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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. On this show, pastor Matt sits down with his friends to answer your questions about life, Jesus, and the bible. Let's get into the episode.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Alright, guys. Welcome back to the debrief. It's been a good break, and I wanna apologize to all of our regular listeners. I apologize. It's been a busy season with the book, And so, we're gonna get more regular with this, and the debrief show is gonna let you guys know when these are coming out, what the schedule is.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I'm just so grateful to all of our faithful listeners, and appreciate your questions, and just your faithfulness to the show. And so, have a good friend here with me today. How many years have you been at Sandals Church?
Kelli Ayotte:At Sandals? I've been here since 02/2006. Okay. So what is that? Eighteen years?
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. Wow. Does that match?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And you were what? 11 when you
Kelli Ayotte:Approximately, yes. Yes. I was 19. I think it was 19.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And I did your interview. I'm not gonna bring it up.
Kelli Ayotte:Okay. Yes. So I yeah. That was in 2010 is when I got hired. Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Pink eye.
Kelli Ayotte:I was so prepared for you to mention And fun fact, that was the last time I had pink eye.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Okay.
Kelli Ayotte:I've gotten clean.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, I cured you of it. So embarrassed you. Because literally, I did an interview with her, and I'm like, what is wrong with your face?
Kelli Ayotte:But I showed up. You showed And you gave me the job.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I gave you the And you were. Because at Sandals Church, we are not afraid of diseases.
Kelli Ayotte:That's true.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Especially ones that you can give to others. Gosh. Right? Oh my gosh. So you showed up though.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I did. Were an amazing 19 year old.
Kelli Ayotte:Thank you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay. So I'm gonna see. Tyler doesn't know this. But for years, Kelly was in my phone Mhmm. As what was your name on my phone?
Kelli Ayotte:Dark Kelly.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Dark Kelly.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I know. So it's so terrible, but early on, to memorize names, so we had two Kellys on staff.
Kelli Ayotte:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And the other Kelly was blonde, which your hair color has changed multiple But she was blonde Kelly, and you were dark Kelly. Not like you were dark spiritually, or Well,
Kelli Ayotte:I had pink eye.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. You had pink eye. So But my wife hates it when she goes through my phone. Like, she'll see one armed Bob. Like, that's in my phone, because I have a friend named Bob with one arm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I'm just like, I wanna know which Bob it is when he calls. And so when it says one arm Bob, I know exactly who it is. But she's like, you cannot It's my phone. I can put people in for however I want. You know, and so I just have to deal with Tyler.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, I have to have multiple names. You know, just think about all the names. And you know at Sandals Church, it's like, who is this? And I have to flip through a Rolodex in my mind when somebody calls, so I know, okay, who is this? And they're like, hey, how's it going?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Oh my gosh. I have called the wrong person before, and realized halfway through my Q and A with him that I've dialed, and now I gotta play it off like I called intentionally. It's so bad.
Kelli Ayotte:Oh, that's rough.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It is. It is. Because I have people with the same And I was at a hotel this week with Tammy, and there were two Matt Browns staying in the hotel.
Kelli Ayotte:Oh my goodness.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I said, I'm Matt Brown. I lost my key. And they're like, which Matt Brown would you be?
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. Which Matt Brown would you be? What's the descriptive word
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:that you would assign to? Made me John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith.
Kelli Ayotte:Okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do remember that song? You know what I was? I do. Whenever we go out, people out, we shout, there goes John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith. All the young people are like, what just happened?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:This is from kids who had entertained themselves in the car. Yes. We didn't have iPads. We were iPads.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. We were the entertainment.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And car travel was awful.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. It was.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You almost died as a child.
Kelli Ayotte:Almost.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Facing my parents had a station wagon, and we looked back at traffic.
Kelli Ayotte:Yep.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So that you were guaranteed to get whiplashed in one case of
Kelli Ayotte:100%.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And no seat belts.
Kelli Ayotte:Well, I had seat belts, but different time.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:My parents had a Ford Taurus station wagon.
Kelli Ayotte:Oh, yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And we faced backwards on a bench seat, that way, you died. You know, with the glass right
Kelli Ayotte:in your Nothing was safe back then.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay. So give me an update. Introduce yourself, not as just Kelly Dark, but you actually have a name.
Kelli Ayotte:I do. It's Kelly Ayatt.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Kelli Ayotte:Yes. And I'm the kids director here at Sandals Church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So tell us about kids ministry. How's it going at Sandals Church?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I mean, you're not just at Hunter Park. You're over the entire kids ministry.
Kelli Ayotte:All of them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, all thousands of children.
Kelli Ayotte:All of them. Yeah. There are thousands. Yeah. So I've been in kids ministry for ten years almost.
Kelli Ayotte:The last year, I've been in this role. And what's super incredible, I would say things overall, are going well in Sandals We Church open our doors every weekend. We have a space for kids every single weekend. But I think one of the most incredible things is just the stories that are happening. We have kids that are making first time decisions to follow Jesus.
Kelli Ayotte:We have kids making baptism decisions. But I think the thing that I would say because I am here at Hunter Park on the weekends it's the stories that come from our leaders. The life change that's happening in our leaders is so inspiring and so incredible. Just hearing those across the board is really, really exciting.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I love it. I love it. I begged Kelly to take on this role. So what is your internet name? For a lot of our parents who have had younger kids, you have an internet name at Sandals Church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What is it?
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. It's Mrs. Coyote.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mrs. Coyote. Yes. Because kids can't say I oat.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. So yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it looks like I oat.
Kelli Ayotte:That is why. It's pronounced I it. But yes, everyone pronounces it I o t, and so coyote just kinda happened I love it. Years ago.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I love it. You're super famous on the Internet. Right up there with Blue's Clues. Alright.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What do we need most right now? Kids ministry, ministry, I think, this is what I believe. This is one of the most frustrating things for me. It has the biggest impact, and the least amount of Christians are willing to even have it on their radar. It drives me crazy.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. So what do we need right now? I mean, it is people, for sure. You know, if we want to get into logistics, like, our goal is that we have one leader for every eight kids. Because our kids, like, in elementary, they break into small groups.
Kelli Ayotte:And you can't have a great conversation when you have 25 kids. That's really challenging. But the reality is we don't have that every weekend. And so our team is really great at being agile and adapting to what we have. And also remembering that even when we have limitations, space or people, God still works in those spaces.
Kelli Ayotte:There's life change happening. There's incredible things happening. But often when I talk to people, I think serving in kids ministry can be very intimidating. Especially someone who's not a parent or doesn't have experience working with kids. You're like, what do I say to a child?
Kelli Ayotte:Like, how do I engage in conversation? I don't know the Bible. Like, I'm new to being a Christian myself. Like, how do I do this? I just had a conversation a couple weeks ago with someone.
Kelli Ayotte:She helps on our check-in team, so she never goes into the room with kids. But she kind of was like, hey, if you do need help, I can jump in, but I don't know my Bible. And I told her, was like, well, great news. You don't need to. We have everything covered for you.
Kelli Ayotte:We tell the stories for you. Everything's on video. We've got worship on video. We've got guides. All I need you to do is love kids and care about them getting to know who Jesus is, and we'll take care of the rest.
Kelli Ayotte:And really, like, the role of anybody serving in the ministry is just to build relationship with these kids. We have so many kids from different backgrounds, broken families. Like, across our campuses, the demographic is so vast and so different. We have kids that show up, and they may not experience the love of Jesus during the week the way that Jesus wants them to. And so sometimes it's just you giving a kid a high five might be the thing they need.
