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Most of the powerful, unguarded conversations we have as practitioners happen behind the scenes. This podcast was created to bring those conversations forward. It’s a space for real talk about client work, presence, creating powerful containers for waking others up, embodied change, and the ways we continue to grow and meet our edges as we guide others.
00;00;04;12 - 00;00;31;25
Unknown
Welcome to Inside the Practitioner's Path. I'm Eli Coats, and I'm Barb Patterson. This is a private space for those doing this work and those feeling called to it, who want to live what they teach and explore. The real behind the scenes happenings about our work, ourselves, and the edges we meet along the way. It's unfiltered and unedited, just like us talking about how this work shapes us right alongside our clients.
00;00;32;02 - 00;01;00;03
Unknown
We share what moves us, what makes us laugh, and what we're still figuring out. This is about presence, practice, and community. The ongoing work of being human while helping other humans. Well. Welcome inside. I'm taking too long. Welcome. Should be like that. Okay. Welcome. Welcome. Enough. Oh! It's impossible. Hey, everybody. Welcome. We're just so glad you're here. I love anything you want to add to that.
00;01;00;04 - 00;01;07;27
Unknown
Welcome inside.
00;01;08;00 - 00;01;35;23
Unknown
Hi everyone. Welcome to Inside the Practitioner's Path. I'm Eli Coats. Hi. And this is Barb. And today our topic is when clients want you to be someone you're not. So we're going to explore what happens when our clients are asking us to do things or guide them in ways that we just don't agree with. And we're not going to do.
00;01;35;25 - 00;02;00;07
Unknown
That's what I do. Yeah. And I think the, you know, some examples of this is they want you to be more structured. They want you to hold them accountable. They want you to have a different personality. They want you to be harder on them. They want to talk about something that maybe you have realized isn't really helpful to them.
00;02;00;10 - 00;02;22;16
Unknown
So there's all kinds of ways in which a client can be asking you to do it different than you are, or be different than you are. And I'm going to start by sharing an example where I was, working with this leader, and he had a ton of enthusiasm. He was very much a go getter, really bright, and had this big heart.
00;02;22;16 - 00;02;54;04
Unknown
But man, was he sass fell into that category of somebody who's read a lot. So they know a lot. And, you know, he was really interested in wanting to apply everything he learned. Like he was just really enthusiastic about that. So what would happen is often it was challenging to get him to listen for what I was saying, that was new or different or deeper or trying to get him to have impact.
00;02;54;04 - 00;03;27;15
Unknown
But like a lot of people, he was filtering everything into, oh, that's like this thing. Oh, did you read that book that sounds like this. And so, you know, had eventually we talked about listening and there was a level of listening that wasn't sorting, wasn't the intellect sorting through and looking for references. And, you know, we talked about impact and how his listening was potentially kind of getting in the way of his ability to be impacted in a deeper way beyond the intellect.
00;03;27;15 - 00;03;53;29
Unknown
And as we all know, that real change, real shifts happen when people see something in a deeper way, when it lands inside the body, when it's an when it resonates, you know that inner shift first. But when people are challenged to go beyond the intellect, that process can be a little bit longer than normal. Maybe. Or I don't even know what normal is now that that came out of my mouth.
00;03;54;02 - 00;04;22;27
Unknown
But so that did help. Like he did start to get a sense of the way he was listening, but he so much wanted me to like be giving him more to do. Like he wanted homework, he wanted exercises, he wanted things to listen to. But what I could feel inside was all those things would activate his intellect. All the things that he would use to thinking, learning them.
00;04;23;00 - 00;04;57;06
Unknown
Change was via the intellect and via thinking. But I knew that there was a whole new world available to him. If he could start to get a sense of like a felt sense of his inner climate and being able to slow down and what that would offer him. And so we started to have conversations and that direction and, you know, I told them at one point that I was trying to talk beyond his intellect.
00;04;57;13 - 00;05;28;03
Unknown
We're not we don't want to speak to the part that thinks it knows everything. Right. And so I knew that we were making progress and him slowing down. We were making progress and helping him see that, the books, the podcasts, the consumption that to do were actually keeping him from having a deeper realization and that we were looking for realization, not just more information.
