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The Space Between – Heaven on Earth is a companion podcast to Awakening – Heaven on Earth.
Through intimate, heart-centered conversations, this series explores the lived experience of awakening — the questions, integrations, paradoxes, and sacred pauses where transformation truly occurs.
This is the space between knowing and becoming…
where Heaven meets Earth through honest dialogue.
Welcome to the space between heaven on earth. This is a companion podcast to awakening heaven on earth created as a space for reflection, conversation, and lived experience. Here, we enter the pause between knowing and becoming, between insight and embodiment, between heaven and earth. These conversations are not about answers or conclusions. They are about presence, about listening, about reasoning together, about meeting one another honestly in the unfolding journey of awakening.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm your host, Jeffrey Aylor. Again, welcome and thank you for entering The Space Between with us. Welcome to the space between. In our last episode, we explored what it means to listen with the heart to begin trusting in a deeper inner knowing. And today we're going to step into something that shapes nearly every part of our experience, even if we don't notice it.
Jeffrey Aylor:And that is time. So this episode is called the Unity of Time Releasing the Past, Trusting the Future and Living in the Now. Because so much of our lives is spent moving between two different places. Remembering the past. And anticipating the future.
Jeffrey Aylor:And yet the only place that life actually happens. Is right here, right now. So today we're exploring what it means to experience time differently, not as something that we're trapped in, but something that we can really begin to relate to with a much higher and a much greater awareness. So Joel, Joe, Sherry, welcome back. I'm going to ask very quickly when you think about time.
Jeffrey Aylor:Do you feel like it's something that you're moving through or is it something that is moving you?
Joel Aylor:I think honestly, I think we all will say where it feels like we're moving through time. It's it's hard. You have to really sit and and go into the abstract to to see it differently. It feels like we're moving forward, but there is you know, time is kinda kinda funky that way, but, actually, you can go back in time different ways. You can go forward in time, mental projections, things like that.
Joel Aylor:But, yeah, I think overall, it feels like we're going through time going forward, but we'll we'll hit on that here, I'm sure, in the next little bit.
Joe Dermody:So time's time's a weird thing, isn't it? You use it as a number to measure things. You use it as a value to explain things. Yet, you know, as you get older, you know, people keep telling you how how you're aging, which is a function of time as well. But I don't I don't feel old.
Joe Dermody:You know? People say it's just a number. It's it's a it's a weird phenomenon, and I know we're gonna get into this as well as we keep talking, but I as somebody that delved into the sciences through school, I was taught to see it as a measurement, as a thing that kind of defines so many different things. As somebody that is in the process of awakening, I see it as a little bit differently now. So this is also something that is in flux right now, right, inside of me and fascinating to keep seeing change as I as I change internally.
Sherri Keys:I guess my this was a rough, very difficult one for me. I I do lack control in this space. It'll be interesting to see how as we talk through this topic, kind of where my thoughts evolve from there. But I feel like time controls me right now in my life, which is interesting because it's always like, well, you can't stop father time. And as you get older, they're like, oh, now you're looking at your life in terms of how many thumbers versus the here and the now.
Sherri Keys:So time is one of those things that you never feel like for me, have enough of, but I never feel like I'm ever in the moment where I'm enjoying the moment. And that's, you know, I'm still on that journey. So that's where my perspective is right now.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, that's going to add a lot of richness to the conversation, right? We've said this in many different conversations we've had. We're all in different places. We have different experiences, and to me, that's what makes this podcast so real. I'm not an expert in time.
Jeffrey Aylor:I don't think any of us are subject matter experts on time, but guess what? We all experience it and have opinions and thoughts and experiences to share. So to me, that's what makes this so valuable is that that opportunity to to talk through these things. We're not going to come to a conclusion about any of it, but there are some things that that specifically have hit me. I I was imprisoned by time.
Jeffrey Aylor:I can remember I would be driving to work in the mornings, and if I was not at a specific place by a specific time, I'd get angry. Now that's not healthy. That is not a healthy relationship to something that quite honestly doesn't really it really doesn't even exist. It's it's it's it's made up for us, and we think it's linear, and it's not linear. So we're gonna jump into all kinds of really great.
Joel Aylor:Well, I like what you said a little bit ago. You said I'm glad everybody showed up on time this morning since we're talking about time. It's a useful tool. I mean, it's extremely helpful psychologically. It can help you in a lot of different ways, but experientially, life is only ever happening right now.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right now.
Joel Aylor:And and a lot of our issues come from basically being elsewhere, being either in the past or in the future or basically mentally being somewhere other than where our body is currently.
Jeffrey Aylor:What's fun because this has spiritual implications. That's all talking.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:You think about, you know, I was thinking this morning as I was taking a little walk that there's a scripture that says, time, what an empty vapor, you know, 'tis. An empty it did it evaporates. It just right? It can be gone, and time is also scientific relative. You think of the theory of relativity.
Jeffrey Aylor:Einstein's theory of relativity is all Time is a key element within that principle and that concept, so there's a lot of really cool directions we can take this. One of the things I think is really important too about this podcast is that, you know, some people might. This isn't about religion. This is just about knowledge. Whether the knowledge is coming from religion, whether it's coming from philosophy, whether it's coming from psychology, whether it's coming from science, all of them are trying to answer the same basic questions.
Joel Aylor:From different avenues, different ways, different approaches,
Jeffrey Aylor:different perspectives, different language. And again, I hope that that comes across as we go through our conversations that this is really, as we would use in our world, cross functional, right? It cuts across so many different elements of life and knowledge that it hopefully it will appeal to different people in different ways. So based on that, as we start to move into our conversation, I think it's really important for us to notice just how often our attention leaves the present moment. Think about what's already happened.
Jeffrey Aylor:We, you know, we we or we think about what's going to happen next. So we're either in the past or we're in the future, Joel just said. So it's really important that we explore this and and and and express what it means to us in our own lives. So let's let's go back to the past here. How does the past show up in your present experience?