Kelli Ayotte:I don't even need you to, like, be theological right now. Like, just love this kid and see this kid. And so I think there's a lot of preconceived ideas of what it means to serve in children's ministry. And so anytime I get a chance to have a conversation, I'm like, we'll knock those off the list. Like, just show up and be here and love these kids.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I love that. So I got to say, you know, the last time I volunteered in kids ministry was last year. Mhmm. And I was intimidated.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And I had four year olds, and I had a young man that was very gassy, and he kept tooting on me. And I was like, you need to go to bathroom? And he's all, I have allergies. And I'm like, I don't think it's your nose that's the problem.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:My nose is affected. You know, that little guy, his parents still bring him out to me in the lobby, and now he's five. And he ultimately, he ended up having some heart issues. And he had to go in for a heart surgery. And so I was able to connect with the parents and pray for them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, think about your four year old having to go in for heart surgery. And so that's very, very scary.
Kelli Ayotte:Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so But he's doing better now. Very, very healthy. And I think ultimately, I don't remember if they did or didn't have surgery, I haven't talked to them recently, but I think they were holding off because they did some dietary changes. And that really, really helped him. But cute kid, it was a great time.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And again, seeing, you know, you see the kids and you see their parents, you hear their stories, and it just really helps your prayer life. You're like, okay, Lord, I'm gonna be praying for these people. So I just wanna encourage people, just know that kids are in my heart, and I truly truly believe it's one of the biggest ways to change the future, is to invest in a kid today. And there are so many old people today, they're like, oh, kids these days. And I'm like, well, you invest in them?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. You complain about them, but you didn't invest in them. And so, really, really connect. Absolutely. So who can help?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How can they help? Mhmm. What would you say?
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. So I think just to reiterate, like, anybody, you know, we do a background check, so we do wanna make sure that you're
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:safe. Not anybody.
Kelli Ayotte:Not you can sign up, but if your background check doesn't clear, we won't take you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Kelli Ayotte:But no, anybody I mean, we even have kids as young as 10 to 12 serving in different areas of our ministry. And so it can start young. But yeah, anybody who can pass a background check, anybody who cares about kids, even just a little bit, can jump in. And we have so many different areas, too. Like, talked about leading a small group.
Kelli Ayotte:But we have a check-in team. We have a team that serves kids with special needs. And we have incredible people that, during the week, they are at a job where they're working with kids on the spectrum. And then they're like, I'll give you my week and two. We have graphic design.
Kelli Ayotte:We have all these different areas. But yeah, so it's pretty much anybody who has a heart to do so. We have a lot of women on our team. And here's what I say when I address this situation. I love women.
Kelli Ayotte:Women are fantastic. But when I have a man that shows up to serve on a kids team, I'm like, I want you to know how important it is that you took this step to serve here. Because we do have a generation where have fathers that are not present. And so for the men that are showing up, willing to build a relationship and get in conversation with these kids and love on them is so, so important and so valuable. I'm thinking of two specific team members that we have that serve at Hunter Park.
Kelli Ayotte:One of them, he's this big older guy. He's a grandfather. And he has told me, like, when he signed up to to serve in in kids, was like kicking and screaming. He's like, I don't want to do this. But pastor Matt told me from stage that kids needs volunteers.
Kelli Ayotte:So he signed up. And he's like one of the best. He is so enthusiastic. He is so bought in, so excited to be here. And he's just made such an impact on the kids.
Kelli Ayotte:He serves in fifth and sixth grade. And like, what a perfect spot for him. We have another volunteer. His name is Robert. Shout out to Robert.
Kelli Ayotte:He also has an incredible story. He started serving in Sandals Kids about a year ago. And he serves on the kids team and youth team. Wow. He's like mid-30s, so he's younger.
Kelli Ayotte:You know, kind of has a backstory. But since serving on the team, number one, kids are so drawn to him. Yeah. He's fantastic. But for his own personal life, he has had an opportunity.
Kelli Ayotte:He works with a lot of nonbelievers. And so he's been able to kind of share his own experience with his coworkers. And over time, they've gotten curious. And what is so incredible about Robert so I actually got to baptize him on Super Bowl Sunday. Wow.
Kelli Ayotte:And then a couple weeks later, one of his coworkers showed up, and Robert got to baptize his coworker. So I'm like, again, I'm like, there's kids' lives changing, but like, you serve on this team and God's gonna do something with your life too.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. It's amazing. One of my favorite scenes of The Chosen is when he sits down with the kids who are curious about him and they find him, and he teaches them. And one of the things he teaches them is not all adults are safe. But he's safe.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I thought that was just It was just a really, really touching scene for me in that show. Alright. We got some tough questions today.
Kelli Ayotte:Okay. Let's do it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I love our audience. I love the questions that you guys send in. I love how transparent and real you guys are. But we're gonna start with Joe from Redlands. Joe, thank you for using your name, and letting us know where you're from, and we'll be praying for you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Joe says, I'm a stepfather of two children who are five and seven. It's really great, but also very hard. I've come from a typically Christian family with a strong father influence, but sometimes I feel I need to back off where a normal father would typically step in. Although I may be new to their lives, I feel it's important to play a pivotal role while they're young, before they're older, and wouldn't And so they'll take me serious in the father role. I've been having a really hard time finding Christian guidelines for step parents, and I wish you could help provide some advice.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Joe, thank you so much for your question. Thank you so much that you love a woman with kids. That's oftentimes what we see here at Sandals Church. There's a lot of people that come from broken marriages, and divorce is a reality. And so I just appreciate men that are willing to take on this added responsibility, because it is an added responsibility.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I just want to say, I'm grateful to you, and I'm praying for you. I'm sure you see this a lot. Yeah. What would you say to Joe?
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. I would first and foremost just celebrate the fact that Joe's asking. That just shows intentionality right out of the gate. It shows that he cares, and he he wants to do this well and do this right. So I think for sure, let's pause and applaud that.
Kelli Ayotte:Hearing that these kids are young, five and seven, there's some incredible opportunity there to really build a relationship. Because it's a little bit trickier if they were 15 and 17. Like, there's a lot of backtracking you have to do there. So Joe, I would definitely encourage you knowing that they are young. Like, they're in this place of life where they are looking for the influences.
Kelli Ayotte:And it sounds like your desire is to be a positive influence, which is fantastic. Without context of knowing, is biological dad in the picture, I don't know. But I think what I would say first is, you know, grace comes to mind. Grace for yourself, grace for these kids. Because you are building relationship, you're building trust, that takes time.
Kelli Ayotte:And I don't know how quickly it's going to happen. It could take several years to do so, depending on the dynamic of the family. So I think even pursuing unity in the family, what does that look like? If biological data is in the picture or whatever that looks like, unity is super, super important. And obviously, be in prayer.
Kelli Ayotte:Just I would say, first and foremost, Joe, in ensuring that you are continuing to pursue a personal relationship with Jesus. And I think when we do pursue Christ, like, our life naturally produces fruit and that overflows. And in the role of a parent, step parent or otherwise, our kids are watching us. And so what overflows, either verbally or otherwise, they're going to see that. They're going to pick up on it.
Kelli Ayotte:And so I trust that if Joe is kind of taking those steps and obviously, we're not looking for perfection, but those kids are going to see those efforts. Those kids are going to respond to that. But it is a process of building trust. And so giving yourself grace in that process, I think, is important. And two, I think, community.
