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Reimagining Black Health is a podcast dedicated to advancing Black health equity by exploring critical health topics through the lens of the Eight Dimensions of Well-Being—emotional, physical, occupational, social, spiritual, intellectual, environmental, and financial.
Brought to you by The Council on Black Health, the show highlights experts, advocates, and community members who are reimagining what it means to thrive and live safe, healthy, and happy lives. Through insightful conversations, we amplify the voices of those driving meaningful change in Black health and wellness.
Join us in achieving equity for generations. Donate to help the Council on Black Health drive lasting impact!
https://councilbh.app.neoncrm.com/forms/donate
Jahkazia Richardson,: For me, being
connected to my culture and to community
helps me to find or feel a sense of
belonging and a sense of connection
with others, connection with self.
I feel like I can be myself.
I feel like I can be creative
in my community because
I know I'll be supported.
I know I'll be poured into
in ways in other communities.
I don't feel.
There's just a, a lightness that I
feel when I'm with, with my folks.
Alright.
Welcome to Reimagining Black Health, a
podcast from the Council on Black Health,
where we explore what it means to thrive
in our communities through the lens
of the eight dimensions of wellbeing.
I'm your host, Dr.
Melicia Witt-Glover, chief Executive
Officer of the Council on Black Health.
Today's episode is all about emotional
wellbeing, so how we understand
how we process and how we care for
our mental and emotional health.
With so much happening in the world
around us, especially in black
communities, this is a conversation
that feels more urgent now than ever.
Today I'm joined by two incredible
guests, Jahkazia Richardson, who is a
clinician focused on healing through
ancestral and decolonized therapy
practices, and Malik Washington, who
is passionate about encouraging black
men to embrace mental healthcare.
Welcome and thank you both for joining us.
Y'all not gonna respond.
Malik: Oh, my bad.
I I thought you were gonna keep reading.
Sorry.
Uh, but yes, no, these
like black church rules.
Melicia Witt-Glover: These
are black church rules.
Malik: My bad.
You right, my bad.
I apologize.
But, uh, I, and speaking on, I think
behalf of me education, we're definitely,
uh, appreciative of being here.
Thank you for giving us this
opportunity to speak and, uh, hopefully
we, uh, impact some people today.
Melicia Witt-Glover: All right.
All right.
Yeah.
So much gratitude in being in the space.
Thank you.
Yes.
Thank you for, for being here, and
thank y'all for sticking with us.
We had some technical difficulties,
but we are ready to go.
All right, so before we get started in
the deep discussion, let's talk about
something we've been seeing a lot online.
We've been seeing a lot of people
embracing this thing called the soft life.
So choosing peace, choosing rest,
choosing emotional boundaries.
And for many black people, it's
about rejecting the constant
grind and prioritizing our joy.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm gonna ask both of you,
Jay, I'm gonna start with you.
What do you think this soft life trend
says about how we're starting to view
emotional health in our community?
Yeah, no, great question.
I'm, I'm just so happy that folks are
prioritizing their, their emotional
wellbeing and prioritizing rest as a form
of resistance, especially under theise
of capitalism, et cetera, et cetera.
And so I'm, I'm happy that everyone
is just giving it their all and
by doing nothing, by resting.
Absolutely.
Malik, you are representing all black
men right now, so you got a heavy task.
I'm gonna ask you from a
black man's perspective.
Are y'all embracing this soft life
trend and what does it look like?
What do you think?
Malik: Um, well one, you know, I would
definitely like to go out on a limb.
It's saying not all black men are a
monolith, so there definitely will be
some brothers that will agree with me.
There will be some that
won't and that's okay.
Um, but I would definitely say I think
it's definitely 50 50 and I think
soft can look different for everybody.
Right.
Um, so what.
People view as rest may be different
from what somebody else views as rest.
Um, like me, it may be taking a nap.
Somebody else, it might be just
doing something that gets their mind
off of their everyday struggle and
or just their everyday wellbeing.
So I definitely think it's becoming
more prominent, especially, you know,
with the exposure of therapy and
kind of the making it normal now.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there's a word I wanted to use
but I couldn't think of it, but, um.
I think again, soft life is
taking on, um, its own effect to
different people in different ways.
So I would say it's probably like
75, 25 if I had to put a stat on it.
But, um, yeah, that's, that's kind
of what I see it like as of now.
Melicia Witt-Glover: What do you
think about this conversation
about healing generational trauma?
I am, um, generation XI
was raised by boomers.
Um, I'm not gonna try to figure out
how, um, what generation y'all are.
Uh, generation X, they say we were raised
on, um, neglect and water and hose water.
Um, and according to social media, gen X
has a whole lot of generational trauma.
Mm. Um, why do you think this conversation
about healing generational trauma
is resonating so strongly right now?
Mm mm Yeah, no, great question.
I think is thinking about Gen X, my
mom is, um, is Gen X as well, I think,
not me being the same age as your mama.
Okay, go ahead.
No, and I, I think about, you know,
the things that, um, the stories that
my grandmother passed down and her
grandmother passed down to, to her,
to me, and I think about the impact of
the struggle that she had to endure.
And thing about generational trauma
is, this is Jim Crow, this is slavery,
this is, you know, anything that my
mother could have possibly went through
and her mother went through, it's all
being passed down through our DNA.
And so for folks to now zoom in
and say, Hey, I want to take this
on, I think is, it's no easy feat,
but I'm glad people are doing it.
