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The built hapily podcast is about building apps, companies, and relationships in the HubSpot ecosystem. As HubSpot grows, so does the opportunity - and this podcast puts you in the room with the people making it all happen.
Hosted by Dax and Max, built hapily goes behind the scenes with HubSpot developers, solutions partners, startup founders and community leaders. Each episode delivers tactical insights into launching and scaling businesses around the HubSpot platform.
However, this podcast is about more than just building software. It's about building authentic connections, fulfilling careers, and lives you can be proud of. Guests share their personal journeys, hard-won lessons and philosophies for not just achieving success, but finding purpose and happiness along the way.
After all, this is about more than making apps. It's about building hapily - and you're invited along for the ride. Join Dax, Max and their guests to construct the life you've been dreaming of, one conversation at a time.
bhp S3E2 - Pete Nicholls, HubDo
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[00:00:00] Pete: You said it. UI extensions. I think that changed the game because you look at what you could build before then you had the legacy. Cards, and you could make them a little bit interactive, but then you've gotta throw people into an iframe or take them outta the app. And if we had a separate app that integrated with HubSpot, that'd be okay.
[00:00:17] But we didn't wanna do that, we couldn't put a face on our app. That's why DoPricer has no front end. Because it was built prior to UI extensions.
[00:00:24] Dax: On today's episode of the Bill Happily podcast, we've got another native app builder, Pete Nichols from Hub Duke.
[00:00:30] Max: Pete shares his story with us and how he started as a HubSpot solution provider, but quickly turned into a HubSpot app partner building a marketplace in the HubSpot app ecosystem, and how he built a community of other app builders. All that and more on this episode of The Built Happily Podcast.
[00:00:48]
[00:01:04] Dax: pete, there's a special place in all of our hearts for people that are building apps and HubSpot as Max. And I love to not tell anybody about what we're gonna talk about when we bring them on our podcast as Max Creepily.
[00:01:21] Max: I want I wanted to say.
[00:01:23] Dax: Creepily.
[00:01:23] Max: So Pete, we started this podcast to talk to people just like you, right? The problem is there's only a handful of us in the world, and we wouldn't have made it past half a season if that's all we did. So we expanded the scope of the show to talk about people that have built anything in the HubSpot universe, right?
[00:01:46] But originally the idea was. We wanna say, Hey, let's go talk to other people that are building apps on HubSpot. And so it's always great when we get to do an episode where we're actually talking to someone. Who's doing that? [00:02:00] So it's an absolute pleasure to have you here, my friend.
[00:02:02] I've seen you all over all over LinkedIn and all over the HubSpot universe. Besides our glancing blow at Inbound, we haven't ever had a chance to sit down and hang out and just talk shop. So I'm super stoked to have you here. Thanks for joining us.
[00:02:16] Pete: Yeah, great to be here. Great to be part of the app family. I'm one of the granddads in the app family, so can't leave this too many years until we talk. Because I'll just.
[00:02:27] Max: Yeah, exactly. Can, Pete, can you for anyone who doesn't know you, can you just talk about who you are, what you do, where you do it just so we can set that baseline there.
[00:02:36] Pete: Sure. Yeah. Pete Nichols du is my company. I started it in 2015 and. Which a lot of people mispronounce as hub do. They're like, is it Hub Do that's hub do because it's due more on HubSpot. It's the whole purpose of the name. And we've pivoted with that. And today it's primarily about apps.
[00:02:55] Max: Nice. That's awesome. Were you doing well? Did was it always apps or were you [00:03:00] doing like regular HubSpot consulting as well? Tell us about that sort of story.
[00:03:06] Pete: Yeah, we were a classic HubSpot agency in 2015. Small agency talking to businesses. What do you want? How can we help? And back then, HubSpot wasn't a sales CRM, so it was all about marketing. Can you do my website, SEO, pay per click all of that. But we were thinking back then MarTech was the way to go.
[00:03:26] I already knew Scott Brinker and we were following what was happening and thought there'll be at some stage when HubSpot is more of a platform that we'll go more into the tech space directly. But yeah, that the app journey for us is just the last few years.
[00:03:42] Max: So tell us about like that, like the beginning of that sort of like transition from I mean you were probably still consulting while you were building the first app, right? But what was, actually, what was the first app and what was like the catalyst of why you built it and put it on the app [00:04:00] store and like the details of the story behind that.
[00:04:03] Pete: So that's a really good question of whether it's. An app that we've built ourselves or other people's apps that we were selling. 'cause we're getting more and more into that space where we set up a PandaDoc managed service. We're treating it as our own app essentially. The SP but coding our own app.
[00:04:18] It came up because UK agency, we look after a lot of agencies particularly the smaller ones that HubSpot used to have a lot more of. And in the uk one agency, asked, Hey I got a manufacturing customer really struggling with managing their price list in HubSpot. And and yeah, what can you do?
[00:04:36] And so we looked at all the CPQ apps that were around at the time and think would any of these fit And, some of them. Sure. Yeah. But they were just overcomplicating what this company wanted as a manufacturer with wholesale prices and so on. So I thought, we just gotta get into this. It's time to code ourselves.
[00:04:54] We actually did a proof of concept on Zapier and say, if we just talk to the APIs [00:05:00] across the product library and line items in HubSpot, we can automate the pricing. And that turned into the first app. Within a few months, we were coding our first public app called.
[00:05:08] DoPricer
[00:05:10] Max: Due Pricer. Awesome. Tell us about due Pricer, like what does it allow you to do in HubSpot that like it can't do out of the box? What was like the big change you made?
[00:05:20] Pete: Yeah, it does pricing
[00:05:22] Max: That's
[00:05:23] Does pricing where I'm spun out of the box and barely does pricey. It actually does pricing. Yeah.
[00:05:30] Pete: yeah. But in simple preset prices or discounts, and it's mostly manufacturers that have been installing it because they don't sell in one price in a currency. If they're selling in US dollars, they've got a wholesale rate, retail rate, probably a reseller rate, and then special agreements with other customers where that customer always gets 15% off except for these other products.
[00:05:52] So they just have all these, price books gets another term for that. And it's multicurrency. A lot of our customers are either [00:06:00] in the states, but they're trading internationally. We're based in the UK and so it's Euros and so on. So we just plugged that into HubSpot, into the product library.
[00:06:09] We didn't wanna do anything outside of HubSpot. We just built all that into the product library and then automated the line item updates to handle it.
[00:06:17] Dax: That's the way I do it. Native. And that's why big appreciation for people that see it and get it. I know again, 2015 is early to see it and get it. And as the products has HubSpot as a platform is really starting to been more platforming. It's starting to really evolve and allow for these things.