Joel Aylor:The past shows up not necessarily as, you know, actual events, but more like patterns. You get emotional reactions to certain things. You remember certain moments, then strikes a memory. But even though that event is is over, my body can still respond to it as if it's still happening. And that's one thing that I've come to learn through through reading doctor Joe Dispenza is that he talks a lot about how the body becomes the mind of the past.
Joel Aylor:We hold so much of our past in our bodies, and we think that we're reacting to to this moment when a when a memory comes in, but it's actually just us reacting from a from a memory, and and that had full implications. Your body can literally feel like it's still in that moment. I mean, if I needed to or if I wanted to I'd say needed to. If I wanted to, I could go back to the time in those relive the moments when when Katie died, and I would break down. I would I would I would relive those exact same emotions, and my body wouldn't know any different.
Joel Aylor:It would think it was in that exact moment again in the past. It doesn't understand that it's not happening right now, but because my mind relives those those those past memories, it reacts the exact same way. So those emotions come back. That overwhelming feeling can come back. Crying can come back even though nothing about right now that it would be happening.
Joel Aylor:So the task can be extremely useful. It teaches us. We learn from those experiences. I've had many, many learning experiences. He's a great teacher.
Joel Aylor:If you're able to to go back into those moments, relive them again, figure out what did I do wrong or what could I have done better, they can teach you so much. You don't have to repeat the same pattern, but it's interesting how the body can react in the present moment as if it was in the past.
Jeffrey Aylor:There's a book we reference a couple different times in our recommended readings episodes of the Awakening podcast called The Body Keeps Score, and it really touches on how we hold in our body all of these experiences, and especially those that you don't deal with thoroughly, right, or completely. Those are the ones that get stuck. They get stuck, and those are oftentimes those translate into sickness, disease, some sort of illness. And we wonder, you know, so. Oh, you talk about a.
Jeffrey Aylor:There's that that's a situation where holding on to the past manifests itself in events in the future.
Joel Aylor:When you hold on to the past that strongly and you want say whether that's good or bad. So you can Yeah. You can you can hold on to a specific event that's bad, and it caused you to be, you know, angry, upset, resentful, or you can hold on to memories that are super good and you wish life was still like that. You wish you still had those moments. You still you you wish you still lived in that time.
Joel Aylor:That causes depression. Yep. That's lack. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:That's the concept. I lack something Right. That I had. Now I don't have it.
Joel Aylor:So it comes out physically as as as those as those symptoms. Yep.
Joe Dermody:So I agree. You know, the mem the past definitely shows up in memories and experiences. And I think that's why this awakening is so important because we're trying to remember the past and not only our current past, but everything. So when you say how does the past show up in present experiences, I think that it's, again, just the how how far back are we gonna go when we talk about past, because I think that it can show up it can show up. Is it just your current life?
Joe Dermody:Is it is it past lives? Is it and I don't know exactly how I'm gonna go with this, but current past, if we start going into quantum thinking, there's a lot going on with time and when we start talking about past. And and this is something that has gotten into my head a lot lately too because of how my brain is thinking about time. And the more I meditate and start seeing how time passes or doesn't pass during some things, my past means something different to me, and it doesn't it doesn't sit with me the same way that it once did. So I can remember a lot of the things that I have gone through.
Joe Dermody:I can also like Joel said, you feel the memories. You feel the emotions. I do very strongly if I stop to look at pictures, listen to music, think about what has happened in the past. I can I can call that back up too, but I don't think that I am, and none of us are? I understand this.
Joe Dermody:The same people that we were in the past, we change. We we Evolve. Evolve. Thank you. There's the word.
Joe Dermody:And we handle things differently than we did then. So the the same feelings that we experienced then, we don't process them the same way that we did then as we do now.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you know, you've touched on a belief that we have to ask at this point, I think. Number one, do you believe that this is our only life?
Joe Dermody:Absolutely
Jeffrey Aylor:not. That this past of this life is the only past that may be influencing or impacting our current time or situation?
Joe Dermody:Yeah. I personally do not.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, I I I well, I did for the longest time. You know, I thought it was we are one and done. This is it. You only have one life, and as who I am in this life, there's just one, but I believe in we have many lives. I believe in reincarnation.
Jeffrey Aylor:I believe we come through this experience multiple times, and I think that there are elements of past incarnations that we bring into this life that we deal with. It's a part of our soul contracts that we'll touch on in future episodes. That one and done concept is a pretty good fear tactic. Yeah. That's why they that's why it's, you
Joel Aylor:know, ingrained in so many.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you think, you know, it it to Joe's point, this is this is part of the concept that is difficult for people when you speak about time because they're they're confined in this short little span that is one lifetime when and and here's the other kicker. Hopefully will touch on this is that all of the lifetimes that you've had, if you believe that, are all happening at the same time.
Joel Aylor:Right? Everyone's heads explode now.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's multi we time is multidimensional, So all of those experiences are actually going on past, present, and future at the same time in layers. And, you know, I even even people that are of Christian beliefs, there are scriptures, and you almost have to purposely overlook them that teach this. There there is the story of the disciples after Jesus was healing a person of his blindness, and they asked him, they said, why is this person blind from birth? Was it his parents that sinned that caused it, or was it his sin that caused it? Well, wait a minute, disciples.
Jeffrey Aylor:What do you mean by that? How could he have sinned and caused himself to be blind at birth? If he had there had to be some opportunity before his birth for him to have sinned, or that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And you would think if Jesus didn't believe that this person had a past life, he would have said, you morons. What in the world are you talking about?
Jeffrey Aylor:How could he have had any sin? He didn't even been born yet, but he didn't. He didn't say that to him. So you have to purposely overlook situations like that. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:So I'm telling you time again, it can be a prison in our and and it causes so much confusion. Well, that's that's kind of the whole
Joel Aylor:root of the word nostalgia. So, you know, I'm not a nostalgic person, So nostalgia is basically the breakdown. It's it's nostos, which is to return home. Alga, meaning the pain of wanting to return home. So there shouldn't I should say it's it's the pain.
