Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to Portfolio Perspective: Managing Risk & Seizing Opportunity, a podcast focused on the asset-based lending industry. Join Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at Asset Compliant Solutions, as he interviews experts, shares insights, and explores strategies for managing risk, optimizing portfolio performance, and seizing opportunities in an ever-evolving financial landscape. From regulatory changes to technological advances, each episode provides actionable takeaways and deep dives into industry trends. Whether you’re a lender, servicer, or recovery expert, this podcast offers valuable perspectives to enhance your approach and improve outcomes.
We're not replacing anybody.
It's just giving people more meaningful tasks, decision making to to do and and take away
some of the um smaller tasks that are repetitive and and not the fun part of the job.
What can we do to continue to do the do more with the same number of people or a similar
number of people and and scale so our our metrics are a little bit better.
Welcome back to ACS Portfolio Perspective.
I'm your host, Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at ACS, joined today by Darren
Lesey, Chief Operating Officer and Senior Vice President at Oakmont Capital Services.
With more than 20 years in equipment finance and a CLFP designation, Darren brings rare
depth across both operations and industry leadership.
As a COO, he has been uh one of the architects of Oakmont's high tech, high touch
operating model.
Building the team and systems that have powered the company's growth from an eleven person
Minnesota office startup in twenty eighteen to an organization approaching a hundred
employees today.
He's a former president of NIFA, a six year NIFA board member, and has served on the ELFA
Industry Future Council.
Darren, welcome to the show.
Hey, great to be here, Andrew.
Thanks for having me.
You're welcome.
It's great to have you here.
There's a lot to unpack, especially given the growth Oakman has has had and the
perspective you bring across both operations and industry leadership.
I'd like to start with the foundation and then build from there.
Sure.
So with Oakmont's growth story and what it takes to scale an organization, you know, the
right way.
When you look back at the journey from eleven employees to nearly a hundred, what were the
most important decisions early on that shaped how you scaled?
Good question.
It's it's it's fun to look back, right?
Sometimes it's looking in the rearview mirror helps us direct where we're gonna go
forward.
Um, but it's been it's been enjoyable looking back 'cause it was a a great time, it was
crazy times too in twenty eighteen when we started this office when we joined the the
headquarters that's in Westchester, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma Capital.
We had known them for a long time, done a lot of business together when I was at my
previous company.
And uh we joined and, you know, we've been able to thankfully add a bunch of local people
since.
uh and and people in both offices.
So, you know, across both offices is where we get close to that hundred people.
And um, you know, for us it's really about adding culture first.
that's been the biggest thing.
You know, we've been fortunate to have a lot of good friends in the industry that have
wanted to come work with us that we've worked with in the past together, um, that have
some experience, you know, and can jump right in.
that's a big thing.
But otherwise, you know, we're we're picking up people from various
Directions, it's gotten to a point now where we're very thankful where referrals are a
good source of our uh recruiting and growth.
Um, but at the same time, you know, we want to make sure, again, number one, we tell
people culture is most important to us.
You know, we can teach you this business.
It's not rocket science.
It is definitely some keys to it that you you learn, but we we just want to make sure you
fit in with the the environment that we have and we're so proud of uh what's helped build
us and and kept us together to the point that we're at today.
So
Thank you.
So you you guys are known for having very low employee attra employee attrition.
How intentional has that been as a strategy versus something that's evolved naturally?
I'd say it's a little bit of both.
Obviously it's an intention, I think, probably for all companies to try to maintain that
'cause it's an expense and time and um, you know, can really, you know, change your focus.
So we've been fortunate not to have to do that too much.
Um, but uh it's a conscious effort.
We we truly value our employees as our greatest assets.
We we say that publicly, we present that to to them, we present that to others others,
excuse me.
But we try to model that as well by, you know, taking care of them the best that we can.
and spending time talking to them and and listening.
You know, I think a lot of times people can talk to their employees, but aren't they do
they listen, do they pay attention to them, they get to know them?