[00:06:34] 'cause I know one of the things I saw that you built, which Maxwell Max is built in his head 5, 6, 7 times. Shout out to Timer man back in the day, but the start and stop timer that you do for as a custom ui. I don't
[00:06:48] Max: Wait, which one is this?
[00:06:50] Dax: see? Yep. Pete. Tell him tell the world. 'cause that's one that we were like, I was like, man, I wanna really wanna build that.
[00:06:56] But I'm like lazy. But I know people really wanna just click a start button [00:07:00] and click a stop button and get time and be able to do that. So tell 'em about that one.
[00:07:04] Max: Wait, I'm not seeing it on the site. I need to see it.
[00:07:08] Dax: Because you can't, there's, you gotta do a different way. But tell Pete.
[00:07:11] Max: All right. I'm gonna listen. I'm gonna listen.
[00:07:12] Pete: I'm impressed that you saw that Dex because we haven't released that. Like we have a whole bunch of apps that we haven't productized into a public app. You guys know, taking an app to market is almost as much, if not more work than writing the app. So the timer came about because it was just after UI extensions in public apps.
[00:07:31] Had come out in September last year, and we've got a customer in Germany who just needs all sorts of bells and whistles added to his HubSpot all the time. And we said actually we can deploy this as a as a private app or a public app. And I challenged Casper, who's my. Key developer partner.
[00:07:48] He is based in Denmark, said, Casper, I bet you could write this in a day. So he did, he said that was our first app in a day. And it's a react based app card that was straight after inbound and they've just built it [00:08:00] into their tickets. So they just use it as a timer on their tickets.
[00:08:05] Max: That's sick.
[00:08:06] Dax: Like you, you need to put that out because people will buy that thing. And that's a lot of, they just wanna click a button. Usually it's like you have to use like a Chrome extension or like a toggle. But if it's integrated in, does it integrate into any properties or like it gets thrown into maybe custom properties on the ticket.
[00:08:20] So you get like a start and stop or durations basically like time on, time off.
[00:08:25] Pete: Yeah, we've ended up feeding it into some custom properties. So it's now morphed as these things do. And I would love to turn it into a public app, but I bet we're gonna touch on some of that today of you can't get a little bit pregnant, like if you put it out as a public app. You put it as a public app, people are gonna install it and they'll keep using it and six, 12 months later, they're still using it and you're like, I have to keep looking after this
[00:08:47] Max: Keep supporting it.
[00:08:48] Pete: we've learned decide when should it be a public app and when do you just make it available on a private link?
[00:08:54] Max: What's the balance you've found there? Do you have a, is there a formula or a rule of [00:09:00] thumb or just I don't know, a vibe you get where you're just like, this is something that should be like out there in the daylight and people using and everything versus something we're not ready to commit to yet.
[00:09:10] Pete: Yeah, first of all, if the app was just our idea, then probably nobody wants it and nobody wants to buy it. Unless customers are saying, I need that and I need it right now, if it's one customer saying, I need it now, but great we'll build it for you in ops hub or we'll turn it into a private app.
[00:09:25] So I'm, I've learned to really resist saying to Casper, we're gonna build another public app. Casper will build it much faster than I can then build a marketplace page for it and the all the requirements of HubSpot, user guide and everything you've
[00:09:41] Max: I need you to te, I need you to teach me how to have a little bit of that what's the word I'm looking for? Restraints
[00:09:47] Pete: self control.
[00:09:48] Max: yeah, self-control. Because I can't tell you how many times, like I've built a feature in my brain where it's okay, onboarded a ton of customers, heard enough people complain about it.
[00:09:59] [00:10:00] I think there's this really awesome way that we could do this thing, or here's this really cool idea that I had that would make it better. And then Ryan or Connor will come to me and be like, okay, but have customers actually asked for this? And I'm like, no, you don't get it. They don't even know to ask for it.
[00:10:14] It's that good of an idea. And I. It's like you gotta convince like these people don't know what's good for them. It's no, like you need to have a need for the feature instead of just like some random idea that you had.
[00:10:25] Dax: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Max: And so that's I lack that self-discipline really bad.
[00:10:33] Dax: People need to put a computer in their house. I don't know why yet, but I believe the future is that computers are gonna be in the house. You don't know it till you know it, right?
[00:10:42] Max: So you're saying, I'm like, Steve Jobs. Okay. I
[00:10:45] Dax: this is well
[00:10:45] Max: everyone else thinks I'm crazy, but I'm just thinking differently. That's what you're saying.
[00:10:50] Dax: Yeah. You're thinking differently. But that's always, there's always features.
[00:10:53] There's never, software's never done. That's just the key. It is never ever done. It's never finished. It's never this is everything [00:11:00] that's possible because there's something else that you can think of, especially like with Max, brain trialing event•hapily, there's always this thing, this tweak, and this.
[00:11:07] It ends up being a whole nother app. But
[00:11:09] Max: Listen. Hold on. event•hapily was your brainchild. I just adopted it from you. Okay. I took custody.
[00:11:16] Dax: my little.
[00:11:17] Max: custody of it afterwards. Yeah.
[00:11:22] Dax: When you believe that you know what they need, it's your, you feel, max, you feel it's your duty. And P I'm sure you have this, you feel it's. To get that out there for people to leverage that. And that's why when I see things like when you told me about the do liner and when you show about due currencies, it's like you had to come out with that stuff because everyone in this hive still thought about it.
[00:11:47] When currencies were finally able to be edited before they would be able, before they were able to be edited via the API. You're like, how can we fix this problem? We know there is right. And that's why we're, we're happy to have you on because you're, you see the [00:12:00] challenges instead of being like, oh, shucks man, that, that's not good.
[00:12:03] You try to make something happen. Know, try. You do
[00:12:06] Pete: Yeah. Clue in the
[00:12:07] Max: You hub, do it
[00:12:08] Pete: So it's made it easy to call out apps our apps 'cause they're all do something. So do price, do currencies, do quotes, whatever. We make it private or public. And you mentioned. See that was a real fun one. That was our second app was due currencies. You've had Justin Charlow on the show.
[00:12:22] I heard him a few episodes back. He has a currency app called Currency Rate and ours is Due currency. And but our app is free. I reached out to Justin when we were bringing out Due currencies free and said, look, we're we're competing in a marketplace, but my app is free. But hey, it shouldn't be just about that app.
[00:12:38] So we're talking about a bunch of other things that we're working on together now as a
[00:12:41] Max: Talk. Yeah. Talk to me about the speed of community, right? Like you've got this like marketplace, right? And my, I get like my brain I guess just doesn't, like I go HubSpot have marketplace that is. Marketplace. But you have this one. Tell us about, the [00:13:00] purpose of this marketplace, what you're doing here.
[00:13:02] How people should maybe think about it differently than just like the HubSpot app marketplace, things like that.