Joel Aylor:So pain and distress. So the combination is the the pain of wanting to return home. So it's it it causes us anxiety. It causes us, you know, frustration when we want something to be like it was in the past. And when we hang on to those memories and we cling to them, that causes suffering.
Joel Aylor:At times, it's cool to see something that's old from, you know, when you were younger, but if you cling to it, if you hold on to it, it can just cause you to be miserable.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're always wanting it instead of what you have. Right. You know, I've I've I love to use this in my my training with different people. You know happiness is an equation. Happiness is what you have minus what you want, and if what you want is different than what you have, you're not going to be very happy.
Jeffrey Aylor:If you want the past, you're not happy with the now. If you want the future, you can't be happy with the now. And life doesn't exist in the past or the future. We'll talk about that. It's only now.
Jeffrey Aylor:So all right, Sherry, real us in here.
Sherri Keys:I'm the anchor, man. Yeah. You know, this is a really profound topic, so let's just be honest about it. There's a lot of things within time that And I think I'm just dittoing my colleagues here as we talk through this, but I like it. Could be in a car and an old song comes up on the radio and it's like, I remember back when that was really cool.
Sherri Keys:I had a really good time or I could pass something, you know, in route that triggers a thought that, you know, we were there last year and then we had like this big thing. And so there are elements of time that trigger your thoughts that are good. And then there's things, obviously, we've all experienced it in our lives that pop up in our minds that invoke fear and anxiety that are not so pleasant. Think all of it together kind of in this world molds you into who you are. It's just being able to understand something that I struggle with is being able to live in the here and now.
Sherri Keys:Interesting thing, and as I was listening you talk, Jeff, is sometimes in time, I think I've been a place that I have no explanation of how I would have ever been there, but I'm like, I know I was here before.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's a deja vu kind of
Sherri Keys:Right. It's a deja vu. So explaining that, is that like a space where we want to transport ourselves into something that we wish to be or have we even experienced it? And again, it's another topic. Some other aspect in life that we've, you know, in this journey of reincarnation and things like that.
Sherri Keys:So in my life, I've had a lot of deja vuze. And I have yet to kind of explain that, but it had to happen somewhere in time, right? So that's kind of my perspective on it.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. You know, for me, the past, I I look back. I think I've mentioned this a couple times on the podcast. I look back at my past, and I recognize how every element of it has prepared me for the now, for exactly what I'm doing right now, and I think the universe tends to work with us in that way, and I think it even can be elements of past lives that experiences that we had in those lives show up in the now in preparation for whatever it is we came here to be and do in this particular incarnation, and to me it's beautiful, and it's interesting because I was listening to another podcast because I'm a podcast person, and it was talking about and I hear people use the term describing our life as a tapestry. You think of these beautiful tapestries.
Jeffrey Aylor:They're art. They're pieces of art that are made out of strings. Right?
Joel Aylor:But if you look
Jeffrey Aylor:at that tapestry from the front, it may be Full of beauty and and it makes sense. Turn that tapestry around. And all you see is strings. Organized chaos. It just yeah, it's chaos.
Jeffrey Aylor:It makes no sense whatsoever. Right? And sometimes I think we it depends on which direction we're looking at the tapestry. Are we looking at it from the front where you can see the beauty of all the pieces that came together, or are you looking at it from the back where all you see is chaos? Nothing seems
Joel Aylor:to You're seeing what's holding it all together.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I love that analogy though because it's it's it's such a visual experience, but I do believe that I I I feel strongly that my present experience, Sherry's point, has been shaped by things I experienced in the past in preparation for. All of that has been training.
Jeffrey Aylor:All of that has been development. All of that has been and all of it, even the difficult things, are beautiful. They're all beautiful. That's a hard lesson. Tough lesson.
Jeffrey Aylor:Tough, tough lesson. So let's talk about memory versus reality. Have you ever noticed how the way we remember things can shape how we feel today?
Joel Aylor:It it's everything because memories are not just factual archives. They're not just they're not objective. They're basically a an active interpretation. So we can go through the exact same experience together, but interpret it completely differently when we think back on it memory wise. So we're not simply just remembering what happened.
Joel Aylor:We're feeling what we've attached to when it happened. We're tied to emotions. We're tied to the memory of it. So it I mean, if we attach to it, you know, Eckhart Tolle would say, basically, our memories turn into identities. We become what we what we experienced.
Joel Aylor:Then you, you know, contrast that with somebody like Joe Dispenza, and he would say, well, basically, we're memory is just reinforcing our neural pathways. You know? It's they're saying the same thing, but it's the point is that, basically, what whatever we have, you know, experienced, it's not just a it's just not a factual objective memory. It's it's it's it's gonna be tied to to what you felt in that moment, what you experienced, and and it and it completely can, you know, shape your reality on on how how you go forward from that point.
Jeffrey Aylor:I I know for me with some I've learned that I can change my memory of an event.
Joel Aylor:Absolutely. If you sit and think about it long enough. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? So if you if you will take the space between and process that experience over and over, you can change what you originally remember it to be into something different.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. And you can also say I mean, so it's it's a huge powerful tool to do that because, like I said, you can go through that multiple times and see it in different ways, see it in different perspectives. And it's those are great meditations. If you wanna sit with a moment, something that's on your mind, sit there and look at it in in the different ways. Look at it maybe from a different viewpoint, from someone else's viewpoint.
Joel Aylor:How did it look to them? And you can learn so much from those from those moments. It's extremely powerful psychological tool. That's why our mind is absolutely an incredible tool. It can be used to do so many great things.
Joel Aylor:It can also cause a lot of problems if you don't control it.
Joe Dermody:But Well, let let me ask you a question, though. Are you changing the memory of what happened, or are you just changing how you think about the memory that happened? Because you're still analyzing the exact same memory. You're just looking at it a different way. You're not remembering anything new.
Joe Dermody:The same event happened. You were still there at the same place at the same time of everything that happened. You're just analyzing it and thinking differently. Nothing new is coming in.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right. Right. But the question the question is, how can the way we remember things shape how we feel today?
Joe Dermody:Sure.
