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Tune in to The Extra Mile presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. Co-hosts Paul Katool and Will Craft take listeners inside the world of transportation infrastructure in Mississippi.
The Extra Mile Podcast: Legislative Session
State Representative Charles Busby
(Paul) Welcome into another edition of The Extra Mile Podcast: Legislative Session, presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I’m MDOT Deputy Director Paul Katool. And as always, I’m joined by Will Craft, Public Affairs Director. You might notice the title change. Will, I want to officially welcome you to Public Affairs, boss.
(Will) Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it very much. Super glad to be here. I was, uh, working with you guys so much I decided to come be a full-time part of the team.
(Paul) There you go. We love it. We love it. Alright. Let’s get right into it. Today’s episode is being recorded on March 1. The session runs pretty pretty fast and heavy so we want to mention that. And we also want to welcome a repeat guest, State Representative Charles Busby, who represents district 111 - that’s Jackson County since 2012. Thank you so much for coming into the MDOT studios to talk with us.
(Rep. Busby) Thanks for having me. And Will, congratulations.
(Will) Appreciate it. Appreciate it very much. Very much.
(Paul) So, let’s uh, let’s get into it. So, what’s going on with the session? Where, where are we right now, Representative Busby?
(Rep. Busby) Well, yesterday was the the deadline to get bills out of committee that originated in the other house. So, that means the the bills that came to the House from the Senate, we had to get them out of committee by yesterday. And the same thing with the House - House bills had to come out of Senate committees yesterday. So, there was a little, you know, political activity late yesterday evening as we put things on pause, and a handful of bills that were being watched closely by leadership down on the Senate side until we moved on our finalization of our bills late yesterday afternoon.
And then we got out of there about about 5:30 p.m., which is, you know, a little later than we typically get out. But now, I think we only have 85 Senate bills, because we worked the calendar pretty good last week. Worked the calendar pretty good. I think we got 85 bills on the calendar, on the general calendar, that we have to take up in the next week and a half. So, I think that deadline is a week from tomorrow.
(Will) I think you’re right.
(Rep. Busby) So, we should have plenty of time to knock that out. And, you know, I’ve got my fingers crossed, guys, that we may actually wrap this thing up before scheduled sine die. Sine die is scheduled for April 2. And you know, we perhaps could wrap it up a week early.
(Will) That’s awesome.
(Paul) That’s amazing.
(Will) What makes you say that? What are you seeing?
(Rep. Busby) We’re just that far ahead of schedule. I mean we uh, we uh, we’ve got 85 bills, like I said, on the general calendar. We got some appropriation bills and ways and means and things like that, as well, that doesn’t include local and private. It’s just the general bills, the 85 general bills. And we get rolling, uh, on, on a couple of pretty good days, we can knock those out. So, you know, if we saw fit, spin the rules and move the deadlines, uh, that would be okay with me.
(Will) I think everybody would.
(Paul) Definitely.
(Will) I know you guys spend a lot of time up here and jumping at the bit to get back home. Life doesn’t stop back home just because you’re in Jackson, I know. Um, well, you talk about all those bills and those deadlines. What are the big ones we’re looking at? You know, we have our our babies, of course, road and bridge fund. There’s capacity program talks. What all are we looking at?
(Rep. Busby) Well, I think it’s gonna be a great year for transportation. The governor came out last week or week before with a with a tremendous program: $1.3 billion. Getting that money over to MDOT and allowing us to be able to program that money over a period of years, I think that’s the right approach. That’s a way to do that, to go back into capacity projects, a lot of paving projects.
The only thing that was left out of that program that I thought that I’d like to see addressed - and I’ve got the wheels in motion to do that - is multimodal. We have the opportunity through 2026 to, uh, to, to get a lot of federal match money, uh, for multimodal, and I’d like to see us put some money into multimodal and leverage that.
You know, each year we take about $10 million out of our highway budget, and we put that towards multimodal. And when we’re talking about multimodal, we’re talking about our ports, our airports, our rails and the little bit of the mass transit that we have around the state. So, you start spreading out $10 million amongst all of those four types of entities, the fifteen ports, all the rails we have, all the airports we have, and it just doesn’t add up to much.