[00:13:07] Pete: Yeah, so the marketplace was another pivot. The whole journey. 2015 has been pivot pivot where the guiding principle has been do more on HubSpot, and that's taken us into coaching dozens of smaller agencies, bringing 'em along with us. It led to establishing a managed service of PandaDoc. So we've got hundreds of companies on PandaDoc and have had for years.
[00:13:28] And most of those are customers of agencies. And so when we were doing the billing for our PandaDoc managed service, it was always a challenge of what's the most effective way to build this Commerce Hub. Wasn't really a thing yet. And so I went looking at what marketplaces are out there?
[00:13:43] Could we get one and plug it in? Because it's not gonna be just about one app if we're billing a customer monthly. For three things. We don't want to build 'em three separate times. How about we just send them one invoice? A marketplace would do that. So I spoke to App Direct. I dunno if you know those guys at all.
[00:13:59] Have you heard of App [00:14:00] Direct?
[00:14:01] Max: No
[00:14:02] Pete: It's amazing. Because they became a unicorn com unicorn Company in 2014. They are like the marketplace kick provider. So com, Comcast. Their marketplace is built out of app direct Telstra, Australia. Their, so they, they deal with some big companies for their marketplaces.
[00:14:24] And they, I think, tried to sell HubSpot marketplace years ago as well, saying You should use our software. Don't build your own. But yeah, HubSpot did their own thing.
[00:14:33] Max: Yeah,
[00:14:34] Dax: I remember that's how we originally met Pete was about looking at marketplace and potentially when I had like bringing some of those things in to that marketplace. But yeah. Tell us about the.
[00:14:47] Pete: Yeah. Marketplace solved a big problem for us because it just streamlined all of the billing of all of the PandaDoc licenses, allocation of seats to users and so on. But I wanted to broaden it beyond POC and I was talking about a bunch of other software [00:15:00] vendors and I.
[00:15:01] Including Connor, Jeff at the time, Connor was talking about building a CPQ back in 2021 and I said, that'd be great if you could do it now, Connor. 'cause I need it right now. And we we talked about we have this whole marketplace billing engine. Maybe you don't need to build a whole billing engine around it.
[00:15:17] You could just. Plug the software into their marketplace and we ended up starting the Hub do podcast around that time as well, where I was interviewing app developers speaking to, like you were saying at the start of this show. I interviewed Dan and Austin org, chart hub, all those guys about you're building in the HubSpot marketplace.
[00:15:37] And the concept behind it was we knew that building a building engine is a ton of work. So if you're building one app. That app's not gonna be free. How are you gonna build it? And then you build a second app. Are you gonna build a whole billing engine separate for that as well? And the smart developers who have multiple apps have then built their own console and billing engine.
[00:15:59] So [00:16:00] that's what App Direct was for us that we launched the Hub Do Marketplace. We had a session on it at Inbound a few years back. But we weren't really ever successful at having other apps saying, Hey, we wanna be on your marketplace, because our marketplace doesn't attract traffic. It's a tool to save app developers actually to build their own billing engine.
[00:16:20] Bet everybody builds their own billing engine anyway.
[00:16:24] Dax: No.
[00:16:25] Max: But that's a huge value add for app developers because they don't wanna build a billion engine. They wanna just build their damn app. So I feel like a lot more people should be knowing about this, especially when they're like, first started like building something and they've got like a really good idea and then it's oh man, can't take it to market.
[00:16:41] 'cause I don't know how to charge people for this thing.
[00:16:43] Dax: Yeah, and it's a little bit when you have to have multiple thing, right? It's about when you have multiple apps, and again, it's,
[00:16:49] Max: Multiple apps. Even one
[00:16:51] Dax: When.
[00:16:51] On day one, we had four apps, just like when we started. We had all the apps all the time because that's all we did. But we already had a building engine, which is funny from [00:17:00] like another project that we just bolted on, but that you is, it's a thing that you have to do and you don't wanna do.
[00:17:05] And on top of that, you also don't want to. There's a lot of other stuff that you probably don't want to do, but let's talk about, speaking of billing and speaking of that, let's talk about how HubSpot and. Being on the platform itself. One of our biggest missions and goals one day is to take over that Shopify model where it's yeah, take some percentage of my app, just throw it right into the same bill.
[00:17:26] What are your thoughts? What are your dreams for how it would be easier for apps like yours to be distributed via HubSpot?
[00:17:35] Pete: Yeah, that's a good one. I think it's a given that HubSpot's going to do it. But my feeling is it'll probably replicate what happened at Salesforce with the app exchange. Where you can put your app on the app exchange and have Salesforce do the billing, but hardly any apps do. There's a minority of apps that allow Salesforce to do the billing, but when the app dev takes a close look at it and says, oh, actually the pricing plans are really restrictive.
[00:17:59] We've gotta do [00:18:00] this other thing with user licenses and allocate licenses and we reseller program. So yeah, we wanna pay commission straight away the benefit of being on the same
[00:18:08] Max: it with that?
[00:18:09] Pete: It people stick to their own billing engine.
[00:18:12] Dax: Good point where you, yeah. If you wanna have special, like tiered price, it's like tiered pricing. You can't do that even out of the HubSpot out the box right now, let alone.
[00:18:21] Max: Like with Salesforce doesn't don't Salesforce reps, and maybe I'm wrong, right? But is it like part of their strategy to sell other apps on top of Salesforce? 'cause that's how they get anything done in Salesforce. Aren't they like somehow incentivized to like, push other apps and things like that?
[00:18:42] Pete: Yeah. But the Salesforce sales guys like their attention is on their quota. So there's, oh, this other annoying thing that I'm supposed to sell other apps as well. They'll do
[00:18:51] Max: not built into their quota. So it's not it's not like Salesforce has gotten like enough people to run [00:19:00] their billing through that marketplace to get enough of a rev share, that they make it part of the quota for the sales reps. The sales reps are still just worried about their Salesforce licenses.
[00:19:12] Pete: Yeah, lot of spiffs and so on along the way to try and get attention off the sales guys. But by far the attention is on that enterprise quota.
[00:19:19] Max: It. See I had thought, I guess I had just assumed it was different because that's the only, that's the other thing is there's that piece of me that's just man wish that it, like someone could just buy an app and have it be part of their HubSpot subscription because that's like what I heard a lot, when I was in sales and being like, oh, I want to get this app, and it's so you just tack it onto my subs like subscription and they're like, no, you gotta go talk to them. And then it like goofs up the sales process, but at the same time it's good thing you go talk to them. Because I know like I barely trust HubSpot sales reps to sell HubSpot. Nevermind our app.
[00:19:52] So I I'm glad that they aren't just like they, oh yeah. We'll throw on, quote happily into a bad fit customer or something, and all of a sudden we gotta deal with that [00:20:00] fire. So it's I don't know what the balance is there, right? But I also want the sales reps to be incentivized to push apps because one, sure.