Jeffrey Aylor:How I felt about that event. And that, you know, in time past was different than I feel about that event today.
Joe Dermody:Because you're taking the new you to how you are now and analyzing it from different
Jeffrey Aylor:perspectives, a perspective you couldn't process it through, A lens that you didn't have available to you to see it. Right.
Joe Dermody:Yes. You're looking
Jeffrey Aylor:at the same experience. Yep. But your memory, which is inside you, can change.
Joel Aylor:Great great example, and this happened this week. My wife was going through old pictures of our family and came across a picture of an old girlfriend of mine, and it brought back memories of which I don't usually sit and think about because it was a different lifetime ago. It was half a lifetime ago time wise, and it was one that doesn't have any effect on me currently. But I remember the day that that her and I ended and what caused it. Now when I was in that moment and for the for the days and months after, that that feeling of that memory of that of that moment is very different now when I've actually gone through it over and over in my head through different times in the years where I where I re I I I realized what I did wrong or what caused the issue to cause our relationship to break apart.
Joel Aylor:And I realized that I I process it differently now. I see the lesson in it. I see that, and I can be appreciative of it. You know? So the the the pain and the you know, of of a breakup when you're young is gone, but now I can actually analyze that moment and and learn from it.
Joel Aylor:So I have a completely different reaction or a different memory of it now because of that. It didn't change, like you said, Joe, it didn't change the details. It didn't change what happened.
Joe Dermody:Mhmm.
Joel Aylor:But it changed it it's changing my reality now.
Joe Dermody:Mhmm. Yeah. You have new tools. Right? We have new tools to look at the past with.
Joe Dermody:That makes sense.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Dermody:And that and that feeds right into mine. I mean so I think you answered my question that I had, which also I think answers the way I think about things and how it can change as well. So as we grow, we have the new tools to to look at and and experience the old previous memories with. So, yeah, pretty pretty fun.
Sherri Keys:As always, I did all the the conversation. I think that, you know, again, as you grow in your space, and everybody's not at the same point. I mean, I know people that still hold on to things in their past that are bad, or they felt were bad at the time or still feel that they're bad. It really does impact where they are in life right now. I mean, they're still holding on grudges and people are no longer with us and they still are thinking about the thing that happened that made them and they're still mad about that.
Sherri Keys:And I think as we become more in tune to who we are and realize that life is just not always about us, that that gives you a different perspective on how you view things that at the time seemed so so serious and so impactful. But then they were look but at that time, you're looking at the lens only from your perspective. And it's only when we grow to to really understand that it's just not about us. The things that there's bigger things, bigger lessons that we have to learn is when we begin to change the view or how we view different things in our life that happened in the past. So
Jeffrey Aylor:you make me think that you know forgiveness is one of the tools that we've been given to be able to deal with the past. I think one of the biggest issues we've got to address here is that you've got to acknowledge and deal with the past. Acknowledge it. You have to acknowledge that it happened, that things happen. If you don't, those things will get stuck.
Jeffrey Aylor:They get stuck in your body. They get stuck in your heart and your mind. You know, the Christian scriptures called them roots of bitterness. They have a root of bitterness, and that root of bitterness has a tendency to manifest in illness and sickness and various things that it always and forgiveness is not for the person you're forgiving that changes or alchemizes that memory. It's for you.
Jeffrey Aylor:If you choose not to forgive somebody, that's like taking poison and hoping they die from it. Right? That doesn't make any sense either. So forgiveness is for you to be able to alchemize an experience in the past so that you can not let it manage or control you in the current time, right in your present. And you know, I I take those experiences and I do think they help us today.
Jeffrey Aylor:We have to be careful sometimes that our memories don't create stories that we refuse to allow to change.
Joel Aylor:If not, it becomes your identity. Right. It becomes wrapped up in play. So like what Sherry mentioned, talking about people being attached to something in the past, it makes me think of the stereotype of that in the movies of that that jock that that the quarterback of the football team that won at state, you know, whatever. And you come back to him ten, fifteen years later in town, and they're still the exact same person.
Joel Aylor:There's still that guy reliving and talking about that story over and over and over and living about it. And they don't ever leave that moment, and their their life is in shambles because they've not let it go. That was what they are, and they can't let if they don't let go of that if they let go of that identity, all of sudden, they're not that anymore, they don't want that. They wanna be that person. Right.
Joel Aylor:But it created an incomplete identity around it. And to your point, there's gotta be forgiveness. You you we we think of forgiveness of just forgiving others. We have to realize that a lot of times, you have to you have to forgive yourself. Totally.
Joel Aylor:You have to have grace with yourself. In fact, if you can't do that, it's kinda hard to forgive other people. There's so much power in being able to go back into these memories, live in those times, and and forgive yourself for making a mistake because you didn't know any better. You knew what you knew at that time, but you have to forgive yourself because you didn't know. Yep.
Joel Aylor:You hadn't learned the lesson yet, and that was the lesson.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, this also I think touches on the fact that if you hear people say, oh, it was so much better in the past, you know, it was better ten years ago, things were better. I wish we could go back to, and all they're doing is living in the past. They're living in a memory of the past, and at the expense of their present reality. Right. And you've got to acknowledge the reality of your current situation.
Jeffrey Aylor:You have to.
Joel Aylor:Well, if not, you're just gonna be you're just gonna cause suffering.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah, that's what suffering is, right? Suffering, and you know what you're doing there? It just hits me as I'm we're sitting here talking. You're really separate. You're not unified with the present.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're separate from the present.
Joel Aylor:You're not your body. You're in a different time.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah, And and and this also hit me today as I'm on my short little walk. We really are time machines. Yeah. We are all individually time machines.
Joel Aylor:Your mind is. Right? Your mind is, and I've told I've said this to you guys before that your body is never anywhere but the present moment. It physically cannot be in the past. It cannot be in the future.
Joel Aylor:It is literally the only thing in the present moment.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's here to ground us.
Joel Aylor:Correct. To to live in the moment, you have to live in your body.
