Ep 004: Generational Trauma and How to ACTUALLY Heal It With Relational Parenting

Jennie and Rick discuss parent-child relationships alongside parent-grandparent relationships and beyond, focusing on the importance of healing your own wounds to make space for the changes and new habits you want to bring into your family system.

Show Notes

 Hello and Welcome back to episode 004 of the Relational Parenting Podcast!  I’m Jennifer Hayes and this week I wanted to take a step back and address a concept that has come to the forefront of our collective consciousness in recent years: Generational Trauma, OR Generational Cycles.  The awareness and understanding of the patterns of behavior, thinking and potentially abuse that get passed down through familial lines is wonderful and I’m so excited that more and more people are becoming aware of it and making changes. But I’ve also noticed that the emphasis is on changing the future and very little acknowledgment of healing the past.  So I wanted to dive into that with you and really explore what it takes to ACTUALLY work with the generational cycles in your own life in order to be the parent you want to be for your children.  This subject is not an easy one to traverse and naturally forced my dad and I to have some very honest, hard and awkward conversations. We dove into things neither of us had ever discussed before and triggered some very deep, old wounds.  And the results of those conversations are here in this episode. I can’t wait to hear what you think, what you learned and if you have more questions on this topic, please comment or message me!.

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Creators & Guests

Host

Jennifer Hayes

Host

Rick Hayes

Editor

Natalie Long

What is The Relational Parenting Podcast?

Welcome to the Relational Parenting Podcast! I’m Jennifer Hayes – a Parent Coach and 20 year Childcare Veteran. Each week I sit down with my own father (and cohost), Rick Hayes, and discuss the complicated issues that parents face today, as well as some of the oldest questions in the book. From the latest research and the framework of my Relational Parenting Method, we offer thought-provoking solutions to your deepest parenting struggles.
Relational Parenting is an evidence and experience based parenting method created by me - Jennie. After 20 years in the child care world, in every scenario you could possibly imagine, I realized one thing: EVERYONE was prioritizing the behavior and performance of a child over their emotional well-being. This frustrated me to no end and when I re-visited the latest research, I realized there was a better way. I started applying the principles I'd been learning in my own self-work, parent-child relationships, and partnerships, and I started gobbling up all the new research and books I could get my hands on. When I saw the results of putting these practices into play with the children I was taking care of - the difference in myself AND the kids I worked with was ASTOUNDING.
I am SO PROUD to be presenting Relational Parenting to the world. I can't wait to hear about your own journey. From Parents-to-be to the seasoned parenting veteran - there's something here for everyone!

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yeah you can't just cut off whatever's in the past
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pretend it's not there turn a blind eye and just push forward
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like you're going to carry whatever's back there is coming with you whether you choose to see it or not whether you
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are aware of it or not what you have experienced in the first 20 or 30 or 40
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Years of your life before you come become a parent follows you unless you turn around and
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face it and figure it out welcome to the relational parenting podcast I'm Jennifer Hayes a parent coach and
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20-year Child Care veteran each week I sit down with my own father Rick Hayes
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and discuss the complicated issues that parents face today as well as some of the oldest questions in the book from
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the latest research and the framework of my relational parenting method we offer thought-provoking solutions to your
0:56
deepest parenting struggles or in other words how to parent your kids without losing your mind or traumatizing theirs
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added bonuses include intergenerational wounding discussions and guest Child
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Care Experts you will also start taking your parenting questions in episode 5 so
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be sure to comment with your biggest questions or email me directly at Jenny
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jennyb dot Co let's get started hello and welcome back to episode four
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of the relational parenting podcast I'm Jennifer Hayes and this week I wanted to
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take a step back and address a concept that has come to the Forefront of our
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Collective Consciousness in recent years generational trauma or generational
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Cycles the awareness and understanding of the existence of these patterns of
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behavior thinking and potentially abuse they get passed down through our familial lines is wonderful and I'm so
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excited that more and more people are becoming aware of it and making changes but I've also noticed that there is all
2:04
this emphasis on changing the future and very little acknowledgment of healing
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the past so I wanted to dive into that with you and really explore what it takes to
2:16
actually work with the generational Cycles in your own life in order to be the parent you want to be for your
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children this subject is not an easy one to Traverse and it naturally forced my dad
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and I to have some very honest hard and awkward conversations we dove into
2:34
things that neither of us has ever discussed before and triggered some very deep Old Wounds
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the results of those conversations are here in this episode I can't wait to
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hear what you think what you learned and if you have more questions on this topic please comment or message me
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we've been talking in the last couple of episodes about how to parent differently
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we've been discussing relational parenting My Method and a
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couple of the tools and pillars of of my relational parenting
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method so we've talked about how to connect with your children how to lead with empathy and different tools for
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correction or finding cooperation instead of Shame using shame guilt and
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Punishment and this week I wanted to kind of pause
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on teaching more ways to shift your
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parenting and I wanted to take a step back and address something called generational trauma
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uh this is a big buzzword right now it seems to be everywhere in social media
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Etc therapy circles and has been for a
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couple of years now it plays generational trauma generational Cycles play a huge role in our ability or
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inability to make changes as a parent changes from how your parents parented
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changes from your own stuff
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your own way of showing up that you don't like as a parent and
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generational trauma is so influential on how you show up in your current everyday
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life whether you recognize it or not and it's going to be so much harder to put
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any new parenting practices into place without first having addressed your own
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wounds from your childhood and the reason that it will be harder
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is because you and your body are going to carry those wounds and you're going
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to carry that those emotions the the tension the difficulty that you
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experienced or the you know the automatic knee-jerk reaction that your
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parents did to you you're going to carry that into your parenting relationship as well and especially on your bad days or
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if you're tired or worn extra worn out or whatever it might be you those are
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that's when all that tension and suppressed emotion is going to come out it's going to explode and your kids are
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going to to feel that they're going to walk on eggshells or
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you know obviously like run away from you if you explode or not even it
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doesn't even need to be an explosion it doesn't need to be this like big obvious thing it could be passive aggressive
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comments made from an intention of Goodwill or even teaching
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uh you know there's these these suppressed emotions
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unexpressed unhealed wounds um or just patterns of behavior that
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we've picked up from from our parents they come out in small ways that we
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don't even recognize sometimes conscious sometimes yeah yeah and and
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not on purpose like you know I don't I don't think anyone I know is hurting their child on purpose now there are
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those people um but we're not talking about the extremes we're not talking about we're
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talking about the general population middle of the spectrum parenting
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um people who are trying to do the the best they can um inadvertent harm not not nobody
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intentionally doing anybody else any harm yeah but these the generational
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cycles that run in your family affect you whether you're aware of it or not and so becoming aware of them addressing
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any childhood wounds that you have and not just ignoring them or being like gosh it was fine I'm fine
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um because those things are going and are going to live inside of you and then they're going to come out
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and in your parenting towards your child and then your child is going to have to carry those things and
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who knows how long it will take for someone to wake up and become aware of
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the cycle and break it so let's do it now
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and that's really the meaning that's the meaning of generational trauma or or you
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know why are we trying to be better at parenting you know you have to you have to spot your stuff and deal with your
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stuff and uh even if it's not perfect if you feel a little better than your
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parents were or do it a little different or gentler or uh whatever the word is