[00:20:08] Great for us. Two, if you take the time to learn what these apps do. You can close more deals, leveraging them tactically. But I don't think they, they have no incentive to do that. That's the problem. Which well, technically they do. If they wanna sell more HubSpot, you have an incentive just naturally to go learn what these apps do and become educated about them.
[00:20:29] But they don't see that, they barely wanna learn what HubSpot does. They just wanna send AI emails and, like just, use pricing and
[00:20:37] shit
[00:20:37] like that. I don't know. It's. I'm bitter about sales is all I'm gonna say.
[00:20:41] Dax: Pete, it's funny. Pete, when you look forward in where you're at right now with building, you have a hybrid kind of, we have multi hybrid, right? You're build, you have some public apps, you've got productized service and the true sense of productized service. You literally have [00:21:00] products that you would sell, be it vis-a-vis the marketplace vis-a-vis.
[00:21:04] Client need and then you have your services and consulting that you're doing. What are you looking to, are you looking to steer in one more than one lane? Are you looking to stay eggs in multiple baskets? Where's the focus gonna be in the future?
[00:21:16] Pete: It's about having a core set of public apps. So if there isn't a good solution already out there and we think we can bring a lot of value, then. Continue to develop public access apps. And it's only HubSpot. The focus is a hundred percent. We never take the users outta HubSpot.
[00:21:31] And most of the apps that we're that we sell are through resellers, they're through agency partners, HubSpot Agency Partners. So it's about trying to take the friction out of that and support that community and then help other developers come along and do that as well. The, our North Star is do more on HubSpot.
[00:21:49] So I think apps are increasingly a good way to solve that. And our marketplace takes the friction out. What we try to do is just have an abstraction layer. Between the apps that we build and [00:22:00] how they're distributed. So if HubSpot does offer a distribution method, then sure, we'll engineer in to be able to sell through that.
[00:22:07] But we know it won't be the only way that people are buying the app. 'cause we have the reseller model. So we'll have a few key apps that do price will evolve. It doesn't have a front end at the moment. Purely just response to line items that are created in the platform prices. So we'll enhance that alongside the other great CPQ offerings of quote happily and PandaDoc, CPQ and Glean quote, and, all of the others that have a role to play and whatever HubSpot comes out within that space.
[00:22:34] But we've got a new app that's coming out. It's available in be at the moment, but it takes us into another part that is new to me a year ago customer of ours in Canada. Said Pete, I need an anti-money laundering. Know your customer app and I want it integrated in HubSpot. And I said, okay, what's that all about?
[00:22:53] So
[00:22:55] Max: Anti laundering.
[00:22:56] Pete: anti-money laundering? Yeah. A-M-L-K-Y-C. [00:23:00] There is one up on the HubSpot marketplace already, but it's an integration so it takes people out of HubSpot, we've built a full built in.
[00:23:11] Max: Yeah, dude, I love it. That's the thing. I am I'm very much an app supremacy elitist where there are apps and then there are integrations. They're not the same thing, right? Anyways, sweet. Love to see where we're on the same
[00:23:23] Pete: the
[00:23:24] Max: with that one.
[00:23:24] Pete: then, it's an integration.
[00:23:26] Max: If you have to leave HubSpot, it's not an app, bro.
[00:23:29] It's an app that's not HubSpot.
[00:23:31] Pete: Yeah. So
[00:23:32] Max: So wait, yeah, so tell us more about this. Yeah.
[00:23:35] Pete: So due sanctions is it's all built in UI extensions which is fun. So it's it sits on the contact record or on the company record. So like this customer in in Canada that got this started, we now got hundreds of customers that are in the sphere of this thing.
[00:23:50] They're in businesses where they need to know if a lead turns into a conversation and they might be buy the product, that whatever that company does that they need to [00:24:00] know. Is this company on some sanctions list? Is it on an FBI list? Are they politically exposed persons? So that sits on the record.
[00:24:07] You just hit a quick search and boom, you can see, oh, this person shows up in all these FBI records. And you can blacklist right there, or you can white list or you can park it to review. And it's it all just sits inside the the ui.
[00:24:21] Max: Do you have a workflow action that can run the check and then they'll flip a property or is it all UI extension?
[00:24:27] Pete: Of course, we are not silly.
[00:24:29] Max: Oh yeah.
[00:24:29] I don't even know why I asked that
[00:24:32] Pete: Yeah. A deal gets to a certain stage. In fact, it's a good one when when it goes close one then you generally have a workflow action where you are now monitoring that company and that person daily to see if they suddenly show up on a, on an FBI list. Yeah.
[00:24:46] Max: Yeah. Get Operations Hub to pro operations Hub Pro to do that. You can't, that's awesome. I. Sweet. It's interesting, I've heard a couple other people getting into the security space too. I think our friend Justin over at Image in A Box is [00:25:00] also doing some kind of a security thing.
[00:25:03] I can't remember exactly what it is, so I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say it 'cause I can't even remember if he told me not to say anything about it. But a lot of people are getting into that space. Which is really neat. What do you like, so you've been watching this space obviously for a while.
[00:25:19] What is the, like the biggest sort of like fundamental change for app developers that's happened recently that you think is like the most consequential? Is it easy as saying extensions or is it like something else? What was the biggest thing you were excited about over like the past, like year or so?
[00:25:39] Pete: You said it. UI extensions. I think that changed the game because you look at what you could build before then you had the legacy. Cards, and you could make them a little bit interactive, but then you've gotta throw people into an iframe or take them outta the app. And if we had a separate app that integrated with HubSpot, that'd be okay.
[00:25:56] But we didn't wanna do that, we said, so we [00:26:00] couldn't really have we couldn't put a face on our app. That's why DoPricer has no front end. Because it was built prior to UI extensions. Now we can put a front end on it. We've done private versions of it where people are doing cool things like, custom line item creation and it's really specific to that company. So UI extensions. I partied in September when we saw that was announced because suddenly we could put a face on our apps. They didn't have to just sit in the backend like DoCurrencies and DoPricer
[00:26:30] Max: Have you guys like. Hit, I'm sure you've hit some of the limits of, UI extensions. Is there any, thing in particular that, like you're really just saying oh, once UI extensions could do this, there's gonna be all this other stuff that I can do. Is there any sort of like stuff you're still waiting for for UI extensions, like to be able to do, it's like a blocker right now.
[00:26:50] Pete: Yeah. There's some things that we've voiced to HubSpot. We really need the ability to keep the user fully in the HubSpot portal so that we don't have to take them off to some [00:27:00] completely separate endpoint. The setting screen, that we're we've got high expectations of the future there because, that then becomes the home
[00:27:07] Dax: a.