Jeffrey Aylor:You have to be here. That's what meditation. To breathe. Think you know, I'm breathing.
Joel Aylor:But, yes, the the mind is a time machine. It allows you to go backwards. It allows
Jeffrey Aylor:you to go forwards. Yeah.
Joe Dermody:Yep. But meditation is also the ability to help you connect to your spirit. Mhmm. Right? And your mind can wander through your time, but the importance is to be one with all three.
Joe Dermody:Yep. Right? And and that's where the unity comes in is to bring all three together, your mind, body, and spirit. So your body is forced to live here in the present no matter what you think. Right?
Joe Dermody:Your your mind can wander through time. Right? And and bringing it back here to the present is where is where it has to coexist with the body.
Jeffrey Aylor:Alright. So I love my throat. Let me let me throw a curveball. I love this. We talk about the body as though we only have one body.
Jeffrey Aylor:We have a physical body which can only be in the now, but do you think also that we have other bodies?
Joe Dermody:Multiple energy body, etheric body, you
Jeffrey Aylor:have Astral bodies that can mental bodies that can you know, it's funny because there's a term called the silver cord, and the silver cord is the the element that connects our astral body, which is not physical. It's it's it's doesn't have the same kind of substance to it,
Joel Aylor:right? Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:To our natural body, and it can go all kinds of places past, present, and future, which is I think what we do at night. That's when you dream. You can dream about the past. You can dream about the future. You can, and I think at night we astrally travel.
Jeffrey Aylor:I think we separate from our body and can go in many directions. Do you believe? Yeah. Yeah. You know, the whole concept of astral projection, out of body experience.
Jeffrey Aylor:Interesting and fascinating study, right of of. Who and how we interact? That changes the dynamic of time, though. If you believe that you have to realize that changes the dynamic of time. So.
Jeffrey Aylor:All right, so let's talk about future thinking. This is probably my if I have a. I'm a futurist. Just see my personality is why my personality is. So how often do you find yourself thinking about what's next, and how does that affect your ability to be present?
Joel Aylor:I'm constantly thinking about what's next, And if if I'm not careful, I you know, and I'm not aware of it, it can it can cause problems. Now, you know, our mind loves unfinished business. It loves to plan things. It loves to, you know, go into the future. It loves to, know, you anticipate.
Joel Aylor:It loves to control is the biggest problem. And if I'm more if I if I notice I'm mentally preoccupied with with what's next, I'm not here. I'm not in the present moment. Now there's you know, we've we've talked about this, you know, earlier where there is useful there is useful things to time. Now there's two different types of time, and Eckhart Tolle talks about that.
Joel Aylor:There's clock time, and there's psychological time. And clock time is very useful. Like, it allows us to meet here at 09:00 this morning to to have this conversation. Without that, we wouldn't have been able to get together. We we had a we gotta plan that, and that's useful.
Joel Aylor:But psychological time is the mind's, you know, compulsion to attach to the the past or the future, and and we tend to, you know, always think about what's next. I know I do because I'm so busy with family life and coaching two different teams with soccer and softball and planning ahead. Alright. What do I gotta be ready for for tomorrow with work? I've got this project I gotta deal with.
Joel Aylor:I'm constantly in my head thinking about that. And if I'm if I'd if I don't stop to become aware of that, it can take over, and I can just lose out on the little moments that are going on around me. I can lose out on rest. I'm actually, you know, taking it like a day like today where I don't have as much going on and actually enjoying it. I can ruin my rest by constantly thinking about what I gotta do tomorrow.
Joel Aylor:We stop being you know, if we if we're constantly thinking about what we need to be doing, we're we can become, like we say, we become human doings and not human beings. I I learn like, you gotta learn to to slow down and and come back to the present moment. But, yeah, future thinking happens constantly, and the mind loves it. Yeah.
Joe Dermody:I am very bad about doing this as well to the point where I don't get the stuff done that I need to get done because I'm always thinking about, what else do I need to do? What else do I need to do? Don't worry about what else you need to do. Get done what you what's already on your list. You know, I have a list of things I wanna get done for the day most days.
Joe Dermody:And when I look at it at the end of the day, that stuff's still on my list, but, you know, I've I've still done stuff, but the stuff that's still on my list is still on my list because I'm always thinking about, okay. I can do this. I can do that. I can do this. I'm always thinking about what's next.
Joe Dermody:What's next? And, yeah, it it is it's it's difficult for me to stand in the moment because I'm always thinking about what's next, what's ahead, what's what what am I thinking about here? What's going on? So, yeah, it's tough for me, because I guess I'm a futurist as well. Always thinking about what am I gonna do going forward.
Joe Dermody:Sound like that. Yeah. I would much rather look at I'd much rather look into the future than look look at the now or the past. But I am understanding that the the now is important. Much more now so much more so than
Jeffrey Aylor:Much more now. I knew you were getting ahead
Joe Dermody:of same.
Joel Aylor:Pun intended.
Joe Dermody:Pun intended. So so yeah. Yeah. It it definitely affects my ability to be present.
Sherri Keys:Wow. I I full disclosure, I feel like I'm somewhat of a control person. So I
Jeffrey Aylor:Hi. My name is Sherry.
Joel Aylor:Hi. I'm a control person. I'm the
Jeffrey Aylor:first step.
Sherri Keys:Person. I'm just coming out.
Jeffrey Aylor:Welcome, Sherry. Thank you.
Sherri Keys:Because I I spend too much time trying to control the future, although and not really understanding that you don't always have the the ability to do that. So I you know, my thought is you have a plan in order to achieve a goal. So I spent a lot of time checking off the the task as a part of that plan to achieve this future goal that I need to be able to control. And in doing that, it's I'm never living in the here and the now. I'm never smelling the roses because I'm always thinking about the fact that I think these 15 things need to be done in order for me to get to this this ultimate goal that I vision, whatever that I have in my mind.