And so the thing about, um, generational
healing is like, okay, how do I, um.
Take care of my body.
How do I, uh, take care of my wellness
on a ancestral, emotional, psychological,
spiritual level and, and do what my
ancestors didn't have the access to?
How do I learn, how do I relearn the
things that are no longer serving
me that my ancestors had to do in
order to survive, but I'm not in
a space of survival anymore, so I
can, I can, I can drop that off now.
And so, um, I think people
are now learning like, okay.
I can, you know, drop my shoulders
a little bit more where we had to
be clenched up in order to survive.
How do I wanna do that differently and
how do I wanna teach my children that
they can breathe and they'll be okay?
So yeah, I love that people are
prioritizing, um, generational healing.
'cause I think it's really important.
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that.
I'm gonna come back to the question
about, we're not in survival mode anymore.
'cause I wonder if people feel like we're,
we're in a d we're not in, maybe not in
some kind of survival mode, but we might
be in a different kind of survival mode.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So maybe people don't feel like they
can unc unclench their shoulders.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know.
Absolutely.
But Malik, same question.
What do you think about this?
Uh, why do you think this, um, message
about healing generational trauma
is resonating so strongly right now?
What's going on?
What happened?
Malik: Um.
Well, yeah, definitely kind of reiterate
my point, just kind of the normalcy, even
though I know that's not a real word,
just be making normal of like, uh, therapy
people are going and really talking about
things that have happened to 'em in the
past, and people are starting to realize
like, oh, this is kind of the way I feel
because these are the stories that have
been passed down to me, or these are
the experiences that I've been told.
So now I have to keep my guard
up to make sure that, um, I am.
Not going through that same situation.
Kind of like what Ja was saying earlier.
Uh, my mom is Generation X, but my
grandparents were actually born like right
before the Great Depression, so they're
literally raised on survival, right.
So they're more so just worried about,
just make sure that you able to put
food on the table, like no matter what.
Mm-hmm.
So I think now that we are not in
those type of situations, literally,
economically, even though it feels like
it sometimes, uh, economically, socially,
um, and all that stuff, um, you know,
things just kind of have passed down.
So I definitely think it is important.
That people are realizing like, okay,
I don't have to do these things anymore
because it is not that same time and I
don't have to, nor will I have those same
experiences that my ancestors have had.
So, um, I feel like I kind of rambled,
but did I answer the question?
You did perfectly.
You did.
Melicia Witt-Glover: You did.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay with you,
Malik, because, um, you talked recently,
uh, or you talked about, um, that you
recently started going back to therapy.
So you've talked about you're,
you're happy that people
are embracing the soft life.
You talked about healing
generational trauma.
Um, and you said you've
recently gone back to therapy.
What led you to that decision and what
would you say to another black man who's
on the fence about going to therapy?
Malik: Um, I. Oof.
So what led me to get back
into it was honestly, uh.
The affordability one.
Um, through my job.
Uh, I would say also I felt like
there were some times that I wanted
to talk about things objectively, um,
and actually give positive results.
'cause sometimes when you talk with
friends and family members, they wanna
cope messages to you to obviously
not only hurt your feelings, but you
know, they want to make sure that they
are trying to do their best for you.
Um, and just say things
to you that you may.
Understand or, you know,
things that are catered to you.
Speaking with somebody objectively, not
only in my opinion, really helps you see
the real perspective of what's going on.
It helps you step outside of yourself.
Um, and that's something that I
talk to a lot of my friends and
other black men all the time.
It's that, you know, your
perspective is your reality,
but it's not the only reality.
Right.
Um, and I think that it is important
that just as human beings, that.
We see other people's realities as well.
Um, and I feel like that can help,
again, just progress people with their
lives again, not carry so much baggage.
Um, and, you know, just be
what, be a better person.
So
Melicia Witt-Glover: how'd you find your
therapist and do you like your therapist?
Malik: Um, so it's a app called
Lyra, a shameless plug, I guess.
Um.
Spell it, spell it first, and
you kind of circled through.
And honestly, I was looking for people
of color, just so I know they could be
a little more relatable and whatnot.
'cause my last therapist that I had,
she was a, uh, middle aged white woman.
Not saying that she couldn't relate, but
I know with me and my current therapist,
who is a bit of a middle aged black
woman, it's kind of more so talking
to like a family member, like an older
aunt, or like somebody that's one of my
mother's peers or something like that.
So I know she's going to again,
give it to me objectively and real.
Um.
But it doesn't feel like it's
specifically tailored to me to try
to hurt my, to not hurt my feelings.
Um, and yeah, I, I rock with Miss
Jackie, um, as well as I can.
She'll definitely, uh, let me know about
myself sometimes and be like, you just
gotta accept things for what they are.
That's our, uh, thing that we're
working on right now is acceptance.
So
Melicia Witt-Glover: tell, tell
us the website one more time.
Is Lyra Lyra Health.
Malik: Lyra Health is what
it's called, LYRA, health,
Melicia Witt-Glover: Lyra Health.
That's helpful.
And what's also helpful is you
saying you had another therapist,
you didn't like that person, you,
or you didn't rock with that person.
Not that you didn't like them, but,
and you switched and you found one
that you liked and that's helpful.
I used to, um, go to a therapist and
it was online, and I promise you.