[00:27:07] Pete: app.
[00:27:09] Max: And what's what's missing around the settings stuff? Is it just not accessible from the record, or is it like certain UI mel elements suck, or what
[00:27:18] Pete: so limited the current one, it gives you the ability to add a button, add a toggle, add a dropdown. So if you just wanna do something really simple to the user. Enter your API key to connect your other app to this app. You then have to develop your own secure endpoint. Stick it inside an iframe.
[00:27:35] It's just, it's not native at all. But and there's a workaround. We can do it on a UI card, but yeah, UI extensions and then improvements to the setting strain that changes the game.
[00:27:45] Max: So it's like the data it you can do, you said the button, the drop down the toggle, but you can't do like free text entry or anything to do like a credentials for another thing you're connecting to or something
[00:27:56] Dax: There's no cool sliders. There's no all the components, like why we can't [00:28:00] have, even us, we can't have a cool setting screen. Guess what we had to do, Pete? Build your own setting screen and all the different production, like all the different thingss, and be able to that being able to have that and easy to get easy to access that from within a record.
[00:28:13] Just quick settings. Like we have to link out, remember the OG contact Max, there's like a setting button have popped open right window, which was an iframe to the happily backend, like weird. It's special workaround, but it's, again, it makes me, it reminds me of, Nintendo and. Games are, 56 kilobytes.
[00:28:32] How do you have a full soundtrack, a game with 50 levels on something that no one in their mind right now could even think of the size, right? That that those restrictions are the creativity. That's what you have to figure out your work around, and that's the fun part of it, right? You're not just given to everything.
[00:28:47] Silver spoon, silver platter. Around. But one of the things too, Pete, that I think is cool, and I discovered currencies this way, is that. In the workflow actions, like the [00:29:00] suggestions, like that's, that was a whole thing where I were starting to leak and see a little bit of it, but now it's full on. If you don't have do liner due price or do, if you don't have do anything right or anything from happily, you could see all those things while you're in the motion of building.
[00:29:16] I think that's a pretty cool discovery feature that they've added. Because I've seen a few people's, like apps I never heard of. All in there, all the workflow actions, ones that support workflow actions, at least as doing that.
[00:29:26] Pete: Yeah, that in-app discovery is huge.
[00:29:29] Max: I gotta know Pete, do you have do you have an app that you don't wanna build, but you know that HubSpot needs? If you could snap your fingers and it exists, but you don't want have, you don't want anything to do with it. Is there, like what's an app that HubSpot needs that it doesn't have anymore?
[00:29:49] Or it doesn't have it all?
[00:29:51] Pete: Well, HubSpot was all about SMB when it started. And now 'cause it's shooting from the enterprise stars and it's a given that's going that way. [00:30:00] And, but a consequence of that is that you can find there's now this increasing audience of it's too big for me now. I can't bring the whole HubSpot machine in, but there's, there's so many businesses out there that just have a handful of of staff, electrical contractors, these folks where there are other apps like Service Mate or Tradify and so on where. People are relying on that to, to run their electrical engineering business, whatever that might be.
[00:30:27] But that the app they're using is not a CRM. It's just so lacking in what HubSpot would do. But if they had HubSpot, then they'd have to have HubSpot and this other thing. So the thing that I'm tempted to to dive in and do, but particularly. Now that a small business can just buy three sales seats they don't have to sign up.
[00:30:49] And, and donate an arm and a leg. That's what I'd like to see is something that out of the box is really great for tradespeople and so on. And so that's something I'd love to build. If somebody [00:31:00] else wants to build it, I'd I'd throw it into our portfolio a hundred percent.
[00:31:05] Max: Yeah. Yeah. The, I think it's like, for me it's the scheduling one Dax that we've like always talked about. It's and it just, I think the same way, like Pete is it's I would love to, I think like selfishly, I would love to build something that makes the free version of HubSpot like actually useful for someone.
[00:31:24] You know what I mean? Especially the, when you, like we we've had this like idea that we've tossed around called Book Happily for a Wicked long time, right? Where it's just like the scheduler on HubSpot. And like for me it was just like when you look at something like. A salon or like a small gym or like a, any of these small mom and pop stores that run on the idea of like appointments not booking a meeting like the meetings tool does.
[00:31:50] Those are the people that don't buy HubSpot because it doesn't do that. But like for example, if you were a barber, right? [00:32:00] And you had a list of people who came in to get their haircut last month. That those free 2000 emails that you could send with HubSpot free all to be all of a sudden become so much more useful.
[00:32:14] And that is like the thing I feel like that HubSpot's missing with so much of that SMB, but it's do they care about them anymore? Which is the tough part. But it's yo, every business starts small. And it's like you might have the next. Floyd's barbershop chain, that starts because they were able to be on HubSpot when it was just one location or, something like that.
[00:32:34] And it's just like, I do love that idea of building apps for the people. That, that just need that one more thing to make HubSpot make sense for them and to give them a reason to use all these other tools that they're not thinking of. 'cause it doesn't do the one thing that's like quarter their business.
[00:32:50] Which is why I've always had like a special place in my heart for like scheduling and stuff like that. But yeah. No, I like that.
[00:32:57] Pete: And the
[00:32:57] mobile side, As well. That's where suddenly you [00:33:00] just hit a wall. You say, we've got these UI extensions, we can do fantastic things. Just look at your pc. And then it's yeah, can I use it on my phone? No.
[00:33:08] Max: Yeah,
[00:33:09] I, that's what I think. I'm so surprised that no one's made just the better HubSpot client for
[00:33:14] Dax: official HubSpot app, because it would be it would be a crazy endeavor. But
[00:33:18] Max: it would be. Yeah.
[00:33:20] Dax: a crazy endeavor. But people will use it like I, as much as we. Use HubSpot all the time. We know it front to back. I've hardly ever had to use my phone and would I, if I could maybe, like if it was easy to respond to a comment on a deal or something like that, it's not easy to do that,
[00:33:42] Max: say that to like the mobile the door to door salesperson or like the field service guy, right? Yeah. I think there's room for someone to do that, right? It's just like the better HubSpot app or something like
[00:33:55] Pete: Yeah. I think that's where the integrations really stand out. Live on.
[00:33:59] Max: [00:34:00] Yeah, you're right about that piece. Like it, it's, can I go out and use and I think we've seen it like, I don't know if you've used zipper with any of your customers before.
[00:34:07] But like from what I know, they've got a great integration with HubSpot, but they also have those like mobile apps that like field text needs that are on service calls that can easily like take pictures and send data back into it. And if you build. With the integrations there's like multiple levels of integrations too, right?