(Will) Sure.
(Rep. Busby) So, if we could get that and build a program with that over the next few years, I think that would be instrumental for our ports and our harbors, all of our multimodal entities.
Uh, the other thing I’m real proud of: Harry Lee James with the State Aide does a great job. And we have been able to, uh, get a continuous revenue stream for the local system bridge program.
(Will) Yes.
(Rep. Busby) Alright. So, what we’ve done now that, with that, we have been putting $20 million a year in the local system bridge program. But, that was the, that was the first dollars that, as soon as somebody needed something, those were the dollars that they took. So, they took that away. And so, we, it really wasn’t a steady revenue stream.
So, in 2018, we put 5% of the use tax, or the, the, uh, the, the internet sales tax, but 5% of internet sales tax towards local system bridge program. Alright. It turned out to be - I’m not saying more money that was needed than was needed, but it was more money than we expected. So, like this past year, we brought in - where we have been putting $20 million in, we brought in $41 million.
(Will) Wow.
(Rep. Busby) So, we have put a tremendous dent on those bridges that we had - 500 three years ago - we had 540 bridges that were posted or closed in that program. Today, we have 240. We have made a tremendous difference.
So, as we have begin to, to address that problem, and, uh, and bring solutions to fruition there, now, uh, Representative Lamar, uh, Trey Lamar, Chairman of Ways and Means, come up with the idea: let’s, let’s increase it by 1%. Let’s go from 5% to 6%, and then let’s split it between LSBP and State Aide Bridges, because we had not addressed State Aide Bridges. So, now, we’ve got about $25 million a year going to State Aide and $25 million a year going in the Local System Bridge Program.
I think it’s a fantastic idea. He’s a smart dude, and he came up with another great idea, and I’m, I’m just tickled to death to have him on my team. He is, uh, he’s been right there the whole time, since the 2018 special session. Uh, he’s been using his, uh, his intelligence to help us over here in transportation, and I appreciate it.
(Will) Absolutely - on all those notes, right?
(Paul) Yeah. Oh, no doubt. It’s good to hear that transportation is the forefront of the conversation over there across the street, for sure. So, listen. Autonomous vehicles, electric vehicles - that seems to be a big topic of conversation. Last week, we we had Commissioner of Department of Public Safety Sean Tindell over to talk to us. He was talking about new enforcement issues. But, kind of, in general, can you talk about the conversation over there when it comes to that?
(Rep. Busby) I can. I handled that bill myself, actually, both those bills myself. You know, you guys brought us a bill over that would allow DOT to form some public-private partnerships in order to build out the EV infrastructure. So, I don’t want to, I don’t want to, uh, confuse the two. There’s a big difference in EV and AV, electric vehicles and autonomous vehicles.
So, the AV industry came to us, and when you look at the map of of the southern states, there’s a glaring hole, right there where Mississippi is, that have no AV regulations. So, we need to get something in place or we’re going to miss the boat on that. The reason it’s necessary: it’s a trucker shortage across the country of about 80,000.
(Will) Wow.
(Rep. Busby) That number is expected to increase to 160,000 by like, 2026. So, it’s a major impact on our economy, if we can’t move those goods, goods to market. So, AV trucks are going to be the first ones to come. Well, you know, it’s something that you’ve never dealt with before. So, the issues become you don’t know what you don’t know.
(Will) Yeah.
(Rep. Busby) So, we’ve done the best we could with the bill. We have worked with DPS and, and, uh, Commissioner Tindell to get the language in there that we want. However, I put a repealer on that section of the bill. It’s called “Law Enforcement Interactive Interaction Plan.” So, we think we’ve got what we need in there, but I put a three-year repealer on it. So, we have to go back and look at it in three years. And because, by then, there will be less things that we don’t know because we don’t know.
(Will) Sure.
(Rep. Busby) So, we will have educated ourselves a little bit more. We might need to tweak that a little bit. In that three-year period, we’ll, we’ll determine where our mistakes are, and, uh, and try to, try to tweak that. Now, there’s, here at the last minute, there’s, uh, there’s been some concern from the insurance industry about it. Uh, I don’t think that’s gonna be a big deal. I think we’ll be able to hammer that out.