I could hear her doing dishes
in the background sometimes.
And then I had one where I would go
and talk to her and it was like she had
popcorn, like she wasn't helping me.
She had popcorn and she
was like, girl, what?
And I was like, wait, that's not
helpful, but you are encouraging me
to go look for maybe another therapist
until I find one that is the fit for me.
So thank you for that.
Jay, I'm gonna come to you.
Yes.
Because in the intro I said that
you are a clinician focused on
healing through ancestral and
decolonized therapy practices.
Yes.
So first, tell me what decolonized
therapy practices means.
Mm. For me, decolonized
practices are centered in.
Uh, black and indigenous healing.
I think the healing that I learned
or the, the therapy, 'cause
it wasn't healing honestly.
The, the therapy practices that
I learned in grad school were for
metrics, get them from this Allan
of depression to this and gone, you
know, pushed them out the, the door.
Hmm.
And for me, I'm like, this, that's,
that's not, that doesn't align with me.
That doesn't align with my spirit.
And so.
For me, I, um, tried to find
other ways of aligning folks
with healing that felt holistic.
So I use, um, breath work practice.
I'm a kemetic reiki practitioner.
Now I utilize, um, some of the
practices, but I align them
with, um, music and, you know.
Uh, art and other ways of doing things
that are not, um, for example, cognitive
behavioral therapy, which is saying,
you know, your emotions are caused by
your thoughts, which cause behaviors.
It's like, it, it's people can be easily
gaslit to believe that, oh, well if I just
think my way out of poverty, then that,
you know, that will change my behavior and
I won't be out of, be in poverty anymore.
And I think that's disgusting
and I think that's invalidating.
And so, um, finding more practitioners
who are, um, black and brown who are
doing this work and aligning with
them is how I've aligned my practice.
So thank you for the definition
of, of decolonized therapy.
And my question is, why is that so
critical for, um, black emotional health?
Mm, because if, if, if we do things
that are aligned with Eurocentric.
Therapeutic practices.
We are, uh, erasing black mental health.
We are mm-hmm.
Putting ourselves in a box
that was never meant for us.
Um, we are like, they may work
on paper, but then we might
have to come right on back.
They may, you know, get us out the
therapy chair and we are, we're
doing our thing and then we're
gonna have to come right on back.
'cause we didn't get to the, to the root.
We.
Therapy has taught us you go here
because you're, you know, you need to
go and be fixed, and then you go be
fixed and you go back into the world.
And that's just not humanistic.
That's just like, oh, it is just,
to me, feels gross in my body.
That feels gross for someone to feel that,
um, there's something wrong with them when
they come into my space, into my office.
Because there's nothing wrong with you.
You've been through so much.
Of course, you're reacting in this way.
Of course, you're coping in this way.
And so, um, I think it's important
to meet people where they are
with the colonial practices.
'cause it centers our blackness.
It centers our humanness, it
centers our ancestry first and
foremost before our symptoms.
Symptom focus therapy is
harmful to black people.
Jay, as a clinician and Malik
as someone who's ex who's, uh,
participating in therapy, do therapists.
Just listen.
Do they help you come up with solutions?
Are you just talking like, do
they provide you with answers?
Are you leaving there with an action plan?
I know some people say your therapist
isn't supposed to tell you what to do.
They're not supposed to give
advice, they're supposed to listen.
But sometimes I find that frustrating.
I'm like, I need, I need,
I need another opinion.
And I feel like they just
keep asking me questions.
If I knew I wouldn't be here.
So what is it?
What's supposed to happen?
Um, Jay.
And then what happens?
Malik, do you get, you said, you said
your therapist tells you about yourself.
Maybe that's not normal, maybe that is.
But tell me what is, what
is it supposed to be like?
Oh, goodness.
I think it really
depends on the clinician.
And I hope, I know people are probably
gonna hate hearing that, but it
really depends on the clinician.
I think, you know, I always
tell my clients and I, I think
my, my clients appreciate that.
But I, I will drag you by your edges.
Come, come on over here,
come into my office.
We're gonna have to have a conversation.
Um, because I'm not gonna,
you know, I'm not gonna, um.
Let someone harm themselves, but
I'm not gonna tell you what to do.
I'm gonna ask you, what are your values?
What do you value, and how is
it showing up in your behavior?
Does it, is this aligned what you want?
What, what do you want?
What are your values?
Is this aligned, yay or nay?
And it's up to the person to
say, Hey, I wanna do this.
Hey, I, I don't wanna do this, or
I'm gonna, I see it's not a lot.
I'm gonna do it anyway.
Okay.
You know, and, and them being
accepted and holding themself
accountable to that behavior.
I'm not gonna say, Hey,
well I wouldn't do that.
I'll just say, Hey, you, you sure?
And then they make that decision.
That's for me
now, Malik, is that how Ms.
Jackie gets you together?
Malik: Yeah.
You know, I don't have any edges
to be grabbed by, but, um, she
definitely grabs a wave or two.
If I got the durag on, she'd
definitely snatch that.
But, um, no, I definitely would
say, um, no, miss Jackie, um, she
definitely, so we come up with an
action plan after every session.
Um, and I do my best to try to follow
suit with it, follow through with it.
Um, but yeah, no, she definitely, I'll.
I will just kind of talk and she'll ask
me questions and she's like, sometimes
she's like, you already know the answer.