[00:34:24] There's thoughtful integrations that were built for HubSpot and like you had someone building it that understands how BBB is HubSpot, and then there's like data sync. Here's properties on objects have fun. You know what I mean? And yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:42] Dax: It on the contact.
[00:34:43] Well, that's hilarious. Pete, we know where you're going. We, I wanna take a step back before we, we end this. And you're in the HubSpot ecosystem. You've, you know how to thi I feel, how to think about the HubSpot ecosystem and how to work with HubSpot building apps and everything like that.
[00:34:58] Where did HubSpot [00:35:00] enter into your world in 2015? Was it. Hey, I got a guy. Client needs something. First time. Where did you step into the place to take this? All the.
[00:35:09] Pete: Yeah. So 2015 we've figured we, we just really need to put a stake in the ground. Make a platform decision and so HubSpot at the time, I think I was comparing it to active campaign and a few others that back then were a similar kind of thing. And I just thought, actually, you look at where this company's going, this completeness of vision, ability to execute thought.
[00:35:32] Let's put a stake in the ground and say HubSpot. So then we had our own HubSpot portal, which did not get as much love as everybody customer's portal, of course. But we'd made the decision and having it come into our lives that actually it changed things because of the agency. I. Community we really were looking after.
[00:35:48] 'cause back then HubSpot had the silver tier. And I was spending a lot of time with Dan Tire, Dave Winehouse back then. And we ended up running a program. I had 60 agencies [00:36:00] gather I called it Silver Peak, and it was all about. Get these agencies to silver in the first six months. And so that kind of fostered a community.
[00:36:08] And now still a lot of what we do today is still with those agencies that had to make a decision that they, whether they stay with HubSpot. 'cause it's hard for a small agency now to to do that and stay gold. But now the HubSpot, the integration's, the software piece for your question, Dax, so you're aware.
[00:36:25] As it came into our lives, HubSpot has meant different things because we've just continued to want to help people do more on it. But now as we do the apps, those smaller agencies are, they're not app devs, they, we've had to educate them of what ops hub even is. And it's a Swiss Army knife.
[00:36:42] You may not need an app. Let's just throw some code into ops hub. So I enjoy the flexibility that HubSpot's given us. And as long as we keep hanging onto the tiger, its tail that's,
[00:36:53] Max: like any big things you learned in terms of the right way to work with partners? Like I, we've been trying to do this, [00:37:00] I remember since I got here, like my first job was like trying to find customers that had like overlapping HubSpot and Stripe customers and trying to get 'em to, you do Abra right?
[00:37:10] And it was just like slamming my brick headache, like head against a brick wall all the time trying to figure it out. 'cause there were so many things that like. Had to line up for a little bit of sunshine to come through and find a good fit. And I feel like we've been experimenting Dax like ever since.
[00:37:23] What does it look like to work with HubSpot Partners when you're a HubSpot app partner? And then finding that like perfect way to work together. Sounds like you've been doing that for a while. Is there any advice that you would give to other HubSpot. App partners when it comes to working with solutions partners and figuring out how to build like good partnerships with them.
[00:37:46] Pete: Yeah, that's a good question. This kind of goes back to a past life. Pre 2015
[00:37:50] Max: We love a good origin story, Pete.
[00:37:52] Pete: Of Cisco technology outfit.
[00:37:55] Max: yeah,
[00:37:55] Pete: Yeah.
[00:37:56] Max: Baby.
[00:37:57] Pete: I enjoyed, I had my
[00:37:58] Dax: that's.[00:38:00]
[00:38:01] Pete: I have, and it's not Cisco, a food company. I think the US has this food company with Cisco on the side of the.
[00:38:07] Max: You're talking about the wifi routers. All right, I got you.
[00:38:09] Pete: I was a driver with with them. Yeah. That, that's what brought me to the uk Actually. I was from Australia and Cisco moved me. I was with Cisco for 16 years. And and that was my corporate experience. But Cisco was a huge learning because they sold almost nothing directly to end users unless you were a Ford Motor company at. For some years I was a technical director for UK and Ireland for Cisco, and we had over 2000 resellers just here. So the number of resellers was astronomical. SaaS companies typically doesn't look anything like that. And I learned a lot from that, which is that generally there's a, there's the pointy end of where you've got those partners that really care about what you sell.
[00:38:52] It's part of their business and they wanna strategically involve you in that. But that's, you're lucky if that's gonna be 20% of of the ones you're talking [00:39:00] to. The rest could care less on any given day about your app until the day that their customer needs your app. And then they just.
[00:39:07] Want the slickest quickest way. So I think you've just gotta segment into strategic partners. And then more kind of tactical let's stay connected type of partners, not expect too much of each other, but be there when ready. And then for everybody, everyone else, just take all the friction out of it, make it self-serve where they don't have to think about it.
[00:39:26] Max: Yeah. And I think also there's, yeah I mean I really respect that, like being realistic in knowing that there's a lot of partners, the majority of partners don't revolve around your product. They're trying to run their own business. They have their own problems to care about and like constantly trying to like.
[00:39:45] Turn someone in to these like top tier strategic partners that proactively care about what it is that you're doing is a fruitless effort. And it's okay because they're trying to do their own thing. They're not here to sell your app. Or to be your [00:40:00] biggest warrior. And it makes more sense to focus on the 10 or 20% that actually want to Right.
[00:40:05] And managing that relationship versus trying to force it down everyone's throat. Which. I feel like Dax, over the years we've had to figure, try to figure out how to strike that balance.
[00:40:14] Dax: Right? You just don't wanna be, you're not here for you. I'm just coming into your restaurant, selling, beverages and stuff. You're like, oh, we got beverages too. I'm trying to I like you, but, that's the
[00:40:24] Max: And then you go, you gotta remember too, like these, these these solutions partners get bombarded on a daily basis from other SaaS vendors looking to get 'em into a high volume, highly commercialized referral program, right? Where someone's just gonna get on their
[00:40:38] ass
[00:40:38] about how many leads did you send me this month?
[00:40:40] Versus like, how can we actually help you close more services?
[00:40:43] Dax: It.
[00:40:43] Max: think yeah, like what's interesting about being like a HubSpot app company is like. Our interests are hella aligned. In that I like, we won't sell our app unless you sell your services and HubSpot.
[00:40:54] Versus we're an app that's agnostic on whether or not you get HubSpot or go with your [00:41:00] services. Which, like some of the other
[00:41:01] Pete: and then There's marriage. Like you're married to HubSpot had one of one of my best earliest customers out in Australia was chugging along absolutely fine, and then just suddenly they canceled. I. I was like, Hey, what happened? They're like, oh, no we love you guys, but we've gone off HubSpot.
[00:41:16] We've gone to a different platform. I'm like, okay. Game over. Thanks.
[00:41:20] Max: Yeah. Gigi.