Kelli Ayotte:Are there other men who maybe are in a stepfather role, maybe are a little bit ahead of him that he could kind of glean some wisdom from from their experiences, positive or negative, I think is also really valuable.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Man, Kelly, I think that's just really wise. Joe, I think what I would really hone in on is what Kelly said about, where's the other dad? So it's a big part of the puzzle. Because if there is no other dad in the picture, what I would encourage you to do is, if you're serious about that, is move towards adoption.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because what that's really saying is, I don't just love you, and I'm responsible for you, but legally, I want to adopt you. And so that's something that I think that's really, really important for dads that want to be the dad. Right. Now, if there's another dad that's in the picture, you're on really, really thin ice. And you've got to be really, really careful.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And just understand that all children that come from divorced families are victims of divorce. They had nothing to do with it, but they feel oftentimes very responsible for it. And so this is not to shame anybody that's been divorced, or is going through a divorce, just know this. Anyone who tells you divorce does not impact a child is lying. They are not telling you the truth, and it impacts boys more than girls.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That doesn't mean that it doesn't impact girls. It's just for whatever reason, the female gender is more resilient to not having the father figure in the home. Now, why do I say that? Because in most divorces, the father leaves. That's not every situation, that's in most situations.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And boys are severely impacted by the loss of their father being present at all times. So, if the dad is present, you're a competitor. And the kid is in this terrible situation, even if the guy's a bad dad, a bad guy, did bad things, that's not the kid's fault. And you gotta be very careful not to insult or put down their dad. Because he is a part of them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what you need to make sure is that you're affirming the dad, you're encouraging the dad, unless the dad is abusive or hurting the child, right? Then you need to intervene, and do so with your partner's blessing. And I realize that's a tough situation that may need to be navigated with a mediator. But what I would just say is what's important to the kids, that they know you love them. I love you and I care for you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I want to be, I would use these words, a father like figure in your life. So I have one dad, but I have tons of father like figures in my life. The Apostle Paul says, calls himself a father to Timothy and to Titus. Says that in the Bible, you have many people that influence you, but you have one father. The Apostle Paul says that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, just say, I wanna be a father like figure in your life. So then I would ask them, what does that look like to you? And I would just ask them. And then, hopefully, what you wanna hear from them is, what does it look like, you know, from you as a dad? What are you looking for?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. And I would say the opportunity to have fun, the opportunity to play, but also the opportunity to help your mom guide you. I wouldn't use the word discipline, know, stay away from spankings or anything like that. I think in this role, if you guys or a family chooses to spank, that needs to be the mom's role. I would not put my hands on them in any kind of physical way, and that may mean you gotta go outside and put hands on yourself sometimes, because co parenting your situation is a really, really tough thing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Parenting is hard. Parenting kids that aren't yours is even harder. And so just understand, these kids have had love broken in their life, and you want to be a part of healing that love in their life. And that's gonna take a lot of patience. And, you know, the model that you had from home, you know, a Christian home, Christian values, that's going to serve you, but just know, you're not in Kansas anymore.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You're in a new place. And sorry for the Wizard of Oz reference, but you know, that's a famous saying, We're not in Kansas anymore, And that's just Dorothy's recollection that, Hey, this is a different place. And you need to understand that although while you're a Christian, you're a Christian missionary in a family that's your own. And that's just what you signed up for. And as Christians, the most important thing is that we contextualize the gospel.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So we have missionaries and they have to contextualize the gospel to India, to Japan, to Russia, to wherever they're going. Their job is not to make those people live like Americans. Their job is to live like them in the context of Christianity. Missionaries struggle with it. Christians struggle with it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's why churches don't want to change. You know, it's us four and no more. You have to change. And write so think about our Love Is series. Love does not demand its own way.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And just every night before bed, pray first Corinthians 13 to yourself and with your wife. This is what love does, and you made a commitment to love this woman and to love these kids. And I would reiterate that, especially when you've had a tough evening. And there are gonna be tough evenings, because five and seven year olds don't wanna do homework. They don't wanna clean up their rooms.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They don't wanna put away their toys. And I think the magic of step parenting is to find ways to make what you want the kids to do fun. So instead of disciplining the kids for not cleaning up their room, make it a game. You know, make it a game. Instead of nagging them about their bed, make it a game.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Figure out how to make it fun. And then praise, praise, praise, praise, praise when they get it right. You know, they say 10 to one, it's probably a 100 to one. 100 praises to one. We can all remember criticism.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. We all forget praises very quickly. And so, just really, really try to be Christ like, and and have grace for yourself, like Kelly said, and for these kids. And I just wanna say thank you so much. But the reason that there aren't materials on this is because it's really hard.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So there are two conflicting issues in Christianity. One is the stance on divorce. Publishers tend to shy away from a curriculum like this, because they're worried that somehow they would be inadvertently celebrating divorce, or encouraging divorce. And so, divorce is to be avoided at all costs, you know, with very, very few exceptions. Abuse, abandonment, I mean, danger.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, we all need to really, really hold up the sanctity of marriage. It's a very, very special thing in the Christian world. Sometimes divorce happens, and we have to work within that. So that's why there isn't a bunch of materials. And so, you're just in new territory, you're a missionary in your own home, figure out a way.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I would just ask your wife, how can I love you? How can I serve you? So what is Christian leadership? It's service. How can I serve you?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How can I serve the kids? How can I be there for you? How can I support you? And sometimes, that simply means you're standing by while she disciplines. You're with her.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because you don't want a mom and dad, know, how they can You know, well dad said, or whatever. Because you don't wanna be captain fun when she's captain evil. So you wanna make sure that you're standing with her when she's disciplining, and help her do that. And just know that being a mom is really, really hard. And here's what the studies show.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:When a mom is loved and supported and feels secure and safe with her husband, she's the most amazing parent. When you take away safety and security from a mom, they're not the best. And that's what the information says. Go figure. God knew we needed each other.
Kelli Ayotte:And
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:so, I remind myself that all the time, when Tammy and I have conflict, or we have differences of opinion, it's our differences that make us stronger. So we are different biologically. We process things different mentally, emotionally. We are different in every way. We have different personalities.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so when we think the same, act the same, and are the same, we don't really compliment each other. It's when we have a difference of opinion, and I try to remind myself, okay, this is why God gave her to me, because she sees things I don't see, she feels things I don't feel, and she'll do things I won't do. And so then, you know, and she needs to think about that same thing. But you're rebuilding trust, you know, you didn't divorce your ex, but you are It's a crowded bedroom, my friend. And just understand that, that those pains are gonna be real insecurities, and in the back of her mind, even though she loves you and trusts you, she's going to be wondering if you're like the other guy.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that's just You know, when we fall in love with someone who is escaping an abusive, broken, or a marriage just where there was mistrust, even in dating. We're inheriting that. And so we have to understand that. And so we need to be patient, and loving, and kind in that. So go through first Corinthians 13, and really work through that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, Kelly, that was great. Was a tough
Kelli Ayotte:Sorry, one to jump
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:we started from the deep end Okay, the road, this is Laurie in Beaumont. My family has to sell our home, I'm sorry, Laurie, that. And move in with family. Who do not have faith. Oh gosh.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I moved in with my in laws for a couple of weeks, and felt like years. I think I aged in dog years. And my my in laws were great. Let me say that, but man, I I just My needed my own children love God, they love the Bible, but they also love their grandparents and listen to them. Oh, because they do not have faith.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Did I miss that? My family has to sell her home and move in with a family who do not have faith.
Kelli Ayotte:Right, okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do you have any words of wisdom on how to keep my children to keep their faith, even with family who are so against it while we temporarily stay there? I would just encourage your kids, I'm gonna jump in and I'll let you go, to just say, hey, we love grandma and grandpa, they're being very good to us right now, Because they're putting you up. And so you have to honor that. And so, I would just say, God and Jesus is something that's important to you, and that's something that only you share in that group, and with grandma and grandpa, it's not something that we share. It's something that we hope for, something that we long for, and something that we want to happen, but that's just not where they are right now.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, you know, I would do something sneaky, Laurie. I would just say, invite the grandparents to maybe do bedtime. Yeah. Mhmm. And then, hey, we say prayers at bedtime.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And because grandparents want to be a part of that. Mhmm. I mean, I don't know the situation. But if was a Buddhist, I'd be like, yeah, I'll say prayers.