You're just kind of looking
for somebody to confirm it.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not gonna be the person to
confirm it for you because you already
know what you should do anyway.
So you just kind of have to.
Yes.
You just need to be the one to do it.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, okay, that's real.
Now, other times there are
questions that I just ask her.
Even just, again, just as an older person
in general who has more life experience,
I'm like, what do you think of this?
And she'll give me her answer and opinion.
I'm like, okay.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Mm-hmm.
Malik: I'll write that down, see
what I can come up with with my
own experience and everything.
But yeah, I definitely
would say it's twofold.
But, um, I would say her
education have a lot of, uh,
similarities from what I'm hearing.
So,
Melicia Witt-Glover: so when we, so
when we go to the, when we go to the the
Lyra app and we look for a therapist,
we need the category to be Auntie Black.
Auntie.
That's auntie.
Or you wrong?
Yeah.
I'm telling you.
Yes.
Put that as a category.
Put that as a category.
We need to, for those who have these apps,
make sure you have that as a category.
'cause we're coming and we're looking for
therapists and we want that as a category.
Malik: Ali.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Okay.
My, okay.
My next question is about.
Black people being open with our emotions.
Now, I want to say that there's still some
stigma around us showing emotions, but
um, I will also admit that my favorite
genre of television is reality tv.
Mm-hmm.
And they have no problem crashing out.
So what I'm trying to figure out is, is
there still a stigma associated with black
people being open about our emotions?
And is it.
Is it dependent on the environment
or who's viewing it or what does that
look like in terms of the stigma?
Malik: Hmm.
Uh, I actually will go ahead
and answer that question first.
'cause I also used to be a big reality
TV show head, to be honest with you.
Um, but I definitely feel like the stigma.
It is there.
It's not as strong as it used to be.
Like, you know, there used to be the
trope of the angry black woman when
she's just trying to express herself
or just actually talk about a situation
that is affecting her in a way that
she does not like, which is fair.
Um, but I definitely feel like.
It is not as bad as it used
to be, especially in the
reality TV show sense, right?
You have shows where, um, there are women
of caucus descent who are also, you know,
going off, crashing out, as you would
say, you know, just doing something that
you would expect a black woman to do.
So I feel like with that, and then just
obviously again, kind of just therapy.
With everything that's going on
and just the evolvement of time, I
definitely feel like it has reduced.
Prime example, there is no reason that
pumpkin should have spent on New York.
That's a total inappropriate
emotional crash out that's,
that was totally inappropriate.
And yeah, like that was outrageous.
And if it was the other way around,
they'd have been like, oh, New
York is an angry black woman.
She's a sore loser, da da da da.
But no.
And now that we have the tools and
the progression to realize like, no,
first of all, that's not a normal human
reaction, but that's super inappropriate.
But now that we have the dudes like,
oh, people can react any type of way,
it's just not on a race of people.
Mm-hmm.
Men or women.
So yeah.
Mm.
Melicia Witt-Glover: I don't know how to
follow up, but I don't know what, I was
also thinking about Flavor, flavor and
bad girls club that I had no business
watching when I was in middle school.
But hey, we're here now.
It builds character fire shows
Malik: earth's.
Sure.
Come on man.
Fire shows
Melicia Witt-Glover:
crashing out all the time.
Yeah.
You know, I was like, I wonder.
Yeah, millennials growing up
on the cracks out generation.
I don't know.
Uh, I will say.
I think showing, showing your emotions or.
Quote unquote, crashing out has been
de-stigmatized from social media,
TikTok, uh, online, et cetera, et cetera.
But I wonder, I don't know if it's been
de-stigmatized in the therapeutic realm.
Uh, I still think people still,
I don't see it as much in the
younger generation at, 'cause most
of my clients are, are younger.
But I think, you know, people in
their, um, general generation X and up.
I've, I haven't seen them coming as much.
Uh, they kind of just keeping it pushing.
So, um, I think it really depends
generationally, like I said,
outwardly, people will put up a
screen and say exactly what they
need to say and put it on, on social
media or online or, um, on the tv.
But I don't, I don't see it in, in my,
um, my therapy office as much as I'm still
having to pull people in, into the room.
So.
That's my opinion on that.
To, to pull people into the
room to express their emotions.
Mm-hmm.
To pull people in the room.
Say more about that.
So I still think there are folks who,
uh, I'll guess I'll say the, as someone
who has a, a black father wound, there's
some black fathers, black mothers, et
cetera, that need to be in the therapy
office, but feel like they don't need it.
So.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and I know, you know, people's,
other people's friends, their mamas,
their fathers, they're like, oh
yeah, I'm not going to therapy.
I don't need it.
Yeah.
Um, and I think.
For that generation in particularly,
I've been having a hard time either
getting them into my office or my
colleagues, my friends, my clients.
They're having a hard time getting
them into the therapy office.
That generation, specifically, aside
from stigma, what are some emotional
challenges that you think are
unique to, to us, to black people?
Things that we don't talk about enough.
So we talked about stigma, but are there
any other emotional challenges that are
unique to us that we aren't talking about?
Malik: I would say at least
from the black male perspective,
getting pulled over like.
That I feel like no matter how many
times, no matter how many things
progress, there's still like an
unnerving feeling about it because
you just don't know how it goes.
And I wish there was a way we could
like progress emotionally to not
necessarily worry and have that
like fight or flight mentality.