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you can improve you know from generation to generation it doesn't have to be perfect but you gotta Somebody's gotta
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spot it and it might as well start with us this right this generation of parents
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well and and so the first thing I want to talk about is that simply doing
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things differently moving forward is not the only step in healing
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generational trauma so first you have to or simultaneously
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um you have to face your own wounds or
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anger from childhood if you have any grief or feelings of Injustice
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or betrayal or lack of safety towards your own parents
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even just things that you you know use can still look back as an adult or as an
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adult with children and go that was not okay that that was done to me I didn't
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deserve to be treated like that um looking back at those things and not
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brushing them aside not just saying well everybody up nobody's perfect
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um you'll we'll get there right you'll get to the acceptance part but before you can get to acceptance true
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acceptance you have to first feel those feelings you have to acknowledge that it happened
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and that you did not deserve it and you have to and grieve you have to
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grieve that that happened to you and that you did not deserve it come to
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terms with it and that's always fun coming to terms with feelings like that you know it's not comfortable grief is
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everyone's favorite yeah and uh you know you have to to for me maybe
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it's because I'm a guy or something uh I don't usually think of it as oh my
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parents did something to me here it's not subconscious for me it's like why am I upset you know this this thing my kid
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did or something whatever happened whatever circumstance I'm in I'm have
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I'm having an irrational uh subconscious or what a
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kind of reaction to it and it's sometimes you gotta go off and go why does that situation make me so
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uncomfortable yeah and and dig into it a little it requires a little digging
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because there's you know there's no manual for this you have to figure it out and so
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your own stuff is what's going to make space
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for you to make the changes and be the person who can
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bring in these new practices and be able to
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be accountable and and fully stand in your own power and your own capability
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to do things differently and to make the harder Choice when it comes to
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difficult moments with your children if whether it's their big emotions
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um or whatever it might be it's usually their big emotions is what's happening almost everything can be boiled down to
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that or an unmet need everything is either a big emotion or an unmet need of
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a child and neither of those things is that child's fault they are allowed to
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have big emotions if we all do and they have needs and they don't have you know
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small children don't have the ability to express those needs and if they were never taught then big children don't
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have the ability to express those needs either because they are not in tune with themselves so they don't deserve anything other than
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love and kindness as well um so it leaves in a stream they're just
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being carried on you know yeah until they learn how to deal with stuff
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well until they have the power and and ability to do it I mean we don't we
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don't let kids determine their course until they're of a certain age and the
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earlier that we can give them choices and freedom and the ability to problem
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solve and choose and mess up and get up and do it again and make another choice and like they won't develop
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good judgment if they aren't given the chance to develop it and practice so
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um anyway so we are feeling we're acknowledging our own hurt we're looking
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into the past looking at our relationship with our parents looking at the places we felt Injustice
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um and we're we're going to feel those feelings and we're going to grieve it and that's going to be a process it's
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not just going to happen once and you're going to be like all right cool and once
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you have grieved and felt all those feelings the next step is that you can
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start to choose forgiveness or at least understanding so forgiveness
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I think most people know by now is not for the other person forgiveness is for
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yourself and I say forgiveness or understanding
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because not everything and not everyone is ready
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or capable of forgiving or letting go and that's okay uh what I would urge
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people to strive for is to understand
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where your parent was coming from when that happened and not understand as
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in justify but understand as in oh a leads to B
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leads to C I see the chain of events that occurred to to bring that to fruition
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and whether that happens through a conversation with your parent whether that happens through you being an adult
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who can now look back at the past and see things more clearly and know where your parent was coming from what your
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parent had going on what your parent the knowledge that your parent did not have
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access to right because we're in an age now where we have the internet and we
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can learn all of these things and we can you know reach out and find support
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um in so many different ways and you know even 20 years ago that wasn't the case
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so much Google wasn't quite as as at your fingertips
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so there are millions of situations and millions of different pieces to
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everyone's puzzle but these are just kind of the first steps
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that I would give someone who is
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seeking to parent differently I would encourage you that Step Zero
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is you've got to face your own stuff first
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or at least simultaneously yeah and I agree there are more tools
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now you know you have to be mindful or intentional whatever to you
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want to call it to you know you have to be aware of your stuff you have to work on self-awareness I guess
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um to do this and then there are so many more resources the internet has has
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grown and gotten better and more effective at connectedness actual
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finding a group of people to chat with verbally or with a keyboard
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um you know there's all kinds of resources out there if you can if you have time to do that
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um petite makes it easier than it was years you know 20 years ago yeah and
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there's also like all this research the latest research
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a lot of these Studies have been being done for 10 20 or 30 years the things that the information that is
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available right now you know the study started a few years after I was born
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um so there's simply information that did not exist yet
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let alone was available to the masses
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that was one of the first purposes of the internet was sharing research and that kind of thing so that the internet
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really sped up the pace of all that you didn't have to get published in nature and peer reviewed and you know the
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velocity with which new studies could be looked at and have the next guy go oh
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here's the next question and start a study on that seem to pick up a little bit well and
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for the average American family to be
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buying published peer-reviewed medical journals like that
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nobody does that Nature's Exchange in fact if you hadn't gone to University
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and also studied in The Sciences to know
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that peer-reviewed articles are a thing that exists yeah how would you ever have
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access to that information other than big entities
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run by the government telling you what to do people working on this stuff and
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there's so much bad information out there too sometimes yeah well from from getting diluted
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from some of those entities that's not picking picking a good uh picking a good source that's a whole critical thinking
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that's a whole nother podcast I think so yes sourcing your information so
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I want to share a story um about
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some generational repair that has occurred
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um through the women in my family and how
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you know how that kind of brought me to where where I'm at today
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um yeah so I'm just gonna Dive Right into that so I so I was 26.