Kelli Ayotte:I'll jump on in.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. What do you say for this?
Kelli Ayotte:Well, I would definitely say, kind of echoing that is, don't allow any sort of routines that you already have with your family stop because you're in this environment. So, yeah, if it's prayers at bedtime or books that you read, like, that. And maybe maybe they're not participating initially. But you're planting a seed. You're influencing.
Kelli Ayotte:And the other thing I would say too is this is an opportunity for incredible, honest, real conversation with your kids. Again, I don't know the full story of how the word in there was they're against our religion. Hopefully, it's not aggressive or unsafe in any way. But even I have a 10 year old and a six year old. They're in a public school.
Kelli Ayotte:We're having conversations of people are going to believe things, do things, say things, act in ways that you're going to see and experience. But we don't do that stuff, and this is why. And so even if there's any sort of conflicting information or conversation they're having with grandparents, those are teaching moments for sure to go, Okay, awesome. Let's talk through that. And you want to absolutely reinforce, we love these grandparents.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. They love you. They've provided a space for us in this transition period. But maybe they live a little bit differently than we do. So let's talk through that.
Kelli Ayotte:How did that make you feel? What are your thoughts on that? And I don't know how old the kids are, but those are teaching moments for sure. Like, every little moment in parenting is a discipleship moment. So take advantage of them when you can.
Kelli Ayotte:And continue to encourage relationship. And really true, like, you know, you're here for a reason. God's gonna work in every situation. Who knows what can come from this? Yeah.
Kelli Ayotte:What if you being under the same roof actually produces some curiosity that you wouldn't have expected or experienced otherwise? And just be in prayer over, Lord, like, why are we here? What are we learning? What do you want to teach? What is the influence you want us to have in this space?
Kelli Ayotte:While maintaining love and respect for one another and honor for one another. But I'm curious to see what incredible things might come out of this situation.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So Laurie, I would just see this as an opportunity. I would just encourage you watch your tongue. Watch what you say. Remember, you're in somebody else's house.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's tough. You know, Tammy and I, in 02/2009, after the crash, and a lot of people don't know what the crash was, but housing prices were very similar to what they are right now. And I know nobody thinks history ever repeats itself, but somehow it always does. And so, we couldn't have given away our house. Like, if I would have given you my house, I would have to give you 30,000 Like, it was that bad.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:People don't remember what it was like. And so we put our house up for rent, and we were gonna buy another house, because it was a good time to buy a house, was a bad time to sell a house. And so we moved in with a family from our church. These are good friends. These are good people.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And thank you, Jesus, we are still friends, by the grace of God. But I remember they had no kids.
Kelli Ayotte:Okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I'm gonna use the word velvet, but that's not the case. She bought a brand new suede couch from Pottery Barn. And it was white. Oh, no. My son is four.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And we had just finished dinner, and he is standing behind the couch, just kicking it to see what his shoe print will look like on it. Like, that's the only reason he's doing it. And I'm watching this, and I'm watching this woman who loves my son. Like, it was so hard. Because kids are dirty, filthy, and feral.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And if you don't know what feral is, Google it. It is a very, very challenging thing. And we got through it. And we were supposed to be there for like five weeks, and we were there five months. It was awful.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And not because, I still love Mark and Adri to death. I mean, we're still very, very close. But it's hard when you have another family with other rules, other, you know, time, and it was just so difficult. I can still remember their house had a curve in the hallway, and Ethan would have nightmares in the middle of night. And so we were in the guest room down the hall, and we could hear him every night run, you know, as he's sprinting, and he would never make the turn, because it's the middle of the night.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so he'd be Boom. And then You know, and I'm like, the monster's got you again, buddy? And so I would get up, and it was This is every night. And like, these friends had to get up and go to work at like 05:30 This in the is every night at like two in the morning, three in the morning. Rough.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Know, bodies are hitting the floor, somebody's throwing up, somebody's pooping. This is We were still in that age where, like, when you were kids at this age, like, you could break in and drive a truck through my living room, and it wouldn't seem odd. Yeah. So we did that. So just know, it's very, very difficult.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, know, Laurie, I just want to say, I'm sorry you're going through a tough time, but understand, this difficult time is gonna be something that impacts your relatives that bringing you in. And understand, they're doing you a favor, and try to be a gracious guest. And try to do that. And also understand, they may be, if you guys are tithers or givers to the church, they could become very, very critical of the fact that while you can't afford a home right now, you're giving to the church. So I would be prepared for that question.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I can understand. If I'm an atheist, and you can't pay your rent, but you're giving to the church, and that may be something that you might want to discuss with them. And for a season, take a break from that. Just to honor them, so that you can get on your own two feet, and get your own place. And I just would I just would encourage you to do that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:At least be prepared for that to come up, and watch what you spend. Like, I'm always I get very, very tired of people in the church that we help, and they get a new car. Or they get a new tattoo. I'm like, What are you doing? Like, we just paid for your groceries, you know?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Or they got brand name shoes, or whatever. And again, your finances aren't my business until it affects my finances. Then it's my business. And so just be aware of that. And again, I'm not saying you're a beggar or you need to grovel.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'm just saying be humble. And just understand these people are doing you a huge, huge favor. And as Christians, we should be known for our humility. And again, just say thank you so much. I'm assuming, Laurie, these aren't your parents?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's what I'm gonna Maybe they are, but try to be as humble as possible. And Tammy and I, we lived with her parents for a brief stint when we first got married, and her mom and dad were great. Tammy had a grandma, Grandma Helen, who was a little rough, smoker her whole life. Grandma Helen was rough. But we got through it, and I'm grateful for it, and it allowed us to get into another house.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that's what family is for. You know, Kennedy, my middle, came and lived with us for a period of time, because they had an issue in their house. Their house had, what do you call it, mold. And it was impacting their And I was like, Okay. You know, we gotta do this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it was for a couple of weeks. Mhmm. And it was challenging for them, challenging for us, but we got through it. Mhmm. Because adult kids are adults.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so you just have to understand that. And just know that when you go move back in with mom and dad, sometimes you revert a little bit. Yep. Yep. So really watch that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay. Annie Moss. She is our most faithful listener. She writes questions every we do. And Annie lives everywhere.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But this Annie lives in Yucaipa. Okay. Okay, Annie, we love you. My heart goes out for this story. I'm gonna go to you first on this one.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay. We adopted our daughter at age three. Thank you for doing that. And she has always struggled with needing constant attention. Now older, my daughter is determined to have a boyfriend, or even a girlfriend at this point, and is sneaking around in any way she can to make it happen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We are holding strong to the no dating rule, but we cannot seem to stop her. We are at a loss of what else to do and how to help her. How do you handle this with your kids? Which you can't answer that part. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I'll let you tackle the whole part, except because your kids aren't dating yet. I'm hoping you're
Kelli Ayotte:doing They're it not. Yes. No way. Okay. This might be the hardest question so far.
Kelli Ayotte:Oh, Okay. This is a challenge. Yeah, great question, though, and thank you so much for submitting that. So I think a couple of things that come to mind for me initially hearing there was an adoption story, which is fantastic. At three years old, I don't know the story of that little girl from the day of her birth to three years old.
Kelli Ayotte:I hope it wasn't a negative experience, but there is a possibility there might have been a situation between that time. I don't know. Sexual abuse, things like that can happen. And I think often, we see behaviors like the ones described when something like that has occurred at a young age. And specifically, I think in any instance, specifically parenting and kids, behaviors are usually indicative and tell a story about what's going on inside.
Kelli Ayotte:Is there something broken? Is there something unhealed? Is there something that hasn't been addressed? I even think of my own story. You're right.