'cause I've been pulled over several
times not doing anything and.
I just, I, my body just
automatically tenses up.
I already have the wallet out,
I already have the idea out.
I'm just like, look, I'm just trying to
get outta here and go home about my day.
Because I've seen too many times
where somebody has done that same
exact thing and it has not resulted
in them being able to go home.
So, mm-hmm.
I feel like I wish that was something
that we could kind of progress past and
just be able to relax in that as well.
Uh, emotionally.
That's the only thing
I can really think of.
Um, that comes to mind, but
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm mm,
I wish we were talking about and
de-stigmatizing single motherhood more.
I, I, I think people.
I just see so much in the, in, um, in
social media around the, um, violence
against single, single mothers and single
women in the way of, um, the ways that
they talk down, et cetera, et cetera.
And, and there's no kindness and
there's, there's no compassion
for the amount of strength that
it takes to be a single parent.
And I wish that.
We could de-stigmatize that and w we
wish we could give our single parents
more, uh, kindness, more compassion, more
love, more grace, and more resources.
Um, because it's, it's just
not talked about enough.
Both of those situations, I think, result
in, in people maybe like, like getting.
Super amped up in a particular mm-hmm.
Uh, in a particular situation.
Mm-hmm.
And then not necessarily being in
a place where you can let that out.
Mm-hmm.
So then mm-hmm.
Um, so, so what that makes me think
is there another emotional challenge
around, around coping skills.
So say, Malik, I'll use you as an example.
You get pulled over.
You're, you're nervous, you're,
you're, you're amped up.
They, they send you on your way,
but you're, that adrenaline is high.
You've got all this emotion.
How, how do you, what are the coping
skills that people are using to,
um, to ramp back down and is that
a challenge that we're not talking
about enough in terms of how we cope?
Do we have coping skills?
Do we have healthy coping skills,
or is that something that's
also impacting our communities?
Malik: I was definitely gonna say,
uh, healthy coping skills is important
because people would definitely turn
to drugs and alcohol and substance
abuse, uh, which is very unfortunate.
Mm-hmm.
I know for me in those situations,
especially if it's like at night, I
usually try to roll my windows down
and let the wind just kind of keep me
calm until I get to my destination.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I mean, again, that's
just something that works for me.
That may not work for everybody else.
Some people might wanna hit the
gym, some people might wanna just.
Go home and go to sleep
and relax or do whatever.
Um, and again, kind of to my point
earlier, black people are not a
monolith, so what works for me
does not, may not work for you.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so it's kind of hard to say if we as
a people have healthy, uh, coping skills.
Um, but I definitely think there
are some places out there also kind
of sidebar, kind of not sidebar.
I wish that.
Black people would be more open to doing
things that are considered white things.
Um, just because that also could be
another healthy coping mechanism.
Maybe you do need to go
camping to get out in nature.
Maybe you do need to do
something adventurous and
bungee jump off a building.
I don't know, but you know.
Melicia Witt-Glover:
I'm not bungee jumping.
I don't care what color
it is, but go ahead.
Me
Malik: neither.
But again, just don't be afraid to try it.
Just don't, because you feel like
that's something that is outside of
our culture, you know what I mean?
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
And that may genuinely help you, you
know, relax and do something else
and get over whatever situation.
So.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah, absolutely.
Um, no, I think that was a great question
and what comes to my mind around coping.
This is especially thinking
about what, um, Malik said in
regards to getting pulled over.
I just think about Jim Crow.
I think about all, all
of it, all Jim Crow laws.
I think about the, um.
Prison pipeline and, and the
generational trauma that we've
had to endure in, in general.
When that happens, you know, when
we're getting pulled over, we're
not just fearful for our lives.
We're, we're holding the, the fear
of every person in our generation,
in our ancestry that ever got pulled
over, we're holding all of that.
Um, and so in thinking about coping
through, the first thing that
came to my mind is, is community.
I mean, I think the things that we are
holding cannot be held by ourselves,
and we are honestly stronger together.
Um, and I, I know it sounds cliche,
but I, I really think it's, it's
too much for one person to, to bear.
Um, all of our nervous systems are
suffering when, when one of us is
harmed in those way, in that way.
Yeah.
That is literally my next question.
Perfect segue was my next question
was gonna be, how does being connected
to your community or your culture
help support emotional wellbeing?
Jay, you started talking about it, but
you said, being in community, we can't,
we can't handle it, um, on our own.
Yeah.
So being in community, but, but what
specifically does being connected to
your community or your culture helps,
uh, how does that specifically help
support your emotional wellbeing?
For me, being connected to my culture
and to community helps me to find or
feel a sense of belonging and a sense of.
Um, connection with others',
connection with self.
I feel like I can be myself.
I feel like I can be
creative in my community.
Um, I feel like I have the,
the outlet, the outlet to be,
uh, creative in my community
because I know I'll be supported.
I know I'll be poured into in ways
that other communities, I don't feel
there's just a, a lightness that I
feel when I'm with, with my folks.
We, you know, we convene, um, we, the, the
Council on Black Health has a convening
every other year, and we bring folks
together to talk about, uh, you know,
our research and to talk about what we're
gonna do as it relates to, um, you know,
optimizing health in black communities.
And one of the things that people
say is what they feel about that
space as academics coming from
places where they might be the
only person in their department.
Is, it's, it's just so helpful to
not feel othered and to not have
to temper conversation or to not
have to remember that you can't,
you have to explain certain things.