It's my understanding that the Senate has passed our bill with a reverse repealer in it from the past House bill. We’ve held the Senate bill on a Motion to Reconsider. I probably just let it die right there, and we’ll take the House bill to conference, and, uh, and hammer out whatever final issues we have there, and pass that out. But, it’s, it’s important to the commerce of the State of Mississippi that we get that bill passed.
(Will) Well, and I think you know a lot of times we’re talking about these EVs and - I’m talking about myself here. You know, I look around. I’m like, man, we’re 10 years, yeah, we’re 20 years away, but I think while that may or may not be true -
(Rep. Busby) Yeah. You’re talking about EVs or AVs?
(Will) A little bit of both -
(Rep. Busby) Okay.
(Will) honestly, but you know, like you said, those conversations really got to happen now, even if it is 10, 20 years.
(Rep. Busby) Now, I, Will, you know, I took the committee to CAVS last spring. I don’t know if you knew that or not. But, it’s a Center for, uh, for Advanced Vehicular Systems at Mississippi State.
(Will) Okay.
(Rep. Busby) Intelligent group of people there. I wanted the, I wanted the committee to get an idea of what the future of transportation looks like. Everybody agreed, just like you said, that we, we believe that fossil fuels are going to be around here for a long time.
(Will) Right.
(Rep. Busby) EVs are going to take a portion of the market and so are hydrogen vehicles. So, the big question was not so much what the future looks like, but when is it going to look like that?
(Will) Yeah.
(Rep. Busby) And when will we be prepared for that? So, uh, that, that, that brings a whole set of challenges. How do we get the money to maintain our roads and bridges when we’re not using fossil fuels anymore, and fuel taxes being the number one revenue source that we’ve been using, and now we go to hydrogen or electric? How do we do that? Well, you know, we handled the electric issue in 2018 in the special session.
And, uh, you know, we indexed, we indexed that fee, and I think has - because of inflation - has gone up from $150 to, I think it’s $161 now - something like that. And the hybrids went from $75 to $80 over that period of time. So, it’s moving with inflation. Small numbers now, but I wish we had done the same thing with alternate vehicles, alternate fuel vehicles. Then, we wouldn’t have to worry about these hydrogen vehicles coming on.
But, I think we’re going to eventually get to a RUC system - you know, Road Usage Charge system - which seems to be getting more and more common across the nation. The question is, “how do we do that without imposing on people’s private, privacy?” So, that’s, that’s, that’s going to be the big issue. It might be -
(Will) Taxed at the pump type?
(Rep. Busby) It, it would be. It’d be a formula, based on the gross vehicular weight of the vehicle -
(Will) Okay.
(Rep. Busby) and the miles driven on Mississippi roads.
(Will) Okay.
(Paul) Wow. That’s, uh, a lot to think about.
(Rep. Busby) Yeah. Well, it’s a pretty dynamic time today in transportation so…
(Paul) I didn’t think me and Will knew we were going to hear all about hydrogen vehicles today, but this is, this is pretty cool.
(Will) And that jumps off the page. And another, you know, we kind of touched on this a little bit. And I know you don’t have the finality of - it’s not quite there yet - but the Emergency Road and Bridge fund - that conversation going on right now?
(Rep. Busby) Oh, absolutely. That conversation is very active. I don’t think there’s any doubt that there’s going to be another ERBR program. It’s been amazingly successful. We have done a lot of wonderful things. And we’ve done it, we’ve done it in places that, that tremendously impact commerce -
(Will) Sure.
(Rep. Busby) tremendously impact our abilities to get goods to market. And we do that with that, that, uh, group that we put together, that council that, that oversees that, that is plugged into the businesses across the state. So, yeah. I think it’s working fantastically. It was a great idea that we come up with in 2018. And I, I, I, I think we’ll see another big chunk put into that. And I think what you’re going to see in the multimodal, multi-modem is something that looks very similar to that.
(Will) Okay.