Kelli Ayotte:My kids are not dating. Yeah. They're young.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Which I'm glad to hear.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But And they I might have needed a new children's minister.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. Yeah. But I started dating really young, like too young. And I've shared my story with you before where pornography is a significant part of my story. And I would say my behavior similarly of seeking attention, losing my identity, and being very unclear about who I was and what my identity is resulted in behaviors that are pretty much described right there.
Kelli Ayotte:And the issue was I had some heart problems going on in an unaddressed situation. And so I don't know how old their daughter is now, but I am curious, is there something in childhood that has happened that is causing these behaviors? And then I go to the identity piece. I know for me, the missing piece of knowing my value and that it rested in who Christ said I am, not boys, not dating. That is not where my value lied.
Kelli Ayotte:And it took me years to realize that. So I'm curious about the opportunity and conversation to go, did you know that you're valued? Did you know that your identity is in Christ? And really unpack what that means and how important that is. Years ago, I'm hoping this book is still a good book to recommend because it was really impactful for me at this point.
Kelli Ayotte:I plan to have my daughter read it. It's a book called Captivating. Okay. I've read that three times. And I read it at three different periods of my life.
Kelli Ayotte:And it talks all about just the value and identity piece, specifically in girls and women. And it was life changing to go, this is what the Lord says about me. And it completely changed my perspective. And yeah, my daughter's 10, and we're already having these conversations. And I've told her a little bit of my story.
Kelli Ayotte:I've told her, you will learn more of it as you get older. But I want you to know your value only rests in the Lord and who He says you are, because you're His. And no one else is going to validate or fulfill that. And so I think about this girl, and it breaks my heart that she would seek the attention and crave attention from everywhere else, because that's never a long standing solution at all. And it's the Lord.
Kelli Ayotte:He's the only one that can fulfill that long term.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. I remember the first time I heard your testimony, because you are beautiful, smart, this amazing person. And when I heard you share your battle with insecurity, I remember my jaw dropping. Because I'm like, Okay, you're incredible.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And she can rap. Like, lot of people don't know this, but
Kelli Ayotte:Secret's out.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, know. Like, she can literally lay down some raps, man. And I was like, oh my gosh. And dance. Like, you're like, it's disgusting how talented she is.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But even someone like you know, it just shows you you can't judge a book by its cover. You don't know what's going on in the inside. And so, you know, just know that with everyone. Like from the day I met you, I knew you were super competent, a very amazing person. And I remember that vividly, even think about that, even when you were 19.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I was like, okay, this girl's got it together. But, none of us have it together.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so that was incredible. So let me say this, Annie Moss, I'm so sorry that this is going on with your girl. So adoption is a wonderful thing, and it's a very, very challenging thing. You know, I think that here's the dream of adoption. We're gonna bring a child into our home, they're gonna be transformed by our love, They're gonna be healed.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it's just gonna be this redemptive story, right? And we write it out. And that's the hope. That's why you adopt. Sometimes that happens.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And sometimes these kids are damaged at an early age, and broken in ways that our love as parents can't heal. And so, you know, I think about Noble in our own church. Noble was adopted into the two most amazing people I know, and the two greatest lovers of people and of God that I know. But ultimately, their love wasn't enough to heal Noble in this life. So his heart has to be healed by Jesus in the next life.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's just The demons were just too large, because the wounds were so deep. And you know, when children are not held. So when a baby cries in the crib, right? So I'm alone, I'm afraid. They've done these studies.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:A mother doesn't even have to coddle or touch the baby. If the mother is just close to the child, and the infant can smell mom, it will stop crying.
Kelli Ayotte:Interesting.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what it's saying is So think about how we grow in the womb. Is it nine or ten months? They say nine, but it's like 10. It's 10.
Kelli Ayotte:Let's be real.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Who's the liar that said nine? It's like ten months. So for ten months, you're hearing a heartbeat. Your entire life is surrounded by your mom. And then your birth, and then if there's drugs involved, or an unwanted pregnancy, or something like that, so then you're separated from that, that's terrorizing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then you cry and no one comes. Or you're spanked or abused. And unfortunately, that happens to infants, and I mean, I've had to turn parents in. I remember one time holding a kid, and the shoulder was dislocated, and I'm like, Okay. And unfortunately, my friend, you know, had to The police had to be involved, because he shook his kid.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it's like, look, man. And he hadn't dealt with his own issues. So these kids don't bond, can't connect. And so really, human beings at our core have two core desires. Now, this isn't what the Bible says.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:This is what psychology says. So one desire is for sexual attention. So it says, I'm wanted. So for little girls, you're pretty, you're cute, you know, it's kind of what you struggled with. Who am I?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so that's normal. Right? That's part of the process where we learn to leave our mother and father and cling, as the Bible says, to our spouse. That's that sexual drive that makes us all a little crazy when we turn teenagers. Your daughter hit this sooner because there's a deeper need to be held at an early age.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So when you say she was clingy instantly, well, of course she was. Because she wasn't held. There's also the biological component that we need to talk about. Like LeBron James' son is gonna get drafted. My son is not getting drafted.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because he comes from my DNA. And we need to understand, DNA plays a part. And so when these kids come from chaotic, wild I mean, used the word crazy parents. You just have to understand, that's in the cookbook. And that's what you're getting.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:On top of, were there drugs involved in their pregnancy? The mom wasn't taking vitamins, the mom was doing meth. There's all these issues that really put this kid way behind other kids. So one is the sexual desire. Am I pretty?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Am I handsome? Am I wanted? And this is we're having the series on men. The greatest problem in the world today is men who feel like they are not sexually viable or wanted. It's a huge problem for males.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So think about young Muslim men that blow buildings up. What do they get when they die? 72 virgins. Oh. Why is that appealing to young men?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because the women on this earth have rejected me. And so I want And we don't think about this Vikings. Do you know who went on the ships to rape and pillage? It wasn't men with families.
Kelli Ayotte:It
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:was the unwanted. The unpicked men will get on a ship to go get British women, and the Anglo Saxons, because they were littler. You know, and they could force themselves. So this has been a problem for whatever. So sexual attention in men and women, this is an issue, even for your little church girl that you're raising, that loves Jesus with all her heart, she's gonna want that sexual attention.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:My wife, like, she doesn't want the sexual attention. But she wants to know, is she pretty? Does she look good? Like, she'll ask me five times about an outfit. How do I look?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:She wants validation from me, her husband, her sexual mate, You look good. I affirm. The other is admiration. So this is success, glory. It's why men work themselves to death.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's why we do what we do. It's why we try to make a difference in the world. And so both of those, for a young person, right, get wrapped up in sexuality. Because who are you at school? Those two are really connected for a period of time, until you get old and ugly like me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then people are like, well, Matt's successful. You know, the sexy days are gone. But when you're younger, those two things are really wrapped together, because it's attention. And so, you know, and she's willing to get attention from males or females. Because in our society now, that's socially acceptable, listen to this, and celebrate it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because being gay makes you unique now. So like when I was in high school, queer meant something's wrong with you. Now, queer, right, is something special about you. So it's flipped. And what do all teenagers want?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:To be special? To be admired? To be a part of something? So that's why the LGBTQ movement is so amazing. Because not only am I sexually wanted, but I'm a part of a group.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, Right. Underserved, underprivileged, and this is huge for white kids, because it's a really difficult time to be white. Like, joke with Donna, we had a good run. It's over. But, know, just times have changed.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that's just the reality. And so, really, really try to affirm in her who she is to you, and that you love her. And just understand, this could be a really frustrating journey. We brought my niece into our home when she was 16, and I just knew that the love of God was gonna transform her in my leadership and my superpowers. I mean, honestly, I probably thought and believed in pride that I was just a better parent than her, her own mom and dad.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So let's just do a show on my arrogance. And what I found out really quickly is it's impossible to lead a kid that thinks you're dumb, and you don't know. And what I learned very quickly was my niece just didn't think I knew better. And she's on her own journey. And, you know, and so we've had to release her to that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We still love her, we still care for her. And what I would say to your daughter is, is what we said to our niece, we love you no matter what. We're not going to affirm or support these choices. But unfortunately, this kid may need to go out on her own and get some bumps and bruises. But what I would do is maybe sit down with her and say, look, you know what we think.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We think you shouldn't date, and here's why. And really try to get her to understand that you're doing this for her because you love her, and you care for her. But at the end of the day, you cannot compete as a parent with the sexual attention that your teenager gets from another boy or another girl. It's just like you're battling hormones.