Um and I I truly find a lot of pleasure and enjoyment in that, having those conversations
and not just about work, um, but walking around, you think of, you know, old school
management, the walkabout management where you actually spend some time walking around
talking to the employees, find out, you know, not just how their weekend was, but what
their plans are for the summer, et cetera.
Um through that you glean some good nuggets of information about their personal life that
are are great connections that you can make.
And so um I think when we have connected employees and then we use those connections to
help drive, you know, their own growth.
Where you where do you see yourself, where do you wanna go?
Um, we ask them other questions, you know, how are how are things working in your
department?
Are there things that you see day to day that maybe we should um think about, you know,
reviewing, changing, you know, at least talking about, you know.
So
Um, those things have been very important, I think, is just spending time talking to them,
um and and getting to getting to know them and giving them input in what we do on a day to
day basis.
That's great.
So I mean it really sounds like you care, right?
and you talked about listening um to your employees.
How do you operationalize that and actually turn that input into process improvements?
Sure.
Um, you know, so let's say for example we're taking looking at a new technology, um, for
whatever it is, let's say, or uh a process improvement of some sort.
We try to involve, you know, potentially leaders from each group that it may affect.
So we don't try to say, Hey, you know, I know best and IT knows best or, you know, so and
so knows best.
We say, you know, we maybe we have one or two people that are kinda helping co lead the
project or even just the inquiry, if you will.
but then we include people that if
touches day day.
It's a supervisor in that department or maybe somebody that's a very good, you know,
person that's good at testing software or has a great, you know, knowledge of our
business, but also technology, you know, which we're fortunate to have.
Some of those are kind of a hybrid brain, you know, that I'm very, you know, they're very
thankful to have.
but we get those people in the same room and we talk about what we're looking at doing and
open up for questions and, you know, people to really, you know, test what we're thinking
about doing.
Um, you know, ask the tough questions and
And then be along for the ride as far as, hey, you know, I think we're gonna pursue this
technology.
Let's say, for example, it's verification of identity, you know, new software, and and
asking the questions like, well, how will this affect, you know, the sales process?
You know, if we decide we want to get a driver's license at a certain point of the
application process, who does it and when?
And how does that re you know affect the customer and the the vendor relationship, et
cetera?
so we want to hear that.
So, you know, not always you think of including
all departments, but we always make sure sales is included.
That's not always the case in technology.
Sometimes left out, I think.
So that's always ops and, you know, technology, the IT team.
But we try to make sure sales involved because those customer relationships are why we're
here and the only way we're here.
So we need to have their input to make sure that we're not disrupting anything and get
their their buy in.
So I think having the trust in the employees, but also just welping them in there because
they they know better, you know, while I have a good idea of what's going on day to day.
I don't know all the
the nuances and something that's right there doing the job is gonna be our best source of
information in my opinion.
So thank you.
And and from a COO's perspective, how do you balance credit discipline, operational
efficiency and sales momentum without compromising any one of those areas?
Yeah.
Well it's it's definitely not a perfect science, Andrew.
It's I mean it takes lots of conversations and we we talk about it internally where it's
just kind of human nature where every few months you just kinda gotta talk about it again
and say, Hey, you know, we're let's just so he's just sending an email, you know, let's
talk to people, pick up the phone, call each other, you know, work through, you know, any
nuances of like, hey, you know, we're structuring a deal that shouldn't be structured or,
you know, we're selling, you know, terms that you weren't approved or something.
Not that that happens often, but you know, there's just
Def definite different wishes for each department, for example.
And I'm just thinking credit and sales right now.
Um, you know, we're and and we're all here to get the deal done.
Nobody wants to prevent that.
We're all here to try to get it done.
It's just a matter of trying to make it the most efficient process.
So, um, and and making sure that what if we ask a little bit more from sales, does that
make it a little easier for credit and a lot easier for docs?
And if docs just picks up something, does it make easier for, you know, the other
departments, for example, and the along the
the stream, if you will, as it flows down river to to funding.
Um, so you're really just trying to work those things down and just having open
conversations about like how can we improve and is there some give and take in each area?
Um, or is there potentially a process we can just eliminate?
Yeah, we've done this for so long and it's the way we've always done it, right?