Oh, cold switch or your hair.
Like you can just Exactly.
We might not all agree, but
there, it's one thing that's
not going to be, uh, different.
It's just this discomfort and
being the only person mm-hmm.
Who looks like you in a place where you
just don't feel like you can be yourself.
So with that said, Malik, your previous
question was about trying new things.
So after we finished bungee jumping
off the mountains of caucus and we come
back together with our people in our
communities, from your perspective,
how does being connected to your
community or con or culture help you
support your emotional wellbeing?
Malik: I just gave the
suggestion toe bungee jumping.
I didn't say I was doing it.
Melicia Witt-Glover: No, we going
bungee jumping after this, but go ahead.
No, no.
Malik: I'm afraid of heights.
But um, I know for me, um, kind of
actually ironically what we were talking
about off camera, just kind of like,
you know, the vibes and everything.
It's always good to see people, uh,
that do look like you with good energy
and collective energy, whether that
be smiles or just watching people
express themselves like Jay said.
Um.
That usually to me brings
a sense of happiness.
Um, and I feel like happy energy carries
throughout, um, you know, your actual
body, your soul, and just it continues
to uplift you in kind of the recurring
theme of the community conversation.
Unless you know, like
you have support and.
Almost every way, shape or form.
Mm-hmm.
You know, there's somebody who's either
been through what you have been through
and they're willing to share those
resources, or at least be able to relate
to you and hear you out and kind of give
you the same perspective, if not there a
different perspective that they've had.
Um, but yeah, community
is definitely important.
Um.
When it comes to just feeling good
about yourself, especially after going
through something that could have been
traumatic or just letting you know that
there's somebody that has your back.
'cause we as human beings
are not meant to be alone.
We're not lone wolves.
It's always important
to have that community.
Just know that you are not alone, so,
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
What can people do if they wanna
take care of their emotional health,
but they don't have access to
therapy or professional support?
Malik: I always say
exercise is a good one.
I've actually started running recently.
Um, I'm also a big roller skater,
uh, so that helps out a lot.
I actually just went skating
yesterday and I'm going again tonight.
Um, but yeah, just kind of doing
something that helps sharpen your
mind and gets your mind off of the
immediate stuff that's going on.
Um, and there's nothing wrong with,
you know, getting healthier, so.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Uh, what comes to my
mind is to create more that you consume.
So when you are noticing like, huh,
I'm not, well, let's look at, you
know, look at what you're consuming.
Are you on TikTok for 12 hours?
You what?
What's happening?
And create.
Create just as much as you are consuming.
So.
A book that I really like.
If you don't have any access, I'm just
thinking about, you know, during the
pandemic when I didn't have access
to, to therapy, I really appreciated
The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron.
And it talks about getting
creatively unstuck.
A lot of folks, um, who
are, um, navigating grief,
sadness, um, uh, emotion, like
decreased emotional wellbeing.
A lot of times need to create in some
type of way, whether it be I'm gonna
paint something, I'm gonna draw something,
I'm gonna sing something, I'm gonna
write something, get a journal, and I
recommend The Artist Way by Julia Cameron,
get to creating, get to getting out
outside in the in the world and seeing
and see how that makes you feel at the
end of the 12 weeks is my suggestion.
I like that.
Create more than you can consume, create.
That's a far, I'm not
gonna lie to you, right?
That's a far create more
than you can soon, I promise.
You will feel better.
That is good stuff.
I had another, I got another question.
Um, we've been asking people to define
this, so I'm gonna ask you, we're
talking about emotional, um, wellbeing
for this, uh, for this session.
If you could describe what thriving, not
just surviving, but what does thriving
as it relates to emotional wellbeing.
What does that look like?
What does it look like to thrive?
You could just, you could just spit words.
It doesn't have to be a specific
definition, but when you, when you close
your eyes and picture somebody that's
thriving, as it relates to emotional
wellbeing, what are the characteristics?
What comes to mind?
Mm. What do you see?
What peace, what does it feel like?
Peace.
Peace and clarity.
I feel like when I am, when my
wellbeing is up here, I have.
Peace.
I have clarity and I have courage to
make, you know, for those boundaries
to, to be wherever they need to be.
And when I, when my emotional wellbeing
is a little bit lower, my, I'm not clear.
I don't, I don't feel, I feel fearful
and my boundaries are all over the place.
I'm letting people do things
that they normally wouldn't do.
I'm doing things that
I normally wouldn't do.
And so, yeah, those three things for me,
Malik: uh, yeah, for me, I
would say probably balance.
Um, in moderation.
Mm-hmm.
I definitely think balance is
probably the most important thing
that anybody can have in your life.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, honestly, 'cause you don't
ever want to be on either
side of the scale too much.
Um, so that honestly, at least in
my opinion, when you talk about
thriving 'cause it's somebody who
also, um, being present, right?
So being present in your
emotions and what they are.
So, no, you're not always gonna be
happy, but when you are happy, you need
to acknowledge like, wow, I'm really
happy right now and I need to enjoy
this because I know at some point.
It may end, it may turn the table
or whatever, but right now, while
it's going on, I'm gonna enjoy
this for the ride that it is.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
When you are down, okay, acknowledge
that you are sad and sit in
that, don't let it consume you.