Kelli Ayotte:Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, you know, up to about 12 years old, you have more influence than you know what to do with. And then after that, just hang on. It's really, really hard. And so I would say with some kids, you've got to hold your boundaries. But with some kids, there are no boundaries.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And you've got to figure out which kid you have. Because some kids just see rules as being broken. And so what I would just say is I'm praying for you, and what I would do is sit her down and say, I really, really love you. I really, really care about you. Here's why we adopted you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because we want to give you a better life, and help her to see what that means. And so we've had families in church, you know, where the kid is like 17, and they're like, we can't do this anymore. Because the kid's bringing in drugs, bringing in boyfriends, you know, bringing in people when you go to sleep, and it's making the other kids unsafe. And you know, what I would encourage you to do is to hold to boundaries that you can keep. And so don't set her up.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because you know that there are some boundaries she can't keep. And so, like if a kid's sneaking out at night, man, I mean, you can't put your kid in a prison. Like, you're gonna be on the news. So just say, hey, here's why we want this. And at some point, this is gonna blow up in her face.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Use that as an opportunity to and that's what we did with our kids when they broke our rules. We had a no dating rule, our kids violated that. And so, and of course, it blew up in their face. It always does. And I said, this is why the rule exists.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And again, I just remember what it was like to be a teenager. Mhmm. I think some adults forget. And so we need to quit seeing ourselves as mom and dad, and put yourself in the situation of a teenager. And just remember what that felt like to be pimply, to be smelly, to not feel loved, to not feel seen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I felt small. You know, did you feel attractive? No. Which is crazy. Like, have you seen yourself in a mirror?
Kelli Ayotte:I mean, yes. Yeah. But I had braces and
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, me too. I had like, I had do you remember Bubba Gump? I had Bubba Gump lips from what's the movie? Forrest Gump. Gump.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You You're going to hang that on a tripwire. I mean, was me. With braces, these things were so big. Like, you know how some women make them look today? Like, that's what I look like as a 15 year old.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I was the first one to make duck lips popular. It was I have a picture of me my sophomore year at junior prom, and it's so bad. It's just like, I look like a character on SpongeBob. Oh my It's so bad. I got zits everywhere.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I got a bad haircut. Ugh. It's just like
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. Those are rough years.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. It's tough. But my head was growing. Yeah. Like, does anyone like, my skull was changing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, you know? It's too bad God doesn't let us, like, go in a like a what does a butterfly go into? A cocoon? Yeah. For like wouldn't it
Kelli Ayotte:be Like, cool if hide
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:us concealed you just get to put them in their room, and it turns into like this silk filled
Kelli Ayotte:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then they come out at eighteen, and they're like, we're done!
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah, like, oh, that's
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wouldn't it be great?
Kelli Ayotte:Looking good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It is. Yeah. But no, that change happens right in front of you. So Annie, I'm gonna be praying for you. And so again, how did I handle it with my kids?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I didn't have adopted kids. I had a niece that wasn't mine. And you know, I got her when she was 16. And those were real challenges. I still love my niece, I still have a relationship with my niece.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, I'm sure there are probably some things that, you know, she wishes she would have listened to, as we all do.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But I would just say, hang on, and don't create boundaries you're not willing to enforce. So be very, very careful about that. So I want to know, are there other kids in the home? Because that's what I told my niece. I said, Look, if you do this, here's what I'm gonna do, because I have three kids behind you, and the issue was running away.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I said, If you run away, I said, That's it. Because I don't want to set precedent with the other three that you can run away and come back. So I said, I love you, but if you run away, you can't come back. So that was a boundary that I said, and ultimately I enforced. And it was hard, because I really, really loved the kid.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And she was 17, and beautiful, but insecure. You know? And at the end of the day, I wasn't her But I tell you what, Tammy and I had a lot of sleepless nights, and I think two times in our marriage I've asked her to submit to me. Two times. And one of the times was with my niece.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it was because Tammy and my niece got so heated with each
Kelli Ayotte:other. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know? And so it's one thing, you know, when you're the aunt and the uncle, you're cool. Yeah. You become the parent, not cool. The day it happens, not cool.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I don't think we were prepared for that. Because when you're the when you're the mom and dad, you're the enforcer. Yeah.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. I was gonna jump in too.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. In.
Kelli Ayotte:Say the importance of the the unified team between mom and dad too. Specifically, I think in dating and, you know, again, don't I have teenagers, so you can pray for me when that season comes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's happening. It's coming to a theater
Kelli Ayotte:near Yeah. I know for me, I've told you know, my husband and I have had so many conversations about our daughter, who's the 10 year old. And I said, as she steps into these years of puberty and dating and having crushes, you have to remain present. That's where you need to press in. Like her the reminder of her value and importance, I want her to hear it from you.
Kelli Ayotte:Because I think you get to a point with girls, you're like, mom says I'm pretty and whatever because she's my mom. But to hear it from a father and your parents being unified in this communication is so, so important to just continue to reinforce that truth. Doesn't mean you're going to get perfect results. But I think keeping that in mind and being on the same page, I think, speaks volumes to the child.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah, be present. I mean, I think that's the best thing my dad did is he was present. You know, he didn't have daughters, but he dated his sons. So the whole story of the bike in my Miracles book comes out of a date.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:A date night with my dad. And so I was just sharing with that story in Palm Springs last week. I was preaching out there, and someone said, man, you should've asked for a Ferrari. I was like, you just ruined my miracle, man. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I'll be praying for you. And again, let me say this, Annie, a podcast isn't a pastor. So if you go to one of our campuses, what I would love you to do is sit down with a pastor, sit down with one of our youth leaders who can see the whole field, right? So I'm This is like a radio broadcast. I can't see the field.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I don't know the players, and I'm trying to give you advice on your life. Sit down with the pastor, let them figure out the situation so they know all the pieces, and and let them pastor you. And I think this is this is one of the things that if I can encourage every listener in the debrief, is is allow yourself to be pastored. I know that's scary, because the church abuses and some pastors are evil. I do my best to not let evil people hear.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Unfortunately, from time to time, they sneak in. It would be so nice if evil people raised their hands, but they don't. People get into ministry for all kinds of reasons. I want the people who are gifted and called by God, and want to serve God. And so let someone pastor you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's just so important. You know, when my dad was diagnosed with dementia, I called our campus pastor here and cried on the phone to him. And just said, I need you to be the pastor, because I need to be the son. So I don't just say this to you guys, I go and meet with a group of pastors in Orange County, a retired pastor named Kenton Beshore, he was the pastor at Mariners Church for, I don't know, I think forty years. And he pastors me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He's my pastor. And pray for me, because one day, you know, a lot of those older guys will be dead, and I'll be the old guy. And so I'll have to let younger guys pastor me. We're all sheep. The Bible says it two twelve times.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Many times it says, like sheep, we've all gone astray. We need to be pastored. And that's someone who loves us, and wants the best for our life, and helps deliver us from the wolf. And that's just what we need, and that language is so important to us. So just want you to know, I'm praying for you and your daughter.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I would encourage you guys to pray. When she's gone, I would pray over her room. I would pray over your house. And if she's willing, don't make it weird, I don't want her to feel like she's in Shiny Happy People, or what's that other show where they're all weirdo religious people, they wear the red outfits? So Handmaid's I didn't watch I couldn't watch Handmaid's Tale, and here's why.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I told my wife, I said, that's what the world thinks we do. They think we're all weirdos like I was like, I can't watch this because it reinforces that all religions are wacky. And they're just not. People are wacky. Some people get born again and get healthy.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And, you know, that's what people tell me about Sandals Church. When they come to that, I can't believe how healthy it is. Now, we're not perfect. But we're a healthy church with healthy leadership, and we're trying.