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and was talking to my grandma
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on the phone and she was telling me a story
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or the story of her a trip that she took where she had an experience of healing
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with her own mother who had actually passed on already
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um so she told me all the details of this story and meanwhile I was I was 26
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and I had just started kind of dabbling in the
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notion of generational trauma and generational healing and how things can
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be passed down through families and specifically in our family through the
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the female the women lineage of mothers to daughters and so when she was telling
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me this story I was kind of blown away because she had she had no idea that I
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had started exploring this topic and um was kind of digging into these things
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and just before that phone call like a month or two before that phone call I
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had actually written a letter an apology letter to my mom
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uh basically apologizing for what a jerk I was as a teenager
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to her and kind of into my 20s as well I had been harboring a lot of blame and
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anger towards her and
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for really no reason and I well for many reasons but none
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that were fair I will put it that way excellent
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distinction good distinction I had many reasons none of which were fair to her
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um and so I had written her this apology
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letter as I had had my own experience uh that made me see the past a little
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bit clearer and see where she was coming from with some of the choices that she made and
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so that I was on the phone with my grandma hearing this this story about her healing with her mom and I
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you know something clicked for me that day about the
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the healing that I felt was being sent backwards ancestrally and forwards
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um down to my me being the most recent generation living
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and and it was this crazy this vision of
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of a cord connecting from myself to my great grandmother so from me to Mom and
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from Mom to grandma and from Grandma to Great Grandma um and this this kind of like golden
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light just kind of being shot from from way back ancestrally down the line to me
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and how that had connected all of us and how when one of us chooses to heal
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um the other one's benefit and so fast forward a couple years as 28 or 29
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and I you know my mom had been coming to visit me in Colorado once or twice a
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year uh staying for a few days at a time and our
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pattern for those visits would be we would be so excited to see each other and so happy to hang out for a few days
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and about two days in to that we would start bickering or snapping at each
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other or whatever and I'm sure that this is not an uncommon experience for anyone
23:33
and their parents especially mothers and daughters who are kind of famous for it but yeah right
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well in in so I was dating someone at the time and he had been hanging out
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with us for that few days and my mom left and he kind of he kind
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of looked at me and he he's like why do you talk to your mom like I was
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like was that I was like I don't know I was like I don't know why I do that every time she leaves I just I feel
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terrible and then like but when she's here I'm so I get so annoyed at her and but then she leaves and I'm like why did
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I talk to her like that and so it started a conversation with him
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and started a conversation inside of myself and we explored that a little bit
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and I realized that I was reverting to 16 year old
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Jenny when my mom came into town and 16 17 year old Jenny was the last time that
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I had lived full time you know daily interactions with my mom
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and there's a phenomenon and it applies
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especially between parents and their children but in almost any group
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anywhere um that you kind of you kind of revert to
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who you were when you met or established this group
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of people that you hang out with so whether that's your family or your college friends or whatever it might be
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you you know we are all multifaceted people
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we don't just have one thing that defines us and that's who we are we have many
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pieces to our personalities and so um you know I I realized that oh when I
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get on the phone or go home and visit my college friends like I kind of become College Jenny again and I realized that
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that's what was happening with my mom I was becoming 16 year old Jenny with my mom
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and even though I was in my late 20s and I had
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so much more clarity and and realizations and all of these things I
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had actually really only been in regular contact with my mom
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for the last three years other than when I was a teenager and so
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we were re-establishing our relationship we were you know healing and growing and re-establishing
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our relationship and I realized what was happening and and
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began to take responsibility for showing up in that relationship with
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my mom differently and showing up as the adult that I was
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walking around being the rest of the time you know I would go be a
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professional at my job and I would be a good friend and