Sherri Keys:I mean, I'm I'm experiencing it now just in life with just a lot of different variables that are going on and having a huge struggle from a perspective of I don't really control any of these things, but I'm pretending that I'm walking through life as though I am, controlling those things. And so it is very hard to live in the here and the now and in the space that I'm in currently right now.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you anybody who's been around me for any period of time knows that I'm a I'm a strategic thinker. I'm a future planner. That's probably one of the greatest gifts I bring to organizations is the ability to see things that don't exist today in my mind, And then create them in reality. Everything is created first in mind. I think the difference that I'm learning is that before I thought I was the one that had to put all the planning together to make that happen.
Jeffrey Aylor:And what I'm finding personally is it's it's I love having the thought, but then I have to let the thought go and let the universe take it and be and let the universe do the work, and I by faith sit and watch it happen. I have had more success approaching things that way in these last few years than I have ever had in my life, and it is by far the most difficult thing for me because I felt like I needed to be driving and controlling and and pushing and and and here's here's my what my experience is teaching me. Number one, you can do those things and things will happen, But the result may not be anywhere near as good as if you had just let the universe do the work. You're trying to control the outcome. Yes, And we have limited minds, limited thought, limited universe is not limited.
Jeffrey Aylor:The universe can do things that are significantly bigger, better and more powerful for you than you can do yourself. Right? You just have to trust. You have to trust and believe that you are a co creator, not the creator. You are a co creator with the universe, with God, with whatever you want to call source.
Jeffrey Aylor:And that has been so incredibly liberating, and it's magical to watch as things unfold, and it unfolds in a way so much better and so much more perfect than what if I had been driving it myself. You're seeing
Joel Aylor:that with this podcast. Totally. So you're you're you're letting go of the outcomes and controlling the outcomes and letting it you know? Because this podcast is something where you can't control the outcome because you don't have any control over where it goes and who touches it and who sees it and who experiences it and gets something out of it. Those outcomes come without you.
Jeffrey Aylor:Now I will tell you, though, there's a lot of pressure. I get pressure even from the the the different resources we use to create this to advertise, to to, you know, use social media and various things like that to promote and to. And and could I grow the audience using those tools? Yes. I can.
Jeffrey Aylor:But that's not what this is about. My my my role in this is to take the the thoughts that have been given me and to download them and create. And then I think I've said this before. If if the universe cared enough to drop this into me, then the universe obviously has an audience for it, and it's and and I am confident. That at the right time and for the right purpose and for it that it will connect to the right people, and that's what I think we're gonna see.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's what we're seeing happen, and it will take on the path that the universe has laid for it, not me. I could push this into main try to push it into a mainstream audience that it's not made for them. Yeah. This isn't made for everybody. This this content is not for everybody.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's not. I don't know who the person is that needs to hear it. The universe knows. Knows. And I and and to just let go of that and not be trying to push it.
Jeffrey Aylor:Know, the other thing I have to watch is is is the tendency to look at the statistics every day. You know what that when I do stuff like that, it's like looking at your bank account every day. Make sure you know why why do you do that? You trust that it's not there. Think is there a lack?
Jeffrey Aylor:I mean, what is it? It's a lack of faith, a lack of trust, the desire to control all those elements, and all that does is constrict and constrain, and it creates anxiety, and it creates depression, and it creates all of these psychological issues that we've touched on peripherally here because of how we view time. Right? So, yeah. I'm guilty.
Jeffrey Aylor:I am totally guilty of future thinking. I mean, is just who I am. And I and and I'm not I'm not sorry for it because I think it's such a unique not everybody can do it. In fact, most people are not wired to be able to see and think future and create. So it's it's it's so it's a gift, but every gift also can be a curse.
Joe Dermody:Well, the problem is is that some of us that that think in the future, like, can think one move into the future then, and that's dangerous, but not as dangerous as someone like you who's thinking four or five moves into the future or seven or or 10. And and that's why I'm this I'm distracted by it. Right? And that's because I'm just seeing far enough to say, okay. What's next?
Joe Dermody:What's next? What's next? Can as somebody that has worked for you for the last several years, I appreciate the fact that you do the planning and then let the universe take over. Because in work, we're part of that universe. So I have learned a lot by you not giving me the direct, okay, go do this, this, this, and this.
Joe Dermody:You've left it open to us to figure out how that needs to be done. And because of that, I have gotten to learn so much because I'm not having to follow and do it just your way. You've left that open. And because of that, I've had to learn a lot, and I'm grateful for that. And and that's just been the path that I've gotten to follow here, and it's been wonderful that I wouldn't have had with other leaders necessarily because they would have said, no.
Joe Dermody:You have to do it this way, and these are the steps that you have to follow. And I wouldn't have learned as much because I wouldn't have had that opportunity.
Jeffrey Aylor:So That's awesome. I appreciate that. Very kind.
Joe Dermody:Yeah. And true. So I appreciate it as well. It's been great. But, yeah, thank you.
Joe Dermody:And it's just something I think that a lot of people also need to hear about the opportunity to let things go and let things develop. There's great things that can happen because of it.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, I'm glad you brought that up. That's gonna be the last thing we touch on before we finish up, letting go. So let's talk real quick about the feeling of being present. So can you describe a moment when you felt fully present in something, and what's different about that experience?
Joel Aylor:Right now. This deep conversation, fully present. I'm not thinking about what I have to do later today. I'm not thinking about what happened yesterday. I'm in the moment right now.
Joel Aylor:I'm just sitting and listening. It's you know, I still have some internal dialogue. I mean, you can have times where the internal dialogue really quiets down, and that's that's presence. But the mind's always talking. We've talked about that in previous podcasts.
Joel Aylor:It's always chatting in the background. But I'm sitting here, I mean, in in the present moment. So, I mean, when you can have good deep conversations with people, not just the superficial gossip, it pulls you into the present moment. At least for me, it does. We've talked about it before.
Joel Aylor:You know, nature can do that. If you can just take a walk and silent the mind and just be in the in the the energetic the perfect energy of nature, it can bring you into the present moment. That's my favorite one of my favorite things to do is just be quiet and and walk. But, yes, I mean, it doesn't have to be profound. It's not like this, you know, magical experience.