Kelli Ayotte:So Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So anyways, I've talked long enough for that one. I'm praying for you. Alright. Last question. Anthony from Hemet.
Kelli Ayotte:Alright.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Coming in hot from Hemet.
Kelli Ayotte:Here we go.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Our six year old son is at that age where he's losing teeth. I I love that age. It is the cutest.
Kelli Ayotte:We're in it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, my gosh. My wife and I told him about the tooth fairy. I'm coming to your house because the tooth fairy pays. But now, I'm second guessing that decision. Oh, I've been there.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. I don't want him to conflate Jesus with Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Sure. How do we sort How do we sort of pull back the layers and allow him to be imaginative without ruining his faith? I love this question, Anthony.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You are such an amazing dad. But at the same time, being real with him about these topics. So if I'm a parent, and I'm in the car with my kids, and I celebrate Santa, and or don't, I would press pause and listen to this alone, before I let my kids listen to it. Because I don't want to ruin any families, or cause any conflict. So I'm gonna give you a second to press pause, and now it's on you.
Kelli Ayotte:Great. Great.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay. You ready? You want to jump in first?
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. Sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Tooth fairy time?
Kelli Ayotte:I've got a six year old, and just this last week, we did some tooth fairy deliveries in our house. Yes. So my husband decided $5 a tooth.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Woah. I'm moving in.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. I said, how did we get here? And he was like, inflation's a real thing. I was like, okay. I love you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:$5.
Kelli Ayotte:$5 a tooth. Anyways, k. We'll get back to
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I wanna be with the coyote coyotes.
Kelli Ayotte:I'm gonna start pulling out my teeth is what I'm gonna start doing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You're green teeth. Don't do that.
Kelli Ayotte:Thank you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because let me tell you something. Nothing makes you less attractive than missing
Kelli Ayotte:a tooth. Than a funky tooth.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, you can be a runway model, and if I pop out a tooth, you are not
Kelli Ayotte:getting work. Little snaggle. Yeah. Yeah. However, so no.
Kelli Ayotte:I think this is a great question, and it's a conversation that for sure we've talked about in our home. I grew up in a home. Santa existed. Okay. Parents They did were creative.
Kelli Ayotte:My dad put like footprints on the floor, crumbled up carrots outside of the window. Santa was magical and wonderful. But I also did grow up in a house where we went to church. And so I feel like I was a child that didn't get them confused. Like, I got like, yes, Santa's magic, but also I know we do Christmas because Jesus.
Kelli Ayotte:My husband grew up at home. Santa did not exist. So we got married.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He was just fat and moving in.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. And we were like, what do we do? So we don't do Santa in our And to be honest, I think a huge chunk of that was I don't have the energy to try to communicate the truth of Jesus and wrap all these presents and also do Santa. But I think the other piece was specifically, I didn't want to put anything that did compete. So I'm like, you do too much Santa.
Kelli Ayotte:Now you've lost the Jesus. And so I think it was just like and my and my kids, we've talked about Saint Nicholas. Like, Saint Nicholas is real. We can talk about history. But we made a decision not to do Santa.
Kelli Ayotte:We don't do the Easter bunny. We do do the tooth fairy. And I would say, for me, I think discernment comes into this. There's a couple of things you think through of like, you you as a team decide and discern. Like, do we want to do that?
Kelli Ayotte:Or do we just want to call it across the board? I think knowing your kids, getting to know them, if I lie to them this long and they find out the truth, is it going to destroy them? My daughter, when she found out the truth, got excited that she could now help, you know, do Tooth Fairy stuff for her little brother. But if you have a kid that's very black and white and values like truth and nothing else, I might be careful, like introducing things like the tooth fairy. But I think for us, my husband and I are very creative and it's actually been kind of fun to do it.
Kelli Ayotte:But I don't feel like it's competing with any sort of truth component. But again, like I mentioned earlier, I think everything in parenting is a is a discipleship moment. And so we talk a lot about like because when my kids started losing their teeth, they were like, what is happening? Why are teeth falling out of my mouth? It's awful.
Kelli Ayotte:So it was a conversation of, hey, God made our bodies. This is what they do. This is the process they go through. So you can even kind of pair it. You can pair fun and truth in the same space.
Kelli Ayotte:But I do think it's discernment. So again, out of all the invisible magical creatures that we could do, Tooth is the only one we do in our And it's worked. Yeah. And $5 a tooth, we better finish up this Tooth Fairy thing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I love what you said because I've had nightmares. I haven't had it in long time, but I used have nightmares when my teeth fell out. Have you guys ever had that?
Kelli Ayotte:I have not.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Like, would like in my my dream, I'd be like, and they they would just like fall out. So somebody told me it's a fear of aging. Oh. Now that I'm old, I don't have that because I'm already there.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So You're weird. But yeah, when I was younger, like, I I would have this reoccurring dream that my my teeth would fall out. So we came up with a decision very similar to yours. And again, I don't think that there's a right or wrong answer here. I think that you, as the parents, are the spiritual leader of your home.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I would just say, I would do whatever the Holy Spirit convicts you to do. And so I grew up in a Christian home, we celebrated Santa, I thought Santa was real. But here's what was a problem in our home. My parents were poor, but my mom took us to see Santa. And again, I love my mom, but you go and you tell Santa what you want, and my brother asked for something we couldn't afford.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So see, that's where the He challenge asked for a train, and my mom couldn't afford the train. And my mom is like 76 years old and still in therapy about this issue, because it really bothered her that Santa made a promise. Yeah. Because he's not real. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's hard. That she couldn't afford to do. And so we really struggled, you know, because my wife's parents didn't attend church, they weren't Christians. They would have said they were Christians, but they became Christians, attended church, got baptized at Sandals, started following Jesus at Sandals. So I don't wanna but you know, they never went to church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:My wife went to Christian school, you know, she had your mother-in-law as the librarian for years. So was her experience with church was school. So we really struggled with this. So I made the decision, I think Madison was three years old, and I said, tonight Santa's gonna come down the chimney. And I remember her looking up the chimney and believing me, and like Anthony, it bothered me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And and so I I told Tan, I don't feel comfortable with this. In that moment, I don't feel comfortable. And so what we decided after that year, obviously, because I didn't want to be like, just kidding, no fat hands coming down the chimney. We decided that Santa is real, and mom and dad are Santa.
Kelli Ayotte:Okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so we didn't engage him with her, we're his helpers or whatever. Santa's real on Christmas Eve, mom and dad, we become Santa, and we put special gifts in his name or whatever. So my kids got Santa their whole life. But what's funny is my son decided that we were not being honest, and that Santa was real, because he had friends at school. So I was just like, we have failed all the way around.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So we didn't do Santa. I can tell you where the Easter bunny comes from in just a second.