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I would be understanding of my friends and who they are and there be accepting
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of their flaws or what I if I perceived them to be flaws or whatever it was
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just the way I would want to be treated and otherwise an adult yeah and I was like oh okay so I need to
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like stop seeing my mom as my mom just like this punching bag that I can be an
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to and he'll love me anyway and I need to start treating her like a
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person that I care about because I do you know I'm not perfect and my mom and I still bicker sometimes but I don't I
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don't react or make shitty comments
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or I don't know just say like unnecessary things to her out of
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out of childish annoyance and I started to look at who my mom was
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and put the pieces of her life together and understand her as a human being and
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not just as my mom who I expect to be whatever I need her to be at
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whatever moment I want her to be that thing adult to adult not not parent child yeah
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and but I had to in order to to do that I there had to there were several years of
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work that led up to me being able to being capable of realizing that and there were
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several years of healing and looking at my childhood and putting
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the pieces of her life together to understand her better you know grieving and then accepting and understanding
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and once I could see her as a whole person not just as my mom
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I was able to let go of a lot of those things
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or talk to her about some of those things like move on with my life and and
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and not just like not just like carry those things buried inside of me that would come out at a moment's notice
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yeah well and it wasn't like it's important to know that for anyone listening that it wasn't just like one
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Fell Swoop and all of a sudden I was an angel to my mom like it took more visits
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and more self-awareness and more and apologies and conversations like it also
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allowed me to to be able to talk to her about things I had never about topics I had never
29:32
approached before because I was stuck in this child parent Dynamic and but once I
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stepped into an adult adult Dynamic I was able to be like hey you know
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I'm going to set this boundary with you or hey when you did this when I was a kid that hurt or you know we were able
29:53
to have some of these conversations and then there
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were also things that I didn't necessarily feel like I needed to approach with her because I could see
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who she was and what was happening back then and I could go oh okay I get why
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that happened or I get how that happened or and I was able to just do it on my own I
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was able to just see it for myself and let it you know either experience the
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emotion or grieve what happened or whatever it was and just let it go
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um maybe with the adult adult perspective you perspective you could
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you could see it you didn't have to have everything explained to you like a child right and and that comes with life
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experience too and so so the the point of telling this story is you know
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just to give an example of how one complicated and messy because that
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whole story spanned from like age 25 to now really it's still happening like my
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mother and I still discuss life and
31:05
and whatnot and our relationship continues to grow and get better but
31:11
um there was you know about five or six years there where we were
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kind of traversing a new version of our relationship as
31:25
mother and daughter and so it's not when I talk about generational healing and I
31:31
talk about um looking into your childhood or your
31:37
feelings towards your parents and there might be feelings towards your parents from when you were a kid and there might
31:43
be feelings that you've had as an adult towards your parent now and it may even
31:48
be like as Grandparents you've struggled with your parents or
31:55
explaining to your parents how you want them to treat your children you know because that's something I hear
32:02
a lot about is you know I've told my a parent will come to me and say I've
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had this conversation with my parent 800 times and every time they come to visit and see the grandbabies she still says
32:15
these things or she still does these things or Grandpa still you know won't
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you know tells my three-year-old to stop crying when he gets hurt and it's like
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and it's you know different generation yeah and and so there's also a level of
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parents adult you know parents of adult children have a responsibility to respect their
32:43
adult children as adults and not as their children to not not the way I
32:48
would do it but it's their kid just now right sure and and trusting that your child
32:56
will do what's best and that there is new knowledge that you are not aware of and
33:05
you know just because it's not how you did it is also not the other thing I've seen is
33:12
grandparents taking it personally when their kid doesn't
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want to do things the way they did things and I'm sorry that it's been like that for
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centuries well the kids have always wanted to do something different than their the way their parents did it
33:31
that's just another iteration of what you're talking about though is is that's
33:37
the other side of the coin it sounds like of a grandparent looking at a kid as a kid not as an adult
33:44
and if they're not having a meeting of minds and a sharing of opinions and
33:50
here's here boundaries here's my here's the way I'm going to raise my kid it's not the way you did it
33:56
but here's what I expect of you and yeah yeah it's all the it's all the same
34:02
thing just from different perspectives interesting right and there so there's this there's this this visual that I get
34:10
when I talk about this subject is there's in order to pass forward
34:17
what we want to pass on to our children and parent differently and make change
34:24
and and evolve there's in order to reach forward we
34:30
must also we must reach back you can't just cut off
34:36
whatever's in the past pretend it's not there turn a blind eye and just push forward
34:44
like you're going to carry whatever's back there is coming with you whether you choose to see it or not whether you
34:52
are aware of it or not what you have experienced in the first 20 or 30 or 40