Joel Aylor:It's usually just a quiet peace.
Joe Dermody:So I I agree with you a 100% with the conversation piece here. This is one of the few times when I just do not wanna pick up my phone and conversations like this and especially these conversations, I I love and I I'm I'm sitting here also in the moment. Also, meditation. Now walking for me is definitely not a meditation. When I if I were to go for a walk, I would my mind would wander everywhere.
Joe Dermody:So for me, walking is not a meditative state. Even if I was out in
Jeffrey Aylor:the remember how you felt about meditation in general.
Joe Dermody:Correct. Correct. And I love to meditate. For me, walking is not a meditate is not a meditation. And maybe it's where I'm walking.
Joe Dermody:That very well could be it too. Right? So if I did go out into nature and walk, that might be totally different than me just walking around my neighborhood. So maybe it's the environment. But going into my my backyard, going into, you know, my place where I do meditate, that is also a place where I get to come into the the here and now and be totally in the present.
Sherri Keys:Well, you know, conversation, obviously. But, you know, when people are reaching out to you for dialogue and you're just there, whatever capacity is a great feeling of being in the here and now. For me, I like even during the holidays, I really like decorating trees and it's like my therapy. And at that point, I'm just in the zone. I'm balancing control and creativity altogether.
Sherri Keys:So it all works well and planning. So it's just, you feel good. You feel like that you're in a space that is unjudgmental, that is safe, that is filling your heart with creativity and happiness. So being in the here and now for me means represents all those things that I I don't like to be interrupted while I'm being creative in that space. When I'm focusing and being there for a friend, every way I can, then that is me being there for them and not being distracted.
Sherri Keys:So
Jeffrey Aylor:So to me time evaporates. When we talk about, you know, time what an empty vapor it is. When you're when you're in a moment of flow, and presence in what you're doing. I think you've you all have kind of touched on the fact that you know we've been talking for almost an hour. Does it feel like an hour?
Jeffrey Aylor:No. No. Because you're in that presence, you're in that moment, and time at that point doesn't feel the same. It's different. And you know, there are times and situations where time Can't move fast enough because I am so not.
Jeffrey Aylor:In that moment. So this is why I, you know, finding that. Creative work, that thing that you're passionate about, that when you're doing it, time doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Would you say it's almost eternal?
Jeffrey Aylor:It is eternal. It is the eternal now. And you know, think this is also important not only from a micro perspective in this particular moment, but it can also be viewed from a macro perspective. Give an example. If I've had multiple lifetimes, those other lifetimes, past or present or past or future, don't exist in the reality.
Jeffrey Aylor:This lifetime is the now. Right? And given that, you can experience your entire life from that perspective. I I'm I'm learning that I believe time at number one. I think our bodies were created to live and exist much longer than what we tend to.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I think the way we view our life has an effect on that. I think if you buy into the story that. You only you're gonna live so many years or that that when you reach a certain age, this is how you should look or feel or act and blah, and you let those stories. Guess what? You let that story drive your thoughts.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's exactly what you're going to experience in life.
Joel Aylor:You don't want the old man in.
Jeffrey Aylor:Don't let the old man in. Don't let that old man. Don't let those old thoughts. Don't let that that thought because as soon as you do, that seed gets planted and and and by the way, the universe doesn't have a sense of humor. It doesn't really.
Jeffrey Aylor:It doesn't understand sarcasm.
Joel Aylor:It doesn't understand good and bad. It just gives you whatever it is you want to create.
Jeffrey Aylor:Whatever it is you want or you think it will respond. This is why you've got to be so careful about what you think and how you what you say. And and a lot of the things you say in the past will manifest later in the future. Don't be surprised sometimes when certain things happen. If you go back and think about it, you planted that seed years ago, years ago.
Jeffrey Aylor:So there's all kinds of elements of this that I think are but to me time, I know I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. In many cases, I'm in a flow when time, I can't even feel it. It's just gone. It's smoosh, Right? And I think that presence is.
Jeffrey Aylor:There there's a peacefulness to that. There's a peace to it. There's a joy that that is that is a part of that that I think is absolutely beautiful. So let's talk about letting go. What's it look like?
Jeffrey Aylor:To begin releasing the need to hold on to the past or control the future? What would that look like and feel like?
Joel Aylor:You can't erase memories as much as you want to sometimes, and nor can you abandon planning like we've talked about. We have to actually have, you know, clock time. We have to use that to to interact with each other in the world, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the biggest thing for me, it's about it's about loosening your identification with those memories or with those future plans. Don't attach yourself or your identity to it.
Joel Aylor:You can mentally prepare yourself for the future, but don't live there is a big key thing. When you do that, you're just basically your your body responds with anxiety because it's trying to live in a moment that doesn't exist. It chemically doesn't understand it, so it basically you you get tense. You get anxious.
Jeffrey Aylor:So it's
Joel Aylor:it's finding a way to balance all of those things, using it for your benefit, learning from the past, being able to prepare for the future and and and what you want it to look like. But like we said as well, you know, try not to attach to the outcome of it. Let the universe lead you there. Go with the flow. We talked about before with the untethered soul by Michael Singer.
Joel Aylor:He talks about that. Like, basically, as soon as he let go, all of a sudden, life took off in ways he could have never imagined. If he had tried to control it, it wouldn't have happened that way, and and we struggle with that. Our minds want the control because we feel like we know best. Mhmm.
Joel Aylor:And and it comes from a good place. Guilty. It It comes from a good place. It's not it's we have good intentions, but we we've gotta learn to, you know, over and over, day in and day out, to detach from it. You know, do your due diligence with life, you know, continue to work on yourself, but but don't get hung up on what it should have been because all that is is suffering.
Joel Aylor:And, you know, who has time for that?
Joe Dermody:Kinda like a self containing hell. Right? You gotta yeah.
Joel Aylor:Create our own hell.
Joe Dermody:Self to liberate yourself to be free. I I don't see time like a prison like we've been talking and and comparing it to. I see it more like a trap. Right? Not not necessarily a prison, but a trap.