You know.
Uh but is it time to maybe stop always doing that and just take that out and do do
something different with it.
Great.
No, thank you.
I appreciate that.
So the foundation ties into how you think about the portfolio itself.
So let's shift into strategy and how you're positioning the business.
So Oakman takes a fairly broad approach across asset classes with concentrations in uh
compact construction, landscaping, the last mile delivery.
What is the strategic thinking behind that mix?
You know, we we have a really good amount of expertise on our sales team and and and
operations team and the leadership team that have all worked in those areas for so long.
You know, it's kinda if it isn't broke, don't fix it mentality a little bit, you know, but
we've really developed strong relationships there.
We're very proud of that.
Relationships that span ten, fifteen, twenty years where, you know, there's a lot of hugs
that happen at a trade show, you know, or a dealer meeting.
Um, we the sales team and in our
and their sales team, you know, have true uh conversations that are outside of work and
just, you know, they know each other well and trust each other and and we've been through
recessions together or we've been through, you know, cro COVID and all that stuff and we
know that we have each other's back.
So that helps a lot and that's why we stick with what we know a little bit in there.
And it's also been a source of, you know, performance history that we know again through,
you know, downturns and and we know how we can come out of it.
We have a good ass you know, knowledge of the assets and I think
there's a lot of our sales team that if needed be in a pinch they could step into a trade
show booth and help sell the equipment for some of our manufacturers or the dealers
because they've gotten to know the actual models and, you know, w what they can do, the
reach of the X Meter, you know, those little nuances that could be very helpful 'cause
they they care to know that equipment.
So um, you know, I and and those pieces, you know, I think it's also the excuse me, the
relationships that we have, the equipment that they sell goes across many different
industries.
So
It just works well to to stick with all of those.
So we we certainly have some other uh initiatives and some other areas that we'll probably
look into going into and some smaller concentrations.
But, you know, we we enjoy doing that stuff.
So we like to continue doing it and and just grow within that.
That's awesome.
And as far as your geographic presence and, you know, uh industry diversification factors
into um your overall risk management.
Um, how do you approach that?
Sure.
We, you know, naturally because of the dealer networks that we work with, you know, we
have some of the natural geographical, you know, dispersement of concentration, if you
will, you know, where the more populous areas are, of course, that's where we have more
business on the on the coast and the South Central and you know, but we are in all fifty
states and uh we monitor to see how many um how many contracts and what the performance is
in each each state and whether opportunities there are in some states that maybe aren't as
strong at this point, but we just continue to find new niches within those areas, maybe
complimentary equipment or w you know, whatever.
But um so we we monitor and see how things are doing in each of those areas.
We don't have any, you know, concentrations that are too much.
It's it's very diversified and we're and that's you know happened by on purpose and and
and a little bit naturally as well.
So
That's a great segue into the next question.
Um, 'cause it talks about some you know, portfolio health.
Um, what are some early indicators as you monitor uh to assess the health of the portfolio
and how do you respond when you see, you know, when you see some of those signals?
Sure, sure.
So communication is very important to us as a group, leadership group and in connecting
the different departments and and also data.
So Andrew, we try to track, you know, good data in, good data out kind of thing, right?
Everybody knows that I think it's a matter of practicing that it takes a lot of work and
conscious effort each day.
But we're able to monitor pretty good with our technology partners and the work we've put
into that to s to see if there's all of a sudden a gl a blip in in one pocket of the
country or one industry or potentially one
you know, relationship, if you will.
and we have daily monitoring by our collections staff staff that does a good job knowing
that hey, it's spiked for some reason.
It's not just because it's a a due date, you know, that just rolled or anything like that.
Um, they they monitor it and then we talk about it, you know, it goes to credit leadership
and and and sometimes I get involved or Joe gets involved and just kinda like, let's ask
more questions or let's, you know, talk about what potentially could be causing this.
Is it something we should be concerned about?
Do we need to change any of our underwriting standards, you know, for that for a certain
time?
You know, is there an economic reason too that we need to consider, you know, structuring
a term, getting a down payment?