34:57
Years of your life before you become a parent follows you unless you turn around and
35:03
face it and figure it out yeah and if you have your parents around and they
35:10
are grandparents to your your children and you have a diet you know you have this three generation Dynamic occurring
35:19
for visits or in your household or whatever it might be like that Dynamic is going to play out
35:25
all of the time and until you address those things it's going to affect your
35:31
children no matter what kind of change you try to make
35:36
um yeah that's an interesting thought I mean the the the the
35:42
community parents communicating to grandparents maybe why they're doing not
35:48
that that's required but to get grandparents on board the grandparents
35:53
have to be ready to receive and the parents need to communicate why this is different
36:00
um and grandparents especially it makes me think of a I think it's a Japanese concept new mind beginner's mind
36:07
where you can't go into it you can't think you know it all shoshin
36:14
I think so it's s-h-o -s-h-i-n
36:19
someone correct me if that's wrong or I'll Google it later and correct it in the show notes but it's show Shin is
36:24
beginner's mind learner's mind but that's the you know that's the idea of you the old dogs new tricks that kind of
36:32
thing grandparents can't go in thinking they have all the answers uh and even if they do the kids might want to do it
36:39
different and so then there's communication must ensue to uh uh
36:45
[Music] come to agreement on a change and push
36:51
comes to shove grandparents need to back off it's your kid's kids it's reminding me
36:56
of something we talked about in one of the earlier episodes of this leveling the playing field so there's this
37:03
hierarchy of parent to child that is very very common and
37:11
I talked about leveling the playing field as a parent so that you can be the adult
37:19
and you know what's safe and you you know there there are some hard
37:26
boundaries but in general leveling the playing field letting your child have an
37:31
opinion have a choice be involved in problem solving and not minimizing their
37:38
emotions right it's so important that we empathize and we validate their emotions and their experience even though they're
37:44
tiny and you know that everything's going to be okay they don't and so you
37:49
just telling them it's going to be okay is like oh well I'm must be crazy for feeling this way right meeting them
37:55
where they're at yeah yeah meeting our job as parents is to meet our children where they're at and care for them there
38:02
and not to stand up here and look down at them and be like no it's this way no it's this way of course this way and so
38:10
if we level the playing field between parent and you know underage child
38:16
the same concept applies to grandparent adult child
38:22
right so grandparent can't be up here parent
38:28
with child you can't have grandparent going no this is how I parented so this is how you should parent and this is how
38:34
it was when I was parent taken so this is how you should do it and if you don't then that's I'm offended because
38:40
uh you're telling me I didn't do it right and I said no that's not what we're saying you had the information
38:46
that you had when you were parenting yeah thank you and I love you
38:51
I've learned this thing called relational parenting you gotta learn about it
38:56
my dad forever forever uh marketing for me
39:03
well it's just I mean that's what we're doing and yeah I mean the parent-child thing you see that everywhere in nature
39:09
it's not just human beings and uh but it it doesn't really go above that I mean
39:15
there's a parent-child thing with parents in their and their parents you know the grandparents but grandparents
39:22
are removed from the child per se you know there's they don't get to they don't get
39:29
to mess with the parent child stuff too much well no but it's I think it's really important for grandparents to
39:37
not see themselves as older and wiser than parent than their adult child who
39:44
is now a parent I think it's really important that grandparents
39:50
Trust and believe that their child who is now
39:56
an adult having children knows what's best for them for those children with the new
40:03
information available and also refrain from
40:10
taking it personally because it's not about you your kid grew up witnessing
40:16
you as a parent and there are some things they're going to disagree with you about and everyone is human and
40:22
makes mistakes and there's no reason for you to fall into a pit of Shame for that and I know we did an episode on shame
40:28
we're gonna do another one by the way because I have a lot more to say but shame is so deeply rooted
40:35
in who we are and how we handle ourselves and our emotions and how we reflect on the world that this is this
40:42
is what's at play when someone when anyone takes anything personally it is rooted in shame oh well you must you
40:50
must be saying that I did something wrong or bad and because if you're not
40:55
going to do it the way I did it then then you're saying that I was wrong or bad and that's just not true there's new
41:03
information when we know better we do better Maya Angelou I know Maya Angelou sorry I've learned since that many years
41:11
ago that that I was pronouncing her name wrong um I was thinking of The Four Agreements
41:17
by Carlo something or other but a similar kind of thing yeah it is you know better you do better yeah you gotta
41:24
trust the kids you wanna I wanted to say we want to raise kids that you trust you
41:30
know when you're raising your kids you want to make sure you're raising kids that you trust with this job not yeah
41:36
you can do it for them forever right yes so you so the same trust and and
41:43
um freedom and trial and error that we are giving from parent to child you know
41:51
our grandparent to adult parent or to adult child needs to be happening as well and if it happened earlier then it
41:58
would naturally happen when you're a grandparent you wouldn't be micromanaging your child who is now
42:03
having children of their own and I remember the story The quick snippet I wanted to to tell you I think I was
42:10
think I was in college like late College
42:15
is either late college or very shortly after college I we had had a phone call
42:22
and you said something to me and you know I was updating you on my
42:27
life and all the mistakes I was making and you weren't
42:34
telling me what to do about it you like you were not correcting me you were not
42:40
giving me a solution about it wow that doesn't sound like me it was me this is
42:46
going to lead us into our final our final story about you that wasn't me yeah well so okay that's why it was so
42:54
memorable core memory right because my dad wasn't like giving me the solution
42:59
or telling me what I should or shouldn't do and I was like 22 23 ish and
43:06
um you said that at this point in my in parenting
43:14
it was your job to you had taught me what you could
43:20
teach me and it was NE it was now your job to sit
43:27
back and watch oh my and I must have been on drugs was I I
43:33
don't get high but you said it much more elegantly than that and and much less of
43:38
like like much less much less detached than that but I think I I was telling
43:44
you all these telling you this or telling you a certain situation and and you were just kind of like being
43:50
supportive and whatever and I was you know I was made a joke about oh you're
43:56
not you're not giving me the answers you're not telling me what I should do and you said and you said something to the
44:02
effect of you know I've realized that you're an adult and you are
44:08
capable and smart and my job at this point is to be here when you need me and
44:15
otherwise I'm I sit back and watch and just watch you become who you're gonna be and I remember oh God I was so sassy
44:24
back then because I would never say this now I remember telling you to grab a bowl of popcorn
44:31
you know that sounds familiar I think I might remember a scrap of this I think I
44:37
even posted it on Facebook or something some version of that quote popcorn hits
44:42
a bell because like well then I said strapping and grab a bowl of popcorn dad