00;05;28;03 - 00;06;04;04
Unknown
And, you know, what's fascinating about that is I want to say that there have been other people that I have felt really clear that they needed some bridges between our sessions. So I was sending them things, having them read things. So just to say this is not a one size fits all. But for him in particular, I just knew if I gave him what he thought he needed and wanted, it was going to do the exact opposite of what would be beneficial for him, and he just didn't have enough awareness yet to understand that.
00;06;04;04 - 00;06;31;29
Unknown
So I had to be with him and talk to him about it. And explain why, theoretically, he got back. He he could kind of see it, you know, at first, but then eventually him seeing there was new levels to slow down and that there was a different kind of learning available to him other than intellectual or conceptual, or he started to realize like, oh, there's so much information in that direction internally.
00;06;31;29 - 00;07;16;05
Unknown
So yeah, that's one story. That's one story. I love that, and I feel like it's kind of on us as coaches and practitioners to say what we say, what we see, you know, say what we know about what somebody is looking for, even if it totally messes with their paradigm. And it's yeah, it feels like a little level of leadership that has taken me a long time to find my footing in, when somebody is coming who is really, like, sharp and bright like that, or it's like, oh, it's going to be a journey to find a way to to get their buy in, in a way to try and try to for them
00;07;16;05 - 00;07;39;08
Unknown
to try to see how change is really created. And I love that you said that. Like, really it's different to have a, like an insight based like a not just an intellectual understanding of something, but to really have it drop in. Yeah. So I love what you just shared, and I feel like I have so many examples with young adults.
00;07;39;10 - 00;08;07;01
Unknown
I had several come to mind where they want me to be, like a taskmaster, to try to help them get more disciplined and get more on it and get get their shit together so that their life can feel better. Really, from the outside in. And I just, I know not to bite it, that, you know, that it just feels like, really barking up the wrong tree.
00;08;07;03 - 00;08;35;26
Unknown
And I have one, one example of I'm going to actually be like, keep them anonymous in a way. But I worked with some professional athletes several years ago, was actually 2014, and they were either going to quit their their sport because they were burnt out. They had been doing it for 15 years or so, but they really wanted to try to make one more run at the Olympics, which was in 2016.
00;08;35;28 - 00;09;01;24
Unknown
They were they came into my awareness. They were looking for the thing that might give them the the competitive edge to like, get to the Olympics so that, you know, they could really have the best chances possible of getting there. And within a few conversations, I learned that they were totally worn down. And it was just like the way they would talk about going toward the Olympics.
00;09;01;24 - 00;09;45;02
Unknown
It was like we got a really big uphill battle. We got to like, really prepare and get all of, you know, just get everything tuned in. And what's the term the kids use now? Like really lock in and just get focused. And so we basically they wanted me to almost be like a project manager of like we have Pete, we have, you know, the strength and conditioning we have, everything we're doing along with practicing and, and within a few sessions, it became very clear to me that there was a level of pressure that was just like, that's what was destroying their joy and creating all this burnout.
00;09;45;05 - 00;10;10;01
Unknown
They felt this pressure inside, and the pressure was really coming from like, it was almost like they were in a constant state of punishing themselves for not being good enough. Like any little error or any little, like missed appointment. Anything that they were doing that in their mind looked like they were slacking or just not being all in.
00;10;10;03 - 00;10;32;28
Unknown
They were so hard on themselves. And so before we decided to commit to working together, and we worked together for almost three years in different ways. Sometimes it was workshops, sometimes it was one on one, sometimes it was teamwork. The focus. I said, hey, the focus, I the thing I think I could support you with the most in getting to the Olympics.
00;10;33;00 - 00;10;50;06
Unknown
I want you to have your your goal. And I made it actually, I made like a visualization of them being at the Olympics that I sent to them. Like, I was really all in on what they wanted. But I said, I feel like we have to get bought into this idea that you'll have the best chances of getting there.