(Rep. Busby) I think you’re gonna have another team of people that are going to lead where that money needs to be spent. We’ve spent the last couple of months putting projects together from our ports, our airports, and our rail lines, and our mass transit. And we’ll be able to rank those projects and see what kind of return we would be getting on those dollars – again, leveraging the 80% federal money – and, uh, doing some really great things there, in a program that looks just like ERBR.
(Paul) Fantastic stuff.
(Will) Yeah.
(Paul) Chairman Busby, let’s take things back down to your district. What’s going on down there? I know there’s a mega grant -
(Rep. Busby) Yeah.
(Paul) that, uh, you just got. But talk about that and maybe some of the other projects going on.
(Rep. Busby) The highway 57 project is a, is a huge, huge impact for Jackson County. Glad to see that project underway before laying in highway 57 from highway 90 on up - I guess all the way to 26.
(Will) It’s going far. Yeah.
(Rep. Busby) And, and that’s gonna be huge. Then we’ve got the, uh, widening and paving projects there. We’ve got a paving project on 63, uh, in, in Jackson and George County that is, uh, is looking great. Our folks down on the coast doing a great job on that. And then we’ve got a widening project on I-10, uh, over at Hancock and Harrison County, taking a portion of the interstate there that isn’t already six lanes. It’s four lanes there and making it six lanes - that’s, that’s going to be a tremendous project.
And then one that we need to be looking for in the future - I hope to get an opportunity to participate in – is, uh, the widening of I-10 from Gautier to the Alabama line. I think that’s important. The the biggest issue there is, “how do we take care of the bridge across Pascal River?”
(Will) Yeah.
(Rep. Busby) I know that’s a big big deal. And that bridge is a couple of miles long, and it’s not gonna be cheap to do. So, we’re going to have to, you know, kind of get out of the box to try to find a way to finance that.
(Will) Yeah. I know that’s been a booger for awhile trying to figure out what to do with that gigantic bridge. But, it’s such a critical connector to everything.
(Rep. Busby) It is. And when you have an accident there it just backs up traffic forever. And because we’re, we’re kind of funneling things together, going from six lanes to four lanes, it seems to be a place where we have a lot of accidents. So, uh, if we could put another lane in each way there, I think that would help things tremendously. And also, you know, another thing that’s coming down there is, uh, the welcome center.
(Will) Oh, yeah. Getting a welcome center there finally?
(Rep. Busby) You know, um, when you live near a welcome center, you rarely visit the welcome center.
(Will) Sure.
(Rep. Busby) So, I had a friend stop by there a couple of years ago, actually. And he calls me and says, “Charles, I don’t know if you’ve seen it. This is embarrassing. We’ve got to do something about this.” I go out and look at it, and he, he didn’t take the story as far as it should. I mean… And, uh, and so, we were, we were looking at making some repairs, and all of a sudden, boom. Uh, we find out that it’s going to be replaced. And I think that’s fantastic.
(Will) Yeah. I know that’ll be a welcome sight. And I know there’s plenty of other welcome centers that we’d like to do some work on, too. So, if, if you share that concern, you’re seeing those around there, it is a focus we are moving on and, um, taking care of those to the best of our abilities.
(Rep. Busby) Yes. Yes.
(Will) Well, um, we know you’ve got a lot going on - be sensitive to your time here. But, we certainly can’t let you get out of here, you know - you’ve got more, other things, in the, in the, in the fire that you’re working on in, in the future, but wrapping up your time here as the Chairman of the Transportation Committee: I know, uh, just last week that your members did a little thing for ya at the end of the meeting - gave you a plaque commending your service here. And just talk about your time as chair.
(Rep. Busby) Yeah. Well, it’s been super, uh, bittersweet that I chaired my last House Transportation Committee meeting, uh, last week. And I’ll be moving on to, hopefully, continue to work with you guys. But, um, I think the highlight of, of my time as as Commissioner, or not as a commissioner, as a chairman, was the 2018 special session.