44:48
he's coming back there it was a very dramatic point in my life yeah where I
44:55
was kind of like really experiencing the pitfalls of adulthood and the
45:00
choices that I make yeah and I've been out and it's beyond my it was probably
45:06
beyond my power to really fix it was like you know well if you
45:12
and you you know do you need me to send in the SWAT team or something I don't
45:17
know what it was but uh that's good and I've been so proud of you guys you and
45:23
you and your brothers too when you get to those points where it's we talk about things but it's like you know and you
45:30
know a minute ago you were talking about you know stuff's all learned parent child parent grandparent uh it's all
45:39
learned it's all figured out it's not learned it's figured out uh the hard way
45:44
and uh you know that's and that's good that everybody you never stop figuring things
45:50
out um I'm very proud of you guys because you all you all
45:56
matured and are good at figuring things out I trust you guys
46:02
I'd forgotten about that well so I want to you know part of this
46:09
doing this podcast with you is us being able to
46:17
you and I have these conversations um about
46:25
you know intergenerational like I'm the child you're the parent Etc but also exploring then even further
46:33
back so your parents you know how are you affected by how you were parented
46:40
um and so you were telling me in when we were discussing this episode and this
46:45
topic that you felt that you were not that you weren't
46:53
parented very much that you kind of parented yourself growing up you were
46:59
the fifth of five children and that you
47:05
remember you know by the fifth child your parents were just kind of like all right well
47:11
there's another one it's not gonna kill him no but none of the other Fork died when they went down
47:17
to the river he can go down to the river and so that led to you when you
47:24
um entered Parenthood you were very like gung-ho I'm gonna teach my kids
47:30
everything and I'm gonna you know you were very intentional about like I'm gonna tell them all about the world and teach
47:36
them everything and um and and you had that wonderful intention
47:43
of like I'm not gonna I'm gonna do it differently than my parents were because I feel like I grew up kind of without
47:48
Parents Without a lot of guidance and you and I touched on how
47:56
it led to over teaching over explaining
48:02
um to the point where we and I and I won't I I won't say we me
48:09
um I felt inadequate or incapable sometimes
48:15
of finding my own solutions to things I remember I remember you finally saying
48:20
that out loud to me at some point in the back seat and feeling very small it's
48:26
like no no no I'm not trying to make you feel incompetent I'm trying to brain
48:31
dump on you before I die and right you know what wisdom I have put at your
48:37
disposal so you can use that to grow and it just you know we screw up our kids
48:42
whether we even with good intentions we screw up our kids we do things wrong and
48:47
I shouldn't say screw up kids and so yeah no I very I very vividly remember a
48:53
a couple of times somebody's from the back seat saying something and me going oh crap that's that was not the effect I
49:01
was looking for at all do you remember how old I was you're pretty young you were much
49:08
younger really sure calling you out as a like a teenager
49:14
how young were we I would say 13 14 15 maybe it would have been it would have
49:19
been I'm thinking middle school or uh early High School yeah
49:27
yeah I remember we would tell you know 12 to 16 or something like that one of
49:32
us myself for brothers would tell you
49:37
something a situation that was going on at school or a problem we were having or whatever
49:43
and you would kind of Dive Right In with like how to fix it or how to do it here's how you handle it like this and
49:51
yeah it was like I I I already had a plan
49:56
I was just kind of I was getting there but you just kind of cut you know either you cut me off or
50:02
like I wasn't I was just venting because I have feelings I didn't want I don't
50:07
need a solution I wasn't asking your opinion I was just needed you to hear my
50:13
feelings I was not good at that one either
50:19
um yeah no that's and that's another good example of I think you guys probably
50:26
said that to me more than once a piece before I finally figured it out
50:32
you know because I would like because I would do that and I know I would launch off in a lecture I would brain dump on
50:39
you and uh apparently you survived it but I'm sure it wasn't much I'm sure the
50:45
next five or ten minutes were not always the most fun well in the effect so the the lecture
50:53
wasn't necessarily the problem I I loved
50:58
learning I loved being taught like I always liked school I always you know as
51:04
an adult I've always pursued experiences and learning new things and
51:10
cultures and you know all kinds of stuff so it wasn't the lecture that bothered
51:15
me it was it was that I that's not what I needed and sometimes
51:23
the lecture instead of helping me problem solve it myself
51:29
you just gave me the answer yeah I was trying to dump the answer on you the effect that that can like the intention
51:35
is wonderful but the effect is that your child then feels like you don't think
51:42
they're capable or smart or whatever
51:47
and they also don't get to practice those problem-solving skills and they
51:53
don't get to like bring you like oh look I solved this problem this is how I handled it and then you get to be like
52:00
oh wow that's awesome or whatever and I'm not like yeah you didn't do that all the time every
52:06
single time but there were definitely times where we'd be like Dad like stop
52:12
telling me the answer like stop telling me what to do fire hose too many answers too many
52:18
answers well and I think if I had it to do over again I would choose to check me
52:24
on this approach uh would be to ask questions would be to do more of a motivational interview or a well what do
52:31
you think about that and and golly how'd that happen and how do you find yourself
52:37
in your situation would be to respond more with questions and let you walk yourself through it
52:43
yeah with a minimum of guidance would be how I would do that now with someone
52:49
yeah not a child not my own child yeah well
52:56
and that's especially if your kid comes to you obviously depending on age Etc comes to
53:04
you and asks for your help it is especially effective to ask
53:10
questions to help guide them into problem solving it themselves if a child
53:15
comes to you with feelings with struggle with this thing is happening and and
53:23
they're you know upset or sad or hurt or whatever it might be
53:29
then just focus on the feelings first
53:34
and because then the kid is once once you say I hear that you're feeling
53:40
really frustrated I hear that you're feeling really hurt by what your friend said to you at school I I hear that oh
53:47
that's so hard I remember that happening to me when I was a kid and it felt like this and blah blah like just empathizing
53:55
and normalizing and validating their feelings that's hard I'm sorry
54:01
and then your child will naturally lead you
54:06
into okay now I want to problem solve this what do I do what do I do with this
54:12
talk about reframing or yeah um hey you're good at this
54:17
thanks so so just to just to wrap up your
54:24
childhood stuff and studied that into parent your parenting and with with the greatest of intentions
54:32
right you there's no malicious intent um there's nothing but love and value
54:40
that you wanted to add to our lives and all of that to say I really wanted you
54:45
to tell that story because I just wanted to kind of paint the
54:51
picture of how over compensating for doing things differently
54:58
to do the things my parents did yeah or I'm going to do it this way
55:05
over compensating can be just as detrimental as under compensating yeah
55:12
and being aware that you want something different but still
55:18
just making it up as you go right doesn't always run into the best
55:23
results you know it's good to do a little learning here I am at 60 something and it's like going yeah that
55:31