00;10;50;08 - 00;11;17;24
Unknown
If you're enjoying your experience doing the sport. Like. And it was just like silence, you know, crickets. Like, how how does that go together? The like this really big goal being accomplished through more joy and more ease. And we just I remember sitting and we were sitting on those big, yoga balls sitting together and talking about it.
00;11;17;24 - 00;11;38;26
Unknown
And just like I want you all to consider how this makes sense. Like, truly listen to what I'm saying. If you're enjoying it more, what would you have to let go of? I was like, well, we'd have to like, go punishing ourselves constantly. That's the thing that sucks the joy out. We'd have to not read the reviews that are written about us after every game.
00;11;38;26 - 00;12;05;23
Unknown
That way, you know, and every match we'd have to, what they they developed a practice, a gratitude practice before each match. They and they also one big thing we talked about was not constantly measuring their progress, but really enjoying each each thing as it happened, each practice, each event, each tournament, all the traveling, like really taking it one thing at a time.
00;12;05;26 - 00;12;31;11
Unknown
And really learning about their mind and learning about how it creates huge dramatic stories that create all sorts of suffering, or how it can really help them be present and enjoying what they're experiencing. And they did make it to the Olympics. They went, yeah, they went from like 100 rank of about 100 in the world, in the country, all the way to the top two team tattoos.
00;12;31;14 - 00;13;03;09
Unknown
So how I see it too, I think. So it's second ranked team. I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure either. They were the top two team. To get there they had to do that and they did it. And part of the reason they got there was they played more tournaments than any other team. And part of the reason they played more tournaments is that they were healthier physically than any other team, and they were not burnt out.
00;13;03;11 - 00;13;30;07
Unknown
And they had so much resiliency. They, they would whatever they and they actually never won a tournament which is this huge barometer in their sport that they would use to determine, are we on track or off track? Are we winning tournaments? And again, their focus was like, nope, don't look ahead, just stay in. Are we enjoying ourselves? Are we being neutral and learning about things that we can tweak as we go?
00;13;30;10 - 00;14;08;21
Unknown
Are we cutting out things we don't want to do, like extra PT because it's sucking the joy out of life? We're doing that. But they played more tournaments, so they had more points and they never won a tournament. And that would be just like constant discouragement for somebody using that, as is tracking. But, that experience, to me, it's so fun that like the outcome was that they actually went because I know that even if they had got to like fifth and not made it to the Olympics, they could throw this whole thing out like, nope, it didn't work, but it was just indisputable.
00;14;08;24 - 00;14;46;23
Unknown
Is that the right word? Maybe now I'm like, it may be an error. Disputable. Irrefutable? Yeah. I put it here. Yeah, yeah. They, you know, they couldn't argue with it, that it's like this. Truly, there's merit in it. And and it's not just them. It's like, I see this in all of the young people, myself included, like all the clients, that there is a huge misunderstanding whenever anybody asks me like, I need an accountability coach, I need to be more disciplined.
00;14;46;25 - 00;15;25;01
Unknown
I know it's like change doesn't really happen that way. It doesn't happen through more force and more pressure and becoming more diligent. It really happens in like open pastures and like like, natural energy flowing and following inspiration and letting go of all these concepts of what it takes to create what we want. And I do feel like it's like a leap for some people's brains to get to who have been in the conditioning of, like, harder work, more discipline, more punishment creates change or creates what we want.
00;15;25;04 - 00;15;46;05
Unknown
So it is I love this topic because it does feel like something I know I'm, I don't want to say it this way, but it's all I want to almost say. Like, it's like I'm up against that. A lot of like, you, you want me to be this way, but I'm going to be this way because I know in my bones it will serve you more if you can get on board with it.
00;15;46;08 - 00;16;15;00
Unknown
You know I can. That's reminding me. I'm remembering a conversation I had with Mark Howard. And, hello. For those of you that don't know Mark Howard, he is one of the I think what would people would call kind of the original teachers of the teachings of Sidney Banks and the three principals, and he for years taught inside of corporation and worked in addictions and all of that.