You know, are there assets that are overvalued and that's why we need a down payment or
something like that?
So we communicate and talk about it.
And um those warning signs come in the form of a delinquency spike or some recent
conversations with the collection or customer service team where it's like, whoa, that's
that's something we should probably hang on to.
Let's see if there's more.
More to that.
So
For sure.
And you've grown through as you talk about your vendor and manufacturer relationships as
as well as referrals and even from some of your competitors.
What does that what does that say about your market positioning and and the brand?
Sure, sure.
No, yeah, we're very thankful we have a great sales team that puts on a tremendous front
and represents Oakmont ex tremendously.
Um and again they have those strong relationships and you know, it's not often that it
happens, but we do have stories where, you know, we might be with a vendor in their booth
or a manufacturer and they have said, you know, to a a competitor that walks by, ah their
competitor, not ours, of course, but um and just says, Hey, are you working with Oakmont?
If not, you should try you know.
Um, because, you know, the process is is smooth, you know, and they will get deals done.
They'll make it possible for you.
So we are thankful for that.
But it again goes to relationships that have had a lot of years in building sales team
that's done a great job building on that and valuing, you know, expanding those
relationships and finding ways to continue to help uh enhance those relationships.
So let's move into something that really stands out with Oakmont, which is your high tech,
high touch model and how that shows up in the customer experience.
So when you say high tech, high touch, what does that actually look like at the
transaction level for a customer?
Sure.
Um yeah, we're it's something we're we're we're proud of.
And we we want to make sure we always have a human available when when somebody wants it,
when we need it.
And and we try to check in with our customers and make sure that that's still the case.
I come from a background where that was always important.
You know, answering the phone on the first ring, first or second ring.
Um, you know, in in my own personal life too, I've if I'm calling to talk to a a a uh
somebody I might have a loan with or, you know, any kind of
financial institution or or any institution, I guess, and it's all the phone jungle and
pushing buttons and waiting and holding and I just, you know, he keeps saying,
Representative, representative.
You know what if I'm on hold of Delta or something like that.
And it doesn't always work so well, but you try to get to somebody at some point.
But then there's also times where I want just to be able to push buttons and get what I
need and get out of there.
So for us, we try to do that where you can do the application over the phone, through the
sales rep, via email, uh, or you know, through a portal.
Um so we have it through that.
The the whole underwriting process happens very uh seamlessly.
And then at the time of documentation, you know, yeah, we can walk you through the docs,
but otherwise it's gonna come to you to be a docusign.
Uh you're gonna use a remote online notary, you know, we're trying to remove that process
and make it just more convenient.
That's something that we started actually prior to COVID.
We're very happy about that.
It was something we had been working at 'cause it just seems inefficient.
But the whole notary process to me was always kind of a nuance.
It's like all those
stamps and you never know, you know, who stamped the I mean the notary sure stamped it,
but who actually signed it.
You know, there's no KBA questions, there's no s ID verification.
So we we found a solution and a partner that's worked really good to do that twenty four
hours a day, help our people that are driving truck until ten o'clock to do that after
their hours, get the notarization done, uh, and help us vet out a little more fraud as
well, um, in that process.
So people know that when they work with us, they can call us to ask questions, but
Also we're gonna try to make it as convenient as possible if they like it that way.
Um, but there's still some people that like those PDF docs or paper docs printed and and
sent back to us.
So we hate to say goodbye to those people either.
We really enjoy all of our customers, but try to accommodate them the best we can in in
two various versions.
So
Yeah, that I mean that's great.
You give you give options for for people that are more old school and they like they like
that human interaction.
And you mentioned earlier, you know, some people just want to get in and get out.
They don't wanna, you know, it interact with anybody, uh just do everything prompted over
the phone and um and and be on their way.
So you you have a philosophy of finding ways to get deals done.
How how do you build operations that support that mindset while still trying to manage
that four letter wrist word that that nobody likes to talk about?
I know, right?
It is.
It it it is tricky.
So, you know, we try to again it comes down to sometimes just being a live example where
we can do a little dissecting of it and try to figure out, you know, what we could do
differently or what we could could do better.
we can't catch all of it.