you know that didn't that wasn't the best I could have done that a little better and nobody died but
55:38
you know I would do that different now that's uh it's good to have a conversation once in
55:46
a while with somebody and figure that out sooner rather than later well in the the example it is better to
55:55
figure that out sooner rather than later but in the in the example that is wildly
56:02
common and is also the authority
56:08
of authoritarian authoritarian parenting Styles
56:15
um argument against the this parenting Revolution right the
56:20
gentle parenting conscious parenting peaceful parenting relational parenting
56:25
um Revolution is that we're just gonna coddle all of
56:32
these children and they never do anything wrong and everything is always okay and your feelings are always the
56:38
only thing that matter and everything is rainbows and sunshine and that is also an over compensation
56:46
from the authoritarian parenting that is has been very common for anyone born in
56:53
the 80s and before and authoritarian thing too is also kind of
57:00
I don't know not wanting to discuss feelings yeah what you're saying there
57:05
right it reminds me of the you have to deal with your own crap and so one way to not deal with your own crap if you're
57:12
reluctant to deal with your own stuff is is shut it down you know yeah well and
57:17
yeah and shut down any of the children's feelings and yeah yeah I can't if you
57:22
can't deal with your own stuff you're not going to be able to deal with this tiny human running around
57:28
in front of you either because they're going to have all their own stuff but yeah so the overcompensation from from
57:37
authoritarian parent is up here child is down here parenting to to this where
57:44
we're catering to the child constantly and whatever the child wants the child gets and you never say no and you
57:51
validate all their feelings no matter what's going on like well that's you know that whole thing is I'm not I'm not
57:59
averse to being authoritarian sometimes I think it has to do with age you know
58:04
it's like put on your coat we're going to the store I'm in a hurry to a two-year-old is different than to a 22
58:11
year old you know well an authoritative so there's you have to adjust for the
58:18
age so yes adjusting for the age too and like and being authoritative sometimes
58:25
is necessary you are the parent this is not safe
58:31
it's over or whatever you know whatever whatever the situation is yeah right and
58:36
there there's a time and a place and that's what I'm saying is going from authoritarian to passive parenting is
58:43
also not the answer and so with relational parenting and gentle
58:49
parenting and peaceful parenting we're trying to go from this from this authoritative Spectrum over here side of the spectrum
58:57
and the passive just do whatever the child wants child runs the household over here and and
59:05
come in this middle area where we actually have we have connection and and
59:11
healthy emotional responsiveness to our child and
59:17
we are authoritative when we need to be and there are boundaries and there are
59:24
there's structure and we teach and you know all of those things come together
59:30
to make a healthy whole person but if we go back to my pyramid that I described
59:39
in the first episode and we go from meeting physical needs and we skip over
59:46
emotional needs and go straight to rules and boundaries and cognitive learning and hug your grandpa and be a social
59:53
person if we skip these emotional and mental needs on this second layer of our
1:00:00
pyramid then our child will then either operate
1:00:06
out of fear and be constantly in a state of fight or flight and high cortisol levels and all
1:00:13
of that um and Excel anyway but in an extremely
1:00:19
unhealthy state in the nervous system and they will end up with anxiety and depression and all kinds of in
1:00:25
their 20s or they won't be able to function in those
1:00:31
situations and they'll be considered you know they'll be called all kinds of
1:00:37
things or diagnosed with all kinds of things or they'll need special help with all kinds of things and so we can't skip
1:00:43
we cannot skip this emotional mental health needs um and that's where relational parenting
1:00:50
comes in and we we focus on that we focus on meeting those needs and then
1:00:56
establishing the structure and the boundaries and the the um
1:01:02
you know the respect for I don't even want to say respect for
1:01:09
authority um well respect for others respect foreign
1:01:18
if you want respect you need to treat others with respect you have no right to expect anything from other people that
1:01:26
you're not willing to do yourself you know that's leadership That's the basis of all kinds of stuff
1:01:32
structure requires a why you know I don't know it's time for bed why it's uh
1:01:38
don't run out in the street why um you know which is more rational and
1:01:43
you have to if you end if you end up with disconnect between the emotional and the structure side of things then
1:01:51
that's that's where you get confusion you end up with kids that have so much going on in their head busy you know
1:01:57
becomes depression paralysis can't make decisions don't function as well you
1:02:03
know if things are not sort of kind of resolved you know the degree to which the the internal Machinery mental
1:02:11
Machinery Works smoothly kind of has a has a determining effect on how well you
1:02:17
function in society and deal with resilience and then deal with uh life
1:02:23
you know because it's varied yeah well in the in that you mentioned
1:02:28
that understanding so here's the boundary
1:02:34
and here's why here's why because if you
1:02:39
just make a rule or you just set a boundary or you just whatever and tell
1:02:46
your kid they can't do something or they have to do something or this that or the other they're going they are not going
1:02:53
to care about what that rule is or why it's
1:02:58
there and they're not going to respect it at the level you want them to until
1:03:03
you fully teach them why we do things and in really young kids
1:03:10
you're gonna have to teach them 600 times before it clicks for a while it's
1:03:15
because I said so no but that's but that's a horrible reason yes it's not because I said so
1:03:22
that's never a reason no matter what age they are not even for one-year-olds
1:03:27
two-year-olds yeah
1:03:33
[Music] we oversimplify the way we explain
1:03:38
things to kids and we do not need to and it actually inhibits their ability to understand so when you don't stay down
1:03:46
stop dumbing things down even for a two-year-old I'm telling you they get it
1:03:52
and they learn language that you teach them so if you teach them you know to say bum instead of butt or you teach
1:04:00
them to call something whatever like I don't even know I don't even have an example right now but if
1:04:07
you say to your two-year-old all right it's bedtime why I don't want to go to bed I'm not tired uh
1:04:13
okay well Let's either we could do an exercise with them where we feel into
1:04:19
our bodies and see if we're actually tired or why when they say why do I have
1:04:25
to go to bed you say well everybody goes to bed we all have to sleep as human beings if
1:04:31
you don't sleep you're not going to say this to your children but if you don't sleep you die and so
1:04:38
you're go you're going to explain for a two-year-old you're gonna die if you don't they don't know what dying is you
1:04:44
can't explain it to them they cannot conceptualize it and so you'll just confuse them further please don't watch
1:04:50
your four-year-olds watch this but you you explain that to them not well if you
1:04:58
don't sleep you're going to be tired your kid cannot also conceptualize what being tired in the future is too far
1:05:04
away they don't get it yeah okay so
1:05:09
you can even ask questions so I remember with one of my families one of my nanny
1:05:15
families there was a child who didn't want to go to bed ever at bedtime and they would always say why do I have to
1:05:21
go to bed I'm not tired I'm not tired well you know what's really important is
1:05:26
that we go to bed before we actually feel tired because what happens when you
1:05:33