00;16;15;03 - 00;16;34;25
Unknown
Anyway, probably ten plus years ago now, I wanted to do just some sessions with him. I really liked him. And so we had met and I had been asked to be a guest on a podcast. So I sent it to Mark and I said, hey, I'd love it if you'd listen to this and then give me some feedback.
00;16;34;25 - 00;16;54;11
Unknown
When we me, I wanted, you know, he's been in this long time. He's going to give me some pointers on my grounding and all that. And I thought, well, I better listen to it. You know, I'd like to refresh my memory. And I was like, on the highway. I was driving on the highway and listening to it literally, I blush.
00;16;54;11 - 00;17;16;15
Unknown
I'm alone in my car, and I had this such cringe that I like my whole body and my face went all red and I was like, oh my God, this is a whirlpool. And I'm thinking I sent to, And then I'm like, well, it's good. I'll just I'll get good information. But I was like cringing on every level.
00;17;16;17 - 00;17;38;18
Unknown
And then I get on the zoom call with him and I said to him, okay, yeah, well, you know, I'm really curious. And any reflections thoughts for me, you know, on the podcast, I didn't tell them like it's my reaction. And he start sharing. And he said, you know. Yeah. He said, oh I just I really loved a couple ways you said things.
00;17;38;18 - 00;18;07;00
Unknown
In fact, I had been in L.A. with Michael doing a workshop, and I wished I'd had the chance to listen to it before I went. And in my head, I'm like, he's just so nice. He's just really, really nice guy. Just, God love him. And then he said a couple other things that were very affirming and nice and, and I don't mean to imply that it wasn't sincere because I could feel the sincerity in it.
00;18;07;00 - 00;18;37;18
Unknown
I didn't feel like he was lying to me right. But when he got down with those things, I said, Oh, yeah. Thank you. Well, do you have any, like, feedback, like any places that you think I could adjust or see something a little bit more deeply or whatever? And you got really quiet and he's like And he's like got his thinking face on you know, and takes a couple minutes and then he goes yeah yeah.
00;18;37;18 - 00;19;13;28
Unknown
And I'm like waiting you know. And then he says, he says accept your grounding. And I was like oh that I mean he saw, he saw that I was on some path of thinking gooder. Faster, deeper, better. You know? And as a result, I was not appreciating. I just wasn't I wasn't taking in, I wasn't appreciated, but it was that comment has come back to me in the last ten years, multiple times.
00;19;13;28 - 00;19;41;21
Unknown
And it'll be at times when I'm trying to do exactly what you said. When I'm I am hard on myself. I'm being I'm only noticing what isn't working, where I need to improve, what's going on. I'm trying to force myself to be different in some way. And then I'll remember his words. So I just, I share that to say I've been the recipient of what you're saying, and it's true.
00;19;41;24 - 00;20;02;25
Unknown
It's true. It's I'm sure if there was something glaring he would have said it right. Like, it's not that you don't get honest with people, but the idea that I was showing up kind of like, yeah, come on, give it to me. I'm ready, you know? And now it's just not the energy of what was going to be most meaningful.
00;20;02;27 - 00;20;30;18
Unknown
Oh, I love that. It reminds me of this expression. What you appreciate. Appreciate. Yeah. Yeah. Lynn twist I think. Oh, yeah. That soul of money. I love you know. Yeah. The, the way that has gone inside of me, it's been so sweet to feel like if I think I want to get better at something or to.
00;20;30;20 - 00;20;53;13
Unknown
I don't know what like classic thing for me is like my house is always still messy. It's too busy. It looks like a preschool slash, animal sanctuary. Like I know what's going on, where I go. Right when I hear that thought come in, that's like, I gotta get it together. I just take a second and, like, let me just appreciate what I do do.
00;20;53;15 - 00;21;19;25
Unknown
What do I do? I always put the food away and I it's like, immediately calming and like, this is a quiet inner practice that I know changes my life because the thought about my house could be there all the time. It would be appropriate to have that thought on a regular basis, and then feel the pangs of shame or pressure around it, which I totally do sometimes.