You know, when I was first appointed to this position, I jumped in the car with MDOT, and we went all over the state. We visited everything in the state. We, we looked at bridges, bridge conditions. And we looked at the pavement conditions. I learned a whole lot on that trip - not only about the conditions of things, but how those, how those things are done, and how MDOT operates.
And, um, I came back and reported that we got issues on the state system, but they pale in comparison to the issues that we had on the county systems and the local systems. And it was kind of met with the “sky’s falling” kind of rhetoric, you know. So, it really didn’t take take me seriously. And then, Secretary Chow called and, uh, and said, uh, “Hey, guys, you know, we’ve warned you about the conditions of your bridges, and if you don’t do something about it, then we’re going to cut off the federal faucet.” And things got real then. So, um, we were able to get a special session in 2018 that focused solely on transportation. And that’s when things really changed. And I, I was just very, very proud to be a part of that.
(Will) And, I mean, literally, that 2018 session - the majority of this, seeming like the topics that we cover on this podcast, originated from that session.
(Rep. Busby) Yes, they did. That’s right.
(Will) I mean, if not even just for, uh, Representative Busby, that would be a long-time historic session for MDOT as a whole.
(Rep. Busby) I think so. I think so. Yeah.
(Paul) Well, Chairman Busby, we really appreciate your service over there in the House. And, uh, excellent stuff.
(Will) No doubt.
(Paul) Will, let’s, uh, let’s hit it.
(Will) Hit the food question?
(Paul) Let’s hit it.
(Will) So, uh, and we had a great little pre, uh, full disclosure: we had a little great pre-podcast conversation about this. But, a lot of times we’ve been on here, we talked about a favorite place. And there have been some excellent favorites, but now we’re asking folks maybe if you had a new place. Anything new recently?
(Rep. Busby) Yeah. Yeah, uh, the new Italian place over on Manship, and I still can’t remember the name.
(Will) What was the name?
(Paul) Pulito Osteria.
(Rep. Busby) Yes.
(Will) There it is.
(Rep. Busby) Uh, only eaten there a couple of times, and I was with large groups, so they had a, had a limited, limited menu - just a couple of entrees to choose from - but, it’s my understanding, that the chef there - it was the chef from Parlor Market - where when Parlor Market was open, they had a, they had a meal there called the duck two-way .
(Will) Okay.
(Rep. Busby) And it was my favorite. It was my favorite. So, I’m hoping that I’ll find it on the menu over at the new, at the new restaurant.
(Will) That’s a perfect shoutout. As a matter of fact, we’ll double down on this one because my wife’s birthday was this past weekend. She loves Italian food. I just happened to ask Paul, “Hey, man, have you heard of a great new Italian spot or somewhere?” And this is exactly the one he recommended. So, we got a twofer on the shoutouts for…Pulito Osteria?
(Paul) That’s it. Yeah. And uh, don’t drink and drive, but there’s a brewery in the same –
(Will) Oh, yeah!
(Paul) in the same building. So, right. One-stop shop right there.
(Will) That’s perfect. That’s great.
(Paul) Chairman Busby, we’ll let you get out of here, but can you drop some contact information for us before you do?
(Rep. Busby) Sure. Absolutely. I can be reached, uh, at, uh, cbusby@house.ms.gov or CharlesBusby4Mississippi@, @email, CharlesBusby4Mississippi@gmail.com. Gmail.com, excuse me.
(Will) You got so many emails and contact -
(Rep. Busby) I do. I do. I got about a dozen of them. I have to try, to try to figure out which one we need to throw out there.
(Will) Yeah. Hey, it’s 2023, folks. You need to get in touch with the Chairman, give it, give his name a Google. Something will pop up. I promise you’ll, it’ll get you to him. But, thank you again so much for being here.
(Rep. Busby) Yes, sir. I appreciate you guys having me.
(Paul) Thank you, Chairman, We’ll go ahead and wrap things up. Thank you to our listeners to tuning in, for tuning in to The Extra Mile podcast. You can watch and listen to episodes by visiting GoMDOT.com/theextramile. Follow us on social media at MississippiDOT is the handle there. We want to thank our producer, Katey Hornsby, our editor, Drew Hall. They do a lot of work behind the scenes for us. And remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.