feel tired they go and if you've had this conversation before they might be able
1:05:38
to answer if you have never had this conversation before you still ask that question and when they go I got a
1:05:44
reminder yeah I don't know then you tell them what you witness when they get really tired you say well I've I've
1:05:51
noticed when you get really tired you start to rub your eyes a lot and you
1:05:57
start to kind of throw your body around the room and sometimes you get hurt when
1:06:02
you do that and if you don't do that I've noticed that you cry a lot and you
1:06:08
get really sad when you're getting happy yeah and they go oh and whether they remember
1:06:15
it or not they're gonna they're gonna like kind of like take that in and think about it and if this is like the 50th
1:06:22
time you've had this conversation with them then they're gonna go oh yeah yeah I better go to bed or they're gonna
1:06:28
argue with you a little bit more who knows but the point is like you can explain things to a toddler you can
1:06:38
explain things even to a six-month-old baby who doesn't want their diaper
1:06:43
changed I verbally explain to them what I'm doing and why I'm doing it and
1:06:49
why it needs to happen like I'm so sorry babe I know this is so hard you don't like laying on your back or you don't
1:06:56
feel good today and getting your diaper changed is so hard and I empathize with
1:07:01
that child even though they are not capable of verbalizing back to me that six-month-old can feel what I'm saying
1:07:09
and they are starting to understand it yeah they do they're starting to
1:07:14
understand language and they can hear my tone and they can feel the vibration of
1:07:21
the words that I'm saying and even if they don't stop crying or they continue to be upset and mad that you're changing
1:07:28
their diaper you're at least not causing emotional harm and disconnect
1:07:35
to that baby yeah you still have to do you still have to change the poopy diaper because otherwise they could get
1:07:42
an infection or whatever sorry yeah it's gonna happen but you are you are maintaining the relationship and the
1:07:49
connection to them and their experience and their feelings so that they feel
1:07:54
safe and heard and they can still be upset but they feel safe
1:08:00
yeah so it can happen at six months old at five years old at 18 years old but we
1:08:08
need to be explaining the why and the real why not mixed signals not yeah not
1:08:16
not dumb made up reasons or yeah just laid out yeah I like that I like that as a
1:08:23
teaching uh thing back to teaching and and uh
1:08:29
now I'm having trouble with words authenticity and stuff you know getting getting the real message across
1:08:36
making making rules and either not explaining them
1:08:43
and just saying because I said so or that's the way it is your child is going to get a very skewed
1:08:50
inaccurate way of how the world works and they're going to be very lost when they go out into that world and there
1:08:57
are no rules and there's no like there are there are very few rules and they
1:09:04
are going to be lost without reasons and actual like meaningful structure
1:09:11
um that they can then go recreate in their own lives and there are there are you're also giving them a skill there
1:09:19
are more and less useful approaches to dealing with other people as you get older and just going into a
1:09:27
room full of people and saying here's what we're going to do and without with making no pretense of hey I'm the boss
1:09:35
and this is just going to happen and get out of here is oftentimes less effective
1:09:40
than angling a little bit and explaining and you know letting people when people
1:09:46
feel bought in I guess is the word that's popping into my head if you can get a kid to buy into the idea of it
1:09:54
sounds kind of salient raising children as it comes out of my mouth but getting to buy into the
1:10:01
decision to go to bed wow then you know Chuck that problem off pretty much
1:10:09
forever and move on you know that's uh onto the on to the next real problem
1:10:15
yeah that would be great that'd be a great skill to teach a kid and then they see it and then next thing you know when
1:10:22
they're 50 they're using it themselves you know because it's part of their DNA practically well it's true I remember
1:10:29
I've worked at so you know multiple companies and the companies I stayed at were the ones that
1:10:35
were transparent and honest and told us why things were happening the way they were or what you know new rules or
1:10:43
whatever were being put into place and the places who were just who just treated us like foot soldiers and told
1:10:49
us what to do and if we didn't do it on command then we were reprimanded like
1:10:54
replaceable Parts it was like all right Deuces I'm out like you don't get to treat me like this or
1:11:00
I'm not this is miserable I don't want to come to work so there's a whole there's a whole other
1:11:06
movement now in the workforce metaphor in different companies of like treating
1:11:12
people like people like these same Concepts these same like being in relationship with your employees a
1:11:20
relationship yeah not just a transaction but like people spend
1:11:27
more of their lives at work than they do in their own homes sometimes as a rule
1:11:33
yeah so you have to make it a place that people want to go like it's simple well you get more you
1:11:41
get more work you get more cooperation you know I hate to see people that come to a meeting they bring a laptop and
1:11:47
they crack a laptop and they're not paying any attention to what's going on in the meeting they're not engaged you
1:11:53
know and you get more in you know if people are engaged whether it's a two-year-old going to bed or a bunch of
1:12:01
people at work you know it's more productive more fun for everybody yeah you know less less friction less
1:12:08
excitement less drama yeah it's a good thing usually
1:12:14
all right I think once again we have veered off topic enough for one day
1:12:21
we uh we're gonna Circle back in and close this down to
1:12:29
um how to heal generational trauma we cannot we cannot just
1:12:38
move forward and execute we
1:12:43
there is if there is generational trauma or generational Cycles or pain and
1:12:49
wounding from your own childhood that has not been addressed yet the stepping forward into the kind of parent you want
1:12:56
to be or the changes that you want to make is going to be so much more effective and so much easier if you
1:13:03
do that healing inside of yourself and you have to acknowledge that the hurt
1:13:09
happened you have to feel those terrible feelings and grieve what happened to you
1:13:17
in childhood and then move into forgiveness acceptance or understanding
1:13:24
um and then and then once you have done that you become capable of taking radical
1:13:32
accountability of your own choices and life and what you want to
1:13:40
make of it and what kind of parent you want to be and that gives you all of your power back
1:13:46
yeah and you get you can you can literally do anything you want with that power so yeah making choices yeah
1:13:53
yeah all right yeah good deal good stuff you bet thank
1:13:59
you sweetie I learned a thing or two tonight oh good
1:14:04
all right bye everybody if someone came to mind while you were listening to this
1:14:10
episode or you are wishing you had a friend to digest it with I would be so
1:14:15
honored if you shared this link from this episode with them I myself have always benefited from
1:14:21
community and sharing and I truly believe that it takes a village to raise
1:14:27
a child our society has become so independent from one another and parenting these
1:14:34
days is often a lonely Journey but it doesn't have to be that way
1:14:40
that's why I'm here if you have been seeking a more intentional approach to
1:14:45
Parenting but you aren't sure where to start I would love to hear from you you
1:14:51
can find me and all of my offerings at www.jennyb.com
1:14:57
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1:15:03
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1:15:08
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1:15:38
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1:15:46
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