Scott Schutte:A lot
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:of Christians don't know this. But we did do the Tooth Fairy. And I don't know why that never bothered me. Yeah. And I think it's because I felt like Santa took away from Jesus, and that's what bothered me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. There's not something in the Bible like the tooth fairy that I'm aware I've read it a lot. Maybe somebody can help me if I've missed the tooth fairy somewhere. But we did the tooth fairy, and I never thought about it, and Tammy did Pixie Dust, and Mhmm. You know, we took the kids to Disneyland to see Tinker Bell, and all that stuff.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So the Tooth Fairy never bothered me. But what we did is, for us, our kids got three presents, because Jesus got three presents. Gold Frank is a myrrh. And so we're trying to limit it. And so some families, we're all over the place, some of us can barely get a gift, and so I don't want to minimize your financial situation.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Our kids got too much. They had living grandparents on both sides. It was We needed a U Haul after Christmas. It was a problem. So trying to limit it, because it's really hard to raise your kids, Christmas is all about Jesus, and yet it's all about you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So trying to limit that. All of our ornaments on our tree are the nativity. Every single thing. So we only have nativities on our tree. And that's not to say, go out and do that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It was hard, because my mom would buy us Christmas ornaments every year, and I'd be like, this is not going on the tree, mom. If it's not Jesus, it's not going on the tree. We put a cross at the top of the tree, and some Christians won't even celebrate the Christmas tree, because they believe it's paganism, whatever, and so, you know, I just, again, the Apostle Paul says that what we do with pagan philosophies is that we take them down and make them submit to Christ. Almost every early church sanctuary was a pagan temple before it was a church. I'm okay with a symbol being something that was pagan, it's why we use the Enneagram here at Sandals Church.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Some Christians lose their minds. I'm like, like, truth is truth, man. It's all God's truth. And if the devil's strategy is to help us be real with ourselves, it's a bad strategy. Because I think what he wants to do is confuse us now.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do Christians go too far, get nutty, whatever? So we did that with our kids, but our son believed. With the Easter bunny, we did Easter We didn't ever like I guess, does the Easter bunny bring a basket? Is that what he does? Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, we never did that.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah. And hide Hide things.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Easter basket? Yeah, we didn't do that. We didn't do Elf on the Shelf either. We're too old for that. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That scares kids.
Kelli Ayotte:It's weird.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Have you seen the YouTube one where the kid, they mark on the kid's face and they put the marker in the elf's hand? Just Something feels was terrified of Spider Man. I can't imagine scaring your kid to death with Elf on the Shelf. He moves throughout your house at night while you're sleeping.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah, anxiety's already a real thing. We don't need to add to Oh
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:my gosh. So you know, we didn't do that. But a lot of people don't know that the Easter egg and the Easter bunny actually are Christian traditions, and it comes from the twelfth century. And I and I know people say, well, Easter is a goddess of whatever. And so you have to understand that in English, we we name it Easter because of the month that it comes in.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And in the Germanic language at the time, the month that Easter lands in was Now, there was a cult of people who worshipped the God of and we only know that because a Christian monk wrote one line in his journal in December. So anybody who tells you, and I've looked this up, anybody who tells you they know the pagan roots of Easter are lying. It comes from one verse. It's the only thing ever been produced about a monk who says there were these people who used to worship the god, but that's probably also affiliated with the month. And just to blow your minds, many of our months are named after either planets, stars, pagan gods, emperors.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Everybody who's freaking out who thinks that we've escaped this Augustus. Julius? Julius Caesar. Is June Mars? March is Mars?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I think March is Mars. I have to go back and look at them all. September, Septimus, the Roman calendar had ten months, they added two, so that's why they kind of like we add holidays, they added two emperors' names. But a lot of the things that we just do are pagan in origin, because people were pagans.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then they got converted, and so Christians just need to relax, take a chill pill, and decide for yourself what you wanna do. But what I would say is, for me, the issue with Christmas was the competition. Right. I wanted my kids to know And same thing with Easter. Easter is not about Easter bunny.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mm-mm. It's about Jesus dying on the cross. So those two events. So where did the Easter bunny come from, and where did the egg come from? The Easter bunny comes from a Western German brown haired rabbit.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So the OG Easter rabbit's brown.
Kelli Ayotte:He's been Not as cute and fun.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. He's been, yeah, overtaken by the white rabbit, know, we all know how that goes. So the original rabbit is brown, and so not to be gross if children are listening, so human beings, right, when a woman gets pregnant, right, the egg is in a certain position at a time, and if there happens to be sperm present, it can inseminate and we get a baby. Rabbits A female rabbit's eggs drop during sex. That's why they get pregnant like that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Interesting. Yeah. So it sends an egg down the chute when they're That's why they get You know, you're multiplying like rabbits. But the brown hair got pregnant so quickly, and they didn't have science, they didn't have X-ray machines, they thought the rabbit could be impregnated twice. Born again.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's where it comes from.
Kelli Ayotte:Interesting.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so, right? As Christians, we're born again, there's new life, that's where it comes from. And the Easter egg comes from the only food that could survive Lent was an egg. So eggs were very precious, protein rich, and people were very, very poor. So you would paint the egg red for the blood of Jesus, or green for the hope of new life, and then you would hide it, so that no one ate it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow. Because people were starving.
Kelli Ayotte:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so an egg, if it's buried somewhere that's cool, can last forty days of Lent. So then on Easter morning, what do we do? Where do we put the eggs? We look for them, the Easter egg hunt. And so you can imagine, kids that are malnourished and starving get to eat a boiled egg, which would have been considered like, you know, going to what's a super expensive restaurant?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:My mind is blank. Ruth's Chris. That's the one I was thinking of. Dude, you and I are on the same page. That's like going to Ruth's Chris.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, like a super expensive steak house because people did not eat protein. And malnutrition was a huge huge issue in the Middle Ages in the church. And so it was a was a neat thing. And so when they come to America, they bring this tradition of looking for the Easter egg, and you paint it to decorate it.
Kelli Ayotte:That's fascinating.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So that's where it comes from. And I've literally done the research. And I know someone's gonna fire off an email, because you read something on Zillow. Not Zillow, Google, sorry.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I just want you to know. I've read the original sources. I've traced it all the way back to where it comes from, as far as we know. You know, Easter is just the German word for that month, on which the Christian holiday of celebrating the resurrection happened. So that's why it became Easter.
Kelli Ayotte:So interesting.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I know. See how we all learn today? So parents, just know, parenting is an experiment on little children, and it matters. So do the best that you can.
Scott Schutte:Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's what I told my oldest daughter. All the counseling is for free, and it's on me. We didn't know what were doing. You are a guinea pig.
Kelli Ayotte:For sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So Alright. Thank you so much for listening today, Kelly. Thank you for being on We the love you guys. Thank you for entrusting us with these really, really hard questions. And parenting is hard, but it's worth it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so let me encourage everybody. Let's help these parents out. Let's volunteer on Sundays, let's volunteer on Wednesday nights, let's get involved in kids' lives, let's help them to know that they matter. And just know, you know, all kids are trying to find their way, they're trying to figure out who they are. And especially those of you who are raising teenagers, the number one question of a teenager is identity.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Who am I? And you know, I don't think that the Christians, we announced loud enough and well enough that who you are is in Christ, it's not in your sexual identity, it's not in your wealth, it's not in the clothes you wear, and it's not in the color of your skin, it's in Jesus. And so we've got to do that together to help these kids out. Alright. I love you guys.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:God bless. Join us next time and submit your questions to the debrief show. The show is only as good as your questions.
Kelli Ayotte:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Alright. Love you guys. See you next week.
Scott Schutte:Thanks for checking out this episode. If you'd like to support this podcast, you can donate at give.sc. This podcast is a way for pastor Matt Brown to answer your questions about topics like the Bible, God, relationships, and culture. Like pastor Matt often says on the show, a podcast is not a pastor. If you like prayer or need to speak with someone about a specific situation you were going through, you can email us at help@sandalschurch.com.
Scott Schutte:If you enjoy this podcast, please like, comment, and subscribe. Thanks for being a debrief listener.