00;21;19;25 - 00;21;42;23
Unknown
But I just have this thing going on and it's really carried over into every morning. I see my kids and like my first thing with them is just telling them things I appreciate about them. I love that like it is like a game changer for me inside myself and then I know it. It impacts them. This is also what I do with my teen clients and young adults.
00;21;42;23 - 00;22;05;02
Unknown
Will start a session unless they're like bawling right away about something. I want to interrupt that, but, we do it at some point during the session. Like, I'll just start laying on appreciation and then ask them to start doing it for themselves, too. Yeah, it's like it's amazing. And I just I almost feel like saying, I want to give everybody homework.
00;22;05;02 - 00;22;34;19
Unknown
Like if you have children to stop them when stead of I mean, this is like my little superpower. I feel like with parents that have teenagers is is to see what especially that have really hard relationships. Like it's just tense and they feel it. Everybody feels it feel like there's this like magical thing that is so simple because all the teenagers typically want is to know that they're loved and that that, that they're, you know, that their parents are proud of them.
00;22;34;19 - 00;22;55;21
Unknown
And that's usually very true, in the families I work with. But it could be totally missed in the way the communication is coming at the teen where it's usually like, have you done this? And how about this? And I notice you didn't do this. It's just really appropriate. I mean, it there's a time for that. Of course.
00;22;55;24 - 00;23;37;05
Unknown
But, you know, I love doing this little game with parents that's like, just try to do, like, three appreciations for every corrective thing. And it's like, I swear, it's like magic relationships around, like, teenagers that they haven't seen in weeks that are just in their bedroom start coming out into the common area. Yeah. I just this morning was on a call with a client, and she was talking about her and her husband's relationship, and she was saying that she kind of got into this really soft place about him and just loving him and seeing, you know, not trying for make him different, not trying to do all that.
00;23;37;05 - 00;24;03;06
Unknown
And she was saying like how nice it was. And then some. He made some decision that she didn't agree with. And she said she realized how much now she's been living in a agitated, irritated, judgmental space about him. And she said, and of course, it has affected everything. We're not enjoying each other. We we aren't having intimate conversations and connection.
00;24;03;06 - 00;24;32;17
Unknown
And and she was really looking at it from the lens that we're talking about, that that inner climate creates the climate of the exchange. And so if we're withholding, we're agitated, upset, whatever pulled back, you know, like whatever that might be that impacts the climate of the environment. And that's true with our clients. So again, it doesn't mean we don't say difficult things.
00;24;32;17 - 00;24;57;15
Unknown
We don't we're not honest. I could think of many times when I've had to say something that's an honest reflection, and that may have been uncomfortable for them to hear. But when we're doing that from a place of neutrality and ultimate care, it's amazing what people are able to take in where if I have judgment or superiority, condescending.
00;24;57;17 - 00;25;32;01
Unknown
That's it. Wow. We're picking big words today. I'm having a little challenge with them. But anyway that you know, that piece of it is again what people feel. And to really get behind the idea that we know ultimately what creates an environment for people to look deeply and honestly at themselves is a neutral, open, honest, loving. But you don't have to affect love like you don't have to push love.
00;25;32;01 - 00;26;01;19
Unknown
You don't have to like. It's not that. It's just this openness and this in this environment, this inner climate that then we bring that allows people to settle in their skin to hear something different. And I've had people say something along the lines of, you know, I feel like we have these great conversations and things are different. But, I need you to be honest with me.
00;26;01;22 - 00;26;23;00
Unknown
So they assume that I'm not honest with them because I'm not harsh or critical or I don't give them tone. So in those moments, I'll use that and I'll say, well, now I've said this and we've talked about this and they're and they'll hear and they'll be like, oh yeah. And then we'll it sometimes it's been an interesting doorway.
00;26;23;00 - 00;26;49;26
Unknown
Like, do you notice that you aren't recognizing it unless it comes with a harshness or a tone. And then that often leads to an interesting conversation about either how they're doing that with themselves or their employees or their partner or their kids. So again, I think underneath what we're really saying, right, is to create those shifts that last or to have something land.
