how to give me feedback about my products and my industry and stuff like that. So I go and I duplicate my thing. start ripping it apart and moving it around and basically create the same version. all right, remember, this is this is 20 cents now. OK, 20 cents to run this thing. Yeah. OK, so essentially the same thing, but this step

Corey Ganim: Right. per run.

Justin Brooke: Now we're giving it a PDF. So what you have to do is you have to PDF your sales page. Is it sharing? Yeah, it's sharing this. Okay. So if you, you know, I normally write my stuff out in Google docs first, just download it as a PDF, or if you're to use a document. However, your sales page has to be PDFed, right? Once you have it in PDF, you're going to upload it as a, as the first step. That PDF is going to get passed around all these and we changed the prompt a little bit. Let me go and show you. Okay, so same thing. ⁓ Female e-commerce store. By the way, had some of them are successful and some of are struggling.

Corey Ganim: That's I was going to ask. Why is it that some of them are successful as far as the persona versus others are struggling?

Justin Brooke: Because sometimes I actually want to not convert to somebody. Like I have beginner level offers and I have advanced level offers. And I want to make sure my advanced offers don't get sold to my beginners because they're just going to create all kinds of problems. They're going to want refunds. And then the same thing. I don't want my beginner stuff to make sense to my advanced people because they're going to be like, ⁓ right. Yeah. Yeah. So different levels of success, you know, so basically half of them.

Corey Ganim: I see. Right, different audience.

Justin Brooke: are beginners, half of them are successful. All right. So you are now part of a panel of prospects reviewing sales pages as a focus group. Your job is to give your opinion about how the sales page makes you feel and what the owner could do better for additional context on the role. Here's your persona, core traits. And this is just what I know about my customers. You know, I know that this is like the major things that they want to do. They want to topple the giants. They want to beat the gurus. They want to feel like David versus Goliath. You resonate more towards pleasure angles, like, so my audience likes a rags to riches story. They want to make millions. They don't want to save thousands. Yeah. And so every audience is different. Some audiences is like save $3 a day. And they're like, ⁓ whoa, I'm buying, you know, my audience would not resonate with that at all. My audience, they want to make six figures. They want to make seven figures, whatever. Okay.

Corey Ganim: Mm-hmm. I like that, yep.

Justin Brooke: So then you have these main problems. All right, here's the questions. This is the key. This is the sauce right here. When I give you a sales page to look at, I want you to give me your raw personal feelings about the ad. Does it relate to you? Does it address your needs? What about it appeals to you? What about it turns you off? Okay, here we go. What do you wish the sales page said that would make you buy now? How could the sales page increase your desire to buy now? Would you buy this product? Just a simple yes or no. Finally, what was your reason for saying either yes or no that you would buy this product? All right, so remember there's 1,400 word personas behind these these are very accurate and they're giving me a yes or no the reason I want the yes or no is because if I pass my sales page through here and I get only two yeses out of all 13 then I know this is not a good converting offer But my Black Friday offer, which did insane, had a seven, had seven yeses out of 13. And then I, yeah.

Corey Ganim: So that's only slightly higher than 50%, but I guess it doesn't, I mean, that's still a very high converting offer when you're talking about like the...

Justin Brooke: Well, you also have to remember that like two or three of the nos, I wanted them to be no. They were not the right fit. know, so it was really like, was, I was converting all the, that's the other thing I look at as I look at who said yes. So it tells me who said yes, who said no and why. And so I'm looking to see who said yes. Okay. These are the right kind of customers for this offer, you know? And then I'm also looking to make sure, you know,

Corey Ganim: Right, that's true. Yeah. Right.

Justin Brooke: Bob, the auto shop owner, isn't buying something about how to create a course online or something. So yeah, so I know if it's converting. And then what happens is the copywriter kicks off. And now the copywriter, their assignment, I will give you a sales page we want to launch. I'll give you feedback from the panel. Give me a list of each product by their name with their yes or no answer about what they buy with their reasoning. Consider all the feedback and sales page and user vest experience of copywriting to write a critique.