Create, you know, create opportunities
of happiness and uh, you know, just
continue to just try to find that
perfect leap, your skill of balance.
And that's what almost any and
every emotion that I can think of.
So that's what thriving looks like to me.
Melicia Witt-Glover: So both of you
all gave great definitions of thriving.
My next question is, what
stops us from getting there?
What stops us from being there
on a daily basis right now?
Imbalance.
Malik: Imbalance,
Melicia Witt-Glover: but like
what, what's causing the imbalance?
Like what's the, what's going on?
Malik: Staying on two, staying on one side
of the scale longer than the other, right?
So, like for example, um, again, like
I said, it's okay to acknowledge that
you are sad and upset about something,
but you don't wanna sit and wallow in it
because eventually that will consume you
and you may forget what true happiness
looks like, or you may forget the things
that have made you happy, um, or et
cetera, some things of that nature.
And also on the flip side.
Not to say you don't want to be too
happy, but you also don't wanna be
in such a state of euphoria that it
becomes delusional and that you're
not really realizing the other
things that are going on around you.
Like, yeah, oh, I'm so happy about
this one thing, but you don't have no
food at home, or something like that.
You know what I mean?
Like you need to.
Figure something out to where
you can emotionally balance
and emotionally create.
Because again, you just don't
wanna be on one side too long.
'cause if something that does happen
that's really tragic and you are on
a super high horse now, that may hit
you a lot lower than if you were just,
you know, emotionally even killed.
So,
Melicia Witt-Glover: mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So what, so what I'm also hearing
then is like, you, you, you have to
have that balance and, and sometimes
being out of BA balance can mean we
have too many high highs and low lows.
But what I'm also hearing with
what's stopping us from getting
there is we don't necessarily.
Have the tools in place to know
how to strike that balance.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
So that might be one of the things that's
stopping us from staying there is not,
we need, we need to develop our toolbox.
So I want you to keep that in mind.
'cause my next question is gonna be
asking you to give us one or two tools.
Mm. I give you a little sneak peek.
Yeah.
Keep that in mind.
Yeah.
Jay, I'm gonna go to you.
Your definition of thriving.
What's, what's stopping us
from being there right now?
Yeah.
I, I love the question thinking
about like, um, balance and how.
And how it's hard to gain clarity
and feel like you are, um, your, your
boundaries are all over the place.
I think on both ends, if we were thinking
about, one is I am in, I am in danger
like hell and 10 is like I'm elated.
We only feel, at least from from my
clients, from what I'm seeing and from my
experience as well, it's like we only feel
the extremes we feel when we're at a one.
We feel out a two, three, we'll feel
like we're at when we're at a 7, 8,
9, but when we're in here, we're just.
We we're just, you know, kinda,
eh, so when we get off kilter, it's
like, oh, I gotta be at a, at a one
in order for me to course correct.
You know what's happening when you notice
you are going from a a seven to 6, 5,
4, 3, 2, and now you're in crisis mode.
What's happening?
You know?
Did you stop drinking?
Are you drinking your water?
Are you going for your, for
your morning walks, you know
that you normally were doing?
Did your screen time go up?
Are you calling your friends any,
did you start ghosting people?
Like what are your, um, what
are the things that you are,
uh, doing or not doing anymore?
And how did that shift and what happened?
And I think people aren't.
Doing that.
People aren't checking in any 'cause.
We're just go, go, go, go, go.
We don't, we are not giving ourself
any time to be like, dang, I, I
haven't gone for my walk in a week.
My water is still sitting at.
9:00 AM and 3:00 PM you know, just
the, the little things every day
that we, you know, kind of, it
just kind of gets away from us.
And so those little micro, um, habits
add up to like, to um, us getting from a
seven to a three over time, just from us
not doing the things that bring us joy.
So, so I'm hearing we don't spend
enough time doing the things that,
that bring us joy, but it also
sounds like we might not even know
or recognize what balance looks like.
Correct.
So we can only respond in cri like we're,
we can only respond in crisis mode.
So we need to figure out what balance
looks like so that we can stay there.
Yes, because my balance is gonna
look completely when I'm in balance.
I'm drinking my gallon, you know, I'm
calling my, my family back on time.
Um, meal prepping when I'm out of.
You want a whopper, you know, like
it's a very different type of pers I'm
a very different type of person when
I'm out of balance versus when I'm in
balance and checking, like letting your
people know, Hey, if I ain't call you
in three days, you need to check on
me because I know I am, I'm slipping.
The things that keep me in balance
or keep me centered or keep me, um,
my emotional wellbeing are now out of
balance and I need, I need to do that.
I'm, I'm not clear,
I'm doing the thing so.
You know, I know I said this was the last
question, but now I have another question.
Do you think that we just
are conditioned to and more
comfortable in operating in chaos?
Yes.
So like, so like I balance just
doesn't even feel right, like being,
being in balance when there's nothing.
It sounds like when there's
nothing wrong, that's when you
feel like something's wrong.
Yes.
People, you know, the people that try
to make find trouble or do, because
it's like, oh, there's no drama.
You know, again, just like
people don't watch the tv, if
there's no dr, they're bored.
The nervous system is
like, oh, there's no drama.
I'm not, I'm not twitching.
I'm not up all night.
I don't have insomnia.
Malik: Huh.
That's how I feel about people
that watch Love Island right now.
Uh huh.
Love Island.
That's, I feel about everybody that's
watching Love Island right now.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Yeah.