We try very hard.
but we we try to make sure that the process is as secure as possible, you know, have many
chances to to catch the fraud.
We train our employees.
um to look for things, keep their ears open too.
The sales team is trained to do that.
Um to make sure that we're not just kinda overlooking any fraud potential.
You know, that it doesn't seem right or sound right, it look right, you know, pause and
and let's ask questions.
We try not to shut down everything because of that.
We just let's focus on this deal.
It's like that's not necessarily contagious that all of a sudden everything is that way.
It's just this one.
Let's let's focus on that for right now.
Um but at the same time we want to keep speed is
how we win deals.
So we need to keep
If it talks like a duck and it walks like a duck, it's probably a duck, right?
So yeah.
So that's great that that's great that, you know, you've you have the the discipline and
and your team's looking for looking for those, you know, those those warning signs because
it's out there and it's you know, there's always you always have to worry about that.
Uh
and new and new ways all the time, right?
And AI is not making it any easier on us.
So find you gotta c combat AI with AI and and and tools and just c you know, just being
really relentless on um trying to trying to find it and flush out.
Um so we'll catch it all, but we we try to make sure we're not just putting a blind eye to
it for sure.
You know, like, no, gotta keep the steel funded.
Well, maybe we don't.
Maybe there's something else to it.
So
Yeah.
I mean you certainly don't want that running rapid through the portfolio.
That that spreads like wildfire for sure.
so how d how does operational execution translate into referral growth, especially when
even competitors are sending business your way?
yeah, you know, so I think really the reputation comes with, you know, the sales team and
uh we can use then, you know, an example from over for or somebody that we have that
relationship with when we go to present to a new a new vendor or a new manufacturer, you
know, to give them an idea.
And a of times, you know, this industry that we work in, while it's, you know, well over a
trillion dollars now, it's a you know, a very big one point three, I think.
Um it's gotten so big there it's still really small.
Right.
And so
that the people selling the equipment know each other are familiar and not afraid to you
know ask questions or they see us talking to each other at a trade show so that helps
build that relationship too but we say hey give this person a call and get a get a
reference on us if you need to.
But you know, just making sure that they understand that we do focus on what their needs
are and how we can improve those for them, take out some of the bottlenecks that they
might be seeing from another source.
Um, you know, how can we take away some of the pain points.
And and speed is definitely one of those, but also just having an open mind to credits
that come in um and being creative.
Thank you.
And and now looking forward, technology, we talked about AI a little bit, uh, obviously
reshaping the space.
So I'd like to spend a little time on how you're approaching that evolution.
How do you view AI in the context of your business, especially as it relates to augmenting
versus replacing the human decision making?
We're we're very excited about it.
I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunities that we we have in front of us to again
augment.
You know, that's the way I like to think of it.
We're not replacing anybody.
It's just giving people more meaningful tasks, decision making to to do and and take away
some of the ah smaller tasks that are repetitive and and not the fun part of the job.
You know, I think making decisions, you know, analyzing things, some of that's done with
AI, but um giving people
more power to do more of that during the day is more enjoyable for them.
Uh and for us faster and more efficient.
And we're able to continue to scale with adding without adding, you know, multiple bodies.
You know, what can we do to continue to do the do more with the same number of people or a
similar number of people and in scale.
So our our metrics are a little bit better.
So uh we we're very excited about it using it in several operational areas and a little
bit on the sales side too.
and and I feel like we've still only just begun.
While we've got some stuff in place, there's a lot more that we can do and we're we're
talking about doing.
it's just a matter of putting it in place and and making sure we we test it and do what we
want for you know, verification and validation.
Um, and making sure that we're not just using it because we think it's easier, that it
actually is gonna make life easier in the long run.
It doesn't create any new up new work, excuse me.
Um, but so far it's been been very exciting and good for us.
So you mentioned uh, you know, AI with sales.
What what other initiatives have you implemented so far?
AI initiatives have you implemented so far and what have you learned through that through
that process?
Sure.
Uh we started really in the credit area.
We started doing some work there.