Corey Ganim: Yeah, of course.

Justin Brooke: of the sales page. Make sure you include a lot of feedback from the panel, because I want to see that feedback and then give the author your professional insights. this low key, I didn't even know this thing actually became like a copywriting trainer because you put your sales page in and then it gives you feedback and insights. like, hey, people didn't like that you wrote this. You should try writing it this way instead. And many times, even though I got 20 years experience, even though I've read all the books, there's times I'm like, man, you made a good point. Like I did. was, you're right. I was slipping. That was a way better version. There was a part, I just did an offer last week. This offer did $36,000 using this whole process. And ⁓ there was a part of it where there was like these bullet points. And I was like, yeah, those are way better than what I wrote. Like I'm just gonna grab that.

Corey Ganim: Right. think you're right.

Justin Brooke: pasted it in there and then it ended up working way better. So it's not only predicting whether your thing converts or not, it's teaching you how to be a better copywriter, but then it's also giving you like, hey, yeah, it's giving you the answer as well. So you run it through, maybe you get a bad score. Cool. Now go make the changes that it told you to do, run it again. Now, instead of only converting two out of 13, maybe you convert five out of 13.

Corey Ganim: Yeah. giving you the answers. Yep.

Justin Brooke: take the feedback, run it again. ⁓ Just keep rinsing it until you now have a dialed in piece, then you go shoot your shot.

Corey Ganim: keep looping it. Yep. I love that. And just out of curiosity, what was the offer last week? Like, was it a high ticket? Was it a low ticket?

Justin Brooke: It was a high ticket offer. Well, it was 2000. I don't know. mean, some people define high ticket is like 15,000, you know, but it was a ticket that you'd have to ask your wife permission for before buying. So it was 2000 marked down from 3000 and we sold out. sold, we only had 18 spots available for this thing because it's a live cohort. We sold out all 18 spots in a couple of days. Yeah.

Corey Ganim: Yeah, got it. Awesome. And I'm sure this obviously contributed directly to it. mean, like you said, if, if you hadn't have run it through this process, like maybe you sold all 18, maybe you only sold eight, maybe you only sold six. Right. So.

Justin Brooke: Yeah. Well, now I just feel naked without running it. yeah, it's like.

Corey Ganim: Right. It's like, how could you ever, how would you ever, how would you ever market without this system? Like now that, now that you've seen it and now that you have it and you've experienced the power, it's like, yeah, how, I mean, that's kind of like me with, I know you've got your opinions on open call, but like, I mean, I, I'm, I know, I know, I know, trust me, I get pissed off at it like a hundred times a day, but I'm to the point now where I've like started to re-engineer my life around it. And it's like, I physically could not imagine how I will.

Justin Brooke: Right. Yeah. Yeah, I still like it. I'm just frustrated by it, you know. Yeah.

Corey Ganim: proceed in my business without the technology now that I've experienced it. Right.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, I would have to make major changes to my business at this point. Yeah, I might just go get a job. Like I would just, I'd be so mad for a little while the first six months and be like, whatever, I'm just gonna go be like a barista. I'll love the baristas, Yeah, like dude, I couldn't imagine the nerves I would have sending out an offer to my email list or sending out an ad.

Corey Ganim: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's like, it's not even worth it anymore. Yeah, right. mean, dude, this is incredible stuff.

Justin Brooke: not doing this now because it just gives me a level of confidence to know I'm shooting my shot with the real fit with something that's worth it that's already been tested. I've already gotten feedback. And now the Harvard Stanford studies, you New York Times getting 90 % 92 % accuracy against their human groups. They're now using this all the time. Like this, as I see more and more case studies of big brands using this stuff, the more I'm just like, man, I don't want anything going out the door without first being rinsed through the system.