I'm gonna say I just spent all weekend
catching up and now I'm all, I'm all
mad and I'm like, I'm not even on that.
I'm like, why?
I realize, I'm like, why am I upset?
I'm like, oh, I'm upset because, and see,
that's a whole different conversation.
Our nervous systems don't
know if we there or not.
So that's a whole other conversation.
I feel like this is something
that we might have to think about.
I know we don't have time to
talk about it on this podcast.
Maybe we can, um, have you all come back.
That's a really interesting concept
that we are so conditioned to, to
chaos and drama and sensationalism
that it feels weird to not have that.
And so when we talk about needing
to be in balance, we don't even, we,
it's, we might not even recognize
how to stay there because who
we only know how to respond to.
And this extremes.
Malik: It's so crazy because I was
just having a conversation with a
few of my frat brothers like this
maybe two weeks ago that I'm like,
yo, it's not that I'm bored, but I'm
so used to operating in chaos that
like it's become a normality now.
So kind of to your point, like when
there's no calm in the storm, like I try
to enjoy it, but I just automatically
know like it's always something that's
gonna go on something super ridiculous.
Like my life has always been
very chaotic and erratic.
That's why I'm like at this point.
It just is what it is.
I'll get through it, whatever the
situation may be, but it's just
always something extreme going on.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So people fear peace.
Melicia Witt-Glover: People fear peace,
honestly, was that the opposite of both
of your definitions of thriving and what?
Emotional wellbeing.
So now we gotta think
about that as a community.
So, so last question as we wrap up.
We always like to leave our listeners
with something practical they can do,
and maybe we even stay with this, this
notion of of, of getting used to not
being in chaos, but what is one simple
thing that someone can do this week
to support their emotional wellbeing?
Any of the topics that we talked about?
Um.
Malik: No, I'm get it.
Melicia Witt-Glover: You crazy bunche.
I get it.
Y'all are not your insurance plan.
Do not try this at home.
Please, please don't.
One thing, one simple thing
you can do this week to support
your emotional wellbeing.
In addition to bungee jumping.
Mm, write about your bungee
jumping experience, rights.
Rights, please write.
We're not writing enough.
We're not writing enough.
We're not writing enough.
It doesn't have to be in cursive.
Young people.
No.
Right.
We're in a, you know, texting generation.
We're in shorthand.
We're people aren't putting pen
to paper anymore, and so get
you a journal, write something.
So that's, that's a different
thing because there's something
different that happens when you
physically pick up a pen and paper.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So when you say something that
you can do this week to support
your emotional wellbeing is right.
You're not talking about
putting it in your text journal.
You're talking about actually
get a whole piece of paper.
Yes.
Get a PE line paper, college style
College, college rule.
Yeah, exactly.
College rule.
And because when you write it in
your, or when you type it in, you
are giving your brain time to edit.
We don't wanna edit, we just wanna write.
We need to dump it all out because
it's just stuck in your nervous system.
It's just stuck in your body.
And so when you just let that
energy go from head to hand, no
edits, just keep it, just write.
Write for 10, 20 minutes and you will
be surprised at how much you release.
Mm-hmm.
That's my homework for all of y'all.
I'm gonna check it in
the next, in the next
Malik: episode.
Nah, that's real.
I know whenever I do journal on my
journal app, I actually prefer to do
audio messages for that exact reason.
So that way I could just like let
everything out instead of mm-hmm.
Kind of like what you said,
instead of trying to type and edit.
Now I just need to get this off.
Yes,
Melicia Witt-Glover: I do have a
plug for an app then yes, there's an
app called Otter that you could do.
I used to do the same thing.
Um, when I'm driving I'm like, I can't,
I can't go off the way I want to road
rage or whatever the thing is put on
the auto app and it will not only.
Um, record it for you.
It will transcribe it for you and
like, um, highlight any themes.
So if you're like, man, for three weeks
I've been talking about this same man.
Okay.
We need, we need to talk about that.
It's Otter, O-T-T-E-R.
Otter.
Otter, yes.
So that might be one of
the things you can do.
Sponsor them for therapy.
I know if you can't afford, you
can't afford a therapist and
it's gonna highlight themes.
That might be one of the themes.
E exactly.
Malik: Yeah.
Promo.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Like it
Malik: oof you just, you just, oh my God.
That's another story.
Um, I would say my practical thing,
just be outside, uh, be a community.
Enjoy the sun.
Kind of like what you said
this 4th of July weekend.
I don't know if those who
choose to celebrate its
National Barbecue Day period.
Um, so go out, get you some
food, you know what I mean?
Enjoy yourself.
Melicia Witt-Glover: Go touch
grass and get some food.
All right, I got you.
Thank you so much Jay and Malik
for sharing your wisdom and
your personal stories today.
It has been.
A good time.
We have laughed.
I feel like I am emotionally well
after this session with you all.
It felt like free therapy.
Jay, don't send me a bill.
I appreciate you.
Um, to our listeners, emotional
wellbeing is deeply personal
and it's also deeply powerful.
We hope today's episode gave you
something to reflect on and something
to add, Dawn, and to continue the
conversation, please follow us on
social media or visit us at council bh.
That's council bh.org for
more resources and updates.
This has been reimagining Black Health.
I'm Dr. Militia Whit Glover.
Until next time, be well
and keep re-imagining what
health looks like for you.