[00:41:22] Pete: Yeah. That's
[00:41:23] Max: But that's even what I try to say with I think it's similar in the way that you approach like direct relationships with HubSpot reps, right? Like when I get sales folks that are like, why should we work with you over like deal hub? I'm like. Doesn't give a fuck. You sell HubSpot or not Like they work on anything.
[00:41:38] I need you to win. For me to win. So I am, I am fully behind helping you sell HubSpot, come hell or high water. And I think people need to lean into that where it's like you, you don't be able to talk about it like how your interests like completely align.
[00:41:52] Like we, we tell partners 'cause it's true. We don't wanna do onboarding. Sure we got some onboarding guys, but we don't wanna do it. We would rather have [00:42:00] a partner do that and make money doing it. 'cause we just wanna build the damn apps. Yeah.
[00:42:06] Pete: some partners don't want their pressure. They're like no, please, your app come in and solve it. For particularly the
[00:42:11] Max: That's the thing. Yeah.
[00:42:12] Pete: they just don't have the bandwidth to learn your app.
[00:42:14] Max: Yeah. And that's the thing that like we've been. Successful with some people and not so much with others. Like when they're like, wait, what do you mean I gotta onboard it? And we're like, what do you mean don't you wanna make money onboarding? And they're like, no.
[00:42:25] And they're like, okay, weird. Okay. What? We're trying to give you money, like what's going on? Again, they've got their own work that they like doing and they, and some folks have the luxury of saying, I don't wanna do that kind of work. I just wanna maybe get like a little bit of comish for the referral, and that's fine.
[00:42:42] Pete: Yeah, you gotta stratify it. And I think this it's a tough job in these SaaS businesses where they have a direct sales team and a channel team and the the channel, the resellers team, that head count just keeps churning all the time. The people on the move, they tend to stick in those jobs.
[00:42:54] 'cause it's just really hard trying to. Hey, remember me. Get the attention. But but I think you were [00:43:00] mentioning something that's really close to my heart, which is about how you articulate to HubSpot. You've got an integration piece of software and then there's happily or our DO apps where they don't work unless you have HubSpot.
[00:43:13] You're where we're married to how to, how do you name? Are apps different to integrations? I've been calling ours our plugins to some degree and I tested some language around being native apps and then I found people didn't understand what I was talking about when I said native.
[00:43:35] Max: Yeah, dude. Actually I like plugin, honestly because like plugin to me, it, for some reason when I hear the word plugin, I go, oh, it's a thing that makes it do more. You can still get mistaken when you say app because it's oh, it's some separate app that integrates with HubSpot and dude, the way I have to explain it, like sometimes when I'm doing like a lunch and learn with sales reps and I'll be like, yes, this is a third party [00:44:00] app.
[00:44:00] But it's, it's not it like everything is happening in hubs, quote, happily, literally just replaces the. Process of building a quote and then it still builds a quote. It's doing everything a native feature would do, but yeah, like we are a third part. It like it's such a weird line to try to
[00:44:19] Dax: IU
[00:44:19] Max: people.
[00:44:20] Dax: Insinuate.
[00:44:21] Pete: Yeah, I stole plugin from the WordPress world. I say, oh, you have WordPress. You need a ton of plugins. Yeah.
[00:44:27] Max: it's smart. People know people can relate to that. And people know what that is. Even Shopify, they're called plugins too, right? Or no? Are they apps? They do
[00:44:35] Dax: are apps and Shopify, but it's that people get it, that it is, some are standalone, but it's inside of Shopify. Like everything you do and operate is inside of Shopify for the most part. And then some are it's this, it's of more of closer to HubSpot, but WordPress is straight. Everything is inside, like because it's WordPress open source, it's PHP.
[00:44:55] You can put your whole app right inside there and go nowhere. So it truly is [00:45:00] plug in. They just use the nomen plug.
[00:45:02] Max: Pete, I gotta get your perspective on just 'cause I'm sure you've been asked this question a thousand times. 'cause we have to is like the one thing that like I always hear from partners is and HubSpot sales reps to be fair, is they go, I just bought HubSpot and it was supposed to do everything.
[00:45:20] What do you mean I have to buy something else to get it to do something? Do, is there like a way that you like to train people on how to like combat that either mindset or objection, that's worked really well for you?
[00:45:36] Pete: That's a great question. I think it depends a lot on how their sales experience went in their HubSpot purchasing decision.
[00:45:42] Because in situations where I've had a HubSpot's rep reach out and say my customer wants HubSpot, but they can't buy it unless they have your app. So you have an early discussion and then it's great.
[00:45:55] It's super easy. The hard part is where I have some [00:46:00] agency. Comes and says my customer's in a bit of pain. They've been oversold by a rep. They expected HubSpot was gonna do everything, and and now we're trying to teach 'em that you. I think it's helpful to then look at maybe some other comparisons of where you buy a thing, but on its own, it it, it doesn't do everything.
[00:46:19] I'm a bit of an analogy guy, so I hope that something will appear out of the the ether that it explains. Just imagine in this scenario, you buy a
[00:46:27] Max: Do you use the iPhone as an analogy at all?
[00:46:30] Can I tell you mine? So this is what I do, and then you I want to hear if this, if you think this holds water or not, right? Because you've seen this a thousand times, what I tell people is I haven't done the spiel in a while, so I'm probably gonna butcher it, but I say if you think of the iPhone, right?
[00:46:43] The iPhone is not an iPhone. Your iPhone is a platform. That comes with a bunch of apps that are universally helpful for people, right? If you think about your business, your CRM is your business's iPhone, right? It has all the [00:47:00] basic stuff in it that you need to communicate with people, right? But just like you might download a a better calendar app and pay for that on your phone, even though it already has a calendar app.
[00:47:11] Fine. Some people might need a calendar app that's gonna do more for them, or a more specific type of calendar app, right? The same thing goes for your CRM, right? You might need your CRM to do something a little bit different than someone else. Now, if HubSpot were to be like wait, let's just build in every single feature for every single industry, for every single use case under the sun, right?
[00:47:31] That wouldn't work out. Why? Imagine if Apple preloaded. Every single iPhone with every single app ever made for everybody. How much do you think this thing would cost? It would be unaffordable, unsustainable, unsupportable, and unscalable. The same thing goes for a CRM, right? It's a platform that you're purchasing just like your iPhone, right?
[00:47:53] So you get it, it helps you build the solid foundation. And then if you gotta go get that [00:48:00] hyper-specific anti-money laundering, know your customer app that like Jimmy, the ski shop doesn't need. Jimmy, the ski shop didn't have to pay extra for HubSpot because they had to build it natively.
[00:48:12] And you got to also pay less for the platform because this app exists outside of HubSpot and you were able to get for your specific thing, right? And so like I try to get people to say, this is your CRM is your business's iPhone and you download apps for your iPhone to make it do more stuff that it didn't do out of the box.