Um, you know, and it came from being involved in the industry.
We had somebody go out to uh a conference and and pick up some ideas.
We had been doing our own research internally and kind of combined that information
together and started saying, Is there a way we can expedite what we do from the due
diligence side of things?
We don't wanna get to a point yet where we're or at all where we're removing the decision
making.
Um, we we wanna keep that where it is, but teeing it up to that decision and the
recommendation, what can we do there to make that an easier process?
And it took, you know, a couple of people on the credit team, you know, several months of
testing and reworking versions of prompts and um and they got it to a point where it was
very helpful for us, extremely helpful achieved many minutes off of applications.
Um and we're thankful for that.
And then we ran them concurrently, you know, the manual process plus the AI process and
Are we finding we're getting the same things?
Is there any hallucinations that are happening?
Self that we might be missing.
Um and it's been very good and it continues to get smarter as as you know.
And I think giving us sometimes better summaries of of what a paint looks like, for
example, um, than what we would have done on our own.
And and then of course fast faster.
So that's kind of the pilot area for us.
and then we're working on stuff in a couple of other areas as well.
Great.
And as you look towards the fiscal year twenty twenty seven, what are the biggest
opportunities you're preparing for across new collateral manufacturer relationships and
and funding strategy if if you can share?
Sure.
Um, you know, always looking to to grow organically with our current customer base.
That's definitely an area for us.
I think everybody would agree with that.
You know, there's always gold in the files, right?
That that you have in front of you the easier acquisition costs.
So we want to continue to do that.
Um, and while we enjoy very much the industries that we're in and we're very diverse
within them, we're not opposed to expanding outside of that and trying some other areas
that we can learn a lot about.
And that doesn't
Those that don't take too much to tool up for.
You know, we're not not gonna be built yet for a uh, you know, as a service type provider
or something that's more per click.
Um, that's not our model.
You know, we're pretty s pretty plain vanilla shop at this point.
So that would take a little bit more work.
So, you know, we have some feelers out there for sure, business development efforts going
on that we're gonna try to, you know, expand in.
And we like we definitely like collateral of some sort.
So something that's behind it, you know, we haven't ventured into the software or
you know, the um technology space very much at all.
Um so it'll be definitely stuff that's still still got some iron behind it or you know, um
some heft if you will or weight that we can pick up and stuff if we need to.
But um, you know, I just tried to to do more of that and be continue continue to enhance
the customer experience throughout it.
So Darren, from your vantage point with the with the LFA and NIFA, where do you see
independent lessors heading over the next three to five years?
You know, I I see that it's there's definitely some opportunities for growth.
I mean, the banks are are very strong in growing back into the business a little bit.
It seems like they've gone back and forth.
The third party uh originators are are still there.
Um, captives of course are gonna remain strong, I think, as long as they have the capital
to keep doing that or they may consider, you know, outsourcing some of that or offloading
some of it.
Um, you know, so I think independence just continue to be opportunities that, you know,
maybe the banks aren't
pursuing or don't want to or aren't nimble enough to take advantage of that independent
can.
there's seems to be a pretty strong amount of capital available.
The capital markets are moving pretty good, um, not just from a warehouse side of things,
but the ABS markets are pretty strong uh in other syndication type models that allow
people to continue to grow but not carry all the risk in you know, to diverse keep their
portfolios diversified, and and, you know, allow their capital to
go further too, right?
By by syndicating something.
So most of them are not holding everything.
I don't think, you know, that's probably more common on the bank side of things.
and and they are definitely doing their own syndications as well too in the first pride.
But I I think we continue to see opportunities where independence will be able to move at
a pace that as long as they continue to keep up with technology, um, there's gonna remain
opportunities there for a long time.
Do you
Do you f do you see, you know, 'cause there's been a a a huge increase of the number of
independents over the last, you know, five to ten years.
Uh do you see more uh newer companies entering the space over the over the next, you know,
three to five years as well?
I think so.
I think as we grow, I think there's you know, there's and A activity that happens and
sometimes when that happens too, there's a group of people, right, that leave and g go
start a new veteran, right?