00;26;49;28 - 00;27;13;04
Unknown
The more calm people are, the more open they are, the less agitated or afraid or stirred up. It's more helpful, helpful to them. So the idea that shame and judgment and tone, not that we're not doing coaching because we think that works, but just pay attention. How are you treating yourself? Like, what's that voice inside of you about you?
00;27;13;04 - 00;27;43;02
Unknown
Yeah, totally. And then noticing like how like, gosh, I guess it's what what I hear also and what you're saying is, like, really caring. Caring about the energy that you're living in, that it's not. It's like I think about the Olympians. And if it were just like, we're going to get to the goal no matter what. And through suffering and through like, you know, like, depression and we don't care what it takes.
00;27;43;04 - 00;28;23;02
Unknown
We don't care about the inner climate. We're just kind of like, I'm guessing they would have, like, broken multiple body parts during that time. So appreciating that there is the potential to, gosh, just like to amplify the, the love or the peace or the already well being like that. There's that. Like my hope with those athletes is that they realize something about how they can do life, which is like taking the stakes off of everything, having goals, having big goals, but knowing the path to achieving those can be like really enjoyable.
00;28;23;04 - 00;28;56;20
Unknown
Yeah. And transformational in any, I get an inside out way. Like I remember once getting into the the principles and just realizing like, oh my gosh, growth and awakening can feel so good. Yeah, we always thought it was like, you have to go through hell in order to heal. Like, oh no, all of healing. All healing really is, is remembering, like remembering the truth and letting go of things that aren't true.
00;28;56;22 - 00;29;18;29
Unknown
And whoa, that can happen in like, such a nice field of energy. And it does happen. And I think it happens with more grace that way too, when people are having fun. Like, I think healing is just natural. It's just occurring. And I think change happens that way, too. If we really want to change things, it's like, how, how, how can I have more fun?
00;29;19;01 - 00;29;47;05
Unknown
I don't know, it's like such a weird thing to like, how can I enjoy this more? How do I myself more? That's the direction. Less pressure. Less. Pushiness. More curiosity. You know, we talked a little bit about this. For those of you that were part of the five day, but people are likely already giving themself enough of a hard time.
00;29;47;07 - 00;30;19;26
Unknown
Yeah. So when they show up and they're apologetic or embarrassed about, you know, I had a woman recently say, I know we've talked about this a lot, and that was her sharing her own inner judgment about it. Right. So for me, and that it was authentic and real, but just to reassure her that there's no timeline. No, I'm not tracking, you know, that we can you know, there's no right way to be doing this and this, this thing that she was talking about really mattered to her.
00;30;19;28 - 00;30;47;16
Unknown
And it it had layers. I could care less how many times she wants to show up and talk about it. There's a quote I had on my, my tagline for my what? My email for years. I can't I can't find it right now, but it's something like a moment of self-compassion changes. Changes your day. Like just a moment and like a string of moments of self-compassion changes your life.
00;30;47;19 - 00;31;29;10
Unknown
Yeah, and changes the world. Yeah. And I feel like, I don't know, that is feels apropos. Yeah, I agree and, you know, just one final note. Like science backs it now in a, in a more internally stirred up, reactive lower mood, our brains constrict and, you know, and they fall into old thinking and old patterns when that happens in a more open, internally spacious, compassionate, loving, neutral, our minds naturally expand and we're naturally accessing resilience and insight and all of that.
00;31;29;10 - 00;31;54;03
Unknown
So, yeah, yeah, just a reminder that the pointing and the holding in that direction is ultimately what helps people come back to remembering who they are. Cool. I think that's that's a wrap. That is a wrap. Thank you everybody. And till next time bye bye. Happy holidays.
00;31;54;06 - 00;32;03;08
Unknown
Thank you for listening and engaging. We're so glad you're here. If you have a question or something you'd love us to explore on a future episode, we'd love to hear from you!
00;32;03;13 - 00;32;26;19
Unknown
Email us at Inside the Practitioner's Path at gmail.com. We also host free experiences and deeper programs throughout the year. You can find what's coming up at Barbara Patterson Income and Iowa coach.com. Let us know what's resonating, what's opening up, and what you're seeing in your own work. Until next time. You.