Corey Ganim: And so I'm, well, I guess I'm lucky enough that we're, we're obviously hosting this workshop together. So we're going to be helping other folks build this for their businesses. But like, I am going to be in there building this for my business too, because we just 24 hours ago, we opened a wait list for a community that we're going to be launching. And now that I've seen you do this in action, like why would I ever launch this community launched the email sequence and the ads and everything that's going to go along with it. Like why would I ever do that without running it through this process? Like even if you charged me, like again, I don't know how much you charge for this, but even if it was $10,000, I would pay it because I know for a fact it's going to be ROI positive. Like how much do you, how much do you sell this for? 5,000. Okay. Yeah. So I'm, I'm a customer and luckily enough, I get to build it alongside you there in person in April.

Justin Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, and that's 5,000 for each one. So it's 10,000 for the package. We've got a few different ones. I try to get like a $12,000 package out the door, but a one-off is, you $4,900.

Corey Ganim: Right. And it sounds like that's more for folks that want it like a done for you. So for the people who want it kind of in a done with you fashion, right. Just to reiterate the event that we are hosting in April for anybody that's interested in that, ⁓ check out the wait list at the link in the description. ⁓ if you're watching on YouTube and the show notes, ⁓ if you're listening on podcast platforms, that's going to be an April of 2026 in Nashville is where we're aiming to have that. And that's going to be a smaller group. It's going to be a limited number of seats.

Justin Brooke: Yeah.

Corey Ganim: with me and Justin where we're going to sit.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, and that's just one of the hours. Like we're to be together for two days. You know, I've got 24 agents. I was only able to show you like one and a half agents out of 24, you know.

Corey Ganim: Yeah, we've got so much sauce. Yeah. And of course we're going to get into open claw. We're going to get into building skills. We're going to get into Claude code. Like we might have to make it three days at this point, but it'll be fun. Justin, this is awesome. Anything else you want to share with us before we kind of wrap up here?

Justin Brooke: Yes. Yeah. Only thing I would say is do the work in the the persona in the ideal client, right? If you're build this thing out the real sauce comes from having those good Personas behind each one of them if you try to skimp out you get lazy on that thing Don't come get mad at me when it doesn't work. Okay? Because if you have a good persona behind each one of them You know if you'll if you'll take a weekend or whatever to actually build this out, right?

Corey Ganim: Yep. Mm-hmm. Right.

Justin Brooke: man, I'm telling you, this thing is a moneymaker. And we're able to tell our clients, like some of these agents, you got SEO agents, you got content marketing agents, the ROI is months out before they see an ROI. We've got ROI in the first week. Like you run your ads through here, you instantly see tomorrow that your ads are better, right? You run your sales page through this thing and then you mail it out. You see instant ROI from this thing.

Corey Ganim: Right. Yep. No, it's a no brainer to me. And I'm, I'm excited to test drive it for myself and build it alongside you. So where, ⁓ Justin, where do you want to send people? Like, where do you want people to go and follow you and hang out with you and learn more?

Justin Brooke: You know, I hang out on the Twitters. It's X. I don't like calling it X, you know? I hate calling it X, man. What am I, X-ing? You know, it doesn't work. Elon, change it back, dude. Come on, man. Keep it the way you want. Just change it back. Anyways, I hang out over there. I think it's really fun over there. I'm over there. The letter I am Justin Brooke. ⁓ That's me. But you can also Google me and find my YouTubes and my websites and all that stuff.

Corey Ganim: I know, I still call it Twitter. I still do. Right. doesn't say it just, yeah, we're like, we're still tweeting. Yeah.

Justin Brooke: There's not a whole lot of other Justin Brooks, so I rank number one for that.

Corey Ganim: Awesome. Well guys go, go follow him on all the platforms. ⁓ and like I said, again, you know, if you're interested in that event, we're going to have the wait lists in the description and in the show notes. So come hang out with us in Tennessee and April and build some of these tools alongside us. So Justin, thanks for your time, man. This was a good one. I know this is going to be really well received and for everybody in the audience. We'll be back next week with another build.

Justin Brooke: Yeah, man. See you.