We see that happening all the time where there's a team that's lifted out uh or somebody's
starting a new a new operation.
we've just seen some of those s recently, uh with Tom Depping's new group and a couple of
others that are uh creating, you know, blast from the past, if you will, getting
gang back together, the band back together.
Um, I think there'll be some of that for sure that'll continue to happen.
So and I think some that have specialties in a certain niche, that say, you know, I've got
to blend it in now as part of this bank or this organization.
I want, you know, to be f you know, first in line for the money.
Let's go start our own or let's get somebody that'll fund us and specialize in whatever
that industry or collateral is that they they know so well.
so I think there'll be be some of that
That I I don't see that really changed.
I think there's people are entrepreneurs entrepreneurs and opportunistic and saying that
if I can do it better, I'm gonna try it.
And if somebody's there to feed them the capital, you might as well, right?
So
before uh before we close, is there anything um that you'd like to you'd like to share
with our audience that maybe we didn't cover on this on this uh on this episode?
You know, I think it's been very good.
It's been a good conversation, Jan Andrew.
I've enjoyed it uh immensely.
So um no, I don't think so.
I think we had a good conversation.
Appreciate the the chance to be on here with ya.
And uh yeah, I look forward to seeing you again in person.
It's been a it's been a few months since we got together at a conference probably.
So um at the end of
Yeah, we saw each other in in California.
Um I that it's been an awesome conversation and I I really uh and it's been really
insightful.
look how you built Oakmont.
I follow you guys on LinkedIn.
I I I love your love your post.
You got a great marketing team, great risk team.
I mean you guys you guys are are active in in the industry involved um through various
charities.
Um and you know I
Think about how you guys are, you know, looking ahead.
Um, you know, there's a lot here that I think leaders across from our industry can take
away and and that they can they can apply and it and and learn from what you guys have
been doing.
Before we wrap up, I I'd like to bring a quick debate that uh Ever Rubin and I were
talking about recently on a previous episode.
And it feels especially relevant given that you're from Minnesota.
so we were debating which is better in Minnesota.
Is it ice fishing in the winter?
Or boating on a lake in the summer.
I feel you're uniquely qualified to weigh on this one.
So I have to ask, where do you land and why?
that's true.
Yes, 'cause you're right, 'cause it many years ago started the the Nefa ice fishing event
that's in in February every year.
So uh definitely enjoy the winters and the time on the ice and you get out there and you
shut the door on your ice house, ice castle as a lot of people have around here.
You just kind of you get away and you enjoy it for sure.
There's something very peaceful about that, um, for sure.
But our summers are short, but the days are amazing.
So I love to be the water.
Not even
Even if not fishing, just cruising around on the pontoon or boat, uh, you know, getting
some sun and being outside.
So I you know, it's hard to beat hard to beat the summers, I I think Andrew, but it's uh
the winter's well, we gotta do something, right, to get through And so finding a way to
make it you know, make some fun memories on the ice.
Ice fishing is a great way to do that and other things as well.
But uh yeah, it's I'd say summer winds out, but ice fishing I don't I don't mind either.
So
Yeah.
I was gonna say if I if I had to guess what your answer was, I'd just look over your your
left shoulder and see that I I don't see an ice I don't see an ice hut or a uh ice castle
on a on a frozen pond.
I see a I see the front of a boat in crystal clear water.
So Yeah.
I think I would have I think I think I would have put money on that.
But i in case you're wondering, Deborah did say that ice fishing is fun, especially if
you're a chill baby as she she called it, um, and have the right equipment.
Uh that but her preference was that she'd much rather be uh on the lake in July with with
the warm weather.
Um so
But I really appreciate the time and the insights today.
This has been an awesome conversation.
Thank you again.
And to everybody listening, I appreciate you joining us on the ACS portfolio perspective.
We really appreciate you spending part of your day with us.
Our goal is to bring practical insights, real world perspectives and conversations you can
take back to your organization and apply right away.
If you found this episode valuable, be sure to share it with a colleague and keep an eye
out for future episodes where we will continue to bring on leaders from across the
industry.
Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.