Joe Dermody:It's kinda like the maze. And it's not it's not bad. It's not evil, but it is more like a confining loop, right, where you're you're stuck in it. You can't get away from it. When you when you free yourself of it, just like you said, Joel, it's, liberating.
Joe Dermody:Yeah. Right? So, and and it doesn't happen all at once. Right? And it it won't be totally you won't totally be free of it all the time.
Joe Dermody:But Those short escapes. Jeffrey, you it's a walk. Right? For me, it's it it I get out. I box.
Joe Dermody:I can meditate. Some of the stuff that you really enjoy, I like to do LEGO, these conversations each week. So what we can stop and enjoy doing, I think that's the the things we seek out we can do, we can help ourselves. So find what evaporates that time and do more of it.
Sherri Keys:Just realizing that, you know, it's a journey, doesn't happen overnight for us to grow in that space. I am a of of you know, be full disclosure, you know, I have I have a journey to go through in understanding the importance of enjoying the here and the now. And I think I keep saying like, take time to smell the roses for today. I think part of that growth and development is going to start with being able to, at times when it gets difficult, to really realize the here and the now, to be able to quiet yourself and filter out the noise. For me, that's been very important because life is gonna give you a lot of noise.
Sherri Keys:It's up to you. This is the parts you can control. What of that noise you're gonna allow in? And and this is one point in time where as a human being, you're a little allowed to be selfish and give yourself grace and say that just for today, that noise that I feel is surrounding me, I'm not going to allow that to define my day and my moment and my space. And that takes time, and I am still in that journey of doing that.
Sherri Keys:But once you've had an opportunity to do that just once, I mean, is very it's a good feeling. You feel so much pressure relieved in that space. Know that we're all in that space. We're all in this journey. We live this imperfect life.
Sherri Keys:So but learning how to cope and have those tools and understanding and teachings and and listening to people like we're doing on this podcast to really understand that one, we're not alone and that there are things that we can do to help us through that journey of understanding the value of time.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, I can't help but have the song from Frozen go through my head. Yeah. Let it go. Let it go. And for me, that's probably been one of the the most powerful changes in my awakening time is letting go of the need to control.
Joel Aylor:I'm shocked you went let it go from frozen and not let it be by the Beatles. Okay. I'm Either one. They're both good.
Jeffrey Aylor:They're both great songs. They both have the same basic meaning. Yeah, I love Let It Be too. That's, you know, I think back when I was younger, I didn't like the Beatles. I thought they were evil.
Jeffrey Aylor:And now, as I look back and look at their life and look at what they went through and how they went through their awakenings and the content behind their music, you know, I love and appreciate them significantly, and I do think that that's a wonderful example of a of a song. Let it be. That that really allows you know this teaching to come to life. I've had to give up the desire to control, to control outcomes, to control the future, because I thought I knew best. I thought I knew what was right and best.
Jeffrey Aylor:And and again, I'm finding that I'm being much more much more successful detaching from the outcome, allowing things to happen, and I can honestly tell you it is much less stressful. It's much less difficult when you do that, and trust that God, the universe, the source has our best interest at heart, that that it's infinitely loving, infinitely infinitely giving, and can do exceeding abundantly above all that we could ever ask or think. And I trust that, and I believe that with all my heart. It's life changing. And if you're struggling, you know, with with control, think about think about how many people.
Jeffrey Aylor:Are suffering from depression. And depression tends to come from an over. Fixated view on the past. And then you look at people who are suffering from anxiety in our society and world today, which is an over fixation and desire to control the future. And all of them are missing the beauty of the now.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I think that's the essence of what we're trying to to touch on here. So. You know, maybe time isn't really the challenge, but how we relate to it. And maybe the invitation is not to control time. But to return to the present.
Jeffrey Aylor:Again and again and again every day. This is like most practices. This is not something you do one time. You have to do it all the time. Not just every day, but multiple times throughout the day.
Jeffrey Aylor:And this is where our podcast called living heaven on Earth comes in. The the practices we share in that. Are really designed to help us. To give us different ways of stopping, slowing down, reconnecting with the present, reconnecting with source, And grounding ourselves. So that we can overcome that pull of the past and the future.
Jeffrey Aylor:So as we close this conversation, it's really worth remembering that the past only exists as memory and that the future only exists as a possibility, and yet we often live as if both of them are actually happening right now. I often think about people who are having thoughts about both the past and the future and they really think that that's happening right now.
Joel Aylor:Because their body doesn't live anywhere but the present, so their body's experiencing those emotions and of those thoughts right now. Yep. And the more you do it over and over, the more it becomes your your your reality.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yep. But life is always right here. So Joel, Joe, Sherry, thanks again for this wonderful conversation. And for those of you that are listening to the podcast, I hope this episode invites you to slow down, pause even just briefly, and return to this present moment, and hope that that can be enough. And with that, the space between continues.
Jeffrey Aylor:As we come to a close, remember that this journey continues in many expressions. This podcast is part of a family of partner podcasts. Awakening heaven on earth. The space between heaven and earth and Living Heaven on Earth are three companion podcasts exploring spiritual awakening from complementary perspectives. Awakening heaven on earth offers the core teachings and mystical reflections on unity, love, and conscious living.
Jeffrey Aylor:The space between creates room for dialogue, reflection, and lived conversation around those teachings. Living Heaven on Earth focuses on basic spiritual practices that help embody these insights in daily life. Together, they form a unified journey of understanding, experience, and integration. Inviting listeners to remember their connection with the divine, with one another, and with the living world. You can find all of them available on the same podcast streaming platforms wherever you listen.
Jeffrey Aylor:And if music helps carry these teachings deeper into the heart, The Unity. Awakening Heaven on Earth album is available on all major music streaming services as a musical companion to this journey. Wherever you engage, through listening, reflection, conversation, or music. May it gently remind you, you are not separate. You belong to the one life and heaven is already unfolding within you.
Jeffrey Aylor:Until next time. Walk gently, love deeply, and embody heaven on earth.