[00:48:29] And you're totally okay doing that, but it's your personal device, right? How about your business? And that's what I try to do.
[00:48:36] Pete: I think that's a great
[00:48:36] Max: Cool. So I'm not crazy. All right. It's validation that I needed.
[00:48:43] Pete: I've tried nowhere near as, as well as you articulated it back. I'm gonna use that next time. The challenge I have is then also articulating how different it is that our apps are native and others are not. So in the iPhone world, I'm not sure how you'd compare, how does a quote happily or do [00:49:00] app?
[00:49:01] How is that more native on the phone than something else that you might take to the back of the phone and then plug in a separate cable so it talks to your phone, but it's not in your phone?
[00:49:13] Max: Yeah, no, that is I'd say I imagine an app that works with the Native Calendar app, works with your contacts, works with your notifications really well, things like that, versus you go into the app and it iframes a website somewhere and it's not talking to any of your phone's services in any meaningful way.
[00:49:31] Dax: To your computer versus like an actual notification.
[00:49:34] Max: Yeah. Yeah, that, like that to me would be like the thing there. It's just, but it's just like a, again, the, the native things is like when an app is built for HubSpot and that's the entire in intention to, to work the best possible way with HubSpot. And that's the focus of why that thing was built.
[00:49:55] That's going to me, is gonna get the native moniker. Versus, oh, we [00:50:00] built this integration to check a box, to say, Hey, we integrate with HubSpot. And like all that means is oh, you're on Zapier, right? Like you don't have a HubSpot integration, you have a Zapier integration. That to me is like the difference.
[00:50:13] But again the other kind of thing that I would say there is that it's HubSpot native when it doesn't work unless you have HubSpot and you can't use it outside of HubSpot. That to me is like the biggest. It's
[00:50:24] Dax: and that's where we come in. Like with poc, Hey, you can use PandaDoc and something else. You can use MailChimp with something else. It's its own thing. But there are integrations. You can use Air Call with something else. You can just use Air Call by itself. And that's the biggest one. Man this has been ridiculous.
[00:50:41] Ridiculous
[00:50:42] Max: iPhone thing is something I never thought about with that native argument. That's really interesting.
[00:50:46] Dax: Yeah. He's got it. Pete, we gotta sign this baby off. We always ask three quick questions. Yeah. Before we, we leave.
[00:50:54] Max: We could do this one. We could do this episode literally for two
[00:50:56] Dax: do,
[00:50:57] Max: I feel like. Yeah.
[00:50:58] Dax: I'm gonna ask you three, three [00:51:00] funny ones, man. First one is, what's your favorite movie, Pete?
[00:51:04] Pete: Aliens. Aliens two.
[00:51:08] Max: Specifically.
[00:51:10] Pete: Yeah,
[00:51:10] Dax: Not
[00:51:10] Pete: I, I've watched that, I don't know how many times it's just nuts. And then and fortunately it's my wife's favorite movie as well, so it's like Saturday is a Do you wannas? Yeah.
[00:51:19] Dax: Just watch
[00:51:21] Max: What do we do? Wanna watch aliens again? Yeah.
[00:51:23] Dax: Yeah.
[00:51:24] Max: That's awesome.
[00:51:26] Dax: Where's the favorite most? Where's the most favorite place you've traveled?
[00:51:30] Pete: Favorite place? Right now it's really gotta be Denmark. 'cause I have two grandchildren now. And they live in Denmark, so I've been there for the last few years. But in a week's time they will descend on us here. And I've I have my, my, my robot has been inundated now with grandchildren, things I go to Denmark, they come to Denmark to, to here, to Morfa is my name in Danish.
[00:51:49] You have more, more so yeah, Denmark for.
[00:51:53] Max: My grandfather on my mother's side, we called Marfa. But I don't know if it was a weird Americanized version of what it's [00:52:00] actually
[00:52:00] Pete: it sounds like it's a bit, yeah. You have far more,
[00:52:02] Max: Yeah. As Marfa,
[00:52:04] Pete: far. Yeah.
[00:52:05] Max: it's probably what name. Of it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:09] Dax: So last question is. Favorite chocolate. Sweet.
[00:52:15] Max: Ooh.
[00:52:16] Pete: You guys know Cadbury, yeah. So Cadbury Fruit and Nut Bar.
[00:52:22] Dax: Oh yes.
[00:52:24] Pete: love the combination and it also because it has a force field as well, is that my wife doesn't like chocolate with nuts in it. So it's got its own little safety net. It has in it.
[00:52:36] Max: Yeah. Know your customer.
[00:52:37] Dax: Europe they had the Fruit nut bar. The Cadbury Fruit Nut Bar is actually like
[00:52:41] Max: only know the eggs.
[00:52:43] Dax: It's just like a regular,
[00:52:45] Max: field eggs.
[00:52:46] Dax: I remember when I was
[00:52:46] Pete: eat a hundred of those.
[00:52:49] Dax: in Paris.
[00:52:50] Max: listen, Pete, I will
[00:52:53] throw out a hundred Cadbury eggs in front of you in it. Bounce. This is, we just made [00:53:00] another content piece,
[00:53:01] Pete: I'll see you
[00:53:02] Max: Pete watches eat a hundred Cadbury eggs in front of everyone in inbound. Oh man. Dude, this inbound's gonna suck. I'm gonna have to get a tattoo.
[00:53:11] Dax: yeah.
[00:53:12] Max: Eat in front of Pete.
[00:53:14] This is gonna be bad.
[00:53:17] Dax: Are.
[00:53:18] Pete: I can't make it to inbound this year, unfortunately. I'm gonna be remote. I'm gonna be sitting here in Blighty, as they call it, the uk with grandchildren and all. But I'll be there in
[00:53:27] Max: that's better.
[00:53:28] Dax: You'll be there in spirit. We'll sign you off,
[00:53:30] Max: Send us some hub do stickers that we can put on the that we can put on the booth.
[00:53:34] Dax: yeah, we can throw some stuff together because we wanna support people like you and all the app builders, man. So thanks again for coming and talking to us about the game. We appreciate you more than
[00:53:42] Pete: lovely. And a shout out to Dax and Tyrone because back when I was messing about with Zapier, thinking, oh, we could probably write this up ourselves. I was tuning into the sessions of Dax and Tyrone we're running, Hey, you could build apps like, wow, Dax and Tyrone. They make it so easy. How hard can that be?
[00:53:57] Let's build some maps.
[00:53:59] Max: that is so [00:54:00] freaking awesome. Oh my God. That's great. Awesome, Pete. Have a wonderful rest of your week, brother.
[00:54:07] Pete: Been fun.
[00:54:08]